Once something becomes open source and can build something that actually runs using open compilers then it will probably build/run on Linux at the least and Linux is very well behaved inside of virtualization even if you really can't support another system for Linux/CLAP testing only (if you don't already have a Linux box laying around). Just being open source makes it *super* accessible. I would watch out to see if there is going to be an adoption by other open DAW platforms/frameworks or even distros being released that "just set it up" and make it nice for users who just want to use the tool without spending as much time on system twiddling, dependency resolution, and package hunting.
Not going to happen. Those that don't support Linux now will not suddenly make the change because of this format. (I'm in the same boat, but I just put the money where it's worth and only buy software from vendors that support my platform)
@@yethiel You could use `yabridge` that can run Windows plugins via Wine. However it's an extra hassle; not everything works; is generally unsupported; won't work with things like iLok obviously; won't be as performant as native. I certainly wouldn't spend money on any software and then "hope" that it will run with such a solution. Maybe for freeware plugins that's OK to try them, but for all other cases I'd recommend to just stick to native.
I agree, unfortunately most plug-ins are written used Juce that fully supports Linux already but many plug-in developers don’t care. I think this is a good “standard” except that it isn’t a standard.
the guys at u-he are brilliant and i'm glad they're leading the charge. VST is a dinosaur, the transition to VST3 has been a disaster, and the SDK license is incredibly silly. the fact that one company holds most of the music production world in its hand is the worst possible outcome in every way. other opensource alternatives have attempted to step in, but they always lacked any staying power due to poor adoption and organization between developers. i hope CLAP will be different in that regard.
Sadly I can tell you it wont. What you stated as an issue with Linux projects... Poor Adoption will exist here. #1 search for CLAP is an STD and people turn around, They need a better name or adoption will not happen.
@@segfault-berlin So SEO is about humor? Huh, I did not know that. Good to know. I hope the search engines can keep up with your false expectation. LMAO
As a Linux user a lot about CLAP feels like LV2 in a lot of ways. Many of the things CLAP brings like the forced separation between UI threads and the sound DSP threading and hell even explicit multi-threading support is all ready in LV2 as either part of the core spec or as part of one of the common extensions. But one place where CLAP all ready shows a lot more potential is adoption while LV2 in theory could be supported outside of Linux it's basically non existent out side of the Linux ecosystem for either desktop or embedded devices. LV2 is actually what underpins a few effects units on the market all ready like the Mod Devices pedals and units and the stuff from Poly Effects as well as quietly being used internally for some synths that use Linux as the internal host software. But this brings me to one of the biggest cruxes with Linux for audio work in general, while very powerful and often used for stand alone devices desktop support and adoption for audio has always been an issue. All though I do have to say having Bitwig on Linux and Reaper both has been a big thing for world of Linux Pro audio. EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention is I know a lot of the core people around LV2 and that have been keeping it alive and well thriving in it's little corner are involved with CLAP and it's planned to basically be the eventual successor to the LV2 format on Linux as the native first plugin choice. This IMO is a big deal as it will open up a rather large world of open source LV2 plugins to a wider audience and I mean there is a reason why some people have bought stuff like from the likes of Mod Devices just to simply get their hands on some of the effects that exist in LV2's little world.
@@Hainbach Yeah any one following the Linux pro audio circles has been aware of CLAP for years now as initial work on the technical spec started like 4-5 years ago or better as a way to address some of the issues around LV2 and it's frankly slightly odd governance structure.
It's not theory. Reaper, Ardour, Mixbus, Carla, Mixxx, JUCE7, and many more, already support LV2 fully cross-platform. Somehow people think that the L stands for Linux and then assume it won't run anywhere else. Not like the L in CLAP stands for Linux. It's just a letter. Btw I LOVE my MOD units and the flexibility that LV2 plugins offer. CLAP is still quite far removed from achieving the LV2 adoption and functionality though. I don't see many porting their LV2 plugins to CLAP any time soon. With something like MOD you have to port the entire Host and modgui system as well. Somewhat unlikely, but one can always send a pull-request to make it happen!
I'd forgotten all about that platform ☹️ I used to dabble in Linux occasionally, each time I retired a Windows machine, and I work as a developer so I know a lot of Linux users but I've been on Mac for 10 years just for the easy life. That's a really insightful comment though!
This is really cool! I saw Cockos on the list. I wouldn't be surprised if they're one of the ones to get on board early. Would be lovely to see Ableton on the list.
An open AND open-source standard is a really great thing to have. The fact that it's bleeding edge is also really cool because it's made with modern systems in mind and can therefor better utilize the available resources much better which, as you already mentioned, means you can run more plugins at once. Adoption of new formats is always rather slow especially in such a big industry like music production. But once more people start to see the benefits of CLAP, more and more people will get onboard. As with every new and promising technology, it's only a matter of time before it gets adopted. I mean, VST wasn't immediately adopted by everyone either I'm pretty sure.
