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Immigration - the great non-debate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 เม.ย. 2016
- The great immigration non-debate - how to lose friends and never influence people. I challenge the standard political model.
Support me on Patreon: / lindybeige
More ranty videos here: • Rants
This one is long, and could have been a lot longer. I'm glad I managed to keep it as short as this! The device of flapping my hands as if I were wearing glove puppets was possibly not the best rhetorical ploy. Had I decided in advance that this was the way to do it, I may have taken the trouble at least to put some googly eyes on a pair of socks. Had I colour-coded those socks, though, it would have confused Americans. In the rest of the world, the left wing is symbolised by the colour red, and the right by blue, but in the USA this is reversed - another symptom of the arbitrary nature of the unnecessary divide.
Lindybeige: a channel of archaeology, ancient and medieval warfare, rants, swing dance, travelogues, evolution, and whatever else occurs to me to make.
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As the late great George Carlin once said, "Have you ever noticed that anyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"
That's why we have driving laws. Not everything on life is subjective. Through analysis and open minds, and knowledge, we can find what is best rather than what we want.
@@ninjahombrepalito1721 Your comment doesn't make nearly as much sense as you think it does. Maybe "analysis and open mindedness" or w/e could come up with the best speed for everyone to use in each specific throughfare when compared to other hypothetical mandatory speeds, but any such standardization would mean that any specific characteristics, such as driving skills and preference, state of the car (end of life tires perhaps) etc would be completely ignored for every single case and would make everyone unsatisfied.
@@lucasrfma
The level of driving skill required to be allowed to drive is another parameter that can be changed according to public compromise, just as to what extent safety is prioritized over getting somewhere fast (or the other way around).
@@xCorvus7x the thing is, Carlin's quote is about how quick we are to judge others according to our own parameters and not really think about how they have their own circumstances.
It's not about delegating our decisions to smarter people who know everything.
Even in regulated roads the original thought applies: no one is stupid enough to establish a mandatory speed, usually limits are established and people can drive at different speeds within those limits. Even so you can get pissed off at people using their rights to drive at different speeds than you. Maybe the slow dude isn't an idiot, but an old guy with slow reactions. And maybe the fast dude isnt crazy, he could actually be good enough that even at higher speeds he has a lower chance than you to cause an accident, or maybe he is in a hurry to help someone or w/e
@@lucasrfma
I thought Ninja Hombrepalito was simply advocating for using rational analysis of the possibilities to establish such limits, within which everyone can move.
came for the politics stayed for the masterful hand puppetry
I think you could say that about real life politics too, actually
...and the envelope-licking.
Can you add more hand puppets to your other videos?
Right!? Who knew we was going to get a puppet show!
Exactly! More hand puppet videos!
I have to say, that for someone who looks like he just woke up, threw a ratty sweater on over his pajamas, and presents his ideas like he's herding cats, I find his videos very thoughtful and entertaining. Crack on Lindy.👍
Lindy on crack 👍
There is strong correlation between high intelligence and lack of grooming (not hygiene, but care of personal appearance.) Cat herders are often intelligent people who may surprise you, while the sharp man in the business suit can seem intelligent in a scripted conversation, while seeming a bit vacuous and not entirely present when engaged directly.
As one of those cat herders, here's a bit of WHY some groups of intelligent people just don't care what they look like:
"Does this make me better or worse at my job? No? Okay then, so if I'm just trying to LOOK better at it, then really this is just more energy I could spend working... Instead of looking like I'm working. In the end, it just means I spend more of my energy on achieving actual results if I skip this step. Back to work then, I'll comb my hair for Christmas, boss."
Is that why he forgot the socks.
I can tell Lloyd doesn’t like the 2-party dominated system.
The two idiot system works quite well, actually.
@@InternetMameluq the two idiot system. Im ripping that one off! Good one.
@bobbyearl60 I ripped it off too, no worries.
It's from Spitting Image
I can't find the clip it might have been taken down, but the scene is HILARIOUS.
It's not real democracy. It requires at least 3 parties.
@@zulubeatz1 well even if we had more than two parties in America we'd still have the moneyed interests corrupting most of them
You're surprisingly good at debating yourself
Marry Christmas highly doubt that if you think that someone thinking logically about a serious topic without someone having to tell him he is wrong is bad or means he isnt good at debating, your jus wrong buddy
Suspect it was meant as a joke. God forbid.
th-cam.com/video/Fp-VlDxRErk/w-d-xo.html
Why are you even surprised thou?
You should see me. I have never lost!
Excuse me, this is the Internet. If you’re not gonna hate anyone, please step away from the microphone, sir.
Lol best comment so far
He hates himself but loves himself at the same time
I guess we could nickname him Gollum, then.
Can't I just hate everyone and call it even?
No Guilt you might want to consider changing your profile picture.
Ok but why didn't you put googly eyes on your hands? Unsubbed.
A Mufasa I would like this but I refuse to ruin the perfect 100 likes you have
@@Lordminecraft2 we could try for the next landmark 666 ;)
Wereowl9 well it’s 101 now the numbers been ruined time for 102
Wereowl9 the next landmark is 420 not 666
OK. Now is it 666?
I FOUND THIS TO BE QUITE REASONABLE, YOU THOUGHTFUL PERSON, YOU!!!!!!!!!
Underated comment
In America everyone is welcomed. Just come here legally.
@@generalpatton7876 Or don’t get caught
@@generalpatton7876 Let's be real here, people aren't welcoming.
@@sheevinopalpatino4782 that’s true
Both of your hands should run for office... Against each other.
In America, the left wing and the right wing are still part of the same bird.
@@Possumn1138 In America even the Buffalo have wings...
@@gedizaksit And They average roughly $7 a pound if you calculate it out, a cooked rotisserie chicken is $4 to $5 here While an uncooked one is more.
@@Possumn1138 you just made me realize that
Thanks
that would be far too french.
"Vote for me! Sleep with me!"
Woah there buddy thats quite a jump
Haha, he just leaned into it :')
H.L. Mencken said “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
quite a jump from which statement?
Henry1324 from voting to sex, but see my H.L. Mencken quote above.
Unique Plumbus heard a funny Russian joke the other day: “don’t mix prostitution with politics because they are already the same thing”
Simple answer: idk
Complex answer: I Do not Know
Complexer answer: I know'nt
I ain't know nothin'
Me, an intellectual: I’m experiencing inability to grasp
Socratic answer: All i know is that I know nothing
An un-questioned answer: Nah bro its green
I just watched 17 minutes of a Man talking about a very controversial topic just to be told to shut up at the end of it
and I don't feel bad about it.
Spoilers!
@@0rdnajela664 Whoever you are talking to, that guy deleted all his comments and only yours is remaining XD
@TrueWest The point of the video wasn't giving his opinion of immigration as much at it was giving his thoughts about how the two camps of people in general view immigration, and how they are both, in a way wrong.
