Chris picks up a random issue of X-Men to look at how many dialog cliches pop up, based on Chris Claremont's recurring tropes. / comictropes / comictropesshow
Nimrod was the name of a Biblical character, a hunter. I believe Bugs Bunny was the first to use it as an insult toward Elmer Fudd, mocking his hunting ability. But I think the joke was lost on people and they took it as a general insult like dummy or, well, numbnuts. It's an awkward, if perfectly cromulent, name.
Nimrod is a king, probably an actual historical king of Babylon; many kings fit the Bible's description somewhat, especially Sargon of Akkad and Hammurabi. The "king as a skilled hunter" motif was common in Babylonian art, and the story of Nimrod seems to allude to this, possibly in a mocking way.
This business about the expository nature of some of Claremont's dialogue has to be credited to Jim Shooter. Shooter was trained by DC editors and one of the things he brought to Marvel was making any random issue of any comic, comfortable for a potential new reader! I think he said every Marvel comic could be SOMEBODY'S first issue so the trick was to give them enough to know what's going on and at the same time, make them want to come back for more! Some people might be critical of this method but Marvel sold a ton of books during Shooter's tenure so he obviously knew what he was doing!
I think it definitely helped bring in new readers at that point in time. I was one of them. But I also think there's a difference between some story exposition and lengthy dialog. Certainly Claremont had more word balloons than, say, a Steve Gerber story around the same time.
Wolverine constantly saying "bub" is one of my favourite jokes about comics. I think the gamegrumps did like a 3 minute bit while playing an X-men game. Thank you Claremont.
This video has explained so much to me. Between scantily clad Storm and all the villainesses in S&M gear, I now understand why I was such an ardent X-men fan when I was 13.
I'm from Ireland, and we spell words the same as the British do, 'daemon' isn't our way of spelling demon. 'Daemon' is simply how it was spelt back in the mid 16th century. Also, it's a Lovecraftian way of spelling it to give the word more of a classical, demonic or magical vibe.
You forgot his use of the interjection of Cripes! Nimrod is a great hunter that the Bible makes one slight reference in Genesis but his book has been lost thousand of years or never existed.
I remember reading this arc when it was coming out. Crazy stuff but high-stakes fun. Thanks for randomly grabbing it. Claremont was the writer who drew me into comics.
11:50 Nimrod is a character from the Bible--Genesis. He's a mighty hunter, and Bugs Bunny referred to Elmer Fudd as a "nimrod", genuinely--people didn't get it, and assumed it means "idiot" or whatever, and lo, NIMROD, IDIOT MUTANT EXTERMINATOR is born.
I know you won't read this but Nimrod was the name of a very powerful biblical king who was the great grandson of Noah. He's a "mighty one in the earth" and a "mighty hunter before the lord". I think he is also seen as one who is a rebel against god. Anywho, he was powerful and that's probably why they named that character as such.
I also grew up with Claremont X-men when I was at Bard College. Later when I was a a case manager at a women's homeless shelter in the Bronx, New York City I ran a creative writing group. Chris is an alumni of Bard so I asked him to speak to the group. He was great fun and I think the writers appreciated the intimate interaction with a celebrity.
Usually when seemingly go berserk and wanting to kill a team mate but then suddenly stop and go, "Be glad I was just faking it, Bub, but if this had been the real world you would be dead by being skewered by my Adamantine lace claws that the Canadian government force on me through the Weapon X program!"
In the book 'Marvel: The Untold Story' it is mentioned how Claremont would get on everyone's last nerve with his over-affection of anything Brit-o-phile/Gaelic/Celtic/UK-based, etc etc (see: Daemon)
I really liked this issue, but yowza, you picked one of his more tropey issues. You were also a bit kind on some of the tropes you could have named. Like tentacles and women, Selene having tentacle arms, or characters transforming/getting hurt and losing almost all their clothes (although that is common in a lot of comics but Claremont did it more than most).
I'm sure someone has commented this before, but daemon isn't the "British" spelling of the word, it's the latin word for a.. lesser type deity or a spirit. The reason it was (I can't see too many people today in the UK using it, unless you're a wordy ponce like myself) utilised so frequently over here is how central "The Classics" were to a lot of our education system. Hell even my Mother's generation were still being taught latin in school. Again dude love the content, you deserve a lot more subscribers than you have currently. You're easy to watch and clearly have a great passion for the medium. If you're ever in the UK again shout me up my dude, I'll get you a pint.
