Definitely not the same! Only an idiot would think so.... On that note 80% of all medical visits don't need a 16,000 trained MD they just need an FNP Family Practice Nurse Practioner or DacOM (Acupuncture physician), or Doct of Chiro (all level-1 providers).if I after 2 to 5 treatments there is no improvement then time to reer to a 16,000 hr trained provider like a MD (level-2 provider ) I think MDs (level-2 providrrs) should not be seeing patients until those same patients have already seen & tried the above level-1 providers first. Oh wait thats already happened as most MDs are chasing high paying specializations... Leaving the void filled by level-1 providers Sorry my bad 🤷♀️
Although some states might have full autonomy privileges, that doesn't mean hospitals don't have in-house practice limitations. It depends on the place of work and its culture. I have seen too many NPs treated like RNs with little clinical decision makings. Even if they have any, they have to follow protocols and algorithms that were given to them.
No comparison, apple vs. orange, engineer vs. construction worker. an NP is not "splitting workload" with physician, IS in different roles. just like front desk, housekeeper, nurse to draw blood, physician to diagnose/treatment/decision maker,...
NPs who think they should be called Doctor in a setting where there are physicians are wrong. Stay in your lane. If you want to be called doctor go teach at a University. If you want to be called doctor in a setting where physicians are present, go to medical school. Yes we earned a doctorate but please use common sense. The depth and breadth of our (DNP, FNP) education doesn’t even come close to a physicians’. Get real.
Are there actually NP's that go around addressing themselves as Dr? Also which professions in the health field are notorious for trying to equate and equal themselves to a Dr's level?
If they earn a doctorate, they can be called doctors. You don't own that title. That title belongs to anyone who earns a doctorate. Pharmacists are doctors as well as whoever earn a PhD or doctorate. If they went through 8 years of school they deserve it. Stay out of their lane. It's not their fault there's a shortage of MD's and now patients want NP's because they're tired of waiting for months.
Who care to be physician..they don’t want to be physician because they are NP..and they have dona a lot of years medical school..prepared to diagnose and treatment people..I don’t know where is the md problem here ????
MD's (and DO's) and NP's both make valuable contributions to the field of medicine. There are plenty of commenters on both sides here who are making fools of themselves and are representing their professions poorly. Like any profession, there are both terrible and fantastic providers in each group.
"Under federal regulations, a "health care provider" is defined as: a doctor of medicine or osteopathy, podiatrist, dentist, chiropractor, clinical psychologist, optometrist, nurse practitioner, nurse-midwife, or a clinical social worker who is authorized to practice by the State and performing within the scope of their practice as defined by State law." Definition provided by UC Berkley. UC Berkley > XFGA
@@flyingturtle2499 Nazis forced Jewish physicians to refer to themselves as “providers” as a way to demean them and take their rights. You are quite literally being a nazi by referring to physicians as providers! 😘
Both professions contribute greatly to each other. NP’s were invented by overworked doctors in Colorado. And NP’s are nurses with advanced education (usually a masters or doctorate) that take on common ailments to assist doctors that are overwhelmed. A perfect healthcare team consists of both.
calling yourself a doctor implies 3 years residency and 4 years med school. Often 4 years residency more commonly, and often 5 or 6 years training for many other specialties Can be additional 7 or 8 years too. Doctorate vs doctor are two different things.
@@SuperHogwart Agreed. In the practice of medicine, MDs have obtained the highest level of education and training and hence should be referred to as doctors. When DNPs (their doctorate is in nursing leadership or education or clinical nursing) are practicing medicine (diagnosing and treating illness, prescribing medicines, performing procedures or surgeries) they should not be confused with doctors who are MDs. Just like one with a PhD in literature who is in the hospital, should not be referred to as a doctor to avoid such confusion. DNPs have earned the doctor title and should use it in the appropriate non-clinical situation.
@@SuperHogwart @@SuperHogwart So youre arguing that uptodate is practicing medicine. It is guessing medicine. You cant practice medicine without the foundation and the years of critiquing by running your ideas by the attending, and a variety of attendings. Now, reading up to date and being tested on it may show u can practice medicine, but even then its missing the foundations. Now if u guys took the board exams step 2 and step 3, then specialty boards like IM, oral boards, giving good research which is truly vetted by experts, THEN you can sit at the table. If you can start showing you have a semblance of ownership of the domain of surgical care, maybe you can THINK about starting a REAL residency with us.