I am immigrant, living in England right now. This year Im going to go back to my country. I must say English people are one of the most (if not most) tolerant, non-xenophobic people on this planet. Too tolernat in my opinion. You let too many immigrants guys. Way to many. I was living in places here that you could walk in the street and couldn't tell this is England. I can tell you only this, love your culture, your people and tradition and fight for it. Dont let some people to tell you, you are xenophobes, racists or any other of this bullshit names thay are calling you, just because you want Britain to stay British. Just my opinion. Have a nice day.
Amen
+Kretek An immigrant in the fewer-immigrants camp?
WHAT SORCERY IS THIS?
+Kretek I must disagree, no nation in europe is letting in enough refugees. Europe still looks like europe, there is no place that doesn t look like it should (in my oppinion). But I m still interested in your storry, where are you from and why did you immigrate?
+Leo Feypel Europe shouldn't look like Europe? Europe needs to be less European? What should Europe look like in your opinion? More like Somalia? More like Saudi Arabia? Please enlighten me
+Leo Feypel from my perspective it's amazing Europe hasn't taken more measures to halt the flow of refugees. Europe has absorbed a lot of refugees and I applaud Europe for acting so humanely. even government's that have begun taking measures to stop refugees from coming but should be commended for having absorbed so many refugees already. but absorbing refugees isn't going fix the problems that are causing them to flee. it's treating a symptom, not the disease. if there were some genocidal mad men running around in central or south america fighting a civil war that was uprooting people who were flooding the national borders in a large enough numbers to actually cause an inconvenience for the state, I can't imagine the US not stepping in militarily and resolving the issue. I realize the US is unusually willing to take drastic action against possible threats and inconveniences and the consequences have been unfortunate at times but I mean really. this Syrian war had been going on for what, 5 years? what would it take for the nation's of europe to send a peace keeping mission to resolve the issue? will it wait til the wars 10th year and for the entire population of syria to move into europe to spur action? a peace keeping mission to Syria would be costly but if we compare it to the US invasion of iraq, Europe wouldn't have to knock out a very powerful state, or worry about the legitimacy of their actions being questioned, or even worry about united opposition on the ground. It wouldn't be easy but it wouldnt be as bad as some of the US's interventions and isn't it in the best interest of both europe and the syrians? as it stands right now it's hard to even get countries seriously committed to an air campaign against daish.
BIG SHOUTY COMMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU'RE SUCH A XENOPHOBE!!!!1!1!!!
bleachfan292 REALLY IT'S THE CURRENT YEAR AND YOU JUST SAID AN OPINION THAT DIFFRES FROM MINE? PEOPLE LIKE YOU NEED TO LET ME LIVE IN MY CLOSED MINDED BUBBLE.
+Angus Rhodes
RASICM
Angus Rhodes
TRIGGERD
I just wanna join in and be cool...
Four years on this looks almost quaint and innocent.
Indeed
John K just because this is the top comment and I am strongly pro open borders and would like to present a few reasonable points as to why. So, first, it turns out even low skilled immigrants create more than 1 job per immigrant.
However, the downside of enormous immigration flows is that low skilled immigrants can cause shocks when they become citizens in large numbers, leading to a temporary displacement of native low skill workers. This almost always results in native workers moving to jobs with higher wages, BUT there is a critical lag time where those people will be out of work.
This is why a strong welfare state is needed. Unemployment benefits must be there so that the economy can be grown and we can have increased prosperity, happiness, and longevity.
Now, in a dream world, the only check you'd need to migrate anywhere would be: "are you a criminal? No? Great." One of the most impactful economic developments of the last century has been the free movement of capital across borders. Investment is incredibly easy, even in foreign lands there is often ready access to capital to start businesses and create new products. Similarly massive economic gains can be had by increasing labor mobility in the same way.
@@labadaba5088 I meant that in hyperpartisan 2020 the idea that both the left and the right might really just want roughly the same thing on a subject like immigration seems like a quaint and innocent relic of a bygone age.
Derek Welk the money comes from more people spending more money, creating jobs, and generally providing useful economic activity. The ability to freely move to where there's more demand and thus higher wages for workers would represent a lot of increased pay for those workers, which turns around into investment.
Derek Welk you're going to need more than platitudes to change anyone's mind on this. The fact is, the vast majority of people would rather work than be unemployed, even when the government literally gives them money every month for doing nothing. Check out the various "universal basic income" studies for more on this.
THAT WAS A BALANCED AND WELL REASONED (NON) ARGUMENT. IT WAS LOGICAL AND SOUND OF PRINCIPAL.
HOW DARE YOU!
Principles?
WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!!!
"it's almost as though it's a quite complicated issue"
cherry on top
Thomas Charky Then he asks the audience: "come up with a number".
Well, on one hand, Lindi knows that it is not a simple issue, on the other hand, it's as if he is oversimplifying the issue.
I think his main point is his last statement: "Shut up".
I'd love that as a ringtone!
Not that complicated. Depends what the 1% decide.
I think the opposition to mass immigration is more culturally based than economic
The current mass immigration into Europe wouldn't be so bad if a) countries like Germany didn't have so much welfare b) most of the immigrants would be actually employable people.
As of now these immigrants are just going to be a massive drain on the economy of European nations for 1-2 generations.
+Fankas2000 It's honestly odd, as a well educated American I find it almost impossible to get a visa to work in the EU, and yet I turn on the TV and see hundreds of thousands of migrants being allowed to stay in Europe.
You'd think European countries would clamor to attract better educated workers and deport random migrants without mercy.
DEVGRU-P The thing is It's mostly just Germany that wants this shit. Small countries like mine have no option of saying no, it's really scary because the EU looks more and more like USSR every day.
+Fankas2000 not even Germany wants it, Merkel screwed up greatly with this one
At least she got her nobel peace price, right? What was that you said? She DIDN'T get it?
Now isn't that a shame. I guess she didn't get ANYTHING positive out of this.
"Everything they say, everything they do and everything they believe. But apart from that they love the working class" Sounds like the Labour party in Australia nowadays.
And the democrats in America. They're all basically the same people doing the same things in different countries
its always been a fact of the uk labour movement.
Why does he have a picture of Jeor Mormont hanging on the wall?
He explains this in a video he made titled "Apologising to James Cosmo", check it out.
Jeor Mormont is pretty anti-immigration😂😂😂😂, maybe it's Lindybeige's way of tell us he is too..🤔🤔
sochibi guite haha yeah he guards the wall to prevent wildings from crossing over
@@sochibiguite3257 we're gonna build a wall, and the wildlings will pay for it!
@@JamyOats pay with fucking daggers and old horns and shit
An 18 minute long theoretical debate with yourself on both a political situation and the nature of politics itself (including the psychological aspects) in which you reveal no bias or flaw in logic... all done in one single take. If I were watching this in person I'd give a standing ovation. Bravo
Well, theoretically, but when you turn to what happens in real life, and the things people say in real life (at least during these last few years), then that neutrality kinda dissolves. It is unrealistic these days. There's the flaw in logic. The other flaw in logic is suggesting there should be a number of immigrants. That's really not the problem with immigration. It's really not about how many people you let into a country, it's about what kind of people you let into a country. That's why there are processes to legally introduce immigrants into countries.
