I've got a pretty long question, but it's basically "How would the German post-WW1 battlefleet look like after German victory in WW1?" I had the idea to write an alternate timeline of Europe which diverges with Germany not invading Belgium in 1914, and this snowballs into events like Italy joining the Central Powers and both British and American entry into WW1 being considerably delayed, and culminates in Germany defeating both Russia and France by 1916-17. Now, first of all, Germany building ships like the L20ea is in my opinion completely unrealistic. I think Germany would be a treaty member of the Washington Naval Treaty with the same 5 to 3 ratio as Japan. (There are reasons for this, although not really relevant to this question. Basically, Germany would have tons of work to do for its army after victory in WW1, with only a partial demobilisation being realistically possible. Germany would need to keep troops in Poland, Finland, Ukraine and the Baltics due to the Russian civil war, would likely occupy parts of Belgium and France for several years, would need to keep order in directly annexed territories like the Polish border strip, Southern Belgium and Luxembourg, and would probably also need to have troops available in the likely case of Austro-Hungarian collapse, in which case Germany would want to annex Austria and the Sudetenland. So shipyard workers would be at premium, especially since Germany would also need to build a modern cruiser force to police its new overseas territories, such as the Mittelafrika supercolony) So I think Germany would simply complete the capital ships already under construction, and retain its most modern existing units. The entire Jutland Fleet with the exception of the Iron Dog would go to the breakers (perhaps they'd gift a König to Finland or the Baltic Duchy, but if I remember correctly, the treaty forbade this, and these new nations would be under German protection anyways - the Baltic would be a German lake). Assuming that only Lützow had been lost in WW1, by the mid-1920ies, the German battlefleet might look like this: • Bayern, Baden, Sachsen and Württemberg • Derfflinger and Hindenburg • 2 Mackensen-class battlecruisers (probably the 1st and 2nd ships, that would be Mackensen and Graf Spee) • 2 CVs built from Mackensen hulls (probably the 3rd and 4th ships, that would be Prinz Eitel Friedrich and Fürst Bismarck) • 2 Ersatz-Yorck-class battlecruisers - Those would be the German equivalent of the Nelson and Nagato classes since they are a solid design and the other treaty nations wouldn't tolerate the 420mm gun ships anyways. Designing and building a completely new ship with a completely new 406mm gun while half of your workforce is currently on a well-deserved holiday all over Europe likely won't work out so well. At 33.500 tons, they also fit nicely into the treaty - I assume the Germans would do a bit of redesign to use up the remaining tonnage, perhaps completing the ships with 150mm turret secondaries and 88mm AA guns, just like the OTL 1928 battlecruiser proposal. Those ships might be named Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, and one of them might become the new fleet flagship, succeeding the Baden in that role*. So 4 battleships, 6 battlecruisers and 2 CVs in total. Another thing to mention is that all German battlecruisers, beginning with the Iron Dogs, had a 12inch main belt and a 9inch upper belt. Especially the 350mm and 380mm gunned ships are thus very close to the fast battleship type - if given a somewhat reasonable armor deck with heavy scarps connected to the lower edge of the 12inch belt, they should have pretty decent staying power, even against the 15inch Greenboy shells. Alternatively, they could have removed the generously applied 9inch armor together with the 150mm casemate guns and fitted a thick armor deck on the top edge of the 12inch belt together with new turret secondaries. *Other possibilities for the 2 ships representing the "German Nelson/Nagato" could be one of the L1 to L3 designs, which were basically 220 meter long Bayerns with better deck armor (L1), another 380mm turret (L2) or a 26 knot speed (L3). But honestly, the Ersatz-Yorck-class just looks better to me, and most importantly, was further advanced in the production chain and thus more efficient to procure. The only real advantage of these ships over the Ersatz-Yorck-class would be the 14inch belt, but again, the Ersatz-Yorck-class would likely receive an upgrade anyways, possibly somewhat merging the designs - they are pretty close already. Yet another remote possibility would be a 420mm gunned ship (although I highly doubt the other nations would accept such a large gun), but the Germans never had a design proposal for such a ship on 35.000 tons in the first place. In fact, they designed a ship on 40.000 tons, and this had only 2 twin 420mm turrets, with armor and speed being unknown, though likely a 12inch belt (possibly 14inch, but I really don't know) and a 28 knot top speed. Again, the Ersatz-Yorck-class simply looks far more usable and both faster and cheaper to build. 420mm guns are simply not feasible on a 35.000 ton ship in my opinion, unless you sacrifice speed to a ridiculous degree, which I think highly unlikely, given that the Germans in our timeline devoted so much work to developing actual fast battleships towards the end of WW1. I would absolutely love to hear your opinion on this complex issue. Do you agree with the ships I chose for completion and retention? Any ideas or corrections would be more than welcome.
What was the worst friendly fire incident within the same navy in history? (Mogami’s infamous torpedo salvo and Operation Wilkinger do not count, as these were between different branches of the military and not within the navy by itself).
Are there 100s (or thousands?) of unexploded torpedoes just laying around on the oceans floor? And do fishing trawlers ever pull them up, or set them off!
Seeing a guide on a WW2 sub made me wonder; are you planning on coming to the Midwest/Great Lake states in the US on one of your trips over? The Gato class USS Silversides is here in West Michigan on Lake Michigan, Muskegon to be exact, and is a great visit. I know of some other museum ships along the Great Lakes as well. Thinking of ships on your upcoming visits, we obviously don't have anything gigantic like the USS Massachusetts or the USS Midway, but the ships we do have are interesting nonetheless!
I always forget how bad the Mk 14 really is until Drach gives another detailed accounting of how it failed to sink a ship. Six torpedoes expended, and the target still managed to limp home for repairs. It's a wonder more sub captains didn't just surface and ram the enemy out of sheer frustration.
