This episode is probably the best review of why not to buy that brand of autopilot. I've seen cheap tiller units last longer and wheel mounted versions last yrs. Few cruisers could afford to have purchased 3 autopilot units and would be stuck hand steering.
It almost seems like a quality-control issue in the manufacturing. Something isn't right here. A belowdecks AP should last more than a season or two. Even a cheap wheel pilot or tiller pilot out in the elements lasts a few years. I am interested in learning what exactly Mads finds out about what is behind these issues in the end.
I’m shocked that after all that work, you left the chain locker in that condition. I expected every surface of your boat to be food grade clean and smooth. Especially the parts that will never see the light of day. Excellent work my friend, I hope you get the sarcasm.
As far as the stiffness of the one unit I would inspect the bypass solenoid and valve. When there's no power applied this is what allows the fluid to flow between both sides of the RAM so that the steering can be free for manual use. Also I would just make sure that you have enough travel so that the unit can pivot fully as the rudder turns and doesn't side load The ram. I've done marine electronics for years and serviced dozens and dozens of autopilots, If I had a vote, as long as you're boat is within spec, I would go for a raymarine linear electric. It can easily be used with the Garmin electronics and they are bulletproof and very common. You also won't have to deal with seals or hydraulic oil. I have pulled many units out that were nearly 25 years old and just needed a cleaning and maybe a new set of brushes and we're good to go. I'm currently sailing full time in my unit is about 20 years old and still holding strong.
About the driveunit: I agree: check the by-pass valve. It probably spring return. On the other hand: the shaft seal should leak a little bit in order to keep it lubricated. Without lubrication the seal friction will become to high. Further the seal(s) should be made of material resistant to oil and water, which sets them apart from the standard hydraulic seals.
@@ame2deo I don't think the vibrations forces could overload the shaft: these forces will be very low as they occur when the rudder is more or less in balance.
@@ame2deo I don't think so because the rudder shaft really wasn't moving enough to overcome the play in the autopilot mount so even if the rudder was moving and direction it shouldn't have been in the shaft would have moved along with it rather than bent
In the most recent video (MAR 12 2023) of Sailing Parley Revival at about the 9 minute mark Colin made a point I had not considered about power usage of the autopilot and that the one he has can have the sensitivity turned down to save a massive amount of power as it is not constantly correcting minute movements, kinda like adding a little zig/zag to the course. That concept could help with wear and tear also. Not that it shouldn't be able to handle full load but it is something to consider as HyPro works out the bugs. I don't know if yours is hydraulic or servo driven but if hydraulic then the choice of piston seals, wear bands and backing rings will probably have a large effect on freewheeling action, which is not something normally considered when specifying seal components. Some exotic materials are probably in order from a design perspective to reduce drag, unless it has more to do with check valves and bypass relief component design. Cheers, I always love your detailed and technical upgrades!!!
Happy that Ava will be able to join you on your crossing, that was something I thought she needed to be a part of, and of course helping her family was too.
Agreed! I was disappointed when I learned, after all the prep she was involved in, that she'd miss out. ...and what a wonderful bonding opportunity for the young couple!
Do you have a windvane steering device? I seem to remember you ordering one in a past video. I can't imagine starting on a long passage without one. You could always get struck by lightning and lose all electrics. With a sextant, charts, and a hydrovane . . . you can sail oceans. And one little note. Minute rice is your friend at sea. You can add it to hot soups or sloppy stews to stiffen them up so they don't slop around. Okay, you did address this. I still wouldn't leave without a working hydrovane.
Always impressed by your down to earth approach - there's no hysterics - just a step by step logical and methodical assessment and deduction with sound reasoning and so good sailing.
You're a lot more cautious than me my friend. I would have just went and not worried about it. Hand steering may not be fun but you had enough help, but you do what makes you feel secure. Hope your crew enjoyed their visit.
I’d take the risk that both the autopilot and the wind vane could fail if it means making a crossing with two experienced hands. Mads rightfully is thinking about risk vs reward but he undervalues what his crew is worth.
First time I see a sailor with the risk aversion of a banker. Like, I have one autopilot with 2 spares, a windvane and two crew, it's like I am not crossing this road as sometimes tomorrow a little old lady may come along on her bicycle and hit me. Now what matters is what he thinks is right for him but it's very peculiar to watch.
@@pierrevanhalteren5733 Yeah I know, but this is his first crossing, and after all the orca scares, trust in the universe is naturally low. Also probably thinking about a permanent fix for everything while still on 'home ground' near Europe. Then there's Ava coming too.
I owned a leopard 40 cat and bought her 7 years ago and have sailed 25 000 nm with her and the Raymarine rotary drive autopilot motor pretty much the same as the Raymarine linear drive. I started moving a “mot stall” error on my Pilot head control about a year and a half ago (20 000) and took the unit apart and found the internal motor full of Carbon dust. I vacuumed it clean put it all together and it sailed across the Atlantic without a hitch last year Jan from Cape Town . That’s reliability !! You should not be having issues with your drive after so few nm unless it’s under specs.
