Yet I understand his actions because he knows it' s planned presentation, so he figures he's big in that culture concealing the nature...Mcmahon, who is smart guy...but his swaggar comes from tv connection...AND production value...just seems to be a sense that feels a little beyond his public socialization...yet he has the awareness it hits audience effectively... and that's just wild sophistication for that decade
"Politicking in wrestling is over the top, I'm cutting loose and going it alone." "Cool, what are you going to implement first?" "Book myself as champion innit."
My dad grew up in northern Wisconsin and growing up he loved the AWA. He fell out of wrestling after the AWA folded (that and he couldn’t stand Vince) but since I came along and fell in love with wrestling both new and old, me and him will watch old AWA matches and talk about the company and talk about the good the Vern did and the mistakes we felt he made.
@@eddiemoney1093 over the years as wwe got bigger he couldn’t stand Vince and also he didn’t like the gimmicks and storylines Vince was doing either. Basically he didn’t like what wwe became and the product didn’t interest him. That and he knew Vince was kinda killing the territories.
Please keep making these docs and mini docs. They are absolute gold, and there is a wealth of lore and history you can dive into and never be short of. These docs are the reason why I'm subscribed.
Another channel did all this already and this video literally copied the idea... These Brits didn't watch these promotions... They're just desperate for views so theyre copying them
Original Wrestling Documentaries did these already and have covered almost all the territories... This channel is just copying them for views... Bunch of Brits this young didn't watch these promotions and these videos just come across as sone highschool PowerPoint
Because they didn't move on in the times brotha!!! , They should have pulled the trigger , made Hogan a champ and think outside the box brotha!!! , And did what Vince did in the 80s expand bortha!!!!!
@@vampirascoffin870 Yeah my point is that the company also started witht he NWAs reluctance to put the belt on Vergne. I just find it fascinating how Vergne didnt see the parrallel
Unfortunately I remember the days that ESPN aired the AWA when it was basically a promotion of older guys past their prime with a few younger guys that would job to them.I also heard an interview with Stan Hansen where he said that Verne wanted him to screw over Rick Martel which pissed off Stan because he was good friends with Rick and refused.
I'd never heard of a Plot to screw Martel... -- I've seen several sources (long since forgotten where) state that Verne allegedly tried to Pay the Iron Sheik to Break Hogan's Leg as pay back for Hogan leaving... ** He apparently promised Cash and a Championship run if he'd do it, Leave WWF and then come to the AWA.. Sheik refused on Moral grounds and in not trusting Verne to actually make good on either promise... when the story circulated in the grapevine it set a lot of guys' eyes to looking for the door
That was actually my first exposure to the AWA. ESPN Classic would re-air AWA shows and put some of their TV on demand. I was 11 or 12 years old, and my dad had seen the AWA in its hey day, so we bonded over those old broadcasts.
I grew up with the AWA just outside the Twin Cities and my dad brought me to many of the legendary cards in St Paul in the early 80s. Great childhood memories.
Do you remember that there was this white guy with a huge red Afro-type hairdo that used to stand at the side of the ring giving the wrestler the finger the whole time at those civic center monthly cards? I used to go as a kid and it’s just a funny memory I have of them, lol
Yes! There was a segment with Hogan and Mean Gene training in thw Twin Cities area, including my old neighborhood in West Side of St Paul near the Wabasha caves.
@@suicidality2744 "Hulkamania and the 80s wrestling boom period????? No thanks.....I'll put the belt on my son- its Gregamania baby!" - Verne Gagne. Probably.
@@anthonyaman1488 Even if Verne had put the belt on Hogan it's likely Vince would have got him anyway. He could have always paid him more. Even before the era of guaranteed contracts the New York territory was the biggest.
I loved all 3 Superclash cards as a kid . I would run home from school to catch AWA on ESPN at 4 o clock ! Then World Class took that spot and I loved it even more !!
Imagine how different the current landscape of wrestling might be if Verne could've just gotten out of his own way. Quality work as always Ross, these docus are the best content on the channel imo, keep 'em coming.
I think Vern would have brought himself at least a couple of more or a few more years of delayed downfall. The AWA maybe would have went out of business in either 1994 or 95.
Funny enough AWA was my families wrestling being from Nebraska and Wisconsin. I’d hear stories of my great grandma throwing a lighter at Mad Dog and how my grandma hated Flair/Bockwinkle. I say it’s funny because my exposure started with a simulcast of Mania 1 with my uncle I’d ultimately fall in love with NWA/WCW later ECW right up until it’s demise. So my whole family outside my uncle and my grandma’s brother were anti-WWF. I wouldn’t even watch WWF outside of rented tapes until i was in high school because we didn’t have USA network. What’s crazy when i did start watching WWF it was going to college and living with my aunt/uncle. One of the first big PPVs we watched was the night Owen Hart died. I watched that crap live and along with 9/11 it’s one of my most vivid memories.
Sounds kind of like my family. lol. Also from Nebraska and also Iowa. AWA was it. My grandma and mom use to tell me how mad my great grandma woul be at Mad Dog. Often yelling at the TV. My first memory of wrestling were the promos between Hogan and Andre the Giant leading to WMlll when l was six. Later on l remember watching AWA reruns on ESPN but l mostly watched WWF and eventually WCW. Now days l like attending Midwest Wrestling Alliance shows and have kind of started watching some WWE again to see how HHH is doing calling the shots minus Vince. So far so good. lol
This was a very good documentary. Just about all the other documentaries about the AWA make it sound like the AWA went out of business because of Hogan leaving. I saw several sold out AWA shows in Chicago after Hogan departed. Shortly after Wrestle Rock, they lost a huge chunk of their roster, leaving veterans the fans were tired of. They went from The Road Warriors as their top tag team to Buddy Rose and Doug Sommers. They just lost all their star power in a couple of months.
@@catguy00I agree to an extent. They would've made a good transitional championship team, but as it was it took way too long for them to get the belts onto Janetty and Michaels. It should've happened within a couple of months, not a year.