@@em1osmurf Sorry, dude. Indie Maru's super secret squirrel mission had already ended. She had been released for reassignment as 3rd fleet flafship, and was torpedoed on her way to report in. What happened to Indie Maru after being torpedoed was pants on head stupidity resulting in part from Navy SOPs
@@michaelbourgeault9409 Tibbets flew Enola Gay over Hiroshima. Charles Sweeney flew Bockscar over Nagasaki (Bock had been assigned to another plane). USS Indianapolis carried components for Little Boy, the bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
Richard M. Rowell's war diary from her sinking of Seawolf: At 1225 ASP plane reported sub on surface about seven miles away. Plane attacked and dropped dye marker - results of attack were negative and submarine submerged on a northwesterly course. Proceeded at best speed to area. At 1311 made sound contact on submarine. At 1315 made hedgehog attack - sound gear reported one explosion but this was not noticed on the bridge. At 1327 made second hedgehog attack - three to five definite explosions were heard or felt on the bridge - debris was blown to the surface and sank at once indicating it was metal or some heavy materiel - no oil slick was noticed for total time this vessel remained in the area. A large bubble of air came to the surface shortly after the debris. One piece of debris, looking like the end of a periscope, was seen to come up vertical out of the water about two feet, tilt over to an angle of about 70 degrees, and then sink. Commanding Officer of SHELTON concurs in the opinion that it appeared to be a periscope. The submarine attempted to jam sound gear by sending a continuous dash on his gear from about 300 yards on in, and was highly evasive, fish-tailing all the time. At 1340 made third hedgehog attack with negative results. Area was now full of wakes and explosion boils and it is doubtful that any of the remaining attacks were made on the submarine itself although he was close. At 1350 made fourth hedgehog attack with negative results. At 1355 fired thirteen charge depth charge pattern set at very deep where sub was thought to be. About two minutes after explosions of the charges were heard, a distinct underwater explosion was heard, or possibly felt, on the bridge, coming from the general direction of the submarine. At 1403 made fifth hedgehog attack with negative results. Sound conditions were bad due to wakes and boils. During all early attacks submarine was estimated to be making three knots and was making highly evasive course changes during all attacks. It is thought possible that the embarrassing attacks made at 0839 and 0842 may have shaken him up causing the sub to surface when planes and surface craft were nearby and that his speed was reduced somewhat. This would account for his low speed during attacks.
That ship was just waiting for a new host body. She waited infecting the MK 14's waiting for her new host. that being the currently not even remotely in actual service Russian aircraft carrier.
@@Boneworm852 Thank you. An ancient malignant creature. It's body slain by a great noble Russian warrior. While it's body was dead. the soul of this ancient evil continued on. Haunting the Russian lands looking for a way to resurrect it's body. Then eventually coming across a ship under construction. Here was the body it would use. Waiting to regain it's power under the ship's innocent guise. when it departed with the fleet. It's malignant soul seeped terror, pain, and misery on those around it. Before it came across a ship with the spirit of a noble Samurai. Recognizing this ancient evil. It struck down it down. Casting it into the depths to never reappear. It was dead but the soul remained. Again, waiting for the time it could live again. Infecting the MK 14 torpedo's. Then when a new host body came about. It returned taking it over. To spread it's pain, misery, and evil against the Russian people.
Great video of a tragic war-time loss. On a lighter note, I think you should do the history of USS Sea Tiger for April First (wink-wink, nudge-nudge, know-what-I-mean, know-what-I-mean). While she was portrayed by a trio of Balao-class boats in the film, she would have been a Sargo-class submarine. As a boy, my ex-Navy dad too me to the place where the "Phillippines" scenes were filmed at Naval Station Key West where he taught sonar post-war.
My Great Grandfather served aboard Saury SS-189 during the war as a machinist mate, glad to see more of the Sargo Class being covered here on the channel, would hope to see a guide to the rest of the Sargo's
While serving on the Seawolf (SSN-21), a new sonarman checked onboard. His name was Rowell. I knew the history of the first Seawolf and shared it with some shipmates.
I love how you are featuring submarines, May I suggest on your next trip to the U.S. you visit Muskegon Michigan which has the USS Silversides, SS 236, she is one of the top producing Subs of WW2 and had the first cappendix removed under way. She is still in her ear appearance, with much of her equipment having 1941 build dates. Also the engines run, you might be there when they start them. And yes, I’m quite proud of this boat, my dad served on her during 1944-1945, making three war patrols as a gunners mate and sonar operator
It would be interesting to try and go back and figure out what these submarines' kill counts would have looked like, if the torpedoes had worked early in the war.
Thats entire Chaos Butterfly Effect here. Actually losing some warships, troop transports and supply ships early on would alter entire japanese war strategy. Most of existing battles would never happened in the first place.
I've read a few threads on the Alternate History Forum about it. If torpedoes worked before the war. The war could have ended maybe 6-8 months earlier.
@@randomnickify Not remotely the butterfly affect. The butterfly affect is a tiny change having a big affect later on. A LOT of ships got hit with non-exploding torpedoes. It would have been a massive difference.
@@randomnickify The butterfly affect isn't change anything. It's very specifically a VERY tiny change. Getting that piece of trash torpedo to work, was hardly a VERY tiny change. You're trying to compare the affect a butterfly's wings have in relation to the entire atmosphere, to a torpedo to ships. The butterfly affect would be more like if a single screw was all that was needed to fix them.
Might you dig up some info on the USS Wakefield, A liberty ship my father served on that apparently developed a 100+ft crack along her side just above the waterline during an Atlantic transit.
Once a frustrated captain was using a hammer smashing the trigger of these very modern torpedoes in the middle of the harbor, after returning from mission. Nothing happened. 😉 Not sure where I read it though or if really true.
Edward Beach's excellent book "Submarine" has a chapter devoted to Seawolf. His fiction books "Run Silent, Run Deep" and "Dust on the Sea" also give good insight into the WW2 Pacific US Submarine campaign.
Really I can understand in a 5-minute guide how little can actually be put in. Put the Seawolf herself in the list of greatest submarines in the United States has ever had. The amount of War patrols that this ship did was insane. Two of her captains ended up in command positions. I have said it before but anyone interested in the United States war regarding submarines really needs the book called Silent victory
I recall years back encouraging you to dump the text to speech app on your vid and let us hear your voice. You proved us your capable of a non- monotone delivery. Years later and the world marched on.. to my favorite naval historiographer. I dedicate the drinking of a Black Russian dedicated to the captain and the must have been phenomenally terrorized and long suffering crew of the Kamchatka. Just always remember... the fishing boat you see may just indeed be a torpedo boat from the far side of the world! better safe then sorry!
i could watch the intro to the 5 min episodes for hours. the old ladies are amazing and beautiful...Drachinifel, could you please put together a collage of the clips that you use for intros? it would be comforting to us old folks
@@Tempestzzzz there is often very deep water between islands especially if they're the remains of a guyot or seamount - that's formerly been above the surface as a volcanic feature and is now a low island. The water close in can be extremely deep and its that which makes them great environments for sea life, because the slopes act to push cold water with high nutrients up toward the surface.. It could easily be within a mile of an island or island chain and be up to 1000 ft deep.. But it'd be interesting to find out why it didn't signal or anything because I guarantee they could tell the signatures of the surface craft were friendlies, or why they didn't just do an emergency blow and surface but remain closed up. They're easily recognisable compared to enemy craft.. Having read the log entry in the other comment, I have my suspicions that there's info that was accideliberately not included. If a surface boat can make sonar contact then there are ways for the sub to alert them to their mistake. My take, being a cynic, is the sub communicated clearly who they were, and Captain Idiot decides its a ruse and proceeds to pound the crap out of them... Especially since the sub apparently makes no attempt to get into any firing position, which I'd imagine would be noted in the log, was purely running evasive.. Stinks like 15 year old Lancre Blue to me..
