I mean, he could literally test if it's bomb proof. I hear BourbonMoth knows a guy who knows how to blow up river tables, I bet it'd work on a door... ;P
I rarely participate on here but I sincerely hope this channel starts getting some attention. The whole “most interesting man in the world” thing is pretty hard to pull off sans cringe, and your interest in quality and creativity comes across as sincere and a nice balance to said persona. That’s a long winded ‘I’m a fan”.
The wood is going to break before the joint breaks. As you state modern glues are stronger than the wood itself. I really think the advantages of the traditional joints like the mortise and tenon are all about spreading out the mechanical forces on the joint which spreads the forces throughout the wood verses applying all of those forces at the contact point.
This I believe to be the correct theory. Also adding to it the longer the tenon reduces the likelihood of the stile cupping and allowing the door to close properly for decades. In other words every little bit of movement from the stile will be amplified by the width of the door
On epoxy vs yellow glue. Yellow glue needs good wood to wood contact. And epoxy can fill gaps/sloppy joinery and be just as strong. Great videos! Love all the content.
Great minds think alike. Besides all the other reasons for liking epoxy on large joinery, I used to build/assemble large table type bases for heavy glass display cases by mesef. The glue up was so much less hectic using epoxy-like 30 wt oil on the mortise and tenons. Plus you can tunk things around a bit if the need be after bringing the joint together unlike yeller glue.Thanks❗️🍀
What a pleasant surprise on my Saturday morning. Thank you Eric for another great video. I've been enjoying you channel for about a year now and look forward to every video. The artistic and sometimes form and function pieces (the sconces) are my personal favorites. Looking forward to seeing your channel grow and the new content you will inevitably release. Cheers 🍻
I think 6 in each joint is prolly over kill , but in the words of Ron Swanson "don't half as one thing, whole ass everything" good work love the content
I know I’ve said this pretty much before on this channel. But, but, but. The only reason that mechanical joints were used was because the chemicals used at the time (animal glues) were not god enough for long lasting joints. We don’t have that problem now with adhesives that can be stronger than the wood itself. It all comes to glue surface area. The more glue surface area, the stronger the joint should be. A M&T joint is not intrinsically stronger or weaker than a domino or dowel joint if the total glue surface areas are roughly the same. It comes down to ease of making - for me the domino wins hands own on this. Accurate and repeatable. I rarely use my large morticer now and my dowel jigs sit unloved in a drawer. I’m no expert on adhesives but I’m probably like most people in working out that the cost of adhesives as a percentage of a total build is probably less than 1%. So, I don’t buy cheap adhesives just because I don’t want to take the chance of them being not so good. Titebond in all its various forms is my normal adhesive of choice. Most commonly Titebond 3 but I also use extend, cold press veneer etc. If I’m doing a complex glue up and I want a long open time, I use Cascamite. It’s a faff mixing it in that you have to be very precise in weighing out the powder and the water but it takes less than a minute (how important is a minute in the length of time a build takes?) and it gives me really strong joints and that all important long, long open time. Epoxy? I’m afraid I’m guilty of using what I know. I do use 2K epoxy glues but I equate those to small pieces, usually repairs. I’m sure I’m missing out but I haven’t found the need to find out about epoxy. Yet.
Just found your channel..... A. How the hell do you only have 19K subscribers? You have very quickly rising to the top 10 of my woodworking list. B. I love that you always wear somebody else's t-shirt (bourbon moth, Keith Johnson, ...) And even coffee cup is somebody else's. C. What the hell is Cow Dog AF. I gotta know? Keep it up. Hope more people find you!!
Thank you so much 🙂 I really appreciate the kind words! Jason and Keith are both good friends of mine… gotta support the community! Cow Dog Craft Works is my buddy Chris. Another solid maker and excellent human. (Oh and Chris Pye was my carving teacher 😎)
I’m thinking about the complex joints used in Japanese woodworking and they tend to have two qualities: mechanical advantage *and* large surface area (especially when compared to Western styled joinery) There’s lots I *don’t* know about Japanese woodworking: do they work with dried lumber? If so, do they glue their joints? But maybe there’s some knowledge to be found there that builds on or supports your hypothesis 🤔 Thanks for the video. Glad to hear people critically thinking about why we build the way we do.
