I agree with your assessment. This is how I see the Piloting situation as well as any situation. PACE= Primary, Alternate, Contingency, and Emergency. For Steering it is as follows, I have a catamaran. P= 1st Autopilot/ Hydraulic Steering A= 2nd AutoPilot/ Hydraulic Steering C= Hand Steering E= Hand Steering and hand held GPS. I realize a Cat vs a Mono is different and I really wish we had a Wind Vane for Cats. Wind Vanes are amazing as they are simple mechanical systems that are easy to understand and repair at sea. Love your videos please keep it up and I will see you on the water or on TH-cam. By the way I wish you would curse more, makes it realistic.
Excellent comparison, Nick. A couple of points that I would add in regards to vane steering. The first is that not only are they far, far more reliable than autopilots, but should something break, you can actually fix it, usually without having to order parts from half a world away. The other is that in general, vanes do poorly in light winds. You can rig a tiller pilot to replace the actual wind vane, but on some units like our Monitor (uses lines to the wheel instead of an auxiliary rudder) , unless the boat speed is at least 2 3/4 kts, the paddle in the water just doesn't have enough force to turn the wheel. One last comment on rigging a tiller pilot to the vane steering is that it is a cheap backup should your electronic autopilot fail. On our last boat, we made it all the way down to Panama using that setup. In conclusion, people should understand that vane steering and electronic autopilots don't compete with each other, they complement each other. In areas where one is weak the other is strong and vice versa.
As always, it's nice to have both. I did a good few years with just a vane gear....but eventually got an autopilot. Thing with an autopilot, it uses a LOT of electricity.....so best when you are under power....which of course is when the vane gear will not work. Ocean sailing is not always 'sailing'. In 1981, the year of the first El Nino....I left Cabo San Lucas for the Marquesas...a classic Trade Wind route. The wind quit about 3degrees North and we motored the rest of the way. (55' Herreshoff schooner, with a 1800 mile range under power.) It was VERY nice to have the autopilot then.
We'll ocean sailing is MOSTLY sailing unless you are carrying a heck of a lot of extra fuel! Not many sailboats can do anything close to 1800 miles under power!
The autopilot won't keep the sails in trim, the wind vane won't keep you on course when the wind (or tide) changes and just lashing the wheel won't do either, but will allow you to rest while the boat goes more or less in the right direction. So probably best is a wind vane with a course plotter that gives an audible warning when you go off course, so you can reset the wind vane and trim the sails.
The best autopilots will steer to a wind angle as well as a self steer. In addition, with properly trimmed sails on a boat that balances well, the autopilot should have to work very little, certainly less than 5 amps per hour. They do break to often, on that I do agree. We have replaced two of them in 'exotic' places over a 8 year period. Fitting a self steer to our transom is a complex and expensive proposition so that does have to be a consideration when considering what to do. Good info that you have provided.
Thanks for the information. Really enjoy the tec. videos. They provide a real persons experience rather than the information gleaned from reading promotional sources that are just trying to sell you something. Thanks again!
wind vane contra autopilot. A combination of wind rudder and autopilot is by far the best and most economical both in terms of price and durability. I used the smallest Autohelm 800 which in connection with wind plate fully controlled the course of the boat. My wind rudder is an Aries that works in the same way as almost all other wind rudders
Two points: with self steering, if the wind shifts 90 degrees, you will have an unexpected course change. Second, in 1984 sailing a Bowman 47 yawl across the pond, bottom half of Hydrovave rudder sheared off. The two of us hand steered for 15 days. Not sure of age of that unit, old GFR tech for certain but point is anything can break. Well spoken. Thank you.
Thankyou for this clear and concise explaination of the difference between electonic and mechanical auto steering. I recently purchased a 38' steel hulled sloop with these two features and was uncertain as to their reliabilty and function. I am learning as I go and your instructional videos are fantastic for a novice such as me. Keep them coming, they are great.
@@sailingrubyrose Wow, that was a quick response. Thankyou for the reply. My boat is moored in Lake Macquarie (NSW Australia) about a ten minute drive from my home. She is a fixer upper and I am enjoying the job of getting her ship shape. As I work my way through the boat am becoming more and more familiar with her idiosyncracies which I imagine are inherent in each and every vessel. I trust that you are both well and enjoying yourselves out there wherever you are at the moment, where is that by the way? Regards from Gary
Nick, well done! Best presentation I have see explaining the benefits and limits of each system. I have two auto pilots and a Monitor wind vain and use them as you brilliantly described.
