I truly appreciate how precisely you think things through mentally, and the selection of your words when conveying your thoughts ! I am exactly the same when speaking of architecture. My daughter calls it being picky, I prefer selective and precise ......... keep up the great work, much appreciated !!!
I got fitted for shoes & insoles by the same road runner store in the city and really helped my plantar fasciitis. I never thought about getting insoles until I needed them but really love them now!
Agreed. I take the approach of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” If I don’t have issues, I feel like changing things could definitely create problems.
Yesterday I went through the exact same exercise at roadrunner sports, I was really impressed. But again I need more time to really see how I feel about the custom insoles, I got one of their Max cushions for my everyday work shoes because I stand in the warehouse all day as a mechanic, engineer. Also got their mid cushion that they recommend more for running for my everyday running shoes and got a new pair of hookahs that I really liked. I need more time to really see how I feel about the custom inserts but they do like you said make all the shoes kind of feel the same and a little tight at first. But overall I like how it hugs my Arch. It makes it feel like a more complete shoe.
I would really like a review of the pureboost GO! The only running reviews of pureboosts are the one of Jami's. I think that pureboosts and solar boost/solar glide are not recieving enough light from the running community. PS: Kudo for the honest review. Good work.
@@kofuzi My experience with insoles is negative, i have tried several "antishock" sorbothane insoles last summer and a custom insoles made by an orthopedic technician when i was younger (i don't remeber why i was suggested to use them) and everytime i have fatigue/pain under the arches of my feet. I don't have flat feet or other particular condintions so maybe for me insoles are just a solution for a problem that i don't have... I am currently using (100km today) pureboost 2017 model, and i really like them. The more i use them the more i like them wich doens't make sense since running shoes degrades with wear. I prefer them over the epic react 2018 that i bought last week beacause epic react have a little bit of arch support but i only used the react for two slow and short runs...even the pureboost17 were not "comfortable" the first 10-20km.
I think it's interesting in measuring how your foot can change. I started as a moderate stability shoe, did a lot of barefoot running because of martial arts, strengthened my legs a lot and my whole fit shifted. I'm not sure why exactly but I'm now a neutral runner with very little heel impact.
I went through this same type of experience with insoles. You summed it up perfectly: "Just like you wouldn't give medications to someone who isn't sick, I was only feeling the side effects without getting any benefits that would make those side effects worth bearing." Thanks!
Old video but still helpful. For years I've needed custom orthotics and off the shelf insoles for all walking shoes and my clipless cycling shoes. With size 11 feet most makers assume American men need D width, but mine are very narrow, A or B, with high arches on both feet. Many boots and work shoes are so wide on my feet I need added insoles and arch supports just to keep my feet from flopping around loosely, and so the lace eyes don't overlap. I've tried many expensive custom orthotics and off the rack insoles and have settled on ProFoot Miracles as the best value at only $8-10. They're comparable to the standard adidas insole on most Boost shoes, but a bit thinner and gradually compress to a form fit where needed. I replace them once or twice a year. Highly recommended. TBH, none of the expensive custom orthotics or insoles costing more than around $20 were worth the money. Some made things worse, as you've described. But it's tricky with running shoes - some benefit from a replacement or supplemental insole, other shoes are worse with anything other than the factory insole. After buying shoes I'll carry a pair of insoles in a pocket in case I need them to reduce midfoot arch strain. Some runs I need the extra insoles, some runs I don't. Often I'll trim the ProFoot Miracles to leave room in the heel cup and toe box And it's possible the wrong insoles, or lack thereof, contributes to my occasional bouts with shin splints and strained fibularis longus muscles. Or maybe my running form is just terrible and I need more physical therapy to work the legs, glutes and torso. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Love your honesty and transparency as always, straight off the bat you know you're gonna get a good review from you! Very interesting thoughts on this, i've never had my gait tested or anything like this, would love to know what they find!
Great video, just got my custom insole. A little pricey but like yourself, I go thru about 5 pair per yrs. I clock in about 10 miles/day🏃🏾 Clifton 8 are my go to
i discovered that custom orthotics fit best in a max cushion shoe with no plastic in the sole. such as the trust system. Any stability shoe would be like putting a arch support on top of an arch support. I have the orthotic in Asics Novablast 2 and works well. I am trying it in the wave rider 25 which has a thin wave plate and acts as a spring rather than stability but I am still comparing with original insole. Thus a max cushion is the best then you should notice difference.
Great review!I agree with your thoughts.Had something similar and took for ever to get used to them.Felt muscles that I never thought I had.I think if you have issues running normally then they are helpful.
A local running shop in my city has a very similar setup where you can have your your feet mapped out and your stride recorded/analyzed. They gave me a couple shoe recommendations and a pair of insoles to go along with them. I skipped on the insoles as they felt stiff and I had never ran in specialized insoles before, but the shoe recommendation was actually spot on with their top pick being the brooks glycerin which felt absolutely amazing on foot but had a price tag of $170 at the time so I had to “settle” for a pair of Pegasus 34’s. Overall it was a pretty enjoyable experience and seemingly did exactly what they claimed it would, put me in a pair of good shoes that would work with my biomechanics, but I’ll second the point you made that insoles probably just aren’t for everyone 🤷🏻♂️ Great video as always!
thanks so much for the input! glad to hear about your experience. have you since had a chance to try the glycerin? super curious to see how those would feel for you
kofuzi I have not, for better or worse I made the switch to lower heel drop shoes (6mm or lower) to help with my forefoot strike and most brooks shoes run 8mm or higher. So I mostly run in altras, hokas, and some of Nike’s racing shoes nowadays. It was an older model glycerin that I had tried on, probably two versions prior to the current, but it definitely felt like something I would’ve enjoyed in my rotation at the time as a good daily mileage or long run workhorse. All these thoughts of course only being formed from a quick jog and walk around in the running shop so nothing concrete, but they’re probably at least worth reading into or even trying on if you’re looking new shoes for some upcoming spring miles 👍🏼
I could not agree more, my first running shoes were stability because of a pushy salesman, I found out I was a neutral because my wife chose some Nike Zoom Elite 8 for my birthday a couple years back and now neutral is here to stay!
Thanks! Your information was super valuable. Still not sure the insoles are working for me. "Fatigue" is an accurate word to describe how my feet are feeling after walking with the insoles.