I bought Wires based on this. I'd been thinking about it for a while, but this pushed me over the edge. I already own a lot of other Audiothing plugins, and I really hope they start porting the rest of them to this new framework.
@@_DRMR_ surprisingly they can be related, and if some extensions need to be added to CLAP, it's possible to pull off. first of all, I think main problem GPU Audio will face is having a way to manage GPU task scheduling across different instances and plugins that would use it. and CLAP could have a way of solving that better than existing plugin API's do currently, in same way it can let host schedule multi-threading.
A few of us have been talking to the gpu audio folks but they are “different” things. Think about clap as the collaboration layer between a host and a plugin whereas gpu usage is more how to make your dsp use the gpu subsystem. Maybe (maybe) a clap extension like the cpu thread pool could help but by being extensible, there’s nothing stopping that happening today.
@@baconpaul5772 Sure, but right now there are no developer resources available for gpu audio and it's likely to be a proprietary extension. Which imo as a "platform" is much less interesting for developers to invest in. "you can do everything with an extension" of course, but that doesn't necessarily mean you should ;)
@@_DRMR_ I have not had a chance to dive in deeply to what the folks are doing yeah. But we believe their work should work with clap although is at a different point in the stack indeed.
Always love watching your videos. And I get deja vu when I see the HP tone generators that I recognize for my practice lessons when I was learing to be a electrician in the 1980's. Using them as an audio oscilator was always more fun than testing electronic circuits with them :-)
Damn! You stole my joke. I should blame YT for not showing this video on my feed any earlier. Maybe it thought it was a medicine video. Now, we wait for the 'applause' and cowbell jokes...
Just downloaded the update. I use Harrison Mixbus 32C which is based on the open source Ardour DAW so hopefully CLAP will be implemented in it and plugin developers adopt the format. Then as a Linux user I'll be able to use it to create music, rather than having to use Windows or jump through hoops to get VSTs to work like I do now.
What I want is a unified patch management/preview system so i can do all the patch browsing from inside the DAW. I suppose a bit like nks but open source so you don't have the ruddy islands of data like now ... arturia world, NI world, omnisphere world. Once we have that then we can build hardware UIs for patch browsing and get away from messing about with mice and screen UIs just to browse sounds.
Cool! I sure hope this gains widespread traction. We need far more Open Source in all areas. The problem is that too many users lazily rely on proprietary products. It is not even possible to get schools to work with Libre Office. Too many people insist that they want to throw money at Microsoft (on a yearly basis, no less!). I hope that audio nerds will prove wiser.
Sorry I'm late - YT keeps scrambling my subs but I still check in because of good information like this. Great production, entertaining topics/subjects, solid information about new technical things and tools...what's not to like? Thanks again for your time and effort to publish quality content for people of discerning taste. :-)
Time to get more into bitwig I guess. I kept meaning to change from FL to bitwig or Ableton but I might just move towards bitwig with this new plugin echosystem
While there are still a few great features Ableton has that Bitwig doesn't (e.g., audio to midi, integrated video tracks), I find myself using Bitwig for almost everything. The modulation workflow and The Grid just get my experimental side going in a way that Ableton typically doesn't do. The Bitwig people have been consistently been adding new functionality at an impressive rate, so those other things will likely show up eventually. Coming from FL to either will be daunting as hell at first, but if you put in the effort you will absolutely be rewarded.
Thank you for mentioning LV2 the true underdog of the audio plugin world! In the developing OSS audio side LV2 has been usually the "go-to" plugin format which has tendency of just working if the option is available. It's interesting to see if CLAP provides an alternative with similar freedom but is appealing enough to get commercial support as well...
You mentioned LV2. I love my MOD Dwarf which runs LV2. I feel like there should be a plan for any new software plugin format for running on hardware devices such as guitar pedals, eurorack modules, synthesizers etc. What I wouldn't give for an analog poly like the Deepmind but with support for open source plugins.
I've been looking for a way to move to Linux for everything for ages, and the lack of compatibility with most VSTs was one of the last things holding me back. Really hoping it takes off and allows me to leave windows forever!
Developers that don't support Linux now will not change their mind just because of this plugin format. VST2 and VST3 can be built for Linux just fine, but many developers just don't want to go through the effort. It really is a `chicken-v-egg` problem since I read statements like yours a lot "if only there was more support for Linux I would use it" vs developers "nobody uses Linux so we don't support it".
@@sebaszwarc Why surprised? open development and communities VS fully closed and locked down everything. The two environments couldn't be more different.
Thanks for posting this. I'm a bitwig user but kind of switched off to this news as it seemed complicated and not relevant to me. It's actualy interesting thanks.
2:20 didnt mention lv2 format which is free and opensource too, got metadata and universal presets format...some daw's (i.e. reaper) supports it already
Clap is slang for gonorrhoea, I hope that's intentional. There are also JS plugins. I use them all the time in Reaper, some are very advanced, with fancy GUI, it's bit weird you didn't mention them.