Excellent review by Nick. I have learnt that wind vane steering is a bit iffy upwind which is a surprise as I had thought it was the other way round. However it might mean I'll spend a bit longer waiting for a weather window and probably enjoy passages a bit more.
Excellent, really helpful. Thank you. I now get why self steer devices exist - other than as a “no power needed” option. Lots to think about... Another terrific techie Tuesday episode 😊
Having both is a good idea since while sailing self-steering is great, if you're motoring to make a passage while becalmed or heading for shelter you need an autopilot since there's little wind to steer the boat-by. But then you're running the motor so power-demand from the autopilot is not a problem. Autopilot is also better in tight coastal waters or on rivers and coastal inlets, especially if tied to the chart-plotter and a way-point since it will compensate if the boat is shoved off-course by the wind or currents. A danger of self-steering in coastal waters is if the wind-shifts radically it will steer you right onto the beach or out-to-sea blindly-following the wind. Personally I like the Hydro-vane since it's totally independent of your rudder and helm. Not-only can it act as an emergency-rudder --typically provision for an emergency rudder is required for off-shore rallies and races anyway-- but you can attach a small tiller-pilot unit to it as an backup.
Thank you Nick, I have always wanted a self steer but I have a sugar scoop transom, bimini and plan on putting in a solar tower/dinghy davits. After watching your video and seeing you can offset the wind vane I am going to look into maybe making some kind of swing away bracket to hold a wind vane. It might not look to pretty but if it works that would be the important part. I have two complete auto pilots and an extra computer ... can't be too careful as a single sailor. I really enjoy watching your tech Tuesday videos as much as your cooking and regular vids.
HI Nick, Excellent as usual!! Anyway another point for the Hydrovane and Windpilot Pacific plus ( which I have used offshore) is the fact that you lock down your wheel (maybe with a slight adjustment) and let the vane rudder steer. This means no wear and tear on your quadrant or cables.. As you say I would not go offshore without one..Hand steering is not fun especially alone. As for heaving too as someone suggested. Fine if the current and wind is with you. If you are against it you can lose significant distance due to drift.. Hope you make it to Denmark... I will spring for a beer or 3!!
Presumably the auto pilot works when motor sailing, or just motoring, so that is a difference/advantage. Also what range of wind strength can you use the self steer, I could imagine that a reasonable strength is required to move the rudder. Thanks for putting out the vids, you have a particularly organised and clear way of communicating.
Great stuff as always Nick. I love there segments. Maybe in the future you can do one that shows the process of actually getting the set self steer tuned to the course you want. I, for one, would be very interested in a short course on how to use and maintain a self steer. Are there certain maintenance tasks that have to be done to keep it working well? How do you choose the right one for your boat? Are there different sizes or is it one size fits all? Would all be interesting for me at least if you wanted to do it. Thanks for the great entertainment and knowledge you share. I always look forward to your next video. Take care.
I've always wondered why it had to be one way of the other. Wouldn't it be better if both systems were available? I've found on strong winds the wind vane is the better way to go.
You can combine a small tiller autopilot to the Hydrovanes tiller. Disengage the floppy paddle and let the little autopilot steer the boat. Useful when motoring. Doesent use so much amp and no noise.
Great presentation. Power consumption is the principle difference to be sure. But with a generator, charging batteries is just part of making water and making hot water. Linear drives need maintenance, many are ignored to the point of failure. I also carry spares; linear drive, rudder position sensor.
A good video, we don’t have a self steer because we have an open transom and our boat is 60ft. We do have two completely separate auto pilots to allow for failure and a whole bunch of solar and two wind turbines to allow to power consumption. What we like is that our auto helm can be changed from our iPad so in theory you could run the boat from inside the cabin or your bed, especially with a Flir camera. We have never done this but in theory it is do able.