@@jeanpierre9539 some nurses are doctors in their own profession and most surgical practitioners are doctors (PhD) as they need a very very min a masters. A PhD is preferred for most jobs.. we are all a team everybody is needed. We do not degrade or disrespect the team.
You can refuse an NP playing physician in your medical visit, ask for an MD physician, not a NP-playing-physician. It's at a hospital setting, not a theater.
If you prefer to live a good life, choose a NP. These doctors are clueless, care is rushed, and most do NOT know how to prescribe medications appropriately. I’ve had to correct so many orders that physicians have made mistakes on. This could’ve cost patients their lives…
@@knightlykin1499 Most patients that I know prefer MD. One person just mentioned the other day that she should have just waited to see her MD because the NP was useless for her issue.
@@eccentriclocsI’ve heard the complete opposite. People prefer NP’s because they still have a minimum of 6-8 years of education and can provide quick relief from common ailments such as depression or chronic pain rather than waiting for months to see an MD. People also don’t realize that the idea of an NP was invented by overworked MD’s in Colorado who needed help.
Hello World you’ve clearly learned nothing from the video. They have equal rights granted by the state because their value and contributions are recognized. This is just a matter of ego and bravado on a part of the medical community.
@@SuperHogwart MDs don't have any problems with working with NPs in a respectful relationship. NPs, with their level of education at or below the level of a 3rd year medical student, need supervision, just as 3rd year medical students need supervision due to their limited education and training. One wouldn't want a physician with a crash course in nursing to be an unsupervised bedside nurse. For my nursing needs, I wouldn't want a MD (who is trained in medicine rather than nursing). I want my bedside nurse to be a RN! Similarly, for my medical needs (diagnosing, ordering and interpreting tests, performing surgery or procedures), I wouldn't want anyone else than a MD (the individual with the most rigorous and extensive training in the practice of medicine). MDs equally value and respect all members of the healthcare team: nurses, EKG techs, respiratory therapists, front desk stuff, and midlevel providers (NP/PA). However, members with limited education and training need direct supervision to work effectively as part of the healthcare team.
@toh bot In order for NPs to be considered "copilots", they would have to undergo the same amount of flight training as pilots/MDs. Unfortunately, NPs are only required to receive 3% of the training that MDs receive. Therefore NPs are analagous to flight attendants with 3% of flight training as that of pilots. Best summarized here: authenticmedicine.com/2020/02/the-aafa-attacks-reasons-why-flight-attendants-should-be-allowed-to-fly-planes
@@laurenhills239 Its actually more likely 25 states that have allowed for independent practice. And that is because NPs have argued through lobbying to VASTLY LOWER THE BAR of training required for independent practice. Previously, it was 15,000 hours of training before you could be considered for independent practice. Thanks to excellent NP lobbying, its only 500 hours or 3%. FYI, barbers in the state of Texas are required to have more training hours than nurse practitioners. Physician and NP education is not just "different" but frankly NP education is VASTLY inferior, both in quantity and quality, to MD education. I can't believe there is even a discussion about this. Naturopaths can practice independently in many states as well. Are as they competent as physicians? Nope. In fact, We should extend independent practice to anyone and everyone. I vote for medical assistants to practice independently so that they are able to practice to the full extent of their training. If patients were truly aware of the education and training differences between physicians and midlevel providers, majority of them would not allow unsupervised midlevel practice.
@@flyingturtle2499 current standards are shifting towards mandating a DNP and CRNA is seeing a similar shift with 2025 the set date for CRNAs requiring a DNP or DNAP
I understand, I think, what Jordan was saying, with the suggestion that CRNA is a "nursing practice." Probably better to say "nursing practice," as the term "NP" is presently mostly used to describe nurse practitioners. I am aware of that shift. Many of the schools have already made the transition to only having doctoral programs. The initial plan, when I was still in nursing school, was to set it for 2015. I do not, however, think that a necessity for the transition from a master's to a doctoral program is actually necessary, or generally even beneficial, for the practice. It pretty much just means more student loans!