I'm looking forward towards Clap. So many people are grumpy towards Clap, although they've never tested it themselves. The performance boost is a game-changer by itself. So: stop being grumpy, people and let's support and talk about it. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Just discovered CLAP because I installed Bitwig on my new Mac Studio instead of Cubase (just Bitwig 8track for now). I'm already quite impressed with Bitwig, and it's great to see them embracing new ideas in plugin technology. Since CLAP supports optimisation for multicore CPUs, how about future compatibility with things like the new GPU Audio as well? Would that be possible, or is that using its own proprietary platform? I don't know the tech details.
Maybe there will be hope for a package manager with this. Nothing worse than importing old projects on a new machine/env and having to dive into the dependency spaghetti... blowing dust off old harddrives looking for the specific versions of VSTs that I need.
As an android user, I have high hopes for the future. Steinberg released cubasis for android and we are sorely left behind in the area of plugins. I hope that CLAP gets adopted for android. There's some independent coders trying to create a new standard for android called AAP but the development is at a crawling pace right now.
I am always happy about more efficiency! Since I have a furnace of an 8 core/16 thread CPU in my machine anyway, why not utilize its full potential? I would really love for CLAP to take off the ground and HOPEFULLY Ableton will jump aboard as well (please don't make me switch DAWs again -.-). Great video^^
I just hope it can have backwards compatibility because one thing I hate is how none of my music software has vst3 compatibility, and I don't want a whole other group of unusable plugins thanks to a new format. It would be optimal for everything to have full built-in support for the new format, but that simply won't happen.
MPE is an open, published MIDI protocol standard for expressive control communications. Calling MPE a non-standard seems an egregious error and is misleading information. Still, thank you for the presentation on CLAP. I'm thrilled to finally see an Open Source plugin standard specifically supporting Polyphonic Expression and the open MPE standard, especially since I Just acquired a Linnstrument and an associated BitWig license. :-) I've also recently returned to programming interests and the opportunity to create new music tools as a means of refreshing my skills and learn new languages like RUST is also very exciting.
Well, in reality MPE is implemented so different from manufacturer to manufacture mr and DAW to DAW that it’s not standard at all. When I worked on MPE support for my plugin Fundamental two years back that became quickly apparent. So I speak from experience.
@@Hainbach Thanks for the explanation of your view. I've just started digging into the MPE specs fpr a device project and appreciate being forewarned of potential inconsistencies.
ImSO exited for your new BAND ! - the 3 absolutely biggest utubular balls bearing, most interesting eclectic electronic , high and low voltage , youtube musicians on youtube , - Come to Copenhagen please !
Great vid. Personally i am learning the power of minimalism and connecton. Solid points but seriously...if you are using search to locate a plugin, i would recommend reading some neuroscience about our amazing brain...and left vs right, creativity etc...too many options get in the way
In my opinion the biggest problems with plugins today is the hazzle of downloading, authorize, remember where I have all my presets/samples and keep all plugins up to date. If someone can fix that, then I'm in.
@@benjiusofficial Waves audio is the most greedy company in the Plugin business. They sell the plugins cheap and then want full price for an update one year later.
me looking at the preview " not another youtuber with miracle plugins " .... then i notice it's Hainbach .. so i click the video at the speed of light . Also me " it's got multi-core support ... yadda yadda yadda ... cut me some slack " .... then "it's open source " ... my lid is blown in microseconds as i hit that like and subscribe button
Ableton didn't add AUv3 support on the mac till the current beta, so maybe they will add this format before the end of the decade. There is one benefit if you use iPad/iPhone and have AUv3 plugins there the developers can allow cross platform access so you don't have to buy everything twice. I don't know if a new format will ever come to apple mobile devices.
Wow. How many years do you think it’s going to take to make CLAP a standard as VST is right now? It sounds very promising, and the multi-core feature makes it sound like the best I’ve hear in plug-in formats.
@@Hainbach Live is pretty dead when it comes to innovation and new technologies. They have insane problems under the hood (latency issues are so insane, it has actually become unusable for me). Just look at how long it took them to implement VST3. Switching to Bitwig was one of the best choices I ever made. This DAW is absolutely incredible.
"...Right now, there are 3 main plugin formats...", and FYI there's also a 4th one which is MAS (Motu Audio System). Motu is a company that makes audio interfaces and a DAW called Digital Performer. Just my 2 cents....
Imagine a future where every DAW supports CLAP and every plugin dev only has to publish one plugin format. Imagine how much more efficient they could be at putting plugins out - no longer having to code and test multiple formats in multiple DAWs on multiple platforms. Instead, just a single format in each daw / platform combo.
I know this adds an other layer but what about a free plugin-host plugin for running the Clap plugins? (a kinda "rosetta") This plugin-host being in AU, VST or AAX formats and consequently running on all the classic DAWs. It could be a way to promote the format in the first times and if the clap format is realy CPU efficient it could compensate this additional layer.