I've just reread Claremont's Excalibur-run and I've spotted his most used trope: Writing the plot so girls can get some new, sweet clothes. The whole run is pretty much "wonderful, amazing wardrobe of their greatest Pryde!"
Nimrod is Hebrew for "hunter." The only reason people think it's an insult is because Bugs Bunny called Elmer Fudd one sarcastically, sort of like "Oh yeah, you're a real killer of men."
I'm currently reading Claremont's X-Men for the first time and I'm shocked there was no mention of "ruby quartz visor", "weather witch" or "bionic housings built into his arms". Though at least reference is made to Claremont's many, many repeated phrases and shortcuts. I also would have counted Claremont's tendency to tell a scene rather than show it. That's easily the biggest drawback of his writing. I love the stories but there are so many times where something would be described and I'd think "well, it would have been nice to see that, Chris."
Amen to that last bit. Claremont would hype some storyline up and then most of it happens off stage and it has serious ramifications for all of one issue.
Just discovered your channel with the Rob Liefeld tropes. Love the videos, and what I love even more is that you're local! Tacoma local here. Grew up in Seattle and moved to Tacoma for cheaper rent. These videos are amazing. Keep up the great work.
Yowza! You might be the best at what you do but I got better. Now, I'm nigh invulnerable. Bang you're dead! But then I thought to myself: Is it my fate to be more beast than man? Lo, how the might have fallen!
The explaining their powers thing is not so much a writer trope but more an editorial thing. I remembe almost all Marvel comics during those time when Jim Shooter was EIC, had that. Even Spidrr-Man.
The ONLY trouble with Claremont is the dialogue! Almost all pages, have entire walls of text, explaining what's happening, what just happened and what could possibly happen. His characters also speak in a really weird way and nobody talks like that in real life at all. I literally struggled through reading his run and got drowsy a LOT of the time.
I never saw any of these tropes as a negative. Claremont's writing style allowed any new reader to pick up the book at any point and quickly grasp the characters, their motivation, and abilities. After he left the X-books they became a directionless convoluted mess without an entrance point for new readers,
8 years later, I'm glad you dropped the drinking game. Currently your analysis is all I want from the channel. Fun's fun, but you are better sober than many other TH-camrs drunk.
Man i have to say i never like comics i use to think they were just lame and losers read them, but i dont know how ended up watching one of your videos and it really got me hooked, i dont know if i could say i love comics i sure love your videos men, you have a really funny way to describe what happens on them, keep em comin, you got a fan here on chihuahua mexico!
Over explaining their powers could also have been Jim Shooter's EIC style. Shooter believed every comic was somebody's first comic so explanations would be dropped in.
i'm surprised one of the tropes wasn't his blatant favoritism of Storm lol. In the long run it worked for Storm and fleshed out her character, but it's still super obvious at times
I remember that book as a teen. Liked it, but yeah should have been better. It played a lot like a "What if" book, which I RARELY liked because the Heroes are "suddenly ", incompetent and easy to kill. LOVED CLAREMONT though, and his skill ,creativity and Passion for our merry mutants. Phoenix, Hellfire Club, "Good Maneto", Rogue, Mystique, Sinister,Sabretooth, Gladiator and The Shi'ar, the Brood, Binary......So MANY great creations.
Also, Clearmont & Romita jammed a helluva lot of story/characters into these 2 issues. Maybe the MCU could do this as a way to do a sick ass Avengers & X-men team up movie? I know they wont tho!
This was awesome. My best friend and I used to laugh at all of these and one or two more when we were in high school (around when that issue came out actually). Glad to see we're not the only ones who noticed. lol
lol !!!! some gin and a classic X-men comic. This comic was a good find. Vision vs Colossus ? What a sick match up. We have some good X-men back issues, if you like what's in your 1st comic beast box and decide to get another, request some X-men ! We know anything past 1990 your not into so as we get new comics in, and I see comics I know you would like, i put it to the side in case you order again in the future.
On Wasp's greatest fear being that she gets turned into a real wasp... I wonder how much of that is Claremont and how much of it is JRJR, because of the Marvel Method and all.
