That Time Star Wars Made an Actress Disappear - Fact Fiend
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- Please go yell about not liking The Last Jedi somewhere else or consider developing an actual personality. We don't care.
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Reminder for the people scrolling down here to hiss about The Last Jedi: Not liking a movie isn’t a replacement for a personality and there are few things considered more universally unattractive than negativity.
- Karl
Nothing screams loser like letting something you don't like be the focus of your life. I spent a few minutes bitching about the movie after I left the cinema, but there's no point beyond that. Maybe talk about what you would've *liked* to see in a Star Wars movie instead. Maybe even write a fanfic.
Edit: And no, this is not a message to anyone in particular, it's just a thought about getting caught in hate loops, lol.
I truly think all the elements for a great narrative are present in Star Wars ep 7-9, but somehow they are not just never brought together.
But that doesn't mean it should matter
My hot take is that there was nothing wrong with Holdo and everything she did made perfect sense for her character. People complaining about her literally just mad that she was the only one using common sense in the whole movie.
I just have to say, "3rd worst," threw me into a weird headspace."
Wait, what are the top two than?
Wait, what counts as a Star Wars movie?
Does the Holiday Special count?
Does the animated Clone Wars film count?
Oh shit do Caravan of Courage and Battle for Endor count?
Like I said, Carl, weird space man.
Thank you
Oh man a stormtrooper rebellion would have been such a good and interesting plot. The entire franchise is just the Republic/Empire vs the Rebellion. If that had culminated in a stormtrooper uprising I feel it would have tied the entire series together more. But well, I guess Disney doesn't want their message to be that if all the oppressed work together they can overthrow their evil overlords, it probably doesnt tap into that chinese market as much..
Would’ve been wayyyy better than what we got! Cinematically It’s a master piece but story wise they dropped the ball!
Oh yeah that would be interesting. Probably would have been better than the "ok I guess" that would be the rating I would probably give them.
Not just China
@@rjreeves7418 pretty cinema with bad story is just pornography. You can't truly have good cinema without a good story, it's a complete package imo.
@@SuperFizzah I meant to say visually but I cannot English today 🤣 I do agree though. But I can agree with Karl that the acting was great in most parts.
I still say that Rey should absolutely have been a staff saber user. It should have been a character development thing where Luke helps her make a weapon that suits her style that she's already comfortable with
I've never understood hating the actors it's always the scripts that are trash
Hell the script and the actors can be amazing. It's the people who edit it at the end that can really screw it up.
Because most humans believe wholeheartedly that guilt by association, revenge by proxy (hurting one person to punish someone else) and collective punishment are legitimate forms of justice, and that in turn is because the past several generations were raised on "one bad apple spoils the bunch", which is literally the modern equivalent of "the sins of the father are inherited by his son".
There are probably some horrible actors but no show or movie is made in a vacuum. The writer, director, actor, editor, hell even the F/X folks all change how any given performance comes out in the final product.
Extra hilarious is how pissed they'd be if an actor refused to perform a role for any cause they're not on board with.
"I quit because the line was racist."
Them: "Get over it and do your job, it's not like it changes who you are."
"I did my job because I didn't see a problem with the line."
Also them: "Well this tells me exactly who you are and I'll make sure nobody in my vicinity EVER forgives you."
Jack Gleeson, Joffrey in Game of Thrones basically retired from acting after the show, which hurts because he was an amazing actor, but we basically lost him because of fan backlash. Not for being a bad actor, but for doing exactly what he should have been doing.
Finn was such an under utilized character. He's a storm trooper turn coat, he totally could have been such an interesting character to explore and build up as a hero right next to Rey. Instead they totally shelved him.
They assassinated Finn's character in order to appeal to the Chinese market.
Agreed. He survived a brief lightsaber fight with (an admittedly injured) Kylo Ren. That's not something just anybody should be able to do.
Pretty much all the sequel trilogy characters were under utilised as there was no single plan for the 3 films, and so each character was essentially rewritten to the point that their arc was diverted every film instead of organically growing across the trilogy.
He should have been the focus of the trilogy, an entirely new type of story for a new Star Wars film.
They could not make the storm troupers into humans… because then one would have to think about all the other ones that have died in the past.
I had a lot of problems with that movie, but I never blame the actors. The actors did their jobs the best they could. They way people attacked her was inexcusable.
The storm trooper "TRAITOR!" thing should have been both a running joke and part of Fins character development, but that would imply disney is competent
My biggest complaint on the sequel trilogy is that (and nice to see the point brought up) - having a trilogy with three directors and no overriding continuity or editorial oversight is an absolutely dumbass idea (Yes, I know VII and IX technically had the same director, but that wasn't the original plan)
I don’t think I can blame her acting, but there was no hint of any romantic tension between her and Finn leading up to the very end where she pulls the “I love you so much I’m going to sacrifice everybody else to save you” move. All the screen time they had together felt like it was building up a friendship, not a romance. It felt like it came out of absolutely nowhere.
I have not watched it in a while so i might be wrong but i don't remember it being a romance at all.
Agreed. Beside, "I'm going to stop you from sacrificing yourself to save everyone else, by leaving us completely open to be annihilated in a moment's notice achieving absolutely nothing, but it's okay we will be transported back to safety by Off-Camera Magic".
