My favorite thing is how in almost every episode there is some moment where Phil just stops talking and intensely counting like he is plotting the heist of the century while the other three are just giggling about nonsense that has very little to nothing to do with the game. He is almost always the quiet one but there are just moments where its very exaggerated and it just makes me smile. But the whole experience of the chuckling troll of Crim the veiled dryer humor of Seth and Tomer just hiding his inner torment in a smile and vague attempts to deflect, is why I tune in every week.
Agreed, but I also think it's quite bothersome that the other guys often talk over Phil when he's trying to say something... then he just goes quiet. 😟
On this week of "Punt or Bluff?" war never ends.... Will Tomer show everyone what happens when you make Mom mad or will Seth just play with his toys in the corner? Tune-in to find out!
1:07:48 I found Commander Clash recently and have been watching the episodes like crazy. And it’s always fun seeing stuff like this. We just got the Surveil Lands recently and Seth was talking about needing them in old CC 😂
To answer Seth's question: In The Brothers War (the book) Tawnos is specifically known for making automata that replicate animals. That's why the tokens that come in are also artifacts
Kayla really needs you to run the card library of leng so u can discard cards u want to keep to the top of your library so you can still use them later
Ok so if I'm not mistaken, this interaction doesn't work. Library of leng cares about effects that make you discard and Kaylas discard ability is an ability not an effect.
@@daredewley9231 Kayla's ability is worded such that the cost is paying 4 and tapping her. Discarding your hand is part of the effect, so Library Of Leng could be used to put hands from your hand on top of your deck.
Spoiler Comment: Besides a few choice cards, Crim's deck and playstyle this week really reminded me of how Richard pulls off wins. Was fortunate that Phil attracted most of the heat for removal and got lucky his Kindred Discovery lasted as long as it did to generate the card advantage for the win. Overall though, was great to see everyone's deck play out as much as they did. No mana-screw situations and enough interaction to keep the game relatively close.
*Spoiler* Kinda mind blowing that Seth swung in at empty handed Phil at the end and not Crim. I know we can see Crim's hand but dang. Tomer knew it all along!
Dude Crim manipulated the table so hard lol Seth was his puppet, I don't know how Crim wasn't seen as the threat with Kindred Discovery + Eldrazi Monument.. yeah and he was sand bagging cyclonic rift, teferi's protection, flawless maneuver... yikes
Tbh I usually don't get tilted but Seth severely tiled me this game. Like Phil was willing to take his whole turn to try and go after Crim and Seth used all his resources to kill the guy who was willing to devote himself to the biggest threat at the table. He just falls into the noob trap, of not making people have it. Crim is smart as he is getting double and triple use out of his removal. He uses it as a threat against Seth and Seth just keeps going else where and then Crim gets to save all his answers for the 1v1. The biggest noob mistake you can make is to let the man with all the answers keep them. Make them use their cards, make them have it. Don't let their answers get double the value just because you don't want to lose your thing. Otherwise they get to dictate the pass and you will lose every time.
I hated this whole episode. I hate when people fall for political BS. If he has it make him use it, otherwise you are just going to have to deal w all his answers on your own.
@@autoenthused wow I bet you're a blast to play with. They're not playing CEDH here, they're having fun and Crim and Seth were anti-artifact buddies. It's funny to me that y'all are so tilted over this.
The artifact decks were one turn away from being unassailable at multiple points, people online are always revisionist, have all the information and take things way too seriously. Yes Crim only won because Seth made the choices he made, but if he didn't align himself with Crim he wouldn't even be close to winning. It's just bad luck no-one ever got to deal with Kindred Discovery, it did its damage pretty early on regardless.
Absolutely it was the first precon I've bought in many years and I also immediously built the ashnod from the precon. Two decks that reward me for doing my usual playstyle of no creatures+ weird artifacts hell yeah!
2:40 I JUST played the precon tonight against my friends and after an OP sol ring I had three metalwork colossuses on the battlefield around turn 5... I still lost that game however some magically how!!! I love this format
17:36 about Kayla: "I thought you just straight up discarded." "That would... that would make it a little worse." Yeah... more like Queen Kayla bin-Buh Bye!