@@d.olivergutierrez8690 The first attack run might've damaged their equipment and hindered their ability to change depth, and the constant follow up attacks would've made any system repairs hectic and unlikely to be completed.
It should be remembered why the torpedoes were so bad. The problem - was that it wasn't just one problem. 1) The Torpedoes ran deeper than set. 2) The contact exploder would break if hitting the target at a 90 degree angle instead of detonating the warhead. If the torpedo hit at an angle - then it ... _might_ go off. 3) Torpedoes with Magnetic Influence exploders were designed to pass under the target and detonate there - doing the most damage. The problem here was the Earths Magnetic Field was inconsistent so that sometimes it would set the torpedo off before it reached the target and sometimes it wouldn't set it off at all. With the Torpedoes depth set for them to run under the ship for the Magnetic Influence Torpedo to do it's work - if the Magnetic Exploder didn't set it of - it was already set deep enough that it was intentionally passing under the target and the contact detonator wouldn't get a chance to work. Because of all these different problems - they were getting inconsistent results and had trouble recognizing what was happening. Also - at one point in time - the Officer Commanding the Submarines in one area - had been the Officer who had supervised the Torpedo Program that developed these Torpedoes - and refused to hear anything bad said against them. The crews of the subs were forbidden to modify the torpedoes but would do it anyway. One common trick was to disable the Magnetic Influence Exploders. There was a mark painted on the screws sealing the innards of the torpedo - but - the crews would repaint the ones they hadn't used when they came back to port. The problem here - was that the Torpedoes were still running deeper than set. This was determined by placing a harbor gate net out - and firing torpedoes through it. The holes made by the torpedoes showed how deep they were really running. Here - the crews would just set the torpedoes to run shallower - to get them to run at the proper depth. The faulty contact exploders were determined by winching torpedoes up with a crane - and then dropping them nose first onto steel or concrete (without of course any explosives). This showed that the contact exploders were breaking. These Torpedoes - because of budgets and lack of suitable targets - were only tested twice - and - one of those two torpedoes ran right under the old submarine that was the target. So the Americans entered WWII with a Torpedo that during testing had a 50% failure rate. The magnetic exploders had been repeatedly tested but without explosives so the torpedoes could be recovered, examined and used again. All these tests had been done at a part of the Earth where the Magnetic Field in the testing area was the same as that where they had been calibrated. The British and the Germans both tried to use Magnetic Exploders as well and neither of them could make them work either. One U Boat Captain fired multiple torpedoes at the _Warspite_ as it was entering the Fjord to Narvik and they all exploded to soon. He then repeated the same thing as the _Warspite_ left with the same results. My understanding - is that this Captain was literally pounding his fist on someone's desk when he got back and adamantly refusing to ever use Magnetic Influence Exploders ever again. Fortunately for the Germans and the British - their contact exploders worked and their torpedoes ran at the depth they were set at ..
For many years there has been an SSN Seawolf on display in Galveston, Texas. Is this a subsequent sub that was given the same name? Just curious. I enjoy your channel.
@@S0RGEx I stand corrected on Tautog. Cavalla may look complete but almost all of her under topside deck piping and equipment was removed during a major "overhaul" due to years of neglect and poor maintenance causing the deck to rot away and become unsafe. (the original deck had plywood and 4 inches of concrete on top of that.) That was replaced in the early 2000's. I have acted as a docent and worked on work parties on her on 3 different occasions over the years. Now at 77 I'm not as agile as I once was.
On behalf of all the granite staters that would agree, we respectfully point out, that whatever that second hand of a state may say, the portsmouth naval yard is in portsmouth New Hampshire.
I realize that the Sargo and Salmon classes are sometimes referred to as the S-class, but my impression was that the pennant numbers for submarines in that period were prefixed by SS, much as battleships were BB and destroyers were DD. Or was using SS a later development?
I ended up sinking a US SSN in a wargame at the Naval War College. To be fair it was a Kobyashi Maru situation. The controller told me if I held my fire he would have declared it hostile and sunk the carrier.
Yeah, but don't you have screeds of data telling you it's a friendly? I've never yet heard of any submarines capable of gimmicking a sonar signature overlay to hide who they are.. No win scenario a good training test to be fair... But the situation you describe..
I have always wondered if all those wooden shampans were really related to the japanese military and were only civilian chinese (or other nationality) traders.
In the movie Master and Commander, the HMS Surprise is severely damaged. Where would a ship of that era store the needed materials for repairs, (the "spare" main mast, rope and sailcloth)?
Depends on how long from a decent port. They carried sailcloth and rope, and some spare spars (not lower masts - but could be jury-rigged). In one of the books Jack Aubrey notes a French captain's cautious sailing, and remarks that, so far from supply, he would swap his bosun for a hundred fathom of six inch line. In another, he beaches a 64 in a remote Antarctic island and repairs a gash in the hull and a damaged rudder - an event taken from actual history.
I'm going to be very pointlessly pedantic and echo various people... Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, where SS-197 Seawolf was built, is in Maine. Portsmouth is in Hampshire (and has been for over 840 years). And in New Hampshire, Iowa, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, Virginia, Michigan, West Yorkshire, Ontario and Dominica.
Drach: Hedgehog versus Squid. Why did we move away from a contact detonator and back to a hydrostatic detonator? From what I've read, Hedgehog worked. Why did we proceed with Squid?
I believe that Squid had a much larger explosive charge than Hedgehog, comparable to a traditional depth charge. So it didn't need a contact hit to be effective. However, unlike a depth charge, it could be fired forward, where the the sub was still in the ASDIC coverage zone. So Squid combined the advantages of depth charges (large charge) with the advantages of Hedgehog (forward firing). Later, Limbo became the primary anti-submarine weapon, with a fully steerable launcher, before that in turn was superceded by helicopters with anti-submarine torpedoes. Drach, I'd be interested to know if my theory is supported by any historical documents?
@@alexandermonro6768 For perspective, I served on a USN DE in the '70s. We had an ASROC launcher forward and ASW torpedo tubes P/S about 2/3 aft. My ship was also used in the testing program (ISSM) that resulted in the Harpoon. The ISSM was fired from the ASROC launcher. Loud ay ef. Fun times.
