Dutch Submarines at the start of the Pacific Campaign - 'Ship a day' Helfrich leads the charge!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Today we look at the opening months of the submarine campaign in the Pacific to see what the Dutch were getting up to whilst everyone else was absent or wishing for working torpedoes...
Sources:
www.history.na...
www.dutchsubmar...
The Great Circle - Vol. 43, No. 2, Special Issue: Submarines (2021), pp. 62-74
ahoy.tk-jk.net/...
www.amazon.co....
www.amazon.co....
archive.navals...
www.rnsubmusfr...
warfare.gq/dutc...
Naval History books, use code 'DRACH' for 25% off - www.usni.org/p...
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
I was surprised to learn today that the IJN Ibuki class carrier-conversions were a thing, with the design having originated as a heavy cruiser followup to the Mogami class. I'm curious as to your opinion on these conversions. How would the Ibukis compare to foreign conversions? Do you think the conversion was worth pursuing? How well do you think the Ibukis could have faired in operations (assuming of course that the Ibukis could actually find aircraft and trained aircrews?)
The new Music works!! Like it!! 😀
Question: How many ships with the same name were lost during WW1 or WW2?
I know of one example...There were two Destroyers named U.S.S. Meredith lost during World War 2. D.D. 434, and D.D. 726.
How about a special about Greek subs during WWII?
Which ships would you give the Elbonian navy?
Drach is making an understatement when he reports that the bosun of the O16 "swam to a nearby island". In fact, there were were six survivors of the sinking, who had all been on the bridge at the moment the sub hit the mine. None had a lifesaver. Over the next day, all drowned one by one until only quartermaster Cor de Wolf remained. After swimming for 34 hours he reached an island 80 kilometres from the spot where the sub sank. He was rescued by locals and delivered after a trip by sailing boat and through the jungle to Australian troops on Malaya and from there to Singapore. Amazingly, within days of his return to Java he was back in the submarine service, survived the war and retired in 1962 as a skipper.
I read Cor de Wolf's story in one of K. Norel books in Dutch highschool.
The other initial survivors in his group drowned because they became exhausted while De Wolf kept swimming for such an incredible long time.
@@AudieHollandI would like to read more about this
@@karuskaltugov1992you can buy the book secondhand
@@karuskaltugov1992 The book is called "Varen en Vechten" , a trilogy about the Dutch merchant fleet and Naval forces during World War II. Clearly the audience was teenager boys but the historical accuracy will be appreciated by adults. Norel was a journalist who researched his topics well. I read some of his books and to date I wonder why they were never made into film.
@@prjw73 much appreciated
Nice to have a story about Dutch WW2 vessels that doesn't conclude with "and then the whole class was sunk".
@@WiegrafFollesOn what?
@@MelrieoiBased as in agreeing.
Gen Z slang. Move along
Helfrich predicted the Japanese would start the war by attacking Pearl Harbor. He probably deduced it from the the fact that the Japanese began the Russo-Japanese War with a surprise attack on Port Arthur.
IIRC they started their involvement in WW1 with a surprise air attack on Tsingtau as well.
That and the U.S. Pacific Fleet was the biggest danger to the Japanese Navy.
So did the Americans with the greatest irony being that they simulated an attack on pearl using their own aircraft carriers years before it happened
@@gotanon9659
And then the judges disallowed it because they separated the aircraft carriers from the rest of the battle fleet.
And not to mention, they did it on a Sunday and disallowed it because "Who would attack on a Sunday?"
At the end of the Pacific war my father was interned in a camp close to harbor (he was 10). In that harbor a few K boats were in dock to recover and get repairs. One day the Red Cross took the kids from the camp to those subs, my father was welcomed by the K XIV. He was a very skinny small kid and “adopted” by the crew, at the end of the day they went back to the camp. My father who wanted to see more escaped (the camp was still guarded by Japanese, now for protection against the Indonesians) the camp and hitched quit a few times to the K XIV, he was regarded as one of the crew, and was spoiled by them, he took a lot of food back to the camp which he gave to the other people. He even was taken on a small test ride.