In the clap team we’ve discussed “wrappers” both ways (abc runninf in a clap and clap running in an abc). We even have some early versions of these coming together. There’s some technical complexity with some of them and of course you end up with the feature set of the least capable format (for instance if your target format doesn’t support non destructive modulation then wrapping a clap in that format means you won’t get non destructive modulation). But yeah the various forms of wrapper layers are underway!
@@baconpaul5772 Thank you for your reply 👍🏻. (A little bit too technical for me, I must say, I'm just a musician after all. "abc runninf" and the problems caused by "non-destructive modulation" are ancient Greek for me. But If I make it in layman's words it seems that my poor idea was a possibility among other)
yeah, I am with you but all these "restrictions" for example in VST3 are exactly the factor that make all DAWs implementing standards properly (like most DAWs on var OSes) which is a very good thing. open source is nice - but take a look at linux and the distro-chaos - it will not standardize and exactly that (in your view limitation) is what is needed to make things work together IF implemented right. I get you - don't get me wrong. But beeing open-as-fnck never ended in usablility and smooth co-operation.
Any words for GPU.Audio? It's proprietary but could be also a game changer. Using the GPU means almost any cheap computer would become from x40 to x100 times more powerful for audio production. It uses GPUs multicore (like CLAP with the CPU) and GPU dedicated memory.
I understand that gpu audio is just a way to process audio plugin compute resource off the cpu. The gpu audio guys are free to build their plugins as Clap plugins..
Wires 1.2 Update and 40% off SALE: www.audiothing.net/effects/wires/
Best way to support Hainbach is to support yourself. I just picked this up! Thank you!
Once something becomes open source and can build something that actually runs using open compilers then it will probably build/run on Linux at the least and Linux is very well behaved inside of virtualization even if you really can't support another system for Linux/CLAP testing only (if you don't already have a Linux box laying around). Just being open source makes it *super* accessible. I would watch out to see if there is going to be an adoption by other open DAW platforms/frameworks or even distros being released that "just set it up" and make it nice for users who just want to use the tool without spending as much time on system twiddling, dependency resolution, and package hunting.
Damn jetzt hast mich.
Hello! I have a question does clap as an format still in beta, or is out of beta?
As a Bitwig Linux user, I'm especially juiced to see bigger plugin developers start making plugins usable on Linux and Bitwig
Not going to happen. Those that don't support Linux now will not suddenly make the change because of this format.
(I'm in the same boat, but I just put the money where it's worth and only buy software from vendors that support my platform)
I agree with @AMTunLimited
Same! There are many plugins that I'd love to try but can't right now.
@@yethiel You could use `yabridge` that can run Windows plugins via Wine. However it's an extra hassle; not everything works; is generally unsupported; won't work with things like iLok obviously; won't be as performant as native.
I certainly wouldn't spend money on any software and then "hope" that it will run with such a solution. Maybe for freeware plugins that's OK to try them, but for all other cases I'd recommend to just stick to native.
I agree, unfortunately most plug-ins are written used Juce that fully supports Linux already but many plug-in developers don’t care. I think this is a good “standard” except that it isn’t a standard.
the guys at u-he are brilliant and i'm glad they're leading the charge. VST is a dinosaur, the transition to VST3 has been a disaster, and the SDK license is incredibly silly. the fact that one company holds most of the music production world in its hand is the worst possible outcome in every way. other opensource alternatives have attempted to step in, but they always lacked any staying power due to poor adoption and organization between developers. i hope CLAP will be different in that regard.
It's a SynthEdit for the modern era! :D
Sadly I can tell you it wont. What you stated as an issue with Linux projects... Poor Adoption will exist here. #1 search for CLAP is an STD and people turn around, They need a better name or adoption will not happen.
@@ZoomyCat A: grow a sense of humor.
B: I think the immediate connotations of most people would be clapping your hands together
@@segfault-berlin So SEO is about humor? Huh, I did not know that. Good to know.
I hope the search engines can keep up with your false expectation.
LMAO
Oh shit its emma essex
I never thought I'd say this, I can't wait until I get the CLAP!
Really hoping it's not the final name for it😳. Please makers, pick KICK, HAT, or anything else and make a backronym to fit.
@@undulations get over it. Who even calls it "the clap" anymore?
@@tissuepaper9962 You are a SO right- they should call it the Gonorrhea instead!
😂😂😂
With Windows 11 being what it is, it makes sense to focus development of software to be Linux compatible.
As a Linux user a lot about CLAP feels like LV2 in a lot of ways. Many of the things CLAP brings like the forced separation between UI threads and the sound DSP threading and hell even explicit multi-threading support is all ready in LV2 as either part of the core spec or as part of one of the common extensions. But one place where CLAP all ready shows a lot more potential is adoption while LV2 in theory could be supported outside of Linux it's basically non existent out side of the Linux ecosystem for either desktop or embedded devices.