Like, even if there was a clear romance brewing between them... Destroying both means of transport right in the middle of fucking nowhere with so much distance to safety instead of AT LEAST achieving something is dumb as shit, only dumber than that is saying "oh look, two survivors, let them walk back the 10 kilometers or whatever back to the thing we are trying to destroy, they just kissed we can't kill them now".
What I remember most about her is the "I'm gonna sacrifice myself to stop you from sacrificing yourself because self-sacrifice is wrong" moment.
@@pixelpause3693 She kisses him right after preventing his sacrifice.
Lmao it was such a stupid decision, that script was horrible. What did she think would happen after she saved Finn and let the base get destroyed? They are still stuck right in the middle of the entire army with no space capable ships readily available. They would both get killed right away as soon as the base got destroyed. The story is so badly paced and written and every character literally can't think past 2 seconds or make smart decisions or any decisions capable of getting them a desired outcome.
the disregard for the whole, bloodline/family name stuff was so cool. I always think of the scene of the kid using the force in the stables. Just for them to say "nevermind lol" in the next film. Felt like blatant disrespect to adult and child fans. They basically said "Um, actually only special chosen people matter"
I thought it would be cool counterbalance to Palpatine. Like he focuses on Luke, Han, and Leia, and their children; thinking he won by corrupting Ben cause he was the important one. Only for his plan to fall apart cause he didn’t believe some random nobody would be powerful to defeat him; the great Sith master and emperor of the galaxy.
I mean, to be fair it was kind of always like that. You needed force connectivity which was genetic. Sure randoms could become great every so often. Not everyone could be a force user, but anyone could be, if they were born with the connection.
My biggest problem with Rose Tico is the addition of DJ (Benicio Del Toro). Take him out of the story, the Rose can use her Engineer skills to figure out her half of the and her sister's pendant can short circuit the tracker. She gets a Big Hero Moment, Finn says something to justify the kiss at the end, better use of Chekov's pendant.
For real why was that guy there loool
Write something and let Rose be a hero in a way that doesn’t nearly kill her kinda-boyfriend to save him.
IIRC, Benicio Del Toro was offered a semi-major role in one of the prequel trilogy movies, but turned it down because a "Lack of Screentime" (around 10 mins). DJ, the character he eventually plays in the star wars universe, has under 4 minutes of screentime. womp womp
honestly, the sequel trilogy feels like a big lesson in not changing horses mid-stream
@Oak Island Pictures i mean, that kinda plays into the same thing
listen the force awakens was garbage from the beginning. Write proper female characters with no Mary sue garbage. it is possible you know we used to write good woman characters before all the woke nonsense. There was nothing interesting or any creativity in the first one, they just rehashed a new hope and the second one was so bad that i have never seen the last one which is pretty tragic actually as i loved star wars deeply for a long time. if it hasnt become completely clear and obvious its the same garbage template that has ruined just about evry ip in the last 6 years. dont they understand people need an escape from the quite difficult last few years without being lectured. As for kelly tran i liked her i thought she was alright but Rey was such a boring character.
@@zorastinrey Was no more a Mary sue than Luke
@@anna-flora999 She is not a real character. She has no flaws. thats what makes her a Mary Sue. the writing was so bad and boring. luke had flaws and vulnerabilities. i suggest you look into what a mary sue means. She had absolutely no flaws. thats just dumb. write better female characters, its not hard we had them before all this mary sue garbage.
@@zorastin it's funny how nothing that you said in any way relates to my comment
My only problem with the sequel trilogy is that it seemed like J J abrams and ryan johnson was fighting with each other over how the story should be. So it ended up with three movies trying to retcon the previous
I just can't believe they set down to do a continuous 3 movies, and instead of writing a three movie script they said "eh, the next guy will figure it out."
That's insane to me. If they had one throughline in the story it would have worked. Some fans may not have liked it, but it would have worked.
@@TheLordofMetroids that is how JJ Abrams work. The mystery box approach. It is the same reason that Lost had a lackluster ending
@@lidular what I remember feeling when I got out of the cinema was that Ryan Johnson took a look at all the open questions and enigmatic characters set up by the force awakens and threw them away.
I didn't want rey to be a skywalker or a kenobi or whatever, but I wanted her to learn SOMEthing about her past.
I wanted to see phasma do something besides dying.
I wanted to see how the rebels behave around a turncoat stormtrooper.
I wanted to know about the alien that leads a human-centric xenophobic empire
I wanted to know how he turnee kylo
I wanted to learn about the knights of ren everybody seemed to care so much about.
Subverting expectations is making unexpected things with these elements, methodically destroying everything set up by the previous movie is just edgy.
@@lidular I liked the Lost ending.
It’s been so accurately described as the anti trilogy
The Force awakings is anti prequel
The last Jedi is anti force awakings
The rise of skywalker is anti last Jedi
And the entire trilogy is anti Star Wars because they are anti Lucas
I didnt mind Rose except for when she stops Finn from saving everyone. She stops everyone from being saved and then immediately says “saving those we love is important”, and I obviously went “?!?!!?!! what!!?!?!”
@@re1010 Agreed. Rose lost her sister attacking the Fulminatrix because Poe wanted to stop a fleet-killer. That fleet is now just as dead and Finn would have been the next to die in vain.