I have a Sea Feather windvane on my Rival 32 and I love it. I have a tiller pilot as back up or just for use close to land as I sail solo. Great video guys. Andy UK
Outstanding. We are evaluating both gear and crew competencies for an extended sail next summer. Much appreciate this. You regularly offer such wonderful insights based on your experience short handing over distance. Fair winds.
Thanks for the informative video. We had a Raymarine st 60 system with hydraulic steering and that was noisy af. It did do steer by wind angle. The newer Raymarine systems with the gyroscope s can usually make the boat go faster than anyone hand steering. Very few wind vane steering systems act as a second rudder, most connect to the existing steering.
I know time has moved on from this video and I'm curious how HydroVane would work out on the new cat but I saw something that takes things using HydroVane a bit further, courtesy of Don McIntyre from the GGR. Not true that you must balance the sails perfectly with HydroVane, although it's clearly the best way. But sometimes you can't, if say a sail is damaged or because one sail is just too big compared with the other - or even if you can sail faster than HydroVane is mostly used. The trick is to also balance the boat with the rudder and just live with the drag it creates rather than having to hand steer where centring the rudder leaves the system with more imbalance than the HydroVane rudder can cope with. Sort of like the "general" case where entering the rudder with fully balanced sails is the "specific" case. You trim the sails as best you can, dial out whatever small trim error that remains using the rudder - and then lock the rudder in place. The HydroVane then provides the running control that you need after that. Also possible that this way dials out any affect the offset installation you have, as do I. Not criticising your video, it's good common sense from start to finish, just HydroVane can be a bit more flexible again
As always simple and informative, my question is about weather conditions, at what point do you say neither of these systems is gong to be in control of my boat and you HAVE to hand steer. Lastly, I have always assumed that any autopilot should be treated like the cruise control of your family car, let it have some control but never leave it in totally in control of your lives - is that a fair assumption.
Helpful. For a bigger boat would it not be possible to locate a vane in another location, like atop the mast and use some sort of rheostat at the vane and actuators to the main steering do the same thing? Or is that how the autopilot actually works? Clearly issues with electronics and corrosion with this method.
yes this is a very helpful video, I bought one because you have such high regard for hydro vain. I know it's just your opinion but I believe very strongly on your thoughts about the working of the boat and sailing that I can trust. thanks
Thanks for the video, very informative. I’ve been thinking about installing a self steer for some time but can’t resolve certain questions particular to my boat. 1. I’ve got a tall bimini with solar panels mounted on top. 2. Like you I need an off-center installation because of an existing swim ladder. 3. My dinghy attaches to a davit on the the stern. Hauled to the top of the davit, the dinghy would be at the same height as the vane wing. That’s got to be a problem. I’m thinking get rid of davit and store dinghy on deck. The hydro vane should solve off center issue. But what about the height of the bimini? Is there a measure of how tall the bimini can be? Probably should just ask the Hydro Vane folks. But again very well presented.
good analysis...thanks....in the spirit of redundancy... you might consider how to self steer with the main sheet being your wind vane... ( a la "jester" )
thanks...(reply), got it ! I've heard of so many people where their electronics fail and they don't seem to know about a "jury" rig system they can make themselves as an alternative. I love your redundancy attitude and feel more people should be prepared...by not forgetting basics...as in navigation as well...from DR to cylestial !...have fun, travel on, love your channel !
Hello, excellent comments, am looking into purchasing a 48 ft monohull, I will check further to find if adequate to have it on such a sized sailboat. Br/
Thanks Nick , very informative. I'm sure many people considering a self steering system. Enjoy the crquie of a actual user. More than the sale pitch, you get from the dealers. Keep up the good work, Say hi to tyresa for me. Fair winds.
Nick, another exceptional review my Friend! I am addicted to your channel because of all the great content but also enjoy the humor as well! Thanks to you and Therysa for all the superb videos! Hopefully you two will be at the Annapolis Boat Show. I hear the Sailing Doodles (Bobby White & Laura) might be there also. Looking forward to seeing you there if you can make it.
There is another alternative “Sheet to Tiller Steering” there is usually enough gear on a well-found boat to rig something up when everything else has gone haywire. With a bit of experimenting most boats can be made to self-steer on all points of sailing using some line and blocks and some sort of elastic.
