Yep I want more companies to offer the solar roofing shingles and/or solar roofing materials like shingles and terracotta style tiles. That way the price goes down.
Good information but you stopped short: what are the detailed costs of the products and the final cost with installation? Can they feed power back to the grid? How would that work? What safety features are integrated into these systems ?
I think you could award an additional point to the PowerCell for efficiency. As you mentioned the Power Wall is a A/C coupled battery. The PowerCell is not. What that means; the inverter does not have to convert DC to AC to charge the battery. That means faster charging times using less power. That can be crucial in a cloudy environment or during a hurricane or storm front. The DC to AC conversion only happens when you draw from the battery.
What about if you have microinverters, whereby the power coming off the roof is already AC? How would that affect these two systems? How could this affect the decision making process? Thx
You do such a fantastic job at the presentation aspect that your product knowledge is unmatched! Your professional demeanor lends so much integrity to your overall production value! Outstanding effort!!
@@bobhughes2558 What are the mistakes? How is he "bashing" Tesla by saying they are the best choice for the average homeowner? The Generac system is the size most homeowners need and can be expanded by the homeowner.
The one thing you didn’t mention-in none of your videos is the app monitoring of your solar and battery levels. Also when an upcoming storm is coming the powerwall preps the battery for that possible weather problem. That’s the ultimate X Factor worth 2 points on its own.
Thanks for the informative video! It seems like the Generac system has easily replaceable batteries which is a big positive point for me. Batteries begin to degrade from the day they are produced so it is not a matter of if you will have to replace the batteries, it is just a matter of when. Can you replace the batteries in a Powerwall, and how does that compare with battery replacement on a Generac cabinet? This difference in serviceability may offset the cost issue because if you have to replace the entire Powerwall when the batteries fail, in the long run the Generac system may be a better value because it can be easily brought back to 100% for much less cost than a new unit. I feel that repair is often overlooked as an eco friendly option, if you can keep equipment working longer it reduces overall consumption.
Thanks for another great video! I’m a Tesla car owner and love it. However, I’m now quite dissatisfied with Tesla’s new business plan where you can’t just add a Powerwall to your existing system, or in my case a new DIY system I’m designing for my new FL home. I was in a chat session with Tesla and was told I would have to have Tesla come out and install a minimum of 10 panels for them to put in a Powerwall for me. Deal breaker for sure! As I was without power for 22 days after hurricane Michael, I need a system that can handle a whole home backup (A/C unit and well pump included), which is driving me toward the Generac PowerCell for short 1 to 2 day outages and a generator to recharge the batteries in case of prolonged overcast weather or storm damage to the solar system. As I’m still in the design phase and this is a DIY project, I was leaning toward micro-inverters, but with the Generac system, it appears I’d need to go with DC optimizers, correct? I’ll contact Sola Surge to get some additional info and possibly quotes for portions of the project I might need installer help with. Thanks again, Tim
Hi Tim and thanks for writing in. We can certainly help with getting you Generac PWRCell for whole-house backup in FL. That's our most popular option for homeowners in your state.
I currently power all of my critical systems in my rural home with a 7.5kw gas generator when the power's out. This includes well pump, boiler, water heaters, fridge, two 9 cu ft freezers, along with many non-critical items like internet, tv, and lights. The generac pwrcell 9kw should be more than enough for most homes. I'd say buying the 18kw of power would enable you to live completely off the grid when mixed with solar panels.
With the price of the Powercell, you can buy 2 Tesla Powerwalls... and have 28 kwh capacity and 10k continuous watt draw plus 60 amp capacity to start heavy loads..
Thanks for sharing! Your first line of service should be the local installation company, not Generac. The local installer should have parts in stock and be able to get you back up and running more quickly.
@@SolarSurge I am not as knowledgeable as you and thus not arguing with you. And I am not so much talking about PWRCell; it is the whole house backup generator that many ppl are having problem with. I am in this rabbit hole of backup power for the house in case of storm and I am looking at all options: powerwall, whole house backup generator, portable generator, etc... Though I have a set of solar panels on the roof and so powerwall system makes more sense. But since many out there pooping on Generac when it comes to customer service (with regard to their generators) it makes me not wanting to look at Generac at all.
@@anthonynguyen9779 I'm an electrician that installs off grid systems and lives off grid. When you see a Generac, scream like a little girl and run away. Avoid Generac like the plague. Trust me on this.
One other major advantage to Generac its also rated for outdoor. The one negative is the inverter requires a hard wired ethernet connection. Could be tricky if you put it outside and have to run cable a long distance
Thanks for the presentation. The Generac system is more flexible for users with future needs, such as adding a hybrid of EV. In northern CA, i have a quote for $11,000 to install a four module, 12kwh panel. Adding 3kwh modules in the future would cost approximately $2500 each. And users can add Generac panels - not sure how many. If I buy what I can use now (i.e. 3-4 3kwh modules), then I receive the federal tax credit for most of the battery cost and adding additional battery capacity (2-3 more modules) in the future is less impactful on the wallet vs having to purchase a whole new Tesla panel (which might not be available given the current 'no solo buy" policy). Remember that the batteries only dispense 90% of capacity.
Generac also has their PWRGenerator that can work along side the solar & battery using LP or Natural Gas to supplement in cases where the batteries and solar don't produce enough (so, even more security during a power outage).
Interesting. In operation, it would essentially operate just like batteries during a backup- the Inverter would decouple from the AC Power and rely on the generator & solar (just like a battery backup system would during an outage). I wonder what the issue would be for them? I mean, they allow regular backup generators right?
