Introducing the 'fluid piano'
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2009
- Mark Brown talks to Geoff Smith, whose reinvention of the piano allows players to alter the tuning of notes either before or during a performance
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was expecting it to sound like a piano... sounds more like a harpsichord or something
+Brian Bernstein There's an instrument called Hammered Dulcimer, which sounds exactly like this.
+Brian Bernstein Sounds a lot like a fortepiano from the 18th century. It looks like it has a wooden soundboard, which would probably contribute to that tone.
+Brian Bernstein This a tangent piano with low tension strings that gives a dulcimer/harpsichord like sound.
+fnersch maybe more like "Hammerklavier" 1800
sounds more like a sitar
I hate tuning my violin, and that has four strings. I couldn't imagine tuning 88 strings. Like no.
A piano has 88 keys. For each key there are 3 strings, except for the really low bass ones, which have 2 strings!
Vipsces Except in certain cases.
Vipsces
So somewhere around 250 strings?
No no no! With a piano, you're supposed to pay *someone else* to tune it! XD
Yeah - I would think it's a double-edged sword. It makes for a very versatile instrument, but at the same time, you probably need a lot more preparation time to get the thing ready, especially if you dabble in multiple alternate tunings. I wonder if they could do some kind of 'preset' mode, where it locks all the keys at once into a set tuning, so you don't have to adjust them one at a time.
The piano must be a nightmare to maintain.
+lomparti She specifically said it was quite robust. Remember?
indeed, that's what she said. lol
Nothing is as nightmarish as a harpsichord. Trust me. My friend says that you just look at them wrong and they get out of tune.
As a harpsichordist myself, can confirm. Depends on the quality of the instrument, though.
Why would it be a nightmare to maintain? It's never in tune so it can never get out of tune.
at last we can satisfy the west's notorious thirst for classical pakistani keyboard music
i lel'd
Heyden Reay i rofl'd
Cameron Starke Really? You actually physically rolled around on the ground laughing because of that comment?
yes, as opposed to mentally or metaphysically
Norrin Radd Yup
tchewning
nicholas72611 lol Nailed it! Acyoustic tchewning
jewning
better than acoostic tooning lol
idear
nicholas72611 Found the american.
sounds like a sitar
It's because of the micotonal tuning that many asian classical instruments have e.g. the sitar
More like a santoor
Not the best demo, but interesting. Here's what I mean. Imagine if someone can to you and said,"Check out this great guitar". Then all then did was just hit a string and turn the tuners. What would you think? You'd probably ask them when they were going to actually play it and show you great it is. You also wouldn't just strum the open strings.
All you have to do is show how it can be tuned, that just takes 4 seconds, now play some beautiful music. Lots of great eastern music out there. Let the music do the talking. That works for any type of music demo.
Why not use foot-operated pedals (akin to the thingy some organs have to control dynamics) to adjust the intonation on the fly, a la an electric guitar's tremolo bar? Obviously these pedals wouldn't change the string tension, but just having a way to move those stops with another limb opens up the instrument so much.
It's kind of difficult to play something technically invigorating when you have to stand up and reach over your score to hand-bend each pitch.
The mock harp is a nice touch, though. I imagine the sympathetic resonance it gives off sounds absolutely lovely. Pity that kind of stuff is too quiet for a mic to pick up.
I'd love to get my hand on this as a composer and, with some guidance be able to improvise on an instrument I'm comfortable with already without having to begin again on another instrument.
That's what I thought at first but for a guitar analogy this would be closer to adjustable frets than to a whammy bar.
> Pity that kind of stuff is too quiet for a mic to pick up.
You could probably use piezo pickups
youtube comments section is a nightmare
Having said that, I think I've seen much worse than this thread ! :)
+MattysEdits: true enough, but it's not like you're at all helping.
'Ow Machewer.
MattysEdits then why are you reading it?
Agree with you
I wish it had a fuller sound. Fluid tuning with an actual piano timbre. It sounds more like a hammered dulcimer; I love hammered dulcimer, don't get me wrong. And I'd love to hear some more Balkan type music played with this instrument.
Same here. I think he has a brilliant idea, but the instrument isn't quite there yet. There needs to be a mechanism to change multiple strings at once, or a way to return to a specific tuning precisely. The dulcimer timbre makes it not quite a piano too.
Lorraine Cheong
i can guarantee that when it would be quite there where you want it to be than even if you'd sell the whole self on organs you could not afford it.
And for obvious reasons i'm sure it's more like early pianos because it doesn't have the metal cast frame - less tension less loudness less modern piano sound. This piano weight is only ~200kg.