Yes finding excuses it’s a mechanical thingy. it’s perfect until one uses it. I say to mat fix everything and store it. Next question is I see three of this items. 2 not good and one not used. Go with something different you know the definition that is doing same thing over and over again and expecting different results?
Well done Mads We all know you love your electronic gadgets and doohickies, But You always put the integrity and safety of your boat FIRST. Always an inspiration !! BTW Mads, you should check out a sailing channel called Refit and Sail... the guy is in the Uk, a proven sailor and craftsman. I think you two share many great qualities
Hey Mads, we painted our chain locker with a rubber paint after extending it. Mainly because the original was rubber coated, but also (after asking around) it turns out to be an old trick to stop the chain rattling in the locker at anchor!
Mads, before you rush over to the Caribbean pleas check out the reports about the 5,000 mile wide gigantic blob of sargassum seaweed that is off shore of Florida, Mexico and inundating the islands. This is not a joke! The thing is over 10 million tons of plantlife and is so big it can be seen from space.
Hej Mads. Har set hver eneste episode siden du begyndte på Obelix. Syntes er en hamrende dygtigt både bygger og trouble shooter. Men tænker at vedret. Styring går du både med 2 livremme og 2 seler. Du har en fungerende autopilot, et fungerende vindror og roret på din båd. Det er trods alt 3 alternativer. I er en besætning på 3 så det vil yderste konsekvens kun 2 x 4 timer ved roter hver dag, så ingen problemer med manglende søvn. Jeg sejlet på et fragtskib hvor vi pga nedbrud i styremaskinen, måtte håndstyre hele vejen fra Bounos Sairos til Bergen i Norge. Det var ok. Da min søn var lille sad jeg på vores sommerture ofte 8 timer ved roret hver dag, intet problem, jeg skriver kun dette for at sætte det hele lidt i perspektiv. Jeg ved du er en soocker efter gadgets, men alm sømandskab er også vigtigt.
I do alot of hydraulic work. Im betting the center rod/piston is not centered to the end-cap seal causing binding from not being concentric . This problem also will wear the seal out faster. One poor batch of machined cylinders, pistons or endcaps will do it
The videos are 3 weeks behind real-time right now (to "save up" videos for the crossing). The manufacturer have already refurbished the units. Mark was there while they took them apart. I don't have any photos I can share but I believe what you're suggesting here was at the very least a part of the problem. I believe the first unit was always doomed. I'm sure the steering issue we had on the way here didn't help the situation with the second unit but I don't think that should be enough to have the unit fail on us. Fingers crossed we have better luck with the 3rd unit :)
Hi Mads, please install a raymarine ev200 with type 1 linear drive as a separate spare. These units almost never fail. SV Delos sailed almost a full circumnavigation with only 1 unit and it was not broken yet. Have a good trip!
The plastic planetary wheels break in Those uniTs. Delos had some breakdowns and on my crossing saw 3 boats with similar units all break there planetary gears. Just go with a hydronic one.
Delos had a clutch faillure. Replacement is easily done by yourself and a spare takes almost no space. I have this driveunit since 2004 with no faillures and only upgraded the electronics to a ev200 because the old flux compass did a bad job steering in waves. (It turned out that only the cardanic hanging inside the flux compass unit came loose. So I could have saved on that upgrade but I’m still very happy wiht the ev200)
Ok this looks cooler has it. Happy you were able to get some sanding and grinding done. With out Ava you get some satisfaction. Strange how things work out.
For those that also watch Sam Holmes, we get both ends of the risk continuum. Both could use moving towards the center. Mads may never actually get to the Caribbean. Contrast with Sailing Yacht Florence who truly SAIL. Props to them all. Whatever works.
Mads, awesome that setbacks have their own silver linings. Glad things are working out for your maiden Atlantic crossing. Looking forward to some "cool" DIY episodes.
Yea! Ava's returning. She is definitely a better travel tour guide with her various interests. Also, the two of you can make the major portion of the crossing together. Your "new country" ritual will return - whether we see it or not.
No offense Mads, but the exploration videos are more fun to watch when Ava is along. I'm surprised the manufacturer of those auto pilots doesn't warranty them and ship new units. You have sunk a ton of money into those things. If Ava brings a new one that'll be 4 units? Insane! I don't think the rudder shaft being a little wobbly would have caused the one unit to fail, they encounter more water force on the rudder than a little wobble would induce. Great idea replacing the anchor well floor. The amount of mold that would have introduced would have resulted in many more woes later on. I'm curious what this AC unit is going to look like, haven't seen one for a boat before.
it seems possible that the same will happen again in the chain locker if the problem was not delimitation of the tabbing as much as cracking in the filet from flexing. It may. have cracked much of the way around, or been weekend by the drain hole. Either way, the hole itself is not reinforced by an glass fiber, so the filet the hole goes through can crack easily. since the bottom of the hole is only filet, you get a leak into the lower chamber. You might consider drilling a bigger hole and laminating from the locker to the outside, and drilling into that, so that the frain is passing through only laminated glass.
