Hey! Thanks for the video! You are right in saying that by pulling the "trim strap" you can simply adjust the point of where you want the bar to power or depower the kite, so you can have a more comfortable ride. Still, the case is that when the wind gets very strong, although you might have the bar all depowered, the kite still catches some wind and keeps pulling you. By pulling the "trim strap" you will shorten the front lines (in comparison to the back lines) and therefore the kite will result to be more depowered. It is like you have stretched the back lines, changing the angle of attack, and the kite is catching less wind... Ciao! :-)
Jeff, I just watched your 5 year old video on kite trim and depower. Excellent job explaining and demonstrating the concept. I you have ever used the early Ozone 5 line kites, the trim strap was an actual depower adjustment strap. As you pulled in on the “depower Strap” it shortened the center line twice as much as the front lines. This actually significantly changes the power of the kite, you are effectively changeing the bridle on the kite. The Ozone 5 line bars had additional trim tabs on each end of the bar to adjust the trim by shortening or lengthening the back lines. North 5 line Rebels did not have this same system as the North bars adjusted all three front lines the same amount. I often use my Ozone 5 line bars on my 5 line Rebels.
I’m a rookie in all of this but great explanation in my humble opinion. And now I understand that I have that shoulder problem and no one told me. 👍🏼 thanks
Thank you Jeff, your explanation makes so much sense on two levels- riding position and range of power control of one's control bar trim. Excellent presentation.
Well said, Jeff, thanks. I will recommend this video to our students. And keep in mind, folks, when you are moving along and under load-- the max and min power spots for the bar tend to move further away from you.
I see what you are saying, but it only seems to apply if you have gotten to that point where your rear lines are slack. I don't think ( or at least am not aware of ) I have ever reached that point. If your bar is completely out and your rear lines aren't slack then pulling in the trim tab is getting you more depower, is it not ?
Thank you for the videos, very good explanation. I think a good video for us newbies would be on tips/requirements to go kiteboarding without instruction, after taking lessons. This was a intimidating experience for me and a video would have been very helpful. Regards and keep up the good work!
Absolut correct video. I had this conversation with a famous strapless pro rider ,(under the top 5 in the world) it is NOT a depower strap. !!!!! It is just for adjustment !!!! At my kite surf instructor course I learned it wrong as well. To shorten the trim strap means you get less AOA … when you park your kite at 12 and you do not move is that correct …. If you are riding THIS video is 100 % perfect .!!!!😎🤙🏾🤙🏾🤙🏾thanks
But as he explains you "just" move the position of the bar ... But at the end of the bar you get ... *Drumroll* more depower as the bar comes closer to you, you enable more depower at the end of the bar that you couldnt reach before because of the stopperball was in the way...
Thats a very good video, in the uk I've seen instructors explain the depower option on the trim, i've had arguments with them saying its a dangerous misconception, the safe wind range of the kite is fixed i can't be moved by the trim strap..
This makes perfect sense to me if I look at how the lines attach to the kite. The center lines go to a fixed harness on the kite's leading edge. The angle of that harness at the kite's leading edge doesn't change with trimming the center lines, it just pulls the kite closer to you. By pulling the kite closer to you, the steering lines come closer to you also. Steering lines are what power the kite by changing the attitude/angle of the kite in relation to the fixed harness leading edge. Pulling the bar in brings the back corners and trailing edge of the kite toward you, which presents more surface area to the wind. The center lines keep a fixed point for the "face" of the kite to rotate on front-to-back, so when you pull that bar in, you generally have more surface area catching the wind, and it generally gives you more pull & power. Letting the bar out creates slack on the back steering lines, allowing the kite's trailing edge to move away from you, while the center lines stay fixed, presenting less surface area of the kite to the wind, and generally gives less pull & power. None of this changes just because you bring the kite a little closer to you - the only thing that changes is how close the bar is to you when the steering lines are taut. If you pull the bar closer to you by pulling in the center lines, you can't pull the trailing edge as far forward, thus the idea of "depower" - but powering and depowering the kite is done with the steering lines only via pulling in the bar, or letting it out. I hope this helps folks understand a little more, it sure made a difference for me - FINALLY. Thanks Jeff!
