I got the all in kick starter (my first) and wish i could get this to the table more. I had the same issue with the rule book and used the BBG thread and rewritten rules. I play at first in a group of 3 but the others found the game too long and grinding. Your characters more often get defeated by the alter effects and the boss effect rather than the actual fight. I've also played solo both 1 handed with a mercenary and two handed as i don't mind spending all day on my own with an engaging game. Although i like the board, the one thing i wasn't keen on was the lack of exploring (i much prefer revealing tiles as i explore), you know where all the doors are the are all open. You mentioned the mini game of choosing your route depending on the quest, but i couldn't get behind this (i must try again with this in mind) and like a little randomness to my exploring. I did find a house rule on BBG where you role the dice for each door and it can by blocked, locked or open, although this can make the game longer and harder at times. I think i will look on BBG to see what houserules / variants i might want to use and then revisit the game using your way of looking at exploration routes. I would like to finish the campaign stories as i've started a few times with different players before the group peeterd out. Well that was a bit more that i had planned on writting. Thanks for a good review.
I had the same reaction to the rulebook as you did, I opened the cover page super exited and as soon as I got past the card breakdown pages things went downhill...to boring valley...wow, what a depressing unhelpful rulebook. I found Doctor Bandage's threads and indeed, he saved this game from being shelved.
Nice review! The comments about the rule book are so spot on! It was very hard to read through the rules due to the lack of engagement and then no real mood to let’s start putting these into action.
Yeah, I guess I didn't quite realize how boring it was until watching this, but I do remember wishing I had visual examples the entire time I read it. The manual was tedious to get through and after reading it I went right to TH-cam to watch some playthroughs to get a better idea of how it flows. Then I found the same visual guide you did on BGG, which is better than the actual manual I think. As it stands now though, I actually love this game. I am really having fun playing it. This may sound obvious, but playing the game is way more fun than both the manual makes it sound and even videos of it being played make it look. I'm looking forward to playing this with some other people when things get back to normal.
Thank you for the video. I have to say the artworks on that Van Geyzer (Horseman) character cracks me up. I don’t think I have seen anything like it before... A Witcher with a horse head !!! He is even giving you that Geralt look in the eye... Must be terrifying to all the enemies... Anyways, I think the module deck system is a nice idea that I may borrow into my homebrew stuff for other games. I think classic Heroquest will actually benefit from such system to make it truely playable in Solo.
Very cool! I like Street Masters a lot, somehow I can manage to feel the theme there. I own AQ too but still have not played it, and after watching this video I am more excited to try it this weekend!
awesome review and thank you for touching on the points related to map exploration and the decks. I'm hoping that they create a "deck building" component down the line. I'll keep watching it for now of course!
I'm still of the opinion that Street Masters is the sweet spot when it comes to these Modular Deck System games. Maybe because it was the first in the series, but I believe that game most closely embodies the original vision for what its game system set out to accomplish: easy to play, easy to teach, quick setup, strong theming, high variability. Each successive game since then seems to re-tune the balance between those design philosophies in favor of an increasing focus on mechanics. New and more complex mechanics are continuously added to refine the system and accommodate the theme, which is necessary to differentiate them from previous entries, but doing so has also resulted Brook City and Altar Quest being slower to set up, slower to play, harder to learn and teach, and slowly becoming less adventurous and more of a puzzle to solve in terms of "game feel". Interestingly, the next game slated to release in the MDS series, Hour of Need, came across as very Pandemic-like in terms of its gameplay (based on Kickstarter previews during its campaign), so maybe the Sadler brothers realized their designs were trending in puzzle-heavy direction and decided to lean into it.
@@TheDungeonDive How is the theme of Altar Quest better reflected in its mechanisms than Street Masters? Both are fairly abstracted games which rely on strong mechanisms. I feel the Fighters, Bosses and Stages, along with the usable weopons you can pick up reflect the Brawler theme quite well. Why can't there be a strategic brawler, where placement and movement matters? There are movies and video games which do that. A highly skilled Street Fighter Match or a movie like Matrix or John Wick comes to mind, where there is lots tactics and maneuvering in the battles, offensive and defensive moves.
@@Enroth186 Same here. I find Street Masters an amazing game aa well and the theme IS very well implemented. I really love the thematic aspects the stages include (like raptors in the swamps, the bullets firing van assaults etc.). So good. And slow and grindy, Daniel? Seriously? Street Masters is action from the start. Etherfields is more grindy, seriously.
@@TheDungeonDive This is the first time I disagree and I disagree very strongly. The gameplay with Street Masters blends in perfectly with the theme. Its so exceptional thematic in blending theme and gameplay that it is definitely alltime top 5 in my pov regarding that. To say theme isnt reflected in the mechanisms is just plain out wrong and my guess is you just dont like the game. Its not strong on the narrative part and the text is mostly filler and well its not fantasy. But theme and mechanism oh my. The interacting of MDS, board and miniatures is straight out amazing. Regarding grinding. Well AQ and EF are much more grindy as are a lot of other games. I am btw not a big SM fan and have sold it of again. Still I respect it for what it is and imo it is by far the best MDS game the Saddlers made and will ever make. thx for your videos and this is just a lighthearted critic. Its great that you deliver so much exceptional content
I like the AQ a lot so far. Feels like a classic Crawler on the one hand (heroes open room after room and explore the unknown in the dungeon). On the other hand it feels fresh and unique with the MDS in the genre, at least for me. Overall mechanically a strong game but less interesting on the narrative part.
thanks for the review.. i ended up buying the game after a friend bought me the minis from Miniature Market (Stretch Goals) for a bargain price.. so then I ended up buying all the expansion..:-) Anyways..this is so far the best video explaining game play. Thanks again!