This is kinda crazy. I went to my local running shop (under a different name). They have the same machine there and they measured my foot. They also said my left foot was normal but my right arch was high. The super nice guy there recommended a different brand arch support. I wasn’t sure. But I decided to bite the bullet and I bought the insoles. They felt comfortable enough walking in. I put these in my New Balance Fresh Foam X Tempos. I’m feeling fatigue in the middle of my foot. I search for road runner insoles. What do you know... I find your video and I’ve got to say you described it exactly how I felt. Mind you, I’m only doing my drills before my run. So I take them out and my feel seem so much happier! I’ve never had prob with needing insoles (🤞🏻/✊🏻🪵) but I’m fairly certain I don’t need them. Also -side note they measured my feet an entire size different from left to right in addition to getting the sizes wrong. I wear between 12-12.5 depending on the brand. They measuring scale thing said I should fit a 10.5 in my left and an 11.5 in my right foot.
I have actually worked for Fleet Feet for about 2.5 years now and would of probably suggested a neutral shoe based on a minimal amount of pronation happening. The thing that I like to always tell the people I help with is that the human body naturally pronates a bit, but also supinates at the same time in order to get a neutral stride. It’s mainly when the foot and ankle pronates in good amount is when I prefer them in a stiffer shoe(I say stiffer shoe not stability shoe because I have learned that some shoes that are labeled neutral can have a hint of stability in them, just have to know the shoes well). As for the insole I would most likely of recommended you one since by looks your arch falls down a decent amount when you put pressure on your feet. But that’s just by looks not actually being there so not really sure of course. The insole should have a plastic piece that will be a little uncomfortable for a couple of weeks but I always recommend to people that they should ease their way into the insole. Example would be to wear it for a couple of hours a day or one day on and another off until you are ready for them daily. I know this is a long comment but just wanted to let people know what I thought. I really enjoy watching your videos and hearing your opinions about running in general. Thank you.
I watch myself run in slow motion quite a bit, but almost never while barefoot. So it was interesting to see what was going on with my arch. And the whole experience has me thinking more about foot strength
I very much enjoyed your considered approach to the review given your skepticism. A few years ago, following a break from running, i spent far too much time (+ money) on gait analysis and custom insoles. I later realised that they really only served a purpose as a preparatory mechanism to orient my foot prior to foot strike and that once my foot muscles had regained strength the insoles were essentially superfluous. I think that they would be better considered as 'trainer wheels', and that a greater emphasis on analyses of foot musculature/strike, before and after some professional gait analysis and correction, would serve these running shops better.
@@kofuzi Sorry to hijack this thread, but was trying to make a comment on your original video but I think it might be locked. Unfortunately, I was cursed with extra wide to wide feet all my life, so I lived with shoe pain since I was 7. Now at 52, I am still limited with shoes choices. Been getting back to into shape and losing weight but been feeling pain at balls of right foot with burning/needle like pain in underside phalanges of middle toes at the 2.5-3 mile mark of my walk. This is new sensation in last couple months. I would rate the pain at 7 of 10. Note: In my past, I have broken some major bones and had severe laceration up to 30 stiches, so pain is always something the goes away. Anyhow. I can finish my 8-10 mile walk by pushing through. Thinking back, I wore my new pair of rollerblades that felt like a hammer being applied to my metatarsal for too long one day. So, I think it might be the root cause of Morton’s neuroma symptoms. According to RR, I have 8 2E in left foot and 8.5 3E in right foot, high arches that are symmetrical on both feet. I tried $80 custom insoles and they did help so now I start to feel the pain at the 5-6 mile mark of my walk and the pain now is at about level 6 in my NB Fresh Foam 1080 V10. I am thinking about getting a second pair of insoles for my trail shoes, Fresh Foam Hierro v5. Here are my questions: You mentioned a similar pain in your right foot like mine. What list shoes do you recommend (asking for a list because not all shoes have 2E and 4E available)? Do you recommend anything else that got rid of your pain? Do you have experience with the Superfeet ME3D or any other custom insoles since your posting in 02/2019. FYI recently came across your youtube channel, love your work and insight. From one Asian bother to another, keep up your great work.
thanks for watching! so far, it's seemed like there people who have been running for a while and have had issues that the insoles have been able to resolve. but for people who have been running without major issue, it hasn't seemed to have much benefit.
Yes yes yes I needed this video! I feel the exact same about these systems! I never used to run in stability shoes and had 0 injuries. I started running in stability shoes because that’s what the running store fitted me into and I have had back to back injuries in my feet, ankles, hips and hamstring since. I’ve been thinking about transitioning to a 0 drop minimalist shoe. Have you ever tried any of that kind? Nice video!
I am not a runner but I work on my feet every day if I can wear boots I am fine but when I am inside all day and need to be wearing a regular shoe my feet start hurting in an hour, they fit Me for the black insoles and helped me find a PROPER FITTING shoe and they are great, they are a stability shoe but I have had 4 knee surgeries and 3 ankle surgeries and have a bad back so I won’t complain about it because I am finally comfortable
I know this is old by my Pegasus 36 are the same way! The right shoes is a lot stiffer in the ball of the foot area. The left is almost to soft. Glad I am not the only one. Might see if I can exchange them...
I cut out any section of an insole that I can feel on my arch or I remove the insole and replace it with a dead flat $1 in-sole. So much better fit and more comfortable. Try it. Dr Kelly Starrett’s book Ready to Run page 61...’Contrary to long-held beliefs, the arch of the foot is a non-weight-bearing surface. The idea that ligaments stretch out and the arch collapses buys into the misconception that the arch needs to be held up by something else.’ It goes on to make it clear that we don’t need supports we need to improve our feet strength and mobility. Even Jamil Coury in one of his vlogs speaks about refusing to wear support trainers. If its good enough for Jam Jam it’s good enough for me.
I've had these in a number of Ghosts for about two years, dunno if they have any life left in them. I'll try them in my Hyperion Tempos and Saucany's coming in this week.
I also used them for the first 6 months when i started to get into running. used these soles in combo with altra torin 4. . I reached a point when i felt i didnt need them anymore. Im okay to move forward without them. I would consider recalibrating ...
Today I went to roadrunner’s perfect fit process. While I did spring for their custom insole, I wanted to confirm my shoe size, width. They came up with ½ size larger shoe size and lowered the width from 4e to 3e. I already knew I needed an arch support. Too soon to say if Roadrunner’s molded inserts are helpful. Plantar fasciitis pain want going away on it own. Fingers crossed.