But its not 100% true as the lines when the bar is out with no depower is equally long and with depower the steering lines are longer at the same position. Hence when the bar is out you get more depower if you pulled your depower... Sure, you can pull the depower and fly the kite the same with the bar just closer to you as he talks about but to say it doesn't give you more depower is just bullshit.
@@liiiinder If your steering line are slack you don't get 'more depower' by making them slacker... so the only way you would be getting 'more depower' by letting your trim strap out is if it was originally so far in that your steering lines never went slack. I hope you don't actually Kite, or at the very least I hope you've learned more about how your kite works in the past 9 months
@@TheElidhu Well read what I wrote again. I didn't talk about slacked lines. If you have the bar fully sheeted out and you trim the kite you get "more" depower. Ofc to the point where the line slacks when that happens you cant get more... and if you're still overpowered you should think about pulling the release.
@@TheElidhu when the lines are slacked you don't get any more tho... But say that it doesn't do shit is completely false as we all agree that the trim changes the length of the front lines, that means you either have longer or shorter steering lines compared to the front lines which affects the possible angle of the kite.
@@TheElidhu did you even see the other comment I did 9 months ago even stating the slack thing you bashing me for ... th-cam.com/video/tBXL2zTqHoo/w-d-xo.html&lc=Ugzwzb9iEo0etnQbTCB4AaABAg
Great Video and is right 😉 But when you trim your bar also the maximun and minimum possible de-power within the way of the bar is change of course. And thats the reason because you have to trim (depower) your kite of you ride unhooked of when the wind peaks up. Otherwise you will be overpowered in the most cases.
Great video ... so .... there are really 2 or 3 ridding positions on the bar? 1) all the way out or depowered or like when u let go of the bar 2) then there is neutral which is when you pull on the bar to make the rear lines tense (no more slacked lines) and there's some power. 3) powered when you pull the bar all the way in, or is this considered over-sheeting? Is this right?
It does make a lot of sense. But on the other hand the higher your depower is the more you can pull the lines down and squeeze more power out of the kite because you have a more aggressive angle of attack. So in some way you are actually adjusting the power... Let me know if I'm wrong...
Too much angle of attack and the kite can back stall, so it’s about trimming your kite to the point just before the kite will back stall when the bar is pulled all the way in.
great video but I have been confused as have always kited with North Rebels until I bought Liquid force Solows now I have noticed for the first time that i have slack back lines the kite feels ok but could it feel better?
Very nice BUT, I ride waves cross on shore and when UPWIND on the wave the de-power trim makes a difference to get the most upwind capability on the kite. So fully depowered and a touch of flutter is the minimum drag and min lift
If that's the case than something is wrong with my kite lines, I objectively feel a difference of pull with a fully depowered trim strap (and bar sheeted out) vs a full powered trim strap (and bar sheeted out).
It's not true that when back lines go slack that is max depower. There still is small angle of kite attack. In high end wind back lines hold tension and kite still produce lots of power. To reduce that power you have to make front lines shorter so trim strap on front lines is depower strap.
While explained part is true, there is one part missed. The other direction of bar travel. When trim strap is pulled there is lower range left to pull the bar towards the rider to power his kite, right?
It is right and wrong. In real life, your back lines will not come loose as it does in this video since they are not fixed on a wall. Letting the back lines go will result in the kite changing its attack angle and the back lines will therefore keep tension. It is true that at some point they will come slack but not with such little change. Also, if adjusting the length this way, you get less room to power up. Another way would be to connect the back lines on another knot At the kite to get proper length to start with. This way you keep more adjustment left in you trim (or depower) cleat.
Yeah, when the lines go slack you dont have more depower but if the lines doesnt go slack at the end you can get more depower by using the depower strap or trim adjustment if you would like to call it that and shorten those frontlines during the session... kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/progression/kite-trimming
The back line adjustment on the Clickbar serves the same purpose, it just does it slightly different. Either way, the trim adjustment is accomplishing the same thing.
