WOW. Kramnik Goes After Hikaru On Cheating At Chess
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2023
- WOW. Vladimir Kramnik Goes After Hikaru Nakamura On Cheating At Chess.
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Kramnik just blundered his position on anti cheating.
Well spoken!
So Hikaru can look at chat, play chess against strong players, AND look at stockfish all at the same time while crushing (almost) everyone? That’s pretty impressive to do all at once
at this level you only need to see the move that gets you out of a jam, not all sequence of moves. that's how the accusation against hans started, he wasn't accused of getting all moves cheated to him, but getting a signal if in certain situations he needs to look for a 'brilliant' move or not.
in any case, lots of streaming personalities came out in defence of hikaru, from gm hansen (chessbrah) to this guy.
@@BG-mw5pt yes, but none of this applies if you just watch THIS short video explaining how the discussion of "1 move" cheating isn't even relevant in this accusation. this accusation is just plain lazy homework by kramnik. it's like googling some random title, not reading the book, and submitting your assignment. that's what kramnik did here.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Hikaru must be abusing superpowers to either stop or slow down time. Allowing him to have a snack, analyze games, and calculate human-looking moves without any of us knowing.
Whats good for hans good for hikaru, magnus and others.
You don't need to get hint for all moves, just one is enough.
This is why don't accuse if there is no proof.
@@KumarBendrakethats nothing if people think hans had supercomputer sitting with him against magnus in on the board game.
To drive home how ridiculous these accusatations are:
With a 400 rating difference, Hikaru is expected to win ~91% of his games. So the question becomes, how likely is it that a 91% likely event happens 45/46 times? The answer is ~1.5 %.
While 1.5% might seem low at first, consider how many tens of thousands of games Hikaru has played. The odds of him going on a streak like this is almost a statistical certainty. It would be suspicious if he DIDN'T have a streak like this some where.
the rating difference should be higher too cause he's playing against ims and fms. the actual ratings should be used
that would make too much sense from the salty grandpa @@karlralph2003
Great analysis. Hikaru has played scores (if not hundreds) of sessions with roughly 46 games against opposition at this levels. Sooner or later, something like this is bound to happen.
We are too quick to play the cheater card to explain unusual outcomes. Hikaru himself has played the cheater card to explain the unusual. Given enough chances, unusual outcomes will occur. Be careful playing the cheater card to explain the unusual.
@@SwampCritter-df4od you tried
Hikaru is expected to play better in 91% of his games rather than winning though bc u can probably play dirty and flagging in 9% of the losing positions.
Kramnik is getting paranoic. I don't like Hikaru, but The accusation is absurd. Hikaru is one of the Best blitz players of all time.
I agree, also, cheating in blizz would be extradifficuot consider how little time you have to make the moves, right?
Wtf is “paranoic”?
shit man, how can you not like hikaru?
Exactly, i dont like Hikis arrogance or his poor explanation if games but you still respect his play. Kramnik has been out of it for a while now
It's not arrogance, its autism.
If you look at those games even against IM and FMs which he mostly played his accuracy is way below that of a machine, I think everyone knows Hikaru would never cheat, he has too much respect for himself and the game.
Innocent until proven guilty.
He could cheat, to equalize chances, because so many people cheating in cheating tuesday. Consider how many guys like lazovik in online chess, who suck OTB, but great in online, cheater amount in chess is big. It's not only Kramnik, Caruana also disappointed why he sucked so much more in online than OTB.
@@ericiverson3441 bro this isn't a court of law
Naka would never bro, i'm not his fanboy. He would never, his ego wouldnt allow it. Like, he has played 21k games, how can someone not believe, someone at his calliber, has reached this level of play after so many games. He's mastered the online blitz, he flows. I still think magnus is the best, but the consistency and calculation of Naka's, makes me doubt a bit. What a player
@@juliocadavid6640 Ego is literally a huge driver for people to cheat.
Wasn't Kramnik the guy who was suspected of cheating when he kept going to the washroom after every move in a World Championship match? Against Topalov I believe.
Yes, the "bathroom scandal"...
2006, he went to bathroom 40 times per game, and the match was in Russia...so the other team asked for a room inspection, for cables etc
Its the same sub human scum
😂 😂 😂
He's owning IM's and FM's at 78-82% accuracy levels. Hardly the trail of a cheater. In fact he's playing down to their level and still tactically crushing them. PUZZLE RUSH!
Ian tweeted a while back about Hikar wearing headphones. He is clearly supporting Kramnik's garbage
I'd like to see Hikaru reply with a very serious "Chess speaks for itself... Kramnik, you should know this." and bust out laughing.
