Any time Eric Bischoff says he “doesn’t remember” who was behind some of WCW’s more disastrous creative decisions, I take that to mean he and/or Hogan was mostly responsible.
I agree. That was the Hiroshima AND Nagasaki of late 90s wrestling. No way you don’t remember who was behind the decision. If the Fingerpoke of Doome was a hit you’re damn sure Bischoff would be talking about how brilliant he was.
@@Squadala9001 I was talking in general. I didn't mean they turned her heel in 1999. But I still stand by my opinion that she was never meant to be a heel. There's a reason why she barely spoke in WWE. Even despite this she was over as a babyface manager/valet. It wasn't her fault, she was never that good at promos or dialogue and WCW making her heel didn't change that
Another great article. Bang up job. I was in the Dome that night. Floor seats. The place was overwhelmed with energy about Goldberg regaining in the Dome. People were talking HARD about it. And when they showed him being arrested, that's when the booing started. When Nash was suddenly "I'm going to face Hogan as retribution for it", I remember people about me openly saying, "He's going to lose the belt, and they'll reform the nWo as one." When it happened, and all the members of the nWo came out to celebrate, the crowd HATED it. Not heel hate. Angry they'd spent money on tickets (those that did, there was a lot of papering of seats, including my own) hate. WCW took their HOME base audience, and turned on them. And they did it less than a year after giving that same audience a show where they were treated to the crowning of the last home grown talent. It boggles the mind, but with that many active wrestlers being allowed to book themselves, it made perfect sense for it to happen. Too many cooks, and none of them could read a recipe book. Meanwhile, the WWE was doing what they would never do now, and that's properly reward someone for getting over in an organic way. WCW may have been cancelled as a way to make the books look better for an AOL buy-out of Time-Warner, but the poke was the moment that it was clear that WCW did not care about what the fans wanted. They cared about what they wanted.
@DarMar106 it was not pretty. They spent the night hyping up this giant match, and then...like the air was sucked out of the room. The fans were swerved again, and everyone felt cheated.
@@daamovieguy Theres that great shot of the guy in a red hat who raise up his arms and has a “WtF did I just see” look in his face. I think that says it all lol
Cultaholic Wrestling's awesome mini-documentary series is certainly not sugarcoating anything at any of these events during the Monday Night Wars. WCW was up heaven, and then down to hell.
I had to see the Fingerpoke of Doom before watching this episode, and i must confess : i understand why they thought it could work. In *any* other context than wrestling, it would have been a huge deal, and make the villains even more hateable, and the returning hero even more heroic. In a comics,a game, a book, a serie, it would have been a huge twist, suddenly, the bad guys, who we thought divided and so, finally, beatable, were reunited, and the task of the hero seemed now impossible. Huge odds, one hell of a cliffhanger. But it's wrestling, we know it's not real, but we like to pretend it is. So, for us, championship matters, and series of invicibility are huge things. They are not just props, McGuffins and so on, used to further a story. And so, we're angry about it be treated as such. But it's wrestling, we like to pretend it's real, but we know it's not. So we know it was made out of politicking and greed. We know they made that for the wrong reasons, and not to further a story. And so, it dont work. But it's wrestlng, and it should be treated as it is, somewhere between sport and theatre. A thing the writers of WCW seem to have forgotten.
That's a good post but I don't agree with the claim that the storyline would have worked in any other context than wrestling. No matter what the genre or medium you can't tell the same story over and over again and not expect people to get tired of it.
@@BiggieTrismegistus facts they ran that nWo heels winning so much it got old. nWo shoulda ended with Sting toppling them but that starcade match wasn’t what it shoulda been with the botches and hogan being a crappy wrestler. Shoulda been sting cleaning nwo out and winning in dominant fashion instead of that Brett hart “we’re not having another screw job” BS that was awful. They messed up letting hogan have creative control he was so outta touch with what people wanted to see at that point I don’t even wanna think about the warrior feud with the bathroom scene
The problem with wcw by 1999 is that they only had goldberg as a rising star,while their other young stars had moved to wwe because the bigger older stars of wcw wont give way.the fans got sick and tired of wcw having same old dudes duking it out while wwe keep putting out new fresh young talents and actually letting them shine well...
I had been a Nitro fan since it's beginning, I had been loyal to WCW even before Nitro, but after the Finger Poke of Doom I started watching more and more of Raw. WCW was a shell of what it has been by this point, and Raw struck gold with Austin, Rock, Foley, those were the guys I wanted to see. The nWo storyline had run it's course and should have been ended by mid 1998. It had become clear that Guerrero, Rey, Jericho, Benoit, Malenko, Saturn had hit WCWs ceiling for them and they weren't going to top the card over the guys who'd already been on top since at least 1996. After forever changing the business, WCW couldn't figure out how to evolve to keep fresh while WWE pushed limits as Turner reined in what WCW could present.
Yeah, WCW had a good amount of young talent they could've pushed. And made new stars of, but it was still the same old guys on top. Creative really dropped the ball with Goldberg that was the beginning of the end.
The Fingerpoke of Doom, plus the Goldberg vs Hogan title match & Halloween Havoc PPV, furthered the death of World Championship Wrestling and the WWF definitely waited to see their competition fall on its ass. Good times though
Nope I do got to say that the finger point of Doom was the beginning of the end of WCW. The only thing you can say about the hulk Hogan vs Goldberg match was they did not put that on pay-per-view
There is no doubt this is the quintessential program on TH-cam; actually in any medium. The video, editing, production and perfectly sublime voice of Sam Driver make this perfect. I find myself counting down time until another airs. Thank you, Cultaholic ❤️
This is so interesting - really love this series. I was one of those people who swapped channels from WCW to WWF for Mankind's title win. I didn't know any of the insider stuff about Folely, I just knew I really liked his character, and I was really bummed about Goldberg losing. And... honestly I don't know that I really ever looked back. Like, I don't know it was a conscious thing, it was more just "I had fun watching Raw, I did not have fun with Nitro anymore, so I know what I'm watching next week while I do homework." It's just interesting to see the more inside stuff from what I was seeing on my TV as a teenage fan.