Yes the first boat I used Sheet to Tiller on was a Long Keel gaff cutter that was inherently stable so it was easy to get it to steer without really understanding why. The one and only time I used it on a boat with a Fin Keel and Spade rudder it took me a while to get it right. It wasn’t until I realised that a nearly balanced rudder needed very little input compared to the unbalance rudders of previous boats I’d tried it on. From what I can remember of the set up I used a fools purchase from the jib sheet. In that case it was the sensitivity of the rudder rather than the hull form that made it difficult to get a balance and prevent yawing.
Great video Nick. I’m not sure what happened to the caterpillar that was living on your lip? But I’m pretty sure Pe’pe (or whatever you named him) will be widely mourned. That “dodgy mustache” I felt was finally a real turning point for your channel. I hope this video was prerecorded and Pe’pe not only is still alive but will become a permanent crew member.
I was on a cat one time where the AP head unit was mounted on a portion of the conn that was angled to the boat centerline. So all routes using the autopilot were basically arcs. No big deal on short sails, but a crossing with that thing would have been stupid. I went and read the manual on the HV after watching your older vid where you covered it...will be getting one when I get my boat.
Are there any hybrid systems which use the rudder of the windvane to drive the steering, but get the directional input from a small servo motor instead of the windvane? That should reduce the power consumption of the autosteering significantly as the power to move the tiller is not coming out of the battery but driven by the windvanes rudder. Also you can program a course and do all the other wonderful things that I imagine a electrical autopilot would do... P.S. please share more technical stuff...
Check out Sailing Uma. They have a wind vane that steers the boat’s rudder through a pulley system. I can’t recall the manufacturer. Works almost like the Hydrovane except no additional rudder. That also means no backup rudder if you loose your main rudder. Uma does an excellent job showing the install and explaining the pros and cons of this system over other wind vanes.
when You do use the autopilot do you lift the hydrovane rudder out of the water, does it stay in but is left idle or does it stay in the water and is it blocked.
I agree with your assessment. This is how I see the Piloting situation as well as any situation. PACE= Primary, Alternate, Contingency, and Emergency. For Steering it is as follows, I have a catamaran. P= 1st Autopilot/ Hydraulic Steering A= 2nd AutoPilot/ Hydraulic Steering C= Hand Steering E= Hand Steering and hand held GPS. I realize a Cat vs a Mono is different and I really wish we had a Wind Vane for Cats. Wind Vanes are amazing as they are simple mechanical systems that are easy to understand and repair at sea. Love your videos please keep it up and I will see you on the water or on TH-cam. By the way I wish you would curse more, makes it realistic.
Excellent comparison, Nick. A couple of points that I would add in regards to vane steering. The first is that not only are they far, far more reliable than autopilots, but should something break, you can actually fix it, usually without having to order parts from half a world away. The other is that in general, vanes do poorly in light winds. You can rig a tiller pilot to replace the actual wind vane, but on some units like our Monitor (uses lines to the wheel instead of an auxiliary rudder) , unless the boat speed is at least 2 3/4 kts, the paddle in the water just doesn't have enough force to turn the wheel. One last comment on rigging a tiller pilot to the vane steering is that it is a cheap backup should your electronic autopilot fail. On our last boat, we made it all the way down to Panama using that setup.
In conclusion, people should understand that vane steering and electronic autopilots don't compete with each other, they complement each other. In areas where one is weak the other is strong and vice versa.
Very good points my friend. Good to hear from long term cruisers with the sea miles to back up their experiences
As always, it's nice to have both. I did a good few years with just a vane gear....but eventually got an autopilot. Thing with an autopilot, it uses a LOT of electricity.....so best when you are under power....which of course is when the vane gear will not work. Ocean sailing is not always 'sailing'. In 1981, the year of the first El Nino....I left Cabo San Lucas for the Marquesas...a classic Trade Wind route. The wind quit about 3degrees North and we motored the rest of the way. (55' Herreshoff schooner, with a 1800 mile range under power.) It was VERY nice to have the autopilot then.
We'll ocean sailing is MOSTLY sailing unless you are carrying a heck of a lot of extra fuel! Not many sailboats can do anything close to 1800 miles under power!
Electronic autohelm can also steer to an apparent wind angle
Brilliant description!