@@re1010 for what its worth i think just because these are the main characters to the movie would they be to the cast? Like think about it poe really only got promoted at the end of the novie and the passage of time isnt years like it is for us. Many of the senior staff might know. They didnt tell poe the plan because he had already disobeyed direct orders and got a bunch of people killed and when you are looming for a traitor wouldnt that put a big amount of suspicion on you?
That storyline was just poorly executed. They wanted us to agree with "Choose love not hate" but then we're left here like "But what about saving what we love?" It didn't make much sense when Poe gets yelled at by Leia and it didn't make sense when Rose 'saves' Finn. I don't even fundamentally disagree with the notion, but this story didn't sell it.
I always thought it was somewhat telling that Mark Hamil absolutely disagreed with Johnson on almost every point about Luke's character in The Last Jedi and he dumped on the movie. I like most of Johnson's films but I think he made a critical fault by not listening to Hamil who loves the character as much, if not more than fans. The deleted scene of Finn leading a Stormtrooper rebellion would've definitely been sick!
Hamil didn't really agree with Lucas either. He's said that he thought Luke should have ended up on the dark side.
To answer the question you posed, The older I get the more it upsets me when "Appeasing the Rascists" is the reason. Because no matter how much we progress, no matter how much I accomplish, it still matters whether or not I can "pass".
Man, The Stormtrooper rebellion idea seems super cool. Finn was my favorite character and he got done dirty.
I absolutely believe that the idea of Rey being nobody was way better than making her related to Palpatine. I hate that stupid british boarding school mentality of making sure that a character is somehow related to someone else that's really important instead of making an impact on the world/galaxy on their own merit.
While I have issues with The last Jedi, Rey being nobody isn't one of them. It's exactly what should have been.
Also see:
"Who are you, girl?"
"...Rey"
"Rey who?"
AND THEN THE ENDING LINE SHOULD HAVE BEEN "Just Rey."!!!
i mean, Luke and Leia ended up being kids of the Emperor's right-hand man
And with the implication of the Emperor being Anakin's father it means the romance between Rey and Kylo Ren goes a bit dueling banjos
@@geckokid8265 i'm pretty sure the theory is that Darth Plageus, or however you spell it, is the progenitor, not Sidious; Sidious may have been interested in immortality thru essence transfer but Plageus was the one who messed with the Force to create new life
I blame the writers for the overall plot. Actors did great, writers did garbage.
daisy ridley was pretty shite, no lie, but i haven't seen her in anything else, so it might have just been overwhelming to be in star wars.
but yeah, the writers fucked all the actors on this.
@@Choryrth No she was charismatic - the main peeps all were.
@@zachanikwano nope, she wasn't charismatic at all. she made the same two faces for the entire series, a face of confusion and surprise, and a constipated face of determination.
and her "character writing" was totally shit. the writers just made her a blatant mary sue.
it's not really daisy's fault, she had nothing to work with, but she did really poorly in this one.
22:38 For the Legend of Korra, they did a test screen with little boys watching it and were worried that conventional wisdom had it that "girls will watch shows about boys, but boys won't watch shows about girls". When asked, the boys said that Korra being a girl didn't matter to them. Kids are taught that, it's not ingrained
Justice for Kelly Marie Tran. Man I feel so bad for her. I hope she gets an Oscar or something as payback one day
I loved the character of Rose and I thought Kelly Tran played her really well and I want to see her in more things. I am literally mad they just sidelined her.
It's why it took a month for me to watch this. I stan Rose.
Whole video made me think how GoT final season would have been even worse if they somehow released episodes months a part and kept on trying to “fix” as the fans reacted. The repercussions of not having the third trilogy mapped out (at least the major plot points and events), and sending to a director to do a “choose your own adventure” billion dollar movie with no synergy, consequences or cohesion, was so jarring.
"everyone's doing a great job" * shows the throne room fight scene *
I think you actually summerized my thoughts that I couldn't quite put into words here. I really enjoyed loads of what TLJ did and set up and then TLS just spent it's entire runtime trying to backtrack because of the worst people in the fanbase.
When the Rey is a Palpatine bit happened I just unconsciously said "Oh f*ck off" at the screen, I probably would have tried to walkout but I would have had to try and get back into my wheelchair in the dark.
Them practically writing out Rose and sidlining Finn so hard that his role became "Yell Rey a lot" just cemented my hate of it. It would almost have been less insulting if Rose died between films, instead of her like one or two lines.
Episode 7 was an unimpressive rehash of Episodes 4-6. A third Deathstar was a stupid and lazy idea.
Episode 8 was an abomination. Rian Johnson did a thoroughly terrible job with the film. I honestly can not think of anything that redeems the film. He makes the idiotic and lazy choice to make many small Deathstars. Admiral Holdo was a toxic leader and poorly written character. Nothing about her was believable as a military leader. The ability to destroy a capital ship by hyperjumping into it basically retcons all of the previous films.
Episode 9 was a half-assed attempt to fix episodes 7 and 8.
I think it is wrong to lump every critic of Disney Star Wars in with a handful of racist twitter trolls that nobody even cares about. My biggest gripe is that they failed to tell a good story, or even to develop the characters into something the audience cares about. The actors did not do a bad job on the film. It was 100% bad writing.