I trained the guy years ago that made your insoles! Personally I think everyone can benefit from some type of extra insole support but I don't think they are for everyone. Superfeet started making true custom insolea, not heated up plates they bend and shape to your feet. (Road Runner Sports employees do push the sales of insoles because their jobs depend on hitting their sales goals.)
A few years ago my high school track team did a "shoe night" every season. I went to Road Runners and got a custom insole. For a couple years I really loved it because it made every shoe fit my foot the same way and used it through three pairs of shoes. More recently after I began a shift away from stability shoes and to neutral shoes, I found myself not needing the support from the insole anymore, and wanting to have a softer ride by just using stock insoles.
Great review as usual. Was the insoles feeling the same you felt on the Kinvara 9? Im also skeptical about custom insoles, but Im still wondering if some sort of insoles could help a shoe to change for instance their running range (e.g.: add a bit more cushion to a race flat and manage to do a half marathon, as Im heavier and my knees require more than a flat for longer distance). Didn’t dare to try yet but something I have in mind...
I struggle with running stores too. They provide a lot of info on my feet and what they think will work best for me, but I always need to run 5-10 miles to tell if I want to keep shoes.
kofuzi I have returned one pair right around 10 miles. The others I returned before running that long. I would not hesitate to take advantage of a good return policy, though you shouldn’t abuse it of course. I think you can get banned if they think you are abusing a return policy.
My wife returned a pair of Brooks Adrenaline after running 10 miles in them. She’d previously had problems with Brooks when she was in the army but this running store recommended a pair and we figured since it’d been quite some time ago, perhaps they’d changed and would be okay to run in. She started having the same pains and issues she had previously so we took them back. They then recommended a neutral shoe, Saucony echelon 7, and shes loved them. The store was incredibly helpful throughout the whole process, no issues returning them(of course she didn’t abuse them either,) and they said if she had problems with the new ones to just bring them back as well.
Hey, been watching for a while (November 2018 or so). Just wanted to let you know we are similar age, shoe size, body build etc. Your reviews have been pretty spot on with my likes and dislikes in shoes I have used. I am a little more of a heal tap to midfoot striker then you which usually affects how a shoe feels... Anywas with that said I rarely run Nike but I tend to find a shoe and stick with it for a while if its a good one. Also recently got fitted for an insole/orthotic for soreness in my right foot under the ball. used them for a while and went back to insoles that come with the shoes, LOL. I am glad to see you tried on a pair of Brooks Launch. I have run almost all of the brooks neutral shoes and the Launch has been by far my go to shoe. I would like to see your take on them if you do end up trying them out. Some other shoes I have liked NB Beacon, Nike zoomfly fly knit, Brooks Glycerin 16 (anything before the 16 I have hated).
I am not sure but the other versions felt like bricks to me. They changed to all "loft" foam for the 16, might be why. it felt responsive but also very cushy. They are a little heavier then I tend to like but I didn't notice it with the 16. smooth like a Cadillac. :)
i recommend the DR SCHOLS sport gel insoles they cost $15. they make 2 styles definitely get the heel support cup (will be blue and yellow) NOT the midfoot-plastic one..
Hey just came across this video and your take on the insoles being like prescribing medicine to someone whose not sick is very relatable. I would like to know, what's your opinion on using an (hard) insole or custom orthotic in a shoe with a carbon plate already in the shoe?
Do you have a high arch foot? Im looking for an insole and hopefully use a carbon plated shoe like a high arch foot runner like me. Is it really recommended for a high arch to have an insole then try it in a neutral or flat footed shoes like asics eta speed, saucony endorphin speed, or nike vaporflies..
I'm a fan of the Sole brand of insoles (custom via home heat molding). as a big dude who used to not have arches, they've helped everything. I've got arches now, my stride is semi-normal, my knee cartilage doesn't bark at the slightest hint of athletic activity anymore (MCL is a different story, but that happens when you tear a tendon). my arches still tend to collapse on their own so I might be stuck for life with some sort of insole, but overall it's been pretty life changing. also there's next to no break in time, which really makes that first adaptation period a breeze. secondarily, having them in every pair of shoes of x amount of years has given me a consistent base to compare shoes. it takes a while to get used to, but I've been more able to tell the effects of different shoe tech because of a lack of various foot pain. it's kind of backwards to what most people feel, but it works for me as a mostly explosive-motion sports person. who knows how that will change if I start doing more distance running though. my super inefficient wide clodhopper feet have always been super picky, but that seems to be changing a little. hopefully all that made sense.
You definitely over pronates a bit I noticed in your videos but I definitely would recommend Fleet Feet over roadrunner especially with their fit ID system and their insoles are cheaper and reward system much better!😁
since you dont have injury and structural issue and you cant return custom made insole. Your experience not a favourable one in running in them. Just put them in a walking shoe or casual shoe or a work shoe may have better results in standing all day or walking.
Having problems with my arch and by using Softsole Plantar Fascia insoles with my Nike Zoom Fly SP, so far so good. Trying out Protalus but too expensive. I would love to try the process of having custom made insoles. What is the brand of the machine n insoles?
I’ve tried them twice the Superfeet brand they never work out for me. I run in the Brooks Adrenaline GTS19 and they are just not needed. They are so annoying and uncomfortable to me. I do have issues with over pronating but for right now the shoes are correcting the problem pain free.
Here are my thoughts on this matter, companies are spending millions upon millions designing high-tech midsole materials, whether its a E-TPU material, rubber based foam like the React and so much more. An insole company cannot compete and give the user a noticeably better cushoning technology just with old school foam, and for 75 USD, add 10 or so USD and you can get a Pegasus 35, its just highway robbery. Custom insoles may however have a place for those who need to wear dress shoes and want more comfort, but in running shoes where the midsole technology is already so advanced its pointless
i hear what you're saying, but the way i tried to look at it wasn't necessarily whether the insole was better at cushioning than boost or BioMoGo. I tried to look at whether the insole gave me a better fit or foot position so that my foot could better work with the Boost or BioMoGo. It didn't quite work out that way for me, and it sounds like it hasn't for you. but I don't think you or I are the core audience for this kind of thing.
i was expecting it to be more like when people talk about how they like a shoe with an ortholite insole. heavier, yes. but with a positive tradeoff in terms of comfort
At Dicks Sporting Goods, you can use whatever you buy for however long you like and then return it. Seriously. You can buy a pair of shoes, run a marathon in them, and then return them. As long as you have the receipt, you can return items in any condition.
it's a shoe i've tried to like. granted, i had the GTX version, but the heel from the midsole up to the ankle just kept fighting (correcting?) me. i go into it in much more specificity in my 100 mile review th-cam.com/video/lLnjTJNGL9U/w-d-xo.html
Would you put those insoles inside a Vaporfly too? would it fit? Would it be better "stability"? Wide flatfooter asking. And, wow, i got the exact same sensation on the Pegasus 35 Shield, on the right foot...