Mads I’ve encounter a similar problem before with actuators. The autopilot ram seems to have a lot of deflection fore and aft while moving the quadrant. According to the drive units specs +-10° of movement is acceptable, although any adverse deflection can easily hurt seals, bend the ram, or cause it to seize. If the problem persists potentially try rotating the actuator mount to be in line with the quadrant. Meaning the pin the actuator mounts on is now vertical putting it better in line with the quadrant. The thought being free rotation fore and aft and more stiffness up and down, hopefully putting less strains on the actuator itself.
Before I bought my autopilot, 4 years ago, I heard from a lot of people that "the Garmin driver" was problematic, I went with the ray marine because they had a good reputation over here, never had a problem with it, and I guess the comments were right about the Garmin.
I'm glad things are working out and love the positive attitude! Glad Ava's going to make the crossing with you too. Looking forward to going on this journey with you guys.
Hi Mads, I'd suggest a trusty CPT autopilot as your primary backup. CPT is a heavy-duty wheel pilot that can live in it's box in storage until you need it. Another option is a cheap tiller pilot that can be fixed to either your wheel, emergency tiller, or your windvane.
Really enjoy your videos ,definitely worth watching informative and lots of facts about product quality and repair process in different places...you both will always get a thumbs up like from me👍👍👍👍
Hi, There is a bypass valve that should open when the unit is powered down, so you can steer manually without reistance. If it is not opening that could explain why it is stiff.
Well your just a brilliant dude Mads!! An I feel this was the way it was supposed to be Ava wanted so bad to go an you wanted her too go!! An fate said... More glorious boat work!!! ✌🏼💗😊⛵
Are the travel limits for the autopilot set in the unit or the control head? Is it possible the unit has been over pressurised? I still prefer a seperate ‘standard’ hydraulic cylinder and generic pump.
I always try to get the maintenance manual for any product that I buy. I then download the pdf onto the computer hard drive/SSD and have it to reference maintenance issues. Of course, they are not always available. Good luck.
Nice videos. Only one question: honoured as a Greek, but how comes and named your 🥰 lovely boat after the name of Athena, capital of Greece. Fair winds and best regards
Any thoughts about his time of arrival in the Caribbean and the start of hurricane season? What are reasonable options for him here? Will he end up having to postpone departure until December?
Put a thick corkplate with some drain holes on the bottom of the chain locker to protect your chain locker from being weard done by the chain. Cork will not rot and can not burn.....
I was going to suggest checking the current draw of the hard to move unit and compare it to the spec sheet, but since their customer service seems quite great, maybe there is no point. A unit like this, I am sure it costs a pretty penny, should give you tons of perfect service. As a side note, I bought a 1982 Beneteau First 35 and sailed it from Norway to Portugal, last summer, using a very old, possibly original Autohelm belt driven unit, which soldiered on through most coditions without complaining. I was impressed. Simple, electric, dead accurate.
Great videos as always Mads. Any details or description on how you went about coming up with the chain locker drain hole? I have the same issue with my boat where the water in the chain locker drains out to the bilge. I'd like to change that and have it drain out from the locker itself. Is it just a matter of drilling a hole above the water line to allow the water to drain out and raising the locker floor to the drain-hole level>? My worry is you'll get water coming in as the bow plows through the waves or is heeling over on that tack. Scary thought drilling an open hole on the side of your boat.
I noticed that the autopilot pivots slightly fore and aft, but the pivot shaft is set up for an up and down pivot. Could this be putting sideways pressure on the seal? Bending the shaft of the stiff one?
Ron E Been watching your episodes for about 2 years, and love them. In one of your earlier episodes you installed a cover in an opening in the gangway. I have a similar opening in the V-berth to the anchor chain locker and would like to build a cover. How were you about to secure the cover in the opening - hinges, or stops ?
Another great video Mads . An over size o ring in the drive unit can be the problem . Or the wrong type of o ring for the fluid used in the drive unit .
It seems feasible that the rudder stock movement you had could have induced a load on the hydraulic drive that was out of line with the direction of travel producing a side load on the seal causing it to fail prematurely. I probably would have taken both bad units to that shop to see if they could use the seal from the one that didn't leak or some combination of parts to make one good unit. I think within a day or two, they could have had you up and running. This is a concerning issue as I am upgrading my electronics soon and this would be the autopilot drive that would come with the system. I am behind on the videos, but I hope you keep us updated with the findings from the manufacturer.
could you make a video on your safety setup? like MOB location/recovery; distress calling (EPIRB/PLBs); lifevests and what's on them additionally mounted; liferaft and grab/ditch bag; signaling fireworks; fire extinguisher(s); etc.. as you seem to be taking safety seriously I'd like to hear your thoughts on different strategies you've been thinking about while implementing your system. As I'm now in the process of assembling mine, so very much interested on the topic :) cheers!
I know he covered the ditch bag within the last year or two. Locator devices several times (once before his ill fated attempt to cross the Atlantic on someone elses boat many years ago) and again before or during their first bit of sailing from Denmark to the UK. I think he also covered MOB tracking devices on their flotation gear within the last 2 years too.
@@Baba3756-n2o I do my own research of course, but at same time seeing how he is doing his projects I would like to hear his strategy and reasonings behind it. Many practical ideas come from casual youtubers, their different applications and experiences.