That is an interesting question to ask. You're absolutely right, Japanese joinery tends to have large surface area allowing for more glue. In timber framing, however, they do not use glue, instead opting for a series of pins and wedges to hold joints tight for centuries.
@@ENCurtis Yes that’s true! But they also use high-surface-area joints in furniture making: double mortise-and-tenon joints to connect stretchers to legs, for example, or castle joints connecting table legs to aprons. So maybe that’s some historical support for your theory.
Dude…I’ve been using just dowels and I don’t have any issues…so whatever your using…in theory Should be bomb proof. I’ll have to give the epoxy glue up a try. Sounds fun. Nice show! I’m have fun. Thanks.
Damn TH-cam algorithm. It showed me the actual test video before the theory. Bummer. But then again, you're my new favorite ...... uhh...... this sounds way too short-lived. Like, I am bored after only a few episodes. Nah ... uuhhmm ..... you are my new walking woodworking knowledgebase. I could have written database but I find that ... again ... inappropriate. 😅 So yeah, no problem getting it all mixed up. I'll straighten it out in my brain. 😎 Cheerio 👍🎈
I used an XL domino machine and put 12x150mm dominoes into the joists of a deck that i store fire wood on. they have been there 3 years now no problems so far. No glue just some pocket hole screws to keep the deck pulled tight horizontally.
If you look at most 90 degree joint tests, you find that the failure occurs on the "vertical" piece (stile), just below the mortise depth, the mechanism being the split/failure of the lignin wood structure. IOW, the number of tenons, the stub tenon, the depth of the tenons, none of those factors control the strength of the joint, ONCE THOSE PARAMETERS (depth, etc.) MEET A CERTAIN MINIMUM. IOW, a 1/8" tenon, 1/4" long, isn't going to hold much, and the failure will be in the tenon. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/2" wide, 1/4" deep, 1" long tenon, the critical failure point shifts to the lignin. There seems to exist a fairly "standard" M/T design used no matter what the wood material. [A useful test would employ a series of successively larger tenons until the stile lignin fails.] I suspect the "standard" provides a large multiple (300~500%?) of the minimum needed strength, using dimensions learned (hard way!) over time (centuries).
Quickly becoming my favorite channel on TH-cam. I agree with your theory. I guess the ONLY other real question in light of the immense strength of Epoxy and yellow glue is........"How darned strong to you REALLY need the joint to be? Let me put it another way. If we can build a bomb proof door, with more tenons than carter has little liver pills...And all you need is 4/10ths the strength of a normal glued simple tenon. How much over-engineered "craftsmanship" do you need? Will simple dowels and glue provide more joint stress the unit will ever face over it's lifetime? Now with that door in your example. Might be worth it in light of the weight vs support. But on a normal piece of furniture. How much really needs to be designed into it based on how good epoxies and yellow glues really are in their own capacity?
I think you are right, a bunch of little M&Ts would be better than one big one, if you could get it just right. The tolerance would matter a lot, if those little M&Ts were loose at they would be able to break off individually without supporting each other and you would fail at the tenons shoulder, or the mortise would break out the side of the board (depending on how close it is to the side) Think about all the tricks people did with phone books. Like if you take 2 phone books and interleave the pages one by one they are extremely hard to pull apart, or if you try and rip a phone book in half it's really tough, unless you do the trick where you bow the pages out so you are ripping them in little tiny groups instead of all together.
That was my first thought: while the many mini m&t might be stronger, it's also a whoole lot fussier. The single big m&t ... simpler is better for a lot of reasons.
I’ve never used epoxy in woodworking. All wood glues are not the same. I’m assuming that the same is true for epoxies. Any suggestions on epoxies for woodworking? I trust a fellow creator more than google or amazon bot reviews. Thanks for making instructional videos, and especially for being humble during your presentation.
West System is an old favorite and one I still use with some regularity. Though lately I’ve been using TotalBoat’s high performance epoxy and it functions much the same. Have never had a problem with it in over two years.
Pretty disappointed that I didn’t hear an ‘ergo’ in this vid. Thus, I will intently watch forthcoming videos in the hope that you rectify this oversight.
I hate to be the one negative Nancy, but mechanical advantage does not mean what you think it means. Those pins create mechanical fastening, but mechanical advantage is the force multiplication you get by using simple machines such as wedges, screws, levers, and pulley systems.
one thing to consider is how well the chemical bond will hold up over decades. a joint that is stronger now due to modern chemistry may not be stronger 50 years from now. which, of course, is generally only important theoretically since most m&t joints will be overkill, structurally speaking.