@@ninjahombrepalito1721 You are absolutely right. I was so absorbed by the speaker's charisma that I forgot about that very major point, the kind of people one lets into the country.
@Genos Eklektos no, it's all about who are law-abiding citizens and who are not law-abiding citizens.
@Genos Eklektos Careful with that edge, kid.
@@ninjahombrepalito1721 with choosing a kind of person you let enter, you naturally decrease the number of wanted immigrants, for not everyone can be a scientist, a musician etc... and not everyone who is a scientist, a musician etc... would want to move to a different country.
BIG SHOUTY COMMENT!!!! EXCLAMATION MARKS YEAH!!!!
+Mental Carnage BAYPLOSIOOOOONS!1!ONE!!!
LOOOUD NOISES!
+GTSReviewer LOL IN CAPITAL LETTERS
+Patrick Ellis
YOU FORGOT YOUR TOXIC VITRIOL MY DEAR FRIEND!!!
+Kris Bluefield AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
“No-one is actually saying they should let all immigrants in!”
Fast forward to the 2019 Labour Party conference...
Oh hello Shigar! Another AA viewer 👋
Shirgar letting in all the immigrants would be fine if the welfare state was strong. The native workers get displaced to higher wage jobs in the vast majority of cases, and immigrants create more than 1 job per immigrant, even for completely unskilled laborers. Here in the US they create like 1.3 jobs on average.
Labor is dumb though, are they still doubling down on that Corbynite bullshit after getting trounced again?
I watched this 3 years ago and enjoyed it so much I'm back for more. I really enjoy your perspective.
Subscribed for military history. Stayed for glorious nonpartisan self-debates.
I have no idea why people can't deal with it, it's a topic that's current, and needs to be addressed.
+AustrianEmpire Ball I'm not going to judge your culture
neverfearchrisishere Neither am I.
+AustrianEmpire Ball Sounds reasonable
The problem is there is no optimum number, you cant just judge people if they are contributing economically or not, there is also social and cultural effects which are almost impossible to be added to a calculation for coming up with an optimal number. Because that number always changes with how you feel about the topic. Therefore trying to push the debate to coming up with an optimal number is just going nowhere and its also a hot air waiting to be exploited by politicians to get more votes.
@DispelTheMyth source: trust me bro
100 is the optimal number
My only concern is that everybody only seems to be talking about what is best for their country. Doesn't anyone feel like we, ignoring any positive or negative outcome, owe it to them. After all many of the immigrants come from country's, we fucked up.
@Richard I The Lionheart You are familiar with imperialism. Where Europeans conquered the world and tried to get absolutely everything out of these countries, not giving a shit about the consequences. Even Generations later we still benefit of these relations. We recked the African economy with our agricultural economics, we still finance basicly slavery, because we want t-shirts for 1 dollar. Our wealth is based on the poverty of Afrika, while sending them signals of enorme wealth, giving them a wrong picture of reality (advertisement, etc.). We need to start seeing Afrika as a equal partner and stop stealing resources from them. We need to realise, they can hardly do anything against this, except fleeing to Europe. After all are their corrupt governments supported by company's from Europe
@CCTV 1984 only old people use Facebook. But yeah I might have an imbalanzed few on the world, I am just a collection of all my expiriences and I grew up in a household with fews similar to my own. However if you have arguments against what I said, I would love to hear them and maybe rethink some stuff.
This is the most subtly comprehensive analysis of the political structure I have yet to enjoy. Well played, Sir 👏👏👏👏
Sock puppets would have added a touch of silly during the mock left hand v right hand debate.
+Juan Enfermo Bastardo Possibly. Googly eyes are great for comedy. I did think, though, that I was doing reasonably well and that I should carry on with the take, rather than stop and get some socks. Possibly too there is something deliciously stupid about sock puppets with socks.
Yes, donning sock puppets, with or without socks, would have broken the flow of the video, even though googly eyes are great fun.
+Lindybeige LLOYDDDDD, YOUR SOCK PUPPETS DON'T HAVE THE OPTIMUM NUMBER OF SOCKS!!!!1!!! unsubscribed, sir. :P
+Juan Enfermo Bastardo Or framing the controversy in history. Byzantine refugees to Spain would be a good one. And then handpuppets. With maces.
+Juan Enfermo Bastardo Chain mail sock puppets!
As an Immigrant to GB, I do not support todays immigration policy. It allows too much. Since I arrived, I was not unemployed, not for a single day. I work (sometimes over 70 hours a week), I pay taxes, NI, I know the language to some extent, I abide by the law, I respect local culture... And I want to work and live in here. I would have no problem obtaining permit to do so, if there was a restriction against those, who come just for social benefits, never work, commit crime, or openly claim that the country must change to the image of their own (which they fled in large numbers). See, there is a difference between Ukrainian mason, or a waiter from Spain and a family from Afghanistan, which considers woman, who does not cover her face, a whore and either property of her husband, or a father.
+Petr Maly "I know the language to *some extent*."
Going by your grammar, it looks like you know the language really well. Why so harsh on yourself?
djaceman123 Well, my point exactly. Sorry, it is my third language... Fourth if I count one similar to my native tongue.
Petr Maly You're doing fine. Much better than a lot of native speakers, to be honest.
djaceman123 That is the same in every language. At least there is automatic spellcheck on youtube. You do not want to know how my first version of the word "third" looked like.
***** Nope. Czech Republic
For me (an American) it's never been about a number, it's been about whether any given individual is likely to have a positive influence on our society. Do they have a criminal history? Have they expressed agreement with extreme views advocating violence towards Americans or any subset thereof? Do they have a history of joblessness, alcoholism, or otherwise being a drain on society where they are coming from? Do they possess particular training or skills that are in demand or difficult to acquire? If setting a standard that each individual applicant must meet means 100 million immigrants each year or less than a thousand I don't care IF we can say we looked them up and are convinced they will do significantly more good than harm to our society.
I'm going to start my policy suggestions with: stop fighting foreign wars which displace vast numbers of people for oil and gas.
But you need to recourced their extraction is necesery.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 strange idea: trade for it
@@cranknlesdesires And if they refuse?
You overthrow their government and install one that will allow your companies to extract and export their recources.
@Guy Panzerboss It not only could work it does work. Its what you call neocolonialism.
If the puppet government run the country in to the ground that is good for you since they will never be able to stand up to you then.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 Do you consider the current state of Afghanistan or Iraq to be examples of a functional neocolonial system working as intended for the betterment of humanity? To say nothing of ISIS or Al-Qaeda.
the optlimal number is 42
Pixelcrafte 1 i scrolled through the comment section just to find that one comment, thank you
“As in total? Per annum, per month, week, day? What do you mean?”
“42”
Didn't you know that "42" is the answer to life the universe and everything?!?
@@noneofyourbusiness3553 no, 42 is the answer to the most important question, but you do not know what is the question
Actually, the question is; "6x8?" per the trilogy in five parts
Is a sock-puppet without a sock a puppet-skeleton?