Thanks Daniel. Looks like it has some cool features, but I'm glad I passed over this one. However I will say that looking at that board made me super stoked for Dungeon Crusade
@@TheDungeonDive Hello D.j. and a late good evening to you or good morning to you depending on when you see this. I hope that you're doing good and had a great Thanksgiving. I wanted to take the time to say thank you for your kind words. You're a very awesome guy with a super personality, attitude, and outlook. In regards to Dungeon Crusade, I'd like to share with you what I recently said, and I hope you don't mind. Please understand, I'm not being "glowy" about it at all, but just wanted to point a few things out and possibly why I think many people are looking forward to it. I think people are genuinely going to enjoy this innovative, creative, and thematic experience in a new type of fantasy adventure/RPG/dungeon crawl game. That's what I was out to do for people. Give them something new to enjoy and put a lot of passion into it for them. The biggest reward I'm looking for is just seeing what types of quests, scenarios, and mods people will create for Dungeon Crusade. That was another thing that was paramount, is to create the game in a way where people could use their creativity and imagination in designing content to play and share with others. BUT THE BIG POINT I WANT TO MAKE IS: I would recommend for people and fellow gamers to approach The Avalon Adventure board game and Dungeon Crusade with an open mind. What I mean is, this game is genuinely a creative evolution in the fantasy adventure/RPG/dungeon crawl genre. It's an open-world design, there's nothing linear about it, and I believe that's something that excites people. Lastly, I think you know what inspired me...games like Warhammer Quest, Heroquest, Dark Tower, and Dungeonquest. But I also love those PC RPG's from that golden era as I call it. Games like the Ultima series, Eye of the Beholder, Might & Magic, Icewind Dale, Wizardry, and my personal favorite Baldur's Gate. Plus, many more. I'm a Diablo junkie! So I feel, Dungeon Crusade/The Avalon Adventure board game is a blend of all of those kinds of games along with my own imagination, creativity, and ingenuity. In closing, I love your channel D.j. and all the quality content you provide everyone. I can see your channel is growing and I'm very happy for you. I hope that you have an excellent weekend. Talk to you soon. :)
Interesting video. Please keep pointing out the deficiencies in rule books. I didn't back this one, I think based on appearance as much as anything (real deep due diligence going on there!). I'm not sure, for example, I appreciated the map layout - I haven't played games which utilise that approach.
Strangely, I found the rule book fine and learnt to play the game from just that document. I have played a lot of Street Masters so that probably helped. So far I’m enjoying the game although it does have a few issues: too many characters are just animal people, the icons for the stats make no sense, the mid game can drag a bit and I’m still not 100% sold on the single board. Also, it takes up so much space. I have a decent sized table and struggle to fit it on there.
@@mcashed You'll find you're in good company at the Dungeon Dive regarding Silver Tower, especially at the DD Facebook group. There are many of us who LOVE Silver Tower, and we sing its praises often. :)
Thanks for the good video! many people have issues with the rule book. for me it is sort of concentrade. we had to read parts of it two times (not native speakers) to understand it, and we needed a full game to learn everything. on top not every single part of the game gets clear - but for such a big game we have spend a very short time reading the rules. that is why i really like the rule book. maybe it is just because i am weird german engineer who doesn’t like fluff stuff in rule books.
Once again publishers count on their community to fix the flaws in the player’s experience. The rule book of jaw of the lions is a great example to follow for on boarding. Let’s hope that it makes other publishers think about this part as well will designing games
They sure were! I used to go to the Asian grocery store near my house when I was young and read those and all the Kung Fu magazines. They were a big reason why I got so into martial arts cinema.
Hmm , you reading that part of the rule book nearly beat my insomnia 😂. Still excited to play the game , even more so to paint the miniatures I think 👀
If you want a faster game similar to this, I'd totally recommend Contra: The Board Game and I'm not even a Contra fan 😅. It doesn't only play faster, but it's more engaging for everyone because cards can let others take actions outside of their turns and you can use your special ability at anytime. Cards are simpler, so this means less text, which means more action 😃. I got Altar Quest as the meaty option to play with my boyfriend and Contra: The Board Game as my fast 4 player alternative. I love their games 😌.
@@TheDungeonDive There were demos at GenCon and liked it a lot so I joined to another demo at SPIEL.digital 😅. Honestly, Contra might end up being my favorite one because of its fast paced nature. Buddy Cop is another one I tried at SPIEL and was fast, but maybe not as much considering cards have more text and it's a little more combo driven. There was no board and it was a 2 player only game, which will be able to play at 4 with future expansions planned that are similar in content to the core box. Both of these games have been influenced by other people that seemed to want faster experiences without sacrificing card play and their dice system. Both are available to pre-order and will release on the 1 quarter of the next year.
So I largely agree with your review. I've tackled this twice so far and put it back on the shelf twice. I like the way it looks and the dungeon furniture and the way the dice work with their focuses. I like the board too and the "mana" dice are also fine. The problem happens when you start playing. The Quest/Villain/Threat system calls for a LOT of effort to play the enemy turn (and a fair amount of time). And it seemed from the start as though you make a move and then the game hits you with a baseball bat repeatedly all during that enemy turn, taking away your focuses and supplies that you have painfully built up. And if you stop or slow down, you get inundated by enemies, especially if you kill all the ones you have (depending on the villain). And if you try to play the story quest, they hit you with the hardest quests right off and the harder monsters are just so ridiculous about hitting you with endless damage that I just gave up before even finishing the third story quest and packed it up. Not sure I will take it down again. The equipment was nice, but in no way did it compensate for the beatings given by the "more advanced" monsters. The upgraded cards were nice, but barely better than the regular cards (similar to Jaws of the Lion). This has the potential of being a fun game, but that potential is just not realized IMHO.
Happy thanksgiving! I have my copy nearby, but have yet to crack it open. A shame the Sadler brothers weren’t able to build more thematic elements, that’s one of my favourite things in Dungeon Crawlers. I’m still really looking forward to trying the game out this weekend, but will temper my expectations accordingly.
There are a couple pages of rules to do a "free roam" campaign where you chain 6 quests and level and gear up in between them. No story for those though, so mix and match the decks and create your own fantasy why X villain mingles with Y minions :)
Sometimes I get the feeling that you like a game just based on the fact that it has a fantasy/dungeon theme, or at least are more forgiving towards a game with this theme :-) Compared to street masters, Altar Quest is even more "slow and grinding", more decks of cards to handle, more cards with little rules on the table at the same time. Street masters is just one single maptile, whith a very limited amount of enemies and scenario rules. In Altar Quest you have a huge board with many rooms, which all have different features, enemies and rules. I can't understand why you critizise Street Masters for it's "puzzly" nature but at the same like Altar Quest for it. Maybe it is just the expectations you have towards the theme of a game and are disappinted when the game is different from what you thought it would be. Somehow a board game about a "street fighter style" brawler HAS to be quick and easy, but a dungeon crawler CAN be slow and strategic. Isn't this just in your head?
@@TheDungeonDive I support "the marriage between theme and mechanisms is crucial". But I disagree to condone that game A does not match its theme very well, just because I like its theme very much. And on the other hand hold the same flaw against game B, just because I don't like its theme very much.
I have Alta Quest and have not yet found that the game is lengthy at all, however, I have only played with a singe hero so this may change when playing with multiple heroes. You are completely correct: the rule book sucks and I've had to watch several play throughs to grasp some of the rules. Thankfully I managed to check out Doctor Bandage posts on BGG.
I think it's only long if you play with more than two players, because of analysis paralysis. I don't think I'd ever play it with more than 2 players / 2 heroes.