The worst thing about last jedi for me is that it made me think about how interesting it would be if ray and kylo would stop and just make something new. No more black and white fighting for ever, lets build something new. Cut to five minutes later, back to usual sith vs jedi.
My gripe with the 3 sequel movies is the non commitment to an idea. If they went one way or another, it would have been fine. The inconsistency hurts it the most. That and Finn not getting to be a jedi
It's actually great to hear commentary on starwars with out it devolving into unintelligible madness...I think the idea of a storm trooper rebellion would have been brilliant
So the final product is is bad writing(writers/disney wanting to do their own thing instead of a continuous storyline) but good actors with good chemistry that is almost always never touched on and overlooked. Actually makes me want to rewatch it now cause of the lil things I know I missed. I remember people mentioning that in action scenes that the stuntmen were given bad to no direction and fall back without getting hit/attack thin air in the background in the final versions that were released, I havent seen these but mentioned so now I wanna see with my own eyes if true or now lol
@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t to be fair not only is this a criticism of 98% of most action scenes in movies for the past decade I never want to hear about bad lightsaber fights after the stuff that we got in the prequels especially that Obi-Wan versus Anakin fight. One of the things that I appreciated in the throne room fight was it was the first fight since the original trilogy for I actually felt like both a character development and emotion from the actual characters instead of pure DBZ mechanics that were in the prequel sites that absolutely goddamn hated. I think that was the trick for overcoming a lot of the mechanics and fight even though I liked those two because like when raise screens I get it and I feel her when kylo is overwhelmed but determined I could feel that I never felt like that for any of the prequel stuff besides the Clone Wars and it's such a shame especially with how rise of Skywalker turned out that so much acting and emotional power was wasted on bad writing just like its prequel predecessors although at least in the sequel Trilogy actors were allowed to act and emote
Just watch the Throne Room fight. Disappearing daggers... Just look at it.
I really wish more Hollywood action productions learn from old school Hong Kong action cinema. Sure the whole "bad guys waiting their turn" trope is present, but they solved that issue decades ago; they figured out how to hide the cooperation.
The throne room fight really needed that co-ordination, since it has soo many moving parts, Rey, Kylo, and multiple guards, but they just couldn't. Surely there was enough money in the budget to get Adam and Daisy in a gym with the stunt guys for a month.
The whole problem with the sequels is there was zero plans and they were so rushed they just started filming.
Lolz yeah what if in "return of the Jedi" Vader just goes "well actually I'm not your father"
I agree that the biggest issue with these three movies is that there was no planned arc and an agreement that each movies would build upon the last. I have heard it argued that "Last Jedi" is a fairly good movie, just not a good Star Wars movie. Star Wars had almost 40 years of history with hundreds of books and comics published by the time "Last Jedi" was written.
The comment about only seeing "like four days of his life" ignores the thousands of pages of written material written about Luke Skywalker and the Star Wars universe since the 1977 release of the original movie. In fact, the first Star Wars book was released at the same time as the movie. The author wrote the book from an initial script and notes from George Lucas before the movie was finished. It would actually make a good Fact Fiend video since IIRC, the author was a famous ghost-writer for others.
I found the movie okay. It wasn’t terrible but it had some major problems. Mainly it didn’t feel like it was properly planned out story. It could have been great if they had built up the plot points through all three movies
Yeah like, honestly I feel of the three films in the sequels, The Last Jedi is my favourite. Just because it feels so, unique. I would have much preferred if they had Rian Johnson the entire time, I think it would have been much better plot point rise having one director through all three. But the fact that the film doesnt feel like a retread of the original trilogy honestly still endears me so much more than the rest despite all the problems.
@@transgwender There are a lot of fun ways they could have done this trilogy.
For example, if Palpatine was to return, it should have been hinted at in the seventh movie “the force awakens”. This is the Star Wars equivalent of Satan returning to Earth in the Christian book of Revelations. Yet in the movies he is just some old guy sitting in a chair in the middle of nowhere. He was as threatening as your racist uncle at Thanksgiving dinner.
I don't hate The Last Jedi, and I can't honestly say I ever did. There's a lot of things I don't like about it, but I deeply appreciate what Rian Johnson was trying to do; deconstruct Star Wars through the lens of a Star Wars story. It was ambitious, and the things it did well it did PHENOMENALLY well.
I haven't even watched this yet, but my heart ACHES for Kelly Marie Tran, she did NOT deserve the treatment she got from fans; as a matter of fact, her getting harassed was one of the major contributing factors to me leaving the Star Wars fandom.
I hated the scene where she tazed him for deserting because he is not really part of their group. He joined forces to get Rey. It's like, "why are you forcing me to stay here? I didn't join you guys. I didn't promise to fight with you."
loving all the comments about mark hamill who didn't finish watching the video lolol
lmao as if he decides what's in character or not too. "the actor didn't like this characterization" is such a braindead take
@Reyd420 Mark Hamill's argument is still better than this guy's argument.
Luke was willing to see the good in Darth vader. That's who Luke was in the darkest moment in his life when the stakes were at their highest.
That's Mark Hamill's argument.