The modern nuclear powered sea wolves were crazy fast underwater. Not as crazy as the Russians, but still notable. And the US torpedoes were crap in WW2, there are quite a few youtube videos going into the history of the crap torpedoes that the US submarine force in WW2 had to use. Granted, the modern US torpedoes are amazing, and very deadly.
Thought the idea of the Mark 14 torpedo was not to hit, but detonate under the ship? Fascinating why it worked so poorly. Shameful why it was so long before the Navy stopped blaming the crews.
that would be Soul Destroying for the crew of the attacking DE. . It's sad to die in the line of duty , but to die from Friendly Fire Crushing . With all the miss fires with the MK14 and also the MK 10 , is or was there a safety device on the torpedoes' . There is a lot of ordnance that requires a pin or switch to be pulled or turned before they would explode . Just asking
Now in fairness, had the mk14 been more successful earlier on, the japanese might have gotten better at ASW, though given that almost all of their aircraft carrier fleet would have been sunk by then it would have probably been still a better outcome
And plain old Hampshire. I work there and it doth mildly annoy when people blithely forget the one that has been around for 844 years (and lies on an inlet that has been in use as a harbour for at least twice that time).
I remember playing the Super Nintendo Game PTO2 (pacific theatre of operations) and if I ever engaged ships with a American sub I lost track of how many times my torpedoes would miss only for the submarine to be promptly sunk by said target lol. Playing Japanese subs was like a cheat code in comparison.
This AWESOME video makes me wonder why the new subs are called "Seawolf". Sure...it's a great name...and I *guess* you can claim that "it wasn't sunk by the enemy"...but it makes me wonder. That said, I *HIGHLY* recommend the book "Thunder Below"!!!
The hull designation for a diesel electric U.S. submarine should be SS, not a single S. The Seawolf should be listed as SS-197. As to her loss, the only thing that might have saved her was if she surfaced, which her mission probably made impossible. I'd hate to have been on the ship that killed her.
Pinned post for Q&A :)
I've got a pretty long question, but it's basically "How would the German post-WW1 battlefleet look like after German victory in WW1?"
I had the idea to write an alternate timeline of Europe which diverges with Germany not invading Belgium in 1914, and this snowballs into events like Italy joining the Central Powers and both British and American entry into WW1 being considerably delayed, and culminates in Germany defeating both Russia and France by 1916-17.
Now, first of all, Germany building ships like the L20ea is in my opinion completely unrealistic. I think Germany would be a treaty member of the Washington Naval Treaty with the same 5 to 3 ratio as Japan.
(There are reasons for this, although not really relevant to this question. Basically, Germany would have tons of work to do for its army after victory in WW1, with only a partial demobilisation being realistically possible. Germany would need to keep troops in Poland, Finland, Ukraine and the Baltics due to the Russian civil war, would likely occupy parts of Belgium and France for several years, would need to keep order in directly annexed territories like the Polish border strip, Southern Belgium and Luxembourg, and would probably also need to have troops available in the likely case of Austro-Hungarian collapse, in which case Germany would want to annex Austria and the Sudetenland. So shipyard workers would be at premium, especially since Germany would also need to build a modern cruiser force to police its new overseas territories, such as the Mittelafrika supercolony)
So I think Germany would simply complete the capital ships already under construction, and retain its most modern existing units. The entire Jutland Fleet with the exception of the Iron Dog would go to the breakers (perhaps they'd gift a König to Finland or the Baltic Duchy, but if I remember correctly, the treaty forbade this, and these new nations would be under German protection anyways - the Baltic would be a German lake). Assuming that only Lützow had been lost in WW1, by the mid-1920ies, the German battlefleet might look like this:
• Bayern, Baden, Sachsen and Württemberg
• Derfflinger and Hindenburg
• 2 Mackensen-class battlecruisers (probably the 1st and 2nd ships, that would be Mackensen and Graf Spee)
• 2 CVs built from Mackensen hulls (probably the 3rd and 4th ships, that would be Prinz Eitel Friedrich and Fürst Bismarck)
• 2 Ersatz-Yorck-class battlecruisers - Those would be the German equivalent of the Nelson and Nagato classes since they are a solid design and the other treaty nations wouldn't tolerate the 420mm gun ships anyways. Designing and building a completely new ship with a completely new 406mm gun while half of your workforce is currently on a well-deserved holiday all over Europe likely won't work out so well. At 33.500 tons, they also fit nicely into the treaty - I assume the Germans would do a bit of redesign to use up the remaining tonnage, perhaps completing the ships with 150mm turret secondaries and 88mm AA guns, just like the OTL 1928 battlecruiser proposal. Those ships might be named Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, and one of them might become the new fleet flagship, succeeding the Baden in that role*.
So 4 battleships, 6 battlecruisers and 2 CVs in total.
Another thing to mention is that all German battlecruisers, beginning with the Iron Dogs, had a 12inch main belt and a 9inch upper belt. Especially the 350mm and 380mm gunned ships are thus very close to the fast battleship type - if given a somewhat reasonable armor deck with heavy scarps connected to the lower edge of the 12inch belt, they should have pretty decent staying power, even against the 15inch Greenboy shells. Alternatively, they could have removed the generously applied 9inch armor together with the 150mm casemate guns and fitted a thick armor deck on the top edge of the 12inch belt together with new turret secondaries.
*Other possibilities for the 2 ships representing the "German Nelson/Nagato" could be one of the L1 to L3 designs, which were basically 220 meter long Bayerns with better deck armor (L1), another 380mm turret (L2) or a 26 knot speed (L3). But honestly, the Ersatz-Yorck-class just looks better to me, and most importantly, was further advanced in the production chain and thus more efficient to procure. The only real advantage of these ships over the Ersatz-Yorck-class would be the 14inch belt, but again, the Ersatz-Yorck-class would likely receive an upgrade anyways, possibly somewhat merging the designs - they are pretty close already.
Yet another remote possibility would be a 420mm gunned ship (although I highly doubt the other nations would accept such a large gun), but the Germans never had a design proposal for such a ship on 35.000 tons in the first place. In fact, they designed a ship on 40.000 tons, and this had only 2 twin 420mm turrets, with armor and speed being unknown, though likely a 12inch belt (possibly 14inch, but I really don't know) and a 28 knot top speed. Again, the Ersatz-Yorck-class simply looks far more usable and both faster and cheaper to build. 420mm guns are simply not feasible on a 35.000 ton ship in my opinion, unless you sacrifice speed to a ridiculous degree, which I think highly unlikely, given that the Germans in our timeline devoted so much work to developing actual fast battleships towards the end of WW1.
