Fantastic video. Who doesn't like a good mystery?? But to have the numbers in maintenance logs, photos of the serial tags... Way too cool! Nice job, John!!!
Greece probably yanked the engine out for overhaul and replaced it with another that was already built. Then this one was rebuilt and installed in Slater when she needed a new engine. Visited Slater about ten years ago, excellent tour and ship in great condition.
I was a QM3 aboard the USS Charles P Cecil DD835 in 1968. We helped sink the Jack along with other ships in the 6th fleet. Everybody had a "shot" at it but as I remember it was the submarine we always did ops with that struck the fatal blow. It took a lot of punishment before it finally sank. I think I remember entering the Lon. and Lat. of the sinking in ship's log. I'm from Rensselaer, right across the river from the Slater.
We had 2 GM 16-278A engines on the USS Lexington as emergency generators. Also the WW2 era Navy harbor tug I was on, Accohanoc YT-545 had the much shorter V-6 version the 6-278A as it's main engines powering the diesel electric drive. The 278 series GM engines were good engines. A bit thirsty but they were reliable and made good power.
My father served on the Stern, Wesson and lastly the Swearer, all Cannons. He stayed stateside as part of a skeleton crew mothballing these ships. He was a radio operaterator. It would be nice to see bridge and communications areas. He passed away at the age of 96 , 2023.
I would say the Jack's engin was pulled out for rebuild and replaced with a simular rebuilt unit ready for that use. When the diesel was repaired it was used in the slater in the same fashion. That's my guess.
I've never heard an engine of that kind running. Even though it's also a two-stroke, i imagine it would sound appreciably different to the familiar EMD 567?
There is a video of the 8 cylinder running. Check my channel for video of the 3 cylinder running. The 16 is that, just louder. USS Silversides has video of their 16-248s running.
It's more probable that Skater's one of the engine was damaged or worn out beyond repair, so it was more economical to install the power pack replacement from the Jack just to extend the service of the ship for few more years. An engine replacement just for training is too costly, as cutting hull replacement and re-welding the ship side plates and carrying out survey of the hull.
That would make sense. The Greek sub Amfitriti (S-17) was "loaned" to Greece for 9 years, '58 to '67. The ship USS Slater (Aetos) was kept in service until 1991. One person said Greece partially stripped the sub of parts then did a sloppy job of repair before its return. (I wonder if that's why the sub broke near the engine room.) The other 4 Gato class subs were simply stripped/scrapped. If the "stripped" story is true, the US gov't maybe didn't want them back. The last 2 Gatos were kept operational until 1993, probably using parts from USS Lapon (Poseidon). 50 years of service from a Gato sub is remarkable.
The engine in this video has very close to factory spec on the crank wear levels. So I’m guessing it was the best they had around. The liners are irrelevant. It’s either catastrophic damage or the crank wore out beyond spec.
I know there was discussion on ever starting the engines due to questionable water compartments for cooling. you should reach out to scott from bus greas monkey as hes an expert on diesel engines. Would be an awesome collaboration between the two channels. And would love to see if he could help get atleast one running
To use the original plant would require a drydocking and millions of dollars. We would need to find qualified personnel and pass inspections. Never say never. If a future generation wants to tackle that they can. We don't do anything to her engines that will make it harder for them to be overhauled in the future.
@@USSSlaterI agree with Anthony, at least talk to Bus Grease Monkey. I bet, if these are in complete condition, no way millions of dollars. Or maybe not even a dry dock. You had to “pass inspection” to start the generator diesel? Would think so. It is not like you would turn the props (if they are still in). Although that would be cool too. Look at all the zillions of folks went nuts and helped financially with the powering up and moving the 16” guns on Wisconsin . We need to get all these WW2+ museums ships heart beats going. Here in Indiana, the LST museum is fully functional and makes river runs.
locomotive or maritime tugboat engineers would likely be more familiar with the big emd, not to cast any shade at scott, but the high speed 2 stroke diesels he's use to are quite a bit different from a prime mover with their supply systems, the engine itself likely could be ready to be in a very short time with little more then normal prerun checks, open the cocks for the cylinders and roll it over a few times to verify clear, and valve train function biggest issues i see to starting the ship engine would be, the sea chests/intakes are likely capped/welded over, and the ships fuel system may not be in usable condition, same for the air compressor/storage system for starting
@@wdixon27Engineer from Slater here. We have some things in the works to get one running, but we have some more pressing issues we need to take care of first. Maybe this winter we will get it turning over again.