@@kiteboardingcom1 while it think your explanation is correct in regards to the sweetspot adjustment, it misses the fact that longer backlines / shorter frontlines modify the range of the AoA (angle of attack) in which the kite/wing operates more to the point: - without trim, the kite flies between 10 degres AoA (sheeted out) and 20 degrees AoA (sheeted in) - fully trimmed, the kite flies between 0 and 10 degrees AoA, respectively a lower AoA in the same windspeed means less power in the kite, therefore the trim line does influence minimum and maximum power delivery of course, these are approximate figures and the minimum possible AoA (fully trimmed, fully sheeted out) is set by the producer, otherwise you get a front stall
Not really, you change the position but you change the max and min aswell which gives you less or more power. kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/progression/kite-trimming
To me, the visual example seems to contradict what is stated. At 1:45 there is (lets say) 8 inches of throw, which will change the AoA. When he pulls the trim strap, his bar moves down the line and he himself claims that it will have the same AoA. If you take a look at the depower distance he now has - it's 12 inches, which will surely change AoA considerably? So an assertion that adjusting the trim line will allow you to depower more seems legitimate to me. It also aligns with what I've personally experienced in practice. In totally lit days where you are powered even at max throw, pulling in on trim line seems to significantly reduce power at max throw.
thet rigth it call the trim . or wath ever happen in the evolution but dont want to call the depower line how you depower your kite? yes angle of attac ? i understund. olso after trim the kite you set to go . you find the sweet spot on the bar . k.i.s.s and remember ther kite at 45 dg. the shift the wind windows whit the rigth condinattion betwin true wind and induce wind . thet create apparent wind and offcorse is easy to not have the power on the bar all the way up . k.i.s,s kipe it simple sister. probly the most safe bar in the market and now probly the last safe bar in the market.
I love your instructional videos but this is the one video that doesn't seem to be entirely correct. You can easily feel that pulling the trim strap in takes some of the power out of the kite including when you sheet the bar all the way in. This is a copy/paste from the Cabrinha control bar manual where they specifically say that pulling the trim strap depowers the kite slightly: "Both the CAS (Centreline Adjustment Strap) found on the Overdrive Bars, and the Trim Lite Cleat System found on the fixed bars, effectively change the length of your front lines (referred to as trim). By pulling on the CAS Orange Handle, or the Trim Lite Webbing handle you shorten the line (depowers the kite slightly). To repower the kite you need to lengthen the front lines by either pulling on the CAS Black Handle, or by releasing the Cleat Line from the Trim Lite system."
Thanks for the comment. I understand what you are saying and while that is true for a fixed line kite, one with a fixed attachment point on the bar. On a kite with a chicken loop, the strap trims or adjusts where the power/depower happens along the chicken loop line. So when you are riding the actual de-powering of the kite is completed by your pushing the bar away from you. By adjusting the trip strap, you can ride "fully powered" with the bar pushed away several inches. Pulling the bar all the way to the bottom of the chicken loop line would then over sheet the kite.
good call please explain how and were the power . were aply and way after goone ? were the wind thet you need to generate power ? wath it call and way ? and were come from ? l
the concept of this video is totally wrong. trim or depower gets the fronts shorter. so it makes your kite less powerful. for a proof just try to fly a kite in its hight end with the trim all powered, than try to fly it with the trim all depowered.
"I'll just depower my kite!" By making it power up more... Because when i cut the length of my back lines, the angle of the kite tightens and you're in full attack mode in wind that's potentially too much for your kite. Yea agreed, what a stupid name. It does literally the opposite of "depower"
Excellent clarification of an issue I was scratching my head about as a beginner. Many thanks!
Hey! Thanks for the video! You are right in saying that by pulling the "trim strap" you can simply adjust the point of where you want the bar to power or depower the kite, so you can have a more comfortable ride. Still, the case is that when the wind gets very strong, although you might have the bar all depowered, the kite still catches some wind and keeps pulling you. By pulling the "trim strap" you will shorten the front lines (in comparison to the back lines) and therefore the kite will result to be more depowered. It is like you have stretched the back lines, changing the angle of attack, and the kite is catching less wind... Ciao! :-)
I watched a bunch of videos and this was by far the most helpful in explaining the idea behind the trim adjustment
UUUUHWEEEHH thanks Jeff - I finally understood the depower system correctly. Very nice explanation. Thanks!
Jeff, I just watched your 5 year old video on kite trim and depower.
Excellent job explaining and demonstrating the concept.