1. The reason why some of the tropes exist is because Claremont is following a rule Stan Lee followed, and Jim Shooter later enforced: every issue is somebody's first issue, so what's going on, who these people are, what they do, and why they're doing it needs to be clearly explained, which Claremont does quite economically. 2. Other tropes provide "character tags," what Blake Snyder called a "limp and an eyepatch." Like in Star Trek: TOS, that certain characters are going to say and/or do certain things that are unique to them.
My favorite (by which I mean least favorite) Claremont-ism was his use of the word "baby." Any time someone referred to someone younger than themselves, they'd call them a baby. Drives me nuts. (Not gonna lie, though, I always liked this storyline.)
I am a very big fan of Claremont's run on X-Men and even had the pleasure of meeting him in 2009 at Florida Supercon. I had been unfamiliar with this part of his run. My perception is that it's very under-collected as I had been familar with Claremont and Cockrun, Claremont and Byrne, the later parts of him with Silvestri and also Lee. The trade "The Gift" helped because this issue (and the other part of the story are collected there. It's a very fun comic story, but a very odd, esoteric one.
The mid-80s era when Storm replaced Cyclops as leader, Magneto reformed and became headmaster of the New Mutants and before X-Factor. It was before the big crossover events like "Mutant Massacre". John Romita Jr's artwork wasn't as pretty as his dad's but he was solid and a clear storyteller.
Nimrod was the name of a Biblical character, a hunter. I believe Bugs Bunny was the first to use it as an insult toward Elmer Fudd, mocking his hunting ability. But I think the joke was lost on people and they took it as a general insult like dummy or, well, numbnuts. It's an awkward, if perfectly cromulent, name.
Nimrod is a king, probably an actual historical king of Babylon; many kings fit the Bible's description somewhat, especially Sargon of Akkad and Hammurabi. The "king as a skilled hunter" motif was common in Babylonian art, and the story of Nimrod seems to allude to this, possibly in a mocking way.
Bugs was being ironic comparing Fudd (who was hunting) to a legendary hunter. The insult stuck !
This business about the expository nature of some of Claremont's dialogue has to be credited to Jim Shooter. Shooter was trained by DC editors and one of the things he brought to Marvel was making any random issue of any comic, comfortable for a potential new reader! I think he said every Marvel comic could be SOMEBODY'S first issue so the trick was to give them enough to know what's going on and at the same time, make them want to come back for more! Some people might be critical of this method but Marvel sold a ton of books during Shooter's tenure so he obviously knew what he was doing!
I think it definitely helped bring in new readers at that point in time. I was one of them. But I also think there's a difference between some story exposition and lengthy dialog. Certainly Claremont had more word balloons than, say, a Steve Gerber story around the same time.
I totally agree with you about single story shot.
Hadn't those guys heard about a narrator or didaskalia?
All these information shouldn't be in dialogs. That makes them unnatural.
It worked for me. I was in 3rd grade at the time...
Josh Morris Agreed. Learned a lot of big words reading X-Men Classic growing up in the 90’s.
Bondage gear is something that should be in all media. Not really a trope just a sign of quality.
Quality kink right there.
👌
Absolutely. It's the pinnacle of elegance.
Huh. Keep talking...
TH-cam: what type of comments do you want to see
Me: Yes
Wolverine constantly saying "bub" is one of my favourite jokes about comics. I think the gamegrumps did like a 3 minute bit while playing an X-men game. Thank you Claremont.
Claremont's my favorite writer of all time. But he definitely had his recurring tropes.
And we loved him for it.
A trope isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
Chris wrote the x-men for 17years. That's unprecendented.Odin bless you, Chris!
Forgot "for all my vaunted power", can't forget that one!
This video has explained so much to me. Between scantily clad Storm and all the villainesses in S&M gear, I now understand why I was such an ardent X-men fan when I was 13.
Man, i'm loving those comic tropes episodes, thx for doing it with my beloved X-Men
Dave Torres Thanks for watching!
Claremont trope: techno-organic viruses! Right?
Absolutely!
Watching from the beginning. It's great to see how this series has evolved and I am so glad it has continued!
I'm from Ireland, and we spell words the same as the British do, 'daemon' isn't our way of spelling demon. 'Daemon' is simply how it was spelt back in the mid 16th century. Also, it's a Lovecraftian way of spelling it to give the word more of a classical, demonic or magical vibe.