Three things that kind of confused me. 1. What use is it to watch you run barefoot? I would imagine the form you actually use would be different as you run in shoes not barefoot. 2. The fact that the machines did not suggest you should use a stability shoe is incorrect. Listening to your experiences I understand stability shoes don’t work for you. But if they were using your actual bio mechanics they would suggest stability shoes. 3. Inserts come in 2 forms. Customize your fit or correct arch issues etc. It appears (as you still over pronated) that you paid $75 for them to create an insert that made a more customized fit rather than finding a better fitting shoe. IMO
I'm not a sports scientist, healthcare professional, or biomechanics expert, but here's what i understand: 1. Barefoot is intended to shoe what your foot does by itself. Think of it as a control or baseline 2. I disagree. I think that people conflate pronation that is normal with overpronation, which I think is more of a diagnosis. I think I pronate. I may even "overpronate" but if I do I would classify it as subclinical. And the side effects of trying to correct would substantially outweigh the benefits, if any. I think the system got it right. 3. I'm sure inserts come in many types. I had experience with none of them. That was the whole point of me going. Trying something new. Trying to learn about what's out there.
I have approximately 450 miles in my RR insoles. I never really liked them, but I gave them an honest shot. I have the same situation with my arches as you. I wore them in the epic react 1 and the adidas pureboost DPR. I always felt the insole made the shoe firmer. Did you find the same? I don't mind firmness for speed, but why add extra weight with the insole while doing speed work? That's why I ditched them. I'd love to hear your opinions of different adidas shoes. I really hope Adidas will use Boost lite in years to come. The DPR came so close to becoming a great versatile shoe.
I remember when the DPR first came out, I was so impressed with it, but I never bought it because I couldn't imagine spending $150 on shoes. ah, those were the days (2 years ago?)
A good LRS can do the exact same thing with knowledge and a trained eye. Don't get dazzled with the bells and whistles presented. This is a company out of San Diego that honesty has no investment in the local communities and could give a rats ass about supporting that community. They make about $ 70 profit for a pair of insoles and the margins are just as high on their socks and clothing. Ohh ask how much Adidas pays them to present their shoes first before bringing out the other shoes. Lastly if you return a shoe they will resell them on a table in the store. That's fine if they are in good condition, but typically they receive full credit from the manufacturer on returns so that just exacerbates their profits
I don't even know what LRS stands for, let alone would I be able to determine whether they have the requisite knowledge and trained eye you prescribe. Was this system for me? Not really. But I don't think I'm the target audience. For someone without experience or vocabulary to describe their needs, I think it provides a great place to start.
@@kofuziIts the acronym for Local Running Store.. If I came off poorly I apologize. I love your videos and look forward to when they come out. I just have the issue with Roadrunner since seeing their operation first hand and their business practices Keep up the great work
@@kofuzi i had flat foot so they made me custom insoles and it really helped me develop arch, I have 2 pairs and I payed them a lot but imo it was worth it. One pair is really beaten but now I use it for walking and fresher one for running.
Just go to your podiatrist. Way better, sturdier insoles for next to nothing with insurance. And a podiatrist is trained to work with feet, not trained to sell you stuff.
Sounds like you’ve been wearing your shoes too narrow and/or small and have the beginnings of a neuroma. If the hot spots and discomfort in the front of the foot continue I’d see a foot doctor.
i mean, yes and no. if you need arch support (which i don't think i do), it's not like the factory insole is going to mold up to meet you. my personal preference is to feel more of the midsole, so i will generally want as little between me and the midsole as possible. but i know a lot of runners who need a bit more cushion that what a factory insert provides, much like how some shoes ship with two insoles.
I truly appreciate how precisely you think things through mentally, and the selection of your words when conveying your thoughts ! I am exactly the same when speaking of architecture. My daughter calls it being picky, I prefer selective and precise ......... keep up the great work, much appreciated !!!
I know how you feel. I often get accused of similar.
DEW virgos maybe?? 😂😂
I got fitted for shoes & insoles by the same road runner store in the city and really helped my plantar fasciitis. I never thought about getting insoles until I needed them but really love them now!
that's great! about how many miles do you get out of your insoles?
Agreed. I take the approach of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” If I don’t have issues, I feel like changing things could definitely create problems.
same.
Also agree, “if it ain’t broke...”. On the other hand if it is broke, as in plantar pain, a little arch support may be helpful.
One of your most interesting videos. Pretty cool they invited you for that, it's a sign of your channel growth!
stay tuned. a lot of new adventures in the works!
Yesterday I went through the exact same exercise at roadrunner sports, I was really impressed. But again I need more time to really see how I feel about the custom insoles, I got one of their Max cushions for my everyday work shoes because I stand in the warehouse all day as a mechanic, engineer. Also got their mid cushion that they recommend more for running for my everyday running shoes and got a new pair of hookahs that I really liked. I need more time to really see how I feel about the custom inserts but they do like you said make all the shoes kind of feel the same and a little tight at first. But overall I like how it hugs my Arch. It makes it feel like a more complete shoe.
I would really like a review of the pureboost GO! The only running reviews of pureboosts are the one of Jami's.
I think that pureboosts and solar boost/solar glide are not recieving enough light from the running community.
PS: Kudo for the honest review. Good work.
I was encouraged by what I experienced with the Pureboost Go. I'm hoping I can get to it.
@@kofuzi My experience with insoles is negative, i have tried several "antishock" sorbothane insoles last summer and a custom insoles made by an orthopedic technician
when i was younger (i don't remeber why i was suggested to use them) and everytime i have fatigue/pain under the arches of my feet. I don't have flat feet or other particular condintions so maybe for me insoles are just a solution for a problem that i don't have...
I am currently using (100km today) pureboost 2017 model, and i really like them. The more i use them the more i like them wich doens't make sense since running shoes degrades with wear.