Nope, its not equal. This is not equal if the training is 3 years residency (70-80 h weeks and structured lectures resident level lectures not med school level) and 4 year med school (top of class only, or having had clinical experiences and extra years after college and did great on top exam of college (MCAT))- again crazy hours each month and year. NP requirements nothing like this. .
@@tomare6479 I know physician education is grueling, but it is offensive and unsupported to imply that physicians (as a whole) are smarter, better at providing medical care, or more dedicated to the profession/patients than DNPs. It sounds like you are in the right profession and are truly passionate about your role. I admire that! It's clear that the future of healthcare will require interprofessional collaboration, so while we may disagree on what to call one another, it's important to remember the primary reason we are in healthcare.
@@JessicaNishikawa I don't see the need to debate you on who is more prepared and better at providing Medical Care. Its more about the group than the individual, which is not a fallacy im willing to ponder with people. There are no unsupported assertions being made as everything is strongly supported. Ask any doctor and ask your colleagues, ask the data. I would love to work together but I am offended when we suggest the only way to get along is by living in a fantasy world.
@@tomare6479 What is your point? If it is that physician and nurse practitioner education is different, then you are right and most people I think would agree. If your point is that physicians are better at doing their job than NPs are at doing their job, then unfortunately you are mistaken and the evidence doesn't support that statement. As you know, if you are in healthcare, evidence is very important and should ground the information we propagate.
I think it's the lack of standardisation in education, and pushing for independent practice. RNs and MDs are also mostly female, but they don't get the flack that NPs do.
@@Phil4Jesus I don’t think so, and I’m smoking intelligence, thanks for asking. You need to be stripped of that DNP behind your name, it’s an embarrassment. Assuming you really are one…
![NP & PA vs MD & DO | The Scope Creep Controversy [Research Explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ow5N9jXJ-_A/mqdefault.jpg)
This wasn't helpful at all lol. They kept saying they're basically the same, and they are most definitely not.
@@amirdada5700 hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
@@amirdada5700 This is such a fucking sexist comment. You're an idiot.
@@laurapratt9147 how is it sexist in the slightest?
guess that’s why you have one sub to your channel lol
Definitely not the same!
Only an idiot would think so....
On that note 80% of all medical visits don't need a 16,000 trained MD they just need an FNP Family Practice Nurse Practioner or DacOM (Acupuncture physician), or Doct of Chiro (all level-1 providers).if I after 2 to 5 treatments there is no improvement then time to reer to a 16,000 hr trained provider like a MD (level-2 provider )
I think MDs (level-2 providrrs) should not be seeing patients until those same patients have already seen & tried the above level-1 providers first.
Oh wait thats already happened as most MDs are chasing high paying specializations...
Leaving the void filled by level-1 providers
Sorry my bad 🤷♀️
Although some states might have full autonomy privileges, that doesn't mean hospitals don't have in-house practice limitations. It depends on the place of work and its culture. I have seen too many NPs treated like RNs with little clinical decision makings. Even if they have any, they have to follow protocols and algorithms that were given to them.
No comparison, apple vs. orange, engineer vs. construction worker. an NP is not "splitting workload" with physician, IS in different roles. just like front desk, housekeeper, nurse to draw blood, physician to diagnose/treatment/decision maker,...
Lol
It’s like a construction worker to a painter, or a cashier to a welfare recipient… yeah yeah blah blah 😂
Do you know what NP is..don’t make a comment if you not..NP diasgnose treatment too..they have done school for this thing
No. Nursing involves a substantial amount of medical knowledge far more than drawing blood.
NPs who think they should be called Doctor in a setting where there are physicians are wrong. Stay in your lane. If you want to be called doctor go teach at a University. If you want to be called doctor in a setting where physicians are present, go to medical school. Yes we earned a doctorate but please use common sense. The depth and breadth of our (DNP, FNP) education doesn’t even come close to a physicians’. Get real.
Are there actually NP's that go around addressing themselves as Dr? Also which professions in the health field are notorious for trying to equate and equal themselves to a Dr's level?
If anything MDs should call themselves medics. They‘re all doctors.
@@sverncollins5410Yes. Some are suing their states for that right.