I would absolutely love to hear your opinion on this complex issue. Do you agree with the ships I chose for completion and retention? Any ideas or corrections would be more than welcome.
What was the worst friendly fire incident within the same navy in history? (Mogami’s infamous torpedo salvo and Operation Wilkinger do not count, as these were between different branches of the military and not within the navy by itself).
What are your favourite naval superstitions?
Are there 100s (or thousands?) of unexploded torpedoes just laying around on the oceans floor? And do fishing trawlers ever pull them up, or set them off!
Seeing a guide on a WW2 sub made me wonder; are you planning on coming to the Midwest/Great Lake states in the US on one of your trips over? The Gato class USS Silversides is here in West Michigan on Lake Michigan, Muskegon to be exact, and is a great visit. I know of some other museum ships along the Great Lakes as well. Thinking of ships on your upcoming visits, we obviously don't have anything gigantic like the USS Massachusetts or the USS Midway, but the ships we do have are interesting nonetheless!
I always forget how bad the Mk 14 really is until Drach gives another detailed accounting of how it failed to sink a ship. Six torpedoes expended, and the target still managed to limp home for repairs. It's a wonder more sub captains didn't just surface and ram the enemy out of sheer frustration.
welded steel tub rammed by a coke can. nope.
@@em1osmurf Not for sinking the target, just to make a suicide attempt 😁
Oddly I had a discussion about the MK 14 yesterday.
The mk14 wasn’t a bad design overall. But without adequate trials and the guy in charge being a dick gives us the mk14 torps we know and love.
Toquote Doc Brown "He's in a '46 Ford, we're in a Delorean. He'd rip through us like we were tin foil."
The feeling of accidentally sinking your own sub must have been extremely soul crushing for the DE's crew
As all friendly fire incidents
Owch!
It would’ve been an absolute gutting feeling, I can’t begin to even imagine
They shouldn't have attacked in that safe zone. I read about this in several books on ww2.
@@rutabagasteuremind me about a hunting accident story I saw the other day. A hunter somebody's family husky. Guy said he thought it was a coyote.
I get the feeling that top brass always seems to forget to watch out when they are using a vessel for super secret squirrel missions
USS Indianapolis for example.
@@em1osmurf Sorry, dude. Indie Maru's super secret squirrel mission had already ended. She had been released for reassignment as 3rd fleet flafship, and was torpedoed on her way to report in. What happened to Indie Maru after being torpedoed was pants on head stupidity resulting in part from Navy SOPs
Well, if you tell anybody about your secret mission, it's hardly secret anymore, is it?
@@boobah5643 If I recall correctly Col Paul Tibbets sort of gave the game away regarding Indie Maru's secret mission from Bocks Car over Nagasaki
@@michaelbourgeault9409 Tibbets flew Enola Gay over Hiroshima. Charles Sweeney flew Bockscar over Nagasaki (Bock had been assigned to another plane). USS Indianapolis carried components for Little Boy, the bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
Seawolf is one of those all-time awesome ship names.
Fantastic book by Jack London as well!
Seadragon, Searaven and Seafox were couple of other great names from this period. I wish we hadn't moved away from this naming scheme for subs.
What inglorious end to a long surviving submarine with a good career
WOW!
I didn’t see the ending of this one coming a mile away.
God bless those brave men.
Yes a gut punch
I can not imagine the mental state of the crew launching so many torpedoes with such results 😞
remember the scene where the torpedo room crews were gambling on which would sink major tonnage?
@@em1osmurf what movie was that?
@@em1osmurf are you talking about Midway?
@@darthwarspite8544 don't recall. too lazy for google.
The MK XIV was Japans most effective anti Submarine weapon.
Maybe we should have nicknamed it the 'McClellan'.
Richard M. Rowell's war diary from her sinking of Seawolf:
At 1225 ASP plane reported sub on surface about seven miles away. Plane attacked and dropped dye marker - results of attack were negative and submarine submerged on a northwesterly course. Proceeded at best speed to area. At 1311 made sound contact on submarine. At 1315 made hedgehog attack - sound gear reported one explosion but this was not noticed on the bridge. At 1327 made second hedgehog attack - three to five definite explosions were heard or felt on the bridge - debris was blown to the surface and sank at once indicating it was metal or some heavy materiel - no oil slick was noticed for total time this vessel remained in the area. A large bubble of air came to the surface shortly after the debris. One piece of debris, looking like the end of a periscope, was seen to come up vertical out of the water about two feet, tilt over to an angle of about 70 degrees, and then sink. Commanding Officer of SHELTON concurs in the opinion that it appeared to be a periscope. The submarine attempted to jam sound gear by sending a continuous dash on his gear from about 300 yards on in, and was highly evasive, fish-tailing all the time. At 1340 made third hedgehog attack with negative results. Area was now full of wakes and explosion boils and it is doubtful that any of the remaining attacks were made on the submarine itself although he was close. At 1350 made fourth hedgehog attack with negative results. At 1355 fired thirteen charge depth charge pattern set at very deep where sub was thought to be. About two minutes after explosions of the charges were heard, a distinct underwater explosion was heard, or possibly felt, on the bridge, coming from the general direction of the submarine. At 1403 made fifth hedgehog attack with negative results. Sound conditions were bad due to wakes and boils. During all early attacks submarine was estimated to be making three knots and was making highly evasive course changes during all attacks. It is thought possible that the embarrassing attacks made at 0839 and 0842 may have shaken him up causing the sub to surface when planes and surface craft were nearby and that his speed was reduced somewhat. This would account for his low speed during attacks.
Great video. My dad was on the Bang. He talked about Seawolf. It brought tears to his eyes. I sure would like a video in the Bang.
My grandfather served on the Sargo (S-188) and Searaven (S-196). Always great to learn more about these boats in particular!
CyHawk my dad served on Silversides SS 236
What if, by some wild coincidence, all of the Mk14s included steel salvaged from the Kamchatka?
That would explain a lot.
That ship was just waiting for a new host body. She waited infecting the MK 14's waiting for her new host. that being the currently not even remotely in actual service Russian aircraft carrier.
@@jonmcgee6987 The spirit of Kamchatka did first settled down in the German G7 torpedo, but Dönitz was fast in perfroming a exorcism.
@@jonmcgee6987 I'm gonna write this as a new SCP and credit you for the idea 😆
@@Boneworm852 Thank you.