Great explanations as always, I do believe you should include the life expectancy given the usaable DOD, Operating temps etc, so that the audience also has such information and the fact of replacing batteries every 5-7 years does not come as surprise!
I hadn’t considered that. If my Powerwall needs replacement every 5-7years that would fall under the warranty so hopefully it happens in that timeframe:)
One thing to keep in mind is that if you have two Powerwalls, you double the amount of maximum output power that the system is capable of outputting. So with two powerwalls, you can get 10 kW continuous and 14 kW peak power out of the system.
@@Natedoc808 Except we never found out how a fully upgraded Generac system compares price-wise. He only said a non-upgraded one costs 20% more than Tesla
@@topeka088 so price the Tesla at add 1/5 the cost. Or call generac and find out the cost of additional battery unit. The cost of the generac system is available on their website including the additional battery units to fill out the cabinet
or at a lower load, a near doubling of battery life, and with increased load potential this should be enough to make a household have an energy surplus, making it truly off grid capable. And if the rules are right where you live, you can get electric company credits instead of bills.
@@Natedoc808 Not really. 2 Tesla powerwall's have 26 kWH capacity for the price of $18,500 (2 of them), compared to $18,000 for one 9 kWH capacity Generac power cell battery.
Your'e giving the generic Powerwall an extra plus for the ability to put more baterie's into it. But if you put more batteries in the system you also can add an other Powerwall to the Tesla system. Up to 7.
Yes, good points here. However, I don't think the average system owner could add on a Powerwall on their own. You need 3 guys just to set the unit in place and it's a more complex wiring.
@@SolarSurge Where as it is true that the average owner cannot on their own add a powerwall and that adds to cost for later installation however, you should probably have been a bit more elaborate on the cost side. The cost of the product /KWH is not slightly less for the powerwall. Its almost half the cost for the product alone. In my point of view that shows a huge bias towards generac. The base generac model giving only 9KWH is 2500$ more expensive for the unit alone which is around 33% more.
Plus there is likely to be a lot of finger pointing between Panasonic and Generac in case of faults. Not even to mention if you dyi extra batteries into it
@@eavdmeer Generac covers the battery warranty regardless of the cell manufacture. The great part is the warranty is 10yrs or an energy through put rating which is very clear cut.
You did a great job reviewing the 2 companies. I do the TSLA over all has more to offer with its app. I'm bias I own stock in TSLA and have a friend that spend a fortune on Generic
This winter in Texas I was 42 hours w/o power and virtually no sun for solar. 3.5kW of portable heaters was barely enough to keep my house from freezing and maxed out my generator. In many climates keeping at least part of a home at a safe temperature is critical. It is important to consider that in your power budget. Power seldom fails on a nice Spring day.
That also has to do with the thermal efficiency of your home. I am in central TX and we didn't have to run any extra heaters. While we didn't have an abundance of solar during that time, we had enough to keep most of our necessary units running. We couldn't keep our heat pump running, but again due to the newness of our home it stayed within living parameters. Our biggest issue during the storm was the water problems. Even then we were ok thanks to our casual prepping nature.
@@DarthPoyner In my older home we have improved our windows and insulation but there are limits to what is practical. What I most lacked was battery storage. One day's mild weather capacity is simply not enough to ensure security. Multi-day outages have happened before and will likely happen again. We had an ERCOT warning just last week. Large storage will even allow more effective use of generators in times of crisis and better make use of the grid when it is available. FWIW, we were the only house on out block that remained occupied throughout the event. It reached 0F at our house and we were w/o power for 42 hours. No pipes froze and we remained reasonably comfortable in adventure mode. Houses in the D/FW area simply were not built for that weather and people here don't prepare, but we do.
Much of how to deal with winter cold depends on whether or not local LPG- or central NG is available. In our rural area almost everyone has a 250gallon tank of propane on their property. Lower elevations closer to towns have Natural Gas as an option. During wintertime in the mountain area we live, losing grid power is a given.
@@kamakaziozzie3038 Yes, we have a family place in the mountains. A Sears kit house from early last century built over a stone basement, expanded and updated over generations, it can remain comfortable without power. The majority of American homes are nowhere near as self-reliant.
What I would like to see when doing comparisons with price would be to choose a minimum specification and price the minimum system with those specs. For example if you decide you need 20kwh and 7kw to power your test home. You'd need 2 powerwall 2's or a generac system with maybe 2 cabinets if that's even possible? That way you can compare all your batteries the same.
Good review, I will be forwarding on. I just wanted to mention that the Tesla Powerwalls can stack up to 6 units. At least that is what it says in the quote I just did. Again. You helped bring to light good points for both. Helped me decide to go with Tesla. Although the case you made for the Generac was compelling.
Great point! I'll be doing a follow up video about Generac soon. They have a whole set of load management features that allows you to backup the entire house using a much smaller battery than Tesla.
Lots of people reporting the Islanding Overload fault with the PWRCELL. In places were voltage fluctuations is common, the PWRCELL enters into fault mode and shutdown instead of interpreting the fluctuations as a grid failure to activate battery backup.
You need to give cost numbers even if it was at time of recording. The generac would need to be presented with two cost numbers because of the initial base cost and the expansion cost.
For those watching, they should know that the battery banks shown on the outside of buildings, are often rendered unuseable in the cold weather of northern climates, where the batteries would need to be inside the home, not outside, not in the garage.
