The Limits of Human Scale (Fascinating) Interview with Geoffrey West
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- --Geoffrey West, theoretical physicist and professor at the Sante Fe Institute, joins David to discuss his book Scale: The Universal Laws of Growth, Innovation, Sustainability, and the Pace of Life in Organisms, Cities, Economies, and Companies. Get the book: amzn.to/30L0Ytg
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Broadcast on November 18, 2021
#davidpakmanshow #scale #geoffreywest
I'm a big fan all of your political content for sure, but I would LOVE to see more stuff like this too. This is fascinating! Either way, keep it up! 👍
Trump kinda took over for a minute. now that things are more close to sanity, we should get more of this. David is a fantastic entertainer/ journalist.
one of the best non political videos David has done
So interesting. Loved it
Great interview, David! Often deep thinkers appease journalists with trite pat answers. That didn't happen here because Professor West understood that you were capable of following his thoughts. Well done. I'm certainly looking forward to delving into his book. He sounds like a person who has spent his years on the planet very well.
More of this, please.
We already know more than we ever wanted to know about Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert. Let's hear from people who actually have something useful to add to the human experience.
David, you have excellent interviewing skills. It seems you put yourself in the chair of the listener and know when statements need further clarification.
I'm surprised to see Geoffrey West here, some moments of relief from politics
This was a terrific interview. More please.
I would listen to a science podcast with David for hours.
A really interesting interview David! - as an ex-Biologist I did find it fascinating but as an Australian who is also somewhat obsessed by the politics of the US Failing State and The World's Sixth (the Last for humans) Mass Exinction, I also really appreciate the "non-political" interviews that you do - good work!
G'day Phil :-)
@@Fomites Pete! You meet the nicest people online . .
@@PhilipRhoadesP G'day from the U.K, Phil!
Could you expand a little on 'The World's Sixth Mass Extinction' for me please?
Oh, and like you, I too am obsessed with the disgraceful circus that is American politics :-(
Thanks mate :-)
@@leonchevalier There is lots of stuff available but probably the best summary that alligns with my thinking is Guy McPherson's site - eg Game Over for Climate Change th-cam.com/video/uLg9keP40s4/w-d-xo.html
Fascinating. What an elegant speaker.
Really cool interview, thanks Prof. West!
Can you imagine Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, Alex Jones or any of those types conducting this interview?
I think their viewers would tune out because it doesn't involve issues of fear and hate of the scary "others"
Fascinating interview! Thanks for this great conversation David.
Nice to see gandalf the grey on the show. Good catch
LOL!
Super linear scaling is all around us and very apparent. We used to call it “density”. (See George Carlin on euphemisms) Whether it is cultural, musical, educational or businesses the list goes on. The more tightly packed the endeavour, more breeds more. Great cultural centres in Europe; Italy and France (mathematics), art in Paris, and Spain. Businesses thriving around a single steel mill. Art colonies and collectives in Taos. It’s why and how people have gone as far as we have. Agriculture, fishing, forestry; the denser the grouping the greater the efficiencies.
There is a great study of mammalian vasculature, I think UC Davis did it. 20 species from mice to horse were injected with latex and the bodies of the animals were carefully flensed so that all the blood vessels could be carefully measured. There's an almost mathematical linear ratio that runs through all these species, definitely suggesting that scale exists.
love this, great interview and choice of guest
The 'fee simple' system of private land ownership for agriculture should probably end. We need vastly more shared communal spaces for growing food. This way we reduce food miles and more people start to be connected with the food they eat and we will require less fertiliser because the less intensively tilled land will be better cared for. May sound radical but do we really think that food shocks, even in the global north, aren't going to happen in the near future?
And I would add that people would then potentially work more closely together rather than have petty differences.
How about ensuring that we procreate less and reduce the human population in the biosphere??? Not saying it's that simple to do, but the idea is crucial.
@@traumaturgist Couldn't agree more. I have been an advocate of ZPG for several years!
Thank you! Great interview, so glad I watched. I learned something new today and also got to listen to a fascinating physicist and professor on a topic I wouldn't even have thought about until now. Thank you.
impressive. glad i listened.
Fascinating is definitely the word for this information!