Tomer wanting Kayla to not only cheat out 6 mana worth of cards, and replace those cards, he wants to be able to select to keep the other good cards in his hand? Like, yeah that WOULD be better, but it would be pretty bonkers to just keep going and going. I feel like if there's cards that you don't either want to reanimate with Kayla, or can't cast from your graveyard, you probably want to re-evaluate whether you want them in the deck.
I mean, Tomer apparently doesn't know about Library Of Leng. Which happens to be a 1 mana artifact, which would let you put any number of the cards discarded to her ability back on top of your library to be redrawn. So while what he wants isn't entirely out of the question... I somehow doubt it would fall into Tomer's awareness due to it being a pretty old card and $2.57 would make it a hard sell for his $50 budget decks.
It was just unlucky of me that I drew both mass reanimate spells early on, Brilliant Restoration and Wake the Past. So I hesitated on wheeling them because those are how I recover from a board wipe. But in hindsight I should just activate Kayla each turn and hope for the best. Also Library of Leng is 100% a card to include and maybe even tutor up, I forgot to add it.
Didn't come up in the game but be careful with Guardian Project in Tawnos (and Volo) decks. It can't draw cards when your commander is in play (tokens don't trigger GP and when the creature enters, you control another creature with the same Name and GP doesn't trigger either).
Really like the synergy between you guys, just wish you would use some other tool to represent your games, its soooo hard to tell whats going on with MTGO and kills all the fun watching it.
11:50 another reason this card was busted back in the day was damage was put on stack, so you put damage on stack and then sac it to gain life, same with mogg fanatic and other sac cards
@@HypnoticGG Oh yeah, I know. And I'll keep commenting on whether I think it was correct or not, because usually Seth loses and then Tomer goes "I was right, you shouldn't have killed me"
Two great cards for Harbin I've found that have won me more games than just straight up combat dmg are Strixhaven Stadium as well as Halo Fountain. GREAT deck tech and win cons. Halo Fountain can help you stay IN THE GAME and it can help you WIN the game and in my opinion, Harbin benefits quite a lot from creating loads of soldier tokens which then, even if you cannot connect, could win the game. Of course, having a bunch of soldiers out with True Conviction type cards can still easily win you a game against an opponent with no fliers and nothing to block or whatever, but still, those two cards above are perfect for contingency plans where you may need a weirder win con option. Let's say that the player is pillowforting against you or that they have near infinite life or something, well...then you can STILL win decisively AND gain benefit during the course of the game. Honestly, things like Wand of the Worldsoul and Halo Fountain should be seen as more or less staples in white decks yet I don't hear about them as much as I'd think, maybe it's cause mostly white decks aren't as popular or? IDK I've only played about a year now
I just thought of something, Nephalia Academy lets you selectively discard cards from your hand with Queen Kayla, so you can reanimate whan you want and then keep what you want to. ^^
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure Nephalia Academy specifies that it must be an effect that an opponent controls for it to trigger. Library of Leng on the other hand would be perfect.
Tomer is like a little kid who wants you to chase him, then freaks out and cries when you do. It’s a wonder that he and Richard could play so much together and yet be opposites.
When doing end of the year stats you should do something related to someone making a comment about the game being over or someone getting killed. Average number of turns after someone says “so you just win next turn.” Who says it the most and how early. Percentage that someone correctly predicts imminent doom like Tomer did this game.
Hey Seth the wording on Tawnos makes a copy of the spell on the stack and there for doesn't trigger doubling season. The creature comes in as a token but there is no effect making a token to trigger D.S.
@@Karonar ok, so instead of trigger it doesn't activate the replacement effect. Either way it's because it copies the spell on the stack that it doesn't create a token to activate the replacement effect. Not a trigger in the game terms but still a trigger imo.
I also think Dragonspark Reactor is just a good card in artifact decks. I run it in my Mahadi board-wipe tribal and all those treasures turn it into a giga-cannon that regularly blows a player out of the game on its own.
Someone may have already pointed this out, but Phil trying to double down on two coveted jewels could have still happened. He had two treasures and a goblin engineer, and oh man would I have liked to see that. Maybe even more than two portals
@@MTGGoldfishCommander I’m just glad something didnt happen with TH-cam taking the video down or anything glad all is well amazing video keep up the good work!!
Every week I ask myself: Will this week's Commander Clash involve Seth making threat assessments, Tomer not attempting to downplay the power of his deck, or Crim not being archenemy? This week, if nothing else, Crim wasn't the obvious archenemy.