I you have ever used the early Ozone 5 line kites, the trim strap was an actual depower adjustment strap. As you pulled in on the “depower Strap” it shortened the center line twice as much as the front lines. This actually significantly changes the power of the kite, you are effectively changeing the bridle on the kite. The Ozone 5 line bars had additional trim tabs on each end of the bar to adjust the trim by shortening or lengthening the back lines.
North 5 line Rebels did not have this same system as the North bars adjusted all three front lines the same amount.
I often use my Ozone 5 line bars on my 5 line Rebels.
Great job Jeff in your explanation with your chicken loop lines
I’m a rookie in all of this but great explanation in my humble opinion. And now I understand that I have that shoulder problem and no one told me. 👍🏼 thanks
Thank you Jeff, your explanation makes so much sense on two levels- riding position and range of power control of one's control bar trim. Excellent presentation.
Well said, Jeff, thanks. I will recommend this video to our students. And keep in mind, folks, when you are moving along and under load-- the max and min power spots for the bar tend to move further away from you.
I see what you are saying, but it only seems to apply if you have gotten to that point where your rear lines are slack. I don't think ( or at least am not aware of ) I have ever reached that point. If your bar is completely out and your rear lines aren't slack then pulling in the trim tab is getting you more depower, is it not ?
Great explanation Jeff. Cleared some things up for me.
Thank you for the videos, very good explanation. I think a good video for us newbies would be on tips/requirements to go kiteboarding without instruction, after taking lessons. This was a intimidating experience for me and a video would have been very helpful. Regards and keep up the good work!
Love the training and explanation on the bar
Thanks for shearing your knowledge
Excellent excellent excellent explanation thank you thank you thank you I am a newbie and I’m learning and this is very helpful
Absolut correct video. I had this conversation with a famous strapless pro rider ,(under the top 5 in the world) it is NOT a depower strap. !!!!!
It is just for adjustment !!!! At my kite surf instructor course I learned it wrong as well. To shorten the trim strap means you get less AOA … when you park your kite at 12 and you do not move is that correct …. If you are riding THIS video is 100 % perfect .!!!!😎🤙🏾🤙🏾🤙🏾thanks
so helpful, first time explained that makes total sense to me! thank you!
Agree...makes total sense...removes the confusion and misunderstanding of 'depower'....!
But as he explains you "just" move the position of the bar ... But at the end of the bar you get ... *Drumroll* more depower as the bar comes closer to you, you enable more depower at the end of the bar that you couldnt reach before because of the stopperball was in the way...
Thats a very good video, in the uk I've seen instructors explain the depower option on the trim, i've had arguments with them saying its a dangerous misconception, the safe wind range of the kite is fixed i can't be moved by the trim strap..
Great Video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Thanks, well explained. Love your a straight shooter altitude
This makes perfect sense to me if I look at how the lines attach to the kite. The center lines go to a fixed harness on the kite's leading edge. The angle of that harness at the kite's leading edge doesn't change with trimming the center lines, it just pulls the kite closer to you. By pulling the kite closer to you, the steering lines come closer to you also.
Steering lines are what power the kite by changing the attitude/angle of the kite in relation to the fixed harness leading edge. Pulling the bar in brings the back corners and trailing edge of the kite toward you, which presents more surface area to the wind. The center lines keep a fixed point for the "face" of the kite to rotate on front-to-back, so when you pull that bar in, you generally have more surface area catching the wind, and it generally gives you more pull & power.
Letting the bar out creates slack on the back steering lines, allowing the kite's trailing edge to move away from you, while the center lines stay fixed, presenting less surface area of the kite to the wind, and generally gives less pull & power.
None of this changes just because you bring the kite a little closer to you - the only thing that changes is how close the bar is to you when the steering lines are taut. If you pull the bar closer to you by pulling in the center lines, you can't pull the trailing edge as far forward, thus the idea of "depower" - but powering and depowering the kite is done with the steering lines only via pulling in the bar, or letting it out.
I hope this helps folks understand a little more, it sure made a difference for me - FINALLY. Thanks Jeff!
But its not 100% true as the lines when the bar is out with no depower is equally long and with depower the steering lines are longer at the same position. Hence when the bar is out you get more depower if you pulled your depower... Sure, you can pull the depower and fly the kite the same with the bar just closer to you as he talks about but to say it doesn't give you more depower is just bullshit.