By January 1999 I know my friends and I were pretty much only watching Raw. As you say, it's not like we made a conscious decision about it or anything; we just thought Raw was more entertaining. There were two guys in WCW that I thought were worth paying attention to though: Chris Jericho and Goldberg. I remember being annoyed that Goldberg lost the belt at Starrcade 1998 to Kevin Nash but was still intrigued to see where the story was going to go. Then the Fingerpoke of Doom happened and WCW was right back to the nWo status quo I was so tired of by that time. That, combined with Jericho's move to the WWF, completely killed off any interest I had in WCW. By mid-99 the only reason to tune into Nitro was to laugh at how terrible it had become.
This series and WTF Moments are probably my favorite content you guys produce. War Stories is just so well written and edited, and of course the narration is *chef's kiss*.
These are very well done. Cheers to all involved! Also, I was one of the 500k who changed the channel after the "butts in seats" line. I was SO mad about that. I'm glad Schiavone has been able to come back to wrestling in a positive way with AEW.
I got into WCW in 1999 soon after this because that's when it started airing in Australia. It was better than what WWF would air because they actually aired full matches. I remember seeing Chris Benoit vs Bret Hart in a stellar match. There was definitely some cringe but it was free wrestling, and there wasn't a lot of that around at the time
I get your perspective, and it makes sense. It is very different from those poor souls who sat through Bash 96 to Starcade 97 and beyond. That loss, bait and switch, followed by that moment was hard to swallow. You didn't have the baggage of all that unpaid off bullshit and then realize. 'oh, the good guys never get to win again... yay! What's on the other channel?'
When I got back into wrestling a couple of years ago, I learned of the Finger Poke of Doom and the Foley title win (with the Schiavone backfire attached) separately. When I learned that those two things happened the same night, I at first didn't believe it.
Another fantastic episode of War Stories. This is easily my favourite stuff you guys do for content and I cannot wait to see the next one. Keep up the amazing work you guys do
The Fingerpoke of Doom was a curse for WCW because in my opinion, that was the genesis of the declining of WCW. Vince Russo's booking just brought the company further down the toilet. Announcing Mick Foley's title win didn't help either. On the contrary, the FOD was a blessing for WWF, especially for Foley.
For the longest time I’d been mistakenly under the impression that Vince Russo and his booking was the straw that broke the camels back for WCW. I was dead wrong. The fact that WCW booked this contrived bullshit a whole year before Russo even stepped foot in Georgia, and while his booking style was reaching its peak in the WWF, shows that all Russo did was accelerate the process. It was like trynna put out a house fire with gasoline, and Russo was the fire Marshall.
19:41 - In fact, WCW's February 1999 pay-per-view, SuperBrawl IX headlined by Hogan beating Flair once more to retain the WCW title, reportedly _matched_ WWF's St. Valentine's Day Massacre show held a week earlier, each getting around 450k buys according to OSW Review. The Fingerpoke and subsequent nWo reunion _did_ seem to generate about a month, month-and-a-half's worth of buzz - "let's just see where this goes", as the old saying goes - before it fizzled out and viewers began tuning out in droves; and it was then that people looked back at the January 3 Nitro and saw what a _baffling_ show it truly was.
Sam Sam Sam... even though I've been looking forward to this entry in this fantastic series... This one hurts. The Finger Poke of Doom is one of my core memories. It was the night I lost a hero (Nash), a night my other hero got mercilessly humiliated (Goldberg) and the night where my Mom had to tell me wrestling isn't real. SMH. A lot to go through for an 8 year old. SPEAKING OF. "The Night Kayfabe Died" could be a fun/ harrowing series where each of the Culty lads go over the exact moment they found out wrestling isn't real.
I’m not Bill Goldberg’s biggest fan but I applaud him for turning down what they originally wanted to “charge“ him in terms of the phony angle with Miss Elizabeth! It would not of age very well especially today!
I love this series because it counters the long-running narratives, like how the Fingerpoke of Doom was supposedly the Monday Night Wars’ turning point in favor of WWE or the moment that WCW officially went off the rails.
@@BiggieTrismegistus In this case, the long-running narrative is that everything was going great for WCW until the Fingerpoke of Doom. The reality, as talked about in this video, is that WCW was already falling apart well before that. Raw had spent most of 1998 not only closing the ratings gap but regularly beating Nitro, and the Fingerpoke was just the latest in a steady stream of WCW’s bad creative decisions that led to more and more of their fans changing the channel.
@@MrBeardsley Gotcha. I wasn't sure if you were saying that or saying that the Fingerpoke of Doom had nothing to do with the decline of WCW. I agree with the former but not the latter. The Fingerpoke of Doom absolitely accelerated a decline that was already in progress.
The obsession with winning the ratings war was one of the reasons that did WCW in. Near the end of 1997, everyone was already close to declaring WCW the winner of the Monday Night Wars. The Montreal Screwjob had left a lot of egg on Vince McMahon's face, a revolt was barely averted in the WWE's locker room, and with Bret Hart joining WCW's ranks, it looked certain that Vince was doomed to lose. However, after Starrcade 1997, which happened a month after the Screwjob, there were already hints being dropped that WCW may not win after all. In addition, many of the matches that happened on WCW Nitro were quality matches, helped by the talent pool that WCW could utilize, but here is where they made a strategic blunder. In an effort to chase after ratings on free-to-air TV, they were leaving a lot of money on the table for matches which could have more financially sound had they been aired on PPV instead. While the booking was certainly taking a downturn in WCW around this time, they certainly could have used that extra funds to keep their midcard talent around. WCW had one of the best midcard rosters, and they wasted it in favor of placating their main event stars, who were busy playing office politics to keep their TV spot intact. Contrary to what others may say, the Fingerpoke of Doom was not the beginning of the end, but the culmination of everything that was wrong in WCW. I dare say Starrcade 97 was the real declining point for WCW, as they had all the cards in their hand and STILL failed to deliver WWE the finishing blow.