This is moderately misleading. You can add multiple power walls to increase both capacity and continuous draw. I have 3 power walls which gives me 40 kWh and 15 kW continuous. The price has gone up since I purchased and government incentives have gone down, but my total installed cost was 18k. Last, the specs you used for the powerwall are out of date. They upgraded them in November 2020 to output 9.6 kW continuous.
Super helpful and useful. I live in Dallas, and although I did not lose power during Icepocalypse 2021, I am extremely paranoid about ERCOT's complete inability to ensure Electricty Reliablity, I have been hemming and hawing about getting a battery backup for my existing (SolarCity, now Tesla) rooftop solar panels. I *think* Tesla is refusing to install PowerWalls for anyone other than Tesla customers, but I'm not sure, and even if they are, I'm not sure if they're refusing to install them for existing customers (versus only installing them on new systems). However, living in Dallas...central AC is not a luxury, it's an absolute REQUIREMENT, so that additional surge power is a necessity. I can go without a lot of stuff, or work around a lot of things, but a temperature at which I'm not going to die is not one of them. [My AC went out several years ago, and it was literally cooler in the garage than it was in the house. I ended up filling the tub with what passes for cold water in Texas (sometimes in summer the "cold' water is actually higher temperature than the 'hot' water...) and sitting in the tub for the several hours until it got repaired. It was horrible. And I don't have a pool.] Thank you for the information!
Thanks for mentioning this. I've been having a hard time getting a straight answer on this capability. It appears that Generac now supports this feature, but you would have to add on an extra component, the PWRcell Automatic Transfer Switch.
@@ABC-wz2db Yep. I just heard about this. It's so important to have that generator re-charge capability when running off-the-grid. I've had a few clients where they are 100% off-grid full time and they use the generator 500+ hours per year, especially during the winter season.
The generac system can run the house of solar power (in case of grid loss) and will only tap into the battery if the PV power no longer is able to provide the energy draw from the loads. I would have given the pwrcell one more x-factor point for that. The inverter has 4 DC bus'es to hookup, so you can actually have 3 battery cabinets hooked up and the 4th for PV input (which would be underrated compared to storage size). I think a balanced system would have 2 battery cabinets & 2 PV strings with optimizers. Not the cheapest solution, but pretty flexible imo
I have a general question. At night when the solar panels are no longer producing power, does the battery kick in or do you have to draw power from the grid. A/C is my biggest concern. I live in the desert. Thank you.
If someone has no solar panels and were to install a solar+battery system from scratch - how would the prices of the 2 products compare (including installation etc)? Are both the products compatible with all types of homes?
Researching solar plus battery to do this year. Thanks for the info! Planning one solar on roof plus one battery just to run refrigerator and other critical components during outage.
Don’t like Tesla but I’m an actual PWR Cell system has been junk, never runs more than six months without failure. Has failed multiple times during power cuts. It has safety issues with the snap RS fiasco and now my system is down as often as up and Generac only gives me a run around. MY SYSTEM IS ONLY THREE YEARS OLD. This is why Generac has four class action lawsuits pending.
I like the expandability of the Generac. Since Tesla stopped selling power walls to consumers who didn’t purchase solar from them it’s a no brainer for me. Generac would be the choice.
You can still get Tesla Powerwall's through Tesla-certified dealers like us. However, in many cases, Generac PWRCell is a better option because of its Intelligent Load Management.
Very well done presentation thank you. I live off grid in Alaska and have several months with very low light levels for solar panels. You wouldn't happen to have a series on setting up a complete off grid system with generator, AGS, efficient use of generator to recharge batteries with minimizing power loss, as well as any possible turn key systems out there would you?
Thanks for the note. I will do a future video on this subject. The Outback Radian is the system that would provide all of the capabilities you just mentioned and that's why I use Radian on my home here. th-cam.com/video/5CXxOHKR9jc/w-d-xo.html
Good presentation. I think one X-Factor not considered with the Powerwall is the integration with the Tesla Eco-System. If you have a Tesla vehicle, you have one App to control both the car and PW. With a Tesla High-Powerwall wall-charger you have additional integration. For example you can set the unit not to charge your Tesla car during a power outage. For example if you lose power during the middle of the night when you normally charge your car, you wouldn't wake-up to a possibly drained battery system because the system charged your car while the power was out.
Very good points here. You would definitely not want to waste precious battery storage on charging you EV. However, I envision in the future we will be able to use our EV batteries to interface with the solar/inverter for backup power.
You should do another comparison with PowerWall 2 updated firmware. I have 2 Powerwalls and I'm very happy. I also have 2 AC units and can run them at the same time.
Wait….. Telsa PWRwall has a capacity of 13.5kwh…. The PWRcell can be anywhere from 6kwh all the way up to 36kwhs. A quick google search confirmed this form me. Please explain your statements.
3:20 "...for the home's critical systems, so long as you're not doing anything heavy, like central air conditioning..." I don't know where you live, but where I live, air conditioning is not a luxury, but a life-critical necessity for about half the year, and power outages can occur at any time of the year.
Great Overview! I'm wondering about upgradability for Tesla Powerwall 2.. Our home has 2 units with ≈6.5kWh solar. System works great, but we're thinking of adding electric car next year.
Can I have one of these on my house without having a solar panel system? I’m just looking to have some stored power for storm caused power outages? I’m hoping to just charge it from the grid and use it if the grid goes out
I read recently that Tesla isn't selling the Powerwall to you unless you buy solar from them. This could be temporary because of of the chip shortage...or maybe not.