@@johnross6314Engineer from Slater here. We have some things in the works to get one running, but we have some more pressing issues we need to take care of first. Maybe this winter we will get it turning over again. Channel owner probably thought you meant to take the ship sailing again using the original drivetrain.
It came from the Jack. The Greek navy replaced the engine in the 60’s. Slater has a hole in the hull in the compartment suggesting that took the block out from the side.
Interesting bit of history on the Slater's main engines...One thing I've not been able to figure out was the numbering system used on the Cleveland/GMCs; specifically, the "248", "268", "278"...Unlike EMD or Detroit Diesel, it doesn't stand for per-cylinder displacement...Any ideas?
It did once you got to the Detroits. The 278 was back when they were just numbering them as improvements came. 268 had aluminum pistons, while 278 switched to steel. The actual displacement is roughly 10,000 cu in. It’s 165 liters. The 278 is essentially a Winton 248. The displacement wasn’t in the name until the 6-71 and later 6-110 Detroits. Not sure on the EMD side, but 567 does sound about right per cylinder. Also, the Winton factory and team were wholesale sold to GM. They changed very little, and let Winton do their thing. The 248 was sold as Winton. And then later also sold as Cleveland’s. So even though it’s all under the GM umbrella, it’s was essentially 3 completely separate operations that borrowed ideas from each other.
Thanks for the reply; very informative! I do recall that I read a list of the various Winton/Cleveland/GMC engines; the numbers seemed to loosely relate to when the engine was introduced; higher numbers were more recent, so the "498" variant of the 278 series was fairly late in Cleveland-GMCs life (it's a turbocharged version). And, yes, the "567" EMD (also built by Cleveland for a while) does refer to per-cylinder displacement; later variants were, of course, the 645 and 710 series. EMD's 4-stroke powerplant was called the 265 (based on the bore diameter in millimeters); it's been reintroduced as the "1010H" or "J" variant (1010 cu. in./cyl.)@@jimmiles33
The numbering system used by Cleveland was the design file number. It was a carry over from Winton and had nothing to do with actual engine specifications like the EMD's did starting with the 567.
bruh get your audio game figured out. the whistle and the static are at jarring/potential ear damage levels compared to the dialogue, if using headphones.
The H.O.R. diesels were so bad that they were known by the sub crews as "whores"*(a play on their initials) and all were swapped out. It was a major WW II scandal. Source, "Silent Victory" A history of WW II submarine actions by Clay Blair.
Fantastic video. Who doesn't like a good mystery?? But to have the numbers in maintenance logs, photos of the serial tags... Way too cool! Nice job, John!!!
Greece probably yanked the engine out for overhaul and replaced it with another that was already built. Then this one was rebuilt and installed in Slater when she needed a new engine. Visited Slater about ten years ago, excellent tour and ship in great condition.
Yes, common mix and match, like with locomotives. An engine is due for overhaul? Swap it for an identical unit from the just-retired submarine
I was a QM3 aboard the USS Charles P Cecil DD835 in 1968. We helped sink the Jack along with other ships in the 6th fleet. Everybody had a "shot" at it but as I remember it was the submarine we always did ops with that struck the fatal blow. It took a lot of punishment before it finally sank. I think I remember entering the Lon. and Lat. of the sinking in ship's log. I'm from Rensselaer, right across the river from the Slater.