"Cheating? Really? Cheating? Come on, I mean, come on.... noodles speak for themselves guys!"
Hikaru is a beast in speed chess, specifically bullet and 3min blitz format. Magnus had his testimony in that just a few months ago. And as you have shown in this video, the majority of those winning streaks were against IM, and Hikaru can adopt each and every one of them without actually playing perfect accurate games of chess. Kramnik is knocking on the wrong door here, I am afraid. Thanks for clearing the mud for us epic chess. Cheers
I appreciate that your headline is "hikaru accused of cheating" and not "hikaru cheating?!?"
Problem with cheating in blitz is that the time taken to cheat simply isn't there. Someone needs to feed it back into your butt or wherever by entering the moves into an engine and get the code right.
Wrong.
It's not that difficult to figure out position of pieces from broadcast using image recognition techniques. Then feed it to engine and transmit best move using to players butt plug via 433mhz radio. Butt plug will vibrate the move in morse code. This kind of cheating might be even very enjoyable :-)
At this level though you wouldn't need to cheat every move, Hikaru is absurdly strong regardless and has said himself that a strong player would just need to know they have an advantage to make them start looking for that killer move they could have otherwise missed. All that being said, this accusation is ridiculous Hikaru surely isn't cheating.
These are casual games so a cheater can have a computer program running simultaneously on another screen that he can refer to. But in tournament online games, the players have to set up a camera in their room showing the computer and screen that they're watching. These secondary shots can be monitored by arbiters.
He also used to cam his screens, he obviously will do it again.
You can watch Hikaru's video of him hitting the ELO milestone in real time AND making blunders, getting ticked at himself for it... As you said, lots of human moves and mistakes. He's planning in real time. A shame that Vladimir would seem to target him...
Vladimir used to have people's respect. This is going to end badly for him.
Hikaru was in the Zone , like sports players can quite regularly. When he's relaxed and buzzing, he's at his best.
Kramnik and Karjakin are two people you cant take serious anymore. Two clowns when they're not at a chess table
Imagine the extra time required to cheat.
@@drnantzyeah, exactly
*seriously
He's cheating by having the computer tell him how to flag someone with 1 second on the clock.
and if you google "Kramnik toiletgate"...a bit of history
The real shame is that this sort of noise against a legitimately strong player undermines the crusade to root out cheating in online chess.
Kramnik shot himself in the foot here a bit I feel.
.....as if Hans Neiman isn't a _legitimately strong player_ 😆
@@blaze1148 who has also cheated
@@thebcwonder4850 so what is your evidence apart his own admission that he cheated online 4 years ago....certainly no evidence he cheated when he played Magnus OTB....
@@blaze1148 he’s been a titled player since 2014… I’d assume cheating after that would be a red flag
@@blaze1148 With anal beads Hans Niemann definitely is a _legitimately strong player_ :)))))
Hikaru is the last person that would cheat in chess. Kramnik is pathetic at this point
You mean, Pathetic is Kramnik at this point =]
But Hans is because he smacked Magnus around OTB.
@@ItIsYouAreNotYour yup lol....that's what these dummies don't understand....shock horror some of the top players can actually beat Carlsen _without_ cheating.
@@blaze1148 Hans isn't a top player, at least not on the level of Carlsen.
Plus he's a guy, Kramnik, who's been accused of cheating himself and knows how that can tar someone for years, decades or life... and yet just blithely throws random paranoid shit at other people, seeing what will stick.
I have always thought your videos were extremely balanced and this didn't disappoint, I like the analysis of how crazy his game was against the GM, pretty funny.
Much appreciated!
Problem is people who are super good at chess like Kramnik dont have even most basic people skills. Anyone who has followed Nakamura or watched his stream for a time know he is not a cheater! Yes, he really IS that good!
It's good to see that I am not the only player with the eval bar going up and down like a yo-yo in a 60% to 70% game!
Love to see more chess news on your channel. Keep up your great work.
"My 50 most memorable accusations" - Kramnik
haha
@@epicchess2021 😆 😂
😄😄
Kramnik, the same guy who says players shouldn't use flagging to win lol
discovered your account while searching for Hikaru videos. Really liked the video, keep up ! And keep up exposing "Big Bad Vlad" 😂😂
The accusation is laughable
Some people cannot handle when they loose (a game or a presidency, for example). By ventilating their frustrations, they most of the time destroy all the respect they gained in the past.
The worst you can accuse Hikaru of is spawn camping.
Veselin Topalov's accusations against Kramnik had more weight than Kramnik's case against Hikaru.😢
Theres no way to stop cheating and at the GM level, its impossible to detect. Chess is now officially dead. RIP.