I've seen, learned, and done a lot of cool and interesting things in my life.
This is mind-blowing! Not a term I use frequently.... Can't remember the last time I used that term.
Will be ordering a copy of Mr West's book.
I think interviews like this one are truly inspiring, contrary to American politics that constantly get nastier and filthier, because of the radicalizing right-wing politicians and their uncritical supporters.
David, with your mind, content like this is wonderful....we rely on you for the politics, but this is the BEST kind of content. You have the chance to expose so many people to critical thinking and big ideas. Thanks so much (wish I had the $$ to send you, and will, if some windfall comes my way). Wondering how all this related to dinosaurs?
Great interview between 2 interesting minds.
I hate how this type of content doesn't get the views it deserves
David a master interviewer
Most enjoyable, the subject matter is important as to the minuscia of the components of the greater "scale" of things. Other than the physical perrameters the environmental need to be addressed and added to his formula as to human and other organisms lifespan.
Just a thought for your brain to chew on.
I love this stuff.
As with everything there is always an exception. I am glad David brought up the impact of infant mortality on lifespan, using those numbers and not include that as a factor to show how our lifespan has increased is flawed. It is a huge flaw in his scaling theory. Also larger does not necessarily equate to more efficient and longevity, look at exceptionally large people or larger examples within a species, like large dogs do not live as long as smaller dogs and heartbeats do not correlate in that scenario. Also if you become a couch potato you are not going to increase your lifespan. Humans have long looked for patterns as part of our evolution and that can lead to errors in thinking, just look at the Q-anon people, the patterns they see are just phantoms of their psyche. But we do need to try to try to short circuit those pesky unintended consequences. All and all he has some good points but I feel he is seeing those evolutionary phantoms in the patterns that he then uses his sharp and curious brain to find mathematical proof to support. You should try to disprove the theory not only seek out supports for it.
im not fat, im just more efficient XD @4:19
23:25 great question
I almost didn't watch this but I'm so glad I did because it was very interesting. I watched until the end. Maybe I didn't get what it was all about but isn't the reason we live longer now is because of medicine and cures of disease's? Geoffrey did make a good point that years ago the reason we live longer is because of clean water but after that was introduced would it be medicine?
Interesting stuff! The Scholar has a really rich-sounding voice, kinda like the late Christopher Lee or Sir Ian McKellan.
Substance-wise, a lot of what's said is too speculative for my taste, but...I guess that's why it's called Theoretical Science, in this case.
David should consider to give up on (human or alien creature) written captions since their continuous lack of accuracy in front of autoCC is only giving his channel a bad look and might disappoint many people. From now on, i'm gonna refer to David as "Speaker 1" in my upcoming comments until this way too old and silly caption situation will be resolved.
It's quite weird Geoffrey West is kinda confirming DJT "finite energy" theorem about the reason he doesn't exercise except golf when he's talking about 125 years couch potato.
So real living has a time limit. You can increase the time span by not really living but what is the point. The yearning for increased longevity is a mental condition related to control and dominance
David…. I really enjoy your show, but there is a major,major topic that underlies all of our modern problems and that is that our world population is doubling every 35 to 40 years and no one talks or even seemingly thinks about it .Dr.Paul Ehrlich in his book in the late 60’s gave us a clue as to what is to come.see if you can get a copy of it….. it will blow your mind.
Howard Cross
First of all, this is hilarious. Secondly Milo is a troll. Always was a troll and always will be a troll. I thought Milo was funny before because I didn’t take him seriously. He’s funny now and I don’t take them seriously now either. I’ll give Milo a little credit. He Is smart enough and has enough self-awareness to know what this looks like. He knows it’s funny.
I will reach out to Geoffrey West because the sub-linear relationship in biology seems (I stress 'seems' as I am no expert!) intuitively either wrong or misleading -- bigger organisms / animals require less resource per pound but is that per day?
Because over its lifetime, I'd venture a cow requires more than the straight factor of weight than, say, a chicken. So it's sub-linear in a given time period (say a day, or a year) but probably super-linear over a lifetime. This would explain why the environmental footprint of a pound of beef is way more than that of a pound of chicken. If I'm right, then the relationship is sub-linear in terms of ratio, but super-linear in absolute terms.
