i love how you mentioned that sally rooney's economic word choices is not only intentional but very effective at communicating emotion and intent to the reader. and how much trust she places in the reader to infer meaning from context, rather than spoon feeding it to them. i enjoyed intermezzo a lot as well and this was such a thorough review of both the book & discourse surrounding it - bravo!
Thanks for this. I thought Normal People went right over my head. What bothered me most was the characters didn’t make sense to me. Their actions didn’t match their thoughts/beliefs. I guess I just never understood how seriously we were supposed to take them. That said the characters in Intermezzo sound like people I have met more than the characters in Conversations.
For me it’s always the crazy level of hype around Rooney’s books that puts me off. I read Normal People but that’s before it all got mad. I guess also there’s nothing really that pulls me into the books based on the premises either. Maybe at some point I will try another one. Great review as always Scott. Pleased you loved it. ❤
I enjoyed Intermezzo (it was my most anticipated book of 2024!), but it did not reach the highs of Beautiful World for me. Beautiful World became one of my favorite books, I think because I related so much to the characters at the time I read it. But I see that Intermezzo is her most mature and introspective, and I love watching her grow as a person & a writer with each novel.
Really interesting review and discussion, thank you. I'm sure I will read Intermezzo in a while, and based on reviews (including yours) it sounds like something I'd like. I agree with a lot of what you say about being able to relate to characters, and how that can shape enjoyment of books like Rooney's. I've read her three previous novels, and liked some more than others (which seems pretty normal to me). My least favourite by far was Beautiful World. I remember thinking that the characters did not feel real to me at all - who were these pretentious people writing long letters about their lives to each other? Anyway, I later discovered that two of my work friends write long, reflective emails to each other about their lives, things they've read/watched recently, and general musings. And I thought oh my god, they're like the main characters in Beautiful World. Forgive me, Sally 😂
Thank you for this thoughtful review, Scott. I haven't read Sally Rooney yet, but I think that this will be my introduction to her work. The combination of your review and Dwight Garner's in The New York Times have made me think that this might be a good introduction to her for me.
Thank you, Scott!🌷I’ve only read Normal People, liked it (wasn’t particularly enthusiastic about it though) and actually wasn’t going to read Intermezzo. However, after listening to your great review, I think I will!
There's just something so inherently irish about Rooneys characters - many people find them unlikeable but irish culture genuinely is to just get on with things and not talk about anything 😂
Really interesting to see you explore popular works from different angles than your own! I LOVE slice-of-life writing where nothing much happens, unlikeable but complex characters, complicated relationships, lack of plot. I really should love Rooney but I don't. I quite liked Normal People, the prose was understated, the character relationships felt realistic, but I didn't think it was that outstanding. I couldn't get into Conversations with Friends at all. It is way too 'show-don't-tell'; where are the actual impactful conversations with friends? I do not want to be told how smart a bunch of pretentious people are, though I did appreciate that the main character was Autistic-coded and had endometriosis. I haven't read Beautiful World. I've read my free sample of Intermezzo but don't feel drawn in enough to go on. I have met plenty of people like her characters - but maybe you are onto something because I can't personally relate to them. I think the only character of hers I related to was Connell because we had a similar experience. My problem is that a lot of her characters are part of the intellectual elite or pretentious in some way and I feel she doesn't explore that in a way that makes them interesting to me personally. They just live in their 'Trinity College' bubble, a place where I will never belong. To me, a good author can make me care about absolutely anyone, no matter how different or unlikeable. I also found most of her prose simply boring, I found myself skimming a lot, but I would have to do a more thorough analysis to tell you why. Intermezzo seemed more interesting prose-wise. I love Claire Keegan's prose, by contrast. You make me think about why I like things! I'm glad I get to complain and be picky, it just shows how many brilliant Irish authors there are to choose from. I'm just after reading Intimacies by Lucy Cadwell, fabulous explorations of motherhood and womanhood (but short stories so it might not be for you).
I finally understood why Intermezzo just didn’t work for me! You are completely right, if you cannot relate to Ivan and Peter you will not understand their decisions and the plot. This was exactly the cause for me. I liked the writing and the characters in themselves, but their choices made no sense to me. I felt really bad for rating this book low on Goodreads, because I realized it’s not a bad literary work but very dependent on hitting home in yourself. I think I’ll give this book another try in the future. You never know if you can relate in the future or not.