One of the main things that keep me coming to this chanel is you focus on theme, feel, art, lore and rulebooks. Most reviewers say, I will tell you how to play the game so you don't need to read the rulebooks but the rulebooks are important and it is the gateway to the game, especially for solo. I also loved that you found the faucet instructions to be more entertaining than this rulebook! It sounds like this rulebook is as dry as the ASL rulebook, yep it's all in there but boring. Keep it up
1:40 - You nailed what is wrong with mech-heavy thematic games. Designers try to be too smart when evolving their mechanical skills but fail to connect with the symbiotic underpinnings of the theme...even in a dungeon crawl like AltarQuest. 4:15 - Rulebooks are an art, and you're right in that they have to be the gateway to the game experience while carefully balancing explaining the rules with evocative world exposition. Better yet, most modern games get you into playing quickly with a 'Tutorial Guide' backed up by a 'Reference Book' for when you need to look up something later. 9:30 - Brainburn and adventure do not go well with me, personally. And the cards - or game in general even - without pre-scripted narrative turn the experience into an even more 'accounting-like' activity. I don't want to have to keep rereading cards with fiddly little rules when I just want to stomp through a dungeon. In other words, when a game feels like 'work' then I'm out. 15:45 - The Campaign Mode as an afterthought. The Sadler brothers were very clear that they wanted a 'one-off' experience, which is fine but then lacks the depth and immersion of a campaign. Character growth and leveling through scenarios is very RPG-like and has to be the central focus (that's where the recent *Bardsung* fails as well) 17:00 - Story Cards are no substitute for a Scenario Book. *Hellboy the Board Game* made this mistake as well. Both also have in common that you grab a scenario and then mix-and-match enemy cards, a boss and threat tokens which is 'nice' for replayability but I'd rather have a dedicated, cohesive story that plays distinctively different from any other pre-scripted scenario. But hey, it's a 'one-off' skirmish mentality. 20:35 - Static map. Yeah, the Sadlers were also very vocal about hating location tiles. But I think that's lazy reasoning. Make a quest book like Plaid Hat Games does or Jaws of the Lion. But hey, when you can only focus on poker cards and the 'modular deck system' they support, any kind of smart theme-mechanical component design goes out the window, right? Conclusion: I'm glad my initial misgivings about this game were correct, although I feel bad for those who didn't realize this and backed the game in the hopes of having an innovative adventure campaign game with a unique theme and supportive mechanics.
Maybe in some games that is true. But calling Street Masters an unthematic/abstract game is really wrong. All the content really creates thematic sense with their mechanics and the way it is played out.
I’m hoping that after a few more playthroughs I’ll get the card play more structured in my head so I can use my (limited) brainpower for imagining the story unfolding rather than for working out card combos and efficient card order. Hopefully that will allow the game to more immersive. Imo Brook City was a better match of mechanics to theme than Streetmasters.
Hello.! How do you feel about the game after almost a year now? With HeroQuest coming soon(preordered) I was thinking of selling AQ and with the money paying for HQ. I like the whole idea etc of AQ but it seems a little repetitive or is it just me? Also, although there can be tough situations I feel like its, explore room, spawn 1 enemy for solo at least, kill or be killed, move on and repeat. 🤔 I thought of getting Heroquest after hearing about the Solo app. Couldn't pass on a classic.
I think the game is best with two heroes with complementary attributes. Supply tokens are incredibly useful and one of your first priorities should be to build up a stockpile by searching features. A second priority is getting ongoing cards out to give you options with the altar dice. The hobbit character is actually one of the best characters. If the game has one fault it's that the heroes have too many duplicated cards (8 types with 3 copies each). 1-2 or of each would probably have been much better.
I backed it, I received it yesterday. The map and furnitures look really cool. I think it will have a nice place between dungeon crawlers that are quick but too simple (dungeonquest, Wrath of Ashardalon) and dungeon crawlers that are great but don't hit the table as often as possible because they take a lot of time (Warhammer Quest). It looks like sleeving the game with good sleeves would cost half the price of the game, ooops.
Daniel, I agree with all of your comments. I just played my first game yesterday. I have a couple of rules questions if you can help me out: 1. How does the boss spawn. I don't see any card in the Villain deck that spawns the boss and the boss card can't go in the deck since it has text on the back. So a bit confused there. 2. The Equipment Cards for each character - are they pulled out before the start? - I left them in the deck yesterday and they never came out.
1. Most bosses spawn when you run out of cards in their deck. Place them on the spawn space nearest to the most heroes. 2. Equipment cards are kept out during set up, and placed next to your character card for use during the game. You always have access to them.
This biggest stumbling block to playing board games is the rule book itself. They seem to assume that you are actually a long term board gaming grognard...
I can’t imagine learning this game from this rule book if this was one of the first games you’ve played. It could turn someone off from the hobby completely.
I've heard that Massive Darkness can be a bit of a race to the finish line. You didn't mention anything about the pace in Altar Quest, do you find that you have time to explore or is this an illusion and instead the quest makes the gameplay somewhat linear? Great to see another vid from you, thanks for the content =)
Neither game really gives a sense of exploration in my opinion, but each is also paced differently. MD is faster paced and more actiony, while AQ is slower and more puzzly. You do need to put more thought into how you reveal rooms in AQ, though, because if you don’t you might regret it.
When I read a rule book I want to learn the rules. And I want them to learn as fast and easy as it can be. If there is one thing that prevents me from playing a game, that is a rule book plastered with useless fluff text, making it unneccessarily difficult to read and hard to look up a rule when needed. It's the game itself that should make me excited, not the rulebook.
I like all things to be equal with board games. It’s something I talk about all the time on this channel - the total experience. I think having a rule book that is an exciting gateway into the game shows an attention to detail on the part of the designers and developers. It’s a clue to me that the game I’m about to enjoy, the game I’ve already spent money on, is one that has been carefully designed and produced. Most reviewers don’t care about this kind of stuff, but I think it’s one of the things that makes this channel unique. I can only talk about things in terms of my own values and experiences, and that’s what I’m speaking to here. Of course we will all have our own hopefully-informed opinions on the matter. :)
Hey, thanks for your video. I am currently at 8:16 and I have learned only three things about the game for now (its theme, that it has a modular deck system, and that the rule book is awful). In my opinion, I have learned too little in 8 minutes for a game review. I think that your videos could be improved (for example, you could start the video by providing the goal and the main mechanisms of the game before talking about the rule book). It is often best to start with the main points before talking about the secondary points (e.g., other games by the same developer). I share this opinion in the hope that you might find it useful to improve your content. I found your critic of rule books relevant and interesting btw!
Could you share which model of large Plano have you've got there with all the tokens? Correction: the rhune on the bottom of an enemy isn't an alternative thing it happens after the main activation as an additional effect if that rhune is present.