@@liiiinder If your steering line are slack you don't get 'more depower' by making them slacker... so the only way you would be getting 'more depower' by letting your trim strap out is if it was originally so far in that your steering lines never went slack. I hope you don't actually Kite, or at the very least I hope you've learned more about how your kite works in the past 9 months
@@TheElidhu Well read what I wrote again. I didn't talk about slacked lines.
If you have the bar fully sheeted out and you trim the kite you get "more" depower.
Ofc to the point where the line slacks when that happens you cant get more... and if you're still overpowered you should think about pulling the release.
@@TheElidhu when the lines are slacked you don't get any more tho... But say that it doesn't do shit is completely false as we all agree that the trim changes the length of the front lines, that means you either have longer or shorter steering lines compared to the front lines which affects the possible angle of the kite.
@@TheElidhu did you even see the other comment I did 9 months ago even stating the slack thing you bashing me for ... th-cam.com/video/tBXL2zTqHoo/w-d-xo.html&lc=Ugzwzb9iEo0etnQbTCB4AaABAg
Thank you! Great info.
Zajebiscie wytlumaczone :)
Awesome explanation!
thanks I'm learning a lot from ur videos! ;)
Brilliant and definitely accurate.
Great Video and is right 😉 But when you trim your bar also the maximun and minimum possible de-power within the way of the bar is change of course. And thats the reason because you have to trim (depower) your kite of you ride unhooked of when the wind peaks up. Otherwise you will be overpowered in the most cases.
it makes a lot of sense! thanks
Thanx for this excellent explanation!
THANK YOU!
AWESOME VIDEO!!!
Great explanation, thanks.
Finally I get it. thanks!!!!
Thanks great video👍👍👍
Thanks great video
good job!
Great video thanks
I was using it totally in wrong way. Thank you!
Thank you!
Good explanation
Great video ... so .... there are really 2 or 3 ridding positions on the bar?
1) all the way out or depowered or like when u let go of the bar
2) then there is neutral which is when you pull on the bar to make the rear lines tense (no more slacked lines) and there's some power.
3) powered when you pull the bar all the way in, or is this considered over-sheeting?
Is this right?
Brillant...
Thanks
It does make a lot of sense. But on the other hand the higher your depower is the more you can pull the lines down and squeeze more power out of the kite because you have a more aggressive angle of attack. So in some way you are actually adjusting the power... Let me know if I'm wrong...
Too much angle of attack and the kite can back stall, so it’s about trimming your kite to the point just before the kite will back stall when the bar is pulled all the way in.
Thank you
great video but I have been confused as have always kited with North Rebels until I bought Liquid force Solows now I have noticed for the first time that i have slack back lines the kite feels ok but could it feel better?
Very nice BUT, I ride waves cross on shore and when UPWIND on the wave the de-power trim makes a difference to get the most upwind capability on the kite. So fully depowered and a touch of flutter is the minimum drag and min lift
If that's the case than something is wrong with my kite lines, I objectively feel a difference of pull with a fully depowered trim strap (and bar sheeted out) vs a full powered trim strap (and bar sheeted out).
It's not true that when back lines go slack that is max depower. There still is small angle of kite attack. In high end wind back lines hold tension and kite still produce lots of power. To reduce that power you have to make front lines shorter so trim strap on front lines is depower strap.
While explained part is true, there is one part missed. The other direction of bar travel. When trim strap is pulled there is lower range left to pull the bar towards the rider to power his kite, right?
Hi, exactly my thoughts. The further away you have the bar then the more power you can get by pulling the bar forward
Do you have a video explaining the same with the recoil system? Thanx!
It is right and wrong. In real life, your back lines will not come loose as it does in this video since they are not fixed on a wall. Letting the back lines go will result in the kite changing its attack angle and the back lines will therefore keep tension. It is true that at some point they will come slack but not with such little change. Also, if adjusting the length this way, you get less room to power up. Another way would be to connect the back lines on another knot At the kite to get proper length to start with. This way you keep more adjustment left in you trim (or depower) cleat.