Yet again, honest commentary from a fantastic channel. Not afraid to say it how it is.I respect Kramnik immensely but he called it incorrectly in this instance
Thanks a lot and yeah same
Kramnik hitting that Krokodil.....or copious amounts of Vodka or something.
😂😂😂
niiice hahahahahaa
What goes around, comes around!!
That was impressive analysis. Thanks for putting some background on this claim.
It makes no sense, it is a great streak by Hikaru, but as you say its not against GMs and some of the games are not high accuracy.
So whats was the winning move for black at 4:28 in your video ?
Amazing how hard Kramnik is working to ruin his own legacy.
Kramnik went a lil too far 😂
If the best blitz player in the world does not crush IMs and FMs like that, I would be shocked.
Solution: X-rays. If we can see beads down there, then we can presume cheating.
😂
@@epicchess2021 Magnus accusing the way he did was in bad form. Then the next guy who beat him was wearing a watch and beads on his wrist, and Magnus alluded to the earlier cheating. Either I'm missing something, or these accusations are ludicrous.
I think Hikaru posted today all of those games on his channel
By overreaching like this, Kramnik is undoing alot of the good work he's done to expose cheating in Titled Tuesday. A shame.
Great example of the silliness.
Kramnik doing a Fischer.
Deeper story here. BIG BUSINESS doesn't want to accept a very big FACT. Online chess can NEVER be legitimized. Big business doesn't want to admit that. That's what the Hans accusations were really about. To give the appearance that it's all clean and they're on top of it. Only a FOOL would think you can control online cheating. But that illusion needs to be there in order people to trust it enough for business to move forward with it's exploitative plans, which really amount to a gambling scheme.
I understand your concerns about online chess and its susceptibility to cheating. There is no doubt that cheating is a problem in online chess, and it is difficult to prevent completely. However, I believe that it is possible to take steps to reduce cheating and make online chess more legitimate.
One important step is to have strong anti-cheating measures in place. This includes things like using chess engines to detect suspicious moves, requiring players to use webcams, and banning players who are caught cheating.
It is also important to create a culture of fair play in the online chess community. This means encouraging players to report cheating, and punishing players who are caught cheating.
Finally, it is important to remember that online chess is still a relatively new game, and it is still evolving. As the game matures, I believe that it will become more difficult to cheat, and online chess will become more legitimate.
Of course, there will always be some level of cheating in any competitive activity, including chess. But I believe that it is possible to make online chess a fair and legitimate game, and I hope that the chess community will continue to take steps to do so.
As for the Hans Niemann accusations, I believe that they were a necessary step in addressing the problem of cheating in online chess. The accusations forced the chess community to confront the issue of cheating, and they led to a number of important changes being made to online chess platforms.
I believe that the chess community is committed to making online chess a fair and legitimate game, and I am confident that we will continue to make progress in this area.
In conclusion, I believe that online chess can be legitimized, but it will require a concerted effort from the chess community. We need to take strong anti-cheating measures, create a culture of fair play, and continue to evolve the game. I am confident that we can make online chess a fair and enjoyable game for all.
Hikaru's big EGO cannot let him cheat
Pretty silly imo. Hikaru can smash IMs all day, as well as a lot of strong GMs.
Cheating is a real threat though, stronger players just need the eval bar to see when they need to stop and think.
Kramnik seems to have gone a bit too far on his anti cheating crusade.
In the game you showed at 4:47 the other player flagged yeah? How many of these games in the streak were also flags?
You might be right I didn't actually look closely and didn't check those stats in detail sorry! Good fair few no doubt
@@epicchess2021 I get that your rating takes that into account to some extent, but flagging happens a lot more often in blitz vs "proper" chess I reckon?
So what it's showing is your time management skills, vs chess skills per se.
Be interesting to see what the breakdown was?
Statistics are difficult and sanity is precious.
😂 I like that
Hello
I've been watching chess on utube since Agadmator had 20 000 followers. He was my absolute favorite. There where others, but... Then Levy, with his Gotham chess. He was fun, totally spaced out, but it was chess I was looking for. Not someone whos thoughts could go in any direction. Then I found one of your videos, now you are on par with Agadmator. If not even a nose length ahead. Youre good, enthusiastic and fun. Keep up the good work.
thanks very much appreciate it!
kramnik accused Hans few weeks ago now it is Hikaru. he doesn't like to loose like that
When I first heard this I thought 'well why not it wouldn't surprise me' but once you went through all those games with the human accuracies and IM and FM opponents, what could Kramnik have possibly been thinking? Didn't he even bother to look at the games and opponents before making the claims?!? Very careless.