If the relationship was purely sub-linear, then there would be no environmental incentive to explore insects as a potential source of protein.
Oh, and this idea would explain why over a lifetime, a mouse and elephant have about the same number of heartbeat (the elephant has a longer life but slower heartbeat).
Ancient records across various civilizations do record much longer lifespans for early humans. Somesuch are obvious exaggerations, given the literary context ie assigning tens of thousands of years to legendary heroic figures, but others have no such embellishments and descriptions of unusually long lifespans seem more of a casual and straightforward description of history.
Rather than just cast all such aside, I think it more interesting to ponder they Why and How people in the pre-recorded past may have lived much longer than most humans since. What factors would have to be different in the makeup of humans for that? And could this explain why certain megalithic, complex structures like the pyramids suddenly ceased after a point in favour of far more modest architectural feats?
How, precisely, was Roman engineering "modest" compared to the pyramids?
1) Closed captions stop working on the half way through the video.
2) I did not get a notification of this video. (There is long list of videos of yours which don't generate notifications, but you produce so many videos, that I don't mind missing some portion of notifications... I just wonder if it is something you can control, or is it yet again feature of "the algorithm". Maybe you produce too much videos for its liking?)
Book called “Population Bomb” by Dr.Paul Ehrlich
Then why do big dogs live shorter than small dogs or cats?
Kinda looks like this could be David’s grandpa
If the bigger you are - the longer you live is true across species, why is it not true within species? Like dogs for example. Small dogs live longer than large dogs. And people too. Shorter, smaller people tend to live longer than taller, larger people.
You never have any black interview guests… why don’t you have Tim black on to talk about police brutality 🔥🔥🔥
Well I found one problem with a subliminar definition if you look at the lifespan of a horse and your shetland pony which is much smaller than the horse the shetland pony is going to outlive the horse every time ponies live a lot longer than horses do and they're a lot smaller but according to the sublinear scale, that should not be the case.
There are small animals that far outlive bigger animals.
@Carrie Peterson - you forgot one thing: Stubbornness of ponies is legendary. Too cranky to die.
@@jamesblatchford3738 I think you are on to something, a strong will and determination.
How about bats? His lifespan views are long outdated, I fear. Stochastic mortality risk (eg predation pressure) might come closer...
20:00 who wants to live that long....
shorter humans live longer than taller humans why ?
Noam chomsky under study looking guy.
Average age of death for prehistoric peoples, was not 30 or 40 years. I don't know where this BS came from, but it is pervasive. There is no reason to believe that people were living well into their eighties and nineties. All you had to do was survive childhood. There was plenty to eat, and big predators were afraid of us.
Where it comes from? How about the “fossil” records? Age is not too difficult to determine.
I'm curious to know where you got your information from, or is that just a personal hunch?
so do mammals have a battery life like the great dim don trump theorized?
That’s what she said.😳😉
Terrible audio.
So does this guy think like trump that if you work out and your heart rate increases you have less time on Earth? Sounds like a total crackpot to me
first, define what a numerically distinct idea is, HOW they form, and present evidence to why the rate they form is correlated with population size before applying the scale-of-biology metaphor. This is sloppy social science
#KyleisWanted
Go Kyle - a hero!! Woop woop!! Brilliant, best news ever!! He's not guilty of killing those pricks.
Best news is, next time the proud boys do a shield wall charge, they'll be cut down with rifles. Self defense, ggnore
I agree with the jury's verdict but there is nothing to celebrate here. 2 people are dead. Kyle is not a hero. He's a young man who got in over his head and was lucky enough to have the means to get out.
Where has America come to? This comment is so shameful. No wonder Americans are despised by so many people worldwide.
And by the way, why did you post this comment here where it has absolutely no place?
@@traceyboyer8839 And he has to live with the fact that he killed two people for the rest of his life. I wonder how long it will be before we hear about him in the news again? And not in a good way.
@@falconquest2068 I honestly, and this is just my opinion, but I honestly don't think he'll get in trouble again. I think he learned a very important lesson and if we hear about him again I pray that it's because he has done something we will remember as something good. He's been given a 2nd chance that a lot of young men would not have received, I hope he thinks twice before he ever heads out the door with an assault rifle again.