LV2 is actually what underpins a few effects units on the market all ready like the Mod Devices pedals and units and the stuff from Poly Effects as well as quietly being used internally for some synths that use Linux as the internal host software. But this brings me to one of the biggest cruxes with Linux for audio work in general, while very powerful and often used for stand alone devices desktop support and adoption for audio has always been an issue. All though I do have to say having Bitwig on Linux and Reaper both has been a big thing for world of Linux Pro audio.
EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention is I know a lot of the core people around LV2 and that have been keeping it alive and well thriving in it's little corner are involved with CLAP and it's planned to basically be the eventual successor to the LV2 format on Linux as the native first plugin choice. This IMO is a big deal as it will open up a rather large world of open source LV2 plugins to a wider audience and I mean there is a reason why some people have bought stuff like from the likes of Mod Devices just to simply get their hands on some of the effects that exist in LV2's little world.
Thanks for that insight!
@@Hainbach Yeah any one following the Linux pro audio circles has been aware of CLAP for years now as initial work on the technical spec started like 4-5 years ago or better as a way to address some of the issues around LV2 and it's frankly slightly odd governance structure.
It's not theory. Reaper, Ardour, Mixbus, Carla, Mixxx, JUCE7, and many more, already support LV2 fully cross-platform. Somehow people think that the L stands for Linux and then assume it won't run anywhere else.
Not like the L in CLAP stands for Linux. It's just a letter.
Btw I LOVE my MOD units and the flexibility that LV2 plugins offer. CLAP is still quite far removed from achieving the LV2 adoption and functionality though. I don't see many porting their LV2 plugins to CLAP any time soon. With something like MOD you have to port the entire Host and modgui system as well. Somewhat unlikely, but one can always send a pull-request to make it happen!
Thanks for providing that info - that's great news about LV2 succession!
I'd forgotten all about that platform ☹️ I used to dabble in Linux occasionally, each time I retired a Windows machine, and I work as a developer so I know a lot of Linux users but I've been on Mac for 10 years just for the easy life. That's a really insightful comment though!
Exciting! Per note modulation-stuff really is the future! If we can’t have jetpacks, at least we should be able to easily automate individual notes
This is really cool! I saw Cockos on the list. I wouldn't be surprised if they're one of the ones to get on board early. Would be lovely to see Ableton on the list.
If uhe are in on this you know it's gonna be epic
Absolutely, a legend.
Awesome! What a great way to move forward - I'm excited to see how CLAP develops. I hope it gets wide adoption!
Very interresting. Wasnt aware of CLAP. sounds like this could become the new standard
Reaper is adopting CLAP compatibility
An open AND open-source standard is a really great thing to have. The fact that it's bleeding edge is also really cool because it's made with modern systems in mind and can therefor better utilize the available resources much better which, as you already mentioned, means you can run more plugins at once. Adoption of new formats is always rather slow especially in such a big industry like music production. But once more people start to see the benefits of CLAP, more and more people will get onboard. As with every new and promising technology, it's only a matter of time before it gets adopted. I mean, VST wasn't immediately adopted by everyone either I'm pretty sure.
I bought Wires based on this. I'd been thinking about it for a while, but this pushed me over the edge. I already own a lot of other Audiothing plugins, and I really hope they start porting the rest of them to this new framework.
Love your mood and energy, mate.
I really hope this new CLAP format will also include GPU audio support, which is another huge thing for software sound production
It does not and those efforts are not related in any way.
@@_DRMR_ surprisingly they can be related, and if some extensions need to be added to CLAP, it's possible to pull off. first of all, I think main problem GPU Audio will face is having a way to manage GPU task scheduling across different instances and plugins that would use it. and CLAP could have a way of solving that better than existing plugin API's do currently, in same way it can let host schedule multi-threading.
A few of us have been talking to the gpu audio folks but they are “different” things. Think about clap as the collaboration layer between a host and a plugin whereas gpu usage is more how to make your dsp use the gpu subsystem. Maybe (maybe) a clap extension like the cpu thread pool could help but by being extensible, there’s nothing stopping that happening today.
@@baconpaul5772 Sure, but right now there are no developer resources available for gpu audio and it's likely to be a proprietary extension. Which imo as a "platform" is much less interesting for developers to invest in. "you can do everything with an extension" of course, but that doesn't necessarily mean you should ;)
@@_DRMR_ I have not had a chance to dive in deeply to what the folks are doing yeah. But we believe their work should work with clap although is at a different point in the stack indeed.
Bedankt
Always love watching your videos. And I get deja vu when I see the HP tone generators that I recognize for my practice lessons when I was learing to be a electrician in the 1980's. Using them as an audio oscilator was always more fun than testing electronic circuits with them :-)
Thank you so much!
The clap spread in the past, so they might be onto something. 😜
Yeah, it might even go viral! 😝
@@Hainbach Haha, yeah.
I didn't read the rest of the comments, but I'm person 400 to make this same joke, right?