I prefer them over the epic react 2018 that i bought last week beacause epic react have a little bit of arch support but i only used the react for two slow and short runs...even the pureboost17 were not "comfortable" the first 10-20km.
I think it's interesting in measuring how your foot can change. I started as a moderate stability shoe, did a lot of barefoot running because of martial arts, strengthened my legs a lot and my whole fit shifted. I'm not sure why exactly but I'm now a neutral runner with very little heel impact.
I went through this same type of experience with insoles. You summed it up perfectly: "Just like you wouldn't give medications to someone who isn't sick, I was only feeling the side effects without getting any benefits that would make those side effects worth bearing." Thanks!
i think for some people, they are a godsend. i am just not one of those people. it doesn't mean they're bad, they're just not for me right now
Agree with Dewrunning, you’ve nailed it.
Old video but still helpful. For years I've needed custom orthotics and off the shelf insoles for all walking shoes and my clipless cycling shoes.
With size 11 feet most makers assume American men need D width, but mine are very narrow, A or B, with high arches on both feet. Many boots and work shoes are so wide on my feet I need added insoles and arch supports just to keep my feet from flopping around loosely, and so the lace eyes don't overlap.
I've tried many expensive custom orthotics and off the rack insoles and have settled on ProFoot Miracles as the best value at only $8-10. They're comparable to the standard adidas insole on most Boost shoes, but a bit thinner and gradually compress to a form fit where needed. I replace them once or twice a year. Highly recommended. TBH, none of the expensive custom orthotics or insoles costing more than around $20 were worth the money. Some made things worse, as you've described.
But it's tricky with running shoes - some benefit from a replacement or supplemental insole, other shoes are worse with anything other than the factory insole. After buying shoes I'll carry a pair of insoles in a pocket in case I need them to reduce midfoot arch strain. Some runs I need the extra insoles, some runs I don't. Often I'll trim the ProFoot Miracles to leave room in the heel cup and toe box
And it's possible the wrong insoles, or lack thereof, contributes to my occasional bouts with shin splints and strained fibularis longus muscles. Or maybe my running form is just terrible and I need more physical therapy to work the legs, glutes and torso. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Love your honesty and transparency as always, straight off the bat you know you're gonna get a good review from you! Very interesting thoughts on this, i've never had my gait tested or anything like this, would love to know what they find!
next i'd like to do a VO2 Max test with the tubes and wires.
Great video, just got my custom insole. A little pricey but like yourself, I go thru about 5 pair per yrs. I clock in about 10 miles/day🏃🏾
Clifton 8 are my go to
i discovered that custom orthotics fit best in a max cushion shoe with no plastic in the sole. such as the trust system. Any stability shoe would be like putting a arch support on top of an arch support. I have the orthotic in Asics Novablast 2 and works well. I am trying it in the wave rider 25 which has a thin wave plate and acts as a spring rather than stability but I am still comparing with original insole. Thus a max cushion is the best then you should notice difference.
Great review!I agree with your thoughts.Had something similar and took for ever to get used to them.Felt muscles that I never thought I had.I think if you have issues running normally then they are helpful.
i'll definitely keep them around though, just in case
A local running shop in my city has a very similar setup where you can have your your feet mapped out and your stride recorded/analyzed. They gave me a couple shoe recommendations and a pair of insoles to go along with them. I skipped on the insoles as they felt stiff and I had never ran in specialized insoles before, but the shoe recommendation was actually spot on with their top pick being the brooks glycerin which felt absolutely amazing on foot but had a price tag of $170 at the time so I had to “settle” for a pair of Pegasus 34’s. Overall it was a pretty enjoyable experience and seemingly did exactly what they claimed it would, put me in a pair of good shoes that would work with my biomechanics, but I’ll second the point you made that insoles probably just aren’t for everyone 🤷🏻♂️ Great video as always!
thanks so much for the input! glad to hear about your experience. have you since had a chance to try the glycerin? super curious to see how those would feel for you
kofuzi I have not, for better or worse I made the switch to lower heel drop shoes (6mm or lower) to help with my forefoot strike and most brooks shoes run 8mm or higher. So I mostly run in altras, hokas, and some of Nike’s racing shoes nowadays. It was an older model glycerin that I had tried on, probably two versions prior to the current, but it definitely felt like something I would’ve enjoyed in my rotation at the time as a good daily mileage or long run workhorse. All these thoughts of course only being formed from a quick jog and walk around in the running shop so nothing concrete, but they’re probably at least worth reading into or even trying on if you’re looking new shoes for some upcoming spring miles 👍🏼
I could not agree more, my first running shoes were stability because of a pushy salesman, I found out I was a neutral because my wife chose some Nike Zoom Elite 8 for my birthday a couple years back and now neutral is here to stay!
what have you been running in lately?
Nike Zoom Fly and Pegasus 35 also Streak 6s that refuse to die!
Thanks! Your information was super valuable. Still not sure the insoles are working for me. "Fatigue" is an accurate word to describe how my feet are feeling after walking with the insoles.
This is kinda crazy. I went to my local running shop (under a different name). They have the same machine there and they measured my foot. They also said my left foot was normal but my right arch was high.
The super nice guy there recommended a different brand arch support. I wasn’t sure. But I decided to bite the bullet and I bought the insoles. They felt comfortable enough walking in.
I put these in my New Balance Fresh Foam X Tempos. I’m feeling fatigue in the middle of my foot. I search for road runner insoles. What do you know... I find your video and I’ve got to say you described it exactly how I felt.
Mind you, I’m only doing my drills before my run. So I take them out and my feel seem so much happier! I’ve never had prob with needing insoles (🤞🏻/✊🏻🪵) but I’m fairly certain I don’t need them.
Also -side note they measured my feet an entire size different from left to right in addition to getting the sizes wrong. I wear between 12-12.5 depending on the brand. They measuring scale thing said I should fit a 10.5 in my left and an 11.5 in my right foot.
I have actually worked for Fleet Feet for about 2.5 years now and would of probably suggested a neutral shoe based on a minimal amount of pronation happening. The thing that I like to always tell the people I help with is that the human body naturally pronates a bit, but also supinates at the same time in order to get a neutral stride. It’s mainly when the foot and ankle pronates in good amount is when I prefer them in a stiffer shoe(I say stiffer shoe not stability shoe because I have learned that some shoes that are labeled neutral can have a hint of stability in them, just have to know the shoes well). As for the insole I would most likely of recommended you one since by looks your arch falls down a decent amount when you put pressure on your feet. But that’s just by looks not actually being there so not really sure of course. The insole should have a plastic piece that will be a little uncomfortable for a couple of weeks but I always recommend to people that they should ease their way into the insole. Example would be to wear it for a couple of hours a day or one day on and another off until you are ready for them daily. I know this is a long comment but just wanted to let people know what I thought. I really enjoy watching your videos and hearing your opinions about running in general. Thank you.