An ancient malignant creature. It's body slain by a great noble Russian warrior. While it's body was dead. the soul of this ancient evil continued on. Haunting the Russian lands looking for a way to resurrect it's body. Then eventually coming across a ship under construction. Here was the body it would use. Waiting to regain it's power under the ship's innocent guise. when it departed with the fleet. It's malignant soul seeped terror, pain, and misery on those around it. Before it came across a ship with the spirit of a noble Samurai. Recognizing this ancient evil. It struck down it down. Casting it into the depths to never reappear. It was dead but the soul remained. Again, waiting for the time it could live again. Infecting the MK 14 torpedo's. Then when a new host body came about. It returned taking it over. To spread it's pain, misery, and evil against the Russian people.
Great video of a tragic war-time loss.
On a lighter note, I think you should do the history of USS Sea Tiger for April First (wink-wink, nudge-nudge, know-what-I-mean, know-what-I-mean). While she was portrayed by a trio of Balao-class boats in the film, she would have been a Sargo-class submarine. As a boy, my ex-Navy dad too me to the place where the "Phillippines" scenes were filmed at Naval Station Key West where he taught sonar post-war.
My relative went down on the USS Scorpion SS276
In WW2.
Thanks for the video!
Bad luck name for a sub.
@@larryzigler6812
Yes!
My Great Grandfather served aboard Saury SS-189 during the war as a machinist mate, glad to see more of the Sargo Class being covered here on the channel, would hope to see a guide to the rest of the Sargo's
Greetings, Drach! Could you make a guide on O19 and/or her sister boat? They had great careers serving the dutch navy
While serving on the Seawolf (SSN-21), a new sonarman checked onboard. His name was Rowell. I knew the history of the first Seawolf and shared it with some shipmates.
Anyone read the book “Pigboats?” A great history of American submarine history of ww2. The book also covers the torpedo issues quite well.
Thanks for the suggestion !! Ebay or Abebooks ? Here I come....
🚬😎
I will never get over how ridiculous the story of the Mk 14 was, from how bad it performed to how fervently the brass defended it
F35? USS Ford? LCS?
I love how you are featuring submarines, May I suggest on your next trip to the U.S. you visit Muskegon Michigan which has the USS Silversides, SS 236, she is one of the top producing Subs of WW2 and had the first cappendix removed under way. She is still in her ear appearance, with much of her equipment having 1941 build dates. Also the engines run, you might be there when they start them. And yes, I’m quite proud of this boat, my dad served on her during 1944-1945, making three war patrols as a gunners mate and sonar operator
It would be interesting to try and go back and figure out what these submarines' kill counts would have looked like, if the torpedoes had worked early in the war.
Thats entire Chaos Butterfly Effect here. Actually losing some warships, troop transports and supply ships early on would alter entire japanese war strategy. Most of existing battles would never happened in the first place.
I've read a few threads on the Alternate History Forum about it.
If torpedoes worked before the war. The war could have ended maybe 6-8 months earlier.
@@randomnickify
Not remotely the butterfly affect.
The butterfly affect is a tiny change having a big affect later on.
A LOT of ships got hit with non-exploding torpedoes.
It would have been a massive difference.
@Robert Pruitt tiny change - a torpedo that actually work - change: entirety of the effing Pacific War, that is Buterfly Effect.
@@randomnickify
The butterfly affect isn't change anything.
It's very specifically a VERY tiny change.
Getting that piece of trash torpedo to work, was hardly a VERY tiny change.
You're trying to compare the affect a butterfly's wings have in relation to the entire atmosphere, to a torpedo to ships.
The butterfly affect would be more like if a single screw was all that was needed to fix them.
Might you dig up some info on the USS Wakefield, A liberty ship my father served on that apparently developed a 100+ft crack along her side just above the waterline during an Atlantic transit.
Once a frustrated captain was using a hammer smashing the trigger of these very modern torpedoes in the middle of the harbor, after returning from mission. Nothing happened. 😉
Not sure where I read it though or if really true.
That's one of those stories that I doubt is true, but I wish it were.
I can't imagine a sub skipper no matter how frustrated he was, doing a "Bugs Bunny" demonstration like that.
Edward Beach's excellent book "Submarine" has a chapter devoted to Seawolf. His fiction books "Run Silent, Run Deep" and "Dust on the Sea" also give good insight into the WW2 Pacific US Submarine campaign.
Did they ever find her wreck or was there no attempt to find her after the war?
Also, I'm so happy to see you did a collab with Rex's hangar!
Really I can understand in a 5-minute guide how little can actually be put in. Put the Seawolf herself in the list of greatest submarines in the United States has ever had. The amount of War patrols that this ship did was insane. Two of her captains ended up in command positions. I have said it before but anyone interested in the United States war regarding submarines really needs the book called Silent victory
Hi Drac, an interesting topic for you might be the Squalus (Sailfish) - Sculpin story of WW2.
Thanks for all your great content.
Have you considered doing a guide on USS Squalus?
Awesome video. Looking forward to meeting you on board the USS New Jersey.
I recall years back encouraging you to dump the text to speech app on your vid and let us hear your voice. You proved us your capable of a non- monotone delivery. Years later and the world marched on.. to my favorite naval historiographer. I dedicate the drinking of a Black Russian dedicated to the captain and the must have been phenomenally terrorized and long suffering crew of the Kamchatka. Just always remember... the fishing boat you see may just indeed be a torpedo boat from the far side of the world! better safe then sorry!
Please, make video about polish submarine "Orzeł" and its escape from Baltic Sea in 1939!
Great video on a great sub with a tragic end.
I absolutely love these shorts (5 mins or less!) uploads, can you please please do one on the HMS Celendine? I'll pay! 👍😉
Thank you, Drachinifel.
i could watch the intro to the 5 min episodes for hours. the old ladies are amazing and beautiful...Drachinifel, could you please put together a collage of the clips that you use for intros? it would be comforting to us old folks
but...what was seawolfs mission? Surely someone found out in the 80 years since?
Probably landing Kit Carson type scouts to work with the native islanders. There was a lot of that going on.
I read somewhere it is in very deep water.
@@Tempestzzzz there is often very deep water between islands especially if they're the remains of a guyot or seamount - that's formerly been above the surface as a volcanic feature and is now a low island. The water close in can be extremely deep and its that which makes them great environments for sea life, because the slopes act to push cold water with high nutrients up toward the surface.. It could easily be within a mile of an island or island chain and be up to 1000 ft deep..
But it'd be interesting to find out why it didn't signal or anything because I guarantee they could tell the signatures of the surface craft were friendlies, or why they didn't just do an emergency blow and surface but remain closed up. They're easily recognisable compared to enemy craft..