Whereas the counter argument is: What if something happened off screen to justify the inconsistency? We don't know
That's not a good argument. That's like Batman using a gun because of something that happened off screen.
It's an ass-pull.
@@bobbysworld281995 exactly lol
plus like he knows he's not in charge of story decisions and his opinion isn't the last word on any of it
@@naurrr if you work in construction and the workers tell you the building is shit or if you work in a kitchen and the cooks tell you the food is shit or if you work in a movie and the actors tell you it's shit then chances are that it indeed is shit
@Reyd420 We are saying that Mark Hamill has the better argument. We are not saying that being an actor gives his argument any more clout than a 30 minute TH-cam video.
Why are you guys so stupid?
The only good thing to come from that trilogy is that all of the first trilogy cast is now dead so they can maybe, just maybe, make something original. However knowing them, there's gonna be a fourth death star.
I’m with you guys for the most part and would have loved to see the movies that were hinted at all through out the sequels
This is why I stay with you lot. You understand. Kelly Tran is amazing, and Rose was so good. Kelly didn't deserve what was done to her.
I want more merch, too.
the entire franchise didnt deserve what was done to it
Wait you mean they cut out the stormtroopers basically doing an extended “are we the baddies?” bit? That would have been a hilarious reference if they had a scene of two stormtroopers having that conversation in the Death Star canteen
the little girls didn't buy the rose toys either, that's why they were all marked down to $2.99 (they still barely sold)
Any particular reason you know so much about what little girls like?
This movie regardless of your opinion on it broke the franchise more than the prequels ever did
As a standalone movie I actually liked Force awakens as the beginning of the trilogy the other two drag it down kicking and screaming
Honestly I think their all better as standalone movies, the trilogy is less then the sum of it's parts.
Subversion of expectations is actually indicative of lazy writing.
You're not a good enough writer to play it straight, so you figure subverting it will be good enough and no one will question whether it was earned since they're too busy being distracted by the "reveal"
Karl, I have thought that the entire star wars series is an object lesson on accidents in film making.
Everything I've ever heard about making the oringal trilogy great was pretty much a happy accident.
Then people forgot george Lucas was crazy when making the prequels so no one reigned him in.
And the sequel trilogy is what happened when the committee gets involved.
Marsha Lucas deserves more credit than she gets. She completely fixed anh in editing and turned it from a mess of scenes and useless cuts and time shifts and casually made a masterpiece.
Lucas seems like the ideas guy, you keep him reined in, but he'll come up with interesting stuff.
@@lantcm613 This kind of rumor that everyone fixed Lucas stuff is the result of the sequel trilogy. Everyone started to believe they can do Star wars better than Lucas. They definitely made a committee and came to the conclusion that Star wars fans just wanted chases, empire vs rebels, and only one force user per side. Dave filoni, aka Lucas successor has to fix all of they shitty Star wars stories now.
@@ibrohiem I never said that everyone fixed all of Lucas’ stuff, I only stated the one example of the editing, which it won an Oscar for. I recommend watching a video by Film Spaced about “the lost cut” of a new Hope, it’s really good. Lucas was definitely good at coming up with ideas and fleshing out the world of Star Wars, he just wasn’t very good at dialogue(which he admitted himself) and directing actors(there are many quotes from actors about George’s lack of direction on how they should act)
Lots of great shots in this movie
**Shows Adam driver shirtless
Understandable
Lost is a really good example of J. J. Abrams propensity for introducing ideas he abandons.
True but then there was that writer's strike when everything was getting good. Then after the strike. It was just ended ignorantly.. haha
I remember reading of a writer they brought on for that show who left. Apparently, he was frustrated that the other writers involved had literally no idea of the direction of the story they wanted to tell, neither did they seem to be concerned with formulating one. They just strung together a bunch of wild shit, with idea how, or intension to, tie them together.
I disagree with alot of what is said but I am always surpised when you guys stick to your guns of posting your opinions about the squeal trilogy. It makes me happy of what you all do. My biggest issues with Last Jedi was them dropping Ray is a nobody. Yeah having a character related to the emperor is cool but I liked her being nobody was better. One huge issue I do have with it was the whole ramming FTL. It was just the fact that this is a tactic now being used? If the rebel alliance was so desperate then why didn’t someone do it on the first death star. The Throneroom fight all I have to say about it was could’ve used some more practice cause we see one guy just spinning around for style points. After the movie me and my sister throught Ray was gonna make a order of Grey Jedi which would’ve been cool.
Hearing there was set up for a storm trooper rebellion. It would’ve been great. As much as I hate the squeal trilogy that hate comes from the lack of flow between movies. Yeah the prequels were bad and it was very much George Lucas being George Lucas. But at least there was a idea. A very badly executed idea but a idea at least
the Rey being totally random and unrelated to anyone imo was a better story decision. fr.
Yeah on their own all the movies were basically fine as movies go, basically a C+ grade as there were some stand out bits at better than average. The bad part comes from how they are supposed to be a cohesive story and really are just a weird whipping back and forth on what story is happening
The ramming thing could have been fixed with a little dialogue: just explain she is using the hyperspace tracker as a beacon, so we know it wouldn't work otherwise. This is a special circumstance. That's also a neat little plot device, with the First Order being hoisted by their own petard.
