It’s impressive how a player who is not a world class level could explain so well such a complex sport as if he’s a world class player. Which means that the ability to speak well is more important than the skill level you have. I think that is the essence of what great coaches are about. Keep it up Tom, you are doing an amazing job!
I have got a double profit from your channel. I don't only learn how to play table tennis properly but I also practice my listening skills in English. Thanks a lot, Tom!
hahaha, this was completely me yesterday at the local club's weekly tournament. Literally everything you said in this video applies to me. Getting stuck in these pushing rallies, the "I cannot topspin the ball because it is too low and short". The funny thing is whenever this happens to me I always tell myself that I should be more aggressive when I play, but always end up falling into the same habit of endlessly pushing once again. This video was really helpful. I will try to implement those tips in next week's tournament. Thanks a lot.
Dear Tom, I find your videos very interesting. Your explanations are so clear because you speak very slowly to make other understand by your stroke action. Great...
Another brilliant video, thanks :) But, I think you are underplaying the importance of the needed quality of the opening loop. I find that if my opening loop is too weak (too slow, and/or high and/or w too little spin) then the other player will often go in and attack it directly and I lose the point. In my experience the opening loop needs to be of quite good quality before this works.
Thanks Tom. I use to have a couple of friends who are 99% pushers. It's really awful to play against them. Very nice tips wright here. A big hug from Lima.
Good video. Last Wednesday I had to play against two players who always pushed the ball, this was really annoying for me, because I am a player who wants to attack. Their pushes had a lot of backspin, therefore, it was difficult for me to attack these balls with a hard topspin. Later I started to push back, but with less backspin, then I waited push, push and push and eventually there came a ball along with less backspin and then I attacked hard and won most of the rallies.
Really this tip is very helpful... Thanks... I come across many just pushing players n it's so frustrating to keep returning... Top spin ... Let me try....
Being a low-level club player I´ve played, and still play, a lot of pushing rallies. I think that part of the problem is that the strategy to push is a fairly strong local maximum: Initially looping heavy pushes can be error-prone, and poor loops can easily lead to an immediately losing topspin rally: If the loop is too slow, too high, or too predicably directed (or even all three), then even low-level club players will respond with a counterloop or smash. You still have to loop to learn it, but it can be definitely turn out to be a longterm investment. For me, looping increases the variance a lot against both weaker players (bad) and strong players (good). Against players around my rating it definitely decreases my winning chances, but in 1 or 2 years (or 5 or 10 or ...) I hope that that will change.
How true :-( I am a fairly strong pusher and struggle with getting out of those pushing rallies. In the short term it's less risky to stay pushing and lure the other into attempting and failing at a topspin attack. It's a local maximum, and a dead end. I need to break the circle of pushing, without loosing to the inevitable topspin return. Hope to get there sooner than later.
Great video. I do not enjoy push rallies. When I receive a long push I can usually convert to a topspin return. Short push shots opens up severe angles for where opponent can place ball that can be very hard to get to. I try to execute a flick on short pushes but executing a successful flick is still problematic for me.
...difficult to imagine people who can not get out of the pushing have the right to complain they are not sufficiently "entertained" at the tables.... I personal think pushing and defensive playing is a nice and graceful and an elegant way to enjoy table tennis at any level... the situation you are describing is like a boxer complaining why he is being hit and not cuddled instead... :-) Nice vid anyway. Highlights the types of players to avoid - those who complain too much.
Yeah, I don't like playing against that player type. Same with people that lob when you get them away from the table. Also, congrats on the 200k subs (not sure when it happened 😅)!
Very helpful video. Important for me to have correct height of body. I did that wrong so was my stroke. Probably cause I am long and tend to stay like a pillar
I play as chop pusher. I chop and push and block. Those are my three strong tools. Chop,push and block. Lots and lots of backspin. Nightmare for the oponents. Indoor they have some chance. Outdoor get destroyed. Push chops are so sharp and so low that oponents must put a lot of topspin to counter. But they over the table or short in net. How low? Redicilously low. First bounce on oponent side is quarter of the net height. And ball lands second time on the oponent side. Second bounce is lower than that. Variable shot placement. Variable speed, Also i can slow down the fast paced game to slow motion. Indoor cant do that to such extent because roof is too low and not much space to move around the table. Only one method works vs me. To lift the ball up so the ball bounce high in my side. If i miss the attack point for you. Plus i have to chop push from much higher bounce. But i put also lots of sidespin on the push chops so even top heavy spinners dont perform very well...