Seth really needs to start realizing threat assessments, Phil is dead in the water Crim has a bunch of stuff and instead of making Crim have it he just helps Crim out by going for Phil. It makes no sense at all, like Phil is literally saying he will use his whole turn to try and target Crim and Seth just ignores that?
They were anti-artifact buddies. If you play edh enough you'll learn sometimes having fun is more worth it. It's not like they're over here cedh-ing with owlbears.
@@autoenthused looked like they were all having fun to me. Mistakes happen, no need to get worked up about it, especially if you aren't playing in that game
Everything is scary if not answered if you play 7 removal spells in your list, Tomer. Don't play 2 wraths, play 5. I usually play 7, even in creature decks. SPECIALLY in creature decks, bc I don't shoot myself in the foot since I control when to wrath and what kind of wrath to run. There's a lot of land ramp for non-green colors, enough to run multiple Artifacts and/or Enchantment wraths.
@anix712 but like... you can't play Blasphemous Act as a land for turn... i feel like this is apples and oranges we're comparing AND i was just being a little goofball
I will run them in 2C budget decks but not elsewhere. The only reason I defend them is because the rest of the crew thinks they're better than Temples in 2C but I disagree, I'll take the land that enters untapped sometimes over the land that enters tapped every time.
I mean it's very questionable if it's the worst soldier tribal card. The alternative is mono white for mana and has significantly more restricted car draw and interaction versus the one that has the second color can run cards like kindred Discovery and tutor things like eldrazi's monuments.
@@MTGGoldfishCommander No problem, at first I thought it was a problem with my headset. The video was enjoyable nonetheless, thank you, and high five from Italy :D
The math has been done, snarls cone into play tapped often enough in two color decks that they are absolutely worth it. 3 and above? No, but the hate is based on mana bases that don't work with them rather than a rational argument against them.
Glad that Crim won, wish Crim was playing the Mishra as i love that pre-con and he would totally make a mean, mean deck with it. Want Richard to come back so he can play Townos bird tribal! Lol
My favorite thing is how in almost every episode there is some moment where Phil just stops talking and intensely counting like he is plotting the heist of the century while the other three are just giggling about nonsense that has very little to nothing to do with the game. He is almost always the quiet one but there are just moments where its very exaggerated and it just makes me smile. But the whole experience of the chuckling troll of Crim the veiled dryer humor of Seth and Tomer just hiding his inner torment in a smile and vague attempts to deflect, is why I tune in every week.
Agreed, but I also think it's quite bothersome that the other guys often talk over Phil when he's trying to say something... then he just goes quiet. 😟
@andli it be like that for us quiet people haha
On this week of "Punt or Bluff?" war never ends.... Will Tomer show everyone what happens when you make Mom mad or will Seth just play with his toys in the corner? Tune-in to find out!
1:07:48 I found Commander Clash recently and have been watching the episodes like crazy. And it’s always fun seeing stuff like this. We just got the Surveil Lands recently and Seth was talking about needing them in old CC 😂
To answer Seth's question: In The Brothers War (the book) Tawnos is specifically known for making automata that replicate animals. That's why the tokens that come in are also artifacts
Kayla really needs you to run the card library of leng so u can discard cards u want to keep to the top of your library so you can still use them later
I run it in mine. Which I built the deck because my wife's name is literally Kayla
Scroll Rack would also be handy to put away the stuff you don't want to discard before you activate Kayla.
Ok so if I'm not mistaken, this interaction doesn't work. Library of leng cares about effects that make you discard and Kaylas discard ability is an ability not an effect.
@@daredewley9231 Kayla's ability is worded such that the cost is paying 4 and tapping her. Discarding your hand is part of the effect, so Library Of Leng could be used to put hands from your hand on top of your deck.
Yes, I really needed that. If I played the deck again I would add Library and maybe budget ways to tutor it.
Spoiler Comment:
Besides a few choice cards, Crim's deck and playstyle this week really reminded me of how Richard pulls off wins. Was fortunate that Phil attracted most of the heat for removal and got lucky his Kindred Discovery lasted as long as it did to generate the card advantage for the win.
Overall though, was great to see everyone's deck play out as much as they did. No mana-screw situations and enough interaction to keep the game relatively close.