Yeah. Must have just misspoke. That’s how I play and what I meant to say. Those powers trigger of the Rhune is present. Thanks! That’s no one ever should use my videos as a how to play thing. :). DUOFIRE Plastic Organizer Container Storage Box Adjustable Divider Removable Grid Compartment for Jewelry Beads Earring Container Tool Fishing Hook Small Accessories（15 grids，White x 4） www.amazon.com/dp/B078MDSL17/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_PjXYFb0ABDT8R?psc=1
Do you still own this game or sold it? I have an offer to buy a KS copy but really undecided due to the repetitive gameplay of going through the mechanical process of each cards. It all feels very abstract which is fine but having minis and board, I would prefer a more immersive experience eg monsters attack with claws etc instead of just inflict. The whole threat token and supply token also contribute to the abstraction. However I am still very much tempted due to the room feature minis and the boards which I plan to use for heroquest/warhammer quest games.
I wasn’t a fan of this one. Too slow and predictable. I also found it too puzzly for my tastes. Sold my copy after a couple of plays. Certainly not a bad game - just not for me.
I like puzzly/strategy games, but the mechanics in this game did not mesh well (at all) with the dungeon/fantasy aspect. Basically what you experience within your first 5 minutes, is what you will be experiencing for the next 50 hours. It's really really repetitive.
Hmmm, that board sure reminds me of HeroQuest. Hmmm, those miniatures sure remind me of HeroQuest. Hmmm, that font sure reminds me of HeroQuest. That rulebook is horrible. There should always be visual references in a rulebook. Blacklist Games just hasn't made the right game yet that gets me excited to purchase.
The only think even remotely like HQ in the game, is the way the board is laid out. While playing, you won't be reminded of HQ at all. :) The board is my favorite thing about the game, and I'd love to see a similar thing in future games.
I think I will enjoy painting and playing this game. That said, I HATE bad rulebooks. There is no excuse for a lousy rulebook. Designers/publishers need to divorce themselves from the creation of the rulebook, as much as possible. As someone with a background in Instructional Design (ID), and who leads an organization of IDs, I experience this issue daily. Subject matter experts think that dumping their brain on paper equals quality training. It takes a technical writer with a solid understanding of learning theory and graphic design to balance that expertise and leverage it appropriately. I have suggested that game designers utilize IDs when building rulebooks, but the common objection is cost. I find that to be a weak argument. Contracting an ID would not be expensive, and many early career (or fresh out of school) IDs would do it free for their portfolio. Gamers, like myself, would do it for the joy.
Watched numerous play throughs of this and I just think it looks so dull, I nearly backed it on Kickstarter and regretted not backing it but now I’m so glad I didn’t, must have been something that stopped me backing in the first place.
@@TheDungeonDive Thanks for the update! I haven't cracked it open yet. After watching many videos and reading up about it, I get the impression that at the very least, it's a divisive game. Space is limited, so I think I'm leaning towards selling my copy.
Also I found this game incredibly thematic. I understand what you're saying in regards to flavor text on the enemy cards, but there is plenty of story on the quest cards. Also, I found it very easy to get immersed in the world.
The rulebook is indeed somewhat boring to read, but the way you read a piece out loud for us, was a lot more boring than the text really is. When you talk about the game itself, you speak a lot less boring. Was that perhaps on purpose? 😉
besides the fact that there are far superior games out there with regard to puzzle mechanics I absolutely HATE the theme of that game. Not only does it look ugly, I also don't think there is anything particular appealing in fighting frogs with halflings that have pretty much no lore that backs this up substantially to really draw me in. I am not surpised by the boring rulebook. The designer's are known for the focus on mechanics to the cost of deep lore, theme, and engaging story. Happy I did not back this.
I enjoyed their Warhammer Quest card game and am enjoying my 1st play of Altar Quest but different opinions and views are a good thing. GL, HF and g'day to all.
I like games that require more than throwing dice and reading, so this is up my alley 😃. For example, I don't like Eldritch Horror because all I'm doing is moving, reading events and throwing dice mindlessly. C'mon, they're games, not books 😵.
One more remark: pigs and frogs are funny but all enemies decks are anthropomorphic animals, which makes the theme childish. I wonder why they went in these direction. It may be better than fighting generic goblins once more but still, it's not original. What come next, fighting giraffes?
I don’t think anthropomorphic animals are inherently childish. The original TMNT comic and After the Bomb RPG certainly aren’t childish. The skaven in Warhammer are downright evil!
@@TheDungeonDive You may be right. Maybe that's the style of the illustrations that produces this effect on me then. Some are bad, some are nice but most are bland. It's even more contrasting since I'm playing Dungeon Degenerates at the moment.
awesome review and thank you for touching on the points related to map exploration and the decks. I'm hoping that they create a "deck building" component down the line. I'll keep watching it for now of course!
I got the all in kick starter (my first) and wish i could get this to the table more. I had the same issue with the rule book and used the BBG thread and rewritten rules. I play at first in a group of 3 but the others found the game too long and grinding. Your characters more often get defeated by the alter effects and the boss effect rather than the actual fight. I've also played solo both 1 handed with a mercenary and two handed as i don't mind spending all day on my own with an engaging game. Although i like the board, the one thing i wasn't keen on was the lack of exploring (i much prefer revealing tiles as i explore), you know where all the doors are the are all open. You mentioned the mini game of choosing your route depending on the quest, but i couldn't get behind this (i must try again with this in mind) and like a little randomness to my exploring. I did find a house rule on BBG where you role the dice for each door and it can by blocked, locked or open, although this can make the game longer and harder at times. I think i will look on BBG to see what houserules / variants i might want to use and then revisit the game using your way of looking at exploration routes. I would like to finish the campaign stories as i've started a few times with different players before the group peeterd out. Well that was a bit more that i had planned on writting. Thanks for a good review.
I had the same reaction to the rulebook as you did, I opened the cover page super exited and as soon as I got past the card breakdown pages things went downhill...to boring valley...wow, what a depressing unhelpful rulebook. I found Doctor Bandage's threads and indeed, he saved this game from being shelved.
There are quite a few of us in this camp.
Nice review! The comments about the rule book are so spot on!
It was very hard to read through the rules due to the lack of engagement and then no real mood to let’s start putting these into action.
Totally. It's not exciting at all, and also does a really bad job of explaining what to do with all the rules.
Yeah, I guess I didn't quite realize how boring it was until watching this, but I do remember wishing I had visual examples the entire time I read it. The manual was tedious to get through and after reading it I went right to TH-cam to watch some playthroughs to get a better idea of how it flows. Then I found the same visual guide you did on BGG, which is better than the actual manual I think. As it stands now though, I actually love this game. I am really having fun playing it. This may sound obvious, but playing the game is way more fun than both the manual makes it sound and even videos of it being played make it look. I'm looking forward to playing this with some other people when things get back to normal.
Thank you for the video. I have to say the artworks on that Van Geyzer (Horseman) character cracks me up. I don’t think I have seen anything like it before... A Witcher with a horse head !!! He is even giving you that Geralt look in the eye... Must be terrifying to all the enemies...