I've read all Rooney's books and enjoyed reading Intermezzo. Loved your review. BTW she did do research on chess and credits the Irish Chess Union and particular individuals in the notes at the end. Apparently she doesn't play herself but her maths teacher husband took to playing online during the pandemic.
Thank you for the facts I missed, that's very interesting. I googled her husband after I read your post to see if I could find out more, and found out she is the sister in law of another author Catherine Prasifka.
I read Normal People this month and am halfway into Intermezzo and thinking of dnf-ing it. I’m so bored with these flat, self obsessed, very sad people. Even the sex is sad but somehow great 😂 When you’re screaming in your head “let’s talk about chess moves”, as if that will liven things up, it may be time to pitch the novel into the fire. Rooney may just not be my cup of tea 🫖 . I’m glad so many enjoy her books though.
I read Normal People first and was largely unaware of the hype. What I liked was the exploration of class relations but overall, it read like a YA novel and made me groan a few times. When I realized the hype around it and that it was supposed to be targeted at my generation, I honestly did not "get it". I then read Conversations and Beautiful World, once that came out, already aware of the hype. Beautiful World was really not for me. Intermezzo is probably the one I like a bit more. I've met people like the characters she describes but that still somehow doesn't make me love her novels. And, I'd argue that that shouldn't be the case. Aren't the novels we read a window into worlds and minds we do not know (yet)? and isn't that the beauty of reading? The prose doesn't do it for me most of the time either. I do not negate that bare prose can be great. I read the English translation of a French-Korean author, Elisa Shua Dusapin's Winter in Sokcho, and the prose was bare and sort of staccato but so evocative at the same time, I actually went out and bought the French original to check out how it works in French. In Rooney's prose, I have never found anything that actually would move me in a profound way or make me admire the writing for its own sake.
I actually think this is the book where Rooney fills in the gaps and more fully inhabits and articulates the motivations of the characters. I agree with your comments about Ivan. I was frustrated by Ivan as I wanted him to be Autistic but I kept thinking Ivan would not have done/said that. Note that this is coming from an Autism parent, not as an Autistic person myself. Ivan cannot be pigeonholed and as you say, it really doesn't matter - he is who he is. I think Rooney divides people because reading her books can be deeply uncomfortable. Margaret's moralising and fence sitting definitely had me feeling this way. Of course, the other characters were also frustrating in their own ways. But this is life, and Rooney does so well to capture the messiness of life, and now the internal dialogue and minutiae of her character's lives too. At times I felt a bit bored by this book because it deals with the mundane, but I will read everything Rooney puts out.
I agree that she fills in the gaps more, I thought that was my own experience, due to me relating to the characters more, but I'm very happy to be wrong on that and say it's due to author growth. I like your theory about why Rooney divides people.
Ha ha, thats interesting! I can really, really relate to the character of ivan, in so many ways, and have often wondered whether i m autistic, but test says that very, very clearly i am not.
Intermezzo is probably my favorite Salley Rooney novel as well. So, we're in agreement on that. but my problem with her writing isn't that she underexplains her characters' motives, it's that she overexplains her characters' motives. Characters will often step out of her storylines and give very contrived and detailed philosophical speeches. This habit in her writing takes me out of her books more than anything else. In Beautiful World, Where Are You the character Felix has to do a lot of heavy lifting as he regurgitates a lot of Rooney's philosophy on socioeconomics and when he does the novel drags. The character Ivan delves into this area a bit in Intermezzo, but not too much and, much to Rooney's credit, seem like very plausible ideals that his character would have. He mainly wants to play chess after all and that don't pay the bills. But at that point in the novel, the worst had yet to come. I identified with the character Peter a lot and there were passages with him that the Rooney's prose just sang for me. I'm trying to keep this spoiler free, but it's hard not to feel betrayed by the Rooney when towards the end of the book (pp 427 -428) Peter tries to sort out his relationship dilemma by reducing it to a logic problem - with quotes form Wittgenstein even! Given the emotional state that Peter is in at that point with his grief and depression, this just comes off as ridiculous and contrived. This seems like a strategy more akin to what Ivan might contemplate, but even that would be a stretch. It took me completely out of the novel experience and had me putting down the book and looking toward the sky, shaking my fist and asking, 'Why Sally, why?'. Not to mention that whole segment undercuts Ivan's coda towards the end when he, the younger brother with very little relationship experience, gives an apt and heartfelt summation on Peter's dilemma. which illustrates beautifully Ivan's ability to change. The novel would be so much better without that page and a half. And it's Rooney's inability to not pontificate, to not trust her fictional prose, that gets me down on her work. I'm not in the 'hater' camp. She most definitely can write, but I always am apprehensive when I know she's releasing a book. Fortunately, (my criticisms aside) it's a good book, but I was really hoping for a great one.