LoboDeSade totally agree. From Ireland myself
I'm from England and yup, no one spells it daemon
Roscoroo Cheese well that’s that settled 🤪
@@roscoelovesxmen except satanists and wiccans and such
"Drunk". The word you are looking for is "drunk", as in, "I am a little drunk".
You forgot his use of the interjection of Cripes!
Nimrod is a great hunter that the Bible makes one slight reference in Genesis but his book has been lost thousand of years or never existed.
I remember reading this arc when it was coming out. Crazy stuff but high-stakes fun. Thanks for randomly grabbing it. Claremont was the writer who drew me into comics.
11:50 Nimrod is a character from the Bible--Genesis. He's a mighty hunter, and Bugs Bunny referred to Elmer Fudd as a "nimrod", genuinely--people didn't get it, and assumed it means "idiot" or whatever, and lo, NIMROD, IDIOT MUTANT EXTERMINATOR is born.
I am aware of the origin of the name but in popular culture it is of course synonymous with idiot and that meaning has essentially taken over.
I know you won't read this but Nimrod was the name of a very powerful biblical king who was the great grandson of Noah. He's a "mighty one in the earth" and a "mighty hunter before the lord".
I think he is also seen as one who is a rebel against god.
Anywho, he was powerful and that's probably why they named that character as such.
I also grew up with Claremont X-men when I was at Bard College. Later when I was a a case manager at a women's homeless shelter in the Bronx, New York City I ran a creative writing group. Chris is an alumni of Bard so I asked him to speak to the group. He was great fun and I think the writers appreciated the intimate interaction with a celebrity.
I remember him explaining Wolverine's claws and skeleton issue after issue even in the same arcs. He's a great writer, but I found that kind of funny.
Usually when seemingly go berserk and wanting to kill a team mate but then suddenly stop and go, "Be glad I was just faking it, Bub, but if this had been the real world you would be dead by being skewered by my Adamantine lace claws that the Canadian government force on me through the Weapon X program!"
In the book 'Marvel: The Untold Story' it is mentioned how Claremont would get on everyone's last nerve with his over-affection of anything Brit-o-phile/Gaelic/Celtic/UK-based, etc etc (see: Daemon)
I really liked this issue, but yowza, you picked one of his more tropey issues. You were also a bit kind on some of the tropes you could have named. Like tentacles and women, Selene having tentacle arms, or characters transforming/getting hurt and losing almost all their clothes (although that is common in a lot of comics but Claremont did it more than most).
there are a bunch. "I'm the best there is at what I do...""the full power of my optic blasts!""Bright lady!""Nicht wahr, Liebchen?""Shto!!"
you picked an awesome issue to use! a huge crossover.
I'm sure someone has commented this before, but daemon isn't the "British" spelling of the word, it's the latin word for a.. lesser type deity or a spirit. The reason it was (I can't see too many people today in the UK using it, unless you're a wordy ponce like myself) utilised so frequently over here is how central "The Classics" were to a lot of our education system. Hell even my Mother's generation were still being taught latin in school.
Again dude love the content, you deserve a lot more subscribers than you have currently. You're easy to watch and clearly have a great passion for the medium. If you're ever in the UK again shout me up my dude, I'll get you a pint.
Forgot a very common one: the line "I... hurt".
"Hello, my name is Chris. You caught me being a Chris. Speaking of which, let's talk about another Chris."
Damn this is THE first Comic Tropes? Crazy.
😎🤘🏽
I've just reread Claremont's Excalibur-run and I've spotted his most used trope: Writing the plot so girls can get some new, sweet clothes.
The whole run is pretty much "wonderful, amazing wardrobe of their greatest Pryde!"
Nimrod is Hebrew for "hunter." The only reason people think it's an insult is because Bugs Bunny called Elmer Fudd one sarcastically, sort of like "Oh yeah, you're a real killer of men."
Ahhh interesting
I thought the "I'm the best there is at what I do" line was actually suggested to Claremont by Frank Miller when he helped draw some of the titles
I'm currently reading Claremont's X-Men for the first time and I'm shocked there was no mention of "ruby quartz visor", "weather witch" or "bionic housings built into his arms". Though at least reference is made to Claremont's many, many repeated phrases and shortcuts.