Of course currently I'm told, you’re not able to purchase the Tesla Powerwall individually; it must be combined with a Tesla solar system installation. Guess that's swell for those that have an extra 40 or 50K stuck somewhere.
I believe that you cannot add a Tesla Powerwall to and existing solar system, you must buy the solar panels and in order to get the powerwall, it would be great to update this video, maybe you have already, thank you for the information.
I got a quote for the tesla one Total cost would be 20,000 installation included when done paying it off on a 25 year loan total would be 28,000 this is through the solar company i have does this sound legit i just canceled doing cause paying 25 years for something that last 10 just didn't seem right
The Generac PWRcell actually manages your PV and charges batteries in addition to powering AC loads without compromising the load AC capacity. You can place up to 15kw of PV on one 7kw Generac inverter in addition to having battery capacity on the same system. Way more functionality than a tesla ac coupled powerwall. Generac allows PV to be DC coupled and Powerwall cant do PV management directly and is AC coupled with lower capacity.
Look into Sol-Ark 12k inverters. I have one running in Pittsburgh, Pa. Not the best for solar. 22Kwhr AGM battery PC-320, 10.7Kw Solar array. Total critical load for 3 days, with out sunlight. If you are not afraid to DIY, then its the best path.
Powerwall is 48v with a bidirectional buck inverter inside to bring the voltage to 400vdc wish someone would sell the buck inverter so you can uses any 48v battery bank. Bet it is the same with Solaredge battery too.
One of the advantages to the power wall you missed his ability in many locations to sell power back to the grid. That can be very helpful for offsetting the cost of the unit.
@@CrossWindsPat Yes. But Nathan said it was an advantage to the power wall and I was pointing out the Generac can do that as well, so, not an advantage. And yes, any battery should be able to do that.
I like genarac they make quality an reliability of there products my father. Has there gas genarac generator in country for 15 years an never failed him telsa is good an hopefully improves I get nervous about fire with telsa batteries
@@SolarSurge yes but I haven't seen genarac start any fires were I have seen telsa batteries set cars house an r.v. on fire so I just don't trust it yet I can't wait to see them incorporate telsa roof tile. An batteries in nose cap of r.v.s it will be awesome
I currently have solar, I think the Tesla option will work for me. My power panel is on the outside of my home. Will the installation be connected to current solar system?
Everyone wins with competition.
Yep I want more companies to offer the solar roofing shingles and/or solar roofing materials like shingles and terracotta style tiles. That way the price goes down.
Best video I have seen to explain all the pros and cons. Good to know info for rural and semi-rural homes.
Glad it was helpful!
Good information but you stopped short: what are the detailed costs of the products and the final cost with installation? Can they feed power back to the grid? How would that work? What safety features are integrated into these systems ?
I think you could award an additional point to the PowerCell for efficiency. As you mentioned the Power Wall is a A/C coupled battery. The PowerCell is not. What that means; the inverter does not have to convert DC to AC to charge the battery. That means faster charging times using less power. That can be crucial in a cloudy environment or during a hurricane or storm front. The DC to AC conversion only happens when you draw from the battery.
What about if you have microinverters, whereby the power coming off the roof is already AC? How would that affect these two systems? How could this affect the decision making process? Thx
@@hansschweikert9153 With the Generac you use the Generac Inverter so you can't use plain micro-inverters. So that's a non-issue.
Thank you for the comparison. I went with the Generac Pwrcell system. Overall, been very pleased.
You do such a fantastic job at the presentation aspect that your product knowledge is unmatched! Your professional demeanor lends so much integrity to your overall production value! Outstanding effort!!
Wow, thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video.
Right ON...!;!
@@SolarSurge man are you being paid by somebody to bash the Tesla -- this is the 3rd video now and man you mislead the facts. WHY?
@@bobhughes2558 What are the mistakes? How is he "bashing" Tesla by saying they are the best choice for the average homeowner? The Generac system is the size most homeowners need and can be expanded by the homeowner.
The one thing you didn’t mention-in none of your videos is the app monitoring of your solar and battery levels. Also when an upcoming storm is coming the powerwall preps the battery for that possible weather problem. That’s the ultimate X Factor worth 2 points on its own.
Good points about the Tesla app. Tesla's app is superior to Generac, especially for Tesla vehicle owners.
Thanks for that 411!
@@SolarSurge Good job. Would like to have heard you talk about the two apps side by side
What about it being remotely hacked. Isn't that a concern? It happened to several utility companies recently so you know it could happen to this
Why would weather affect storage performance?
Thanks for the informative video! It seems like the Generac system has easily replaceable batteries which is a big positive point for me. Batteries begin to degrade from the day they are produced so it is not a matter of if you will have to replace the batteries, it is just a matter of when.
Can you replace the batteries in a Powerwall, and how does that compare with battery replacement on a Generac cabinet? This difference in serviceability may offset the cost issue because if you have to replace the entire Powerwall when the batteries fail, in the long run the Generac system may be a better value because it can be easily brought back to 100% for much less cost than a new unit. I feel that repair is often overlooked as an eco friendly option, if you can keep equipment working longer it reduces overall consumption.
Professional presentation, very informative. Looking forward to deeper-dive comparisons.
Great food for thought! Looks like photo finish for Tesla, Generac (and Enphase). Looking forward to comparison of all 3. THX!