Anyways, I think the module deck system is a nice idea that I may borrow into my homebrew stuff for other games. I think classic Heroquest will actually benefit from such system to make it truely playable in Solo.
Very cool! I like Street Masters a lot, somehow I can manage to feel the theme there. I own AQ too but still have not played it, and after watching this video I am more excited to try it this weekend!
Have fun!
awesome review and thank you for touching on the points related to map exploration and the decks. I'm hoping that they create a "deck building" component down the line. I'll keep watching it for now of course!
I'm still of the opinion that Street Masters is the sweet spot when it comes to these Modular Deck System games. Maybe because it was the first in the series, but I believe that game most closely embodies the original vision for what its game system set out to accomplish: easy to play, easy to teach, quick setup, strong theming, high variability. Each successive game since then seems to re-tune the balance between those design philosophies in favor of an increasing focus on mechanics. New and more complex mechanics are continuously added to refine the system and accommodate the theme, which is necessary to differentiate them from previous entries, but doing so has also resulted Brook City and Altar Quest being slower to set up, slower to play, harder to learn and teach, and slowly becoming less adventurous and more of a puzzle to solve in terms of "game feel".
Interestingly, the next game slated to release in the MDS series, Hour of Need, came across as very Pandemic-like in terms of its gameplay (based on Kickstarter previews during its campaign), so maybe the Sadler brothers realized their designs were trending in puzzle-heavy direction and decided to lean into it.
I totally agree with everything you just said :-)
I wish the theme of SM was reflected more in its mechanisms.
@@TheDungeonDive How is the theme of Altar Quest better reflected in its mechanisms than Street Masters? Both are fairly abstracted games which rely on strong mechanisms. I feel the Fighters, Bosses and Stages, along with the usable weopons you can pick up reflect the Brawler theme quite well. Why can't there be a strategic brawler, where placement and movement matters? There are movies and video games which do that. A highly skilled Street Fighter Match or a movie like Matrix or John Wick comes to mind, where there is lots tactics and maneuvering in the battles, offensive and defensive moves.
@@Enroth186 Same here. I find Street Masters an amazing game aa well and the theme IS very well implemented. I really love the thematic aspects the stages include (like raptors in the swamps, the bullets firing van assaults etc.). So good. And slow and grindy, Daniel? Seriously? Street Masters is action from the start. Etherfields is more grindy, seriously.
@@TheDungeonDive This is the first time I disagree and I disagree very strongly. The gameplay with Street Masters blends in perfectly with the theme. Its so exceptional thematic in blending theme and gameplay that it is definitely alltime top 5 in my pov regarding that. To say theme isnt reflected in the mechanisms is just plain out wrong and my guess is you just dont like the game. Its not strong on the narrative part and the text is mostly filler and well its not fantasy. But theme and mechanism oh my. The interacting of MDS, board and miniatures is straight out amazing.
Regarding grinding. Well AQ and EF are much more grindy as are a lot of other games.
I am btw not a big SM fan and have sold it of again. Still I respect it for what it is and imo it is by far the best MDS game the Saddlers made and will ever make.
thx for your videos and this is just a lighthearted critic. Its great that you deliver so much exceptional content
I like the AQ a lot so far. Feels like a classic Crawler on the one hand (heroes open room after room and explore the unknown in the dungeon). On the other hand it feels fresh and unique with the MDS in the genre, at least for me.
Overall mechanically a strong game but less interesting on the narrative part.
Agree.
Great review mate thanks 😊
Love the DD! Really good content man. Keep at it, you’ll keep growing.
thanks for the review.. i ended up buying the game after a friend bought me the minis from Miniature Market (Stretch Goals) for a bargain price.. so then I ended up buying all the expansion..:-) Anyways..this is so far the best video explaining game play. Thanks again!
Hope you enjoy it!
Nice review. Thanks Daniel.
Thanks.
Thanks Daniel. Looks like it has some cool features, but I'm glad I passed over this one.
However I will say that looking at that board made me super stoked for Dungeon Crusade
I literally dream about Dungeon Crusade. :) Not joking.
@@TheDungeonDive Hello D.j. and a late good evening to you or good morning to you depending on when you see this. I hope that you're doing good and had a great Thanksgiving.
I wanted to take the time to say thank you for your kind words. You're a very awesome guy with a super personality, attitude, and outlook.
In regards to Dungeon Crusade, I'd like to share with you what I recently said, and I hope you don't mind. Please understand, I'm not being "glowy" about it at all, but just wanted to point a few things out and possibly why I think many people are looking forward to it.
I think people are genuinely going to enjoy this innovative, creative, and thematic experience in a new type of fantasy adventure/RPG/dungeon crawl game.
That's what I was out to do for people. Give them something new to enjoy and put a lot of passion into it for them.
The biggest reward I'm looking for is just seeing what types of quests, scenarios, and mods people will create for Dungeon Crusade.
That was another thing that was paramount, is to create the game in a way where people could use their creativity and imagination in designing content to play and share with others.
BUT THE BIG POINT I WANT TO MAKE IS: I would recommend for people and fellow gamers to approach The Avalon Adventure board game and Dungeon Crusade with an open mind. What I mean is, this game is genuinely a creative evolution in the fantasy adventure/RPG/dungeon crawl genre. It's an open-world design, there's nothing linear about it, and I believe that's something that excites people.
Lastly, I think you know what inspired me...games like Warhammer Quest, Heroquest, Dark Tower, and Dungeonquest. But I also love those PC RPG's from that golden era as I call it. Games like the Ultima series, Eye of the Beholder, Might & Magic, Icewind Dale, Wizardry, and my personal favorite Baldur's Gate. Plus, many more. I'm a Diablo junkie!
So I feel, Dungeon Crusade/The Avalon Adventure board game is a blend of all of those kinds of games along with my own imagination, creativity, and ingenuity.
In closing, I love your channel D.j. and all the quality content you provide everyone. I can see your channel is growing and I'm very happy for you. I hope that you have an excellent weekend. Talk to you soon. :)
Interesting video. Please keep pointing out the deficiencies in rule books. I didn't back this one, I think based on appearance as much as anything (real deep due diligence going on there!). I'm not sure, for example, I appreciated the map layout - I haven't played games which utilise that approach.
Strangely, I found the rule book fine and learnt to play the game from just that document. I have played a lot of Street Masters so that probably helped.
So far I’m enjoying the game although it does have a few issues: too many characters are just animal people, the icons for the stats make no sense, the mid game can drag a bit and I’m still not 100% sold on the single board. Also, it takes up so much space. I have a decent sized table and struggle to fit it on there.
I have a very small table, and it's pretty hard to play. :) And yes, the stat icons...WTF? :)
Totally agree about the rulebooks. I remember reading the one for the Silver Tower and I could not wait to start playing, haha!