I also would have counted Claremont's tendency to tell a scene rather than show it. That's easily the biggest drawback of his writing. I love the stories but there are so many times where something would be described and I'd think "well, it would have been nice to see that, Chris."
Amen to that last bit. Claremont would hype some storyline up and then most of it happens off stage and it has serious ramifications for all of one issue.
Can't believe I've never seen the first episode, good stuff even in the beginning!
My favorite Clare-trope is golly-gosh-wow.
Welcome to the X-Men, hope you survive the experience. Oh my stars and garters
I seriously can't believe nobody ever said to him "Dude, you've put that on like 18 covers, enough's enough."
Oh hi! you caught me watching Comic
tropes' first episode
11:21 Kulan Gath captured Doctor Strange earlier in the storyline to prevent him from undoing the spell over Manhattan
Great videos from the very start.
Just discovered your channel with the Rob Liefeld tropes. Love the videos, and what I love even more is that you're local! Tacoma local here. Grew up in Seattle and moved to Tacoma for cheaper rent. These videos are amazing. Keep up the great work.
Yowza! You might be the best at what you do but I got better. Now, I'm nigh invulnerable. Bang you're dead! But then I thought to myself: Is it my fate to be more beast than man? Lo, how the might have fallen!
Not a wasp it's a yellow jacket, she fears becoming like her ex husband and losing control and hurting those she loves
The explaining their powers thing is not so much a writer trope but more an editorial thing. I remembe almost all Marvel comics during those time when Jim Shooter was EIC, had that. Even Spidrr-Man.
Time to watch all episodes again from the beginning ! ! !
and again !
I know I'm late but "Apocalypse" was hilarious.
I love the character Selene.
Best comics writer. Best X-Men writer. Wish he was still at it!
You are making my corona days better! I don't know how many videos I already watched
The ONLY trouble with Claremont is the dialogue! Almost all pages, have entire walls of text, explaining what's happening, what just happened and what could possibly happen. His characters also speak in a really weird way and nobody talks like that in real life at all.
I literally struggled through reading his run and got drowsy a LOT of the time.
Before watching predictions: bright lady, goddess, what are you playing at, cadre, in a word electric, baseball or softball game
Oh no... this two-parter. If you did both issues you'd die of alcohol poisoning.
Wow this brings back memories... the first X-Men comic I bought at the supermarket magazine rack
Easily my new favorite channel on here.
Fantastic content.
Keep it up!
I never saw any of these tropes as a negative. Claremont's writing style allowed any new reader to pick up the book at any point and quickly grasp the characters, their motivation, and abilities. After he left the X-books they became a directionless convoluted mess without an entrance point for new readers,
8 years later, I'm glad you dropped the drinking game. Currently your analysis is all I want from the channel. Fun's fun, but you are better sober than many other TH-camrs drunk.
Nice to go back to the first episode
Man i have to say i never like comics i use to think they were just lame and losers read them, but i dont know how ended up watching one of your videos and it really got me hooked, i dont know if i could say i love comics i sure love your videos men, you have a really funny way to describe what happens on them, keep em comin, you got a fan here on chihuahua mexico!
The history of the mythical figure Nimrod is far more cool than the more modern insult.
I really loved and enjoyed this two-issue arc. This issue was the second part/ending of the arc.
To be fair, back on those days there was that mentality of every issue is someone first , so they had to explain it.
That story actually started in Uncanny X-Men #189.
Doesn't Kulan Gath count as a magical foreigner? Oh, and I think the expression you were looking for was nitpicky.
I had fun! And yes I will keep reading comics.
Drunk comictropes trope: "I'm blitzed"
Kulan Gath is keeping the city in perpetual night... so Sunsupot's power would be limited... unless he had a friend with light based powers.
dang been killin it since day one
Immediately got an ad for blue sapphire after watching this
Hilarious episode!
Over explaining their powers could also have been Jim Shooter's EIC style. Shooter believed every comic was somebody's first comic so explanations would be dropped in.
Though you've improved hugely, these have always been good :)
Great work!
We need more fastball specials. Comics can take themselves a little to serious at times
i'm surprised one of the tropes wasn't his blatant favoritism of Storm lol.
In the long run it worked for Storm and fleshed out her character, but it's still super obvious at times
Mad props on the Roddy Piper t-shirt, boss!