The autopilot won't keep the sails in trim, the wind vane won't keep you on course when the wind (or tide) changes and just lashing the wheel won't do either, but will allow you to rest while the boat goes more or less in the right direction. So probably best is a wind vane with a course plotter that gives an audible warning when you go off course, so you can reset the wind vane and trim the sails.
The best autopilots will steer to a wind angle as well as a self steer. In addition, with properly trimmed sails on a boat that balances well, the autopilot should have to work very little, certainly less than 5 amps per hour. They do break to often, on that I do agree. We have replaced two of them in 'exotic' places over a 8 year period. Fitting a self steer to our transom is a complex and expensive proposition so that does have to be a consideration when considering what to do. Good info that you have provided.
Great video. Many thanks. I would say most cruisers need both.
Thanks for the information. Really enjoy the tec. videos. They provide a real persons experience rather than the information gleaned from reading promotional sources that are just trying to sell you something. Thanks again!
Cheers mate
sounds silly but this is the first time someone explained it the way I was looking for.
wind vane contra autopilot. A combination of wind rudder and autopilot is by far the best and most economical both in terms of price and durability. I used the smallest Autohelm 800 which in connection with wind plate fully controlled the course of the boat. My wind rudder is an Aries that works in the same way as almost all other wind rudders
Same
Nick, you are spot on with simple and easy to understand explanations. Less is more. Thanks Mate! Cheers from Flowood, Mississippi USA!
Two points: with self steering, if the wind shifts 90 degrees, you will have an unexpected course change. Second, in 1984 sailing a Bowman 47 yawl across the pond, bottom half of Hydrovave rudder sheared off. The two of us hand steered for 15 days. Not sure of age of that unit, old GFR tech for certain but point is anything can break. Well spoken. Thank you.
Thankyou for this clear and concise explaination of the difference between electonic and mechanical auto steering.
I recently purchased a 38' steel hulled sloop with these two features and was uncertain as to their reliabilty and function.
I am learning as I go and your instructional videos are fantastic for a novice such as me.
Keep them coming, they are great.
Cheers mate, glad to be of help
@@sailingrubyrose Wow, that was a quick response.
Thankyou for the reply.
My boat is moored in Lake Macquarie (NSW Australia) about a ten minute drive from my home.
She is a fixer upper and I am enjoying the job of getting her ship shape.
As I work my way through the boat am becoming more and more familiar with her idiosyncracies which I imagine are inherent in each and every vessel.
I trust that you are both well and enjoying yourselves out there wherever you are at the moment, where is that by the way?
Regards from
Gary
Nick, well done! Best presentation I have see explaining the benefits and limits of each system. I have two auto pilots and a Monitor wind vain and use them as you brilliantly described.
Excellent summary! Thanks so much and safe travels!! 😎🧜♂️🧜♀️
You guys are the best, I’m learning so much from you both. Hopefully you are both still around by the time I get my ass around the world. Cheers
Very informative. Thanks!
Thanks for posting. An emergency rudder, yes. Offshore losing 100% of steering makes McGyver and the Three Stooges smile. Nicely shot video.
Great presentation. Thanks
Excellent review by Nick. I have learnt that wind vane steering is a bit iffy upwind which is a surprise as I had thought it was the other way round. However it might mean I'll spend a bit longer waiting for a weather window and probably enjoy passages a bit more.
Thanks for demystifying the selfsteer!
The clearest explanation I've seen. Thanks. For a 32ft monohull what brands of autopilot & hydrovane should I look at and their approx costs?
Excellent, really helpful. Thank you. I now get why self steer devices exist - other than as a “no power needed” option. Lots to think about...
Another terrific techie Tuesday episode 😊
Thanks mate for all the info, very clarifying.
excellent discussion of the differences.
Cheers mate
Outstanding commentary on pros and cons of both.
Having both is a good idea since while sailing self-steering is great, if you're motoring to make a passage while becalmed or heading for shelter you need an autopilot since there's little wind to steer the boat-by. But then you're running the motor so power-demand from the autopilot is not a problem.
Autopilot is also better in tight coastal waters or on rivers and coastal inlets, especially if tied to the chart-plotter and a way-point since it will compensate if the boat is shoved off-course by the wind or currents. A danger of self-steering in coastal waters is if the wind-shifts radically it will steer you right onto the beach or out-to-sea blindly-following the wind.