I know an old comment, but I agree. Also, when it comes to changing tunings, I agree with Ragamala Rokudan. There are just so many strings to tune that it takes a lot of time to get from one tuning to another. Maybe an electronic tuning mechanism would work better? I mean, you could have some tuning presets that you could change with the touch of a button. I don't think that would even be that difficult to do with today's technology.
Pitch bend with a harpsichord patch
Haha, yeah!
Happy New Year!
this instrument probably isnt used to get the ''pitch bend'' effect that the woman was doing ,,, it is probably used to tune the piano microtonally in order to get a wider range of playing
This is a truly amazing invention - a piano that is finally freed from the restrictions of 'fixed' western tuning. About time too. Hats off to the inventor for having the vision to realise this and make it available to those who want it.
sounds like a dulcimer , I like that sound!
I love it!! It's a weird hybrid of several early keyboard and stringed instruments.
This is an invention I always dreamt about: Floyd rose on a piano! :D However, it doesn't really sound like a piano. :/
Sounds very much like a hammered dulcimer. Can't say I would get much use out of the sliders, but the overall sound is delicate and nice.
the sliders are meant not to get a "pitch bend"y sound, but instead to allow the piano to go outside of standard western tuning systems, which i think is very very useful
whoa, this is very haunting and beautiful in tone, I love it!
I would buy one of these.
it's very satisfying to have a well tightened key and the rigidness as you press on the keys
Very cool!
Could someone possibly make it diatonically tuned i.e. like the harp? E.g. if ones tunes the E slightly flat, it will affect all octaves.
That is definitely possible.
Unrelated but... is that a cursed Shostakovich in your profile picture
"I discussed with, hmm, with the instrument maker…"
Not even a name? How hard is it to give credit to the actual maker who made this silly idea possible?
Nice work!
THIS is what I want for Christmas next year!
I love how he manages to throw in ‘conservatism’ and ‘predjudice’ whilst talking about this
thanks Geoff Smith, this instrument has been missing... this opens so many doors to new experimentation, new music, as well as to established music, Hindustani or Karnatic, which has been impossible on the old fixed and tempered piano. Can't wait to hear what will be played on it! If only Bach had had one of these things??? What would he have written on it?? The Well-Untempered Klavier!!!!
Brilliant, and long overdue! Kudos to you.
That is really cool!
"That goddamn piano and organ are ruining music!" Had Edgard Varese seen this instrument, he may have eaten those words.
I'm waiting to here a maqam on this piano
Sounds really really good!
is it possible to tune this such that just pressing each key in succession would play a piece (ie. Pachelbel's canon)?
what an amazing concept, so much hard work put into this invention
Why do people speak badly about the western tuning?
hdmat101 They haven't heard it before too often, and at first the new intervals sound just out of tune. It takes some getting used to.
King Alistair of Ferelden he means western
hdmat101 nobody is talking badly about westen tuning,it is just that there are so many others alternatives to create music,every day a new galaxy is dicovered.
So how do you tune it
Absolutely stunning. Very beautiful.
but will it blend?
Spoder Man You would need a big blender, but by now, you have had 2 years to build it.
Finally a beautiful keyboard perfectly suitable for Indian Classical music! And it's a fully acoustic instrument!!!
.
.waiting for a genius composer now
great idea
This is a wonderful attempt and important for those of us that are involved with and interested in retuning (acoustic) keyboards to scales other than the standardized well-tempered. Thank you very much for posting.
I love the sound of Eastern music, but hearing a piano do this makes me kind of uncomfortable. And that's why it's so awesome.
THIS IS TO: 1) People claiming western music has no microtonal music
2) Or worse, people calling out of tune stuff "shit" (fucking ignorant!)
EDUCATE YOURSELVES!!! Look up "Guthrie Govan String Bending Masterclass - Part One" Go to 1:55 to 2:30.
Freljil Hungi The claim isn't that Western music has no microtones, it's that traditional Western music theory does not account for microtones and most Westerners hear intervals smaller than a semitone as out of tune (just read the comments on this video for proof). And a guitarist slightly bending a string isn't a good example of microtones being used in Western music; sure it's a microtonal interval technically, but there's organized thought or system behind its use. A better example of microtones in Western music would be Charles Ives' Quarter Tone Pieces for Piano or nearly any Alois Hába or Ben Johnston piece.
now you can play the early western tuning, with flats that sound other than sharps. AWESOME
Nicely done! wow...!
fucking awesome. dude! build me one... pretty please? :)
It's a question of cost, I suppose! No-one works for free, do they?
It sounds more like a cimbalom than a piano.
