Breeding Ball Pythons; A bit more about Desert Ghost
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2024
- Now the dust has settled and the initial hype is over, it appears that Desert Ghost is actually a simple Mendelian Recessive like any other. The claim of "polygenic" turns out to be perhaps premature, or is it?
I believe most of our morphs are actually influenced by other "unknown" genes in their genetic sequencing that make them look better in some cases, so they are all to an extent polygenic. I'll show some examples of what this might look like and why genetic testing isn't the answer, at least until we get much better at it!
Here's a look at where we appear to be now in this DG genetic analysis.
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Fascinating what genetic testing can tell.
Hi mate. Yes, genetic testing can do lots of things and genetics fundamentally follows quite simple principles. However, multiply "simple" by a gazillion times and the permutations possible get extremely complex. Genetics doesn't have all the answers for humans yet and Ball Python genetics is still very new. For me "polygenic" simply has to be the normal condition and simple Mendelian genetics just helps us get our heads around the concepts. But for now, I think what we do know just helps to underline how far we have yet to go.
I get it now, quality in, quality out. Please, never stop because your channel is a pure gem!!!
The DG stuff did need an update. I think everyone wants a snake that holds its colour and brightness into maturity. DG isn't the only way.
Rob, I feel like you were a professor before you did this. You break things down very clearly. I greatly appreciate it sir
Hi Erik. Well I can't say I missed my vocation, I just put it to a more lucrative use in the oil industry. I could have remained in academia and could actually still go back, but instead I got into Ball Pythons and hopefully through this channel I can help to explain some of the complexities in a more easily understood way.
There is a popular quote often attributed to Einstein, although I'm not sure he actually said it. “If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
I think there is another scenario to this picture that accepts that we can all still learn. I'm actually explaining it to myself, so I can make sense of it myself.
Well that finally simplified the whole DG information for me. When this information first came out, it went straight over my head.. but now I feel better about it.
Hi mate. I doubt it went over your head brother, but it was unnecessarily complex initially. The picture is now much clearer and DG takes its place alongside any other recessive morph. In a way I'm disappointed because its almost inevitable that all our morphs are influenced by polygenic conditions and I'm sue with time we'll find these and catalogue them.
Given the response from the industry/hobby when this was first announced and the panic it created, I can't help but feel those that try to understand this stuff have an advantage. Unfortunately, marketing sells this "advantage" as a solution that we just need to pay for, and it never was that and never will be.
Another great video. Thank you Rob!
Great advice.
Hi Barbara. I don't mean to dismiss or disregard shed testing and genetic research. I am a scientist and love this stuff. But I sometimes feel that its both overrated and overmarketed, especially at the current level of knowledge.
Please read my responses to other comments here. I'm sure you do anyway, but it's important to me as a scientist that genetic testing is put into its proper perspective. We don't have it here (yet) and I don't really feel handicapped because of that. I'm also therefore not subject to the sometimes very transparent marketing strategies being employed with regard to genetic testing. In time it will take it's proper place as just another tool in our tool box.
I would say as of today, if it's not going to change a potential pairing you might make and/or a potential purchase, it's not worth the cost. If it reduces risk and/or increases value of a potential clutch, then it's adding value to a project and a business. I know people are doing it with pets, for instance, because they simply want to know, but I'm not sure how that changes anything. Will we enjoy a snake "more" or enjoy a snake "less" as a result of testing. Hopefully the marketing people have not gotten to us to that degree yet!
Excellent! Very clear explanation
We needed this!
Great video Rob great information and awesome snakes 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Hi Patrick. It's actually all about the snakes for me. They are the stars.
This is very informative! A big help for DG lover like me.
Hi mate. After all the fuss about DG being polygenic, the story becomes much clearer. Hope this both simplifies the picture and was helpful.
I think with increasing knowledge from shed testing, we'll find many of our favourite morphs are effected by (but not controlled by) a suit of other genes which influence what we call "quality" or the expression of how a particular individual shows off the visual traits we associate with a particular morph.
The principle of "quality in, quality out" is based on very sound genetic principles and will always be the best approach.
Thanks for clearing things up
Hi mate. Genetics is actually quite simple but with 18 pairs of chromosomes in a Ball Python and a gazillion different genes that control a plethora of functions and attributes, the possible permutations are scarily numerous. As a scientist, its not so much what we know, its the amount we have yet to discover that becomes more obvious. New discoveries will "clarify" the situation as we go. This is just a snapshot in time.
Great clarification on a confusing topic. Thanks
Hi mate. This was never really confusing. Only the scientists and especially the marketing people made it confusing. Clearly there is money to be made in a confusing situation that people are told only genetic testing can resolve. This is false. I am a scientist and I love to geek out on this stuff. It's fascinating. But genetic testing was never the full solution. It's just another tool to be used in our bag of tools. Follow your own path. Don't fall for the narrative.
Very helpful. Thank you Rob. I look forward to seeing what comes from Black Panther".
Hi Erica. For any given morph, there will be good examples and some which don't look quite as nice. This whole Desert Ghost confusion has been caused by prioritising a shed test result over what the snake actually looks like. We seem to have forgotten how to do this without "crutches".
Take the nicest visual DG we have/we make/we buy and breed it to the nicest visual DG we have/make/buy and we won't go far wrong. Not all of them will be outstanding, but selecting the best and breeding to the best is always going to give better results than breeding an animal that tests for A/B/C, but still doesn't look good.
Take that same great looking DG and pair it to a great looking example of another recessive to make our double hets. Again, this is common sense and doesn't need a shed test to tell us.
Where a shed test does help is when you pair up those double hets and you get a great looking visual for one recessive, but are not sure if its actually a het for the other. Here a genetic test will confirm if this is the correct snake to use going forward.
@@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls Wille said there are positives to shed testing but some people believe "it takes the fin out of it" so to speak.
The right tool for the specific job in hand is how I look at it. It's not a Swiss army knife that has a multitude of features. It's a one shot answer for what is often a one off problem.
I do think anticipation of proving out a het from breeding is possibly more than the anticipation of waiting for the results of a shed test, but professional breeders don't have the luxury of time, since that equates to money.
"Horses for Courses" springs to mind. I'm not sold on shed testing everything just because we can, And I can't cos we don't have it. So old school for me out of necessity.
Great video as always 👍
Thanks mate. This topic did need clarifying and i kept putting it off. Glad you enjoyed it.
Quality in quality out. That for sure. But what about breed het dg x het dg?
Hi mate. After all the fuss about DG being polygenic, it turns out its a simple Mendelian recessive after all. I think most of our morphs are also influenced by "kickers" and "enhancers" and this is what makes a really nice looking one vs an average one. This is the element of "polygenic" that was initially confusing, but the picture has become much clearer with more data.
This "polygenic" element may well be important for DG, but its not unique to DG. So breeding het DG to het DG is the same as breeding any other recessive with a het to het pairing. You have a 1:4 chance on producing a visual DG. The other 3 out of every 4 offspring will be 66% poss het for DG, again just the same as any other recessive.
And just as for a visual to visual pairing, choose the best looking examples you can to pair for your het to het pairings since the quality (and any genetic kickers and enhancers) will also be passed on to the offspring.
In my case, we started with a really nice visual DG male from Justin Kobylka to make all our hets and double hets and this really helps to ensure quality in subsequent generations. If you are buying hets, rather than making your own, try to establish from the breeder what the parents looked like and try to get photos before buying.