If they earn a doctorate, they can be called doctors. You don't own that title. That title belongs to anyone who earns a doctorate. Pharmacists are doctors as well as whoever earn a PhD or doctorate. If they went through 8 years of school they deserve it. Stay out of their lane. It's not their fault there's a shortage of MD's and now patients want NP's because they're tired of waiting for months.
Who care to be physician..they don’t want to be physician because they are NP..and they have dona a lot of years medical school..prepared to diagnose and treatment people..I don’t know where is the md problem here ????
MD's (and DO's) and NP's both make valuable contributions to the field of medicine. There are plenty of commenters on both sides here who are making fools of themselves and are representing their professions poorly. Like any profession, there are both terrible and fantastic providers in each group.
MDs are NOT providers they are PHYSICIANS.
"Under federal regulations, a "health care provider" is defined as: a doctor of medicine or osteopathy, podiatrist, dentist, chiropractor, clinical psychologist, optometrist, nurse practitioner, nurse-midwife, or a clinical social worker who is authorized to practice by the State and performing within the scope of their practice as defined by State law." Definition provided by UC Berkley.
UC Berkley > XFGA
@@flyingturtle2499 Nazis forced Jewish physicians to refer to themselves as “providers” as a way to demean them and take their rights. You are quite literally being a nazi by referring to physicians as providers! 😘
True...but there is still a big difference
@@xfga4531 physicians are providers honey . 😂
One goes to medical school and one doesn’t. BIG DIFFERENCE
Both go in medical school 😂😂
@@gesibajraktari6523 NP go to medical school?
Yeah they’re not the same
ARE THEY FLRITING????? I CAN FEEL THE CHEMISTRY
no they are not
Not really
It sounds like they’re playing characters.
hes gay
For all MD students..do you like it or not NP and MD are same..the people can choose where they want to go..TO NP OR MD ..
Are they flirting
Lmao
no they are not
@@abbadfatima1239 thank you!
Abbad Fatima 123 hmm yes they are 😹
Lauren Hills 😂😂😂no i think they are just having a friendly conversation nothing more
Both professions contribute greatly to each other. NP’s were invented by overworked doctors in Colorado. And NP’s are nurses with advanced education (usually a masters or doctorate) that take on common ailments to assist doctors that are overwhelmed. A perfect healthcare team consists of both.
MDs are far more educated than an NP. There is no comparison. Trust me.
Phil DNP, FNP-C
how did you even become a doctor with that kind of rage mate? No, thank you
NP PhD have more education than MD.
A lot of noctor vibes coming from this one.
She probably thinks she knows just as much as a physician which is ridiculous
experienced NPs very well do
@@tylers4615 lmao you’re delusional.
And he’s clearly trying to get into her pants
How are the rules with calling yourself a doctor, Danielle, and what are your thoughts on it?
calling yourself a doctor implies 3 years residency and 4 years med school. Often 4 years residency more commonly, and often 5 or 6 years training for many other specialties Can be additional 7 or 8 years too. Doctorate vs doctor are two different things.
Tom Are wrong. The term Doctor simply infers you’ve reached the highest standing of a given discipline. Don’t speak on what you don’t know.
@@SuperHogwart Agreed. In the practice of medicine, MDs have obtained the highest level of education and training and hence should be referred to as doctors. When DNPs (their doctorate is in nursing leadership or education or clinical nursing) are practicing medicine (diagnosing and treating illness, prescribing medicines, performing procedures or surgeries) they should not be confused with doctors who are MDs. Just like one with a PhD in literature who is in the hospital, should not be referred to as a doctor to avoid such confusion. DNPs have earned the doctor title and should use it in the appropriate non-clinical situation.
@@SuperHogwart i beg your pardon. I believe semantics are fruitless. You don't need to educate me. Thank you.
@@SuperHogwart @@SuperHogwart So youre arguing that uptodate is practicing medicine. It is guessing medicine. You cant practice medicine without the foundation and the years of critiquing by running your ideas by the attending, and a variety of attendings. Now, reading up to date and being tested on it may show u can practice medicine, but even then its missing the foundations. Now if u guys took the board exams step 2 and step 3, then specialty boards like IM, oral boards, giving good research which is truly vetted by experts, THEN you can sit at the table. If you can start showing you have a semblance of ownership of the domain of surgical care, maybe you can THINK about starting a REAL residency with us.