This is so cool. You can play with it so easily without worsening the pianos condition by rotating the pins so much
One of the most interesting things about it isn't that it's "multicultural", but that it can be tuned to just intonation, if so desired. Or Meantone temperament. It could actually make our western music sound more in tune. Very interesting, I just wish it sounded more like a normal piano.
"Acyustic"? "Piyayno"? Are yoi farkeen kid'n mayh?
god damn it hahahahaha
gnamp rofllllllllllllllllll
gnamp comment of the year award!
gnamp
Do British accents annoy Americans? I'm curious.
ImGonnaShout2000 Don't ask me, I'm English.
That sounds amazing. Not very much like a traditional piano in tone, but it's still really nice.
That's so cool. Can't wait for it to be mass produced.
Very cool. Still shackled to the oversize modern key width of 6.5" octave, though?
>difficult to deal with conservatism, cultural prejudice
It's a musical instrument, give the 3rd-worldism a rest.
ok rightist
tune back to 432HZ easily!!! yes! right? you can do that i guess...
You can do that with a regular piano too.
TheSkipjack95 do you know how to do it on a digital piano? i have one and searched a lot on the internet but i dont seem to find an answer...
dunno, I don't think it's a standard function on keyboards. Or maybe on high-end stuff. Anyway, it's not that special, it's just a lower tuning. Ask any guitar player.
TheSkipjack95 hmm ok thanks :)
after you recorded something, you can detune the whole thing -0.31 of a note, you will than have instead of 440hz, your track, in 432hz
THATS SO COOL
I would love to play that!
He talks of "Rigid" western music & it's tuning & yet all Indian music sounds the same!! Every time you hear it... it sounds just like it did hundreds of years ago! Sitar, Feral Percussion, & singing that meanders constantly like a starving cat waking the street up at 5am!! Steeped in tradition.
And musicians who don't have a grudge against the intervention of technology have managed to tamper with the tuning of a piano for years now. It's nothing new. This just looks like a 7 year old who's found the pitch bender wheel.
Yeah... you know what? I won' t pay for that.
Imagine dumping gallons of thick clam chowder into a beautiful, brand new Steinway piano. Just filling it right up.
Hello please could you help.I think i misheard something back when learning theory that the piano has 3 strings per note,but they are all tune differently.Like first sting fundamental C and the other 2 to its overtones.Is this wrong,is it just a case of 3 string are hit say when pressing C and they are all tuned to C.Just more stings produce volume.My question relates to a standard piano.
I skimmed through the video and I felt like its just a piano with a pitch bending feature or a fine tuner like a floyd rose. IDRK.
Musical experimentation is no threat to humankind. Get yourself in a psych ward.
Yeah! Awesome!
what song was she playing in the begining
32 people are clearly outta tuned with this awesomeness @_@
Of course!
this has got to be the most important musical advancement of the 21st century
I'll try one!
This is really cool... I would love to see more music played on this :P
This sounds horrible. I'll keep my "puny western tuning".
it sounds horrible to people who are only used to western (or more accurately, 18th century european) tuning systems
Absolutely dreadful. Something you'd expect coming from The Guardian.
ok
Terrific! Could you do the same for the two-row accordion, please!
I can hear the notes we leave out in scales too. The mini changes and adjustments that can ride on top of their similar parent.
Really cool instrument, awesome possibilities, but I couldn't stop myself from thinking "how did this lady not think to wash her hair before being in a film?"
i think that's just how her hair works tbh, sometimes hair is like that
Institutions, conservatism, cultural prejudice...
Jeez, forget the piano, just say its political and you don't like the west already.
Very cool
The sound one achieves from tuning two notes just a few cents apart is very often used in accordions and other free-reed instruments. The ever-so-slight difference between the two notes gives a wonderful chorus/vibrato sound that accordion players call "musette" tuning. I've put a bit of thought into tuning a piano in this fashion and wonder if anyone has ever tried it, as opposed to just playing an out-of-tune piano. If done correctly, I imagine ragtime and blues parts would sound wonderful!
For adjustment on the fly in relatively rapid pieces, you might want some mechanism for coordinated movement of the sliders for each pitch class actuated from a lever or (maybe better yet) foot pedal.
I totally love all people of the Earth...
but, I have a cultural prejudice against out of tune shit.
Learner-Learns which tuning systems? 12-TET or Just?
Learner-Learns Microtonal, my friend. Played correctly, it provides a perfect amount of tiny dissonance that catches your attention and is unlike the rigid structure of Western tuning.
Learner-Learns Then do you hate blues too?
***** Blues music isn't out of tune. Blues scale uses 6 of the 12 notes in the western scales that can be found on a piano. For example, a C blues scale consists of C, D#, F, F#, G, and Bb. All of these notes are found on the piano and are part of western major and minor scales. Western scales say that there are only 12 different notes, but what Learner-Learns is talking about is notes that are between our western 12 notes. That is what he/she means by "out-of-tune" notes, by comparison to our fixed 12 notes.