My dad used to watch AWA on TV growing up in south Minnesota. Once I started watching WWE in the mid 2000s he told me about guys like Mad Dog and Ventura from his childhood in the mid late 1970s
Man this really made me appreciate Nick Bockwinkle even more than i already did and get pissed of at Verne Gagne even more than i already was, which both were a stonking lot
That first Hogan-Bockwinkel title match in 1982 is still probably one of my favorite matches of all time. Seeing it on videotape is what made me a fan in the first place. Must have watched it a hundred times.
Same I remember my mom buying me a compilation tape of AWA matches with the title match of Hogan vs Bockwinkle and a tag team match with hogan and Andre the giant against bockwinkle and stevens?
I grew up near Chicago and I was a huge AWA fan. The loudest pop I've ever heard live was the Road Warriors at the (then) Rosemont Horizon. Imagine that level of volume, but instead of 11,000 fans that go now, there were 16,000 because there was no stage to take up room. Every seat in the place was full. I was also at that card at Comiskey Park in 1985. Good times.
Excellent video! Quick and to the point. I was a teenager during the 1980’s and did not understand the admiration for the AWA at the time. I always found the matches were weak since they were performed in a high school gym. The AWA was so important, yet like Blockbuster, they failed to envision greatness. Thank you for helping me realize the foundation of wrestling today.
Under the old territory system the heads of each of the promotions was like a tyrannical king ruling over his domain and because other promoters didn't try to poach your talent or encroach on your turf it gave the promoters all the power and they could pretty much treat talent as poorly, and jerk them around, as much as they wanted... When times changed and Vince came along with the WWF and pretty much just ignored 80+ years of "tradition" most of the promotions just weren't willing to let go of the old territory system and change and adapt - and that was their downfall: they would rather continue to be absolute lord and ruler over nothing than to have to give up any bit of their control or see talent as anything other than dollar bills they can line their wallet with and take advantage of.
I think WWF would still be number one but a close second with either be the NWA maybe WCW with the AWA in third place but still riding high if Verne would have changed with the times.
Ryan Jacobson Yeah but that was more about steroids and secret drug use than physical wear and tear on the body. Back then almost no one worked out, didn’t have the time or was too tired from being beaten to death at work, so if you just lifted weights a little and had a little muscle you were bigger than 99% of the population. If you notice that’s why a lot of the old school wrestlers were just naturally big and tall guys not necessarily muscular. But as the general population got bigger wrestlers had to keep up to stay impressive then hogan came along and basically set a horrible example for what a wrestler should look like and after that if you weren’t taking steroids you weren’t ever going to make it in the wrestling business. So guys started taking the stuff all the time in the 90s and they had to do it secretly or risk being fired, shunned from society for “cheating” or even arrested and thrown in jail. Which means they couldn’t talk to their doctor about it and monitor their health. Back in the day the labor laws weren’t as strict as they are today meaning people could get away with working their employees as hard as they want and mix that with the secrecy of the wrestling business and let’s just say yeah the 90s schedule was probably easier for most wrestlers than the 60s-70s schedule
Verne had tons of charisma. He was still really over even in his old age as a legend, he just didn't belong on the main events which he didn't get. But he built one of the biggest territories on his back. No charisma? Knock it off with that bollocks. Charisma is more than shouting whilst on drugs
Remember as a kid my uncle getting me Pro Wrestling Illustrated and learning about all the federations outside WWF..always remember names like Rick Martel, Larry Zybysco and Nick Bockwinkel as the big AWA stars in the 80s
In the early 2000s I worked on the Carnival in Maine, and I got the chance to meet Mad Dog Vachon. He was quite old, and in a wheelchair, selling memorbabilia in a stall on the midway, but he told me about that match where he got his artery cut. His great grandson was with him, and to make some extra money the kid (don't remember his name - just called him Kiddo most of the time) used to run errands. Mainly running for food and drink for us guys in the Games. He also worked as my balloon boy after about 6 pm and I paid that kid $1500 that week plus tips for Running. Mad Dog told me on the last day of the show he hugely thankful for what I did for the Kid and I was a Stand Up Guy.
Thank you for this. These were wrestlers I grew up watching with many names I haven't heard in years but really brought back so many memories. Hard-core men that looked like guys you wouldn't want to make mad without the Hollywood glitter. Definitely not "pretty boys".
Wow, that was outstanding. Very comprehensive, organized, well researched and well written. So many great images. It would have been nice to see/hear some actual footage here and there, but that would have made it twice as long.
The Crusher was a regular customer in my families Milwaukee bar when i was a kid in the 70’s i have many memories but one sticks out. The Crusher made a seemingly ludicrous on air boast about how much he could bench days later he was challenged (I believe by Packer legend and NFL HOFer Jerry Kramer) weeks later in public The Crusher benched a verified 600lbs.
I've always heard and Crusher even said in a 1984 interview that his best bench was 500 pounds in the late 50s. By the way what was the name of the Milwaukee bar?
As a child of the 70s and 80s, I fondly remember watching WWF, NWA, and AWA. I didn't understand the territory system, but I liked all three major promotions. I'VE seen NWA attempting to make a comeback, and I'd love to see AWA do the same. They may never challenge the WWE for the top wrestling promotion, buy I like the idea of having more options, such as AEW. (I never could get behind TNA Impact...I'm sorry, I really TRIED!)
TNA started including a few Wrestling Veterans...then a few more...then a few more...until TNA, at least eventually, lost a lot of the very identity, that they'd been founded on!
AWA had all of Hogan's rock and wrestling era rivals pretty much. Vince just brought them all over and business went nuts. Also the wrestlerock rumble is comedy gold.
@@1_Fish.2_Fish.Red_Fish. so did 90% of wrestlers back then and today...lets make somthing clear . juicing doesnt magically make you jacked. you still have to work hard to create a body like young scott hall had..juice makes it easier then not juicing, but you still have to work hard and work even harder to keep it during your 10 weeks off
Bill Eadie told a story about Verne Gagne wanting him to screw over Rick Martel when Martel was the AWA Champion. He had said that Verne wanted him to pull a swerve on Martel without him knowing & he was going to be the champion. Eadie also said Verne wanted him to work for All Japan, in which he was going to be making a $1,000 a week but Verne wanted a kickback of $400. Eadie told him NO on the Martel deal because Martel was a friend of his & he also told him why would I want to work at AJPW for $1,000 when I'm working for New Japan bringing home $5,000 a week? Eadie said he got up & left after that
Thank you for this video. I grew up in rural Minnesota and watching All Star Wrestling with my grandpa is what got me into my lifelong fandom of Professional Wrestling.