The difference is one could pass the MCAT and one could not.
One had to sit the MCAT the other did not, does not mean can not. Correct yourself.
@@jennyfarrell9717 Exactly. 😂 people just say anything.
@@jeanpierre9539 some nurses are doctors in their own profession and most surgical practitioners are doctors (PhD) as they need a very very min a masters. A PhD is preferred for most jobs.. we are all a team everybody is needed. We do not degrade or disrespect the team.
You obviously are not very intelligent.
As a patient do I have a choice?
Yes, yes you do. Ask for their credentials and then request as you see fit
A chance at what? What are you asking?
You can refuse an NP playing physician in your medical visit, ask for an MD physician, not a NP-playing-physician. It's at a hospital setting, not a theater.
If you prefer to live a good life, choose a NP. These doctors are clueless, care is rushed, and most do NOT know how to prescribe medications appropriately. I’ve had to correct so many orders that physicians have made mistakes on. This could’ve cost patients their lives…
Nothing really compares to being a MD.
Yes, a DNP. 🙂
@@jeanpierre9539 MD…nothing else compares☺️
If nothing compares, why do most patients prefer NP's?
@@knightlykin1499 Most patients that I know prefer MD. One person just mentioned the other day that she should have just waited to see her MD because the NP was useless for her issue.
@@eccentriclocsI’ve heard the complete opposite. People prefer NP’s because they still have a minimum of 6-8 years of education and can provide quick relief from common ailments such as depression or chronic pain rather than waiting for months to see an MD. People also don’t realize that the idea of an NP was invented by overworked MD’s in Colorado who needed help.
MD is definitely taking NP home,if he hasnt already.Tell the truth
He is clearly gay..
@@cronx1337 Youre clearly ignorant homophobic and uneducated. Loser
😂😂😂
such a sad comment, do better.
Me meti sin queres haca en discor
Both of these children are completely clueless.
Doctors have no idea what is MedSurge. There is so much training in medsurge in nursing.
Calm down lol
Of course MD.
MD is expected to be arrogant?
if getting of greedy, then problem solved
Stop fluffing their ego.
Mike Natter is barely a physician
They don't compare. Just like pilots (MDs) and flight attendants (NPs) don't compare.
Hello World you’ve clearly learned nothing from the video. They have equal rights granted by the state because their value and contributions are recognized. This is just a matter of ego and bravado on a part of the medical community.
@@SuperHogwart MDs don't have any problems with working with NPs in a respectful relationship. NPs, with their level of education at or below the level of a 3rd year medical student, need supervision, just as 3rd year medical students need supervision due to their limited education and training.
One wouldn't want a physician with a crash course in nursing to be an unsupervised bedside nurse. For my nursing needs, I wouldn't want a MD (who is trained in medicine rather than nursing). I want my bedside nurse to be a RN!
Similarly, for my medical needs (diagnosing, ordering and interpreting tests, performing surgery or procedures), I wouldn't want anyone else than a MD (the individual with the most rigorous and extensive training in the practice of medicine).
MDs equally value and respect all members of the healthcare team: nurses, EKG techs, respiratory therapists, front desk stuff, and midlevel providers (NP/PA). However, members with limited education and training need direct supervision to work effectively as part of the healthcare team.
@toh bot In order for NPs to be considered "copilots", they would have to undergo the same amount of flight training as pilots/MDs. Unfortunately, NPs are only required to receive 3% of the training that MDs receive. Therefore NPs are analagous to flight attendants with 3% of flight training as that of pilots.
Best summarized here:
authenticmedicine.com/2020/02/the-aafa-attacks-reasons-why-flight-attendants-should-be-allowed-to-fly-planes
Hello World 23 states allow NPs to practice independently, so your argument makes zero sense.
@@laurenhills239 Its actually more likely 25 states that have allowed for independent practice. And that is because NPs have argued through lobbying to VASTLY LOWER THE BAR of training required for independent practice. Previously, it was 15,000 hours of training before you could be considered for independent practice. Thanks to excellent NP lobbying, its only 500 hours or 3%. FYI, barbers in the state of Texas are required to have more training hours than nurse practitioners.