Yep! That’s why that game is in my Masterclass series. GW are the kings of thematic rule books.
@@TheDungeonDive Great pick, I gotta look up that series!
@@mcashed Silver Tower is the only entry so far. :).
@@TheDungeonDive Good start then!:D
@@mcashed You'll find you're in good company at the Dungeon Dive regarding Silver Tower, especially at the DD Facebook group. There are many of us who LOVE Silver Tower, and we sing its praises often. :)
The music at the geinning is simply...phenomenal!!!!!!!!!!
*beginning
Thanks!
Happy thanksgiving man !
Thanks!! You, too.
Thanks for the good video!
many people have issues with the rule book. for me it is sort of concentrade. we had to read parts of it two times (not native speakers) to understand it, and we needed a full game to learn everything. on top not every single part of the game gets clear - but for such a big game we have spend a very short time reading the rules. that is why i really like the rule book.
maybe it is just because i am weird german engineer who doesn’t like fluff stuff in rule books.
HA! "Weird German engineer." Love it. I know about you Germans and your love for efficiency. ;)
Once again publishers count on their community to fix the flaws in the player’s experience. The rule book of jaw of the lions is a great example to follow for on boarding. Let’s hope that it makes other publishers think about this part as well will designing games
Yep. True.
OMG!! Jademan Comics (Buddha's Palm, Oriental Heroes, Blood Sword & Blood Sword Dynasty), those were amazing comics!!!
They sure were! I used to go to the Asian grocery store near my house when I was young and read those and all the Kung Fu magazines. They were a big reason why I got so into martial arts cinema.
Hmm , you reading that part of the rule book nearly beat my insomnia 😂. Still excited to play the game , even more so to paint the miniatures I think 👀
You and me both!
I used to love reading Drunken Fist, Oriental Heroes, and Force of Buddha's Palm as a kid. I was so sad when they stopped publishing in the U.S.
Weren't those great? So many good memories of reading those.
If you want a faster game similar to this, I'd totally recommend Contra: The Board Game and I'm not even a Contra fan 😅.
It doesn't only play faster, but it's more engaging for everyone because cards can let others take actions outside of their turns and you can use your special ability at anytime.
Cards are simpler, so this means less text, which means more action 😃.
I got Altar Quest as the meaty option to play with my boyfriend and Contra: The Board Game as my fast 4 player alternative.
I love their games 😌.
I didn't even know they made a Contra game! :) Thanks for the tip.
@@TheDungeonDive There were demos at GenCon and liked it a lot so I joined to another demo at SPIEL.digital 😅.
Honestly, Contra might end up being my favorite one because of its fast paced nature.
Buddy Cop is another one I tried at SPIEL and was fast, but maybe not as much considering cards have more text and it's a little more combo driven. There was no board and it was a 2 player only game, which will be able to play at 4 with future expansions planned that are similar in content to the core box.
Both of these games have been influenced by other people that seemed to want faster experiences without sacrificing card play and their dice system.
Both are available to pre-order and will release on the 1 quarter of the next year.
So I largely agree with your review. I've tackled this twice so far and put it back on the shelf twice. I like the way it looks and the dungeon furniture and the way the dice work with their focuses. I like the board too and the "mana" dice are also fine. The problem happens when you start playing. The Quest/Villain/Threat system calls for a LOT of effort to play the enemy turn (and a fair amount of time). And it seemed from the start as though you make a move and then the game hits you with a baseball bat repeatedly all during that enemy turn, taking away your focuses and supplies that you have painfully built up. And if you stop or slow down, you get inundated by enemies, especially if you kill all the ones you have (depending on the villain). And if you try to play the story quest, they hit you with the hardest quests right off and the harder monsters are just so ridiculous about hitting you with endless damage that I just gave up before even finishing the third story quest and packed it up. Not sure I will take it down again. The equipment was nice, but in no way did it compensate for the beatings given by the "more advanced" monsters. The upgraded cards were nice, but barely better than the regular cards (similar to Jaws of the Lion). This has the potential of being a fun game, but that potential is just not realized IMHO.
I sold it soon after making the video. I'd say my opinion of it turned even more sour.
Happy thanksgiving! I have my copy nearby, but have yet to crack it open. A shame the Sadler brothers weren’t able to build more thematic elements, that’s one of my favourite things in Dungeon Crawlers. I’m still really looking forward to trying the game out this weekend, but will temper my expectations accordingly.
Thanks, and you too. This is more game than them, but that's OK. :)
There are a couple pages of rules to do a "free roam" campaign where you chain 6 quests and level and gear up in between them. No story for those though, so mix and match the decks and create your own fantasy why X villain mingles with Y minions :)
Great review Daniel. Have you thought of doi ng a top 10 list of the best rule books out there?
I will be doing something on rule books, but probably not a top 10 list.
Sometimes I get the feeling that you like a game just based on the fact that it has a fantasy/dungeon theme, or at least are more forgiving towards a game with this theme :-) Compared to street masters, Altar Quest is even more "slow and grinding", more decks of cards to handle, more cards with little rules on the table at the same time. Street masters is just one single maptile, whith a very limited amount of enemies and scenario rules. In Altar Quest you have a huge board with many rooms, which all have different features, enemies and rules. I can't understand why you critizise Street Masters for it's "puzzly" nature but at the same like Altar Quest for it. Maybe it is just the expectations you have towards the theme of a game and are disappinted when the game is different from what you thought it would be. Somehow a board game about a "street fighter style" brawler HAS to be quick and easy, but a dungeon crawler CAN be slow and strategic. Isn't this just in your head?
Theme is the most important part of a game for me, and the marriage between theme and mechanisms is crucial.
@@TheDungeonDive I support "the marriage between theme and mechanisms is crucial". But I disagree to condone that game A does not match its theme very well, just because I like its theme very much. And on the other hand hold the same flaw against game B, just because I don't like its theme very much.
I have Alta Quest and have not yet found that the game is lengthy at all, however, I have only played with a singe hero so this may change when playing with multiple heroes. You are completely correct: the rule book sucks and I've had to watch several play throughs to grasp some of the rules. Thankfully I managed to check out Doctor Bandage posts on BGG.
I think it's only long if you play with more than two players, because of analysis paralysis. I don't think I'd ever play it with more than 2 players / 2 heroes.
@@TheDungeonDive Have now played with two heroes & see exactly what you mean ;)
One of the main things that keep me coming to this chanel is you focus on theme, feel, art, lore and rulebooks. Most reviewers say, I will tell you how to play the game so you don't need to read the rulebooks but the rulebooks are important and it is the gateway to the game, especially for solo. I also loved that you found the faucet instructions to be more entertaining than this rulebook! It sounds like this rulebook is as dry as the ASL rulebook, yep it's all in there but boring. Keep it up
Thanks! :) Thankfully, the rule book for this isn't as long as ASL!