Having read the log entry in the other comment, I have my suspicions that there's info that was accideliberately not included. If a surface boat can make sonar contact then there are ways for the sub to alert them to their mistake. My take, being a cynic, is the sub communicated clearly who they were, and Captain Idiot decides its a ruse and proceeds to pound the crap out of them... Especially since the sub apparently makes no attempt to get into any firing position, which I'd imagine would be noted in the log, was purely running evasive..
Stinks like 15 year old Lancre Blue to me..
If the mark 14 actually worked properly from the start, I wonder how the war in the Pacific would have gone.
Great name for a sub. Tragic end.
Workout then Espresso, Donuts & Drachinifel, perfect morning.
toast, and a 16oz cup of lambrusco, yes indeed perfect!
Love these travelogues about US WW2 subs in the Pacific. I wonder if there was any US Sub action in the Atlantic or Med?
Thanks drach
Can Drach review the 1942 Attack on Convoy 92?
Cool boat. Great work Drach
I met the sole survivor of the Sea Wolf in 1990 in Annandale Virginia.
Could you make a video on the Implacable-class aircraft carrier
Thank you.
My husband had a family member that was serving on the Seawolf when it was sunk, J.B. Call
Thank you
Have you done a video on USS COD. She had a good story, made it through the war and is on display in Cleveland, Ohio
The horror of being stalked remorselessly by friendly forces...
Honestly they should have surfaced, probably they will have meet with gun fire but at least there was more chance that they identified it as friendly
@@d.olivergutierrez8690 I wonder the same thing.
@@d.olivergutierrez8690 The first attack run might've damaged their equipment and hindered their ability to change depth, and the constant follow up attacks would've made any system repairs hectic and unlikely to be completed.
Guess no drydock episode today
It should be remembered why the torpedoes were so bad.
The problem - was that it wasn't just one problem.
1) The Torpedoes ran deeper than set.
2) The contact exploder would break if hitting the target at a 90 degree angle instead of detonating the warhead. If the torpedo hit at an angle - then it ... _might_ go off.
3) Torpedoes with Magnetic Influence exploders were designed to pass under the target and detonate there - doing the most damage. The problem here was the Earths Magnetic Field was inconsistent so that sometimes it would set the torpedo off before it reached the target and sometimes it wouldn't set it off at all. With the Torpedoes depth set for them to run under the ship for the Magnetic Influence Torpedo to do it's work - if the Magnetic Exploder didn't set it of - it was already set deep enough that it was intentionally passing under the target and the contact detonator wouldn't get a chance to work.
Because of all these different problems - they were getting inconsistent results and had trouble recognizing what was happening. Also - at one point in time - the Officer Commanding the Submarines in one area - had been the Officer who had supervised the Torpedo Program that developed these Torpedoes - and refused to hear anything bad said against them.
The crews of the subs were forbidden to modify the torpedoes but would do it anyway. One common trick was to disable the Magnetic Influence Exploders. There was a mark painted on the screws sealing the innards of the torpedo - but - the crews would repaint the ones they hadn't used when they came back to port.
The problem here - was that the Torpedoes were still running deeper than set. This was determined by placing a harbor gate net out - and firing torpedoes through it. The holes made by the torpedoes showed how deep they were really running. Here - the crews would just set the torpedoes to run shallower - to get them to run at the proper depth.
The faulty contact exploders were determined by winching torpedoes up with a crane - and then dropping them nose first onto steel or concrete (without of course any explosives). This showed that the contact exploders were breaking.
These Torpedoes - because of budgets and lack of suitable targets - were only tested twice - and - one of those two torpedoes ran right under the old submarine that was the target. So the Americans entered WWII with a Torpedo that during testing had a 50% failure rate. The magnetic exploders had been repeatedly tested but without explosives so the torpedoes could be recovered, examined and used again. All these tests had been done at a part of the Earth where the Magnetic Field in the testing area was the same as that where they had been calibrated.
The British and the Germans both tried to use Magnetic Exploders as well and neither of them could make them work either. One U Boat Captain fired multiple torpedoes at the _Warspite_ as it was entering the Fjord to Narvik and they all exploded to soon. He then repeated the same thing as the _Warspite_ left with the same results. My understanding - is that this Captain was literally pounding his fist on someone's desk when he got back and adamantly refusing to ever use Magnetic Influence Exploders ever again. Fortunately for the Germans and the British - their contact exploders worked and their torpedoes ran at the depth they were set at
..
😔Eternal patrol😪 T_T 7
Have you ever done the USS Copperfin which the movie Destination Tokyo was based on?
USS Copperfin is a made up boat and never existed.
For many years there has been an SSN Seawolf on display in Galveston, Texas. Is this a subsequent sub that was given the same name? Just curious. I enjoy your channel.
there was a an entire modern Seawolf class, with the lead ship being named Seawolf
The park is named Seawolf Park after this boat, but the sub on display is USS Cavalla, who is not a nuclear sub.
@@S0RGEx They do have the sail from the The USS Cavalla SSN 684 at Seawolf Park but the SS 244 is there almost intact.
@@webbtrekker534 The sail is from Tautog SSN-639. Cavalla SS-244 is fully intact.
@@S0RGEx I stand corrected on Tautog. Cavalla may look complete but almost all of her under topside deck piping and equipment was removed during a major "overhaul" due to years of neglect and poor maintenance causing the deck to rot away and become unsafe. (the original deck had plywood and 4 inches of concrete on top of that.) That was replaced in the early 2000's. I have acted as a docent and worked on work parties on her on 3 different occasions over the years. Now at 77 I'm not as agile as I once was.
FYI the Portsmouth Base is in New Hampshire... ;)
On behalf of all the granite staters that would agree, we respectfully point out, that whatever that second hand of a state may say, the portsmouth naval yard is in portsmouth New Hampshire.
Portsmouth Naval Yard is in New Hampshire not Maine
I do believe that Admiral Yamamoto did most of the development work of the MK14.
There is a really good non fiction WW2 submariner book called "Grey Wolves, Grey Sea".
Has the wreckage of the USS Seawolf been located? Examination of the wreckage might show if it was sunk by hedgehogs.
I realize that the Sargo and Salmon classes are sometimes referred to as the S-class, but my impression was that the pennant numbers for submarines in that period were prefixed by SS, much as battleships were BB and destroyers were DD. Or was using SS a later development?
Yes, SS- has been the hull number initials for submarines since 1920.
I ended up sinking a US SSN in a wargame at the Naval War College. To be fair it was a Kobyashi Maru situation. The controller told me if I held my fire he would have declared it hostile and sunk the carrier.