Damn! You stole my joke. I should blame YT for not showing this video on my feed any earlier. Maybe it thought it was a medicine video. Now, we wait for the 'applause' and cowbell jokes...
Absolutely LOVE it... Love AUDIOTHING.. and LOVE HAINBACH!
Onward and Upward!
Good to see that you are supporting it. CLAP seems like the right direction. Hopefully the big DAWs will become compatibile with their next updates
Extremely excited about open source trying to crack the plugin problem.
I APPLAUD the concept of CLAP 😜
Just downloaded the update. I use Harrison Mixbus 32C which is based on the open source Ardour DAW so hopefully CLAP will be implemented in it and plugin developers adopt the format. Then as a Linux user I'll be able to use it to create music, rather than having to use Windows or jump through hoops to get VSTs to work like I do now.
What I want is a unified patch management/preview system so i can do all the patch browsing from inside the DAW. I suppose a bit like nks but open source so you don't have the ruddy islands of data like now ... arturia world, NI world, omnisphere world.
Once we have that then we can build hardware UIs for patch browsing and get away from messing about with mice and screen UIs just to browse sounds.
Cool! I sure hope this gains widespread traction. We need far more Open Source in all areas. The problem is that too many users lazily rely on proprietary products. It is not even possible to get schools to work with Libre Office. Too many people insist that they want to throw money at Microsoft (on a yearly basis, no less!). I hope that audio nerds will prove wiser.
Ambient Daddy bringing us good news
Sorry I'm late - YT keeps scrambling my subs but I still check in because of good information like this.
Great production, entertaining topics/subjects, solid information about new technical things and tools...what's not to like?
Thanks again for your time and effort to publish quality content for people of discerning taste. :-)
Time to get more into bitwig I guess. I kept meaning to change from FL to bitwig or Ableton but I might just move towards bitwig with this new plugin echosystem
While there are still a few great features Ableton has that Bitwig doesn't (e.g., audio to midi, integrated video tracks), I find myself using Bitwig for almost everything. The modulation workflow and The Grid just get my experimental side going in a way that Ableton typically doesn't do. The Bitwig people have been consistently been adding new functionality at an impressive rate, so those other things will likely show up eventually.
Coming from FL to either will be daunting as hell at first, but if you put in the effort you will absolutely be rewarded.
@@danlwarren Ehh? We can use integrated video tracks? Since when?
I've been learning Cubase specifically because of video integration.
@@benjiusofficial I was saying that Bitwig actually can't do video, but Ableton can (unless I"m mistaken).
ive never wanted the clap so badly
thanks for the video! I look forward to seeing where this goes - it doesn't hurt that I've got Bitwig and Wires already.
Thanks! Also, I dig the shirt!
Me cradling my lv2s: "don't worry, you're part of the big 3 in my eyes"
Bitwig and u-he joining forces is kinda sick ngl, hope they continue to work together on other things.
Thank you for mentioning LV2 the true underdog of the audio plugin world!
In the developing OSS audio side LV2 has been usually the "go-to" plugin format which has tendency of just working if the option is available. It's interesting to see if CLAP provides an alternative with similar freedom but is appealing enough to get commercial support as well...
Good on them for building it with open source. I'll definitely adopt it.
You mentioned LV2. I love my MOD Dwarf which runs LV2. I feel like there should be a plan for any new software plugin format for running on hardware devices such as guitar pedals, eurorack modules, synthesizers etc. What I wouldn't give for an analog poly like the Deepmind but with support for open source plugins.
I've been looking for a way to move to Linux for everything for ages, and the lack of compatibility with most VSTs was one of the last things holding me back. Really hoping it takes off and allows me to leave windows forever!
Developers that don't support Linux now will not change their mind just because of this plugin format. VST2 and VST3 can be built for Linux just fine, but many developers just don't want to go through the effort. It really is a `chicken-v-egg` problem since I read statements like yours a lot "if only there was more support for Linux I would use it" vs developers "nobody uses Linux so we don't support it".
@@_DRMR_ it's more like a "chicken keeps pecking open the eggs" problem, so many companies have actively conspired against FOSS over the years.
That not going to happen. I am surprised someone can prefer Linux over Mac
@@sebaszwarc Why surprised? open development and communities VS fully closed and locked down everything. The two environments couldn't be more different.
Very exciting, I hope this will take off the way it should
Thanks for posting this. I'm a bitwig user but kind of switched off to this news as it seemed complicated and not relevant to me. It's actualy interesting thanks.
About time this happened. I really hope it catches on.
Hopefully this can be great for Linux support.
@hainbach I just bought wires. Wish they would do a package deal for all your Hainbach plugins. I would insta-buy.
2:20 didnt mention lv2 format which is free and opensource too, got metadata and universal presets format...some daw's (i.e. reaper) supports it already
And you did not watch the video to end before commenting. :-)
rekt
Clap is slang for gonorrhoea, I hope that's intentional. There are also JS plugins. I use them all the time in Reaper, some are very advanced, with fancy GUI, it's bit weird you didn't mention them.