Personally I like the Hydro-vane since it's totally independent of your rudder and helm. Not-only can it act as an emergency-rudder --typically provision for an emergency rudder is required for off-shore rallies and races anyway-- but you can attach a small tiller-pilot unit to it as an backup.
Absolutely clear, concise and understandable. (Spoken quickly) As expected we only get the best from Ruby Rose and her crew. Thank you!
Thank you Nick, I have always wanted a self steer but I have a sugar scoop transom, bimini and plan on putting in a solar tower/dinghy davits. After watching your video and seeing you can offset the wind vane I am going to look into maybe making some kind of swing away bracket to hold a wind vane. It might not look to pretty but if it works that would be the important part. I have two complete auto pilots and an extra computer ... can't be too careful as a single sailor. I really enjoy watching your tech Tuesday videos as much as your cooking and regular vids.
This Boreal 44 does have fold away mount steering vane: www.sailfeed.com/2017/02/used-boreal-44-for-sale-rc-louise-is-up-for-grabs-2/
Concise, perfect explanation of both… Cheers!
very differential explanation of pro and cons about Auto Pilots! Thank You!
HI Nick,
Excellent as usual!! Anyway another point for the Hydrovane and Windpilot Pacific plus ( which I have used offshore) is the fact that you lock down your wheel (maybe with a slight adjustment) and let the vane rudder steer. This means no wear and tear on your quadrant or cables.. As you say I would not go offshore without one..Hand steering is not fun especially alone. As for heaving too as someone suggested. Fine if the current and wind is with you. If you are against it you can lose significant distance due to drift.. Hope you make it to Denmark... I will spring for a beer or 3!!
Presumably the auto pilot works when motor sailing, or just motoring, so that is a difference/advantage. Also what range of wind strength can you use the self steer, I could imagine that a reasonable strength is required to move the rudder. Thanks for putting out the vids, you have a particularly organised and clear way of communicating.
I've noticed many cruisers have named their wind wane and consider them an invaluable crew member. Another informative video. Fair winds!
Great stuff as always Nick. I love there segments. Maybe in the future you can do one that shows the process of actually getting the set self steer tuned to the course you want. I, for one, would be very interested in a short course on how to use and maintain a self steer. Are there certain maintenance tasks that have to be done to keep it working well? How do you choose the right one for your boat? Are there different sizes or is it one size fits all? Would all be interesting for me at least if you wanted to do it. Thanks for the great entertainment and knowledge you share. I always look forward to your next video. Take care.
I've always wondered why it had to be one way of the other. Wouldn't it be better if both systems were available? I've found on strong winds the wind vane is the better way to go.
Great explanation into your reasoning for having both. Thanks, Nick!
brilliant....best explanation i have seen versus the two , cheers
You can combine a small tiller autopilot to the Hydrovanes tiller. Disengage the floppy paddle and let the little autopilot steer the boat. Useful when motoring. Doesent use so much amp and no noise.
I’ve just seen a video about a Raymarine autopilot being used as windvane.
Concise and informative.
Great presentation. Power consumption is the principle difference to be sure. But with a generator, charging batteries is just part of making water and making hot water. Linear drives need maintenance, many are ignored to the point of failure. I also carry spares; linear drive, rudder position sensor.
A good video, we don’t have a self steer because we have an open transom and our boat is 60ft. We do have two completely separate auto pilots to allow for failure and a whole bunch of solar and two wind turbines to allow to power consumption. What we like is that our auto helm can be changed from our iPad so in theory you could run the boat from inside the cabin or your bed, especially with a Flir camera. We have never done this but in theory it is do able.
Excellent overview of self steer and autopilot. Very useful, particularly for novices.
You two are the best.
Very helpful thanks!
Excellent explanation. What about under motor? It's safe to assume the self steer doesn't work under motor, but what about Autopilot?
Good yet simple analysis. Thanks.
Very informative, thank you so much
It's good to to learn
I have a Sea Feather windvane on my Rival 32 and I love it. I have a tiller pilot as back up or just for use close to land as I sail solo. Great video guys. Andy UK
Outstanding. We are evaluating both gear and crew competencies for an extended sail next summer. Much appreciate this. You regularly offer such wonderful insights based on your experience short handing over distance. Fair winds.