*Spoiler*
Kinda mind blowing that Seth swung in at empty handed Phil at the end and not Crim. I know we can see Crim's hand but dang. Tomer knew it all along!
Dude Crim manipulated the table so hard lol Seth was his puppet, I don't know how Crim wasn't seen as the threat with Kindred Discovery + Eldrazi Monument.. yeah and he was sand bagging cyclonic rift, teferi's protection, flawless maneuver... yikes
Tbh I usually don't get tilted but Seth severely tiled me this game. Like Phil was willing to take his whole turn to try and go after Crim and Seth used all his resources to kill the guy who was willing to devote himself to the biggest threat at the table.
He just falls into the noob trap, of not making people have it. Crim is smart as he is getting double and triple use out of his removal. He uses it as a threat against Seth and Seth just keeps going else where and then Crim gets to save all his answers for the 1v1.
The biggest noob mistake you can make is to let the man with all the answers keep them. Make them use their cards, make them have it. Don't let their answers get double the value just because you don't want to lose your thing. Otherwise they get to dictate the pass and you will lose every time.
I hated this whole episode. I hate when people fall for political BS. If he has it make him use it, otherwise you are just going to have to deal w all his answers on your own.
@@autoenthused wow I bet you're a blast to play with. They're not playing CEDH here, they're having fun and Crim and Seth were anti-artifact buddies. It's funny to me that y'all are so tilted over this.
The artifact decks were one turn away from being unassailable at multiple points, people online are always revisionist, have all the information and take things way too seriously. Yes Crim only won because Seth made the choices he made, but if he didn't align himself with Crim he wouldn't even be close to winning. It's just bad luck no-one ever got to deal with Kindred Discovery, it did its damage pretty early on regardless.
Why would you kill someone w zero cards in hand when Crim had a solid board, and a full grip?!
"Yeah I only have about 3 artifacts in my deck, I intentionally left out mana rocks" he says, holding a Great Henge
A commander clash tradition. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Crim is so shady lol never trust him
Phil playing my favorite precon commander is a huge feels good.
Yeah I'm thinking about building it in paper as well, this was such a blast to play
I have it built and once I saw Arcum Daggson in hand I popped off.
@@Jidayun Arcum is so stupid in this deck 🤣
@@BrewersKitchen I also saw some cards I could swap in like Prize Statue. Thanks for that
Absolutely it was the first precon I've bought in many years and I also immediously built the ashnod from the precon. Two decks that reward me for doing my usual playstyle of no creatures+ weird artifacts hell yeah!
‘Isit good in soul sisters?’ Cracked me up
Portal to phyrexia is insane in colorless commanders
Seth got puppeted pretty hard this episode
2:40 I JUST played the precon tonight against my friends and after an OP sol ring I had three metalwork colossuses on the battlefield around turn 5... I still lost that game however some magically how!!! I love this format
17:36 about Kayla:
"I thought you just straight up discarded."
"That would... that would make it a little worse."
Yeah... more like Queen Kayla bin-Buh Bye!
Tomer wanting Kayla to not only cheat out 6 mana worth of cards, and replace those cards, he wants to be able to select to keep the other good cards in his hand? Like, yeah that WOULD be better, but it would be pretty bonkers to just keep going and going. I feel like if there's cards that you don't either want to reanimate with Kayla, or can't cast from your graveyard, you probably want to re-evaluate whether you want them in the deck.
I mean, Tomer apparently doesn't know about Library Of Leng. Which happens to be a 1 mana artifact, which would let you put any number of the cards discarded to her ability back on top of your library to be redrawn.
So while what he wants isn't entirely out of the question... I somehow doubt it would fall into Tomer's awareness due to it being a pretty old card and $2.57 would make it a hard sell for his $50 budget decks.
It was just unlucky of me that I drew both mass reanimate spells early on, Brilliant Restoration and Wake the Past. So I hesitated on wheeling them because those are how I recover from a board wipe. But in hindsight I should just activate Kayla each turn and hope for the best.
Also Library of Leng is 100% a card to include and maybe even tutor up, I forgot to add it.
Didn't come up in the game but be careful with Guardian Project in Tawnos (and Volo) decks. It can't draw cards when your commander is in play (tokens don't trigger GP and when the creature enters, you control another creature with the same Name and GP doesn't trigger either).