Definitely a goto if you're looking to move from Amateur to Intermediate. "BUT": Going from Intermediate to Intermediate-Pro-ish => You have GOT to be ready for that return after your top spin because it will come, and it will come fast. While looping is an important skill, it creates a time delay long enough for intermediate players to start swinging (unless your top spins are Ma Long-fast). At an higher level you cannot expect your opponent to return that top spin High or Slow. Serving long top spin is also a way to 99%-guarantee that it will comeback in a non-pushy mode.
Funny...NC legend..and hall of Famer Gregg Robertshaw...defiantly serves ball with fast topspin! 😃🏓no double bounce serves for him! He loves a topspin fight! Starts each point...and sets table for just such a fight! Awesome to watch!
Long topspin can be chopped though it’s not push it’s still the same principal and older player might still uses that slow equipment that are able to return short any shot short of smash, I have one in my club and it’s very different than playing other players. Short return are the one that hard to push without bouncing up.
Short pimples need not be an obstacle. I have played against players with short pimples who drive through the backspin. You have to get the timing just right, but it is possible.
Luckily, it is not easy to get my temper short if I face a pusher. I just receive with a push - preferably a thin contact, very precise one, which is hard to attack (but only, when I see, that the push was of too good quality to attack right at that moment), but I vary the direction and add sidespin to the push on the follow up receives if I want to mix up the positioning of the opponent, so I can get a weaker receive, which I attempt to attack with a topspin shot.
thanks for the video. i have a little question, how do you do to return in the best stance or position and unleash the next topspin shot that is very fast , so the ball too return fast enough.
When you are going for the switch to a top spin stroke, is it a combination of bat angle and up stroke or is it mostly a powerful upstroke aimed at the sky? Or a third option, I have no clue what I'm talking about, its neither
At its most basic, you straighten your bat angle and move it up vertically, brushing the back of the ball. If you can get this bit right, you can attack a backspin ball. There are lots of other elements which will make the shot better - how you use your legs, your core, your elbow and your wrist. But get the bat angle and swing trajectory right first and then develop the other stuff later.
@@MrPDTaylor Sorry, forgot to reply. The only thing that I can add to Tom's response is that it's just physics. The ball rotates away from you, so you have to "aim higher". You do this by making spin (=friction), and instead of hitting straight onto the ball you make thin contact with your rubber
There is another category of players who play flat or no-spin ball mostly oldmen amateurs or players with cooked rubber. After first bounce ball dives low like topspin ball and shortens length like backspin. Looks like fast attack before bounce and very weak energy ball after bounce, so you are in semi-position: you expected long ball but have to drive short ball. I've learned to attack backspin, topspin, even long no-spin balls. But i am not able to play that short no-spin balls. Do you have any ideas or any video on that?
For the short no-spin balls, you can use flicks. You won't need to lift the ball that much, as there is no spin, so your flick will be more forwards than up. I don't have a specific video on this, but I will add it to me list.
I really do struggle with a player who allways pushes with insane backspin. Most of his shots are double bouncers, so this tactic does not seem to work. I can control the backspin decently, but my returns allways ends up in the middle, easy to psuh with even more backspin. How can I disrupt his play?
Unless this player has the most amazing touch, I bet most of his pushes are not double bouncers. If you push deep on his side, his return push will almost always only bounce once. There's an interesting perception test I do with players I coach. I will ask them to call out whether my push will bounce once or twice. To begin with they always call it incorrectly. They think it will bounce twice, then they are amazed how the ball actually drifts and the second bounce is past the end of the table. 95% of pushes are like this. They appear short and low, but in reality very few will bounce twice.