I’m late to the party, but I agree! In general I think this is why people are selling biscuits short, they make out like a dry biscuit is easy to break and completely ignore the glue.
I have built a variety of about 50 bookcases and cabinets about 7' tall. All of them were built using biscuit joints alone. None have failed in 30 years. I have given up arguing with people who always say, "Biscuits are for alignment only." Are they absolutely the strongest? Maybe not. Are they strong enough for this application, apparently so. "In God we trust, all others bring data." - W. Edwards Deming
Interesting for sure, thanks for creating this video. The door's bottom rails are tall for cross grain joints, let us know if it ever experiences issues with movement? Subscribed - cheers.
Thanks for this interesting video. Now I am wander which and how you use epoxy. Glueing up a project is the most stressfull point in my project due to the open time. Do you have a video in it? I am also wandering how did you create the domino’s combined with the tenon? Thanks for sharing
Nope, not disagreeing at all. I think your theory has merit. A test is in order and I look forward to it. The "end grain gluing is weak" myth has been busted by Patrick Sullivan. That test I duplicated using red oak, which, as most know is so porous you can blow bubbles through a stick of it with one end in water, (or the fluid of your choice). Two square blocks, roughly 2-1/2 " x 1" thick, applied wood glue to the end grain, promptly absorbed into the porous grain, applied second coat, then clamped. Incredibly strong joint, just a glued, end grain butt joint. My theory; porosity of the grain pulled in the glue, second layer of glue bonded to that glue creating a nearly micro mortise and tenon effect. Glue being stronger than wood, it surprised me how strong the joint became. Timber framers using green wood will use the drawbore dowel method to mitigate the ensuing shrinkage. A fun and very effective method. Glad I stumbled across your channel, was an immediate sub for me.
Your hypothesis! A hypothesis is an assumption made before any research has been done. It is formed so that it can be tested to see if it might be true. A theory is a principle formed to explain the things already shown in data.
Isn’t the trick to keeping that door together essentially to NOT glue? Glue the rail/stile frame and maybe one middle fill strip. Then let the rest float. The door would never rack or warp. The pine doors in my 100 yr old house are dead square and built that way. Like a series of cabinet doors stacked together. Construction techniques, not technology, wins the day.
It's surface area, the more surface area you have and able to glue, the stronger it will be, compared to a single mortise and tenon you have multiple times the surface area, regardless of type of glue or type of wood.
I know your point was all about the surface area and gluage (new word), but it would have been next level if you had demonstrated a draw bore on the pinned tenon. Stay thirsty my friend.
I love your videos, but I kinda feel like this one is disingenuous. Your taking the same joint, mortise and tenon, adding an additional joint, loose tenons, then adding modern glue/ epoxy. Of course that will be stronger. But I kinda question whether it would outlive a pinned mortise and tenon, or better yet a pinned and glued mortise and tenon.
Interesting point, but i would like to suffest that what your are putting forward is an hypothesis and not a theory since a theory is a well-substantiated explanation of a phenomenon based on empirical evidence and scientific reasoning, while a hypothesis is a tentative explanation or prediction that is yet to be tested or confirmed. In other words, a theory has been rigorously tested and validated, while a hypothesis is an educated guess that requires further investigation. To your credit, that mistake is very common.
I’m super excited to see how this turns out! It seems you’re probably on to something and you have me convinced of the strength. I’ll look for the results in a few years 😂 And, to be absolutely pedantic, this is a hypothesis not a theory. Feel free to tell me to go to hell now.
A 10 minute video about how glued floating tenon joinery is stronger than a mechanical though mortise and tenon and yet you don’t do any gluing nor demonstrate the strength.
True that glue is stronger than lignum. Key variable here is time. How long does modern glue last and how does the strength degenerate over time? I don’t think we’ve had the time frame to prove that as yet. Case in point: What kind of glue holds layers of plywoods together? Have we seen old plywood delaminate through time? Maybe that tells us something?
That is absolutely the key variable. And the answer is: we don’t really know. Yellow glue has only been around 100+ years, so we know it has the capacity to last that long under the right circumstances. But past that… it’s anyone’s guess 🤷♂️ The next question then becomes: how long does a piece of furniture really *need* to last. 100 years? 500? 1,000?