Till this day he remembers the kindness of the crew, perhaps they saw in him the son they had at home, we never know.
As a Clevelander whose hometown museum ship is the USS Cod, the Dutch sub O-19 has a special place in my heart.
We love the O-19 at the boat.
Some additional info for those who don't know the story.
The Dutch O-19 had run aground on a reef north of Borneo (corrected).
The USS Cod assisted but despite several attempts, they couldn't dislodge the Dutch submarine.
So the only thing left was to take the Dutch crew onboard and scuttle the O-19.
On the USS Cod's conning tower, next to rows of sunk Japanese ships, a cocktail glass was painted marked 'O-19'
to symbolize both the fortunes of war and the brotherhood between the Dutch and American sailors.
You will find the video by searching for:
*USS COD gato class destroys dutch submarine*
@@AudieHolland👍
The Dutch O-Boats be righteously kicking some Japanese backside.
In the early-war context of almost uniform naval disaster for the Allied side it is strange that the Dutch submarine successes are rarely mentioned. Well done!
Maybe becuase the dutch admiralty treated the surfece fleet like they were canon fodder and denied them of supplies that and a lot of people thought japanese were racialy inferior so attacking them with just light cruisers sounded like a good idea
@@sarpyasar5893The Dutch didn’t have anything heavier than cruisers.
@@grahamstrouse1165 problem was japanese had and dutch still thought attacking them was a good plan
@@sarpyasar5893 The Dutch surface ships did the best they could against more modern Japanese surface ships who outranged them so they would have to get in close but those Japanese ships were also faster so by the point the Dutch surface ships could engage there was also no running away anymore.
@@sarpyasar5893The Dutch navy had the mission to defend the Dutch East Indies. And so they tried. And they didn't have heavier ships than light cruisers. That's why they relied more on the submarines. With effect, as Drach shows.
O24 was commanded by Piet de jong from from 25.10.1944 to 08.04.1946. He later became minister of defence (27 june 1959 - 24 july 1963) and even prime minister of the Netherlands (5 april 1967 until 6 juli 1971) After O21 (ten kills) the O24 (7 kills one of them being the Chosa Maru) ,was the most succesfull Dutch submarine in WWII
Mijn opa Jan Johannes Thomas (Luitenant ter zee der 1e klasse KMR) zat op de O24. Een wonder dat hij & de O24 de oorlog overleeft heeft. Hij is 92 geworden.
Great topic to cover. The level of knowledge about the contributions of everyone outside of the Americans in the Pacific is alarmingly low from my experience. These videos at least do something to spread the information around
Absolutely. While the US was certainly the largest actor during most of the classic War in the Pacific, other countries made very important contributions and played significant roles. Not only the Dutch, but also the British, the Australians, the Philippines, and a wide variety of peoples in the territories occupied by Japan all played important and often underreported roles, and it’s nice to see some of those starting to get talked about more.
Didn’t you know that the Americans won the war all by themselves?
@@michaelimbesi2314 Soviets destroying the Japanese Kwantung Army. Operation August Storm.
@@oscarsusan3834What a cruelly heavy burden they were made to carry.
Seriously, I think they felt it.
@@Leon-bc8hmthe largest defeat inflicted upon the Japanese Imperial Army was inflicted by the Indian and British forces.
A solitaire board game on the USN Pacific submarine campaign I've played called "Silent War" includes an option to include the Dutch submarines. For their limited numbers and capabilities they do their part. And it's also nice in the early campaign to have some submarines that are not stuck with the effects of the Mark 14 torpedo.
The Dutch submarine industry is featured in the 1943 British film The Silver Fleet starring Sir Ralph Richardson.
I'll look for it. Thx.
@@murrayscott9546 It should be on youtube . : Silver Fleet - 1943 - Ralph Richardson - The Archers
Thanks for the info
Imagine you're assigned to HMS Truant and you report for duty late
an overdose of Irony?
@@nmccw3245 That joke must have been made numerous times aboard that ship XD
@@myopiniongoodyouropinionbad - indubitably
You get reassigned to HMS Spanker.