I read Normal People and I didn't like it. It felt full of privileged self obsessed millenials who didn't seem to learn anything from their experiences. Perhaps I am just getting old and grumpy but it didn't work for me. Same with Exciting Times by Naoise Dolan. Having said that I did like A Lonely Girl is a Dangerous Thing by Jessie Tu because by the end of the book she had learned to value herself. Do you think Intermezzo would work better for me than the other Rooneys?
I think that Intermezzo would work better for you than Normal People, the actions made complete sense to me, in Normal People I did just accept them, thinking - okay you're that kind of person. While there is still some self sabotage it is I think much more relatable.
The book sounds like a Social trauma dumpster fire. Awful. Just how much poop can you throw at the mirror, before you can't see in it. I can see why people feel fed up with poop thrower misery.
This was my first Rooney book and I thought it was "ok". Their parents assigned roles to their children that the kids as adults had to fight to break free from. By keeping a bond of forgiveness between, the brothers were able to see a part of themselves in each other. Just an "ok" read for me.
i love how you mentioned that sally rooney's economic word choices is not only intentional but very effective at communicating emotion and intent to the reader. and how much trust she places in the reader to infer meaning from context, rather than spoon feeding it to them. i enjoyed intermezzo a lot as well and this was such a thorough review of both the book & discourse surrounding it - bravo!
Intermezzo is also my favourite Rooney book, I'm so happy seeing her branch out in themes and perspectives
Thanks for this. I thought Normal People went right over my head. What bothered me most was the characters didn’t make sense to me. Their actions didn’t match their thoughts/beliefs. I guess I just never understood how seriously we were supposed to take them. That said the characters in Intermezzo sound like people I have met more than the characters in Conversations.
For me it’s always the crazy level of hype around Rooney’s books that puts me off. I read Normal People but that’s before it all got mad. I guess also there’s nothing really that pulls me into the books based on the premises either. Maybe at some point I will try another one.
Great review as always Scott. Pleased you loved it. ❤
Thanks!
Thank you so much! :)
I just finished Intermezzo tonight and I loved it. Great review also. Very comprehensive. ❤
I enjoyed Intermezzo (it was my most anticipated book of 2024!), but it did not reach the highs of Beautiful World for me. Beautiful World became one of my favorite books, I think because I related so much to the characters at the time I read it. But I see that Intermezzo is her most mature and introspective, and I love watching her grow as a person & a writer with each novel.
Really interesting review and discussion, thank you. I'm sure I will read Intermezzo in a while, and based on reviews (including yours) it sounds like something I'd like.
I agree with a lot of what you say about being able to relate to characters, and how that can shape enjoyment of books like Rooney's. I've read her three previous novels, and liked some more than others (which seems pretty normal to me). My least favourite by far was Beautiful World. I remember thinking that the characters did not feel real to me at all - who were these pretentious people writing long letters about their lives to each other?
Anyway, I later discovered that two of my work friends write long, reflective emails to each other about their lives, things they've read/watched recently, and general musings. And I thought oh my god, they're like the main characters in Beautiful World. Forgive me, Sally 😂
Lovely review! I have not read any Rooney but you make me want to!
Thank you for this thoughtful review, Scott. I haven't read Sally Rooney yet, but I think that this will be my introduction to her work. The combination of your review and Dwight Garner's in The New York Times have made me think that this might be a good introduction to her for me.
Good Luck I hope you enjoy Intermezzo!
@@GunpowderFictionPlot I think I will!
Thank you, Scott!🌷I’ve only read Normal People, liked it (wasn’t particularly enthusiastic about it though) and actually wasn’t going to read Intermezzo. However, after listening to your great review, I think I will!
There's just something so inherently irish about Rooneys characters - many people find them unlikeable but irish culture genuinely is to just get on with things and not talk about anything 😂
Really interesting to see you explore popular works from different angles than your own!