I think you're wrong and the door is going to explode and there will be no survivors.
I just hope I catch that on camera. That's bound to go viral.
@@ENCurtis dress up like the Kool aid man and blast through it
Now we’re thinking like content creators.
hahaha
I mean, he could literally test if it's bomb proof. I hear BourbonMoth knows a guy who knows how to blow up river tables, I bet it'd work on a door... ;P
I rarely participate on here but I sincerely hope this channel starts getting some attention. The whole “most interesting man in the world” thing is pretty hard to pull off sans cringe, and your interest in quality and creativity comes across as sincere and a nice balance to said persona. That’s a long winded ‘I’m a fan”.
I really appreciate the kind words. And I’m really glad you’re enjoying my videos. And my nonsense 😂🙏🙏
The wood is going to break before the joint breaks. As you state modern glues are stronger than the wood itself. I really think the advantages of the traditional joints like the mortise and tenon are all about spreading out the mechanical forces on the joint which spreads the forces throughout the wood verses applying all of those forces at the contact point.
This I believe to be the correct theory. Also adding to it the longer the tenon reduces the likelihood of the stile cupping and allowing the door to close properly for decades. In other words every little bit of movement from the stile will be amplified by the width of the door
On epoxy vs yellow glue. Yellow glue needs good wood to wood contact. And epoxy can fill gaps/sloppy joinery and be just as strong. Great videos! Love all the content.
Great video dude. The test would be cool, especially if elephants could be involved
Thanks brother! I appreciate that. Except now i have to go purchase some prop elephants for the inevitable test video 😂
I look forward to seeing how your theory works out! And as always thanks for sharing...
As always, thanks for watching my man 🙏
Great minds think alike. Besides all the other reasons for liking epoxy on large joinery, I used to build/assemble large table type bases for heavy glass display cases by mesef. The glue up was so much less hectic using epoxy-like 30 wt oil on the mortise and tenons. Plus you can tunk things around a bit if the need be after bringing the joint together unlike yeller glue.Thanks❗️🍀
The open time of a slow cure epoxy is a true god send for large glue ups like this. Couldn't agree more.
I think you are on to something that proves how good you are.
I don't know how good I am but I do think I'm on to something!
What a pleasant surprise on my Saturday morning. Thank you Eric for another great video. I've been enjoying you channel for about a year now and look forward to every video. The artistic and sometimes form and function pieces (the sconces) are my personal favorites. Looking forward to seeing your channel grow and the new content you will inevitably release. Cheers 🍻
Thank you so much 🙂 more projects are coming soon. Just finding a new workflow with putting long form videos out every week!
I think 6 in each joint is prolly over kill , but in the words of Ron Swanson "don't half as one thing, whole ass everything"
good work love the content
Can't Wait to see the next vidéo about that....
Oh it’s coming… 😎
Great thoughts. Thanks!!
Glad you liked it!
Very interesting. Would love to see a video on hanging the door.
Coming soon!
I know I’ve said this pretty much before on this channel. But, but, but. The only reason that mechanical joints were used was because the chemicals used at the time (animal glues) were not god enough for long lasting joints. We don’t have that problem now with adhesives that can be stronger than the wood itself.
It all comes to glue surface area. The more glue surface area, the stronger the joint should be. A M&T joint is not intrinsically stronger or weaker than a domino or dowel joint if the total glue surface areas are roughly the same. It comes down to ease of making - for me the domino wins hands own on this. Accurate and repeatable. I rarely use my large morticer now and my dowel jigs sit unloved in a drawer.
I’m no expert on adhesives but I’m probably like most people in working out that the cost of adhesives as a percentage of a total build is probably less than 1%. So, I don’t buy cheap adhesives just because I don’t want to take the chance of them being not so good. Titebond in all its various forms is my normal adhesive of choice. Most commonly Titebond 3 but I also use extend, cold press veneer etc.
If I’m doing a complex glue up and I want a long open time, I use Cascamite. It’s a faff mixing it in that you have to be very precise in weighing out the powder and the water but it takes less than a minute (how important is a minute in the length of time a build takes?) and it gives me really strong joints and that all important long, long open time.
Epoxy? I’m afraid I’m guilty of using what I know. I do use 2K epoxy glues but I equate those to small pieces, usually repairs. I’m sure I’m missing out but I haven’t found the need to find out about epoxy. Yet.