If Verne was alive today i would thank him for providing our family with a lot of great great memories. We couldn't wait to watch it on TV once a week and would all gather around eating potato chips and drinking root beer. And about 3 maybe 4 times a year we would head to the arena to watch the matches. The 2 big shows in our house were 'All in the Family" and AWA wrestling. I like to say something nice about Verne instead of being negative. My personal favorite AWA wrestler of all time was Ray "The Crippler Stevens" damn what a worker and funny as hell on the Mic. R.I.P Verne & Ray
Winnipeg was a Notorious AWA town, running the winnipeg arena was a regular occurance for AWA, we were jsut out of stampedes reach and by that we got all the greats listed here and then some, in addition AEW running canada life center last month was the FIRST non wwe show to run this town in 36 or 38 years if my math does us correctly Truly magnificent we honored the territory wrestlers that built this town, which inspired a generation which lead to a crop of what could the 2 best wrestling prospect's from the prairies In Chris Jericho and Kenny Omega and honestly the Old AWA rings are still used for locals shows with Primos wrestling owning one of them
I remember in the late 80s as a kid reading in one of the wrestling mags: "The NWA is the most realistic, the WWF is the most fun, and the AWA is a snooze-fest." Spot on.
Like the WWE or not, there is a reason why they have endured at the top of the hill for decades, and it's because they know how to evolve their product with the times and tastes of their audience. Yeah, the WWE has stumbled at times, but you can look at many of the fallen rival promotions and most like the AWA share the same common story. They became stagnant and refused to change while WWE shifted their product to suit the tastes of the audience.
AWA was my introduction into pro wrestling..I use to watch jobber squash matches on t.v. every sunday morning..And i use to go to events with my dad..I remember going to Comiskey park in Chicago The main events were Baron Von Raske vs. Mr. Saito..And The Road Warriors vs. Dick the Bruiser and Crusher.
The AWA's downfall began the moment Verne Gagne retired from professional wrestling. The entire premise of the AWA's existence was that Verne Gagne should be World Champion. With Verne retired, and the realization that Greg was not going to make a viable World Champion, there was no reason for the promotion to exist. So, if you think about it, the amount of time it lasted after Verne retired is actually quite impressive.
I love when someone new discovers the old AWA and wants to educate others on something that has 100s of vis\deos on the subject and documentaries on it too
Haven't watched all of it yet, but you better have Karateka/Nunchuck swingin/Sunglasses Living Legend Larry Zybysko included. He was my favorite version of Larry Legend. My second was Dangerous Alliance Larry Z!
Thanks for this video. It does explain a lot especially the reasoning behind not giving the title to Hogan (with the NJPW vs. AJPW background and marketing issues). Also I wasn't aware that AWA actually ruled the US wrestling market in the late 70s and early 80s.
That last sentence is very subjective. The NWA probably had the biggest clout in that era, with Georgia Championship Wrestling being aired across the continent on TBS, while Mid-Atlantic (JCP), CWF, Mid-South, Continental, and Big Time/WCCW were also popular outside their home territories. A lot of the AWA talent in the video were more famous from their NWA days. And really, the NWA wasn't a promotion like the WWF and AWA, it was a conglomerate of independent promotions that stretched across the U.S. and parts of Canada for decades.
Revisionist history can be funny. I was 12 years old in 1986. At the time I found the territory presentation of wrestling far more realistic and the WWF, essentially cartoonish. Perhaps that was because I'd lived most of my life to that point in the local TV range of Crockett or Jarrett and was adapted to southern wrasslin. As my family got cable I was exposed to AWA and WCCW, sadly I didn't see Mid-south /UWF until it had been absorbed by Crockett, but in any case I found the in-ring product of non-WWF brands as superior. I wasn't interested in ice cream bars, rubber dolls or cartoons. I wanted violence and blood. In the end I stayed with Crockett/WCW until the bitter end. Today, I don't even bother with the modern products. I watch retrospectives like this and vintage matches...and miss the days when wrestling at least pretended to be real.
I hear ya. I was 14 in '85 when I moved to upper South Carolina. Found Crockett NWA on TV every Saturday and Sunday morning. I have the WWF network now but hardly ever watch anything after 2001.
EXACT same. I grew up watching EVERY federation could find on TV. WWF just came up with bigger shows. But territories let you watch top guys wrestle bit more on tv or they at least made appearances. Silliness & gimmicks and trash stories have kind of ruined wrestling. Also just the excessive non selling of old finishers, 1 million superkicks and everyone able to do top rope.
Verne Gagne's earlier title reigns can be forgiven, but his decision to put the title on himself that final time in his 50s then retire after beating Bockwinkel was inexcusable vanity. He shouldn't have been champion at that age, and he should have put Bockwinkel over clean on the way out.
If Verne had put the belt on The Gobbledy Gooker he could have stopped Hulkamania in its tracks. Him not doing that is probably the biggest mistake in wrestling history😔
"I've been in this industry 35 years, born and bred Minnesotan. I also get 90% a 100% of the time. Now excuse me while I go have a lamb chop dinner" -Lapsed Verne
I love this type of content and I look forward to watching more. If I could offer one piece of constructive criticism, it would be on the quickfire presentation/editing. I know the video is already long at ~40 minutes, but I would prefer each line to sink in properly before quickly moving on to the next. That may just be a personal thing for me due to the way I process information and it is a minor gripe, because otherwise I really enjoyed it.
I could be incorrect, I think the talent departures of AWA to WWE was only superceded by the majority of the All Japan Pro Wrestling talent going to Pro Wrestling NOAH. What's the common theme, talent really not liking management so much they are willing to up and leave. Mrs. Baba and Verne Gagne had similar personality traits in terms of they thought what was best for business and messing with talent's pay.
I remember watching AWA in its later years and being like "what the heck is this?" Though MSG would show old AWA matches so it was interesting to watch a match and be like "He looks like a younger Mr. Perfect."
I hate to say it but the AWA product by the 1980s did look primitive. Especially compared WWF’s/WWE‘s. Even Jim Crocketts NWA/mid Atlantic territory as well as world class looked better at that time!