I LOVE slice-of-life writing where nothing much happens, unlikeable but complex characters, complicated relationships, lack of plot. I really should love Rooney but I don't. I quite liked Normal People, the prose was understated, the character relationships felt realistic, but I didn't think it was that outstanding. I couldn't get into Conversations with Friends at all. It is way too 'show-don't-tell'; where are the actual impactful conversations with friends? I do not want to be told how smart a bunch of pretentious people are, though I did appreciate that the main character was Autistic-coded and had endometriosis. I haven't read Beautiful World. I've read my free sample of Intermezzo but don't feel drawn in enough to go on.
I have met plenty of people like her characters - but maybe you are onto something because I can't personally relate to them. I think the only character of hers I related to was Connell because we had a similar experience. My problem is that a lot of her characters are part of the intellectual elite or pretentious in some way and I feel she doesn't explore that in a way that makes them interesting to me personally. They just live in their 'Trinity College' bubble, a place where I will never belong. To me, a good author can make me care about absolutely anyone, no matter how different or unlikeable. I also found most of her prose simply boring, I found myself skimming a lot, but I would have to do a more thorough analysis to tell you why. Intermezzo seemed more interesting prose-wise. I love Claire Keegan's prose, by contrast. You make me think about why I like things!
I'm glad I get to complain and be picky, it just shows how many brilliant Irish authors there are to choose from. I'm just after reading Intimacies by Lucy Cadwell, fabulous explorations of motherhood and womanhood (but short stories so it might not be for you).
I’ve still not read any Sally Rooney. I need to know what side I would fall on in this debate 😂
As a previous viewer mentioned, Ive not read any of her books either, but now am compelled to read this one 📚🪱💚
I hope you do, good luck! :)
I finally understood why Intermezzo just didn’t work for me! You are completely right, if you cannot relate to Ivan and Peter you will not understand their decisions and the plot. This was exactly the cause for me. I liked the writing and the characters in themselves, but their choices made no sense to me. I felt really bad for rating this book low on Goodreads, because I realized it’s not a bad literary work but very dependent on hitting home in yourself. I think I’ll give this book another try in the future. You never know if you can relate in the future or not.
I've read all Rooney's books and enjoyed reading Intermezzo. Loved your review.
BTW she did do research on chess and credits the Irish Chess Union and particular individuals in the notes at the end. Apparently she doesn't play herself but her maths teacher husband took to playing online during the pandemic.
Thank you for the facts I missed, that's very interesting. I googled her husband after I read your post to see if I could find out more, and found out she is the sister in law of another author Catherine Prasifka.
I have the audiobook from my monthly kobo credit without knowing what it about, just “ah new Sally Rooney I like her writing” 😂
That's the same reason I picked her book up - she could write an encyclopaedia of dog poo and I would read it.
Sounds like a good book. Added to my TBR.
I read Normal People this month and am halfway into Intermezzo and thinking of dnf-ing it. I’m so bored with these flat, self obsessed, very sad people. Even the sex is sad but somehow great 😂 When you’re screaming in your head “let’s talk about chess moves”, as if that will liven things up, it may be time to pitch the novel into the fire. Rooney may just not be my cup of tea 🫖 . I’m glad so many enjoy her books though.
I read Normal People first and was largely unaware of the hype. What I liked was the exploration of class relations but overall, it read like a YA novel and made me groan a few times. When I realized the hype around it and that it was supposed to be targeted at my generation, I honestly did not "get it". I then read Conversations and Beautiful World, once that came out, already aware of the hype. Beautiful World was really not for me. Intermezzo is probably the one I like a bit more.
I've met people like the characters she describes but that still somehow doesn't make me love her novels. And, I'd argue that that shouldn't be the case. Aren't the novels we read a window into worlds and minds we do not know (yet)? and isn't that the beauty of reading?
The prose doesn't do it for me most of the time either. I do not negate that bare prose can be great. I read the English translation of a French-Korean author, Elisa Shua Dusapin's Winter in Sokcho, and the prose was bare and sort of staccato but so evocative at the same time, I actually went out and bought the French original to check out how it works in French. In Rooney's prose, I have never found anything that actually would move me in a profound way or make me admire the writing for its own sake.
excellent review......maybe the best you've ever done !