I watch myself run in slow motion quite a bit, but almost never while barefoot. So it was interesting to see what was going on with my arch. And the whole experience has me thinking more about foot strength
I very much enjoyed your considered approach to the review given your skepticism.
A few years ago, following a break from running, i spent far too much time (+ money) on gait analysis and custom insoles. I later realised that they really only served a purpose as a preparatory mechanism to orient my foot prior to foot strike and that once my foot muscles had regained strength the insoles were essentially superfluous.
I think that they would be better considered as 'trainer wheels', and that a greater emphasis on analyses of foot musculature/strike, before and after some professional gait analysis and correction, would serve these running shops better.
i would tend to agree. but i think there's a range of opinions on what a healthy foot strike looks like.
@@kofuzi Sorry to hijack this thread, but was trying to make a comment on your original video but I think it might be locked. Unfortunately, I was cursed with extra wide to wide feet all my life, so I lived with shoe pain since I was 7. Now at 52, I am still limited with shoes choices. Been getting back to into shape and losing weight but been feeling pain at balls of right foot with burning/needle like pain in underside phalanges of middle toes at the 2.5-3 mile mark of my walk. This is new sensation in last couple months. I would rate the pain at 7 of 10. Note: In my past, I have broken some major bones and had severe laceration up to 30 stiches, so pain is always something the goes away. Anyhow. I can finish my 8-10 mile walk by pushing through. Thinking back, I wore my new pair of rollerblades that felt like a hammer being applied to my metatarsal for too long one day. So, I think it might be the root cause of Morton’s neuroma symptoms. According to RR, I have 8 2E in left foot and 8.5 3E in right foot, high arches that are symmetrical on both feet. I tried $80 custom insoles and they did help so now I start to feel the pain at the 5-6 mile mark of my walk and the pain now is at about level 6 in my NB Fresh Foam 1080 V10. I am thinking about getting a second pair of insoles for my trail shoes, Fresh Foam Hierro v5. Here are my questions: You mentioned a similar pain in your right foot like mine. What list shoes do you recommend (asking for a list because not all shoes have 2E and 4E available)? Do you recommend anything else that got rid of your pain? Do you have experience with the Superfeet ME3D or any other custom insoles since your posting in 02/2019. FYI recently came across your youtube channel, love your work and insight. From one Asian bother to another, keep up your great work.
This is a question I have asked myself, so thanks for this video, really helped.
thanks for watching! so far, it's seemed like there people who have been running for a while and have had issues that the insoles have been able to resolve. but for people who have been running without major issue, it hasn't seemed to have much benefit.
Yes yes yes I needed this video! I feel the exact same about these systems! I never used to run in stability shoes and had 0 injuries. I started running in stability shoes because that’s what the running store fitted me into and I have had back to back injuries in my feet, ankles, hips and hamstring since. I’ve been thinking about transitioning to a 0 drop minimalist shoe. Have you ever tried any of that kind? Nice video!
I haven't tried a minimalist shoe. I understand the appeal, but it's not something that has really captured my attention yet.
I am not a runner but I work on my feet every day if I can wear boots I am fine but when I am inside all day and need to be wearing a regular shoe my feet start hurting in an hour, they fit
Me for the black insoles and helped me find a PROPER FITTING shoe and they are great, they are a stability shoe but I have had 4 knee surgeries and 3 ankle surgeries and have a bad back so I won’t complain about it because I am finally comfortable
I know this is old by my Pegasus 36 are the same way! The right shoes is a lot stiffer in the ball of the foot area. The left is almost to soft. Glad I am not the only one. Might see if I can exchange them...
I cut out any section of an insole that I can feel on my arch or I remove the insole and replace it with a dead flat $1 in-sole. So much better fit and more comfortable. Try it. Dr Kelly Starrett’s book Ready to Run page 61...’Contrary to long-held beliefs, the arch of the foot is a non-weight-bearing surface. The idea that ligaments stretch out and the arch collapses buys into the misconception that the arch needs to be held up by something else.’ It goes on to make it clear that we don’t need supports we need to improve our feet strength and mobility. Even Jamil Coury in one of his vlogs speaks about refusing to wear support trainers. If its good enough for Jam Jam it’s good enough for me.
Jamil is a beast who can casually run a sub 3 at the NYC Marathon while holding a gimbal and microphone
I've had these in a number of Ghosts for about two years, dunno if they have any life left in them. I'll try them in my Hyperion Tempos and Saucany's coming in this week.
I also used them for the first 6 months when i started to get into running. used these soles in combo with altra torin 4. . I reached a point when i felt i didnt need them anymore. Im okay to move forward without them. I would consider recalibrating ...
Today I went to roadrunner’s perfect fit process. While I did spring for their custom insole, I wanted to confirm my shoe size, width. They came up with ½ size larger shoe size and lowered the width from 4e to 3e. I already knew I needed an arch support. Too soon to say if Roadrunner’s molded inserts are helpful. Plantar fasciitis pain want going away on it own. Fingers crossed.
Let me know how it goes. I hope things work out!
I trained the guy years ago that made your insoles! Personally I think everyone can benefit from some type of extra insole support but I don't think they are for everyone. Superfeet started making true custom insolea, not heated up plates they bend and shape to your feet. (Road Runner Sports employees do push the sales of insoles because their jobs depend on hitting their sales goals.)
Evan did a great job. He was very patient with me. I'm sure I asked 5x the number of questions any normal customer might ask.
A few years ago my high school track team did a "shoe night" every season. I went to Road Runners and got a custom insole. For a couple years I really loved it because it made every shoe fit my foot the same way and used it through three pairs of shoes. More recently after I began a shift away from stability shoes and to neutral shoes, I found myself not needing the support from the insole anymore, and wanting to have a softer ride by just using stock insoles.
that's an interesting observation. thanks for sharing your experience!
about how many miles do you think you got out of your insoles?
Great review as usual.
Was the insoles feeling the same you felt on the Kinvara 9?