Ok I tried but it didnt work! He has so much spin so I just cant controll it without pushing back. Also he mixes up with a kick serve thats enable him to controll the play. I guess I have to practice my topspin more...
@@robertalexanderson829s Tom said, most of pushes are loopable, especially in begginer/intermediate lvl. Keep practicing 3th ball attack from backspin and you’ll see results. Another tip is develop backhand flip from over the table, and use more topspin serves in a game. Cheers!
@@robertalexanderson829 So your next step will be to develop a reliable topspin stroke. Start with one side - forehand or backhand - it doesn't matter which. It makes sense to start with your stronger side. It may take a while to develop a topspin shot to return a heavy push. It did take me a while! So you will need to practice a lot. But when you have a reliable topspin stroke, it does become much easier to play a pushing type player.
@@TomLodziak i have pretty good topspin openers that are often winners too and i can loop pretty much any pushes reliably BUT there are some older players who really like pushing and specialized in pushing with a LOT of backspin and also varying the amount of backspin from a LOT to almoust dead ball making it pretty nasty to reliably loop them on a good day i still hit most openers and win smoothly but on a bad day i hit
Very annoying for players who could do more than just pushing but don’t know how to get out of it because a player needs to be able to top spin an under spin ball. This is what the video is about.
Some good tips but I feel like there are so many points missing: - I don't think that you can put forehand and backhand topspin on the same level of priority. In my opinion, forehand top spin is much easier because you can see the ball and the timing is less problematic. Also a forehand topspin can be performed everywhere on the table. Advantage of the bh topspin is since it is in front of you, it arrives faster on the other side of the table. - I think people should spend a lot of time of training their attack before going to play league games against pushers. Multiballs and exercises with some random placement. - you should have empathize more on the need to use your body to make a good forehand top spin, power starts from the ground and mass transfer forward is crucial (weight on the right leg and rotation of the hip). - the way you show forehand topspin is not so accurate as the wrist is too open and therefore you cannot grip the ball properly most of the topspin you do are not spinny because it makes so much noise when you hit the ball - it looks like most of the balls do not have a lot of backspin - you don't talk about where to put the ball (ball placement) - you should have said that winning is not everything and it is important to take some risks to develop your game, even if you lose some matches - Another tip is to play in the opponent forehand since the quality of the push is much lower. More generally to have better serves and return of serves will avoid to be stuck in these endless rallies. Everyone should read "Table tennis for thinkers" by Larry Hodges, it explain how to improve at table tennis.
@@TomLodziak I understand that you want to keep the videos short and most of your content is very good. Having said that I feel like a few my points were very important (sound of ball, ball placement and favouring forehand topspin).
It’s impressive how a player who is not a world class level could explain so well such a complex sport as if he’s a world class player. Which means that the ability to speak well is more important than the skill level you have. I think that is the essence of what great coaches are about. Keep it up Tom, you are doing an amazing job!
I have got a double profit from your channel. I don't only learn how to play table tennis properly but I also practice my listening skills in English. Thanks a lot, Tom!
Ha! Table tennis coach and English teacher. You're welcome.
Also have same situation
Combining pleasant with useful
hahaha, this was completely me yesterday at the local club's weekly tournament. Literally everything you said in this video applies to me. Getting stuck in these pushing rallies, the "I cannot topspin the ball because it is too low and short".
The funny thing is whenever this happens to me I always tell myself that I should be more aggressive when I play, but always end up falling into the same habit of endlessly pushing once again.
This video was really helpful. I will try to implement those tips in next week's tournament. Thanks a lot.
Dear Tom, I find your videos very interesting. Your explanations are so clear because you speak very slowly to make other understand by your stroke action. Great...
Happy to help. Thanks for watching.
Just facing "pushing" problem & your video comes....it's really helpful from immediate effect...Thanks
Tom, Your video Hit the Bullseye. Most beginners and intermediate players have this apprehension. Your ideas helped me overcome mine.
Finally! Thanks for upload this video! I didn't understand what was going on with my topspin strokes! Now I know what I have to practice more
Another brilliant video, thanks :)
But, I think you are underplaying the importance of the needed quality of the opening loop.