Thanks for another great video! I’m a Tesla car owner and love it. However, I’m now quite dissatisfied with Tesla’s new business plan where you can’t just add a Powerwall to your existing system, or in my case a new DIY system I’m designing for my new FL home. I was in a chat session with Tesla and was told I would have to have Tesla come out and install a minimum of 10 panels for them to put in a Powerwall for me. Deal breaker for sure!
As I was without power for 22 days after hurricane Michael, I need a system that can handle a whole home backup (A/C unit and well pump included), which is driving me toward the Generac PowerCell for short 1 to 2 day outages and a generator to recharge the batteries in case of prolonged overcast weather or storm damage to the solar system.
As I’m still in the design phase and this is a DIY project, I was leaning toward micro-inverters, but with the Generac system, it appears I’d need to go with DC optimizers, correct?
I’ll contact Sola Surge to get some additional info and possibly quotes for portions of the project I might need installer help with.
Thanks again, Tim
Hi Tim and thanks for writing in. We can certainly help with getting you Generac PWRCell for whole-house backup in FL. That's our most popular option for homeowners in your state.
I currently power all of my critical systems in my rural home with a 7.5kw gas generator when the power's out. This includes well pump, boiler, water heaters, fridge, two 9 cu ft freezers, along with many non-critical items like internet, tv, and lights. The generac pwrcell 9kw should be more than enough for most homes. I'd say buying the 18kw of power would enable you to live completely off the grid when mixed with solar panels.
I'm just moved into a home with solar and doing some initial research on battery backup. Thanks for this informative video.
Glad it was helpful!
This review helped me decide on getting the Tesla power wall. Thanks!
Glad I could help!
The best information I have found anywhere! Thank you for converting the energy language to real world use!
With the price of the Powercell, you can buy 2 Tesla Powerwalls... and have 28 kwh capacity and 10k continuous watt draw plus 60 amp capacity to start heavy loads..
Great point!
Generac offers load management so you don’t need that many batteries and can back up to 50amps with one battery.
@@craigsurman4281 Generac also offers the worst quality imaginable and a nightmare future of breakdowns and excuses to not honor the warranty.
How much do these cost?
@@michael931 You can add battery backup for as little as $10k depending on location. Please visit solarsurge.net and "Request a Quote"
Great comparison! I think I'd personally go for the Tesla Powerwalls but it's nice to know that there's an alternative.
Good choice! Powerwall is the better choice for most homeowners.
I think you need to explore the single vs. dual inverter aspect of the batteries as well.
This is very informative. Thanks. There is one thing I would like to add: customer service. Generac has gotten very negative review on this regard.
Thanks for sharing! Your first line of service should be the local installation company, not Generac. The local installer should have parts in stock and be able to get you back up and running more quickly.
@@SolarSurge I am not as knowledgeable as you and thus not arguing with you. And I am not so much talking about PWRCell; it is the whole house backup generator that many ppl are having problem with. I am in this rabbit hole of backup power for the house in case of storm and I am looking at all options: powerwall, whole house backup generator, portable generator, etc... Though I have a set of solar panels on the roof and so powerwall system makes more sense. But since many out there pooping on Generac when it comes to customer service (with regard to their generators) it makes me not wanting to look at Generac at all.
@@anthonynguyen9779 I'm an electrician that installs off grid systems and lives off grid.
When you see a Generac, scream like a little girl and run away.
Avoid Generac like the plague.
Trust me on this.
@@davemiller6055 yeah, I think so too. Will have to see how high can my voice get tho? :)
One other major advantage to Generac its also rated for outdoor. The one negative is the inverter requires a hard wired ethernet connection. Could be tricky if you put it outside and have to run cable a long distance
Thanks for the presentation. The Generac system is more flexible for users with future needs, such as adding a hybrid of EV. In northern CA, i have a quote for $11,000 to install a four module, 12kwh panel. Adding 3kwh modules in the future would cost approximately $2500 each. And users can add Generac panels - not sure how many. If I buy what I can use now (i.e. 3-4 3kwh modules), then I receive the federal tax credit for most of the battery cost and adding additional battery capacity (2-3 more modules) in the future is less impactful on the wallet vs having to purchase a whole new Tesla panel (which might not be available given the current 'no solo buy" policy). Remember that the batteries only dispense 90% of capacity.
Generac also has their PWRGenerator that can work along side the solar & battery using LP or Natural Gas to supplement in cases where the batteries and solar don't produce enough (so, even more security during a power outage).
Interesting. In operation, it would essentially operate just like batteries during a backup- the Inverter would decouple from the AC Power and rely on the generator & solar (just like a battery backup system would during an outage). I wonder what the issue would be for them? I mean, they allow regular backup generators right?
Great explanations as always, I do believe you should include the life expectancy given the usaable DOD, Operating temps etc, so that the audience also has such information and the fact of replacing batteries every 5-7 years does not come as surprise!
I hadn’t considered that.
If my Powerwall needs replacement every 5-7years that would fall under the warranty so hopefully it happens in that timeframe:)
One thing to keep in mind is that if you have two Powerwalls, you double the amount of maximum output power that the system is capable of outputting. So with two powerwalls, you can get 10 kW continuous and 14 kW peak power out of the system.
Which is roughly equal to the 1 generac system, so the Tesla would need to be half the cost to equal comparable capacity.
@@Natedoc808 Except we never found out how a fully upgraded Generac system compares price-wise. He only said a non-upgraded one costs 20% more than Tesla
@@topeka088 so price the Tesla at add 1/5 the cost. Or call generac and find out the cost of additional battery unit. The cost of the generac system is available on their website including the additional battery units to fill out the cabinet
or at a lower load, a near doubling of battery life, and with increased load potential this should be enough to make a household have an energy surplus, making it truly off grid capable. And if the rules are right where you live, you can get electric company credits instead of bills.