Im also skeptical about custom insoles, but Im still wondering if some sort of insoles could help a shoe to change for instance their running range (e.g.: add a bit more cushion to a race flat and manage to do a half marathon, as Im heavier and my knees require more than a flat for longer distance). Didn’t dare to try yet but something I have in mind...
I struggle with running stores too. They provide a lot of info on my feet and what they think will work best for me, but I always need to run 5-10 miles to tell if I want to keep shoes.
have you ever returned a pair of shoes that didn't work after 10 miles? i've never done it
kofuzi I have returned one pair right around 10 miles. The others I returned before running that long. I would not hesitate to take advantage of a good return policy, though you shouldn’t abuse it of course. I think you can get banned if they think you are abusing a return policy.
My wife returned a pair of Brooks Adrenaline after running 10 miles in them. She’d previously had problems with Brooks when she was in the army but this running store recommended a pair and we figured since it’d been quite some time ago, perhaps they’d changed and would be okay to run in. She started having the same pains and issues she had previously so we took them back. They then recommended a neutral shoe, Saucony echelon 7, and shes loved them. The store was incredibly helpful throughout the whole process, no issues returning them(of course she didn’t abuse them either,) and they said if she had problems with the new ones to just bring them back as well.
Hey, been watching for a while (November 2018 or so). Just wanted to let you know we are similar age, shoe size, body build etc. Your reviews have been pretty spot on with my likes and dislikes in shoes I have used. I am a little more of a heal tap to midfoot striker then you which usually affects how a shoe feels... Anywas with that said I rarely run Nike but I tend to find a shoe and stick with it for a while if its a good one. Also recently got fitted for an insole/orthotic for soreness in my right foot under the ball. used them for a while and went back to insoles that come with the shoes, LOL.
I am glad to see you tried on a pair of Brooks Launch. I have run almost all of the brooks neutral shoes and the Launch has been by far my go to shoe. I would like to see your take on them if you do end up trying them out. Some other shoes I have liked NB Beacon, Nike zoomfly fly knit, Brooks Glycerin 16 (anything before the 16 I have hated).
thanks so much for watching!
what was the difference in the 16 that changed your mind on the Glycerin?
I am not sure but the other versions felt like bricks to me. They changed to all "loft" foam for the 16, might be why. it felt responsive but also very cushy. They are a little heavier then I tend to like but I didn't notice it with the 16. smooth like a Cadillac. :)
very interesting. thanks!
i recommend the DR SCHOLS sport gel insoles they cost $15. they make 2 styles definitely get the heel support cup (will be blue and yellow) NOT the midfoot-plastic one..
but i think the midfoot plastic is the only part i'd need.
?
Great video
Hey just came across this video and your take on the insoles being like prescribing medicine to someone whose not sick is very relatable. I would like to know, what's your opinion on using an (hard) insole or custom orthotic in a shoe with a carbon plate already in the shoe?
The same caveats would apply. I also think it would mute/deaden the dynamics of the plate from a propulsion standpoint
Do you have a high arch foot? Im looking for an insole and hopefully use a carbon plated shoe like a high arch foot runner like me. Is it really recommended for a high arch to have an insole then try it in a neutral or flat footed shoes like asics eta speed, saucony endorphin speed, or nike vaporflies..
I'm a fan of the Sole brand of insoles (custom via home heat molding). as a big dude who used to not have arches, they've helped everything. I've got arches now, my stride is semi-normal, my knee cartilage doesn't bark at the slightest hint of athletic activity anymore (MCL is a different story, but that happens when you tear a tendon). my arches still tend to collapse on their own so I might be stuck for life with some sort of insole, but overall it's been pretty life changing. also there's next to no break in time, which really makes that first adaptation period a breeze.
secondarily, having them in every pair of shoes of x amount of years has given me a consistent base to compare shoes. it takes a while to get used to, but I've been more able to tell the effects of different shoe tech because of a lack of various foot pain. it's kind of backwards to what most people feel, but it works for me as a mostly explosive-motion sports person. who knows how that will change if I start doing more distance running though. my super inefficient wide clodhopper feet have always been super picky, but that seems to be changing a little. hopefully all that made sense.
makes complete sense to me. thanks so much for sharing your experience!
YES YOU DO.
You definitely over pronates a bit I noticed in your videos but I definitely would recommend Fleet Feet over roadrunner especially with their fit ID system and their insoles are cheaper and reward system much better!😁
my running buddy had tried the Fleet Feet insoles a couple months ago. So we did trade a bunch of notes
since you dont have injury and structural issue and you cant return custom made insole. Your experience not a favourable one in running in them. Just put them in a walking shoe or casual shoe or a work shoe may have better results in standing all day or walking.
Having problems with my arch and by using Softsole Plantar Fascia insoles with my Nike Zoom Fly SP, so far so good. Trying out Protalus but too expensive. I would love to try the process of having custom made insoles. What is the brand of the machine n insoles?
i'm not sure the brand, but it is available at any Road Runner Sports location
Nice Non elite top! Where can you get one please?
it's a limited release, and I think particular shirt is sold out. but when I do Non Elite gear, it's with Path Projects at path projects.com/kofuzi
@@kofuzi thanks for your reply mate! Keep up the good work 👍
I just got the Launch 6 and NB Beacon recently.
what do you think about the Launch?
I like them. Same color way as you tried on. I have the Launch 4, the 6s are a little softer, which I like.
interesting. thanks!
I’ve tried them twice the Superfeet brand they never work out for me. I run in the Brooks Adrenaline GTS19 and they are just not needed. They are so annoying and uncomfortable to me. I do have issues with over pronating but for right now the shoes are correcting the problem pain free.
i think the Adrenaline may have a lot of the same features/functions that the insole is trying to provide
Here are my thoughts on this matter, companies are spending millions upon millions designing high-tech midsole materials, whether its a E-TPU material, rubber based foam like the React and so much more.
An insole company cannot compete and give the user a noticeably better cushoning technology just with old school foam, and for 75 USD, add 10 or so USD and you can get a Pegasus 35, its just highway robbery.
Custom insoles may however have a place for those who need to wear dress shoes and want more comfort, but in running shoes where the midsole technology is already so advanced its pointless
i hear what you're saying, but the way i tried to look at it wasn't necessarily whether the insole was better at cushioning than boost or BioMoGo. I tried to look at whether the insole gave me a better fit or foot position so that my foot could better work with the Boost or BioMoGo. It didn't quite work out that way for me, and it sounds like it hasn't for you. but I don't think you or I are the core audience for this kind of thing.