VERY well put! For me, it wasn't one singular thing that put WCW out of business. It was a combination of multiple issues (politics, wasted talent, and yes, the Fingerpoke of Doom) that led to WCW bleeding out.
@@User-qp6cw I remember. I was in 10th Grade watching Nitro with my baby brother who was in 5th Grade at the time. We both Expected Goldberg to be put over and for him to finish Nash easily. The Fingerpoke Part was just plan STUPID, but the Straw that broke the Camel's back for both of us was when NWO and Bischoff stripped Goldberg of the WCW Championship and spray painted "NWO" on the Belt. My Brother and I just sat there in complete silence for 3 minutes. A couple of Commercials Ran through before he bellowed "What In the Heezy? What was that?" I then went "What The Hell just happened? Are they Seriously going to Drag the NWO Angle on like a Dying Horse? I can't watch Nitro anymore, I'm done. We'll watch Thunder." He then replied "Yeah, That was incredibly stupid. I can't take Nitro seriously anymore. If Hogan is going to run Monday Nitro, then we're just wasting our times. I'm Out Bro, Thunder and Raw for me". Even my Classmates were mortified. I remember seeing ones with NWO Shirts prior, they went up to and told me they either will give them away to Value Village or sell them on eBay. Monday Nitro was Mortally Wounded by this debacle. So many quit watching it. Although Owen's Death did hurt RAW significantly in Ratings and helped WCW somewhat, Nitro sorta flatlined and soon became a Loss Leader. WCW Thunder was becoming the thing that was keeping the Promotion alive. Sure in Late 2000, WCW's Promo dept FINALLY came to their senses and gave Scott Steiner and Booker T Big Pushes and made them Main Event Rivals(Which what they SHOULDA done in the first place in 1999 instead of kowtowing to Bollea's Creative Control ) but by '00-01, it was too little,too late. Russo had already driven the final nail in the Coffin for Nitro throughout the year 2000.
@@User-qp6cw My Brother and I watched this in Early 1999. We sat there in Silence for about 3 minutes. I then turned to him and said "They just Cost Turner the Monday Night Ratings War. WCW is about to take a turn for the Worse".
The Fingerpoke of Doom is pretty incredible when you think about it. They buried Goldberg, Nash and their own world title all in one episode. Hell, all in one SEGMENT even. That would be incredible enough on its own, but everything happening with Foley and the free advertising WCW gave about that is what makes that night legendary.
Must resist temptation to make a Kevin Nash torn quad joke.... Damnit the finger poke of Doom was so powerful it took 3 years the death of WCW and a year sitting at home before coming back to the WWF and it changing to WWE for it to travel down his chest and tear his quad. Ohh shit.... I failed.
It's April 9 and I'm watching this for the first time. TH-cam didn't push it for me, and definitely got buried under a plethora of 3-4 news videos a day
What is kind of missing here is the lesser known, bigger problem with that night and the Fingerpoke. It was supposed to be heelish move and it was, but right after, Goldberg returns to beat up the nWo to one of the biggest pops in the history of wrestling! The angered fans were at least going to go home happy with Goldberg destroying everyone. They had Lex Luger join Goldberg in the nWo beatdown only to have Luger pointlessly turn heel and rejoin the nWo and ruin the moment as they beat down Goldberg, pissing off fans even more. That really was the last straw for most fans, not so much just from the Fingerpoke but the B.S. that followed, it was WCW bullshit on top of WCW bullshit.
Would love to see you do a series looking at what the original booking plan had been. Goldberg injured his hand in a segment after this nitro and the planned Goldberg vs nwo is derailed along with any real satisfying payoff. But this wasn’t the only time this has happened, the two man power trip was derailed when HHH got injured, the returned nwo in wwe died a death when Nash went down. There have been many planned feud’s that were altered or simply dropped due to other issues and I would love to see how the cult lads would work out/imagine what the original plan had been.
yeah, grew up watching wwe but for years now i only watch a couple ppvs and the raw after mania per year. now u got aew doing what they r doing (and no, havent watched that many shows by them but have yet to be disappointed when i do), its actually really nice. and ive had this thought where i wondered if this is what wcw fans felt/went through those last few years. dont know if wwe now is as bad cuz i didnt watch wcw back then but it does kinda hurt to see a product i grew up loving becoming what it is today. dont think they will go under cuz they r the undisputed top dog in the industry, but they better be careful. just cuz its not likely dsnt mean its impossible
Once again the blame goes on Eric Bischoff because when renegotiating Hogan's contract in the fall of 98. Bischoff should have told Hogan that he is going to have to put over other wrestlers and he may have to take a lesser role. If Hogan did not like those terms and so what if he was going to go back to WWF. Eric Bischoff should have said that hulk Hogan wasn't pulling in any money anymore and that he was no longer a needle mover.
I still remember reading during that week Foley was going to win WWF belt and decided to tape RAW and watch Nitro. Then the stupid comment from Tony, I knew Eric ordered him, but I decided to watch Raw instead and just tape Raw anyway so I could watch it over and over again, and just skip Nitro that night. That phone call between Tony and Mick was what I was most excited to read about in Foley’s 2nd book. (Exhale breathe) VCR tapes🤔man I’m old
Felt sorry for tony schiavone for a long time this stupid bit of verbiage (witch he was told to say) was the thing a lot of wrestling fans knew him for. I’m glad he is now in Aew where he is beloved again
Having Nash beat Goldberg just seems like a total waste of heat when they could have used it to build a new star instead of bolstering the resume of someone who was already a superstar. In fact, it seems like the kind of thing WWE would do today
The current state of WWE also reminds me a lot of WCW during its decline. Even the WWE's defenders have started to sound like the WCW fans at the time.