Just found your channel.....
A. How the hell do you only have 19K subscribers? You have very quickly rising to the top 10 of my woodworking list.
B. I love that you always wear somebody else's t-shirt (bourbon moth, Keith Johnson, ...) And even coffee cup is somebody else's.
C. What the hell is Cow Dog AF. I gotta know?
Keep it up. Hope more people find you!!
Thank you so much 🙂 I really appreciate the kind words! Jason and Keith are both good friends of mine… gotta support the community! Cow Dog Craft Works is my buddy Chris. Another solid maker and excellent human. (Oh and Chris Pye was my carving teacher 😎)
I’m thinking about the complex joints used in Japanese woodworking and they tend to have two qualities: mechanical advantage *and* large surface area (especially when compared to Western styled joinery)
There’s lots I *don’t* know about Japanese woodworking: do they work with dried lumber? If so, do they glue their joints?
But maybe there’s some knowledge to be found there that builds on or supports your hypothesis 🤔
Thanks for the video. Glad to hear people critically thinking about why we build the way we do.
That is an interesting question to ask. You're absolutely right, Japanese joinery tends to have large surface area allowing for more glue. In timber framing, however, they do not use glue, instead opting for a series of pins and wedges to hold joints tight for centuries.
@@ENCurtis Yes that’s true! But they also use high-surface-area joints in furniture making: double mortise-and-tenon joints to connect stretchers to legs, for example, or castle joints connecting table legs to aprons. So maybe that’s some historical support for your theory.
They also use rice as a glue, just cook it sticky and mash it up real fine
Dude…I’ve been using just dowels and I don’t have any issues…so whatever your using…in theory Should be bomb proof. I’ll have to give the epoxy glue up a try. Sounds fun. Nice show! I’m have fun. Thanks.
Damn TH-cam algorithm. It showed me the actual test video before the theory. Bummer.
But then again, you're my new favorite ...... uhh...... this sounds way too short-lived. Like, I am bored after only a few episodes.
Nah ... uuhhmm ..... you are my new walking woodworking knowledgebase. I could have written database but I find that ... again ... inappropriate. 😅
So yeah, no problem getting it all mixed up. I'll straighten it out in my brain. 😎
Cheerio 👍🎈
Thanks for the video
No one is going to disagree with you in the comments. Ok.. you win this round.
Very interesting video though!
I used an XL domino machine and put 12x150mm dominoes into the joists of a deck that i store fire wood on. they have been there 3 years now no problems so far. No glue just some pocket hole screws to keep the deck pulled tight horizontally.
Great video. Way more thought provoking than how to sharpen a pencil. BTW - I agree with you, makes sense. Mahalo for sharing! : )
Glad you enjoyed it my man! And thank you 🙂
i REALLY LOVE your video's Keep it up . Julien Lamarche
Awesome!!!! Thanks!!!!
If you look at most 90 degree joint tests, you find that the failure occurs on the "vertical" piece (stile), just below the mortise depth, the mechanism being the split/failure of the lignin wood structure. IOW, the number of tenons, the stub tenon, the depth of the tenons, none of those factors control the strength of the joint, ONCE THOSE PARAMETERS (depth, etc.) MEET A CERTAIN MINIMUM. IOW, a 1/8" tenon, 1/4" long, isn't going to hold much, and the failure will be in the tenon. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/2" wide, 1/4" deep, 1" long tenon, the critical failure point shifts to the lignin. There seems to exist a fairly "standard" M/T design used no matter what the wood material. [A useful test would employ a series of successively larger tenons until the stile lignin fails.] I suspect the "standard" provides a large multiple (300~500%?) of the minimum needed strength, using dimensions learned (hard way!) over time (centuries).
Quickly becoming my favorite channel on TH-cam. I agree with your theory. I guess the ONLY other real question in light of the immense strength of Epoxy and yellow glue is........"How darned strong to you REALLY need the joint to be?
Let me put it another way. If we can build a bomb proof door, with more tenons than carter has little liver pills...And all you need is 4/10ths the strength of a normal glued simple tenon. How much over-engineered "craftsmanship" do you need?
Will simple dowels and glue provide more joint stress the unit will ever face over it's lifetime? Now with that door in your example. Might be worth it in light of the weight vs support. But on a normal piece of furniture. How much really needs to be designed into it based on how good epoxies and yellow glues really are in their own capacity?