I find that if my opening loop is too weak (too slow, and/or high and/or w too little spin) then the other player will often go in and attack it directly and I lose the point.
In my experience the opening loop needs to be of quite good quality before this works.
Thanks Tom. I use to have a couple of friends who are 99% pushers. It's really awful to play against them.
Very nice tips wright here.
A big hug from Lima.
Good video. Last Wednesday I had to play against two players who always pushed the ball, this was really annoying for me, because I am a player who wants to attack. Their pushes had a lot of backspin, therefore, it was difficult for me to attack these balls with a hard topspin. Later I started to push back, but with less backspin, then I waited push, push and push and eventually there came a ball along with less backspin and then I attacked hard and won most of the rallies.
Really this tip is very helpful... Thanks... I come across many just pushing players n it's so frustrating to keep returning... Top spin ... Let me try....
Yet another excellent coaching lesson. Many thanks :)
Being a low-level club player I´ve played, and still play, a lot of pushing rallies. I think that part of the problem is that the strategy to push is a fairly strong local maximum: Initially looping heavy pushes can be error-prone, and poor loops can easily lead to an immediately losing topspin rally: If the loop is too slow, too high, or too predicably directed (or even all three), then even low-level club players will respond with a counterloop or smash. You still have to loop to learn it, but it can be definitely turn out to be a longterm investment. For me, looping increases the variance a lot against both weaker players (bad) and strong players (good). Against players around my rating it definitely decreases my winning chances, but in 1 or 2 years (or 5 or 10 or ...) I hope that that will change.
How true :-(
I am a fairly strong pusher and struggle with getting out of those pushing rallies. In the short term it's less risky to stay pushing and lure the other into attempting and failing at a topspin attack. It's a local maximum, and a dead end. I need to break the circle of pushing, without loosing to the inevitable topspin return. Hope to get there sooner than later.
Love that y’all are using the term “local maximum”. One of my fav concepts from calculus/machine learning applied IRL.
A really good video, some of the players in my local league only push and this has some really useful tips on how to open up the rally
Great video. I do not enjoy push rallies. When I receive a long push I can usually convert to a topspin return. Short push shots opens up severe angles for where opponent can place ball that can be very hard to get to. I try to execute a flick on short pushes but executing a successful flick is still problematic for me.
Another excellent video! I will try this next time I play " the pusher"
...difficult to imagine people who can not get out of the pushing have the right to complain they are not sufficiently "entertained" at the tables.... I personal think pushing and defensive playing is a nice and graceful and an elegant way to enjoy table tennis at any level... the situation you are describing is like a boxer complaining why he is being hit and not cuddled instead... :-) Nice vid anyway. Highlights the types of players to avoid - those who complain too much.
I agree. Pushing is perfect entertainment in retirement homes. But you are right, I personally avoid pushers. Except I want to take a nap.
Yeah, I don't like playing against that player type. Same with people that lob when you get them away from the table. Also, congrats on the 200k subs (not sure when it happened 😅)!
Very helpful video. Important for me to have correct height of body. I did that wrong so was my stroke. Probably cause I am long and tend to stay like a pillar
Yes! Thank you for this, I hate these push rallies! Looks like I need to get lower...
Thanks for the tips ❤❤❤❤
you can also serve fast and long
This is what my friend does and being a beginner i can now get out of this 😆thanks!
Tom, thx for the tutorial. Question: on a long backspin ball, which the best moment for the topspin?
I play as chop pusher. I chop and push and block. Those are my three strong tools. Chop,push and block. Lots and lots of backspin. Nightmare for the oponents. Indoor they have some chance. Outdoor get destroyed. Push chops are so sharp and so low that oponents must put a lot of topspin to counter. But they over the table or short in net. How low? Redicilously low. First bounce on oponent side is quarter of the net height. And ball lands second time on the oponent side. Second bounce is lower than that. Variable shot placement. Variable speed, Also i can slow down the fast paced game to slow motion. Indoor cant do that to such extent because roof is too low and not much space to move around the table. Only one method works vs me. To lift the ball up so the ball bounce high in my side. If i miss the attack point for you. Plus i have to chop push from much higher bounce. But i put also lots of sidespin on the push chops so even top heavy spinners dont perform very well...