AWA had it all from deep talent rosters along with international players as well, but the leadership from the top got too greedy catering to their favorites past stars rather than giving the audience what they want by giving the young stars of tomorrow a chance, kind of similar to WcW in some ways. Verne was without question his own worst enemy!!
Being from Omaha Nebraska the AWA was a main stay growing up Baron Van Raschke and Mad Dog Vachon are Icons I talked to Mad Dog many times after he retired from the ring Mad Dog was super nice and funny RIP Mad Dog I even had a great conversation with with Chavo Guerrero about watching his dad Chavo Sr and his uncle Hector wrestle in the AWA when I was growing up as a kid I have nothing but great memories about the AWA
Crusher said that he got more money for one off appearances for Vince when they came to Minnesota than he ever got with Verne. The promos with Crusher and Hogan are insane
The biggest downfall of the AWA was that Verne Gagne was a egomaniac. He made himself Champion like nine times when he didn't deserve to be Champion even once.
Really cool y'all started doing these mini docs! Plenty of territories to cover..will be great to cover and study for you guys..and for us to watch. Keep up the great work. Where can I buy a shit?
Billy Robinson had a Maneuver that started as an invitation for a test of strength, and after a few lightning quick twists and chops the heel ended up on his back with a torn hamstring. Was there ever a name given to that maneuver? How come it has never been duplicated by any other wrestler from any promotion in any era? I contend it might have been too difficult to duplicate as it happened so fast no one else could figure it out.
The Georgia wrestling wars video y’all are eventually gonna do will be grand. Also recommend looking into Texas wrestling history, the promotion wars there are quite the stories
No wonder why Hogan became that backstage burying machine, considering how BS was his treatment in AWA. He learned the hard way how to be and stay on the top of the food chain.
Gagne was his own worst enemy. He could never get past his own ego and greed to do what was right for the company.
Also, he could not see that his son was no wrestler.
Yet I understand his actions because he knows it' s planned presentation, so he figures he's big in that culture concealing the nature...Mcmahon, who is smart guy...but his swaggar comes from tv connection...AND production value...just seems to be a sense that feels a little beyond his public socialization...yet he has the awareness it hits audience effectively... and that's just wild sophistication for that decade
@@p.d.l7023 A lot of the promoters had that problem. Remember Eric Watts and Mike Von Erich?
You nailed it. He could not see the big picture.
He just wouldn't do "What's Best for Business"
"Politicking in wrestling is over the top, I'm cutting loose and going it alone."
"Cool, what are you going to implement first?"
"Book myself as champion innit."
Eric Bischoff did the same formula in WCW as Verne did.
The only difference: he gave older guys creative control especially Hogan.
"Potlucking in wrestling is pure chaos
Fair enough, but like the narrator said, it wasn't that uncommon for that to happen back then. Now, 10 total reigns as champion is a different story.
@@Krendall2at least its not as bad Carlos Carlon winning the WWC Universal Heavyweight Championship for about 20 Times
My dad grew up in northern Wisconsin and growing up he loved the AWA. He fell out of wrestling after the AWA folded (that and he couldn’t stand Vince) but since I came along and fell in love with wrestling both new and old, me and him will watch old AWA matches and talk about the company and talk about the good the Vern did and the mistakes we felt he made.
I don't know why Vince would be the deciding factor there. He primarily played the role of interviewer in those days
@@eddiemoney1093 over the years as wwe got bigger he couldn’t stand Vince and also he didn’t like the gimmicks and storylines Vince was doing either. Basically he didn’t like what wwe became and the product didn’t interest him. That and he knew Vince was kinda killing the territories.
Please keep making these docs and mini docs.
They are absolute gold, and there is a wealth of lore and history you can dive into and never be short of.
These docs are the reason why I'm subscribed.
Another channel did all this already and this video literally copied the idea... These Brits didn't watch these promotions... They're just desperate for views so theyre copying them
Original Wrestling Documentaries did these already and have covered almost all the territories... This channel is just copying them for views... Bunch of Brits this young didn't watch these promotions and these videos just come across as sone highschool PowerPoint
@@ToxicAvengerCleanYourMind ok
'Click next video'
"Verne Gagne was less Mos Def, and more Probably Deaf." That line got an automatic thumbs up and a solid chuckle.
Lmao.....😂😂😂😂
I gotta say though, "Less Mos Def and more Mostly Deaf" was right there
I love these documentaries. Please keep them up.
Verne Gagne was his own worst enemy later on,
Indeed. Years later, Eric Bischoff made the same mistake as Verne did.
The difference is: Bischoff gave them (the older guys) creative control.
I do find it fascinating how a companies origin and the start of their decline can be linked so well to a wrestler not being given the world title.
Because they didn't move on in the times brotha!!! , They should have pulled the trigger , made Hogan a champ and think outside the box brotha!!! , And did what Vince did in the 80s expand bortha!!!!!
@@vampirascoffin870 Yeah my point is that the company also started witht he NWAs reluctance to put the belt on Vergne. I just find it fascinating how Vergne didnt see the parrallel
If Virgil got the wcw belt it would still be around today
@@VirgilAhmedJohnsonwerethebestw Wasn't he called "Vincent" in WCW?
@@majordbag2 Yes he was Vincent but he also used the groundbreaking gimmick of Curly Bill which many superstars today borrowed from
After how good the AJPW and FMW rise and falls were, I jumped into this video immediately
Seconded.
I grew up with Rick Martell, A young Scott Hall and Curt Hennig, The Midnight Rockers. Stan “ The Lariat “ Hanson. Such great memories
Same here! I have a near complete set of the AWA action figures, too.
AWA was the promotion my dad and his brothers watched as kids in the 70s. He still talks about The Crusher sometimes.
Da one, Da only, Da Crusher!💪💪
Good times
Unfortunately I remember the days that ESPN aired the AWA when it was basically a promotion of older guys past their prime with a few younger guys that would job to them.I also heard an interview with Stan Hansen where he said that Verne wanted him to screw over Rick Martel which pissed off Stan because he was good friends with Rick and refused.
I'd never heard of a Plot to screw Martel...
-- I've seen several sources (long since forgotten where) state that Verne allegedly tried to Pay the Iron Sheik to Break Hogan's Leg as pay back for Hogan leaving...