***** www.8notes.com/piano_scales/c_blues.asp
There is nothing microtonal about the blues.
this is a joke of a instrument, only professional musicians can play this thing, thus it's not gonna be popular cous an average person is useless on it
The demonstration is even more rediculous. she plays it as a type of rythemic mono string instrument. the piano kind of loses its point when you play it like that.
Tomer Iserovitch so what? It just means more possibilities and variations in dynamics and tone are at the disposal of a single (or multiple) players. Hawklord is right, it's never goign to be as popular is the normal piano, but why does that make it a joke? Is the harp more of a joke than a piano because it's less popular?
so then increase the bar for what is "average"? it's far too easy to spit your dummy out when something is new or difficult!
I totally agree with you. It is something a few keyboard players might like to fiddle with for a while. Other than that it isn't going to be a popular I strument. I have been a oia ist professionally for 35 years and have seen many creations come and go.
@@TomerValve right you are
This piano is for Harry Partch ! It's nice
what a masterpiece. beautiful instrument. I want one!
So by allowing the use of micro tones you can practically be able to make everything sound like shit?
That's neat!
+D. Sloot No.
you clearly don't get the point of microtones
I hate this.
Why?
MusicMajorMaestro who tunes a piano????
TheFatbip I agree with Mozart on this
of course your pfp is mozart
Wow! Pretty darn cool!
Where do I get one?😁
Really? So how are you gonna change the tune on one string while playing? Lol!
I'd Prefer to buy The Seaboard- The future of the piano!
Guys i suggest you should take a look at it. You can do Vibrato and it's MIDI!
Let me know how cool your Seaboard is when you have no electricity/synth to hook it up to. Because hey, it's MIDI!
I don't think detuning while playing is the primary intention, although that is possible as she showed in the video. That Seaboard thing is pretty cool though. Looks like a lot of fun.
The Seaboard looks physically painful compared to an actual keyboard though.
it is routinely done on mideast strings.
Being a guardian video, they just had to sneak "Cultural prejudice" in there, didn't they!
It's a piano!, stop making everything POLITICAL...oh wait, just seen this is from 2009, well, you were knee deep in this narrative back then weren't you guardian. It's either that, or everyone who has had a hard time in life plays victim for the emotional goodies which proceed it. Don't worry guardian, it was totally placated by YOU! I don't blame him, you were the ones making it fashionable to become a victim.
Also I get another hint of your social manipulating narrative "Western music bad, eastern music great" No wonder the country is in the mess it is! Disgusting news outlet.
i like it ok, but could you build a piano that plays guitar strings that when played on the keyboard sounded very much like someone playing an acoustic guitar? with vibrato ability too
He's basically just saying that it has microtonal sound instead of the limited western tuning, in alot of words that is. I personally LOVE microtonal instruments.
He lost me at the racism bullshit
there was racism in this? what was racist?
If you watch the video, the creator is talking about having to deal with racism to get this thing off the ground.
Remember, if you are not ready to march out and remove every regular piano with one of these things... you are a racist.
Haha, this guy trying to explain why he's not rich. Conservatism, anti culture... What ever man. All you have there is a piano designed to easily fall out of tune and your white guilt neither makes this good nor Does it explain why you can't monetize it.
How do you write music notation for this thing? (0-0)
+funnyguy2019 You wouldn't unless you also included the tuner setting in the manuscript, and then the player would have to change their patterns to accommodate the piece of music.
But don't worry, I am pretty sure they have an answer for this, along the lines of "Western setting are oppressive"
Screams absolute agenda driven narrative to me, on a video which was supposed to be about a new piano.
@@BunWackettBuzzard it's the truth though. do a little bit of research on music history and you'll find that 18th century european/white musicians pretty much always prevailed because music theorists and critics would only pay attention to those kinds of people, and that spread to the west fairly quickly.
A beautiful instrument.
I love this song. It's called "Pile of Shit," right?
+bromixsr Song? What song? Fucking idiot.
+TheComet Are you? There is no fucking song in this video
+TheComet Song = sing.
+bromixsr Yeah, you are a pile of shit!
Bandolon87 it's called a piece of music you degenerate imbecile
Is there any specific notation for this keyboard instrument?
probably microtonal notation of some form
That "pln must be fascinating to play, I would love to expermiment it. Great instrument with great possibilittys
Tuning sliders also allows pitch bending and vibrato on this type of piano.
I want one!
but in high end pianos, tuning isnt fixed, is it?
WOW Very neat!
where can u buy these?