@@Natedoc808 Not really. 2 Tesla powerwall's have 26 kWH capacity for the price of $18,500 (2 of them), compared to $18,000 for one 9 kWH capacity Generac power cell battery.
Your'e giving the generic Powerwall an extra plus for the ability to put more baterie's into it. But if you put more batteries in the system you also can add an other Powerwall to the Tesla system. Up to 7.
Yes, good points here. However, I don't think the average system owner could add on a Powerwall on their own. You need 3 guys just to set the unit in place and it's a more complex wiring.
@@SolarSurge Where as it is true that the average owner cannot on their own add a powerwall and that adds to cost for later installation however, you should probably have been a bit more elaborate on the cost side. The cost of the product /KWH is not slightly less for the powerwall. Its almost half the cost for the product alone. In my point of view that shows a huge bias towards generac. The base generac model giving only 9KWH is 2500$ more expensive for the unit alone which is around 33% more.
@@jacobwolfgang7571 I agree with you on the cost side.
Plus there is likely to be a lot of finger pointing between Panasonic and Generac in case of faults. Not even to mention if you dyi extra batteries into it
@@eavdmeer Generac covers the battery warranty regardless of the cell manufacture. The great part is the warranty is 10yrs or an energy through put rating which is very clear cut.
Thanks for a very interesting comparison
You did a great job reviewing the 2 companies. I do the TSLA over all has more to offer with its app. I'm bias I own stock in TSLA and have a friend that spend a fortune on Generic
Another excellent presentation, thank you for sharing
This winter in Texas I was 42 hours w/o power and virtually no sun for solar. 3.5kW of portable heaters was barely enough to keep my house from freezing and maxed out my generator. In many climates keeping at least part of a home at a safe temperature is critical. It is important to consider that in your power budget. Power seldom fails on a nice Spring day.
That also has to do with the thermal efficiency of your home. I am in central TX and we didn't have to run any extra heaters. While we didn't have an abundance of solar during that time, we had enough to keep most of our necessary units running. We couldn't keep our heat pump running, but again due to the newness of our home it stayed within living parameters.
Our biggest issue during the storm was the water problems. Even then we were ok thanks to our casual prepping nature.
@@DarthPoyner In my older home we have improved our windows and insulation but there are limits to what is practical. What I most lacked was battery storage. One day's mild weather capacity is simply not enough to ensure security. Multi-day outages have happened before and will likely happen again. We had an ERCOT warning just last week. Large storage will even allow more effective use of generators in times of crisis and better make use of the grid when it is available.
FWIW, we were the only house on out block that remained occupied throughout the event. It reached 0F at our house and we were w/o power for 42 hours. No pipes froze and we remained reasonably comfortable in adventure mode. Houses in the D/FW area simply were not built for that weather and people here don't prepare, but we do.
Much of how to deal with winter cold depends on whether or not local LPG- or central NG is available.
In our rural area almost everyone has a 250gallon tank of propane on their property. Lower elevations closer to towns have Natural Gas as an option.
During wintertime in the mountain area we live, losing grid power is a given.
@@kamakaziozzie3038 Yes, we have a family place in the mountains. A Sears kit house from early last century built over a stone basement, expanded and updated over generations, it can remain comfortable without power. The majority of American homes are nowhere near as self-reliant.
What I would like to see when doing comparisons with price would be to choose a minimum specification and price the minimum system with those specs. For example if you decide you need 20kwh and 7kw to power your test home. You'd need 2 powerwall 2's or a generac system with maybe 2 cabinets if that's even possible? That way you can compare all your batteries the same.
Yes, 2 cabinets to one inverter is possible
Good review, I will be forwarding on. I just wanted to mention that the Tesla Powerwalls can stack up to 6 units. At least that is what it says in the quote I just did. Again. You helped bring to light good points for both. Helped me decide to go with Tesla. Although the case you made for the Generac was compelling.
Great point! I'll be doing a follow up video about Generac soon. They have a whole set of load management features that allows you to backup the entire house using a much smaller battery than Tesla.
Great information, I am planning to go into solar with my construction company. I see some good things here
Sounds good. Please reach out to us once you're up and running and we can probably send some projects your way!
Lots of people reporting the Islanding Overload fault with the PWRCELL. In places were voltage fluctuations is common, the PWRCELL enters into fault mode and shutdown instead of interpreting the fluctuations as a grid failure to activate battery backup.
Thanks for the feedback. We will keep an eye on this.
You need to give cost numbers even if it was at time of recording. The generac would need to be presented with two cost numbers because of the initial base cost and the expansion cost.
Nice vid.....just subscribed. The TH-cam algorithm is scary accurate about me.
Welcome to the channel!
Outstanding video man thank you!
For those watching, they should know that the battery banks shown on the outside of buildings, are often rendered unuseable in the cold weather of northern climates, where the batteries would need to be inside the home, not outside, not in the garage.
This is moderately misleading. You can add multiple power walls to increase both capacity and continuous draw. I have 3 power walls which gives me 40 kWh and 15 kW continuous. The price has gone up since I purchased and government incentives have gone down, but my total installed cost was 18k. Last, the specs you used for the powerwall are out of date. They upgraded them in November 2020 to output 9.6 kW continuous.
Great presentation ! Nicely done.