I believe your theory to be correct and proven in the past to be true my friend.
I'm hoping to prove it true in the future as well!
Love the video although the engineer in me says: that has to be tested :)
It absolutely does! I’ll be sure to do so asap 😎
I think you are right, a bunch of little M&Ts would be better than one big one, if you could get it just right. The tolerance would matter a lot, if those little M&Ts were loose at they would be able to break off individually without supporting each other and you would fail at the tenons shoulder, or the mortise would break out the side of the board (depending on how close it is to the side)
Think about all the tricks people did with phone books. Like if you take 2 phone books and interleave the pages one by one they are extremely hard to pull apart, or if you try and rip a phone book in half it's really tough, unless you do the trick where you bow the pages out so you are ripping them in little tiny groups instead of all together.
You're absolutely right. The fit of the initial joint is still critical. I'm just working under the assumption that it's toight as a toiger.
That was my first thought: while the many mini m&t might be stronger, it's also a whoole lot fussier. The single big m&t ... simpler is better for a lot of reasons.
Interesting. Do you have a video about how you created the sample piece?
I’ve never used epoxy in woodworking. All wood glues are not the same. I’m assuming that the same is true for epoxies. Any suggestions on epoxies for woodworking? I trust a fellow creator more than google or amazon bot reviews. Thanks for making instructional videos, and especially for being humble during your presentation.
West System is an old favorite and one I still use with some regularity. Though lately I’ve been using TotalBoat’s high performance epoxy and it functions much the same. Have never had a problem with it in over two years.
@@ENCurtis Wow, that was a fast reply. Thank you for the recommendations! Now stop w/ replies & get back to making a thing (kidding).
Pretty disappointed that I didn’t hear an ‘ergo’ in this vid. Thus, I will intently watch forthcoming videos in the hope that you rectify this oversight.
Haha that was an unforgivable oversight on my end. Ergo, I need must amend this error in a future video.
@@ENCurtis subbed :)
I hate to be the one negative Nancy, but mechanical advantage does not mean what you think it means. Those pins create mechanical fastening, but mechanical advantage is the force multiplication you get by using simple machines such as wedges, screws, levers, and pulley systems.
Words are hard.
one thing to consider is how well the chemical bond will hold up over decades. a joint that is stronger now due to modern chemistry may not be stronger 50 years from now. which, of course, is generally only important theoretically since most m&t joints will be overkill, structurally speaking.
I’m late to the party, but I agree! In general I think this is why people are selling biscuits short, they make out like a dry biscuit is easy to break and completely ignore the glue.
I have built a variety of about 50 bookcases and cabinets about 7' tall. All of them were built using biscuit joints alone. None have failed in 30 years. I have given up arguing with people who always say, "Biscuits are for alignment only." Are they absolutely the strongest? Maybe not. Are they strong enough for this application, apparently so. "In God we trust, all others bring data." - W. Edwards Deming
Door looks great.
Thank you!
Interesting for sure, thanks for creating this video. The door's bottom rails are tall for cross grain joints, let us know if it ever experiences issues with movement? Subscribed - cheers.
Will do! And thanks!
I don't have time to wait a few years for a new video revisiting this idea. Please test it. :)
Oh I absolutely will!
thanks
Thanks for this interesting video. Now I am wander which and how you use epoxy. Glueing up a project is the most stressfull point in my project due to the open time. Do you have a video in it?
I am also wandering how did you create the domino’s combined with the tenon?
Thanks for sharing
I would think offset tapered dowels would significantly improve the strength of the M&T joints. Was that possible for your large door?
That hole weakens the timber in the stretching force direction. People commonly forget that
Nope, not disagreeing at all. I think your theory has merit. A test is in order and I look forward to it. The "end grain gluing is weak" myth has been busted by Patrick Sullivan. That test I duplicated using red oak, which, as most know is so porous you can blow bubbles through a stick of it with one end in water, (or the fluid of your choice). Two square blocks, roughly 2-1/2 " x 1" thick, applied wood glue to the end grain, promptly absorbed into the porous grain, applied second coat, then clamped. Incredibly strong joint, just a glued, end grain butt joint. My theory; porosity of the grain pulled in the glue, second layer of glue bonded to that glue creating a nearly micro mortise and tenon effect. Glue being stronger than wood, it surprised me how strong the joint became. Timber framers using green wood will use the drawbore dowel method to mitigate the ensuing shrinkage. A fun and very effective method. Glad I stumbled across your channel, was an immediate sub for me.