Yeah, but don't you have screeds of data telling you it's a friendly? I've never yet heard of any submarines capable of gimmicking a sonar signature overlay to hide who they are..
No win scenario a good training test to be fair... But the situation you describe..
@@rosiehawtrey ...was a training test. The lesson be taught is that you can screw up.
I have always wondered if all those wooden shampans were really related to the japanese military and were only civilian chinese (or other nationality) traders.
In the movie Master and Commander, the HMS Surprise is severely damaged. Where would a ship of that era store the needed materials for repairs, (the "spare" main mast, rope and sailcloth)?
Depends on how long from a decent port. They carried sailcloth and rope, and some spare spars (not lower masts - but could be jury-rigged). In one of the books Jack Aubrey notes a French captain's cautious sailing, and remarks that, so far from supply, he would swap his bosun for a hundred fathom of six inch line. In another, he beaches a 64 in a remote Antarctic island and repairs a gash in the hull and a damaged rudder - an event taken from actual history.
You need to increase the narration audio about 6 db and the intro guns about 10.
I'm going to be very pointlessly pedantic and echo various people...
Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, where SS-197 Seawolf was built, is in Maine.
Portsmouth is in Hampshire (and has been for over 840 years). And in New Hampshire, Iowa, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, Virginia, Michigan, West Yorkshire, Ontario and Dominica.
OK, now do "Plymouth" or "London". Context is everything.
Our grandmother's brother's only son died on the Seawolf in the friendly fire accident.
That's a story with a very sad and unfortunate ending.
Did the Japanese Navy realize how crappy our torps were?
i read a book about a sub called seawolf once. great story, but it didnt end happily...
that whole ending sounded so much better in "Operation Petticoat"...
Mark 14 ? Hmmmm .. try spitballs. My Dad had a story or 2. Great video....per usual.
Drach: Hedgehog versus Squid. Why did we move away from a contact detonator and back to a hydrostatic detonator? From what I've read, Hedgehog worked. Why did we proceed with Squid?
I believe that Squid had a much larger explosive charge than Hedgehog, comparable to a traditional depth charge. So it didn't need a contact hit to be effective. However, unlike a depth charge, it could be fired forward, where the the sub was still in the ASDIC coverage zone. So Squid combined the advantages of depth charges (large charge) with the advantages of Hedgehog (forward firing).
Later, Limbo became the primary anti-submarine weapon, with a fully steerable launcher, before that in turn was superceded by helicopters with anti-submarine torpedoes.
Drach, I'd be interested to know if my theory is supported by any historical documents?
@@alexandermonro6768 For perspective, I served on a USN DE in the '70s. We had an ASROC launcher forward and ASW torpedo tubes P/S about 2/3 aft. My ship was also used in the testing program (ISSM) that resulted in the Harpoon. The ISSM was fired from the ASROC launcher. Loud ay ef. Fun times.
The modern nuclear powered sea wolves were crazy fast underwater. Not as crazy as the Russians, but still notable.
And the US torpedoes were crap in WW2, there are quite a few youtube videos going into the history of the crap torpedoes that the US submarine force in WW2 had to use.
Granted, the modern US torpedoes are amazing, and very deadly.
Thought the idea of the Mark 14 torpedo was not to hit, but detonate under the ship?
Fascinating why it worked so poorly. Shameful why it was so long before the Navy stopped blaming the crews.
Both the Royal Navy and Kriegsmarine tried to use magnetic exploders and both Navy's experienced the same failures.
For those interested the long-range weather for the USS New Jersey visit next week is not promising. Fingers crossed they're wrong.
SS Odax 484 my uncle captain out of Key West 1950's.
Blue on Blue is always worse than a loss to the enemy.
Has the wreck been found?
that would be Soul Destroying for the crew of the attacking DE. . It's sad to die in the line of duty , but to die from Friendly Fire Crushing . With all the miss fires with the MK14 and also the MK 10 , is or was there a safety device on the torpedoes' . There is a lot of ordnance that requires a pin or switch to be pulled or turned before they would explode . Just asking
Now in fairness, had the mk14 been more successful earlier on, the japanese might have gotten better at ASW, though given that almost all of their aircraft carrier fleet would have been sunk by then it would have probably been still a better outcome
The whole MK14 saga still angers me. People should have went to jail
There's no one person to blame. The whole affair is just due to circumstances and policy.
On occasion they would explode inside the sub. It still counts right.
Portsmouth is in New Hampshire
And plain old Hampshire.
I work there and it doth mildly annoy when people blithely forget the one that has been around for 844 years (and lies on an inlet that has been in use as a harbour for at least twice that time).
And Iowa, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, Virginia, Michigan, West Yorkshire, Ontario and Dominica.
The only U. S. submarine I know about, thanks to a arcade game at Chuck E. Cheese. What a weird way to teach kids.
Portsmouth isn't in Maine...it's in New Hampshire
cool..........i guess IJN Yubari will be next.
Ah yes, Seawolf: The sea Airwolf
You misunderstand, those torpedoes were kinetic energy weapons like modern tank APFSDS rounds.
(this is a joke)
I remember playing the Super Nintendo Game PTO2 (pacific theatre of operations) and if I ever engaged ships with a American sub I lost track of how many times my torpedoes would miss only for the submarine to be promptly sunk by said target lol. Playing Japanese subs was like a cheat code in comparison.
My love of Naval history and the WWII Pacific battle started with the original PTO!
I play PTO 4 on my Play Station 2 almost every day. I love that game! In that game the torpedo works from the American perspective.
What can I say? I did not know about the tragedy of *this* American submarine named Seawolf.
I has a 2nd cousin that was on the submarine Seawolf. Now on eternal patrol.
Would this be the type of submarine from the movie ‘Operation Petticoat’?
The sub filmed for operation petticoat apparently was USS Queenfish, a Balao-class sub. so it's a different type
@@Talon3000 thanks
7 maxims for maximally effective mercenaries: "Friendly fire isn't." ^-^
Shout out to "Schlock Mercenary."
Ah, the most glorious and totally fine stop asking torpedos show their beautiful faces again.
This AWESOME video makes me wonder why the new subs are called "Seawolf". Sure...it's a great name...and I *guess* you can claim that "it wasn't sunk by the enemy"...but it makes me wonder.
That said, I *HIGHLY* recommend the book "Thunder Below"!!!
The hull designation for a diesel electric U.S. submarine should be SS, not a single S. The Seawolf should be listed as SS-197. As to her loss, the only thing that might have saved her was if she surfaced, which her mission probably made impossible. I'd hate to have been on the ship that killed her.