Super helpful and useful. I live in Dallas, and although I did not lose power during Icepocalypse 2021, I am extremely paranoid about ERCOT's complete inability to ensure Electricty Reliablity, I have been hemming and hawing about getting a battery backup for my existing (SolarCity, now Tesla) rooftop solar panels. I *think* Tesla is refusing to install PowerWalls for anyone other than Tesla customers, but I'm not sure, and even if they are, I'm not sure if they're refusing to install them for existing customers (versus only installing them on new systems).
However, living in Dallas...central AC is not a luxury, it's an absolute REQUIREMENT, so that additional surge power is a necessity. I can go without a lot of stuff, or work around a lot of things, but a temperature at which I'm not going to die is not one of them.
[My AC went out several years ago, and it was literally cooler in the garage than it was in the house. I ended up filling the tub with what passes for cold water in Texas (sometimes in summer the "cold' water is actually higher temperature than the 'hot' water...) and sitting in the tub for the several hours until it got repaired. It was horrible. And I don't have a pool.]
Thank you for the information!
Hi and thanks for writing in to share your experience.
I didn’t see you you cover one of the big advantages of the generac system is you can add a standby generator to charge batteries.
Thanks for mentioning this. I've been having a hard time getting a straight answer on this capability. It appears that Generac now supports this feature, but you would have to add on an extra component, the PWRcell Automatic Transfer Switch.
And Enphase will be adding this feature very soon
@@ABC-wz2db Yep. I just heard about this. It's so important to have that generator re-charge capability when running off-the-grid. I've had a few clients where they are 100% off-grid full time and they use the generator 500+ hours per year, especially during the winter season.
I have a friend who says that by adding soft start to his appliances he saves on electricity. Admittedly his usage is >10x less than mine.
Outstanding
The generac system can run the house of solar power (in case of grid loss) and will only tap into the battery if the PV power no longer is able to provide the energy draw from the loads. I would have given the pwrcell one more x-factor point for that. The inverter has 4 DC bus'es to hookup, so you can actually have 3 battery cabinets hooked up and the 4th for PV input (which would be underrated compared to storage size). I think a balanced system would have 2 battery cabinets & 2 PV strings with optimizers. Not the cheapest solution, but pretty flexible imo
I agree. 2 PV strings, 2 battery cabinets would provide the most balanced design for residential grid-tie with battery backup.
Very helpful comparison! Thank you very much.
Thanks for the great analysis
I would have liked some idea how much each unit would cost. Thank you
Very informative! Will definitively explore both options.
I have a general question. At night when the solar panels are no longer producing power, does the battery kick in or do you have to draw power from the grid. A/C is my biggest concern. I live in the desert. Thank you.
In my case (tesla) battery kicks in
Thanks ... that was helpful
If someone has no solar panels and were to install a solar+battery system from scratch - how would the prices of the 2 products compare (including installation etc)? Are both the products compatible with all types of homes?
Would you do a video on Sol-Ark vs Tesla inverter and Home Grid Stack'd Battery vs Tesla Battery?
Researching solar plus battery to do this year. Thanks for the info! Planning one solar on roof plus one battery just to run refrigerator and other critical components during outage.
Sounds good. We're happy to help you get setup whenever the time is right.
You should have included a review of the user interface (the app) for each.
Thanks for the feedback.
No discussion on stacking the powerwall's We can come back later and just add a battery and a breaker up to 8 powerwalls
Well done
Good information - Thank you
Great review. Thank you
Don’t like Tesla but I’m an actual PWR Cell system has been junk, never runs more than six months without failure. Has failed multiple times during power cuts. It has safety issues with the snap RS fiasco and now my system is down as often as up and Generac only gives me a run around. MY SYSTEM IS ONLY THREE YEARS OLD. This is why Generac has four class action lawsuits pending.
I like the expandability of the Generac. Since Tesla stopped selling power walls to consumers who didn’t purchase solar from them it’s a no brainer for me. Generac would be the choice.
You can still get Tesla Powerwall's through Tesla-certified dealers like us. However, in many cases, Generac PWRCell is a better option because of its Intelligent Load Management.
It would have been nice to see some actual price figures but I guess that's expecting too much.
Very well done presentation thank you. I live off grid in Alaska and have several months with very low light levels for solar panels. You wouldn't happen to have a series on setting up a complete off grid system with generator, AGS, efficient use of generator to recharge batteries with minimizing power loss, as well as any possible turn key systems out there would you?
Thanks for the note. I will do a future video on this subject. The Outback Radian is the system that would provide all of the capabilities you just mentioned and that's why I use Radian on my home here. th-cam.com/video/5CXxOHKR9jc/w-d-xo.html
Good presentation. I think one X-Factor not considered with the Powerwall is the integration with the Tesla Eco-System. If you have a Tesla vehicle, you have one App to control both the car and PW. With a Tesla High-Powerwall wall-charger you have additional integration. For example you can set the unit not to charge your Tesla car during a power outage. For example if you lose power during the middle of the night when you normally charge your car, you wouldn't wake-up to a possibly drained battery system because the system charged your car while the power was out.
Very good points here. You would definitely not want to waste precious battery storage on charging you EV. However, I envision in the future we will be able to use our EV batteries to interface with the solar/inverter for backup power.
You should do another comparison with PowerWall 2 updated firmware. I have 2 Powerwalls and I'm very happy. I also have 2 AC units and can run them at the same time.
Thanks for the feedback. We will plan a future video with the updated firmware specs.