No only nude.
I want to see Lindybeige do more sock-puppetry. Hoplite Sock puppets... Medieval sock puppets... the whole thing.
meat puppet
Or just a sock with an awful lot of holes?
@@temseti0 I think you might be on to something. This needs to happen.
That puppetry was exceptional.
I happen to be in a country, South Africa to which I emigrated from England in 1975.
To be allowed to stay, first as a "Permanent Resident" later as a dual-nationality citizen when I opted for naturalisation, I had to prove my worth to the country and my proven ability to contribute to the economy, by showing evidence of work qualifications that the country needed, but did not have locally.
As a result the state was happy to pay for my travel to SA and accommodation for 90 days in a hotel while I got settled.
That is the only way it should work in any country - simple. End of debate.
What about war victims, political refugees? Do you really think these people leave their homes because they want to?
I'm not saying you are wrong and I'd much rather have a world where these people didn't exist. But they do. So what do we do with them? Let them all sit in Calais or Turkey or wherever? Or try to help?
As said in the video this is a ridiculously complex issue. To which there is no one answer.
Yes there are exceptions and those are already well-defined.
However there are no true refugees sitting in Calais as per legal definition and in any event those people have already passed through other "safe-haven" countries before reaching Calais and indeed Britain!
ALL of these actions by those faux refugees are illegal and not to be tolerated - unless of course you do not believe in any sort of border control.
@@stewartw.9151 They are only illegal because we say so.
Also it doesn't matter what I believe. I didn't even say anything about you being wrong. It's just that you were and are only looking at a part of the picture.
@@Tibovl Those war refugees could go to Israel, a rich country just very near their homes. And strongly financed by Europe and America. Why don't they go there?
@@papibou516 Fleeing from war into a country that's at war... Yeah seems like something any reasonable person wouldn't do. Besides, most war refugees are muslims. Israelis don't generally like muslims.
I just love how he managed not to offend anyone, while still talking about important things. Brilliant.
check again. people are outraged. a moderate position only angers everyone who is radical in their beliefs.
I love politics. when its not seriously worrying, its hilarious.
+jamham69 *a moderate position only angers everyone who is radical in their beliefs.*
I'm literally a marxist/communist internationalist (as in no nations or borders) and I actually agree with most of the opinions. I actually think that Labour and Conservatives (or in my case, the democrats and republicans) are basically the same (or, more specifically that one side is conservative/right wing and the other is much more conservative and right wing)
This is what "representative" "democracies" do, government positions tend to be held by well off, generally white, male land owners (as these are able to afford the best marketing teams and tend to be the subject of the most attention. If someone who is poor and working class tries to run it would take a significant amount of time, money, and effort just to acquire a following) and tend to represent the narrow spectrum of ideas those are disgussed within that demographic.
Sure, they may occasionally pay lip service to the working class and sometimes they might throw money at them when the system starts failing or when workers get too radical, but this doesn't actually fix the problems that cause these crises in the first place, such as institutions that are allowed to pursuit of profit for it's own sake, or the fact that the creative potential of millions is wasted because their labour is not theirs to control, or the fact that vast amounts of political power held by the the hierarchical authoritarian nightmare that is the modern corporation.
(and yes a corporation does wield political power. If there are institutions that exert almost totalitarian levels of control over a workers actions for half of that workers waking day, and these institutions control most of the land and resources within a nationstate, as well as having the resources to bully nationstates, small and large, into changing their laws and bending over backwards to accommodate those corporations, it doesn't matter if you call those institutions "economic", they still wield political power)
"a moderate position only angers everyone who is radical in their beliefs"
This is meaningless. People are outraged by opinions which ultimately affect their lives. People who express these opinions vote, and their various ideological beliefs end up being expressed through the enaction of their preferred policies for the politicians they vote for. That's one reason people respond the way they do. Sometimes a moderate opinion is that way because it is poorly informed or the person doesn't wish to offend.
For example, I find Commie Bastard's opinion outrageous because I think it's fundamentally wrong on just about everything. I find that ideology abhorrent and detrimental to civilized society and human progress. Why wouldn't I be outraged by that opinion? If he feels the same way about mine, why shouldn't he also be outraged? I'd venture to say that neither his nor my opinion are moderate. On the other hand, why does an opinion which is carefully crafted not to offend hold any sort of primacy over a so-called radical opinion?
I'm not sure he's saying *he* has a moderate position.
My boy Commie Bastard was spitting facts, not opinions, blowhard.
the people's front of judea
the judean people's front
splitters!
+Inannawhimsey PM me if you want to buy some wolfs-nipple chips.
Inannawhimsey you've split the party!
Inannawhimsey fuck you
Whatever happened to the Popular Front?
Remember 'Judea declares war on Germany'!
Also seeing as you’re a Brit I clicked on this video expecting to be dissapointed but I honestly couldn’t be more proud. You’re a great guy, keep up the good work.
17:15
I love how he tells his hand to speak to the camera LMAO
Wow! A well based, non-partisan video on a political topic. What are you trying to do?..Change the internet???
Then you read the comment section and you are teleported in 1935’s Germany.
It was much easier to avoid taking a position in 2016 (before the Brexit vote, even) than in 2018. I wonder what Lindybeige would say now? Of course, knowing that he would be arrested for making an anti-immigrant video would probably colour the conversation a bit
Refugees by definition intend to go home eventually, when whatever calamity afflicting their home is gone. The vast majority of the "refugees" today are migrants (immigrants)
@clariboia anal not the first time in history; they tried it in the Roman empire, but over centuries instead of decades. Does anyone remember how that worked out?
clariboia anal, his point stands even when not talking about economic.
It would be « what number of immigrants do you think UK should let in in order for demographic X to change in the direction you want it to change, and for the safety of the general public to get higher or not decrease, and how do you intend to achieve and maintain this number ? »
Oh, one other thing I wanted to say with regard to this is that quality of immigrants is important - not just quantity.
e.g. let's say you think 1000 is an appropriate number. Well, 1000 trained doctors, specialists or just hard-workers is likely to have a very different impact than 1000 pickpockets, murderers, rapists and scroungers.
+Virideon how do you recognise if trained doctor, specialist or hard worker isnt also murderer rapist and scrounger?
+PolesAreEverywhere Well, you can probably tell whether they're a scrounger by whether they quickly find work and pay for their own accommodation, or whether they expect housing and benefits to be handed to them. The downside, of course, is that you've already let them in at this point.
Telling whether they're a rapist or murderer (or even a terrorist) tends to be more difficult. Unless they already have a conviction for such in their own country, then you'll probably only be able to tell if they attempt to commit such a crime.
Only 2 minutes in, but I like this guys honesty. I'll subscribe just to support such honesty.