We had 2 GM 16-278A engines on the USS Lexington as emergency generators. Also the WW2 era Navy harbor tug I was on, Accohanoc YT-545 had the much shorter V-6 version the 6-278A as it's main engines powering the diesel electric drive. The 278 series GM engines were good engines. A bit thirsty but they were reliable and made good power.
I remember walking by one while visiting in the 1980s. The deck was red around the engine if memory serves
Impressive engineering. Thanks for the video.
My father served on the Stern, Wesson and lastly the Swearer, all Cannons. He stayed stateside as part of a skeleton crew mothballing these ships. He was a radio operaterator. It would be nice to see bridge and communications areas. He passed away at the age of 96 , 2023.
I would say the Jack's engin was pulled out for rebuild and replaced with a simular rebuilt unit ready for that use. When the diesel was repaired it was used in the slater in the same fashion.
That's my guess.
3:20What a sad end for a vessel with such a distinguished record
Apologies accepted.
More on Burke, someday soon hopefully.
Proud looking ship's mascot.
Thomas M. Dykers, who served on the Jack during WW2, did the introductions to episodes of the 1950s TV series, "The Silent Service."
[5:17] Unusual antics, even for Greek sailors... Was the Amphitrite crossing the Equater?
Lot of Cleavland 16 278 diesel electrics in rail road tugs and harbor ship docking tugs 1950s till the late 1990s
I've never heard an engine of that kind running. Even though it's also a two-stroke, i imagine it would sound appreciably different to the familiar EMD 567?
There is a video of the 8 cylinder running. Check my channel for video of the 3 cylinder running. The 16 is that, just louder. USS Silversides has video of their 16-248s running.
It's more probable that Skater's one of the engine was damaged or worn out beyond repair, so it was more economical to install the power pack replacement from the Jack just to extend the service of the ship for few more years. An engine replacement just for training is too costly, as cutting hull replacement and re-welding the ship side plates and carrying out survey of the hull.
That would make sense. The Greek sub Amfitriti (S-17) was "loaned" to Greece for 9 years, '58 to '67. The ship USS Slater (Aetos) was kept in service until 1991. One person said Greece partially stripped the sub of parts then did a sloppy job of repair before its return. (I wonder if that's why the sub broke near the engine room.) The other 4 Gato class subs were simply stripped/scrapped. If the "stripped" story is true, the US gov't maybe didn't want them back. The last 2 Gatos were kept operational until 1993, probably using parts from USS Lapon (Poseidon). 50 years of service from a Gato sub is remarkable.
The engine in this video has very close to factory spec on the crank wear levels. So I’m guessing it was the best they had around. The liners are irrelevant. It’s either catastrophic damage or the crank wore out beyond spec.
I know there was discussion on ever starting the engines due to questionable water compartments for cooling. you should reach out to scott from bus greas monkey as hes an expert on diesel engines. Would be an awesome collaboration between the two channels. And would love to see if he could help get atleast one running
To use the original plant would require a drydocking and millions of dollars. We would need to find qualified personnel and pass inspections. Never say never. If a future generation wants to tackle that they can. We don't do anything to her engines that will make it harder for them to be overhauled in the future.
@@USSSlaterI agree with Anthony, at least talk to Bus Grease Monkey. I bet, if these are in complete condition, no way millions of dollars. Or maybe not even a dry dock. You had to “pass inspection” to start the generator diesel? Would think so. It is not like you would turn the props (if they are still in). Although that would be cool too. Look at all the zillions of folks went nuts and helped financially with the powering up and moving the 16” guns on Wisconsin . We need to get all these WW2+ museums ships heart beats going. Here in Indiana, the LST museum is fully functional and makes river runs.
locomotive or maritime tugboat engineers would likely be more familiar with the big emd, not to cast any shade at scott, but the high speed 2 stroke diesels he's use to are quite a bit different from a prime mover with their supply systems, the engine itself likely could be ready to be in a very short time with little more then normal prerun checks, open the cocks for the cylinders and roll it over a few times to verify clear, and valve train function
biggest issues i see to starting the ship engine would be, the sea chests/intakes are likely capped/welded over, and the ships fuel system may not be in usable condition, same for the air compressor/storage system for starting
@@wdixon27Engineer from Slater here. We have some things in the works to get one running, but we have some more pressing issues we need to take care of first. Maybe this winter we will get it turning over again.