@@andrewmoore7014or say it being that effective only worked because the supremacy is so massive it's gravity shadow is strong enough to pull ships out of hyperspace (like Stars or planets), and because noone had build such a massive ship in millenia, noone knew that would happen
The second Matrix movie retroactively removes all the cool from Morpheus.
I did hate on the sequel trilogy quite abit, but I never hated the actors or the characters themselves I was only really upset about how they didn't do more with them, and now I know the plans were there just abandoned it's kind of dissapointing. You've defidefinitely altered my opinion of the first two so I'm going to go back and re watch them this time focusing more on the movies in their own right disgrading them as taking place in the starwars universe.
Gwendoline Christie was absolutely waisted as Phasma. There could have been so much more done with that character on screen.
I honestly think the prequels are the best in my opinion but, I personally think the Clone Wars are far better than the actual movies
I hate the fact that luke wasn't anything like his legends canon version. He wasn't darth vader or the chosen one's son, he was always Luke Skywalker. His status and strength came from him training and learning.
I mean for the comments about Rise of Skywalker throwing out the plot points established in Last Jedi and not following along , Last Jedi did the same with Force Awakens. The triology as a whole is one hot mess and at the end of the day Disney still made a mint and don't really care.
The best criticism I've ever heard of The Last Jedi incidentally came from one of the guys in the KOTOR let's play you showed a clip of.
I'm paraphrasing a bit, but it was essentially that for a movie so dead-set on subverting the expectations of the viewer, it chickens out from doing it when it _really_ would have mattered: when Kylo Ren does the whole "join me" thing with Rey. If she had said yes, THAT would have been interesting.
For me good subversion is doing something unexpected and interesting, not the exact opposite of what people expect.
Good subversion : awesome opening battle followed by Poe being chewed because it was a terrible strategic error.
Edgy subversion : you care a lot about who your parents were and why they abandoned you in a horrible place? That's a dumb question, let's move to something else.
Good subversion : show the mysterious and intimidating evil mastermind is not so great or smart or powerul.
Edgy subversion : kill the mysterious character before we can learn anything about him.
Good subversion : the wise master you looked for doesn't want to be involved anymore
Bad subversion : the guy who didn't give up on saving planet detroying evil mc evilface tries to murder his teenage nephew at the first whiff of dark Side shenanigans.
And for me, the best example of that edgyness is the underwater xwing on Luke's island. He obviously wanted fans to think about the scene in empire strikes back, then did nothing with it.
Could have used it to show differences between luke and yoda, or rey and young luke, or trigger a discussion, but he simply ignored it. That's not subversion, that's being antagonistic to the people who liked the previous movies.
My biggest issue with episode 8 is the fact that it is the middle chapter of a trilogy with zero plan or forethought. I do think that Luke's failure for Ben was a bit concerning given that change of heart between pure love for his father who HAD done horrible things and a sudden urge to strike down his nephew on the fear that he MIGHT do horrible things was never explained, and that is frustrating, and I personally prefer the batshit crazy acrobatic duels from the prequels and old republic game cinematics, but in terms of story and actor performance, episode 8 was really good by itself. I think Rian Johnson could make a really good trilogy by himself, but don't give him movie 2 in a trilogy where 1 and 3 are being made by a director with a completely different vision and ZERO communication between the two directors.
That wasn't the first time a product from Disney was edited for the Chinese audience, the poster for Black Pantger cover Chadwick Boseman's face with the black panther mask.
I will never support that company and I find it ridiculous every time they try to virtue signal.
The last 3 movies did the actors poorly. They were poorly written chacters and just decided to go and say no to prior canon.
I feel like the biggest problem with the sequel trilogy looking at the final product is the lack of commitment to a singular vision for the full project.
Even if that vision wouldn't have been what I or anyone else would've liked or preferred at least it would've been a complete picture.
I’m sorry but the idea that the man that risked his life to try redeeming Space Hitler also tried to murder his nephew after having a bad dream is mind numbingly stupid.
Honestly I didn't have a problem with Luke in the Last Jedi, at the time I remember the Star wars community was kind of in agreement that the Jedi weren't that great.
I didn’t realise that was her in that college humor video. thats epic. she was great even then.
It’s a shame just how many Star Wars actors have gotten shit online for things that weren’t their fault. Jake Lloyd, Ahmed Best, Hayden Christensen, Daisy Ridley, Kelly Marie Tran, Alden Ehrenreich, Moses Ingram, and probably many other examples.
has JJ written a good ending to anything?
That would require JJ writing an ending at all.
@@thetimebinder so true 👍
8 movies balls deep in is not the time to start getting all "deconstructionist"
That Rose character literally ruined Finns self sacrifice for no reason, it would have been EPIC but no, because "love" FFS
Lotsa people: "I hate [specific SW movie]!"
Me: "I guess I'm disappointed, but it doesn't take any real estate in my brain.
This film is better than ROS purely because its way more memorable. My first rewatch of ROS had me seeing so much I had completely forgotten about. I'm not a fan of TLJ, and I don't like how little Disney seemed to care compared to other franchises, but at least I could remember the plot of TLJ on first watch.
the original concept for the trilogy was a good one. Let the guy who's good at setting up a bunch of world building and mysteries write the first one, let the person who's good at character drama write the middle, and then get someone else to write the end. The problem comes in that a lot of the plot lines from the first one get kneecapped by the second one, and nothing is set up that would work well for a third movie, so the guy who was supposed to work on that gave up and they brought in the guy who's specifically not good at finales to write the finale, and then apparently edited the fuck out of what he turned in in the 11th hour to placate racists.