Congrats on 100K subscribers!
Dat Apocalypse pic. As always entertaining and great review.
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed my 100% accurate Apocalypse image.
If those are supposed to be examples of Claremont's comics behind you... He didn't write Giant-Size X-men #1. Len Wien did.
I remember that book as a teen. Liked it, but yeah should have been better. It played a lot like a "What if" book, which I RARELY liked because the Heroes are "suddenly ", incompetent and easy to kill. LOVED CLAREMONT though, and his skill ,creativity and Passion for our merry mutants. Phoenix, Hellfire Club, "Good Maneto", Rogue, Mystique, Sinister,Sabretooth, Gladiator and The Shi'ar, the Brood, Binary......So MANY great creations.
Old school Chris.
He also grossly overused the word “proverbial”.
7 shots at 11 am.....mad respect!!!
Wasps greatest fear could be wasps... like that time Bruce got scared by bats.
Time to watch all of comic tropes
I know this is an old vid, but he is called Nimrod after the biblical hunter.
Also, Clearmont & Romita jammed a helluva lot of story/characters into these 2 issues. Maybe the MCU could do this as a way to do a sick ass Avengers & X-men team up movie? I know they wont tho!
This is where it all began
Episode one was DIFFERENT
Man, I enjoyed that one. I was at the height of my comics reading in the era of this issue. Forgot about it until this ish
This was awesome. My best friend and I used to laugh at all of these and one or two more when we were in high school (around when that issue came out actually). Glad to see we're not the only ones who noticed. lol
I loved that issue as a kid. I'd actually love to see a Kulan Gath film now that Marvel has all the characters.
amazing
lol !!!! some gin and a classic X-men comic. This comic was a good find. Vision vs Colossus ? What a sick match up. We have some good X-men back issues, if you like what's in your 1st comic beast box and decide to get another, request some X-men ! We know anything past 1990 your not into so as we get new comics in, and I see comics I know you would like, i put it to the side in case you order again in the future.
Chris Claremont era of The Uncanny X-Men was the best
Brilliant video from the consistently awesome Chris.
Hilarious video! What do you think made his run so popular despite constantly reusing all these tropes?
Great video Chris, but you forgot my favorite Chris Claremontism, "I love you." "And I, you." WHHHOAAAATTTTTT ¿ !?!¿ !?!?!?!?!?!
On Wasp's greatest fear being that she gets turned into a real wasp... I wonder how much of that is Claremont and how much of it is JRJR, because of the Marvel Method and all.
So cool watching your first episode. This is one of my favorite channels.
Very good that, thanks!
You missed “notwithstanding “. He loved a bit of that.
1. The reason why some of the tropes exist is because Claremont is following a rule Stan Lee followed, and Jim Shooter later enforced: every issue is somebody's first issue, so what's going on, who these people are, what they do, and why they're doing it needs to be clearly explained, which Claremont does quite economically.
2. Other tropes provide "character tags," what Blake Snyder called a "limp and an eyepatch." Like in Star Trek: TOS, that certain characters are going to say and/or do certain things that are unique to them.
I enjoyed this very much! You're super informative, and funny :)
My favorite (by which I mean least favorite) Claremont-ism was his use of the word "baby." Any time someone referred to someone younger than themselves, they'd call them a baby. Drives me nuts.
(Not gonna lie, though, I always liked this storyline.)
The Bible states that Nimrod was "a mighty hunter before the Lord" - from Wikipedia of course!
I am a very big fan of Claremont's run on X-Men and even had the pleasure of meeting him in 2009 at Florida Supercon.
I had been unfamiliar with this part of his run. My perception is that it's very under-collected as I had been familar with Claremont and Cockrun, Claremont and Byrne, the later parts of him with Silvestri and also Lee.
The trade "The Gift" helped because this issue (and the other part of the story are collected there. It's a very fun comic story, but a very odd, esoteric one.
The mid-80s era when Storm replaced Cyclops as leader, Magneto reformed and became headmaster of the New Mutants and before X-Factor. It was before the big crossover events like "Mutant Massacre". John Romita Jr's artwork wasn't as pretty as his dad's but he was solid and a clear storyteller.
If he's gonna do this in every episode, I hate to know the situation of his kidneys and liver later on.