Hydraulic problems are always fun when there’s time. Could it be the seals, valves or the shaft or even hydraulic fluid. I’ve known of certain problems when two different brands of hydraulic fluids when mixed caused some problems or shafts had irregular finish that caused problems with seals… lots of fun.
Unfortunately I’ve had many problems with garmin equipments. Two chartplotters, one radar and one AIS. Changing everything to Raymarine. Hopefully you won’t have any problem during the crossing.
There are no perfect dynamic seals, all dynamic seals leak to some degree. A few drops of oil is to be expected. Seal leakage increases with use/wear and contamination. An airborne culprit could be fiberglass or other dust particles that naturally stick to the oil damp rod. A rubber or fabric bellows cover is sometimes used, but those have to breathe, so effectiveness is limited.
Personally, I think you and Athena needs a longer shake down cruise. If it were me, I would head east. Spend the next 6 to 12 months in the Mediterranean. If anything goes wrong with a European made boat with European parts, Europe is not far away. And The Greek Islands are worth a visit. And I think many of your followers would love to see your take on the Mediterranean. And you can get more sailing practice there, with less risk, not just motoring.... Then, once things are checked out and verified, do the Atlantic crossing. 🙂
You are doing a great job. I love your videos because your diy are very good explained and you keep up the speed. Compliment for all your video’s, I bing watched many of them.😅
I know the failures are an annoyance everyone could do without and the worry of further failure is not ideal but good to see that the maker is on side. A huge bonus that your wife now gets to experience your first Atlantic crossing with you ❤
generally when you have a binding like you have on the first auto it boils down to a bent control rod. It binds as it is moved. The two oil leaks is generally a bad batch of o rings - not up to specs
It's a bit after the common season for Atlantic crossings now right? Still well before hurricane season though. I wonder if there are any considerations or routing changes you need to make going at this time?
There shouldn't be an issue crossing now or in April for that matter :) The only reason people tend to cross in november and december is to have time in the Caribbean before hurricane season.
I am working on install of the same drive....look at mounting the unit 90deg. There is (perhaps) enough rotation in that configuration, at 1.5deg but there is much more turned.
That is true and I believe that is typically how the units are installed but we are well within spec (allowing up to 8 degrees of center). As long as we're within that according to the manufacturer there should be no issue in installing the unit the way we have :)
"Get home Itus" or in your case "Get going Itus" can be a very Deadly Disease. With the pressure of your companions having only a limited time, talking with the Manufacturer and lack of parts, possible wind vane problems, weather............. very hard but excellent decision to delay.
Just so you know - polyester resins really have trouble sticking to epoxy. Maybe well cured epoxy (like 1 week cured) and well scrubbed. But the next day gelcoating is more likely to peel right off in a year or more.
This episode is probably the best review of why not to buy that brand of autopilot. I've seen cheap tiller units last longer and wheel mounted versions last yrs. Few cruisers could afford to have purchased 3 autopilot units and would be stuck hand steering.
How very true!
its not a good advert for what should be very simple kit the tech is decades old... seal dont just wear out with out some obvious cause.
Agreed. I'm lucky to have a hydraulic autopilot with separate pump.
Buy your autopilot from China at least you know it’s going to fail.
It almost seems like a quality-control issue in the manufacturing. Something isn't right here. A belowdecks AP should last more than a season or two. Even a cheap wheel pilot or tiller pilot out in the elements lasts a few years.
I am interested in learning what exactly Mads finds out about what is behind these issues in the end.
But Mads why do you need a working auto-pilot, and a spare for that autopilot and also the windvane (because you do have a windvane)?
I’m shocked that after all that work, you left the chain locker in that condition. I expected every surface of your boat to be food grade clean and smooth. Especially the parts that will never see the light of day. Excellent work my friend, I hope you get the sarcasm.
Needs to add a velvet pillow for the chain.
As far as the stiffness of the one unit I would inspect the bypass solenoid and valve. When there's no power applied this is what allows the fluid to flow between both sides of the RAM so that the steering can be free for manual use. Also I would just make sure that you have enough travel so that the unit can pivot fully as the rudder turns and doesn't side load The ram.
I've done marine electronics for years and serviced dozens and dozens of autopilots, If I had a vote, as long as you're boat is within spec, I would go for a raymarine linear electric. It can easily be used with the Garmin electronics and they are bulletproof and very common. You also won't have to deal with seals or hydraulic oil. I have pulled many units out that were nearly 25 years old and just needed a cleaning and maybe a new set of brushes and we're good to go. I'm currently sailing full time in my unit is about 20 years old and still holding strong.
About the driveunit: I agree: check the by-pass valve. It probably spring return. On the other hand: the shaft seal should leak a little bit in order to keep it lubricated. Without lubrication the seal friction will become to high. Further the seal(s) should be made of material resistant to oil and water, which sets them apart from the standard hydraulic seals.
couldn't it be a bent shaft due to the stress of the shakin rudder?
@@ame2deo I don't think the vibrations forces could overload the shaft: these forces will be very low as they occur when the rudder is more or less in balance.