Great videos
Definitely a goto if you're looking to move from Amateur to Intermediate.
"BUT": Going from Intermediate to Intermediate-Pro-ish => You have GOT to be ready for that return after your top spin because it will come, and it will come fast. While looping is an important skill, it creates a time delay long enough for intermediate players to start swinging (unless your top spins are Ma Long-fast).
At an higher level you cannot expect your opponent to return that top spin High or Slow.
Serving long top spin is also a way to 99%-guarantee that it will comeback in a non-pushy mode.
Funny...NC legend..and hall of Famer Gregg Robertshaw...defiantly serves ball with fast topspin! 😃🏓no double bounce serves for him! He loves a topspin fight! Starts each point...and sets table for just such a fight!
Awesome to watch!
Long topspin can be chopped though it’s not push it’s still the same principal and older player might still uses that slow equipment that are able to return short any shot short of smash, I have one in my club and it’s very different than playing other players. Short return are the one that hard to push without bouncing up.
Getting oit of there rallies is very tuff for me when they push to my backhand because I use short pimples and it's hard to attack a backspin ball.
Short pimples need not be an obstacle. I have played against players with short pimples who drive through the backspin. You have to get the timing just right, but it is possible.
@@TomLodziak I saw you have a long pimple tutorial. Could you do something for the short pips the internet lacks of short pimple lessons.
Luckily, it is not easy to get my temper short if I face a pusher. I just receive with a push - preferably a thin contact, very precise one, which is hard to attack (but only, when I see, that the push was of too good quality to attack right at that moment), but I vary the direction and add sidespin to the push on the follow up receives if I want to mix up the positioning of the opponent, so I can get a weaker receive, which I attempt to attack with a topspin shot.
thanks for the video. i have a little question, how do you do to return in the best stance or position and unleash the next topspin shot that is very fast , so the ball too return fast enough.
Can I do it to return a low serve ?
so what's the TTR of tom
If he pushes back all the top spin.?
When you are going for the switch to a top spin stroke, is it a combination of bat angle and up stroke or is it mostly a powerful upstroke aimed at the sky?
Or a third option, I have no clue what I'm talking about, its neither
You mean attacking a push (backspin) ball?
@@blueheart9873 yes
At its most basic, you straighten your bat angle and move it up vertically, brushing the back of the ball. If you can get this bit right, you can attack a backspin ball. There are lots of other elements which will make the shot better - how you use your legs, your core, your elbow and your wrist. But get the bat angle and swing trajectory right first and then develop the other stuff later.
@@MrPDTaylor Sorry, forgot to reply. The only thing that I can add to Tom's response is that it's just physics. The ball rotates away from you, so you have to "aim higher". You do this by making spin (=friction), and instead of hitting straight onto the ball you make thin contact with your rubber
easier sad than done for a beginner like me :) But hanks for the video
There is another category of players who play flat or no-spin ball mostly oldmen amateurs or players with cooked rubber. After first bounce ball dives low like topspin ball and shortens length like backspin. Looks like fast attack before bounce and very weak energy ball after bounce, so you are in semi-position: you expected long ball but have to drive short ball. I've learned to attack backspin, topspin, even long no-spin balls. But i am not able to play that short no-spin balls. Do you have any ideas or any video on that?
For the short no-spin balls, you can use flicks. You won't need to lift the ball that much, as there is no spin, so your flick will be more forwards than up. I don't have a specific video on this, but I will add it to me list.
@@TomLodziak thank you, Tom. Will wait for your video
I like the bat of the coach ;)
I really do struggle with a player who allways pushes with insane backspin. Most of his shots are double bouncers, so this tactic does not seem to work. I can control the backspin decently, but my returns allways ends up in the middle, easy to psuh with even more backspin. How can I disrupt his play?