Tony S is the man, I would’ve said it too, it was really a war back then . He’s still my favorite announcer and hearing his voice really hits me in the Heart .
January 4th, 1999; the night where fans praised the WWF for airing Mick's World Title win and, after the Fingerpoke of Doom, told WCW "go home, you're drunk!"
I remember weeks after, that after Schiavone said that Foley won the title, there were many rumors that came out that Schiavone was working for Vince all along which nailed the ratings coffin for good.
Well put together, not that it matters now obviously but I think the "fingerpoke of doom" itself is actually the smallest factor here, it's how everything was done that's the problem. How everything was done, shock for the same of shock is crap and it always was.
"I wish that WCW would have won." - Dax Harwood on Twitter. 👍 Outside of Austin and Rock's star power, the venerated (and trashy) "Attitude Era" hasn't aged well at all. And we all know what McMahon's company has turned into over the past 15 years.
Some Attitude Era stuff has aged great. Most has aged like milk. Mick Foley’s stuff if great, Kane was awesome for a year or two after his debut. There’s the DX stuff, XPac is a hell of a wrestler, honestly. He had great matches so frequently. Then there were the tag teams like Hardys, Dudleys, and Edge and Christian, who had fantastic rivalries. But I do agree that 2/3rds of the Attitude Era stuff has aged awfully.
@@Thor-Orion Having only two-thirds of the Attitude Era stuff aging awfully shows how great the WWE in that period. Most of pro wrestling ages badly because it wasn't even very good at the time.
@@BiggieTrismegistus it depends. Jim Crockett from 82-85ish is incredible. Everything involving Bret Hart’s entire career has aged like fine wine. So I think it’s more the quality of the performer and in modern wrestling (post advent of ‘writers’ and not just bookers and agents) the creative obviously matters too.
0:23 "Hampered by Russo at his worst." Shows picture of what we his friends call him: Double J, Jeff Jarrett!! But you? "That's Mr. Slapnuts!" How DARE you.
WCW ran NWO into the ground... So many missed opportunities they had but they blew it on becoming an absolute power no one was able to beat. Vince was the boss everyone was able to beat, in WCW, no one was able to beat the boss. Imagine playing a whole video game knowing you can never beat the boss at the end
Any time Eric Bischoff says he “doesn’t remember” who was behind some of WCW’s more disastrous creative decisions, I take that to mean he and/or Hogan was mostly responsible.
Idk, sounds like WCW backstage was kinda convoluted, wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't remember.
I agree. He can remember who was responsible for all the good things that happened, but gets amnesia with all the negatives. What a coincidence.
Hogan wanted to win the belt, but knew he couldn’t beat Goldberg. Kevin the fall guy, literally fell from a finger.
I agree. That was the Hiroshima AND Nagasaki of late 90s wrestling. No way you don’t remember who was behind the decision. If the Fingerpoke of Doome was a hit you’re damn sure Bischoff would be talking about how brilliant he was.
*cough* Russo *COUGH*
WCW doing WCW things. The fact that they made Miss Elizabeth heel tells you everything you need to know about WCW back in 1999
@@Squadala9001 I was talking in general. I didn't mean they turned her heel in 1999. But I still stand by my opinion that she was never meant to be a heel. There's a reason why she barely spoke in WWE. Even despite this she was over as a babyface manager/valet. It wasn't her fault, she was never that good at promos or dialogue and WCW making her heel didn't change that
Same could be said about hogan if the nwo didn’t work if miss Elizabeth’s heel run was good nobody would’ve called it a bad idea
Easy to say from your 2022 high horse.
@@uncommonsence153 What? I'm not sure you know what a high horse is 😄
Yeah but they also made her a lot hotter in wcw the black look was nice
"Don't watch Raw tonight. Mick Foley is going to win the WWF Championship. Meanwhile, we have the fingerpoke of doom tonight!" lmao
Talk about lack of self-awareness
Another great article. Bang up job. I was in the Dome that night. Floor seats. The place was overwhelmed with energy about Goldberg regaining in the Dome. People were talking HARD about it. And when they showed him being arrested, that's when the booing started. When Nash was suddenly "I'm going to face Hogan as retribution for it", I remember people about me openly saying, "He's going to lose the belt, and they'll reform the nWo as one."
When it happened, and all the members of the nWo came out to celebrate, the crowd HATED it. Not heel hate. Angry they'd spent money on tickets (those that did, there was a lot of papering of seats, including my own) hate. WCW took their HOME base audience, and turned on them. And they did it less than a year after giving that same audience a show where they were treated to the crowning of the last home grown talent. It boggles the mind, but with that many active wrestlers being allowed to book themselves, it made perfect sense for it to happen. Too many cooks, and none of them could read a recipe book.
Meanwhile, the WWE was doing what they would never do now, and that's properly reward someone for getting over in an organic way. WCW may have been cancelled as a way to make the books look better for an AOL buy-out of Time-Warner, but the poke was the moment that it was clear that WCW did not care about what the fans wanted. They cared about what they wanted.
How did they react to the Bischoff and Flair segment earlier on?
What was everyone’s reaction to the fingerpoke?
@DarMar106 it was not pretty. They spent the night hyping up this giant match, and then...like the air was sucked out of the room. The fans were swerved again, and everyone felt cheated.
@@daamovieguy Theres that great shot of the guy in a red hat who raise up his arms and has a “WtF did I just see” look in his face. I think that says it all lol
Sam has a perfect voice for these documentary series. Perfect cadence and inflections.
One of the best series on TH-cam. Hope you're as proud of this as you should be, Sam!
Indeed, always quality in this series
I love this style series, and I think Sam's narration is phenomenal. Please do stuff like this for other eras/companies.