@@ame2deo I don't think so because the rudder shaft really wasn't moving enough to overcome the play in the autopilot mount so even if the rudder was moving and direction it shouldn't have been in the shaft would have moved along with it rather than bent
In the most recent video (MAR 12 2023) of Sailing Parley Revival at about the 9 minute mark Colin made a point I had not considered about power usage of the autopilot and that the one he has can have the sensitivity turned down to save a massive amount of power as it is not constantly correcting minute movements, kinda like adding a little zig/zag to the course. That concept could help with wear and tear also. Not that it shouldn't be able to handle full load but it is something to consider as HyPro works out the bugs. I don't know if yours is hydraulic or servo driven but if hydraulic then the choice of piston seals, wear bands and backing rings will probably have a large effect on freewheeling action, which is not something normally considered when specifying seal components. Some exotic materials are probably in order from a design perspective to reduce drag, unless it has more to do with check valves and bypass relief component design. Cheers, I always love your detailed and technical upgrades!!!
Happy that Ava will be able to join you on your crossing, that was something I thought she needed to be a part of, and of course helping her family was too.
Great news that Ava can join you
Agreed! I was disappointed when I learned, after all the prep she was involved in, that she'd miss out. ...and what a wonderful bonding opportunity for the young couple!
Yeah the boss is back now we'll get some things done.😅
Do you have a windvane steering device? I seem to remember you ordering one in a past video. I can't imagine starting on a long passage without one. You could always get struck by lightning and lose all electrics. With a sextant, charts, and a hydrovane . . . you can sail oceans.
And one little note. Minute rice is your friend at sea. You can add it to hot soups or sloppy stews to stiffen them up so they don't slop around.
Okay, you did address this. I still wouldn't leave without a working hydrovane.
Always impressed by your down to earth approach - there's no hysterics - just a step by step logical and methodical assessment and deduction with sound reasoning and so good sailing.
You're a lot more cautious than me my friend. I would have just went and not worried about it. Hand steering may not be fun but you had enough help, but you do what makes you feel secure.
Hope your crew enjoyed their visit.
doenst need to hand steer, theres also a windvane....this is all delays
I’d take the risk that both the autopilot and the wind vane could fail if it means making a crossing with two experienced hands. Mads rightfully is thinking about risk vs reward but he undervalues what his crew is worth.
First time I see a sailor with the risk aversion of a banker. Like, I have one autopilot with 2 spares, a windvane and two crew, it's like I am not crossing this road as sometimes tomorrow a little old lady may come along on her bicycle and hit me. Now what matters is what he thinks is right for him but it's very peculiar to watch.
@@pierrevanhalteren5733 Yeah I know, but this is his first crossing, and after all the orca scares, trust in the universe is naturally low. Also probably thinking about a permanent fix for everything while still on 'home ground' near Europe. Then there's Ava coming too.
@@dbhyslop not a freshly painted chain locker... obviously
I owned a leopard 40 cat and bought her 7 years ago and have sailed 25 000 nm with her and the Raymarine rotary drive autopilot motor pretty much the same as the Raymarine linear drive. I started moving a “mot stall” error on my Pilot head control about a year and a half ago (20 000) and took the unit apart and found the internal motor full of Carbon dust. I vacuumed it clean put it all together and it sailed across the Atlantic without a hitch last year Jan from Cape Town . That’s reliability !! You should not be having issues with your drive after so few nm unless it’s under specs.
I predict a few weeks of DIY, followed by lack of weather windows, followed by the Atlantic window being gone.
I hope not 🤞 We should still be able to get a good weather window late March or early April.
Yes finding excuses it’s a mechanical thingy. it’s perfect until one uses it. I say to mat fix everything and store it. Next question is I see three of this items. 2 not good and one not used. Go with something different you know the definition that is doing same thing over and over again and expecting different results?
Merci beaucoup ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Well done Mads
We all know you love your electronic gadgets and doohickies,
But
You always put the integrity and safety of your boat FIRST.
Always an inspiration !!
BTW Mads, you should check out a sailing channel called Refit and Sail... the guy is in the Uk, a proven sailor and craftsman. I think you two share many great qualities
Hey Mads, we painted our chain locker with a rubber paint after extending it. Mainly because the original was rubber coated, but also (after asking around) it turns out to be an old trick to stop the chain rattling in the locker at anchor!
As a Certified Prosthetist I use basalt fiber to make prostheses. It’s great stuff! So excited to see Ava back on board! 🇨🇦
Jeez, I'm glad that I have Raymarine drive unit, much more silent and no issues for 5 years on a way heavier boat.
I just splashed and went full-time I would love to cross paths somewhere on the big blue stay safe out there
Congratulations.Well done. I am hoping to splash for full time in April 🤞
Mads, before you rush over to the Caribbean pleas check out the reports about the 5,000 mile wide gigantic blob of sargassum seaweed that is off shore of Florida, Mexico and inundating the islands. This is not a joke! The thing is over 10 million tons of plantlife and is so big it can be seen from space.