@@TheDungeonDive I know right, I don't believe anyone has read that the entire way through
I've only ever seen it. :)
1:40 - You nailed what is wrong with mech-heavy thematic games. Designers try to be too smart when evolving their mechanical skills but fail to connect with the symbiotic underpinnings of the theme...even in a dungeon crawl like AltarQuest.
4:15 - Rulebooks are an art, and you're right in that they have to be the gateway to the game experience while carefully balancing explaining the rules with evocative world exposition. Better yet, most modern games get you into playing quickly with a 'Tutorial Guide' backed up by a 'Reference Book' for when you need to look up something later.
9:30 - Brainburn and adventure do not go well with me, personally. And the cards - or game in general even - without pre-scripted narrative turn the experience into an even more 'accounting-like' activity. I don't want to have to keep rereading cards with fiddly little rules when I just want to stomp through a dungeon. In other words, when a game feels like 'work' then I'm out.
15:45 - The Campaign Mode as an afterthought. The Sadler brothers were very clear that they wanted a 'one-off' experience, which is fine but then lacks the depth and immersion of a campaign. Character growth and leveling through scenarios is very RPG-like and has to be the central focus (that's where the recent *Bardsung* fails as well)
17:00 - Story Cards are no substitute for a Scenario Book. *Hellboy the Board Game* made this mistake as well. Both also have in common that you grab a scenario and then mix-and-match enemy cards, a boss and threat tokens which is 'nice' for replayability but I'd rather have a dedicated, cohesive story that plays distinctively different from any other pre-scripted scenario. But hey, it's a 'one-off' skirmish mentality.
20:35 - Static map. Yeah, the Sadlers were also very vocal about hating location tiles. But I think that's lazy reasoning. Make a quest book like Plaid Hat Games does or Jaws of the Lion. But hey, when you can only focus on poker cards and the 'modular deck system' they support, any kind of smart theme-mechanical component design goes out the window, right?
Conclusion: I'm glad my initial misgivings about this game were correct, although I feel bad for those who didn't realize this and backed the game in the hopes of having an innovative adventure campaign game with a unique theme and supportive mechanics.
I can always count on you for a well-detailed response. :). Thanks.
Maybe in some games that is true. But calling Street Masters an unthematic/abstract game is really wrong. All the content really creates thematic sense with their mechanics and the way it is played out.
Was really excited about this game, but I still haven't gotten through the rulebook or a sigle youtube video for that matter.
I’m hoping that after a few more playthroughs I’ll get the card play more structured in my head so I can use my (limited) brainpower for imagining the story unfolding rather than for working out card combos and efficient card order. Hopefully that will allow the game to more immersive.
Imo Brook City was a better match of mechanics to theme than Streetmasters.
Hello.!
How do you feel about the game after almost a year now?
With HeroQuest coming soon(preordered) I was thinking of selling AQ and with the money paying for HQ. I like the whole idea etc of AQ but it seems a little repetitive or is it just me?
Also, although there can be tough situations I feel like its, explore room, spawn 1 enemy for solo at least, kill or be killed, move on and repeat. 🤔
I thought of getting Heroquest after hearing about the Solo app. Couldn't pass on a classic.
I sold the game. Was a bit too mechanical for me. Hope you enjoy HQ! I don't have much interest these days in HQ. There are better games out there.
I think the game is best with two heroes with complementary attributes. Supply tokens are incredibly useful and one of your first priorities should be to build up a stockpile by searching features. A second priority is getting ongoing cards out to give you options with the altar dice. The hobbit character is actually one of the best characters. If the game has one fault it's that the heroes have too many duplicated cards (8 types with 3 copies each). 1-2 or of each would probably have been much better.
I backed it, I received it yesterday. The map and furnitures look really cool. I think it will have a nice place between dungeon crawlers that are quick but too simple (dungeonquest, Wrath of Ashardalon) and dungeon crawlers that are great but don't hit the table as often as possible because they take a lot of time (Warhammer Quest). It looks like sleeving the game with good sleeves would cost half the price of the game, ooops.
That’s one reason why I almost never sleeve my games. :)
Also, i agree with it hitting a certain sweet spot.
Daniel, I agree with all of your comments. I just played my first game yesterday. I have a couple of rules questions if you can help me out: 1. How does the boss spawn. I don't see any card in the Villain deck that spawns the boss and the boss card can't go in the deck since it has text on the back. So a bit confused there. 2. The Equipment Cards for each character - are they pulled out before the start? - I left them in the deck yesterday and they never came out.
1. Most bosses spawn when you run out of cards in their deck. Place them on the spawn space nearest to the most heroes. 2. Equipment cards are kept out during set up, and placed next to your character card for use during the game. You always have access to them.
@@TheDungeonDive Great, thanks. Also do you have the link to the rewrite of the rulebook on BGG?
In the description.
This is a good game, Although I find myself less happy with it. the best Sadler MDS game is Street Masters, and I love Brook City.
its a fricking engineering technical manual!
Haha. Totally is.
This biggest stumbling block to playing board games is the rule book itself. They seem to assume that you are actually a long term board gaming grognard...
I can’t imagine learning this game from this rule book if this was one of the first games you’ve played. It could turn someone off from the hobby completely.
I've heard that Massive Darkness can be a bit of a race to the finish line. You didn't mention anything about the pace in Altar Quest, do you find that you have time to explore or is this an illusion and instead the quest makes the gameplay somewhat linear?
Great to see another vid from you, thanks for the content =)
Neither game really gives a sense of exploration in my opinion, but each is also paced differently. MD is faster paced and more actiony, while AQ is slower and more puzzly. You do need to put more thought into how you reveal rooms in AQ, though, because if you don’t you might regret it.
They sent every channel a box
They didn’t send me anything. 99% of things I cover I pay for, and if I don’t I clearly state it.
When I read a rule book I want to learn the rules. And I want them to learn as fast and easy as it can be. If there is one thing that prevents me from playing a game, that is a rule book plastered with useless fluff text, making it unneccessarily difficult to read and hard to look up a rule when needed. It's the game itself that should make me excited, not the rulebook.
I like all things to be equal with board games. It’s something I talk about all the time on this channel - the total experience. I think having a rule book that is an exciting gateway into the game shows an attention to detail on the part of the designers and developers. It’s a clue to me that the game I’m about to enjoy, the game I’ve already spent money on, is one that has been carefully designed and produced. Most reviewers don’t care about this kind of stuff, but I think it’s one of the things that makes this channel unique. I can only talk about things in terms of my own values and experiences, and that’s what I’m speaking to here. Of course we will all have our own hopefully-informed opinions on the matter. :)
Hey, thanks for your video.