@@johnross6314Engineer from Slater here. We have some things in the works to get one running, but we have some more pressing issues we need to take care of first. Maybe this winter we will get it turning over again.
Channel owner probably thought you meant to take the ship sailing again using the original drivetrain.
Fantastic job John. Makes perfect sense they would yank and replace with a rebuilt engine. But how?
There does appear to be cut marks in her side. Whether or not they are from construction or engine replacement isn't 100% known.
@USSSlater thanks, looking forward to seeing them in the springtime!
About the only thing noisier than those small diesel propulsion engine rooms is a Top Fuel dragster...
Nothing like a screaming Jimmy of that size. As soon as it started one knew.
Okay, so the engine is original then to the ship or did it come from the Jack? The interruption is confusing stating it's original.
It came from the Jack. The Greek navy replaced the engine in the 60’s.
Slater has a hole in the hull in the compartment suggesting that took the block out from the side.
@@jimmiles33 Thank you I thought that, but wasn't sure what the interruption was talking about.
The HOR engines were based on a design licensed from Germany. The Germans knew the design was defective to begin with.
Saw the slater a while back .had s good time despite them not letting me shoot down any aircraft going into albany airport with those bofor guns.😂
Interesting bit of history on the Slater's main engines...One thing I've not been able to figure out was the numbering system used on the Cleveland/GMCs; specifically, the "248", "268", "278"...Unlike EMD or Detroit Diesel, it doesn't stand for per-cylinder displacement...Any ideas?
It did once you got to the Detroits. The 278 was back when they were just numbering them as improvements came. 268 had aluminum pistons, while 278 switched to steel. The actual displacement is roughly 10,000 cu in. It’s 165 liters.
The 278 is essentially a Winton 248. The displacement wasn’t in the name until the 6-71 and later 6-110 Detroits. Not sure on the EMD side, but 567 does sound about right per cylinder.
Also, the Winton factory and team were wholesale sold to GM. They changed very little, and let Winton do their thing. The 248 was sold as Winton. And then later also sold as Cleveland’s.
So even though it’s all under the GM umbrella, it’s was essentially 3 completely separate operations that borrowed ideas from each other.
Thanks for the reply; very informative! I do recall that I read a list of the various Winton/Cleveland/GMC engines; the numbers seemed to loosely relate to when the engine was introduced; higher numbers were more recent, so the "498" variant of the 278 series was fairly late in Cleveland-GMCs life (it's a turbocharged version).
And, yes, the "567" EMD (also built by Cleveland for a while) does refer to per-cylinder displacement; later variants were, of course, the 645 and 710 series. EMD's 4-stroke powerplant was called the 265 (based on the bore diameter in millimeters); it's been reintroduced as the "1010H" or "J" variant (1010 cu. in./cyl.)@@jimmiles33
The numbering system used by Cleveland was the design file number. It was a carry over from Winton and had nothing to do with actual engine specifications like the EMD's did starting with the 567.
bruh get your audio game figured out. the whistle and the static are at jarring/potential ear damage levels compared to the dialogue, if using headphones.
The video is good but the opening whistle is extremely uncomfortable to hear. It puts me off subscribing to your channel.
Apologies, hopefully you reconsider. It will be fixed.
I imagine the Greek Navy will have those records.
RHEOSTATS - "RHEE O STATS".
"Ship's Dog, 1/C". Wonderful!
The H.O.R. diesels were so bad that they were known by the sub crews as "whores"*(a play on their initials) and all were swapped out. It was a major WW II scandal.
Source, "Silent Victory" A history of WW II submarine actions by Clay Blair.