My understanding is that Tesla can not charge from grid (at off peak rates) when connected to solar, but the Generac can. Can you comment on this.
Great comparrison
Wait….. Telsa PWRwall has a capacity of 13.5kwh…. The PWRcell can be anywhere from 6kwh all the way up to 36kwhs. A quick google search confirmed this form me. Please explain your statements.
3:20 "...for the home's critical systems, so long as you're not doing anything heavy, like central air conditioning..."
I don't know where you live, but where I live, air conditioning is not a luxury, but a life-critical necessity for about half the year, and power outages can occur at any time of the year.
Good point. In that case, Generac PWRCell wins hands down.
Kilowatt is kW not KW as per your video. KW would be KelvinWatts (whatever that might be). Kilo is a small k - kW; 1000W.
Subscribed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Excellent videos. I would only give Tesla one point for being pretty. My points give generac the win. According to your chart.
Great Overview! I'm wondering about upgradability for Tesla Powerwall 2.. Our home has 2 units with ≈6.5kWh solar. System works great, but we're thinking of adding electric car next year.
Can I have one of these on my house without having a solar panel system? I’m just looking to have some stored power for storm caused power outages? I’m hoping to just charge it from the grid and use it if the grid goes out
Can’t you also easily add extra battery panel to the tesla PowerWall just as easily as the Generac?
Generac for the win.
Very informative !
Well done!
This video is very informative!
Glad it was helpful!
I read recently that Tesla isn't selling the Powerwall to you unless you buy solar from them. This could be temporary because of of the chip shortage...or maybe not.
We will see. I am hearing conflicting reports about this issue.
Of course currently I'm told, you’re not able to purchase the Tesla Powerwall individually; it must be combined with a Tesla solar system installation.
Guess that's swell for those that have an extra 40 or 50K stuck somewhere.
I believe that you cannot add a Tesla Powerwall to and existing solar system, you must buy the solar panels and in order to get the powerwall, it would be great to update this video, maybe you have already, thank you for the information.
We still have Powerwall's available to add-on to existing solar.
I got a quote for the tesla one Total cost would be 20,000 installation included when done paying it off on a 25 year loan total would be 28,000 this is through the solar company i have does this sound legit i just canceled doing cause paying 25 years for something that last 10 just didn't seem right
The Generac PWRcell actually manages your PV and charges batteries in addition to powering AC loads without compromising the load AC capacity. You can place up to 15kw of PV on one 7kw Generac inverter in addition to having battery capacity on the same system. Way more functionality than a tesla ac coupled powerwall. Generac allows PV to be DC coupled and Powerwall cant do PV management directly and is AC coupled with lower capacity.
All valid points here. Thanks for the feedback.
I wish you would've gave some type of prices
As of right now, you are look at about $12.5k for a Powerwall installed. Generac PWRCell starts at $15k.
No description of DC vs AC coupled. DC has huge advantages over the AC because you don't need the grid to supply the charge over a long time frame.
Great video. Wish you were in my area to install.
if you have any high AC power consumers that have a surge on startup, i've always installed my systems with an AC power damper for a softer start.
Look into Sol-Ark 12k inverters. I have one running in Pittsburgh, Pa. Not the best for solar. 22Kwhr AGM battery PC-320, 10.7Kw Solar array. Total critical load for 3 days, with out sunlight. If you are not afraid to DIY, then its the best path.
Yep, I actually just did a video on Sol-Ark. Please check it out here: th-cam.com/video/qulaBRPUqzw/w-d-xo.html
Powerwall is 48v with a bidirectional buck inverter inside to bring the voltage to 400vdc wish someone would sell the buck inverter so you can uses any 48v battery bank. Bet it is the same with Solaredge battery too.
One of the advantages to the power wall you missed his ability in many locations to sell power back to the grid. That can be very helpful for offsetting the cost of the unit.
The Generac can also sell power back to the grid.
Pretty sure any good home battery back up system can do that. Its like one of the major selling points for all of them.
@@CrossWindsPat Yes. But Nathan said it was an advantage to the power wall and I was pointing out the Generac can do that as well, so, not an advantage. And yes, any battery should be able to do that.
@@donaldl43 ahh I see fair point
what is the cost of adding a Tesla 2 battery backup?
You didn't discuss if either unit can be controlled or monitored by an app that is very important in this day and age.
Yes, both have app support. For Tesla vehicle owners, they will like being about to monitor both the EV and Powerwalls on the same app.
I think that you forgot Safety. Which one is safer?
Generac
great video .., with the powerwall setup according to your video i wouldn't need solar panels ?
That is correct. You can use Tesla Powerwall as a stand-alone battery backup charged from the grid only.
I would think customer service would be a category of importance. However, good video.
I like genarac they make quality an reliability of there products my father. Has there gas genarac generator in country for 15 years an never failed him telsa is good an hopefully improves I get nervous about fire with telsa batteries
Both Tesla and Generac use the same battery chemistry Lithium NMC
@@SolarSurge yes but I haven't seen genarac start any fires were I have seen telsa batteries set cars house an r.v. on fire so I just don't trust it yet I can't wait to see them incorporate telsa roof tile. An batteries in nose cap of r.v.s it will be awesome
I see you don't service Maryland..any recommendations?
Thanks for the info!
I currently have solar, I think the Tesla option will work for me. My power panel is on the outside of my home. Will the installation be connected to current solar system?
Nice vid;. PW does have the gateway as a second component, not a big deal just mentioning.
Good point.