@@TomFynn😂
As ususal, Drach, you come up with something new. I'd never heard of Dutch submarines in all my reading about the Dutch East Indies or home waters in WWII.
Same despite a few pounds of documents of the period read... 🤔
@@khaelamensha3624: Even with the abundance of documents as you say, the Pacific war is largely remembered by people as a conflict between the US and Japan, overshadowing the contributions of other allied nations. So it's really not unusual for such historical references to be discussed less often as the more popular ones.
@@hawkeye5955 There were some shenanigans played.
Even before the war ended, the Dutch were.... 'discouraged' from returning to their former colonial territories.
The Dutch Navy really made an effective effort with their submarine fleet ✨👍✨
Poor K X, cursed with engines built by Murphy Corporation.
This is very interesting, Dutch Submarines finally having their Recognition, Hoping British Royal Navy Submarines of WW2 will get uncovered as well...
There are literally dozens of books covering these subjects.
Sofar i know the Royal Navy scored the first submarine to submarine (both submerged) kill in history
@@obelic71yes, forgot the boats but they did
@@obelic71 you are probably reffering HMS Venturer commanded by Lt. Jimmy Launders that sunk U-864 at the Norwegian Coast
@@admiralrover74Small boat, even smaller target, and that al in the Atlantic Ocean. what an achievement!
Cool subject. Most people interested in WWII don't think about the Dutch Submarine fleet during the war. Thanks, Drach.
I wonder how much shipping got away because of us torpedo problems....Dutch punching well above their weight 👏👏👏
Dutch submarine doctrine was well thought out , with wolfpack systems beeing developed in the early 30s demanding purpose build submarines , Including snorkels advanced hydraulics and other advanced equipment . One document even speaking of having a 74 large subamarine fleet in the far east .
Well the US failed in the early war to punch it's weight. The best comment about the bad torpedoes is the submarine service memorial in Honolulu.
"... the O boats using English numerals, whilst the K boats used Roman numerals." (01:16) - it's not "English numerals", but "Arabic numerals" in fact. Anyway: very interesting video. Thanks Drach!
"English numerals" hurts the ear, really.
Sorry to hear you lost the rights to your old intro music. Great video - as always. I especially like your description of the correct procedures to get the Mk XIV torpedo to properly engage the enemy.
I haven't touched trademarks and copyrights since law school. But there are days that I feel tempted to get back into it, doing defense work, just to give a bloody nose to these drm companies that love to violate fair use.
@@prussianhill
They're all located in lawless shitholes. India, Philipines, Russia, etc. TH-cam has to use 'guilty until proven innocent' to avoid being taken down by the US copyright mafia, and those companies not having assets in any place where you could take them to court over fraudulent copyright claims does the rest.
A fine sentiment. These drm hunters are scum who contribute nothing to the betterment of society.@@prussianhill
😧😲
Seriously his intro music is an institution! It's how I know if drac comes on in my autoplay and it always makes me happy. .. you mean to tell me some greedy goon claimed it after all these years?!
It’s not that I thought the Netherlands never had subs but this is the first time I’ve ever seen the word ‘Dutch’ and ‘submarines’ in the same sentence. Thanks, Drach.
Wargaming is licking their chops planning the like of subs for WOWS lol
First ever working submarine built and demonstrated by Dutch inventor Cornelis Drebbel in the 1620s.
New intro music? Noice!
This new music is great. So is the old music.
Shout out to the USS Grampus, Captained by my mother's cousin, the rockstar of her family in the 1930s, Robert Pollock Guiler. I heard a lot of cool stories about him. The sub was lost during the war and not yet discovered- on Eternal Patrol.
This is the first time I have heard anything about Dutch submarines in the Pacific. I knew they had ships and that things had not gone very well for their surface ships although this may be a mistaken impression on my part.
The Dutch surface ships did about as well as the allies at the start of the pacific war ....... terrible, mostly due to the deployment of bombers and torpedo planes by the Japanese against which little defense was to be had as such was not fully incorporated in the Dutch Royal Navy. The ships themselves had been largely configurated for colonial patrol and policing duties, not all out naval engagements.
A very right impression I am afraid...