Love this documentary style series. It's probably the best thing you guys do
Agreed
This is a close second for me, I still hold a very soft spot for the WTF moments
@@Kleetus_Van_Damm Yes. I miss them. At least we get the ones for the PPVs. So we get one in 8 days time
@@franklingoodwin can’t come soon enough, I need Ross yelling “it’s John o’clock ya bah-studs”
The podcast is part of my weekly routine at this point lol, but this is definitely top 3
Mr.Driver...I'll give this a grade of A+ Well put together and a very interesting subject
This series could easily be put on TV. Love it!
The pop when Foley finally won the big one will always give me goosebumps
Cultaholic Wrestling's awesome mini-documentary series is certainly not sugarcoating anything at any of these events during the Monday Night Wars. WCW was up heaven, and then down to hell.
As usual, another fantastic War Stories episode! I love the production and writing of these.
I had to see the Fingerpoke of Doom before watching this episode, and i must confess : i understand why they thought it could work. In *any* other context than wrestling, it would have been a huge deal, and make the villains even more hateable, and the returning hero even more heroic.
In a comics,a game, a book, a serie, it would have been a huge twist, suddenly, the bad guys, who we thought divided and so, finally, beatable, were reunited, and the task of the hero seemed now impossible. Huge odds, one hell of a cliffhanger.
But it's wrestling, we know it's not real, but we like to pretend it is. So, for us, championship matters, and series of invicibility are huge things. They are not just props, McGuffins and so on, used to further a story. And so, we're angry about it be treated as such.
But it's wrestling, we like to pretend it's real, but we know it's not. So we know it was made out of politicking and greed. We know they made that for the wrong reasons, and not to further a story. And so, it dont work.
But it's wrestlng, and it should be treated as it is, somewhere between sport and theatre. A thing the writers of WCW seem to have forgotten.
That was beautiful
That's a good post but I don't agree with the claim that the storyline would have worked in any other context than wrestling. No matter what the genre or medium you can't tell the same story over and over again and not expect people to get tired of it.
@@BiggieTrismegistus facts they ran that nWo heels winning so much it got old. nWo shoulda ended with Sting toppling them but that starcade match wasn’t what it shoulda been with the botches and hogan being a crappy wrestler. Shoulda been sting cleaning nwo out and winning in dominant fashion instead of that Brett hart “we’re not having another screw job” BS that was awful. They messed up letting hogan have creative control he was so outta touch with what people wanted to see at that point I don’t even wanna think about the warrior feud with the bathroom scene
The problem with wcw by 1999 is that they only had goldberg as a rising star,while their other young stars had moved to wwe because the bigger older stars of wcw wont give way.the fans got sick and tired of wcw having same old dudes duking it out while wwe keep putting out new fresh young talents and actually letting them shine well...
@@mikeguce7959 I've always wondered if WCW saw the pop that Jericho got on his WWF debut and thought "shit".
I had been a Nitro fan since it's beginning, I had been loyal to WCW even before Nitro, but after the Finger Poke of Doom I started watching more and more of Raw. WCW was a shell of what it has been by this point, and Raw struck gold with Austin, Rock, Foley, those were the guys I wanted to see. The nWo storyline had run it's course and should have been ended by mid 1998. It had become clear that Guerrero, Rey, Jericho, Benoit, Malenko, Saturn had hit WCWs ceiling for them and they weren't going to top the card over the guys who'd already been on top since at least 1996. After forever changing the business, WCW couldn't figure out how to evolve to keep fresh while WWE pushed limits as Turner reined in what WCW could present.
Yeah, WCW had a good amount of young talent they could've pushed. And made new stars of, but it was still the same old guys on top. Creative really dropped the ball with Goldberg that was the beginning of the end.
Very well put.
"After forever changing the business, WCW couldn't figure out how to evolve to keep fresh"
WCW truly were the Sega of professional wrestling.
Glad you mentioned malenko and Saturn them two leaving was bad
The Fingerpoke of Doom, plus the Goldberg vs Hogan title match & Halloween Havoc PPV, furthered the death of World Championship Wrestling and the WWF definitely waited to see their competition fall on its ass. Good times though
Nope I do got to say that the finger point of Doom was the beginning of the end of WCW. The only thing you can say about the hulk Hogan vs Goldberg match was they did not put that on pay-per-view
😊=artt5 ❤🎉 & .
DDP should of won the world championship at Halloween havoc the other end
There is no doubt this is the quintessential program on TH-cam; actually in any medium. The video, editing, production and perfectly sublime voice of Sam Driver make this perfect. I find myself counting down time until another airs. Thank you, Cultaholic ❤️
This is better than morning coffee. Thanks for the content, guys and great job on the presentation, Sam
War Stories is my favourite thing on TH-cam. Appreciate the hard work that goes into making them.
WWF in late 98 through late 99 was an absolute beast. I was 9 and every kid i knew watched WWF and not WCW. They had the youth.
I really starting to like these mini documentaries you guys do. Not to long, not to short and packed with a lot of information. Keep it up
This is so interesting - really love this series. I was one of those people who swapped channels from WCW to WWF for Mankind's title win. I didn't know any of the insider stuff about Folely, I just knew I really liked his character, and I was really bummed about Goldberg losing.
And... honestly I don't know that I really ever looked back. Like, I don't know it was a conscious thing, it was more just "I had fun watching Raw, I did not have fun with Nitro anymore, so I know what I'm watching next week while I do homework."
It's just interesting to see the more inside stuff from what I was seeing on my TV as a teenage fan.