Hej Mads. Har set hver eneste episode siden du begyndte på Obelix. Syntes er en hamrende dygtigt både bygger og trouble shooter. Men tænker at vedret. Styring går du både med 2 livremme og 2 seler. Du har en fungerende autopilot, et fungerende vindror og roret på din båd. Det er trods alt 3 alternativer. I er en besætning på 3 så det vil yderste konsekvens kun 2 x 4 timer ved roter hver dag, så ingen problemer med manglende søvn. Jeg sejlet på et fragtskib hvor vi pga nedbrud i styremaskinen, måtte håndstyre hele vejen fra Bounos Sairos til Bergen i Norge. Det var ok. Da min søn var lille sad jeg på vores sommerture ofte 8 timer ved roret hver dag, intet problem, jeg skriver kun dette for at sætte det hele lidt i perspektiv. Jeg ved du er en soocker efter gadgets, men alm sømandskab er også vigtigt.
I do alot of hydraulic work. Im betting the center rod/piston is not centered to the end-cap seal causing binding from not being concentric . This problem also will wear the seal out faster. One poor batch of machined cylinders, pistons or endcaps will do it
The videos are 3 weeks behind real-time right now (to "save up" videos for the crossing). The manufacturer have already refurbished the units. Mark was there while they took them apart. I don't have any photos I can share but I believe what you're suggesting here was at the very least a part of the problem. I believe the first unit was always doomed. I'm sure the steering issue we had on the way here didn't help the situation with the second unit but I don't think that should be enough to have the unit fail on us. Fingers crossed we have better luck with the 3rd unit :)
Great tech stuff Mads. Thanks for sharing. Always like to see anything technical :) Looking forward to the AC install!
Cheers, Sev
Hi Mads, please install a raymarine ev200 with type 1 linear drive as a separate spare. These units almost never fail. SV Delos sailed almost a full circumnavigation with only 1 unit and it was not broken yet. Have a good trip!
The plastic planetary wheels break in Those uniTs. Delos had some breakdowns and on my crossing saw 3 boats with similar units all break there planetary gears. Just go with a hydronic one.
They have now already long time brass planetary gears.
Delos had a clutch faillure. Replacement is easily done by yourself and a spare takes almost no space. I have this driveunit since 2004 with no faillures and only upgraded the electronics to a ev200 because the old flux compass did a bad job steering in waves. (It turned out that only the cardanic hanging inside the flux compass unit came loose. So I could have saved on that upgrade but I’m still very happy wiht the ev200)
NICE that Eva is joining you for such an important and “National Geographic” moment. That’s what I always called and adventure.
Ok this looks cooler has it. Happy you were able to get some sanding and grinding done. With out Ava you get some satisfaction. Strange how things work out.
Man I love your positive attitude
For those that also watch Sam Holmes, we get both ends of the risk continuum. Both could use moving towards the center. Mads may never actually get to the Caribbean. Contrast with Sailing Yacht Florence who truly SAIL. Props to them all. Whatever works.
Another great video! Thanks for all.
Plan "A" was a good one but I like plan "C" better. Stay safe and we'll see you next week.
Hang in there, Mads. I'm with you and your desire to have backups for essential equipment.
Mads, awesome that setbacks have their own silver linings. Glad things are working out for your maiden Atlantic crossing. Looking forward to some "cool" DIY episodes.
I think I heard you say "Man Glitter" ha ha, that's funny! I spent 8 hours making man glitter inside a small boat last weekend! Was great fun!
Every cloud has a silver lining, It’s great Ava will be back with you on the Atlantic crossing.
Yea! Ava's returning. She is definitely a better travel tour guide with her various interests. Also, the two of you can make the major portion of the crossing together. Your "new country" ritual will return - whether we see it or not.
Wait, you took my comments right out of my mind. Good job.
@@JY-mq5lg Ava and Mads make a great couple.
I am so glad Ava is returning.
Third! Great news about Ava joining you soon for the Atlantic crossing. Excellent!
Yesss! Ava's coming back!
No offense Mads, but the exploration videos are more fun to watch when Ava is along. I'm surprised the manufacturer of those auto pilots doesn't warranty them and ship new units. You have sunk a ton of money into those things. If Ava brings a new one that'll be 4 units? Insane! I don't think the rudder shaft being a little wobbly would have caused the one unit to fail, they encounter more water force on the rudder than a little wobble would induce. Great idea replacing the anchor well floor. The amount of mold that would have introduced would have resulted in many more woes later on. I'm curious what this AC unit is going to look like, haven't seen one for a boat before.
That chain locker puts me into anchor locker shame. Excellent work Mads.
When Ava returns I'll re subscribe...
It’s a good thing you’re mechanically inclined. Good luck making the necessary repairs prior to your next adventure.
Hi , always fun and interesting to watch , yes things fail , but the auto steering , will be another reason to keep following you and Ava . 😉👍👍
it seems possible that the same will happen again in the chain locker if the problem was not delimitation of the tabbing as much as cracking in the filet from flexing. It may. have cracked much of the way around, or been weekend by the drain hole. Either way, the hole itself is not reinforced by an glass fiber, so the filet the hole goes through can crack easily. since the bottom of the hole is only filet, you get a leak into the lower chamber. You might consider drilling a bigger hole and laminating from the locker to the outside, and drilling into that, so that the frain is passing through only laminated glass.