** He apparently promised Cash and a Championship run if he'd do it, Leave WWF and then come to the AWA..
Sheik refused on Moral grounds and in not trusting Verne to actually make good on either promise... when the story circulated in the grapevine it set a lot of guys' eyes to looking for the door
That was actually my first exposure to the AWA. ESPN Classic would re-air AWA shows and put some of their TV on demand. I was 11 or 12 years old, and my dad had seen the AWA in its hey day, so we bonded over those old broadcasts.
@@gabepollock1641 First match I ever saw was Rick Martel vs some big guy I can't think of but it was the BEST match I ever saw
@@hartiwanger9176 Was it Terry Gordy? A big curly haired guy?
@@lubbulz1 Maybe. Cant find that match on TH-cam
I grew up with the AWA just outside the Twin Cities and my dad brought me to many of the legendary cards in St Paul in the early 80s. Great childhood memories.
Same here. I met the Baron at the Apple Valley zoo. I voted for Jesse for Governor 😂
Do you remember that there was this white guy with a huge red Afro-type hairdo that used to stand at the side of the ring giving the wrestler the finger the whole time at those civic center monthly cards? I used to go as a kid and it’s just a funny memory I have of them, lol
How about the guy called Ricky the midget always at ringside ?
Yes! There was a segment with Hogan and Mean Gene training in thw Twin Cities area, including my old neighborhood in West Side of St Paul near the Wabasha caves.
Anytime you regret poor descisions in life, just remember:
Verne Gagne turned down Hulkamania.
Hulkamania actually started in the AWA. Verne just wasn't smart enough to give Hogan the ball and let him run with it.
@@suicidality2744 "Hulkamania and the 80s wrestling boom period????? No thanks.....I'll put the belt on my son- its Gregamania baby!" - Verne Gagne. Probably.
@@anthonyaman1488 Even if Verne had put the belt on Hogan it's likely Vince would have got him anyway. He could have always paid him more. Even before the era of guaranteed contracts the New York territory was the biggest.
Verne would have regretted it either way, Hogan was just too self centered to save that company let alone any.
😊
I loved all 3 Superclash cards as a kid . I would run home from school to catch AWA on ESPN at 4 o clock ! Then World Class took that spot and I loved it even more !!
Bockwinkel and Stevens was a marvelous team!!!
The cream of the crop of the Heenan family
One of The Great Tag Teams in Professional Wrestling History and ahead of their time.
Probably the single best tag team in wrestling history before the Road Warriors.
They were...yep...Nick & the Crippler.
Tremendously impressive video, Ross!! Great job, mate!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Obviously, you care not of the many incorrect errors in the history as it is told in this video.
@@georgeschire3590 What are some inaccuracies? Hogan's contract with njpw seems to be the key info
Imagine how different the current landscape of wrestling might be if Verne could've just gotten out of his own way.
Quality work as always Ross, these docus are the best content on the channel imo, keep 'em coming.
I think Vern would have brought himself at least a couple of more or a few more years of delayed downfall. The AWA maybe would have went out of business in either 1994 or 95.
Thanks for the upload of this video. Houston Wrestling would sometimes have the AWA champion wrestle at the Sam Houston Coliseum. Great Memories.
Funny enough AWA was my families wrestling being from Nebraska and Wisconsin. I’d hear stories of my great grandma throwing a lighter at Mad Dog and how my grandma hated Flair/Bockwinkle. I say it’s funny because my exposure started with a simulcast of Mania 1 with my uncle I’d ultimately fall in love with NWA/WCW later ECW right up until it’s demise. So my whole family outside my uncle and my grandma’s brother were anti-WWF. I wouldn’t even watch WWF outside of rented tapes until i was in high school because we didn’t have USA network.
What’s crazy when i did start watching WWF it was going to college and living with my aunt/uncle. One of the first big PPVs we watched was the night Owen Hart died. I watched that crap live and along with 9/11 it’s one of my most vivid memories.
Sounds kind of like my family. lol. Also from Nebraska and also Iowa. AWA was it. My grandma and mom use to tell me how mad my great grandma woul be at Mad Dog. Often yelling at the TV.
My first memory of wrestling were the promos between Hogan and Andre the Giant leading to WMlll when l was six. Later on l remember watching AWA reruns on ESPN but l mostly watched WWF and eventually WCW. Now days l like attending Midwest Wrestling Alliance shows and have kind of started watching some WWE again to see how HHH is doing calling the shots minus Vince. So far so good. lol
I was a huge fan of AWA, even in the final years. I preferred their matches compared to the WWF constant televised squash matches
This was a very good documentary. Just about all the other documentaries about the AWA make it sound like the AWA went out of business because of Hogan leaving. I saw several sold out AWA shows in Chicago after Hogan departed. Shortly after Wrestle Rock, they lost a huge chunk of their roster, leaving veterans the fans were tired of. They went from The Road Warriors as their top tag team to Buddy Rose and Doug Sommers. They just lost all their star power in a couple of months.
Even as a young kid I couldn't comprehend Rose and Sommers being tag team champs.
@@catguy00I agree to an extent. They would've made a good transitional championship team, but as it was it took way too long for them to get the belts onto Janetty and Michaels. It should've happened within a couple of months, not a year.
After the Vice Tales from the Territories, I REALLY wish I was 20 years older to see these stars in person. Ah well, fun to learn more about awa
My dad used to watch AWA on TV growing up in south Minnesota. Once I started watching WWE in the mid 2000s he told me about guys like Mad Dog and Ventura from his childhood in the mid late 1970s
That picture of Scott Hall was just too sweet!
Man this really made me appreciate Nick Bockwinkle even more than i already did and get pissed of at Verne Gagne even more than i already was, which both were a stonking lot
That first Hogan-Bockwinkel title match in 1982 is still probably one of my favorite matches of all time. Seeing it on videotape is what made me a fan in the first place. Must have watched it a hundred times.
back when hogan could actually work!
@@MrZappaman420Hogan was a different breed in the AWA vs later in the WWF!
Yeah, Bockwinkel carried him the whole match.
Same I remember my mom buying me a compilation tape of AWA matches with the title match of Hogan vs Bockwinkle and a tag team match with hogan and Andre the giant against bockwinkle and stevens?