By January 1999 I know my friends and I were pretty much only watching Raw. As you say, it's not like we made a conscious decision about it or anything; we just thought Raw was more entertaining. There were two guys in WCW that I thought were worth paying attention to though: Chris Jericho and Goldberg. I remember being annoyed that Goldberg lost the belt at Starrcade 1998 to Kevin Nash but was still intrigued to see where the story was going to go. Then the Fingerpoke of Doom happened and WCW was right back to the nWo status quo I was so tired of by that time. That, combined with Jericho's move to the WWF, completely killed off any interest I had in WCW. By mid-99 the only reason to tune into Nitro was to laugh at how terrible it had become.
This series and WTF Moments are probably my favorite content you guys produce. War Stories is just so well written and edited, and of course the narration is *chef's kiss*.
These are very well done. Cheers to all involved! Also, I was one of the 500k who changed the channel after the "butts in seats" line. I was SO mad about that. I'm glad Schiavone has been able to come back to wrestling in a positive way with AEW.
Hogan, Nash, Hall, The NWO made wcw great... They also killed it
I got into WCW in 1999 soon after this because that's when it started airing in Australia. It was better than what WWF would air because they actually aired full matches. I remember seeing Chris Benoit vs Bret Hart in a stellar match. There was definitely some cringe but it was free wrestling, and there wasn't a lot of that around at the time
I get your perspective, and it makes sense. It is very different from those poor souls who sat through Bash 96 to Starcade 97 and beyond. That loss, bait and switch, followed by that moment was hard to swallow. You didn't have the baggage of all that unpaid off bullshit and then realize. 'oh, the good guys never get to win again... yay! What's on the other channel?'
Bret vs Benoit great technique in both sides maybe not the best talkers but both great wrestlers
When I got back into wrestling a couple of years ago, I learned of the Finger Poke of Doom and the Foley title win (with the Schiavone backfire attached) separately. When I learned that those two things happened the same night, I at first didn't believe it.
Another fantastic episode of War Stories. This is easily my favourite stuff you guys do for content and I cannot wait to see the next one. Keep up the amazing work you guys do
The Fingerpoke of Doom was a curse for WCW because in my opinion, that was the genesis of the declining of WCW. Vince Russo's booking just brought the company further down the toilet. Announcing Mick Foley's title win didn't help either. On the contrary, the FOD was a blessing for WWF, especially for Foley.
For the longest time I’d been mistakenly under the impression that Vince Russo and his booking was the straw that broke the camels back for WCW. I was dead wrong. The fact that WCW booked this contrived bullshit a whole year before Russo even stepped foot in Georgia, and while his booking style was reaching its peak in the WWF, shows that all Russo did was accelerate the process. It was like trynna put out a house fire with gasoline, and Russo was the fire Marshall.
19:41 - In fact, WCW's February 1999 pay-per-view, SuperBrawl IX headlined by Hogan beating Flair once more to retain the WCW title, reportedly _matched_ WWF's St. Valentine's Day Massacre show held a week earlier, each getting around 450k buys according to OSW Review. The Fingerpoke and subsequent nWo reunion _did_ seem to generate about a month, month-and-a-half's worth of buzz - "let's just see where this goes", as the old saying goes - before it fizzled out and viewers began tuning out in droves; and it was then that people looked back at the January 3 Nitro and saw what a _baffling_ show it truly was.
Expert narration for this series, Sam!
These Series should really be on TV ..not just TH-cam, they are that damn good!
The wrestling equivalent of “Nah uh! Told you so!”
Sam Sam Sam... even though I've been looking forward to this entry in this fantastic series... This one hurts.
The Finger Poke of Doom is one of my core memories.
It was the night I lost a hero (Nash), a night my other hero got mercilessly humiliated (Goldberg) and the night where my Mom had to tell me wrestling isn't real.
SMH.
A lot to go through for an 8 year old.
SPEAKING OF.
"The Night Kayfabe Died" could be a fun/ harrowing series where each of the Culty lads go over the exact moment they found out wrestling isn't real.
What a mark
I love this series and this has been one I have been waiting for Sam to talk about. Keep it up, I love this stuff.
You know it's going to be a good day when you see Cultaholic have posted a new War Story.
I’m not Bill Goldberg’s biggest fan but I applaud him for turning down what they originally wanted to “charge“ him in terms of the phony angle with Miss Elizabeth! It would not of age very well especially today!
It was stupid what was Orginal plan. Wouldn't fly then & surely wouldn't fly today. WCW made several critical mistakes that night
I love this series because it counters the long-running narratives, like how the Fingerpoke of Doom was supposedly the Monday Night Wars’ turning point in favor of WWE or the moment that WCW officially went off the rails.
How does this video "counter the long-running narratives"? If anything it does the exact opposite.
@@BiggieTrismegistus In this case, the long-running narrative is that everything was going great for WCW until the Fingerpoke of Doom. The reality, as talked about in this video, is that WCW was already falling apart well before that. Raw had spent most of 1998 not only closing the ratings gap but regularly beating Nitro, and the Fingerpoke was just the latest in a steady stream of WCW’s bad creative decisions that led to more and more of their fans changing the channel.
@@MrBeardsley Gotcha. I wasn't sure if you were saying that or saying that the Fingerpoke of Doom had nothing to do with the decline of WCW. I agree with the former but not the latter. The Fingerpoke of Doom absolitely accelerated a decline that was already in progress.
The obsession with winning the ratings war was one of the reasons that did WCW in. Near the end of 1997, everyone was already close to declaring WCW the winner of the Monday Night Wars. The Montreal Screwjob had left a lot of egg on Vince McMahon's face, a revolt was barely averted in the WWE's locker room, and with Bret Hart joining WCW's ranks, it looked certain that Vince was doomed to lose. However, after Starrcade 1997, which happened a month after the Screwjob, there were already hints being dropped that WCW may not win after all. In addition, many of the matches that happened on WCW Nitro were quality matches, helped by the talent pool that WCW could utilize, but here is where they made a strategic blunder. In an effort to chase after ratings on free-to-air TV, they were leaving a lot of money on the table for matches which could have more financially sound had they been aired on PPV instead. While the booking was certainly taking a downturn in WCW around this time, they certainly could have used that extra funds to keep their midcard talent around. WCW had one of the best midcard rosters, and they wasted it in favor of placating their main event stars, who were busy playing office politics to keep their TV spot intact. Contrary to what others may say, the Fingerpoke of Doom was not the beginning of the end, but the culmination of everything that was wrong in WCW. I dare say Starrcade 97 was the real declining point for WCW, as they had all the cards in their hand and STILL failed to deliver WWE the finishing blow.