Hey what brand is that bar? I am looking for a bar like this one with one center line
I mean the two center lines bundled in one at the end u know
Yeah, when the lines go slack you dont have more depower but if the lines doesnt go slack at the end you can get more depower by using the depower strap or trim adjustment if you would like to call it that and shorten those frontlines during the session... kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/progression/kite-trimming
@kiteboarding.com, what about the clickbar? there's not "trim line", only adjusting the lenght of the back lines
The back line adjustment on the Clickbar serves the same purpose, it just does it slightly different. Either way, the trim adjustment is accomplishing the same thing.
@@kiteboardingcom1 while it think your explanation is correct in regards to the sweetspot adjustment, it misses the fact that longer backlines / shorter frontlines modify the range of the AoA (angle of attack) in which the kite/wing operates
more to the point:
- without trim, the kite flies between 10 degres AoA (sheeted out) and 20 degrees AoA (sheeted in)
- fully trimmed, the kite flies between 0 and 10 degrees AoA, respectively
a lower AoA in the same windspeed means less power in the kite, therefore the trim line does influence minimum and maximum power delivery
of course, these are approximate figures and the minimum possible AoA (fully trimmed, fully sheeted out) is set by the producer, otherwise you get a front stall
So a more correct name would be " bar power position strap" ?
Not really, you change the position but you change the max and min aswell which gives you less or more power. kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/progression/kite-trimming
To me, the visual example seems to contradict what is stated. At 1:45 there is (lets say) 8 inches of throw, which will change the AoA. When he pulls the trim strap, his bar moves down the line and he himself claims that it will have the same AoA. If you take a look at the depower distance he now has - it's 12 inches, which will surely change AoA considerably?
So an assertion that adjusting the trim line will allow you to depower more seems legitimate to me. It also aligns with what I've personally experienced in practice. In totally lit days where you are powered even at max throw, pulling in on trim line seems to significantly reduce power at max throw.
thet rigth
it call the trim . or wath ever happen in the evolution
but dont want to call the depower line
how you depower your kite? yes angle of attac ?
i understund.
olso after trim the kite you set to go . you find the sweet spot on the bar .
k.i.s.s
and remember ther kite at 45 dg. the shift the wind windows whit the rigth condinattion betwin true wind and induce wind . thet create apparent wind and offcorse is easy to not have the power on the bar all the way up .
k.i.s,s
kipe it simple sister.
probly the most safe bar in the market
and now probly the last safe bar in the market.
I love your instructional videos but this is the one video that doesn't seem to be entirely correct. You can easily feel that pulling the trim strap in takes some of the power out of the kite including when you sheet the bar all the way in. This is a copy/paste from the Cabrinha control bar manual where they specifically say that pulling the trim strap depowers the kite slightly:
"Both the CAS (Centreline Adjustment Strap) found on the Overdrive Bars, and the Trim Lite Cleat System found on the fixed bars, effectively change the length of your front lines (referred to as trim). By pulling on the CAS Orange Handle, or the Trim Lite Webbing handle you shorten the line (depowers the kite slightly). To repower the kite you need to lengthen the front lines by either pulling on the CAS Black Handle, or by releasing the Cleat Line from the Trim Lite system."
Thanks for the comment. I understand what you are saying and while that is true for a fixed line kite, one with a fixed attachment point on the bar. On a kite with a chicken loop, the strap trims or adjusts where the power/depower happens along the chicken loop line. So when you are riding the actual de-powering of the kite is completed by your pushing the bar away from you. By adjusting the trip strap, you can ride "fully powered" with the bar pushed away several inches. Pulling the bar all the way to the bottom of the chicken loop line would then over sheet the kite.
that not true. the power is not the same .
good call please explain
how and were the power .
were aply and way after goone ?
were the wind thet you need to generate power ?
wath it call and way ?
and were come from ?
l
the concept of this video is totally wrong. trim or depower gets the fronts shorter. so it makes your kite less powerful. for a proof just try to fly a kite in its hight end with the trim all powered, than try to fly it with the trim all depowered.
"I'll just depower my kite!" By making it power up more... Because when i cut the length of my back lines, the angle of the kite tightens and you're in full attack mode in wind that's potentially too much for your kite. Yea agreed, what a stupid name. It does literally the opposite of "depower"
thank you, great explanation.