@@mr.mr.4772 In his prime, Hogan could go. He arguably could still go in his early 40s, when he wanted at least (which in America was never)
I grew up near Chicago and I was a huge AWA fan. The loudest pop I've ever heard live was the Road Warriors at the (then) Rosemont Horizon. Imagine that level of volume, but instead of 11,000 fans that go now, there were 16,000 because there was no stage to take up room. Every seat in the place was full. I was also at that card at Comiskey Park in 1985. Good times.
Awesome job on the video Ross and everyone behind the scenes working on the video
Excellent video! Quick and to the point. I was a teenager during the 1980’s and did not understand the admiration for the AWA at the time. I always found the matches were weak since they were performed in a high school gym. The AWA was so important, yet like Blockbuster, they failed to envision greatness. Thank you for helping me realize the foundation of wrestling today.
Under the old territory system the heads of each of the promotions was like a tyrannical king ruling over his domain and because other promoters didn't try to poach your talent or encroach on your turf it gave the promoters all the power and they could pretty much treat talent as poorly, and jerk them around, as much as they wanted...
When times changed and Vince came along with the WWF and pretty much just ignored 80+ years of "tradition" most of the promotions just weren't willing to let go of the old territory system and change and adapt - and that was their downfall: they would rather continue to be absolute lord and ruler over nothing than to have to give up any bit of their control or see talent as anything other than dollar bills they can line their wallet with and take advantage of.
I think WWF would still be number one but a close second with either be the NWA maybe WCW with the AWA in third place but still riding high if Verne would have changed with the times.
Considering how many 1990's era wrestlers have died at a relatively young age, I don't think the territory days were that hard on the talent.
Ryan Jacobson Yeah but that was more about steroids and secret drug use than physical wear and tear on the body. Back then almost no one worked out, didn’t have the time or was too tired from being beaten to death at work, so if you just lifted weights a little and had a little muscle you were bigger than 99% of the population. If you notice that’s why a lot of the old school wrestlers were just naturally big and tall guys not necessarily muscular. But as the general population got bigger wrestlers had to keep up to stay impressive then hogan came along and basically set a horrible example for what a wrestler should look like and after that if you weren’t taking steroids you weren’t ever going to make it in the wrestling business. So guys started taking the stuff all the time in the 90s and they had to do it secretly or risk being fired, shunned from society for “cheating” or even arrested and thrown in jail. Which means they couldn’t talk to their doctor about it and monitor their health.
Back in the day the labor laws weren’t as strict as they are today meaning people could get away with working their employees as hard as they want and mix that with the secrecy of the wrestling business and let’s just say yeah the 90s schedule was probably easier for most wrestlers than the 60s-70s schedule
Vern "No Charisma" Gagne's ego killed the AWA.
Verne had tons of charisma. He was still really over even in his old age as a legend, he just didn't belong on the main events which he didn't get. But he built one of the biggest territories on his back. No charisma? Knock it off with that bollocks. Charisma is more than shouting whilst on drugs
@@MC-mf7zj i disagree
Remember as a kid my uncle getting me Pro Wrestling Illustrated and learning about all the federations outside WWF..always remember names like Rick Martel, Larry Zybysco and Nick Bockwinkel as the big AWA stars in the 80s
In the early 2000s I worked on the Carnival in Maine, and I got the chance to meet Mad Dog Vachon. He was quite old, and in a wheelchair, selling memorbabilia in a stall on the midway, but he told me about that match where he got his artery cut.
His great grandson was with him, and to make some extra money the kid (don't remember his name - just called him Kiddo most of the time) used to run errands. Mainly running for food and drink for us guys in the Games. He also worked as my balloon boy after about 6 pm and I paid that kid $1500 that week plus tips for Running.
Mad Dog told me on the last day of the show he hugely thankful for what I did for the Kid and I was a Stand Up Guy.
Thank you for this. These were wrestlers I grew up watching with many names I haven't heard in years but really brought back so many memories. Hard-core men that looked like guys you wouldn't want to make mad without the Hollywood glitter. Definitely not "pretty boys".
Would love to see a video like this done on the USWA
Wow, that was outstanding. Very comprehensive, organized, well researched and well written. So many great images. It would have been nice to see/hear some actual footage here and there, but that would have made it twice as long.
The Crusher was a regular customer in my families Milwaukee bar when i was a kid in the 70’s i have many memories but one sticks out. The Crusher made a seemingly ludicrous on air boast about how much he could bench days later he was challenged (I believe by Packer legend and NFL HOFer Jerry Kramer) weeks later in public The Crusher benched a verified 600lbs.
I've always heard and Crusher even said in a 1984 interview that his best bench was 500 pounds in the late 50s. By the way what was the name of the Milwaukee bar?
As a child of the 70s and 80s, I fondly remember watching WWF, NWA, and AWA. I didn't understand the territory system, but I liked all three major promotions. I'VE seen NWA attempting to make a comeback, and I'd love to see AWA do the same. They may never challenge the WWE for the top wrestling promotion, buy I like the idea of having more options, such as AEW. (I never could get behind TNA Impact...I'm sorry, I really TRIED!)
I like tna more then aew to which i only seen one show either way i will always be a wwe guy for life
TNA started including a few Wrestling Veterans...then a few more...then a few more...until TNA, at least eventually, lost a lot of the very identity, that they'd been founded on!
Vince McMahon I thought bought the rights to AWA?
@@aliensyndrome4280He did. He owns the complete library and video tapes of the AWA.
AWA had all of Hogan's rock and wrestling era rivals pretty much. Vince just brought them all over and business went nuts. Also the wrestlerock rumble is comedy gold.
i always forget and am amazed how stacked scott hall was back in the awa days...he was huge
I thought it was Dan Severn!😂
Not to mention the mustache Scott could have been mistaken for either Thomas Magnum or Magnum T.A. Terry Allen
Lotta junk to the bottom cheek.
@@1_Fish.2_Fish.Red_Fish. so did 90% of wrestlers back then and today...lets make somthing clear . juicing doesnt magically make you jacked. you still have to work hard to create a body like young scott hall had..juice makes it easier then not juicing, but you still have to work hard and work even harder to keep it during your 10 weeks off
@@dustincongello5802 Jilly Juice gets you rock hard!