Unless this player has the most amazing touch, I bet most of his pushes are not double bouncers. If you push deep on his side, his return push will almost always only bounce once. There's an interesting perception test I do with players I coach. I will ask them to call out whether my push will bounce once or twice. To begin with they always call it incorrectly. They think it will bounce twice, then they are amazed how the ball actually drifts and the second bounce is past the end of the table. 95% of pushes are like this. They appear short and low, but in reality very few will bounce twice.
Ok I tried but it didnt work! He has so much spin so I just cant controll it without pushing back. Also he mixes up with a kick serve thats enable him to controll the play. I guess I have to practice my topspin more...
@@robertalexanderson829s Tom said, most of pushes are loopable, especially in begginer/intermediate lvl. Keep practicing 3th ball attack from backspin and you’ll see results. Another tip is develop backhand flip from over the table, and use more topspin serves in a game. Cheers!
@@robertalexanderson829 So your next step will be to develop a reliable topspin stroke. Start with one side - forehand or backhand - it doesn't matter which. It makes sense to start with your stronger side. It may take a while to develop a topspin shot to return a heavy push. It did take me a while! So you will need to practice a lot. But when you have a reliable topspin stroke, it does become much easier to play a pushing type player.
@@TomLodziak i have pretty good topspin openers that are often winners too and i can loop pretty much any pushes reliably BUT there are some older players who really like pushing and specialized in pushing with a LOT of backspin and also varying the amount of backspin from a LOT to almoust dead ball making it pretty nasty to reliably loop them
on a good day i still hit most openers and win smoothly but on a bad day i hit
Good!!!
awesome
i'm not alone lol, my passion is pushing everything
What's wrong with pushing? Only game I can play
Very annoying for players who could do more than just pushing but don’t know how to get out of it because a player needs to be able to top spin an under spin ball. This is what the video is about.
I'm annoying then, but I get results
Up to a point yes. (I mean no offense).
@@MeridiusMaximus I'm not taking offence, just defence is my game, pushing, backspin and blocking, I never mean to annoy opponents
Love it!
Takes all sorts.
Usefull thx grandmaster
Hi tom
Please add persian subtitle to your great videos😭🙏
When I try to topspin a push the ball usually goes in the net😌
Your topspin strokes hardly look "ok" or "average", they look GREAT!!
Some good tips but I feel like there are so many points missing:
- I don't think that you can put forehand and backhand topspin on the same level of priority. In my opinion, forehand top spin is much easier because you can see the ball and the timing is less problematic. Also a forehand topspin can be performed everywhere on the table. Advantage of the bh topspin is since it is in front of you, it arrives faster on the other side of the table.
- I think people should spend a lot of time of training their attack before going to play league games against pushers. Multiballs and exercises with some random placement.
- you should have empathize more on the need to use your body to make a good forehand top spin, power starts from the ground and mass transfer forward is crucial (weight on the right leg and rotation of the hip).
- the way you show forehand topspin is not so accurate as the wrist is too open and therefore you cannot grip the ball properly
most of the topspin you do are not spinny because it makes so much noise when you hit the ball
- it looks like most of the balls do not have a lot of backspin
- you don't talk about where to put the ball (ball placement)
- you should have said that winning is not everything and it is important to take some risks to develop your game, even if you lose some matches
- Another tip is to play in the opponent forehand since the quality of the push is much lower.
More generally to have better serves and return of serves will avoid to be stuck in these endless rallies.
Everyone should read "Table tennis for thinkers" by Larry Hodges, it explain how to improve at table tennis.
I could have said all of this, but the video would have been about 30 mins long. Sometimes less is more!
Just upload your video mate, sounds like you’re a crack at this!
Grow Ur own coaching channel... No one wants to hear all of that in one video...
@@TomLodziak I understand that you want to keep the videos short and most of your content is very good. Having said that I feel like a few my points were very important (sound of ball, ball placement and favouring forehand topspin).
@@irikanji there was no need to be super aggressive. Table tennis is not easy and so many people give up because they cannot beat pushers.
23 minutesssssssssss
First
Just learn how to flick 🤪🏓