Physician and NP education is not just "different" but frankly NP education is VASTLY inferior, both in quantity and quality, to MD education. I can't believe there is even a discussion about this.
Naturopaths can practice independently in many states as well. Are as they competent as physicians? Nope.
In fact, We should extend independent practice to anyone and everyone. I vote for medical assistants to practice independently so that they are able to practice to the full extent of their training.
If patients were truly aware of the education and training differences between physicians and midlevel providers, majority of them would not allow unsupervised midlevel practice.
Just become a crna or a md
Crna is a specific NP
@@jordanlazaro1676 CRNA is an Advanced Practice Nurse, and an NP is an Advanced Practice Nurse, but a CRNA is distinct in title from an NP.
@@flyingturtle2499 current standards are shifting towards mandating a DNP and CRNA is seeing a similar shift with 2025 the set date for CRNAs requiring a DNP or DNAP
I understand, I think, what Jordan was saying, with the suggestion that CRNA is a "nursing practice." Probably better to say "nursing practice," as the term "NP" is presently mostly used to describe nurse practitioners.
I am aware of that shift. Many of the schools have already made the transition to only having doctoral programs. The initial plan, when I was still in nursing school, was to set it for 2015. I do not, however, think that a necessity for the transition from a master's to a doctoral program is actually necessary, or generally even beneficial, for the practice. It pretty much just means more student loans!
This is just a question of pride...
Keep it simple look at scope of practice- if its equal in the area u want - end of story
Nope, its not equal. This is not equal if the training is 3 years residency (70-80 h weeks and structured lectures resident level lectures not med school level) and 4 year med school (top of class only, or having had clinical experiences and extra years after college and did great on top exam of college (MCAT))- again crazy hours each month and year. NP requirements nothing like this. .
@@tomare6479 I know physician education is grueling, but it is offensive and unsupported to imply that physicians (as a whole) are smarter, better at providing medical care, or more dedicated to the profession/patients than DNPs. It sounds like you are in the right profession and are truly passionate about your role. I admire that! It's clear that the future of healthcare will require interprofessional collaboration, so while we may disagree on what to call one another, it's important to remember the primary reason we are in healthcare.
@@JessicaNishikawa I don't see the need to debate you on who is more prepared and better at providing Medical Care. Its more about the group than the individual, which is not a fallacy im willing to ponder with people. There are no unsupported assertions being made as everything is strongly supported. Ask any doctor and ask your colleagues, ask the data. I would love to work together but I am offended when we suggest the only way to get along is by living in a fantasy world.
@@tomare6479 What is your point? If it is that physician and nurse practitioner education is different, then you are right and most people I think would agree. If your point is that physicians are better at doing their job than NPs are at doing their job, then unfortunately you are mistaken and the evidence doesn't support that statement. As you know, if you are in healthcare, evidence is very important and should ground the information we propagate.
Its a question of education and competence.
Note: the genlteman is not the only doctor at the table. They both are.
She’s not a doctor at all
@@randompersonguy3124 .. is that right? Interesting!
@@randompersonguy3124 shes a dnp smarty. what does d stand for
@@lucasdoummar9532 Doctor of NURSE Practicing. She's still a NURSE.
Thank you! She is a doctor also. Smh
No one complains about PAs I think it’s time for the world to admit they think NPs are less educated because it’s a mostly female profession.
I think it's the lack of standardisation in education, and pushing for independent practice. RNs and MDs are also mostly female, but they don't get the flack that NPs do.
@@mujtabaalam5907How is 6-8 years of school and rigorous licensing exams not standardized? That baffles me.
This video is a waste and should be pulled down. Waste of time!!!!!!
fool
Nurse practitioners, are definitely running the show! No comparison
What are you smoking? Physicians run the show.
@@Phil4Jesus I don’t think so, and I’m smoking intelligence, thanks for asking. You need to be stripped of that DNP behind your name, it’s an embarrassment. Assuming you really are one…
@@jeanpierre9539 Delusional much?
@@Phil4Jesus Apparently you are. No DNP I know would talk the way you do. Then again, it is TH-cam and the trolls do come out of nowhere.
@@jeanpierre9539 You may very well run the show with your job, but I am in level I trauma, where the ER docs and trauma surgeons run the show.