Bill Eadie told a story about Verne Gagne wanting him to screw over Rick Martel when Martel was the AWA Champion. He had said that Verne wanted him to pull a swerve on Martel without him knowing & he was going to be the champion. Eadie also said Verne wanted him to work for All Japan, in which he was going to be making a $1,000 a week but Verne wanted a kickback of $400. Eadie told him NO on the Martel deal because Martel was a friend of his & he also told him why would I want to work at AJPW for $1,000 when I'm working for New Japan bringing home $5,000 a week? Eadie said he got up & left after that
Thank you for this video. I grew up in rural Minnesota and watching All Star Wrestling with my grandpa is what got me into my lifelong fandom of Professional Wrestling.
My first wrestling VHS tapes were AWA tapes. I loved them!!! My mother bought them for me. Great wrestling!!!
From 1985?
I appreciate docs like these, great job. Keep them coming boys!
If the AWA would have made Hogan champion, no one else would have been able to touch them. Not even Vince.
I disagree. Vince would have been relentless and ruthless more to get Hogan because Verne would not change with the times still.
There was no stopping Vince's ruthless aggression!
@@attiepollard7847you know competition makes Vince better
Only if then Verne also agreed to give Hogan the money he wanted.
I sometimes forget that Bobby Heenan was a wrestler as well as a manager rolled into one during the 1960s and 1970s
Most of the time Bobby would wrestle in Chicago and Indiana. Then would manage in Minneapolis
He wasn't called the brain for nothing
If Verne was alive today i would thank him for providing our family with a lot of great great memories. We couldn't wait to watch it on TV once a week and would all gather around eating potato chips and drinking root beer. And about 3 maybe 4 times a year we would head to the arena to watch the matches. The 2 big shows in our house were 'All in the Family" and AWA wrestling. I like to say something nice about Verne instead of being negative. My personal favorite AWA wrestler of all time was Ray "The Crippler Stevens" damn what a worker and funny as hell on the Mic. R.I.P Verne & Ray
Winnipeg was a Notorious AWA town, running the winnipeg arena was a regular occurance for AWA, we were jsut out of stampedes reach and by that we got all the greats listed here and then some, in addition AEW running canada life center last month was the FIRST non wwe show to run this town in 36 or 38 years if my math does us correctly
Truly magnificent we honored the territory wrestlers that built this town, which inspired a generation which lead to a crop of what could the 2 best wrestling prospect's from the prairies In Chris Jericho and Kenny Omega and honestly the Old AWA rings are still used for locals shows with Primos wrestling owning one of them
I remember in the late 80s as a kid reading in one of the wrestling mags:
"The NWA is the most realistic, the WWF is the most fun, and the AWA is a snooze-fest." Spot on.
Same here. AWA was treated as a punchline in the late 80s...
I remember the same. As a kid I always preferred nwa/wcw over wwf because I thought it was real.
Like the WWE or not, there is a reason why they have endured at the top of the hill for decades, and it's because they know how to evolve their product with the times and tastes of their audience.
Yeah, the WWE has stumbled at times, but you can look at many of the fallen rival promotions and most like the AWA share the same common story.
They became stagnant and refused to change while WWE shifted their product to suit the tastes of the audience.
No, it is mainly because it has been a monopoly for decades.
AWA was my introduction into pro wrestling..I use to watch jobber squash matches on t.v. every sunday morning..And i use to go to events with my dad..I remember going to Comiskey park in Chicago The main events were Baron Von Raske vs. Mr. Saito..And The Road Warriors vs. Dick the Bruiser and Crusher.
You went to Superclash 1?
The AWA's downfall began the moment Verne Gagne retired from professional wrestling.
The entire premise of the AWA's existence was that Verne Gagne should be World Champion.
With Verne retired, and the realization that Greg was not going to make a viable World Champion, there was no reason for the promotion to exist. So, if you think about it, the amount of time it lasted after Verne retired is actually quite impressive.
Honestly though back in the 80s AWA, NWA, World Class, WWF….as a little kid with basic cable. I had a great time watching them all!
I love when someone new discovers the old AWA and wants to educate others on something that has 100s of vis\deos on the subject and documentaries on it too
It's interesting.
Gagne getting in his own way to the point of financial ruin
Haven't watched all of it yet, but you better have Karateka/Nunchuck swingin/Sunglasses Living Legend Larry Zybysko included. He was my favorite version of Larry Legend. My second was Dangerous Alliance Larry Z!
I will praise these videos every single time. The level of effort put into them in amazing and shows why Cultaholic is the best wrestling channel.
And every time you praise this particular video on the AWA, you'll be giving to praise to a video that is factually incorrect with much of the story.
Thanks for this video. It does explain a lot especially the reasoning behind not giving the title to Hogan (with the NJPW vs. AJPW background and marketing issues). Also I wasn't aware that AWA actually ruled the US wrestling market in the late 70s and early 80s.
That last sentence is very subjective. The NWA probably had the biggest clout in that era, with Georgia Championship Wrestling being aired across the continent on TBS, while Mid-Atlantic (JCP), CWF, Mid-South, Continental, and Big Time/WCCW were also popular outside their home territories. A lot of the AWA talent in the video were more famous from their NWA days. And really, the NWA wasn't a promotion like the WWF and AWA, it was a conglomerate of independent promotions that stretched across the U.S. and parts of Canada for decades.
Another awesome deep dive into wrestling history with Ross
This Ross guy talks fast, but his account of history of the AWA, is void of many actual facts.
It really is shameful how Gagne screwed his own company for his own ego, i.e. forfeiting the championship rather than dropping it in the ring.
Like Jackie Moon in "Semi-Pro" with the Flint Tropics.
If Verne kept his Talent like Hogan, AWA would have been a Competitor to the WWF.
Amazing work as always guys hope there will be a Jim Crockett promotion history at some point
I always wondered why I never found the AWA interesting or appealing.
This video does a fine job on explaining why... Well. done!