I think something that would’ve been great to add is a longer sequence for the night Luke betrayed Ben. Like the fans have a point that Luke’s defining characteristic in the original trilogy is never giving up on anyone no matter how far gone they seem then he has one bad apple and abandons everyone he was mentoring. I think if they spent more time driving home the point this wasn’t just Luke losing anybody but his own nephew along with his entire nights work in one night. Maybe a sequence where they loop Luke into that weird force communication thing Rey and Kylo had going on that transitions into a dreamlike fight scene. Ending with a long shot of Luke just being devastated at the burning of his temple. I think that’d help bridge some of the cognitive dissonance between original Luke and sequel Luke
There were a lot of weird writing choices in the movie that could be easily fixed with a little more run time. Just as an example, the ramming attack? Ok, the Supremacy has a hyperspace tracker, have that play a role. That explains why this hasn't been done before, that creates a signal that it can hone in on to do this. This is something that could have been worked in to the film in minutes or even seconds.
Lots of things in the movie are like that, they just needed a little more development and then they'd make sense.
@@andrewmoore7014 even simpler: the rebels have a super secret unfinished prototype of hyperspace missile.
They need time to make it work, and even then just by sacrificing the ship, and they can't tell their plan because they know someone on boqrd is a spy.
Now you have a reason for admiral whatever to not tell notorious hot headed resistance fighters she has a plan, for the slowest chase in cinema's history and for the awesome hyperspace ramming not destroying all the lore
Luke and Kylo should have been half the movie.
You want Luke to get so scared of his pupil and nephew he tries to kill him then turn into a hermit, you have to earn it.
You want the son of our heroes, trained by our hero to turn evil, you have to show it happen.
And if you have a mysterious dark master and a mysterious order of dark knights, you have many ways to weave them in that story.
It could have been such a great story, the fall of a hero and the corruption of a promising apprentice, but instead we got : "remember the perfect hero from your favourite movie? well I've decided he tried to kill his nephew becquse he got scared, then ran away and turned intoba bum. Also the nephew turned instantly into an edgy mass murderer and space nazi general. Also you're stupid if you think his mask was cool"
No wonder the fanboys went ballistic. The movie repeatedly insults the people who obsess over the series, many of them to an unhealthy point, the people who spend an absurd amount of money on the brand. That's bad business regardless of what you think of the artistic value of the film itself, and I don't understand why Disney manages this brand so poorly.
@@anthonylaviale3021 Right. Like the video points out, the acting and cinematography are quite good but the writing is constantly tripping over its own feet when it could have also been good!
We dont win this war by fighting. We win this war by saving eight or nine alien horses😂
To me Fin was the most interesting character, Rey was good and the 1st movie had some really good parts, but also parts that just didnt make sense, tie fighters being shot down by fin always being one of the most prominent. In that same part of the movie people critic Rey being able to just fly the ship but I personally think thats believable as she has spent her life round ships. I cant remember how much she uses the force in that movie but i dont think its a lot, the only part that stands out is the lightsaber vision that has many ways to be explained.
The second movie is where things just get wack for me, Rey doing a bit of swinging like a kid gives her the focus to lift a big pile of boulders, the ftl crash that ruines every ship to ship battle as you can just use hyperspace missiles on eachother. The Rose and Fin story line felt pulled out of a hat and i cant remember if they even accomplished anything past having the enemy scan for the cloaked pods as it was them being there that gave that information away if i remember right. And that only came about because purple hair didn't tell Fin her plan, Fin at the time being considered a hero and would have had quite a bit of influence as rose showed us.
By far my biggest problem was that 50% of the movie could have been cut with just a convocation and people getting sticks out of there asses allowing time for more stuff to happen that would have a bigger effect then what i remember as a high stakes dine and dash in a casino.
Finn reacting to shooting down the TIEs could have been adrenaline, but imagine an untrained shipbreaker immediately being able to fly a commercial jet of today. Unless the idea is that hyperdrive ships are so automated that anyone can fly them.
@@jamisonedwards8162 yeh, it could have been adrenaline, but there was no indecision at any point from him, yeh traning ect could have taken over but we dont really see that in how he oporates the turret and talks with Rey. He was just being a normal guy, kinda the point bet a let down, really would have added to the suspence rather then him only struggling with making the turret work.
As for Rey being able to fly the ship, she grew up taking them apart, and has atlest seen other people operate small vehicles, Im willing to put it up to all that along with force and mc shinanigans. Even more so as alot of powerful force users have been in that ship, would have been a cool way to intoduce us to her being sensitive to force memorys infact.
Rey wasn't just an untrained shipbreaker. She says that she has flown ships before after the skirmish on Jakku. She knows how to fly, and her first experience with the force basically helped her out
It's a bit convoluted, but there is an attempt at an explanation
There's just one scene in the original series, in A New Hope, where two stormtroopers are chatting about some kind of tool or vehicle or something while obi wan sneaks past them
I think active racism is worse for the person while inactive racism is worse for society.