@@roykliffen9674 Yes indeed, most of our ships were designed for naval patrol duty in our colonies. Besides that the ships we actually did produce to try fight of the Japanese were stripped to their bare minimum due to our Government Cutting the budget over and over and over again. It left our navy in a sorry state wich is a shame cause if this hadn't happend the Netherlands could have Owned one of the strongest colonial navies at the start of the war with Japan.
RIP to Hr. Ms. Celebes and all other good designs that were scrapped/ left uncompleted in the Netherlands after Germany overran us
Well the Dutch submarines were mostly in the Indian Ocean based out of Ceylon and Western Australia and very few American boats or ships went into the Indian Ocean, it was mainly a British (and allies) naval theater.
I’m so happy you decided to cover this topic!
Thank you Drach 🙏🏻
Got to say that is a very impressive score all things considered. These subs did their navy proud for sure.
New music really shocked me. The sky turned purple today.
Same. Groggy me thought I at first had accidentally clicked on some random video that wasn't Drach.
I had no idea that the Dutch fought in the Pacific War at all? and this is why I watch your channel (and tell my friends) so I can expand my knowledge base!
I can’t help hearing how the Dutch apparently uses oboes as warships
Onderzeeboot (under-sea-boat) was the name given to the first subs...
O-boat was an easy abbreviation I guess 😅
00:45 The designation O stands for Onderzeeboot. Unterseeboot is German, although very similar. As you mentioned, both literally translate to Underseaboat (Germanic languages use compound words a lot).
The spelling of the Dutch version of Colonial is Koloniaal, in case anyone wants to read up on it.
The old intro was iconic, but this new one is kind of a banger.
I’m going to miss the bum bum bum of the old intro :(
When I was a kid in then late ‘70s, early 80’s I read a series of Young Adult books from the library about the Dutch armed forces in WWII. More novels than factual descriptions, they did combine many true events into the lives of a small number of fictional characters. One book focused on the Dutch navy in the east, with a large part dedicated to the submarine fleet. It even included the story of the sole survivor of the mined and broken in two submarine swimming to shore. I can’t remember the name of the series, and doubt such old books would still be available, but I thoroughly enjoyed them at the time. But if this rings any bell to any Dutch, I’d love to hear more
"Varen en Vechten" by K. Norel? I read that book probably 5 times.
@@martijnb5887 For our English-speaking friends, the title translates to "To Sail and Fight".
@@martijnb5887 He, dank! De titel kan ik me niet herinneren maar K Norel does ring a bell!
@@photovincentavailable as e book , search "varen en vechten mobi ".. also vliegers in het vuur . Ik weet de naam van het boek over de landmacht niet meer..
I'll never tire of hearing Drach attempt Dutch :).
You give it a bloody good effort, you're still sounding more German than Dutch, but it's entertaining all the same
To be fair, while very similar to English and German, Dutch is full of weird inconsistencies and from my learned opinion as a dutch person has large parts which are sort of anecdotal and incomprehensible unless you sort of have field experience with it.
@@theothertonydutch Dutch is a bit inconsistent where it concerns pronunciation, but nowhere near as horrendous as English :p
I've heard the new intro song from the game World Warship Combat when I was a kid. It still slaps.
Good catch! 👍🏻
Thanks for touching on one of my favourites topics of the early war in the Pacific, Drach. Much appreciated.
RIP old intro sound track /sniffle.
New Rum Ration music very nice. Very nice episode on the submarines too.
Never knew of this Dutch submarine warfare. Great video. Thanks!
i love how the new music makes the video sound more dramatic
"March of The Terminators";)
Arguably one of the best naval commanders of the war, sadly considered to wise and above all to aggressive.
*too
Why are people barely literate these days?
@@johncitizen306Why are people so quick to judge these days?
@@cameronnewton7053 they aren't, that's the biggest problem at the moment. The pursuit of tolerance has emboldened sloth, degeneracy, and various other vices that are detrimental to both individuals and society as a whole!
@@johncitizen306 Or English isn't their first language. Either way, good luck on your voyage of changing the world! The youtube comment section is surely the best place to start such an endeavour. Really very productive of you, great to see you leading by example!