You are going to need a bigger boat for all the autopilots !
Haha 😂
Mads I’ve encounter a similar problem before with actuators. The autopilot ram seems to have a lot of deflection fore and aft while moving the quadrant. According to the drive units specs +-10° of movement is acceptable, although any adverse deflection can easily hurt seals, bend the ram, or cause it to seize.
If the problem persists potentially try rotating the actuator mount to be in line with the quadrant. Meaning the pin the actuator mounts on is now vertical putting it better in line with the quadrant. The thought being free rotation fore and aft and more stiffness up and down, hopefully putting less strains on the actuator itself.
I adore this channel... A huge help to my soon to start project! Thank you!
Before I bought my autopilot, 4 years ago, I heard from a lot of people that "the Garmin driver" was problematic, I went with the ray marine because they had a good reputation over here, never had a problem with it, and I guess the comments were right about the Garmin.
I'm glad things are working out and love the positive attitude! Glad Ava's going to make the crossing with you too. Looking forward to going on this journey with you guys.
Hi Mads, I'd suggest a trusty CPT autopilot as your primary backup. CPT is a heavy-duty wheel pilot that can live in it's box in storage until you need it. Another option is a cheap tiller pilot that can be fixed to either your wheel, emergency tiller, or your windvane.
Great episode
Great video !
Excessive weather helm can damage autopilots pretty easily. sail trim, sail trim, sail trim.
Really enjoy your videos ,definitely worth watching informative and lots of facts about product quality and repair process in different places...you both will always get a thumbs up like from me👍👍👍👍
I love Ava's tours. So glad she will be able to do the crossing. It is quite an experience.
The tough to push and pull could have a bent piston. The two flaws are to be connected with the rudder shacking under load.
Hi,
There is a bypass valve that should open when the unit is powered down, so you can steer manually without reistance. If it is not opening that could explain why it is stiff.
Hooray! definitely a silver lining for Ava. 2 dodgy autopilot drive units does not bode well, Induction motor and chain me thinks... keep it simple.
Well your just a brilliant dude Mads!! An I feel this was the way it was supposed to be Ava wanted so bad to go an you wanted her too go!! An fate said... More glorious boat work!!! ✌🏼💗😊⛵
Are the travel limits for the autopilot set in the unit or the control head? Is it possible the unit has been over pressurised? I still prefer a seperate ‘standard’ hydraulic cylinder and generic pump.
I always try to get the maintenance manual for any product that I buy. I then download the pdf onto the computer hard drive/SSD and have it to reference maintenance issues. Of course, they are not always available. Good luck.
Nice videos. Only one question: honoured as a Greek, but how comes and named your 🥰 lovely boat after the name of Athena, capital of Greece. Fair winds and best regards
I hope that you get to the bottom of why the auto helms have these issues
Any thoughts about his time of arrival in the Caribbean and the start of hurricane season? What are reasonable options for him here? Will he end up having to postpone departure until December?
How bummed out were the crew not being able to cross the Atlantic?
Excellent video thanks Mads.
Great video! Bummer about the drive units. Leaks are no fun, but I've always assumed some leakage is normal for all hydraulics.
Put a thick corkplate with some drain holes on the bottom of the chain locker to protect your chain locker from being weard done by the chain. Cork will not rot and can not burn.....
Awesome news on stuff. I assume you arrived well before we see. Enjoy.
Hope the new steering works well. Thanks for the update, and excited Ava can join you. (Leg Cramp) been there, Lol
I was going to suggest checking the current draw of the hard to move unit and compare it to the spec sheet, but since their customer service seems quite great, maybe there is no point. A unit like this, I am sure it costs a pretty penny, should give you tons of perfect service. As a side note, I bought a 1982 Beneteau First 35 and sailed it from Norway to Portugal, last summer, using a very old, possibly original Autohelm belt driven unit, which soldiered on through most coditions without complaining. I was impressed. Simple, electric, dead accurate.
Are they sending you a new wind vane rudder to your current location? Hope so.
Great videos as always Mads. Any details or description on how you went about coming up with the chain locker drain hole? I have the same issue with my boat where the water in the chain locker drains out to the bilge. I'd like to change that and have it drain out from the locker itself. Is it just a matter of drilling a hole above the water line to allow the water to drain out and raising the locker floor to the drain-hole level>? My worry is you'll get water coming in as the bow plows through the waves or is heeling over on that tack. Scary thought drilling an open hole on the side of your boat.
Good work Mads
I noticed that the autopilot pivots slightly fore and aft, but the pivot shaft is set up for an up and down pivot. Could this be putting sideways pressure on the seal? Bending the shaft of the stiff one?
Ron E
Been watching your episodes for about 2 years, and love them. In one of your earlier episodes you installed a cover in an opening in the gangway. I have a similar opening in the V-berth to the anchor chain locker and would like to build a cover. How were you about to secure the cover in the opening - hinges, or stops ?
Check the cylinders in and out valves. It looks like there is an obstruction for the flow of hydraulic fluid.
Another great video Mads .
An over size o ring in the drive unit can be the problem .
Or the wrong type of o ring for the fluid used in the drive unit .