Custom insoles are almost always heavier than those that come with the shoe, just something to be aware of.
i was expecting it to be more like when people talk about how they like a shoe with an ortholite insole. heavier, yes. but with a positive tradeoff in terms of comfort
At Dicks Sporting Goods, you can use whatever you buy for however long you like and then return it. Seriously. You can buy a pair of shoes, run a marathon in them, and then return them. As long as you have the receipt, you can return items in any condition.
I may be wrong, but I think you have to do this within 90 days.
i gotta have the receipt?!?
I believe so yes.
Matthew Nicholson you are right, 90 days, but you can beat the crap of out the item and they’ll take it back
Yes, I ran in some Nike Structures years ago that were too firm, returned them for the Pegasus like a month later.
Dude you should grow a stash. XD
I'm planning of going to a local rs store today to get a fit.
I would look like a sushi chef
@@kofuzi hahha right.
Now what exactly is all this “extra stuff” the ghost has going on? it’s a neutral shoe, no guide rails or any stability elements
it's a shoe i've tried to like. granted, i had the GTX version, but the heel from the midsole up to the ankle just kept fighting (correcting?) me. i go into it in much more specificity in my 100 mile review
th-cam.com/video/lLnjTJNGL9U/w-d-xo.html
What shoes did you buy
I only bought insoles that day. The shoes I came home with were shoes that Road Runner has sent for review. One of them was the Odyssey React 2.
Would you put those insoles inside a Vaporfly too? would it fit? Would it be better "stability"? Wide flatfooter asking.
And, wow, i got the exact same sensation on the Pegasus 35 Shield, on the right foot...
Three things that kind of confused me.
1. What use is it to watch you run barefoot? I would imagine the form you actually use would be different as you run in shoes not barefoot.
2. The fact that the machines did not suggest you should use a stability shoe is incorrect. Listening to your experiences I understand stability shoes don’t work for you. But if they were using your actual bio mechanics they would suggest stability shoes.
3. Inserts come in 2 forms. Customize your fit or correct arch issues etc. It appears (as you still over pronated) that you paid $75 for them to create an insert that made a more customized fit rather than finding a better fitting shoe. IMO
I'm not a sports scientist, healthcare professional, or biomechanics expert, but here's what i understand:
1. Barefoot is intended to shoe what your foot does by itself. Think of it as a control or baseline
2. I disagree. I think that people conflate pronation that is normal with overpronation, which I think is more of a diagnosis. I think I pronate. I may even "overpronate" but if I do I would classify it as subclinical. And the side effects of trying to correct would substantially outweigh the benefits, if any. I think the system got it right.
3. I'm sure inserts come in many types. I had experience with none of them. That was the whole point of me going. Trying something new. Trying to learn about what's out there.
Where did you get that shirt?! I want one!
Wear it with the Vaporfly 4% Flyknit
i ran on a charity bib with Salute Inc. Their charity partner were the Blackhawks that year.
i, um, can't run in my vaporfly flyknit anymore
Lol now I see why. Congrats!
I have approximately 450 miles in my RR insoles. I never really liked them, but I gave them an honest shot. I have the same situation with my arches as you.
I wore them in the epic react 1 and the adidas pureboost DPR. I always felt the insole made the shoe firmer. Did you find the same? I don't mind firmness for speed, but why add extra weight with the insole while doing speed work? That's why I ditched them.
I'd love to hear your opinions of different adidas shoes. I really hope Adidas will use Boost lite in years to come. The DPR came so close to becoming a great versatile shoe.
I remember when the DPR first came out, I was so impressed with it, but I never bought it because I couldn't imagine spending $150 on shoes. ah, those were the days (2 years ago?)
@@kofuzi yep, two years ago lol
hey cool song!
Thanks! I've been using Epidemic Sound. Pretty happy with it.
You run with pain every run?
not typically
HI
$75 bucks really? I just paid my podiatrist nearly $700!!!
A good LRS can do the exact same thing with knowledge and a trained eye. Don't get dazzled with the bells and whistles presented. This is a company out of San Diego that honesty has no investment in the local communities and could give a rats ass about supporting that community. They make about $ 70 profit for a pair of insoles and the margins are just as high on their socks and clothing. Ohh ask how much Adidas pays them to present their shoes first before bringing out the other shoes. Lastly if you return a shoe they will resell them on a table in the store. That's fine if they are in good condition, but typically they receive full credit from the manufacturer on returns so that just exacerbates their profits
I don't even know what LRS stands for, let alone would I be able to determine whether they have the requisite knowledge and trained eye you prescribe. Was this system for me? Not really. But I don't think I'm the target audience. For someone without experience or vocabulary to describe their needs, I think it provides a great place to start.
@@kofuziIts the acronym for Local Running Store.. If I came off poorly I apologize. I love your videos and look forward to when they come out. I just have the issue with Roadrunner since seeing their operation first hand and their business practices
Keep up the great work
I have the same insoles, and they felt the same for me too, waste
how do you feel running without them?
When I ran with the insoles, I didnt notice anything, but in my opinion, they made my shoe heavier.
Oh without them, it’s just the same
that makes sense
$75 is way too much to spend on an insole, IMO.
it felt like a lot of money to me. but i also forgot to ask how many miles people get out of them.
@@kofuzi i had flat foot so they made me custom insoles and it really helped me develop arch, I have 2 pairs and I payed them a lot but imo it was worth it. One pair is really beaten but now I use it for walking and fresher one for running.
Just go to your podiatrist. Way better, sturdier insoles for next to nothing with insurance. And a podiatrist is trained to work with feet, not trained to sell you stuff.
Sounds like you’ve been wearing your shoes too narrow and/or small and have the beginnings of a neuroma. If the hot spots and discomfort in the front of the foot continue I’d see a foot doctor.
that's what people have been telling me.
I think insoles r useless because if you think about it it’s a tiny piece of foam or rubber and the ones in your shoes will mold to your foot anyways.
i mean, yes and no. if you need arch support (which i don't think i do), it's not like the factory insole is going to mold up to meet you.
my personal preference is to feel more of the midsole, so i will generally want as little between me and the midsole as possible. but i know a lot of runners who need a bit more cushion that what a factory insert provides, much like how some shoes ship with two insoles.