Nice vids, nice to see some evidence refuting those ridiculous claims by Kramnik.
Thanks
With so few facts, there are endless plausible story lines. Choose your flavor.
"...I'm enjoying this drama here..." LOL! BLOODY drama, it is.
Sad what some people are making chess out to be. He must have missed Hikaru performance last tilted Tuesday :/ also he live streams a lot of his games so I’m confused 😂
Come on, we all know Hikaru have stockfish on the ceiling 🙄
Bobby went crazy, they say. Mark of a genius. This, however, is 1/1 nuts.
Rubinstein got sick of chess too.
hikaru wont chess
When in the world of "accusation" in any sphere, my first reaction to an accusation is to think that it is the accuser that is the one doing the action. We had this guy near where i live accusing lots of men of being child abusers, then the truth came iut and we all knew why he was fixated on that subject.
Kramnik did not mention Hikaru or cheating - maybe his message is whoa! really well done!
Cant go to the toilets on Blitz, Kramnik.
this has to cast doubt on Kramnik's accusations against Hans
meanwhile hikaru could beat him while jaming to jazz
Do we know for sure that it's intended as accusation or just information shared of new streak as a celebration ? 🤔
Kramnik is a frustrated old man.
Just because unmitigated nonsense comes from a once great GM doesn't make it anything but unmitigated nonsense..I'm surprised at Nepo buying in,too
I might add when Hans beat Magnus he was unable to explain the moves he had just made;this accusation is rubbish
I keep noticing how paranoid chess players are, often levelling accusations based on the flimsiest of evidence. I don't think they're necessarily very bright outside of their narrow specialty.
Pure statistics: The chance to win 1 game against an opponent with 400 ELO points less than you is 90.9%
The chance to win more than 35 of 46 games is 99.77%.
The chance to win exactly x of 46 games is the highest for x=42 with 20.35%.
The chance to win exactly 46 games is 1.24%. But the chance of winning exactly 37 games is almost the same with 1.38% and in this case noone would accuse anyone...
Hikaru and most GMs have too much respect for the game to ever cheat. Hikaru would rather quit chess outright than cheat from what I have seen of him. His play is impressive, though.
Huge blunder from Kramnik oof
He did not play different players, but often, the same players multiple games during this streak.
Kramnik was a student at the Humanities Institute of Novgorod State University, but was expelled due to systematic non-attendance and academic debt. Math and statistics are certainly not for Kramnik; they are are much hsrder comparing to moving pieces along a 64-square board.
old man is losing it
Absolute nonsense. There are so many metrics to consider when identifying a cheater. Kramnik cites ONE statistic and runs with it. Good thing he's a chess player and not a statistician because he would be unemployed.
🤣🤣🤣 MAgnus started it!
Im rated negative 200. But I have opinions, same as you.
Hikaru like many chess masters has internalized chess board, all pieces, many openings and top variations.
From casually watching Hikaru’s videos competing online, it seems Hikaru is able to make great chess moves in fractions of a second.
Not sure, but in some speed matches, he might pre-move to save time when he has seconds on his clock.
Some people have incredible skills in their professions, and Hikaru is one of them.
I don’t think Hikaru is cheating in his speed chess matches.
Possibly top masters, practice against chess engines in their spare time, to increase their skills and develop their own engine-like style.
And what is most fun for me, is to see when Hikaru or Magnus are playing in a tournament, and their moves are being evaluated by a chess engine-showing their choice of moves to be poor choices. Then they defeat their opponent-showing they know some things that chess engines don’t know, in limited time format.
Hikaru is not cheating in speed chess matches! Chess masters like Magnus and Hikaru have not only learned many openings and variations-twenty moves deep, they also have internalized mid game strategy as well as end game strategies.
When I take ten minutes to do a blunder, chess greats can play multiple matches in blink of an eye!
"I'm enjoying this drama." LOL. Now that's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! 😅
hikaru can do it in person as well as over the computer
Unfortunately, Kramnik does not really understand the numbers and statistics that he’s seeing. So he’s drawing incorrect conclusions.
Hikaru is going insane guns over the board as well as online. Zero chance he is cheating.
Yes the subset of games and opponents is of great importance. Hard to believe Hikaru would cheat.
He is smart enough to cheat if he wanted to, but also smart enough not to!
What does he have to gain with all that he has going? Doesn’t make sense.