Really like the synergy between you guys, just wish you would use some other tool to represent your games, its soooo hard to tell whats going on with MTGO and kills all the fun watching it.
11:50 another reason this card was busted back in the day was damage was put on stack, so you put damage on stack and then sac it to gain life, same with mogg fanatic and other sac cards
Man brother's war is a cool set for commander
Crim's gotta table against a real pirate deck my boy is SLEEPIN on the high seas
Killing Tomer was correct, but then Seth should have allied with Phil to stop Crim
You must be new here. Killing Phil arbitrarily is Seth's pastime.
@@HypnoticGG Oh yeah, I know. And I'll keep commenting on whether I think it was correct or not, because usually Seth loses and then Tomer goes "I was right, you shouldn't have killed me"
This was so fun to watch 😁
Two great cards for Harbin I've found that have won me more games than just straight up combat dmg are Strixhaven Stadium as well as Halo Fountain. GREAT deck tech and win cons. Halo Fountain can help you stay IN THE GAME and it can help you WIN the game and in my opinion, Harbin benefits quite a lot from creating loads of soldier tokens which then, even if you cannot connect, could win the game. Of course, having a bunch of soldiers out with True Conviction type cards can still easily win you a game against an opponent with no fliers and nothing to block or whatever, but still, those two cards above are perfect for contingency plans where you may need a weirder win con option. Let's say that the player is pillowforting against you or that they have near infinite life or something, well...then you can STILL win decisively AND gain benefit during the course of the game. Honestly, things like Wand of the Worldsoul and Halo Fountain should be seen as more or less staples in white decks yet I don't hear about them as much as I'd think, maybe it's cause mostly white decks aren't as popular or? IDK I've only played about a year now
nice - intro has music this time!
I just thought of something, Nephalia Academy lets you selectively discard cards from your hand with Queen Kayla, so you can reanimate whan you want and then keep what you want to. ^^
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure Nephalia Academy specifies that it must be an effect that an opponent controls for it to trigger. Library of Leng on the other hand would be perfect.
@@gillfren2473 Oh wops, my bad. Reading the card explains the card. ^^"
Can you guys just say meeshra for 5 minutes. Puts a smile on my face. 27:55. 1:06:40. 1:09:55
Sad that Tomer isn't using the Beasties deck.
Poor Phil! The pan-atlantic societey thwarted another Phyrexian takeover...
i love your games. It is new meta to me,
*Holds pointer finger up*
I think you all mean
Poral to PHIL-Rexia.
Tomer is like a little kid who wants you to chase him, then freaks out and cries when you do. It’s a wonder that he and Richard could play so much together and yet be opposites.
what if you did an all urza commander clash! there's enough now right?
When doing end of the year stats you should do something related to someone making a comment about the game being over or someone getting killed. Average number of turns after someone says “so you just win next turn.” Who says it the most and how early. Percentage that someone correctly predicts imminent doom like Tomer did this game.
Hey Seth the wording on Tawnos makes a copy of the spell on the stack and there for doesn't trigger doubling season. The creature comes in as a token but there is no effect making a token to trigger D.S.
Doubling Season isnt a trigger, but a replacement effect ;-)
@@Karonar ok, so instead of trigger it doesn't activate the replacement effect. Either way it's because it copies the spell on the stack that it doesn't create a token to activate the replacement effect. Not a trigger in the game terms but still a trigger imo.
@@mattpettit5235 I know that for players, everything is a trigger :D
A copy is not a token until its already on the field. So you are not creating tokens ( even if you are in all but name). The rule is pretty dumb
I love how seth says meeeeshra
I'll be honest, sometimes this match felt a bit disorienting when Seth was saying what he was about to do with me😅
@52:08 - Sorry Tomer, I try to be trustworthy
🤣
I also think Dragonspark Reactor is just a good card in artifact decks. I run it in my Mahadi board-wipe tribal and all those treasures turn it into a giga-cannon that regularly blows a player out of the game on its own.
Someone may have already pointed this out, but Phil trying to double down on two coveted jewels could have still happened. He had two treasures and a goblin engineer, and oh man would I have liked to see that. Maybe even more than two portals
Goblin Engineer can only bring back artifacts mana value 3 or less, even if it can tutor for any
Here for the queen and Mishra : D
Wow imagine Teferi’s protection being good backed with cyclonic rift lol.