Revisionist history can be funny. I was 12 years old in 1986. At the time I found the territory presentation of wrestling far more realistic and the WWF, essentially cartoonish. Perhaps that was because I'd lived most of my life to that point in the local TV range of Crockett or Jarrett and was adapted to southern wrasslin. As my family got cable I was exposed to AWA and WCCW, sadly I didn't see Mid-south /UWF until it had been absorbed by Crockett, but in any case I found the in-ring product of non-WWF brands as superior. I wasn't interested in ice cream bars, rubber dolls or cartoons. I wanted violence and blood. In the end I stayed with Crockett/WCW until the bitter end. Today, I don't even bother with the modern products. I watch retrospectives like this and vintage matches...and miss the days when wrestling at least pretended to be real.
I hear ya. I was 14 in '85 when I moved to upper South Carolina. Found Crockett NWA on TV every Saturday and Sunday morning. I have the WWF network now but hardly ever watch anything after 2001.
EXACT same. I grew up watching EVERY federation could find on TV. WWF just came up with bigger shows. But territories let you watch top guys wrestle bit more on tv or they at least made appearances. Silliness & gimmicks and trash stories have kind of ruined wrestling. Also just the excessive non selling of old finishers, 1 million superkicks and everyone able to do top rope.
@@robcressey7228you love Val Venus huh?
Hogan's contractual situation with njpw at this specific period, is really layered instance...
The only reason Slaughter stuck around is because he was making bank off of GI Joe merch and figs
I had a Sgt. Slaughter G.I. Joe.
When it comes to the Crusher there is a event every year in Milwaukee called Crusherfest
Not putting the belt on Hogan was Verne's biggest mistake.
Verne Gagne's earlier title reigns can be forgiven, but his decision to put the title on himself that final time in his 50s then retire after beating Bockwinkel was inexcusable vanity. He shouldn't have been champion at that age, and he should have put Bockwinkel over clean on the way out.
If Verne had put the belt on The Gobbledy Gooker he could have stopped Hulkamania in its tracks. Him not doing that is probably the biggest mistake in wrestling history😔
"I've been in this industry 35 years, born and bred Minnesotan. I also get 90% a 100% of the time. Now excuse me while I go have a lamb chop dinner"
-Lapsed Verne
Very well done documentary! Thank you!
I love this type of content and I look forward to watching more.
If I could offer one piece of constructive criticism, it would be on the quickfire presentation/editing. I know the video is already long at ~40 minutes, but I would prefer each line to sink in properly before quickly moving on to the next.
That may just be a personal thing for me due to the way I process information and it is a minor gripe, because otherwise I really enjoyed it.
28:35 Nick Bockwinkel and Larry Zbysko were the most in tune in the entire Wrestle Rock Rumble.
I could be incorrect, I think the talent departures of AWA to WWE was only superceded by the majority of the All Japan Pro Wrestling talent going to Pro Wrestling NOAH. What's the common theme, talent really not liking management so much they are willing to up and leave. Mrs. Baba and Verne Gagne had similar personality traits in terms of they thought what was best for business and messing with talent's pay.
A brilliant video, I've never seen it laid out like this.
The owner put his son like he was a good wrestler before everyone
This is the best analysis of the AWA I've watched. Thank you.
I remember watching AWA in its later years and being like "what the heck is this?" Though MSG would show old AWA matches so it was interesting to watch a match and be like "He looks like a younger Mr. Perfect."
Remember the WCCW reruns on ESPN? Is that Warrior???
I hate to say it but the AWA product by the 1980s did look primitive. Especially compared WWF’s/WWE‘s. Even Jim Crocketts NWA/mid Atlantic territory as well as world class looked better at that time!
AWA had it all from deep talent rosters along with international players as well, but the leadership from the top got too greedy catering to their favorites past stars rather than giving the audience what they want by giving the young stars of tomorrow a chance, kind of similar to WcW in some ways. Verne was without question his own worst enemy!!
Being from Omaha Nebraska the AWA was a main stay growing up Baron Van Raschke and Mad Dog Vachon are Icons I talked to Mad Dog many times after he retired from the ring Mad Dog was super nice and funny RIP Mad Dog I even had a great conversation with with Chavo Guerrero about watching his dad Chavo Sr and his uncle Hector wrestle in the AWA when I was growing up as a kid I have nothing but great memories about the AWA
Really hope y’all do All Japan Women’s PW next in this series. Always hear about it but never seen the history.
Geez - Verne’s last championship run ended when he was 55 years old. Wow! Very impressive.
great video most detailed about the AWA that I have seen
Wwf left the nwa decades before vince jr owned it. Bruno became champ for the first time in 1963 and the wwf was already out of the nwa by then
Vern Hogan. He held a lot of talent down
8:56 He was the first part time world champion.
Verne Gagne had the reputation at being notoriously cheap. This trait usually come back to bite those who practice it.
Can you imagine the powerhouse it would have been if Jim Crockett and AWA were still together when the wcw was founded
Crusher said that he got more money for one off appearances for Vince when they came to Minnesota than he ever got with Verne. The promos with Crusher and Hogan are insane
Cigar anyone?
I was a kid in Minneapolis in the 70s and we all loved the AWA in those days. My favorite Wrestler was the Crusher
The biggest downfall of the AWA was that Verne Gagne was a egomaniac. He made himself Champion like nine times when he didn't deserve to be Champion even once.
Really cool y'all started doing these mini docs! Plenty of territories to cover..will be great to cover and study for you guys..and for us to watch. Keep up the great work. Where can I buy a shit?
Billy Robinson had a Maneuver that started as an invitation for a test of strength, and after a few lightning quick twists and chops the heel ended up on his back with a torn hamstring. Was there ever a name given to that maneuver? How come it has never been duplicated by any other wrestler from any promotion in any era? I contend it might have been too difficult to duplicate as it happened so fast no one else could figure it out.
although it verne put the belt on himself, he was YOUNGER than chris jericho was when he won the AEW title
The Georgia wrestling wars video y’all are eventually gonna do will be grand. Also recommend looking into Texas wrestling history, the promotion wars there are quite the stories
This is excellent! Can’t wait for the next Rise and Fall video.
You know Mean Gene, this guy makes great videos. Whatcha gonna do when Cultaholic runs wild on you!
We went to alot of these events when I was a kid. Cool t shirt too.
No wonder why Hogan became that backstage burying machine, considering how BS was his treatment in AWA. He learned the hard way how to be and stay on the top of the food chain.
Valid point