Those are exclusive to Reaper, so by default very niche. There is no place in the video where talking about them would make sense.
@@Hainbach Oh, ok. I thought that was a format other DAWs can implement too.
I'm looking forward towards Clap. So many people are grumpy towards Clap, although they've never tested it themselves. The performance boost is a game-changer by itself. So: stop being grumpy, people and let's support and talk about it.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Just discovered CLAP because I installed Bitwig on my new Mac Studio instead of Cubase (just Bitwig 8track for now). I'm already quite impressed with Bitwig, and it's great to see them embracing new ideas in plugin technology. Since CLAP supports optimisation for multicore CPUs, how about future compatibility with things like the new GPU Audio as well? Would that be possible, or is that using its own proprietary platform? I don't know the tech details.
Maybe there will be hope for a package manager with this. Nothing worse than importing old projects on a new machine/env and having to dive into the dependency spaghetti... blowing dust off old harddrives looking for the specific versions of VSTs that I need.
As an android user, I have high hopes for the future. Steinberg released cubasis for android and we are sorely left behind in the area of plugins. I hope that CLAP gets adopted for android. There's some independent coders trying to create a new standard for android called AAP but the development is at a crawling pace right now.
Wow Sounds great !
Wow, pretty big deal! Thank you for the explanation
Awesome news, thanks for the breakdown and for getting the ball rolling with Wires!!🙌🏼
I am always happy about more efficiency! Since I have a furnace of an 8 core/16 thread CPU in my machine anyway, why not utilize its full potential?
I would really love for CLAP to take off the ground and HOPEFULLY Ableton will jump aboard as well (please don't make me switch DAWs again -.-).
Great video^^
Bitwig 4.3 released today with full CLAP support :)
Love me an open format, should be good for everyone involved. Except maybe my old projects if I have to keep all my old plugin formats installed.
I just hope it can have backwards compatibility because one thing I hate is how none of my music software has vst3 compatibility, and I don't want a whole other group of unusable plugins thanks to a new format. It would be optimal for everything to have full built-in support for the new format, but that simply won't happen.
Linux versions of your plugins would be awesome. Maybe that would also be an option in the future?
If only. Have been bugging Audio Thing for a long time but they are just not willing to support our OS.
I second this!
This is exciting news. Better multi core support and open license are two things the world needs more of. :)
MPE is an open, published MIDI protocol standard for expressive control communications. Calling MPE a non-standard seems an egregious error and is misleading information. Still, thank you for the presentation on CLAP. I'm thrilled to finally see an Open Source plugin standard specifically supporting Polyphonic Expression and the open MPE standard, especially since I Just acquired a Linnstrument and an associated BitWig license. :-) I've also recently returned to programming interests and the opportunity to create new music tools as a means of refreshing my skills and learn new languages like RUST is also very exciting.
Well, in reality MPE is implemented so different from manufacturer to manufacture mr and DAW to DAW that it’s not standard at all. When I worked on MPE support for my plugin Fundamental two years back that became quickly apparent. So I speak from experience.
@@Hainbach Thanks for the explanation of your view. I've just started digging into the MPE specs fpr a device project and appreciate being forewarned of potential inconsistencies.
DAS IST ETWAS WAS ICH BRAUCHE !!!
OPEN SOURCE WILL RULE THE WORLD!
If a developer really wants to make innovation . Developing a plugin format for Android is the way of the future from a the current view of things.
ImSO exited for your new BAND ! - the 3 absolutely biggest utubular balls bearing, most interesting eclectic electronic , high and low voltage , youtube musicians on youtube , - Come to Copenhagen please !
is lv2 not the first open source plugin format?
Great vid. Personally i am learning the power of minimalism and connecton. Solid points but seriously...if you are using search to locate a plugin, i would recommend reading some neuroscience about our amazing brain...and left vs right, creativity etc...too many options get in the way
In my opinion the biggest problems with plugins today is the hazzle of downloading, authorize, remember where I have all my presets/samples and keep all plugins up to date. If someone can fix that, then I'm in.
Thanks, izotope (and waves), very cool.
@@benjiusofficial Waves audio is the most greedy company in the Plugin business. They sell the plugins cheap and then want full price for an update one year later.
Bin mal gespannt wie es Presous umsetzen wird, FL nutze ich auch seit 2002 heute jedoch recht selten...freue mich aber sehr auf CLAP
me looking at the preview " not another youtuber with miracle plugins " .... then i notice it's Hainbach .. so i click the video at the speed of light . Also me " it's got multi-core support ... yadda yadda yadda ... cut me some slack " .... then "it's open source " ... my lid is blown in microseconds as i hit that like and subscribe button
Just switched all my plugins for clap
if enough developers start using it, this will be an absolute game changer...