VERY well put!
For me, it wasn't one singular thing that put WCW out of business. It was a combination of multiple issues (politics, wasted talent, and yes, the Fingerpoke of Doom) that led to WCW bleeding out.
@@User-qp6cw I remember. I was in 10th Grade watching Nitro with my baby brother who was in 5th Grade at the time. We both Expected Goldberg to be put over and for him to finish Nash easily. The Fingerpoke Part was just plan STUPID, but the Straw that broke the Camel's back for both of us was when NWO and Bischoff stripped Goldberg of the WCW Championship and spray painted "NWO" on the Belt. My Brother and I just sat there in complete silence for 3 minutes. A couple of Commercials Ran through before he bellowed "What In the Heezy? What was that?" I then went "What The Hell just happened? Are they Seriously going to Drag the NWO Angle on like a Dying Horse? I can't watch Nitro anymore, I'm done. We'll watch Thunder." He then replied "Yeah, That was incredibly stupid. I can't take Nitro seriously anymore. If Hogan is going to run Monday Nitro, then we're just wasting our times. I'm Out Bro, Thunder and Raw for me".
Even my Classmates were mortified. I remember seeing ones with NWO Shirts prior, they went up to and told me they either will give them away to Value Village or sell them on eBay.
Monday Nitro was Mortally Wounded by this debacle. So many quit watching it. Although Owen's Death did hurt RAW significantly in Ratings and helped WCW somewhat, Nitro sorta flatlined and soon became a Loss Leader. WCW Thunder was becoming the thing that was keeping the Promotion alive. Sure in Late 2000, WCW's Promo dept FINALLY came to their senses and gave Scott Steiner and Booker T Big Pushes and made them Main Event Rivals(Which what they SHOULDA done in the first place in 1999 instead of kowtowing to Bollea's Creative Control ) but by '00-01, it was too little,too late. Russo had already driven the final nail in the Coffin for Nitro throughout the year 2000.
@@User-qp6cw My Brother and I watched this in Early 1999. We sat there in Silence for about 3 minutes. I then turned to him and said "They just Cost Turner the Monday Night Ratings War. WCW is about to take a turn for the Worse".
@@Tornado1994 How right you were.
Did you see much of WCW after this, or wrestling at all?
@@User-qp6cw Didn't watch WCW for a good 3 months after this. Watched WWF until Owen Hart's death, and Quit WWF for good After May 31,1999.
Fast becoming my fav series on Culty.
The Fingerpoke of Doom is pretty incredible when you think about it. They buried Goldberg, Nash and their own world title all in one episode. Hell, all in one SEGMENT even.
That would be incredible enough on its own, but everything happening with Foley and the free advertising WCW gave about that is what makes that night legendary.
War Stories is the most underrated wrestling youtube series by far
The work sam has put it is amazing and makes for a great watch
Thankyou Mr Driver!
The most important and defining moment of the Monday Night Wars.
The Finger Poke of Doom the ultimate finisher
This is Cultaholic’s best show
This is one of my favourite things you do, keep up the good work!
Must resist temptation to make a Kevin Nash torn quad joke.... Damnit the finger poke of Doom was so powerful it took 3 years the death of WCW and a year sitting at home before coming back to the WWF and it changing to WWE for it to travel down his chest and tear his quad. Ohh shit.... I failed.
It's April 9 and I'm watching this for the first time. TH-cam didn't push it for me, and definitely got buried under a plethora of 3-4 news videos a day
Another great documentary with another great Sam Driver narration.
What is kind of missing here is the lesser known, bigger problem with that night and the Fingerpoke. It was supposed to be heelish move and it was, but right after, Goldberg returns to beat up the nWo to one of the biggest pops in the history of wrestling! The angered fans were at least going to go home happy with Goldberg destroying everyone. They had Lex Luger join Goldberg in the nWo beatdown only to have Luger pointlessly turn heel and rejoin the nWo and ruin the moment as they beat down Goldberg, pissing off fans even more. That really was the last straw for most fans, not so much just from the Fingerpoke but the B.S. that followed, it was WCW bullshit on top of WCW bullshit.
Would love to see you do a series looking at what the original booking plan had been. Goldberg injured his hand in a segment after this nitro and the planned Goldberg vs nwo is derailed along with any real satisfying payoff. But this wasn’t the only time this has happened, the two man power trip was derailed when HHH got injured, the returned nwo in wwe died a death when Nash went down. There have been many planned feud’s that were altered or simply dropped due to other issues and I would love to see how the cult lads would work out/imagine what the original plan had been.
Love what you guys are doing
The best series Cultaholic do and that's a very high bar! Brilliant work guys!
The more I watch WWE, the more I see how they're turning into WCW and I hope they're able to turn it around.
I've noticed that same thing. Even the WWE's defenders have started to sound like WCW fans circa 1999.
yeah, grew up watching wwe but for years now i only watch a couple ppvs and the raw after mania per year.
now u got aew doing what they r doing (and no, havent watched that many shows by them but have yet to be disappointed when i do), its actually really nice.
and ive had this thought where i wondered if this is what wcw fans felt/went through those last few years. dont know if wwe now is as bad cuz i didnt watch wcw back then but it does kinda hurt to see a product i grew up loving becoming what it is today.
dont think they will go under cuz they r the undisputed top dog in the industry, but they better be careful. just cuz its not likely dsnt mean its impossible
They are not nowhere near, in the last 7 years WWE has been absolutely outstanding certainly better than they were between 2010 and 2015.