@@johncitizen306and you're spending your free time bitching about grammar on the internet instead of I don't fucking know, any thing else productive
Hi I didn't realise the Dutch were so active in the Pacific with submarines and made a good account of themselves.
The Dutch were very active do not forget all the mechanische ships, UK, Moermansk, a huge contribution especially for a small country.
I hope you do more videos on the Java Sea campaign and the Dutch East Indies. I think it's a really interesting topic that isn't talked about very much.
Thank you for chroniclng these little known heroes.
Small but fierce, that's the best way we can describe the dutch submarine fleet.
... or else the more modern subs who're using the soon to be infamous Mark 14 torpedo which had a long list of issues, as I've tabulated elsewhere. But which essentially could be described as: capable of hitting its target and exploding at the right moment, during the opening months of the war. Only if the correct rituals had appeased the Machine Spirit, the moon was in the right phase, the planets were in the right alignment and the Japanese captain who was in charge of the target vessel had significantly angered merciful Poseidon recently.😆😆😆
But exactly which items in the checklist had been missed when a sub had fired all but one of its complement and failed to get any detonations are the first one crippled the target?
Good thing Odysseus did not have have mark 14s. Posiedon was quite cross with him.
Just gotta say how much I love that new intro music.
It's excellent.
A fascinating look at a little recorded campaign by Dutch forces.
Ta much.
Excellent, another great video, carry on with your unique delivery style.
Thank you for posting Drach. I've wanted to hear this story for a while.
Good video Drach! It is important to chronicle the lesser-known aspects of both naval warfare and WWII naval events.
Excellent report as always. I'm always amazed at the footage/photos your team finds! Keep up the great work. Thanks again for an informative 30+ minutes...
New intro theme vs original ... music has been a major part of my life for over 45 years, and my first thoughts are that the original has a solid martial feel with an overlay of gravitas, sense of majesty, relentless purpose but ultimately seems to acknowledge the loss of pre-eminence of the big gun, big ship but not without (literally) a final parting shot...more to come as I get more used to the new one as always Best wishes to you and yours.
Really interesting video Drach! Thank you...A bit of positivity when everything was collapsing around the Allies in 41/42!
Given the challenges of the homeland overrun and the sudden onslaught of the Japanese Navy against the Dutch East Indies and the Dutch submarine force acquitted itself quite well.
I listened to this exercising in a pool in Manila. I brought my Pacific theater/water game to the episode. Great content as always.
Thank you, Drachinifel.
Thank you Drach, great Weds video.
I received geography classes from his sister in secondary education and did not know this until a class mate told me her maiden name was Helfrich and younger sister of the famous and much decorated "ship a day" admiral.
She was famous in her own right for traversing as the only white woman accompanied only by local bearers and guides through Borneo from south to north
through headhunter lands (!) while just out of university..So still in her mid twenties.
She engaged with the locals and was granted free passage and passed on to the other even hostile tribes.
She was the " Ïtchy Boots" of het time ..(see @itchy boots)
Those were the days.. Great story. Things that people of that generation did,makes me humble and sad . These days people don't even know how to use a paper map, that generation made maps!
Great video! Thanks. As a side note the Dutch had benefitted after WW1 receiving German U boat technology prohibeted by the Versailles treaty.
Also planes via Fokker. Guns technology the Germans sent to Switserland and Sweden.
A German pocketbook from before the war recognized the johrney of one of the later K boats sailing nigh around the world also conducting megnetic reasearch as remarkable. Of course the operating range.
The most modern 019 and O20 where minelaying boats of a type which the Poles also bought two. Wilk and Orzel.These were all welded.
And the schorkel was a Dutch invention but not like the Germans lateron wasn't for tactical use but as a way to keep the crew cool. No airco. Hence the tents on the deck.
This was the equator.
The 40mm short Bofors gun in watertight compartments.
Another I guess novelty of the O19 and subsequent towards O27 types was the fact of having two sideways traineble deck torpedo tubes.