Real world experience and practical advice - nicely done!
Thanks for sharing and being so thorough. I wondered why I never saw self-steer on larger boats. 😊⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵😊👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
You must still be wondering because he didn't explain, except to say they were less effective.
That's all the explanation needed unless you have something to add. Above 50' boats, they are not effective. The boat is too big.
Thanks for the informative video. We had a Raymarine st 60 system with hydraulic steering and that was noisy af. It did do steer by wind angle. The newer Raymarine systems with the gyroscope s can usually make the boat go faster than anyone hand steering. Very few wind vane steering systems act as a second rudder, most connect to the existing steering.
I appreciate you sharing your experience and knowledge. Well done.
Well done Nick easy to understand and insightful!!
Great video, helped a lot. Thanks.
I know time has moved on from this video and I'm curious how HydroVane would work out on the new cat but I saw something that takes things using HydroVane a bit further, courtesy of Don McIntyre from the GGR.
Not true that you must balance the sails perfectly with HydroVane, although it's clearly the best way. But sometimes you can't, if say a sail is damaged or because one sail is just too big compared with the other - or even if you can sail faster than HydroVane is mostly used.
The trick is to also balance the boat with the rudder and just live with the drag it creates rather than having to hand steer where centring the rudder leaves the system with more imbalance than the HydroVane rudder can cope with. Sort of like the "general" case where entering the rudder with fully balanced sails is the "specific" case. You trim the sails as best you can, dial out whatever small trim error that remains using the rudder - and then lock the rudder in place. The HydroVane then provides the running control that you need after that. Also possible that this way dials out any affect the offset installation you have, as do I.
Not criticising your video, it's good common sense from start to finish, just HydroVane can be a bit more flexible again
As always simple and informative, my question is about weather conditions, at what point do you say neither of these systems is gong to be in control of my boat and you HAVE to hand steer. Lastly, I have always assumed that any autopilot should be treated like the cruise control of your family car, let it have some control but never leave it in totally in control of your lives - is that a fair assumption.
clarified several things for us THANK YOU !!
Helpful. For a bigger boat would it not be possible to locate a vane in another location, like atop the mast and use some sort of rheostat at the vane and actuators to the main steering do the same thing? Or is that how the autopilot actually works? Clearly issues with electronics and corrosion with this method.
yes this is a very helpful video, I bought one because you have such high regard for hydro vain. I know it's just your opinion but I believe very strongly on your thoughts about the working of the boat and sailing that I can trust. thanks
Great information once again. Thanks for putting together this little video.
Great explanation. What about using self steer in river between islands say a mile wide?
Really enjoying the Tech Tuesdays Nick, presume only the autopilot will work when there is no wind!
Great explanation!
Thank you kind sir
Thanks for the video, very informative. I’ve been thinking about installing a self steer for some time but can’t resolve certain questions particular to my boat. 1. I’ve got a tall bimini with solar panels mounted on top. 2. Like you I need an off-center installation because of an existing swim ladder. 3. My dinghy attaches to a davit on the the stern. Hauled to the top of the davit, the dinghy would be at the same height as the vane wing. That’s got to be a problem. I’m thinking get rid of davit and store dinghy on deck. The hydro vane should solve off center issue. But what about the height of the bimini? Is there a measure of how tall the bimini can be? Probably should just ask the Hydro Vane folks. But again very well presented.
Thanks for the update. Will consider all options.
good analysis...thanks....in the spirit of redundancy... you might consider how to self steer with the main sheet being your wind vane... ( a la "jester" )
see link..: th-cam.com/video/pnkDsDWl8zQ/w-d-xo.html
thanks...(reply), got it ! I've heard of so many people where their electronics fail and they don't seem to know about a "jury" rig system they can make themselves as an alternative. I love your redundancy attitude and feel more people should be prepared...by not forgetting basics...as in navigation as well...from DR to cylestial !...have fun, travel on, love your channel !
That was a great explanation! Loving the technical Tuesday videos
Not sure if anyone asked this but why not have a hydrovane if you are coastal cruising instead of an auto-pilot?
Hello Nik, great video and a good explanation of both units. Now I have a strong idea of how they work . Keep the tech. Tuesday coming.