Wow - thank you so much. :)
ooh, wow, so many great points! you've given me a reason to read Rooney other than H-Y-P-E which usually drives me awayyyy, well done, Scott!
I hope you enjoy her work.
I actually think this is the book where Rooney fills in the gaps and more fully inhabits and articulates the motivations of the characters. I agree with your comments about Ivan. I was frustrated by Ivan as I wanted him to be Autistic but I kept thinking Ivan would not have done/said that. Note that this is coming from an Autism parent, not as an Autistic person myself. Ivan cannot be pigeonholed and as you say, it really doesn't matter - he is who he is.
I think Rooney divides people because reading her books can be deeply uncomfortable. Margaret's moralising and fence sitting definitely had me feeling this way. Of course, the other characters were also frustrating in their own ways. But this is life, and Rooney does so well to capture the messiness of life, and now the internal dialogue and minutiae of her character's lives too. At times I felt a bit bored by this book because it deals with the mundane, but I will read everything Rooney puts out.
I agree that she fills in the gaps more, I thought that was my own experience, due to me relating to the characters more, but I'm very happy to be wrong on that and say it's due to author growth.
I like your theory about why Rooney divides people.
Ha ha, thats interesting! I can really, really relate to the character of ivan, in so many ways, and have often wondered whether i m autistic, but test says that very, very clearly i am not.
Excellent review!
Intermezzo is probably my favorite Salley Rooney novel as well. So, we're in agreement on that. but my problem with her writing isn't that she underexplains her characters' motives, it's that she overexplains her characters' motives. Characters will often step out of her storylines and give very contrived and detailed philosophical speeches. This habit in her writing takes me out of her books more than anything else. In Beautiful World, Where Are You the character Felix has to do a lot of heavy lifting as he regurgitates a lot of Rooney's philosophy on socioeconomics and when he does the novel drags. The character Ivan delves into this area a bit in Intermezzo, but not too much and, much to Rooney's credit, seem like very plausible ideals that his character would have. He mainly wants to play chess after all and that don't pay the bills. But at that point in the novel, the worst had yet to come.
I identified with the character Peter a lot and there were passages with him that the Rooney's prose just sang for me. I'm trying to keep this spoiler free, but it's hard not to feel betrayed by the Rooney when towards the end of the book (pp 427 -428) Peter tries to sort out his relationship dilemma by reducing it to a logic problem - with quotes form Wittgenstein even! Given the emotional state that Peter is in at that point with his grief and depression, this just comes off as ridiculous and contrived. This seems like a strategy more akin to what Ivan might contemplate, but even that would be a stretch. It took me completely out of the novel experience and had me putting down the book and looking toward the sky, shaking my fist and asking, 'Why Sally, why?'. Not to mention that whole segment undercuts Ivan's coda towards the end when he, the younger brother with very little relationship experience, gives an apt and heartfelt summation on Peter's dilemma. which illustrates beautifully Ivan's ability to change. The novel would be so much better without that page and a half. And it's Rooney's inability to not pontificate, to not trust her fictional prose, that gets me down on her work. I'm not in the 'hater' camp. She most definitely can write, but I always am apprehensive when I know she's releasing a book. Fortunately, (my criticisms aside) it's a good book, but I was really hoping for a great one.
I read Normal People and I didn't like it. It felt full of privileged self obsessed millenials who didn't seem to learn anything from their experiences. Perhaps I am just getting old and grumpy but it didn't work for me. Same with Exciting Times by Naoise Dolan. Having said that I did like A Lonely Girl is a Dangerous Thing by Jessie Tu because by the end of the book she had learned to value herself. Do you think Intermezzo would work better for me than the other Rooneys?
I think that Intermezzo would work better for you than Normal People, the actions made complete sense to me, in Normal People I did just accept them, thinking - okay you're that kind of person. While there is still some self sabotage it is I think much more relatable.
The book sounds like a Social trauma dumpster fire. Awful. Just how much poop can you throw at the mirror, before you can't see in it. I can see why people feel fed up with poop thrower misery.
I’m halfway through Intermezzo and can’t disagree…
This was my first Rooney book and I thought it was "ok". Their parents assigned roles to their children that the kids as adults had to fight to break free from. By keeping a bond of forgiveness between, the brothers were able to see a part of themselves in each other. Just an "ok" read for me.