After fully watching the video, I can say I learned nothing about the subject, other than to apply common sense to the issue. I'm looking forward to watching the rest of the uploads now. :)
LLOYD I'M SHOUTING TO SAY THAT YOU'RE A FANTASTIC CONTENT CREATOR
Also yes, I watch your videos from years ago repeatedly
I'M ONLY FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE WHO AGREE WITH ME ON EVERYTHING!!!! ...im so lonely :(
just use facebook, you will find dozens of people who think like you and facebook will even make sure to show their stuff more often than people who think different
@Lord Fuzzle its called sarcasm
@Lord Fuzzle thats a weird way to say sarcasm
I know right, last "friend" disagreed with me on the best temperature, they said 12 celcius, what an idiot, it's 11 celcius
@Lord Fuzzle dafuk
There's no "optimum number of immigrants". Deciding to let someone join your team because you need to fill a quota is a stupid policy.
A good policy would let the top players join your team, so it makes your team better. With this policy it isn't about "how many", it's about "who".
+yoni0505 we should completely open the borders, to anyone who is well educated (either in sciences, technology, more practical stuff) have no (or very minor) criminal records, can read, write and speak English moderately and has to be willing to live by our laws (mostly for Muslims).
Completely agree with both of you
+yoni0505 +nicynodle2
This is going to sound a little hostile, but hear me out. If you care about the third world, you wouldn't fully endorse that.
Every single amazing legend that comes into the country is taken from another country - likely a developing country. One thing that holds back the third world is great people are using their greatness to come here to live and be educated, rather than focusing their greatness on their native countries.
The developing world needs those people more. Hell, there's more of an argument for why we should be sending people like that, not taking them. If you don't care about the plight of the third world (not judging you, really), then sure take all the best.
Not seen any amazing legends, just more fucking morans blocking the streets while breeding more fucken morans that go on twitter asking where to place the bomb..
Don't want muslims in my country, they have mental problems spreading laughing factory diatribe while they speak out the side of their face, blowing up the natives children inside burger king . They have zero power of reason also.
Plus letting mouth foaming flag burners into the country is not a practical idea.
Prolly best to actually rescue the non muslim arabs residing in muslim countries.
@Ew Dude, nice to know you aren't a bigot.@YZB25 I agree with you, on that third world countries need to stop exporting their smart people. The problem is those people feel like they can't succeed in the country they are from.
This has been rendered slightly outdated. Because of the massive party de-alignment that had happened since this video came out.
The tories are seen as the party of brexit and the party of anti-immigration and as a result, a lot of working class voters in the red wall who supported Labour have switched to Conservative.
I think we are seeing the tory party become the party of working class people who oppose immigration, similar to the republican party in the US. And the Labour Party fast becoming the party for BAME people and graduate professionals, similar to the Democrats. At least in England anyway.
To me its bonkers that this weird contradiction is only now starting to unravel
That's the Liberal party.
I am one of the poorest people in the UK, I hold some very conservative views and I believe we are full up, and yet I am a member of the labour party and Acorn, I am loyal to those that support the normal people, that aint the tories.
Corbyn did say that he saw "no theoretical limit" to the number of people we should allow into this country. And Ash Sarkar, reviewing the considerable decline in the number of white Britons living in London revealed by the last census, declared "We're winning, lads!"
"Dear, respected and intelligent viewer"
I think you have me confused with someone else.
+The Examined Life (of Gaming)
My granny calls me dear.
Fifteen per year. That is the optimal number. They will be admitted in a large public ceremony in which the assembled crowds will be able to see if there are more or fewer than fifteen.
+Percy Danvers lmao. this
+Percy Danvers lol
we'll call the ceremony
"Migrants Welcome"
And we can shower them with flowers and Job offers.
+Orestes Nicopoulos You mean become Swedish?
+Fat Dog Sweden yes
I wasn't subscribed, but that rant in the beginning about losing subs convinced me to finally hit that button. Love your content, thanks for sharing so much over the years!
Ah, a video from the good old days when "those people" actually had reasonable proposals, and didn't actually publicly make statements in favour of obviously-unworkable plans...
Europe needs me.
You're not meant to be a good candidate, but to wreck the hell out of the system so it can be rebuilt anew.
And i don't think europe need you as much as US does.
+God Emperor Trump Death to the false emperor!!!;-)
+God Emperor Trump Omfg lmfao
+Dr_Kachu san Well there is that whole rise of reactionary far right parties that's a bit frightening.
+Kharmazov Heathen!
People often make the mistake of equating higher education with common sense. I've discovered, within the world of politics, the more education a politician has is contrary to the amount of common sense they utilize whilst governing. It's a common malady that affects almost all politicians on both sides of the political aisle.
+sean m I had to cut an awful lots of corners in this video.
+sean m That is because usually science and logic conflict with "common sense". In fact "common sense" is neither common, nor sense.
+Lindybeige Now they want to cut the corner budget.... when will it stop...
+sean m because "intellectuals" who've been taught in some specific field, for example: law or politics. For some reason consider themselves specialists in all fields, especially in economy, immigration nowadays. That's why you get laws and actions that are completely detached from reality.
+jazzthieve Yes, somebody please do. Certainly I've been raised on the idea that it doesn't, since "Common sense" is often completely different to people of different backgrounds. To me, it's "Common sense" not to short out electrical circuits, but a tribesman from the amazon, indubitably superior at actually remaining alive in a rainforest, would probably do it repeatedly for the spark.
It is not about sheer numbers. It is about numbers AND demographics. Immigration from the middle east and Africa that is not exclusively related to high skilled work is not beneficial to any country in Scandinavia. 100 000 random people from Somalia would be devastating for our economy (and crime statistics), whilst 100 000 random people from Norway would not impact a lot.
Sincere regards, Sweden
Jonas Lecerof best pfp
@@ultrainstinctshaggyalmight6429 not sure how to add pictures in comments, but you can read the report mentioned in this article: www.svd.se/tre-miljoner-kronor-per-flykting
Or this Danish one made by the Danish government:
www.fm.dk/oekonomi-og-tal/oekonomisk-analyse/2017/indvandreres-nettobidrag-til-offentlige-finanser
Or the old report on the crime statistics by BRÅ in 96 (only found the archived version but I am sure it is still on their web page)
www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1/
Did you know that all convicted for assault rapes in Oslo in 2016 was non western immigrants?
Jonas Lecerof low skilled immigrants are also beneficial for the economy. this is not my opinion but an extremely well studied fact
@@odb1612 Then you should provide evidence for this well-studied fact. Low skilled immigrants are not beneficial for the economy given certain circumstances which are shown in the studies I linked to. This is not my opinion, this is also a fact.
Ps. The reports i linked in the reply to Ultra Instinct Shaggy Almighty above.
2016: No one is actually calling for open borders.
2019: _Hold my beer._
Mystic Mack all of the EU has open borders and it works perfectly well
@@odb1612 can I ask you where do you live? How can one possibly say that it works perfectly well?
@@ebin7906 the borders inside the eu, I should have made that clear, are open. the borders on the outside of the eu are not. there's plenty of immigration between eu countries, which is absolutely necessary for the economy. a majority of the immigrants in Germany, where I'm living, are from other member states of the eu. bodercontol is necessary at the external border, but would be harmful for the cultural and economical development inside of the eu
@@odb1612 Free movement within the EU is not the same as open borders. Open borders would be letting an indefinite amount of people in from outside the union without any questions asked.