Why is it that all of a sudden all non physical “e-sports” type games have all been hit with mass cheating scandals and mass paranoia of suspected cheaters. Even on a non competitive level, you can’t even play most multiplayer video games without running into a cheater or someone calling out a cheater. It’s just sad and I’m curious why cheating in online games is blowing up not just in chess but in all online multiplayer format games. I have no comments about the Hikaru kramnik drama
Live by the sword, die by the sword...Hikari Nakamura seemed to have no problems going along with all the accusations vs Hans Niemann, and not giving him any benefit of the doubt...
Crying wolf too often isn’t going to further his cause and didn’t Kramnik himself once get accused of using a mobile phone in the lavatory? So he must know how that feels.
Kramnik has lost his marbles.
They cannot stand Hikaru's success
Old Man Kramnik is just bitter he's lost his mojo.
Hikaru would never need to cheat to beat Kramdick. That's just ridiculous.
That said, I bet he feels what Hans was feeling when he got accused by Carlsen. Hikaru jumped in on that and stomped all over Hans so what goes around, comes around.
That's my two cents worth.
Nepo is a wally. There's another two cents worth. 😅
Hans is an admitted serial cheater john
How is admitting to cheating twice in his life serial when he was 12 and 16 years old?
@@user-xx8cy3gu5p you're talking about how he keeps cheating on you with your wife?
Good video. Good example.
Kramnik is getting the Fischer bug and going full dum dum.
Fischer was correct in accusing the Russians of collusion.
Kramnik is listening way too much of "Black Sabbath", their second album 'Paranoid' has stuck in his head. 🙂
Did anyone bother analyzing the 46 games to see how well the opponents played in those games?
I dunno about analysing but Hikaru posted them all to his channel yesterday as a nearly 4 hour video in case you want to watch
The only thing I find strange about the game at 4:08 is that Hikaru ISN'T playing perfectly, and that can just be handwaved with his intuition being off.
Kramnik and his super-ego became a joke...
where is you chess statisticians?
Re. 'going after Hikaru' ...going after anyone with mere silly statistics is just bonkers. Same goes for Magnus et all regarding the over the board games of Niemann.
I think this says more about kramnik then hikaru
It's crazy !!
Not a Hikaru fan but.... Kramnik is the same guy who went to washroom 36 time during his game vs Topalov. The post-game analysis revealed his moves where top choice of Fritz. In those days Fritz was the only reputable chest program and there was no name of the SF or Komodo etc
Kramnik himself denied any wrongdoing and said that he had simply been suffering from a mild stomach bug. He also pointed out that he had always been known to go to the bathroom frequently during matches.
In the end, there was no way to prove or disprove the allegations against Kramnik. The match was eventually finished, and Kramnik won the world championship title.
Kramnik has completely lost his mind!! Theres certain people who just dont accuse of cheating ever and Naka is one of them....
Just watch Kramniks whole interview, that he gave to Levitov. It's one and a half hour of him explaining his position on the matter. He ends up saying that players who do not want to cheat are basically forced to cheat (even the strongest), because they are loosing places to some wierd players, who start to play 150% better against anyone, the moment they come close to prize money. Then he's saying that it is really a problem with a system, but nobody wants to admit it, because there's too much money involved and everything could go up in flames. And that he really feels bad for online chess, because it can potentially even destroy online chess events with money prizes. Also, he uses a smart and interesting method of gathering the information, which he explains ... obviously it's not a couple of games analysis😖
P.S.: he wanted somebody to do english subtitles on that video, so if they are not there already, they probably will be at some point in the future.
I think he is overstating the problem. At the HIGHEST levels, cheating will absolutely destroy one's career. Those guys would never risk a few thousand $$ prize to have their careers just destroyed.
@@KNNY61 I think his concerns are legit. Maybe even too legit, if you know what I mean. But in all seriousness, it is obviously a complicated matter, with a lot of different nuances. For example I never thought about players that signed contracts by which they are obliged to play certain tournaments and their performance starts to drop drastically with no apparent reason. There's no point to pay them big money, if CM's blowing them off the board. So, that is another way to destroy your own career, maybe even the worst one, because, as it turns out, nobody will even know that you've cheated, if you'll just quietly agree to all conditions presented to you by the platform. The cool part, is that you don't even have to return the money. Just wait a couple of months, receive a new account, and you're back in business. In the end, it's all about getting that premium memberships from us and so on ... But they use that money for a good cause, doing good things for chess, so I guess it's ok? ... or is it? ... Who knows, but I can't help but feel sorry for the most players.
Come on Kramnik, now you’re discrediting yourself
Kramnick is gonna be moving to Iceland soon
all those games were vs FM / IM's. It doesn't surprise me that Hikaru won that many in a row. He is rated almost 400 points higher. Hikaru is probably the best speed chess player in the world. As much as I appreciate Kramniks games, he is wrong with this accusation.