I am currently at 8:16 and I have learned only three things about the game for now (its theme, that it has a modular deck system, and that the rule book is awful). In my opinion, I have learned too little in 8 minutes for a game review.
I think that your videos could be improved (for example, you could start the video by providing the goal and the main mechanisms of the game before talking about the rule book). It is often best to start with the main points before talking about the secondary points (e.g., other games by the same developer).
I share this opinion in the hope that you might find it useful to improve your content.
I found your critic of rule books relevant and interesting btw!
Thanks. I have a certain style that certainly isn’t for everyone. Some people really love it, others don’t.
You should definitely not watch my 40 minute review of Dungeon Degenerates in which I talk about everything except the game. Lol. :).
You read the manual before starting the diy project??? This is heresy and the deepest affront to the Dad Code.
I'm not a dad! :)
@@TheDungeonDive you get off on a technicality
I’m technically not a dad. Lol. That somehow sounds bad.
Hi, thanks for the video! Did you think about that house rule to use the equipment and upgrade cards in one off games?
I did not. I ended up selling the game. After boxing it up, I realized I probably wouldn't play it much, and it took up a lot of room.
Could you share which model of large Plano have you've got there with all the tokens?
Correction: the rhune on the bottom of an enemy isn't an alternative thing it happens after the main activation as an additional effect if that rhune is present.
Yeah. Must have just misspoke. That’s how I play and what I meant to say. Those powers trigger of the Rhune is present. Thanks! That’s no one ever should use my videos as a how to play thing. :).
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The Sadler brothers are terrible at writing rulebooks. The Warhammer Quest ACG rulebook(s) suffer from the same fate.
Do you still own this game or sold it? I have an offer to buy a KS copy but really undecided due to the repetitive gameplay of going through the mechanical process of each cards. It all feels very abstract which is fine but having minis and board, I would prefer a more immersive experience eg monsters attack with claws etc instead of just inflict. The whole threat token and supply token also contribute to the abstraction.
However I am still very much tempted due to the room feature minis and the boards which I plan to use for heroquest/warhammer quest games.
I sold it. Too mechanical for me.
I wasn’t a fan of this one. Too slow and predictable. I also found it too puzzly for my tastes. Sold my copy after a couple of plays. Certainly not a bad game - just not for me.
It is predictable. Probably goes along with its puzzly nature. You need to be able predict the puzzle to solve it.
I like puzzly/strategy games, but the mechanics in this game did not mesh well (at all) with the dungeon/fantasy aspect.
Basically what you experience within your first 5 minutes, is what you will be experiencing for the next 50 hours. It's really really repetitive.
Hmmm, that board sure reminds me of HeroQuest.
Hmmm, those miniatures sure remind me of HeroQuest.
Hmmm, that font sure reminds me of HeroQuest.
That rulebook is horrible. There should always be visual references in a rulebook.
Blacklist Games just hasn't made the right game yet that gets me excited to purchase.
The only think even remotely like HQ in the game, is the way the board is laid out. While playing, you won't be reminded of HQ at all. :) The board is my favorite thing about the game, and I'd love to see a similar thing in future games.
May I suggest for each equipment card selected add a enemy upgrade card?
Ha! That's exactly what I did! :) Seems to be OK.
The card decks facing different directions in your card wells bother me way more than they should...
Yes. That’s weird. :).
I think I will enjoy painting and playing this game. That said, I HATE bad rulebooks. There is no excuse for a lousy rulebook. Designers/publishers need to divorce themselves from the creation of the rulebook, as much as possible. As someone with a background in Instructional Design (ID), and who leads an organization of IDs, I experience this issue daily. Subject matter experts think that dumping their brain on paper equals quality training. It takes a technical writer with a solid understanding of learning theory and graphic design to balance that expertise and leverage it appropriately. I have suggested that game designers utilize IDs when building rulebooks, but the common objection is cost. I find that to be a weak argument. Contracting an ID would not be expensive, and many early career (or fresh out of school) IDs would do it free for their portfolio. Gamers, like myself, would do it for the joy.
Very well said! Thank you.
Watched numerous play throughs of this and I just think it looks so dull, I nearly backed it on Kickstarter and regretted not backing it but now I’m so glad I didn’t, must have been something that stopped me backing in the first place.
Did you end up keeping the game?
No. Sold it.
@@TheDungeonDive Thanks for the update! I haven't cracked it open yet. After watching many videos and reading up about it, I get the impression that at the very least, it's a divisive game. Space is limited, so I think I'm leaning towards selling my copy.
Yeah. Takes up a lot of space, and it’s a little dry for my liking. Solid game though.
The game is great. The rulebook is not. This was a rulebook begging for play examples.
Also I found this game incredibly thematic. I understand what you're saying in regards to flavor text on the enemy cards, but there is plenty of story on the quest cards. Also, I found it very easy to get immersed in the world.
I kind of regret not backing this one, still not a fan of the art style though.
It’s not great. Just kind of generic.
The rulebook is indeed somewhat boring to read, but the way you read a piece out loud for us, was a lot more boring than the text really is. When you talk about the game itself, you speak a lot less boring. Was that perhaps on purpose? 😉
I was conveying my experience.
@@TheDungeonDive That worked well :)
ACTING! :)
besides the fact that there are far superior games out there with regard to puzzle mechanics I absolutely HATE the theme of that game. Not only does it look ugly, I also don't think there is anything particular appealing in fighting frogs with halflings that have pretty much no lore that backs this up substantially to really draw me in. I am not surpised by the boring rulebook. The designer's are known for the focus on mechanics to the cost of deep lore, theme, and engaging story. Happy I did not back this.
I enjoyed their Warhammer Quest card game and am enjoying my 1st play of Altar Quest but different opinions and views are a good thing.
GL, HF and g'day to all.
Truth!
I like games that require more than throwing dice and reading, so this is up my alley 😃.
For example, I don't like Eldritch Horror because all I'm doing is moving, reading events and throwing dice mindlessly. C'mon, they're games, not books 😵.
One more remark: pigs and frogs are funny but all enemies decks are anthropomorphic animals, which makes the theme childish. I wonder why they went in these direction. It may be better than fighting generic goblins once more but still, it's not original. What come next, fighting giraffes?
I don’t think anthropomorphic animals are inherently childish. The original TMNT comic and After the Bomb RPG certainly aren’t childish. The skaven in Warhammer are downright evil!
@@TheDungeonDive You may be right. Maybe that's the style of the illustrations that produces this effect on me then. Some are bad, some are nice but most are bland. It's even more contrasting since I'm playing Dungeon Degenerates at the moment.
Well yeah. On that we agree. :).
awesome review and thank you for touching on the points related to map exploration and the decks. I'm hoping that they create a "deck building" component down the line. I'll keep watching it for now of course!