I have nothing against free movement within the EU.
Mystic Mack thank you for editing your comment to a more respectful tone. as far as my semantic understanding goes, the borders within the EU are open, the borders on the outside are not. this is actually what i stated in my previous comment
Subscribed for medieval trivia. Stayed for non-partisan political self-debates. 👍
The thing is with immigration the UK does not need any more migrants. Yes some of us originated from migrants but that was thousands or hundreds of years ago when land was not taken and countries needed to be populated. After ww2 we had to take on migrants to do our jobs as we lost so many men, but now we have lots of men and women to do the jobs.
I think this is why big countries want to stay in the EU as they bring in migrants who will do jobs (most of them) and will work for very little money, this is how quite a few jobs are leaving the UK and quite a few British people are loosing their jobs so migrants can take their place and get payed less.
Thank you for reading my version of the story :)
+Crazy corner Are there any studies saying immigration in the long run, reduce economic prosperity?
Yes...
Like?
+Pan kurczak You've clearly never experienced this so let me explain. They don't give a shit. They will hire cheap low quality labor over good expensive labor. every time. And if they can't do it in 1 country. They'll just ship factories over to countries that will.
+Crazy corner This is remarkably ignorant. Large scale Norman, Saxon, Angle, Jute, Norse, Scoti, Roman, Celtic, etc. migration has defined us, and it has to some degree been a process of assimilation. History tells us that culture is not prescriptive, and that peoples don't battle it out to determine some victor with an ancient, coherent lineage and meaningful identification as a distinct people. In reality, people move, ideas change, all is fluid and the fundamental process is one of change and adaptation, political elites like to draw boundaries and recently claim nation states, but this is nothing but an illusion, an exercise in control. What does it really mean to be British? Would a Sussex farmer from 1200 really agree with any definition you could give for what defined being English, for example? Nationality is a construction.
I am from South Africa and I would love to leave if I could.
@Viz12345 I am a boer and that joke is rather offensive considering the British killed 2 thirds of our woman and children in concentration camps.
@@kasper7203 Definitely shouldn't come to Britain if you don't like offensive jokes. Speech regulations aside, most people will roast you
@@kitsuneoga alright thanks for the warning. On a side note.. There was no joke in the offensive comment made above. Satire does not include simply mentioning horrific historical events. If that is the level of humour the English now admire then Brexit makes sense.
@@kitsuneoga and when I stated I would like to leave South Africa, I didn't mean I was planning to illegally invade Britain or Europe..
@Primo Antonius I am trying to get away from racial tension.. Living in Trump's America is the last place I want to be
Lindy: It's one that i think you should really seriously consider...
*shut up*
nice
Lol, so everyone completely ignores the video and immediately scrolls down to make politically charged ignorant comments. Hilarious.
YAAAR!
+Torgo What VIDEO!!!!
+Torgo what can I say? We're only human!!!!
I watched 30 seconds and decided the video was shit, headed straight down here for some fun.
+Torgo You're new to the interwebs, aren't you ;-)
"It's much easier to fall to the left or right, than to fall down the middle of a tightrope."
Jo King Radical Centrism?
"It's much easier to sit on the fence pontificating than to fight for your beliefs."
If I was going to have to fight for my beliefs... I'd have to find some bullshit to believe in first. And nobody got time for that.
Being centrist doesn't mean you can't have an opinion or hold beliefs. In fact I have very strong beliefs when it comes to things like civil rights etc. Theres just far too much tribalism in politics which creates dogma.
this is supposed to be wise?
Its kinda scary how in America those strawmen he was doing were incredibly accurate...
*Starts asking for votes in mexico.*
Talk to real life people, you won't find most of the pundit views reflected across a significant portion of either party, this is reflected in polling data. The major parties actually make up a minority of voters, most voters are independents who see little representation in the primaries and when combined with the fact that only a small portion of congressional seats are competitive we see a distortion of temperament between voters and representatives. Beyond the affect of a two party system with gerymandering there is also an optic effect that is more difficult to see when far away.
When you only see American media but you arn't physically here it's easy to miss an important piece of information (and this goes for people inside the US who never spend time with people whose side they arn't on), most American media is a circus designed to get attention and has little substance outside of that purpose. Our media is 100% corporatized and as such attention is the name of the game, and as such extreme rhetoric is the only stuff people watch regardless of whether or not they agree with it.
@@Ravie1 Although I agree most see themselves as independents the fact of the matter is we all tend to vote Democrat or Republican in the end... I think more people say it than actually mean it.
Media has always been a business... Journalism still exists but people have become too stubborn to listen and instead label it all fake when ot doesn't agree with their feelings.
Just to clarify in case anyone comes upon that comment later, they're completely and totally wrong lol. A quick Google shows about 30% of voters are registered as independent, and poll after poll (and person after person) shows the large majority of Republicans (and a fair amount of Dems) believe almost every pundit talking point.
That said, gerrymandering, lack of good representation, and polarization is a huge problem and everything else they mentioned in that respect.
who else is scrolling through the comments looking for someone who got triggered?
Yup
Ahhhhhh I'm soooo triggered XD
A lot of /pol/ goers and some Tumblr users got triggered, /pol/tards got triggered about the fact that he thinks immigrants can do any good at all and not "destroy the pure European race with their curry and falafel" and tumblroids got triggered about him not thinking everyone who says anything negative about immigrants is a racist bigot.
@@djweebo well then 🙃🙃🙃
Best political video i have ever seen. Whole system explained so clearly. It was easier to make an opinion in old westerns when the bad guys always wore black and took two steps back when they were shot and the good guys wore anything including black but took two steps forward when they got shot. I love contradictive thinking. And you do it so well. Best entertainement i've found on TH-cam. Thank you.
HOW DARE YOU POST A WELL THOUGHT OUT COMMENTARY VIIEW ON SUCHA COMPLICATED ISSUE I SHALL WRITE A STRONGLY WORDED LETTER TO THE DAILY HYPERBOLIC HYPOCRITE TO COMPLAIN !!!!!!!!!!!! keep up the good work beige for Prime Minister
It's really not a "complicated issue". Europe doesn't need people that are dumber and from shithole countries moving into their continent.
@@chrisgriffin7357
If that was the answer, then Europe wouldn't even be a rich, modern 'continent.' Rome would have reverse-sieged the Barbarian Tribes, keeping them out of Rome Proper, but they instead integrated some and repelled some as well.
They did this in North America, letting some Native Tribes remain, as they provided an economic and military benefit, and ravaged others that posed a threat.
And in South Africa, same story. Kill everything that won't work for you, and let everyone else that can help live. Nice diamonds, too.
And in Europe, again, with Mongols. Pay up or burn down.
If you want more examples, just look at history. It's bloated with them.