I used to explore the sized end grain butt joint with my 6th graders when I taught wood shop. It always surprises just how strong it truly is.
And thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed enough to stick around my dude 🙏
So... what kind of whiskey is in that coffee cup?
Your hypothesis! A hypothesis is an assumption made before any research has been done. It is formed so that it can be tested to see if it might be true. A theory is a principle formed to explain the things already shown in data.
Isn’t the trick to keeping that door together essentially to NOT glue? Glue the rail/stile frame and maybe one middle fill strip. Then let the rest float. The door would never rack or warp. The pine doors in my 100 yr old house are dead square and built that way. Like a series of cabinet doors stacked together.
Construction techniques, not technology, wins the day.
Bravo
Grazie 👍
now my brain hurts...
Hmm i think if the wood shrinks this type of joint would get more loose, not tighter..
One more on board. Abraço
Obrigado!
@@ENCurtis google or you know some portuguese🫣
It's surface area, the more surface area you have and able to glue, the stronger it will be, compared to a single mortise and tenon you have multiple times the surface area, regardless of type of glue or type of wood.
Absolutely accurate 👍
You definitely need to put your theory to the test.
I absolutely will!
I know your point was all about the surface area and gluage (new word), but it would have been next level if you had demonstrated a draw bore on the pinned tenon. Stay thirsty my friend.
I'm nerdy enough that I think the draw bore deserves it's own video haha
someplace along the line you will hit the point of no extra value. If 2 dowels are good then 10 may not be 5x better, it may even be worse than 4
For sure. There is a point of diminishing returns and I imagine that rate becomes exponential relatively quickly.
👍
🙏
I love your videos, but I kinda feel like this one is disingenuous. Your taking the same joint, mortise and tenon, adding an additional joint, loose tenons, then adding modern glue/ epoxy. Of course that will be stronger. But I kinda question whether it would outlive a pinned mortise and tenon, or better yet a pinned and glued mortise and tenon.
Do you offer classes?
Sure do! I’m teaching at Austin School of Furniture Design in November. Currently that’s the only class that’s open.
Interesting point, but i would like to suffest that what your are putting forward is an hypothesis and not a theory since a theory is a well-substantiated explanation of a phenomenon based on empirical evidence and scientific reasoning, while a hypothesis is a tentative explanation or prediction that is yet to be tested or confirmed. In other words, a theory has been rigorously tested and validated, while a hypothesis is an educated guess that requires further investigation. To your credit, that mistake is very common.
I’m super excited to see how this turns out! It seems you’re probably on to something and you have me convinced of the strength. I’ll look for the results in a few years 😂 And, to be absolutely pedantic, this is a hypothesis not a theory. Feel free to tell me to go to hell now.
😂 no no I can accept that I'm no scientist. Just a boy who makes things out of dead trees. I have a theory as to why that is though...
@@ENCurtis 😂 touché!
Actually you have a hypothesis... but still very knowledgeable and entertaining 😊
Forgive my scientific indiscretion 😄 I haven't had a chemistry class nearly two decades.
A 10 minute video about how glued floating tenon joinery is stronger than a mechanical though mortise and tenon and yet you don’t do any gluing nor demonstrate the strength.
Not convinced tenon plus mortise is serious but delivery to annoying for me to watch.
In 200 years when some poor shnook has to repair or replace a part on that door, he/she will be swearing and cursing the guy that built it😁
Shouldn't that pinned m&t be drawbored? (/me ducks)
True that glue is stronger than lignum. Key variable here is time. How long does modern glue last and how does the strength degenerate over time? I don’t think we’ve had the time frame to prove that as yet.
Case in point: What kind of glue holds layers of plywoods together? Have we seen old plywood delaminate through time? Maybe that tells us something?
That is absolutely the key variable. And the answer is: we don’t really know. Yellow glue has only been around 100+ years, so we know it has the capacity to last that long under the right circumstances. But past that… it’s anyone’s guess 🤷♂️
The next question then becomes: how long does a piece of furniture really *need* to last. 100 years? 500? 1,000?
Well I laughed. Learned a few things too. 🚪🪚. Couldn't find a glue emoji
At or with, it matters not. Glad you enjoyed my dude!