The thing about Luke not being the "character you think he is" is that you need to establish that, you can't just turn a guy who had faith that Darth Vader, the most evil guy in the universe, still had good in him into a "I'm gonna try and kill my nephew over a nightmare and run away when that failed" guy. Just like you couldn't have Darth Vader suddenly be a boy scout who was actually helping the rebellion all along. I get that not everyone has to be the most media literate people ever to enjoy a good movie, but holy shit how can you not see that it was a jarring turn for the most hopeful character ever. The whole "subverting expectations" just to subvert expectations without any hint or clue is not clever storytelling, it's just lazy, dangling a shiny object in front of a toddler levels of "clever".
That's not to say there weren't racist and sexist backlash to the movie, but Rose wasn't an engaging character, and she didn't even matter in the end. You can like the movie, you can like her acting, but nothing in this movie worked. The cinematography was fine, but even that was hurt by bad stunts.
One of the things that was introduced in the second movie that JJ Arbram even toyed with momentarily only to completely abandon it was the Duality. Throughout the Series as a whole, the one thing that remains consistant is that despite the efforts of the jedi and the Sith, the Force demands balance. If the sith reins, then the force creates a powerful light force user to stop them. if the Jedi rule, it creates a sith that destroys them. For the Force to create a duality between Rei and Kylo, that would mean the two would have to be equal opposites. As Kylo returned to the lightside, Rei should've turned dark and Abrams even toyed with the idea of her going sith but it never went anywhere.
My problem with the later Star Wars movies was that there was too many cooks. (If that makes sense).
My second problem with Star Wars is other Star Wars fans…..
You drink beer like they do in movies.
"Thats not what Luke would do."
"HOW DO YOU KNOW, YOUVE ONLY SEEN 4 DAYS OF HIS LIFE!?"
"So we're ignoring that they completely retconned all the books and comics of Luke up until his death. And the fact they didn't stay faithful to the character the fans fell in love with in the first place?" Right.
I've seen so many theories about where things might have gone but my faves are Darth Jar Jar and Snoke is Windu.
what I really can‘t believe is that male executive harbor the idea that boys will not buy merch with Scarlett Johansson in tight black leather … these men were there when Lara Croft had two cyan pyramids on her chest and was still the hottest thing around
good actors bad script.
I'm black and Kelly Marie was my first and only celebrity crush I was so distraught when she disappeared from the internet but I don't blame her I find myself considering abandoning the internet at times as well :/
I really liked Finn and wishws they did more with him idk I was hoping he would be a Jedi
But yeah racists suck
Also Karl and everyone thanks for being good people
Looking forward to seeing y'all Saturday. Hoping the rain forecast goes away so I don't have an hour drive in the rain AND dark.
when Karl calls Finn "pani-kin Skywalker" I absolutely lost it, how did Lucas keep a straight face??? I mean, figuratively speaking with no visible face, but holy shit this is my new favorite descriptor
Kelly Marie Tran got the worst beat for an actor in recent memory. She didn't deserve any of the hate she got. She's a great actress. She was one of my favorite parts in TLJ.
Lol @2:45 . Very true! We only saw tiny sliced moments of his life.😂
Kelly Marie Tran: That's not even a snack.
Me: No, but you are. ❤❤❤
THIRD WORST? It's number 1 worst.
Everybody take note of this moment. the one time he wasn't able to open a bottle with an object was when that object was a freaking bottle opener.😂
The Last Jedi was my favourite of the latest trilogy because it at least tried something new, I loved the plot that the plucky hero couldn't just save everyone with some luck and defying orders etc... that's not to say any of those films are particularly amazing, but it's not the horrendous disaster everyone says it is.
Rian, unlike Mark Hamill and the grumpy fans, actually understands Luke Skywalker. He took the threads that _The Force Awakens_ laid out and extrapolated it into the only explanation that makes sense. Rian didn't take _Star Wars_ in the wrong direction, he just continued what JJ Abrams setup which JJ just ruined.
Exactly, Rian had to follow up a bad setup by JJ
"all the acting is really good" as they show the worst choreographed scene in the whole damn movie lmao
Imagine if TLJ was good, or even just fine, I bet the actress would've gotten a mountain of job opportunities. It's a shame.
I do wonder about that line about how 8 of the movie are bad thought. I've seen all twelve and I only think 4, maybe 5, are strictly bad.
I've always felt like the sequels had great ideas, they just didn't go anywhere.
The movie definitely gets to much hate, but Luke's character was completely assassinated. He refused to kill space Hitler because of a small chance he could be turned back to the light, (if he failed the empire wins and he and all the other rebels die), but his nephew has a bad dream and he nearly kills him. Luke would not do that, the comics say that, Mark Hamill says that, and the films say that. There's nothing wrong with making Luke give up if there's a good reason for it but there wasn't, that one scene completely ruined the character.
ah yes a reference to my favorite rule of the universe, the exception rule: every rule has an exception, no exceptions.
"Panickin Skywalker" 😏
I just wish Luke had a better reason to become a hermit, hermit Luke is great.
It just seems like it really should have taken more to get him so close to committing a premeditated murder.
I can't really blame the writers though. They were given a mystery with no answer, just an empty box.