But no, as history has shown time and time again, it is indeed a complicated issue. Not everyone from "Group X" is harmful, nor is everyone from "Group X" helpful. Lindybeige even stated this a few seconds before calling it a "complicated issue." ( At time 14:10 )
And while you could argue that idiots don't help, you could also argue that every barbarian was an idiot to the Romans. They didn't know how to make castles or form armies or conquer the world until the Romans taught them. Now look where those once-barbarians are.
It is only complicated if you have the intelligence of a snail.
@@apophisdaflorp May I argue, that its somewhat different to exploit conquered lands and use the people for cheap and dangerous labour, than to welcome random people into a welfare state where pure strength isn't as useful anymore...
@@Hunter_Bidens_Crackpipe_ so what's your answer to it?
Before watching this, I wanted to say that I would never throw a tantrum like you describe and dislike and unsubscribe just because your views don’t agree with mine. I’m a libertarian with right leaning views and hearing other people’s perspectives is such an important part of having intellectual conversations. I have friends who are far left, some who identify as independent and naturally, since I’m right leaning, a lot who lean right as well. It’s ridiculous that we live in an age where people think you have to agree with some one to like them and interact with them. So no matter where you are on this political spectrum, LindyBeige, I will respect your opinion and continue to watch.
For me, the optimal number of illegal immigrants is zero.
Restricting immigration to decent White people would be a good start.
so base the judgement on their skin?
If you believe that skin colour is the only factor in racial differences, you are ignorant.
+Giriraj Sharan Not very versed with science, are you.
+Jay Mazella i know skin color isn't the only difference but it wouldn't be fair to restrict immigration to white people. im white so Im not doing this out of self survival. you don't have to smugly insult me though i know it makes you feel smarter
Giriraj Sharan If you know that there is more to race than skin colour, why do you smugly come to me and imply that I am ‘stupid’ for allegedly basing my immigration policy ‘on their skin? No, I base it on the realisation of REAL racial differences, differences that WILL make or break our civilisation.
I guess the biggest difference would be in whom you let in, not how many people.
We should issue visas to everyone in the Congo cos they'll improve out nation! If you're against that then you're a fkn racist!
@@richardduplessis1090That's out of question because there is no war in congo.
@@OscarStigen I hope that's a satiric remark
@Jamie Ramsay At least you got it
Great idea! A stagnant gene pool has worked out just fine for you, Richard, and both of your partiular ancestors, right?
In Sweden the left wing position is honestly that there shouldn't be any upper limit on how many immigrants Sweden should accept and the right-wing position have been the same, up until recently, when the right-wingers decided we should have exactly 70% less than the limitless left-wing position. The fringe-right are the only ones who want severely restricted immigration and they were quite literally nazis at one point, now they're just called and treated like nazis.
So basically we have the highest immigration per capita in the Western world and we're totally screwed. Cheers.
not to worry the entire world is screwed with or without immigration thanks to our masters who run the banking system, politicians are nothing but puppets and should be called out as such
This was both amazingly handled, amazingly accurate, and hilarious!
Right and left wing terminology comes from the post French Revolution government being separated in two with the left and right side having senators that follow these ideals sitting at that side
Interesting history
Yes, but in the modern world the terms are nebulous.
What!? I thought they were all agreed on Socialism with no rights (Nazism.)
Kind of, the Estates General was abolished by the revolutionaries for obvious reasons: 10 000 clergymen had one vote and 400 000 nobles had one vote, meaning they could just band together against the 25 000 000 citizens of the Third Estate (bourgeoisie and common folk), which only had one vote as well. It was replaced by the National Legislative Assembly where the revolutionary Jacobins (mostly liberal or progressive Republicans), sat left of the king, while the monarchist Feuillant (mostly constitutional at this point) sat right of the king. In the middle you had the plain, which didn't really consist of any parties. Only politicians that would switch sides depending on the issue. This obviously changed after the king tried to flee France to seek Austrian and Prussian help. (Basically an attempt to invade his own country with foreign armies). He ended up under house arrest instead. The Radical elements of the Jacobins took power, creating the National Convention (first real government during the revolution) and beheaded the king along with anyone they saw as enemies of their cause. Ironically most of them (including their founder Robespierre) would end up guillotined themselves, when their reign of terror ended two years later in 1794.
That's why progressives are considered left-wing, while conservatives are considered right-wing, but the terms hold little meaning anymore.
No clue why this video suddenly appeared in my recommended btw
@Soy Allergies you are indeed correct, this is however the origin of the term
I met an immigrant once, and he turned me into a newt!
....I got better. ..
+Alexander Humphreys A newt?
UNSUSTAINABLE which is a very good word to assosciate with long term idiocy
God I love this channel
16:44 Mind = blown. "Shut up, do nothing!" Wow, if only anyone could have ever thought of that before, amazing. What insightful and valuable contribution.
Lloyd, for years I've watched your videos, and regardless of whether or not I agree with a particular video, I'm always impressed with how logical and well-reasoned each argument is. Well done, never stop.
Sadly the vast majority missed the point of this video
I'm just surprised (and relieved) that he got more likes then dislikes.
Which is why I said zero immigrants. Because that's an actual number and achievable. 😃
Reece Swaby not me
You got that right
The point is that he wants everyone who isn't intelligent and well versed in the subject to shut up and stop expressing an opinion.
Still I would say that message is just as divisive as the immigration issue.
Me in the middle of a perfectly peaceful family gathering: 0:00
*cough* I really, really like and appreciate this video. At the same time, in the name of acknowledging uncomfortable truths (and as a non-American) can I point out that there is in fact, in America, a posse of activists actively chanting, on camera, "No border! No wall! No USA at all!" So, um, actually, there are *some* people who want to let literally everyone in, and eliminate borders entirely, and we can't pretend that movement doesn't exist. It's actually growing, especially among the young (especially those on university campuses).
No reasonable person agrees with open borders. It is amazing that nonsense keeps getting repeated. Sent by an Immigration Attorney in Texas
You should have addressed that all immigrants are not equal. A huge number of people from the Third World will eventually turn Britain into a Third World country.
+The Golden One how?
+The Golden One based
+MooseALot People are all xenophobics. It is human natue. Only the monopoly of power by law and order keeps culturaly diverse countrys from decending in to tribalism and civil war. No state with high cultural diversity, low education, with lots of people with no tradition of enlightenment and democracy can be both peaceful and prosperous at the same time as being liberal and free.
Erik Kaareson ya, it is just sad that they are xenophobic, these people [for the most part] are great people
Yeah. A lot of great people has kiled each other in wars. And before that in skirmishes and blood feuds. And we are stil just humans. We must not forget that.
The optimum number of immigrants for Britain IS ZERO!
+MrMonkeybat I believe the question should be rephrased.
What is the optimum number of DEPORTATIONS in Britain?
At least the ones worshipping Allah, if they were a bunch of Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists I'd have zero problem.
Worked well for you in the past didn't it?
+hedgehog3180 i dont think he knows history enough
+Caarnji lol nice one.
I want an hour of Lindybeige doing hand puppets
Immigrants don't drive down wages. Bosses do. Solidarity within the working class is the only way forward.