I hope to get the CLAP too
Ableton didn't add AUv3 support on the mac till the current beta, so maybe they will add this format before the end of the decade. There is one benefit if you use iPad/iPhone and have AUv3 plugins there the developers can allow cross platform access so you don't have to buy everything twice. I don't know if a new format will ever come to apple mobile devices.
Haven't LADSPA and LV2 been around for a looong time?
I hope for a quick and total adoption 👏👏👏
Wow. How many years do you think it’s going to take to make CLAP a standard as VST is right now? It sounds very promising, and the multi-core feature makes it sound like the best I’ve hear in plug-in formats.
If Avid implements it as their interest suggests, or Epic Games, it will spread fast. Would love to see it in Live myself.
@@Hainbach I wouldn't count on Live adopting it anytime soon. It took forever to support VST3s...
@@Hainbach Live is pretty dead when it comes to innovation and new technologies. They have insane problems under the hood (latency issues are so insane, it has actually become unusable for me). Just look at how long it took them to implement VST3.
Switching to Bitwig was one of the best choices I ever made. This DAW is absolutely incredible.
Great. Do we rent these ones too? "You will own nothing and you will be happy"
This is great and all but truly most of us have their eyes on the dsp using graphics cards which will be a huge game changer out of the gate.
"...Right now, there are 3 main plugin formats...", and FYI there's also a 4th one which is MAS (Motu Audio System). Motu is a company that makes audio interfaces and a DAW called Digital Performer. Just my 2 cents....
True, but is not a main plugin format, it’s niche. It’s limited to one platform and hardly anyone develops for it.
Imagine a future where every DAW supports CLAP and every plugin dev only has to publish one plugin format. Imagine how much more efficient they could be at putting plugins out - no longer having to code and test multiple formats in multiple DAWs on multiple platforms. Instead, just a single format in each daw / platform combo.
I know this adds an other layer but what about a free plugin-host plugin for running the Clap plugins? (a kinda "rosetta")
This plugin-host being in AU, VST or AAX formats and consequently running on all the classic DAWs. It could be a way to promote the format in the first times and if the clap format is realy CPU efficient it could compensate this additional layer.
In the clap team we’ve discussed “wrappers” both ways (abc runninf in a clap and clap running in an abc). We even have some early versions of these coming together. There’s some technical complexity with some of them and of course you end up with the feature set of the least capable format (for instance if your target format doesn’t support non destructive modulation then wrapping a clap in that format means you won’t get non destructive modulation). But yeah the various forms of wrapper layers are underway!
@@baconpaul5772 Thank you for your reply 👍🏻.
(A little bit too technical for me, I must say, I'm just a musician after all. "abc runninf" and the problems caused by "non-destructive modulation" are ancient Greek for me. But If I make it in layman's words it seems that my poor idea was a possibility among other)
Lets hope this kick off better than Midi 2.0...
yeah, I am with you but all these "restrictions" for example in VST3 are exactly the factor that make all DAWs implementing standards properly (like most DAWs on var OSes) which is a very good thing. open source is nice - but take a look at linux and the distro-chaos - it will not standardize and exactly that (in your view limitation) is what is needed to make things work together IF implemented right. I get you - don't get me wrong. But beeing open-as-fnck never ended in usablility and smooth co-operation.
The thing I don‘t get yet: How can I use a Clap-compatible plugin in Logic?
Logic does not support it yet. So you need to use the AU version.
Thanks, Hainbach. Unfortunately I can't imagine Apple enabling Clap-support. I wish you all the best with it!
I love wires!
the new standard means nothing if it is not compatible with windows xp and 32 bit DAWs. will I be able to port all of my synthedit plugins over to it?
You need to create a second version of the plugin, and call it Clap Back
clap for clap!
use a little plugins as possible, learn them thoroughly. chose the best and cut the rest. best approach
Open source it the way.
Yaaayyy.
Yeah but when do we get jet packs
I am personally waiting for then parasail from Breath Of The Wild.
Haven't a lot of musicians already got the clap?
Nice
will clap work with midi 2.0?
I ditched Bitwig Studio a while back. Their subscription pricing is predatory. Its nearly $280 nzd per year.
Hainbach is using Bitwig now? :)
3:20 what's the 2nd vst named there? it's hard to make out what was said.
Crazy Ivan
@@Hainbach Thank you!
long live clap
Any words for GPU.Audio? It's proprietary but could be also a game changer.
Using the GPU means almost any cheap computer would become from x40 to x100 times more powerful for audio production. It uses GPUs multicore (like CLAP with the CPU) and GPU dedicated memory.
I understand that gpu audio is just a way to process audio plugin compute resource off the cpu. The gpu audio guys are free to build their plugins as Clap plugins..
Being proprietary means it can never be a standard. All the hype around it is really just that: hype.
Hey Zynaptiq......PLEASE get on the bandwagon...Adaptiverb: the granite slab in my DAW.
they really lucked out with that acronym
Also check GPU AUDIO