Once again the blame goes on Eric Bischoff because when renegotiating Hogan's contract in the fall of 98. Bischoff should have told Hogan that he is going to have to put over other wrestlers and he may have to take a lesser role. If Hogan did not like those terms and so what if he was going to go back to WWF. Eric Bischoff should have said that hulk Hogan wasn't pulling in any money anymore and that he was no longer a needle mover.
Of course Bischoff would be too scared to do all of that for many reasons.
Best time ever to be a Wrestling fan!!!
"that'll put butts in seats..."
I still remember reading during that week Foley was going to win WWF belt and decided to tape RAW and watch Nitro. Then the stupid comment from Tony, I knew Eric ordered him, but I decided to watch Raw instead and just tape Raw anyway so I could watch it over and over again, and just skip Nitro that night. That phone call between Tony and Mick was what I was most excited to read about in Foley’s 2nd book.
(Exhale breathe) VCR tapes🤔man I’m old
"Play(ing) second banana", gotta say, I've never heard that before, but I'm gonna be using it!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great series. Awesome work Sam and team
Felt sorry for tony schiavone for a long time this stupid bit of verbiage (witch he was told to say) was the thing a lot of wrestling fans knew him for. I’m glad he is now in Aew where he is beloved again
Very good documentary. Loved the ending
broo!!🔥🔥🔥🔥I love these war stories,can y'all please continue with them🙏🏾🔥🔥I want mooooreeeee
I was in the building for the Finger poke of doom. It didn't feel like the beginning of the end.
Hindsight is 20/20.
Please bring this series back.
Having Nash beat Goldberg just seems like a total waste of heat when they could have used it to build a new star instead of bolstering the resume of someone who was already a superstar. In fact, it seems like the kind of thing WWE would do today
The current state of WWE also reminds me a lot of WCW during its decline. Even the WWE's defenders have started to sound like the WCW fans at the time.
😂😂😂😂😂
Cultaholic's war stories are gold 🪙🥇❤️
This is my favorite wrestling series on TH-cam
I was one who flipped channels to see the title change
They should change it to
"The Fingerpoke of death of WCW" or "Mick Foley vs. Fingerpoke of doom".
Tony S is the man, I would’ve said it too, it was really a war back then . He’s still my favorite announcer and hearing his voice really hits me in the
Heart .
Thank you for making videos
Great episode!
Defo!
That was one of the biggest pops I’ve ever heard during the WWF title match…and it wasn’t even for Mick winning…it was for the returning Stone Cold…
January 4th, 1999; the night where fans praised the WWF for airing Mick's World Title win and, after the Fingerpoke of Doom, told WCW "go home, you're drunk!"
When in doubt with no matter what life throws at you just remember "Eric Bischoff is an idiot..."
Bret Hart continues to be right.
Another solid entry in a great series.
I remember weeks after, that after Schiavone said that Foley won the title, there were many rumors that came out that Schiavone was working for Vince all along which nailed the ratings coffin for good.
Great episode I LOVE WAR STORIES I HOPE THERE ARE MORE
To have one of the worst decisions in pro wrestling in one night is bad, to have two in the same night? well that’s just late Monday Night Nitro
That was a perfect sell by Kevin Nash.
Also on January 4 1999 was when Keiji Mutoh beat Scott Norton for the IWGP heavyweight Championship.
I didn't know that. That would be overshadowed here in the US by this story.
This documentary series will put butts in seats
I cant get enough of these!
I remember flipping to wcw to see the finger poke and it caused a huge argument in my household. Lol good times
Best ep yet, loved this
Warrior and Hogan had a match that put me to sleep twice.
Well put together, not that it matters now obviously but I think the "fingerpoke of doom" itself is actually the smallest factor here, it's how everything was done that's the problem. How everything was done, shock for the same of shock is crap and it always was.
Fantastic video as always
The beginning of the end for the WCW
Oh yes... been waiting for this one!
Beautifully done Sam
"I wish that WCW would have won." - Dax Harwood on Twitter. 👍
Outside of Austin and Rock's star power, the venerated (and trashy) "Attitude Era" hasn't aged well at all. And we all know what McMahon's company has turned into over the past 15 years.
Some Attitude Era stuff has aged great. Most has aged like milk. Mick Foley’s stuff if great, Kane was awesome for a year or two after his debut. There’s the DX stuff, XPac is a hell of a wrestler, honestly. He had great matches so frequently. Then there were the tag teams like Hardys, Dudleys, and Edge and Christian, who had fantastic rivalries. But I do agree that 2/3rds of the Attitude Era stuff has aged awfully.
@@Thor-Orion Having only two-thirds of the Attitude Era stuff aging awfully shows how great the WWE in that period. Most of pro wrestling ages badly because it wasn't even very good at the time.
@@BiggieTrismegistus it depends. Jim Crockett from 82-85ish is incredible. Everything involving Bret Hart’s entire career has aged like fine wine. So I think it’s more the quality of the performer and in modern wrestling (post advent of ‘writers’ and not just bookers and agents) the creative obviously matters too.
@@Thor-Orion Owen Hart's Black Hart and Jeff Jarrett Tag Team angles aged very well.
0:23 "Hampered by Russo at his worst."
Shows picture of what we his friends call him: Double J, Jeff Jarrett!!
But you? "That's Mr. Slapnuts!"
How DARE you.
Why does Hogan at 6:15 look like ny sleep paralysis monster ?
Love your voice over
Sams soothy voice, how lucky we are :)
WCW catchphrase: ah we fucked it
WCW ran NWO into the ground... So many missed opportunities they had but they blew it on becoming an absolute power no one was able to beat. Vince was the boss everyone was able to beat, in WCW, no one was able to beat the boss. Imagine playing a whole video game knowing you can never beat the boss at the end