Robin Linné Kausrud The history of the Bubonic Plague and Renaissance Europe says otherwise. Supply lowers demand. Supply always lowers demand. This is a law of economics.
@@Tempusverum No, it's the law of a capitalist system that does things because it is profitable, not because it needs doing.
Robin Linné Kausrud “Capitalist system” pffft. Show me another system that actually works
@@Tempusverum Don't move the goal post. Do you admit that the only thing that drives capitalism is profit for bosses and companies?
@@robinlinnekausrud5246 No to your 2nd comment.
For those who don’t want to watch the whole 17 minute video, he basically criticized both the Labour and Conservative party for (unnecessarily) demonizing the opposition. He also proposed the challenge of finding the optimal number of immigrants *you* would let into Britain (I believe he said).
It shouldn't be the number being argued on, letting uneducated people come in is the issue. For example, you can live in any country if you are rich. No one asks any questions, you could be a over religious hateful dickhead but you have money, so no one cares. Also policies that benefits some minorities are not doing any help. No one should be in our out without any checks, and thats about it.
Cymro 65 semantics but I changed it if that’s so important
Sandy Jones What you’re saying sounds extremely rhetorical. Having a liberal system of migration is literally just smart economic policy, not replacement. I would also like to see how these “hostile foreigners” affect crimes rates
THAT'S OFFENSIVE! I'M NOT RESPECTED, NOR INTELLIGENT!
the question is, which is a more pressing issue: xenophobia or unsustainability?
One can be sustainable and anti xenophobia
I got a nice variation on the experiment that Loyd describes, where the political parties have to determine an 'allowed' number of immigrants.
Make each party 'predict' how many immigrants will be allowed into the country in the next 4 years in 2 scenarios. One where they get full control over immigration and the other where the opposition gets their way.
That would make it pretty hard for either of them to come up with 'extreme' numbers for either prediction.
I'm not that interested in the number of immigrants but in the culture and the social values said immigrants have.
Arabic culture - especially Iraqi culture - is excellent, for example. It's not mutually inclusive with the dominant religion, Islam, but everyone seems to think it is. Odd world we live in. Good mindset to have, though.
1970's Iraq was a proper first world nation wasn't it? Then Islam sort of killed everything
+Isaac Brock Not the sharpest tool in the shed are you(Which explains your ignorance of Islam and hatred for it)... Iraq has been majority Muslim for over the past 1,300 years of it's history...
That includes the 1970s.
Personally i believe it's better to have a Muslim than a Jew in the country, but both are really bad.....
The immigration debate is a symptom of a much larger problem in modern semi-free semi-socialist societies. Immigration is just one of MANY "magic number" debates, like taxation when you ask a self proclaimed socialist millennial what the optimal tax rate is and they nearly always give a number that is in fact lower than the current tax rate, or like government services when you ask how much a government should spend to help someone, or how much is too much to spend to help someone, etc etc etc.
.
The cause and solution to all of these problems is the idea that it is ok to forcibly take from one to give to another. Until this practice is ended, you will ALWAYS have people fighting over the spoils.
.
.
You don't have an answer unless you come at it from first principles.
It's quite easy to limit numbers - you just put a cap on the number of visas you will give out in a year. I do agree that finding an optimum number is hard - particularly as it is going to change over time.
I think that's why you want to give an optimum percentage of the population as a number, instead of an absolute one.
If we latvieši where the immigrants to england you would not see acid attacks in London, or [cencured] gangs in Birmigham, ....
People are people, there will always be the fucked up one
@@shitmultiverse1404 Not if they are healed or purged.
"Noone is saying let everyone in."
Angela Merkel would like to have a word with you.
Shouldn't it be based on the unemployment rate?
+Metatron's Cube And demand for labour.
Or the fact that all humans have the right to live comfortably?
I thought comfortable was subjective.
Who says that humans have a right to live comfortably?
The one thing that sets us apart from Animals, empathy
Let’s do the experiment. Not necessarily government figures, but regular people, “left” and “right” aligned.
Why not?
Because regular people tend to have an unhealthy and hateful view of the other side these days. You dont want them in the same room. For politicians it's all propaganda, trying to beat the other side. But people for some reason over time started believing the propaganda, and now there are more extremists than ever.
Still want to watch it happen.
Most political debates work like this. Everyone who thinks carefully about these things tend to agree more than they expect to. I'm an American who tends to fall slightly towards the republican side of the spectrum but whenever I talk to my more left wing friends about politics, one of two things usually happens. The most common thing is that we discuss our opinions openly and honestly and find that either we agree, or that neither of our opinions are so egregious that the other would find them to be reprehensible or unjust. The other thing that happens is that someone starts thinking they know what the other person thinks and why, and they coerce them into defending the most radical version of their opinion that they could possibly defend, but which they don't really entirely agree with. Then, the person who got coerced gets angry and feels bad about themselves for even trying to defend such a radical version of their opinion as if they actually believed such a terrible thing, and the other person feels like they've just told off a horrible person and the horrible person just got mad at them for having the right opinion. It's honestly stupid.
You need a Sub Channel devoted to explaining Geopolitical issues with sock puppets...
Ps: If anyone in the comments does this link me. I just wana see it be a thing somewhere xD
Here you go: th-cam.com/channels/Pdk3JuQGxOCMlZLLt4drhw.html
I think the immigration is not a problem, problem is who are these immigrants. I'm from Poland and since the "iron curtain" was destroyed a lot of well educated, intelligent Polish people emigrated to so-called western countries. The "brain drain" process was very bad to Polish economy but worked well for USA, GB, Germany etc. places where those people were working more for less money than the citizens of these countries.
Right now problem is that a lot of half-literate people which are not wiling to work and assimilate, with foreign culture, traditions, way of life etc. pouring through the borders with no control whatsoever. Those illegal immigrants are the problem and not the immigration as a whole.
Strathclyde is not very multicultural now but back in the dark ages with a left over roman population [some of it african], british celts from England and Wales, scottish celts from Pictland and Irish celts [the scots from Ireland], germans [angles and saxons] and later on a load of fractious vikings who having burned dumbarton seemed to settle down. It was such a stable kingdom that it survived as a sub kingship right through to the norman take over after Macbeths fall. I look forward to having a multicultural society in the future we clearly need it. Infact Scotland is named after a group of immigrants [conquerors]. So is England for that matter. with rising sea levels most english will soon be immigrants anyway.
Lmao this was relevant until yesterday when Labour actually voted for global freedom of movement rights and open borders
Well it's hardly a new idea. That was the norm throughout the Pax Brittanica era.
@Thumos Aeterna In all honestly, just wait a few years, and the Tories will be calling for open borders while Labour calls for zero immigration. Tribal flippage is a good term for the left/right policy flipping that absolutely always happens in cycles. It wasn't that long ago that the "right" wanted more immigration to stimulate the economy while the "left" wanted closed borders to boost wages. "Left wing" and "right wing" distinctions are pushed onto us entirely by politicians who believe they need wedge issues to divide voters against each other to secure election victories.