What happened to the original video you posted early this morning?
Probably had some audio issues with the original since the sound syncing was off.
Original video didn't have audio for the intro, we had to reupload the fix.
@@MTGGoldfishCommander I’m just glad something didnt happen with TH-cam taking the video down or anything glad all is well amazing video keep up the good work!!
Something about the title Weenie Reanimator, does not sit well lmao...
First! Clash on!
So it 's Urzas brother vs. Urzas wife vs. Urzas son vs. Urzas best friend?
Okay here me out, stax week, everyone brings a different stax deck and everyone goes to time
Yes please
Crim reppin the Beam Team 💜
Seth, Twinning staff works!
Every week I ask myself: Will this week's Commander Clash involve Seth making threat assessments, Tomer not attempting to downplay the power of his deck, or Crim not being archenemy?
This week, if nothing else, Crim wasn't the obvious archenemy.
Seth really needs to start realizing threat assessments, Phil is dead in the water Crim has a bunch of stuff and instead of making Crim have it he just helps Crim out by going for Phil. It makes no sense at all, like Phil is literally saying he will use his whole turn to try and target Crim and Seth just ignores that?
I was tilted. Terrible threat assessment.
I disagree
They were anti-artifact buddies. If you play edh enough you'll learn sometimes having fun is more worth it. It's not like they're over here cedh-ing with owlbears.
@@mikemoyer8162 true but king making is a terrible gameplay experience. If two players want to constantly team up, play double headed dragon.
@@autoenthused looked like they were all having fun to me. Mistakes happen, no need to get worked up about it, especially if you aren't playing in that game
The only reason I tune in is to watch Seth blow up lands.
I gotta say the dubbing of Tomer was a lil wonky at the beginning, the VA was stellar don't get me wrong but he was a lil of tempo
Everything is scary if not answered if you play 7 removal spells in your list, Tomer. Don't play 2 wraths, play 5. I usually play 7, even in creature decks. SPECIALLY in creature decks, bc I don't shoot myself in the foot since I control when to wrath and what kind of wrath to run. There's a lot of land ramp for non-green colors, enough to run multiple Artifacts and/or Enchantment wraths.
1:07:53 Funny how here everyone is talking about how surveil lands would be too good but now we have fetchable surveil lands
Crim's gentrification comment was in poor taste.
Mishra does have combos
Tomer can say Snarls are good but he's the one who discarded it to Kayla instead of playing it. Says all I need to hear.
I mean, he also discarded Blasphemous Act to Kayla. I don't think you can really use that to gauge whether something's a bad card.
@anix712 but like... you can't play Blasphemous Act as a land for turn... i feel like this is apples and oranges we're comparing
AND i was just being a little goofball
I will run them in 2C budget decks but not elsewhere. The only reason I defend them is because the rest of the crew thinks they're better than Temples in 2C but I disagree, I'll take the land that enters untapped sometimes over the land that enters tapped every time.
Did Crim play the way worse soldier tribal commander just cause it has blue???
I mean it's very questionable if it's the worst soldier tribal card. The alternative is mono white for mana and has significantly more restricted car draw and interaction versus the one that has the second color can run cards like kindred Discovery and tutor things like eldrazi's monuments.
@P C Myrel has two abilities that are way more relevant than anything on Harbin
Release the Optimus cut
Is Tomer's voice out of synch? the rest seems ok though
Yes, looks like my laptop was struggling hard this week :(
@@MTGGoldfishCommander No problem, at first I thought it was a problem with my headset.
The video was enjoyable nonetheless, thank you, and high five from Italy :D
MOAR SLICER!!!! (please)
The math has been done, snarls cone into play tapped often enough in two color decks that they are absolutely worth it. 3 and above? No, but the hate is based on mana bases that don't work with them rather than a rational argument against them.
Tawnos would enjoy Horizon: Zero Dawn
Meow
Glad that Crim won, wish Crim was playing the Mishra as i love that pre-con and he would totally make a mean, mean deck with it. Want Richard to come back so he can play Townos bird tribal! Lol
People accept land destruction in modern because modern players aren't casuals 😏
Snarls are awful.
Never trust artifact decks. Crim is 100% correct on this.
Do more transformers please
please don't.
Thoroughly nauseous by all the old border cards I have to look at