I like it. I’m ready to start sailing.
Awesome ! I'm a Power Boater but I like learning stuff like this about other types of boats and gear
love tec tuesday! thanks.
Hello, excellent comments, am looking into purchasing a 48 ft monohull, I will check further to find if adequate to have it on such a sized sailboat. Br/
yes she does what respond to big weather ?
Thanks Nick , very informative. I'm sure many people considering a self steering system. Enjoy the crquie of a actual user. More than the sale pitch, you get from the dealers. Keep up the good work, Say hi to tyresa for me. Fair winds.
Great vid. Thnx
Great video Nick! Very informative; always look forward to the next one!
Great overview
Informative vlog, wouldn't never figured the bimini would effect the windvane and direction you sail
Great explanation. Loved it. Thumb up!
Glad it helped mate
Very well explained, Nick. Thanks!
Great explanation. I agree. My new boat has wind vane on each hull and I'll have a CPT autopilot as well. Good points all.
Loved the info thanks
Great information Nick, thank you!
Nick, another exceptional review my Friend! I am addicted to your channel because of all the great content but also enjoy the humor as well! Thanks to you and Therysa for all the superb videos! Hopefully you two will be at the Annapolis Boat Show. I hear the Sailing Doodles (Bobby White & Laura) might be there also. Looking forward to seeing you there if you can make it.
There is another alternative “Sheet to Tiller Steering” there is usually enough gear on a well-found boat to rig something up when everything else has gone haywire.
With a bit of experimenting most boats can be made to self-steer on all points of sailing using some line and blocks and some sort of elastic.
Yes the first boat I used Sheet to Tiller on was a Long Keel gaff cutter that was inherently stable so it was easy to get it to steer without really understanding why.
The one and only time I used it on a boat with a Fin Keel and Spade rudder it took me a while to get it right.
It wasn’t until I realised that a nearly balanced rudder needed very little input compared to the unbalance rudders of previous boats I’d tried it on. From what I can remember of the set up I used a fools purchase from the jib sheet.
In that case it was the sensitivity of the rudder rather than the hull form that made it difficult to get a balance and prevent yawing.
Great info, Nick. Perfect explanation of the pros & cons for a rookie sailor (me) to understand. Thank you. Shane, S/V Genesis-Port Canaveral, FL.
clever bugger learnt alot as per usual, nice to see you have got UK weather over there
Great video Nick. I’m not sure what happened to the caterpillar that was living on your lip? But I’m pretty sure Pe’pe (or whatever you named him) will be widely mourned. That “dodgy mustache” I felt was finally a real turning point for your channel. I hope this video was prerecorded and Pe’pe not only is still alive but will become a permanent crew member.
Hilarious!
Great tutorial - thanks! Do you have any thoughts on self-steer for RR2?
Great video, I was interested in the differences and advantages. Thanks.
I was on a cat one time where the AP head unit was mounted on a portion of the conn that was angled to the boat centerline. So all routes using the autopilot were basically arcs. No big deal on short sails, but a crossing with that thing would have been stupid. I went and read the manual on the HV after watching your older vid where you covered it...will be getting one when I get my boat.
Your gear review vids were what got me hooked on your channel.
GREAT editing, new music. Polishing the Owl really helps!
Very well explained! Thank you, subbed.
Well done, as always!
👍👍⛵🌹⛵👍👍
I'm thinking of getting one but a professional to fit it
Are there any hybrid systems which use the rudder of the windvane to drive the steering, but get the directional input from a small servo motor instead of the windvane? That should reduce the power consumption of the autosteering significantly as the power to move the tiller is not coming out of the battery but driven by the windvanes rudder. Also you can program a course and do all the other wonderful things that I imagine a electrical autopilot would do...
P.S. please share more technical stuff...
Check out Sailing Uma. They have a wind vane that steers the boat’s rudder through a pulley system. I can’t recall the manufacturer. Works almost like the Hydrovane except no additional rudder. That also means no backup rudder if you loose your main rudder. Uma does an excellent job showing the install and explaining the pros and cons of this system over other wind vanes.
when You do use the autopilot do you lift the hydrovane rudder out of the water, does it stay in but is left idle or does it stay in the water and is it blocked.