It seems feasible that the rudder stock movement you had could have induced a load on the hydraulic drive that was out of line with the direction of travel producing a side load on the seal causing it to fail prematurely. I probably would have taken both bad units to that shop to see if they could use the seal from the one that didn't leak or some combination of parts to make one good unit. I think within a day or two, they could have had you up and running. This is a concerning issue as I am upgrading my electronics soon and this would be the autopilot drive that would come with the system. I am behind on the videos, but I hope you keep us updated with the findings from the manufacturer.
great video. good luck on repairs.
could you make a video on your safety setup? like MOB location/recovery; distress calling (EPIRB/PLBs); lifevests and what's on them additionally mounted; liferaft and grab/ditch bag; signaling fireworks; fire extinguisher(s); etc.. as you seem to be taking safety seriously I'd like to hear your thoughts on different strategies you've been thinking about while implementing your system. As I'm now in the process of assembling mine, so very much interested on the topic :) cheers!
Just an FYI- he has covered most of that already
@@WaterFaucet24 oh, I only found some 7 year old videos from another boat. I shall search more. thanks
I know he covered the ditch bag within the last year or two. Locator devices several times (once before his ill fated attempt to cross the Atlantic on someone elses boat many years ago) and again before or during their first bit of sailing from Denmark to the UK. I think he also covered MOB tracking devices on their flotation gear within the last 2 years too.
Why would you take safety advice from an inexperienced novice cruiser TH-camr? There are so many other better resources.
@@Baba3756-n2o I do my own research of course, but at same time seeing how he is doing his projects I would like to hear his strategy and reasonings behind it. Many practical ideas come from casual youtubers, their different applications and experiences.
Hydraulic problems are always fun when there’s time. Could it be the seals, valves or the shaft or even hydraulic fluid. I’ve known of certain problems when two different brands of hydraulic fluids when mixed caused some problems or shafts had irregular finish that caused problems with seals… lots of fun.
Wow 😮
What a frustrating situation!!!
Unfortunately I’ve had many problems with garmin equipments. Two chartplotters, one radar and one AIS. Changing everything to Raymarine. Hopefully you won’t have any problem during the crossing.
There are no perfect dynamic seals, all dynamic seals leak to some degree. A few drops of oil is to be expected.
Seal leakage increases with use/wear and contamination. An airborne culprit could be fiberglass or other dust particles that naturally stick to the oil damp rod.
A rubber or fabric bellows cover is sometimes used, but those have to breathe, so effectiveness is limited.
You can always hand steer with three crew or arrange sheet to tiller steering. Plenary of redundancy.
If I were to guess, the piston rod in the "stiff" autopilot drive unit is probably bent or the gearbox on the end isn't properly shimmed/lashed.
Personally, I think you and Athena needs a longer shake down cruise.
If it were me, I would head east. Spend the next 6 to 12 months in the Mediterranean. If anything goes wrong with a European made boat with European parts, Europe is not far away. And The Greek Islands are worth a visit. And I think many of your followers would love to see your take on the Mediterranean. And you can get more sailing practice there, with less risk, not just motoring....
Then, once things are checked out and verified, do the Atlantic crossing. 🙂
Thanks
You are doing a great job. I love your videos because your diy are very good explained and you keep up the speed. Compliment for all your video’s, I bing watched many of them.😅
I wonder if the chamber with the oil is overfilled and is creating suction/ resistance. Looking forward to the answers
I know the failures are an annoyance everyone could do without and the worry of further failure is not ideal but good to see that the maker is on side.
A huge bonus that your wife now gets to experience your first Atlantic crossing with you ❤
Nice that she can go with u so that part cool
generally when you have a binding like you have on the first auto it boils down to a bent control rod. It binds as it is moved. The two oil leaks is generally a bad batch of o rings - not up to specs
It's a bit after the common season for Atlantic crossings now right? Still well before hurricane season though. I wonder if there are any considerations or routing changes you need to make going at this time?
There shouldn't be an issue crossing now or in April for that matter :) The only reason people tend to cross in november and december is to have time in the Caribbean before hurricane season.
I am working on install of the same drive....look at mounting the unit 90deg. There is (perhaps) enough rotation in that configuration, at 1.5deg but there is much more turned.
That is true and I believe that is typically how the units are installed but we are well within spec (allowing up to 8 degrees of center). As long as we're within that according to the manufacturer there should be no issue in installing the unit the way we have :)
Hi, maybe you should go for a new brand for your autopilot, check out Lecomble & Schmitt (Sailing Mana said it was great). Fair winds
Be safe and well friends.
Good on HiPro. It is in their best interest anyway. If there's an inherent flaw. Best to know now before they get hammered with warranty claims.
"Get home Itus" or in your case "Get going Itus" can be a very Deadly Disease. With the pressure of your companions having only a limited time, talking with the Manufacturer and lack of parts, possible wind vane problems, weather............. very hard but excellent decision to delay.
Just so you know - polyester resins really have trouble sticking to epoxy. Maybe well cured epoxy (like 1 week cured) and well scrubbed. But the next day gelcoating is more likely to peel right off in a year or more.
A cruising tradition --- fixing your boat in exotic places.