Catching a German U boat in the Med. The type was also put into survice. 33:51
Eh.. I wasn't aware the English invented modern western numerals? I think you mean 'Arab numerals' instead of 'English numerals'? (As opposed to the Roman numerals) ;)
and to imagine that, to this day, the Dutch submarines still perform at incredibly high levels, completing some of the most dangerous missions around the world since the Dutch submarines are incredibly well-suited to sneaking around in shallow waters... officially you don't know what they're doing, but occasionally some things are reported when certain feats are unclassified...
Love learning some sub-aspect of history which most people don't even care about. Especially when it's about my own country. :)
Thank you for providing this interesting information and imagery.
that was informative.
Sorry you lost the main title music.
I think the Dutch would be surprised to hear those called "English Numerals" on the O-Boats.
It's the Dutch(and specifically this campaign) that sold me on subs(I'm a military land-lubber; Infantry). Operationally, bang-for-buck, subs are ideal.
This is something that I did not previous think would be interesting, but it actually is.
As a huge fan of The Destroyer Men series...I alway enjoy hearing stories about the happenings in the Dutch East Indies.
“English numerals”? Come now Drach…
You can only fully apreciate numerals in the klingon original.
Miss the old intro music... but this new one does have something to it!
A great summary with wonderful pictures and images.
At first I thought I launched [Airships: Conquer the Skies] (PC Game) at same time with the new music intro. Very nice.
World Warship Combat - Title Theme.
th-cam.com/video/9VAoMKi_OdQ/w-d-xo.html
Very intersting stuff. Apparently I need to learn more about dutch military history
Good you put the Dutch efforts on stage. It's mostly forgotten..
I read your post about having to change the intro music but that still threw me right off. Had to double check it was the right video
The results you can get when your torps do "BOOOOOMM!"
I like the new intro theme.
Worst logistics job in the four months after Pearl Harbor: Dutch submarine maintenance officer at Surabaya, December 1941-March 1942. He never had a good day.
How many different types of subs did he have to try to keep running?
Interwar Dutch submarine force was quite large for a navy of this size. Good bang for the money too. More large surface combatants would only provide more targets to sink by any of the potential enemies.
a dive (see what I did there?) into the activities of
a navy that gets very little mention in the annals of WW2.
bravo! to the men who served in the Dutch navy.
New opening?! Intense. I like it.
Love the music, very dramatic.
The new music is a nice touch.
Not feeling the intro music. Guess it's going to be a hard shift, such a shame. Still have the old intro playing in my head as soon as I see your video show up in my feed.
loving video. Drachinfel could you do a video on operation safari, the sinking of the Danish Royal Navy during ww2? we are almost at the 80 year "anniversary"
It looks spiffy in its new green paint, but i liked it more in its rusty patina, it makes it look more original and authentic. Either way, great show boys
the ultimate Silent Hunter mod would include the captured Dutch boats in German service, as well as UA, which was originally laid down for Turkey.
My granddad was the torpedo boss on the O11 which sunk in 1940. Germans wanted to repair the O11 but that took longer than WW2 ... on purpose ofc.
Interesting as my grandfather was horizontal rudder operator on the O10 , who also got hit during an exersize riping of most of the wires and damaging the conning tower . A bit of controversie here as at one moment the O11 had the wrong markings of O10 . and nothing can be found of O10s damage. while its clear to sea in news articles.
New Intro music, woot! Nice change, Drach.
This new intro music is very cool. I like the old one too though
Great video on a little remembered story!
I miss the old intro music already. Terrific presentation, however.
What a difference working torpedos make.
I liked the new entrance music.
I like the intro music.
Whoa! New music intro!
Digging the new theme music.
O19 and O20 were the first subs to have a sniffer, later called by the Germans who copied it from a dutch sub they took after their invasion of the Netherlands. The British were also offered the sniffer, when dutch sibs fled the german invasion, but the brits refused it and ordered the sniffers shut....:
Intro track has a little "CoD melodramatic cutscene" vibe but we're off to a good start 👍😂 very fascinating subject though been looking forward to this vid
You changed your intro music... EDIT: Seeing lots of comments about a copyright troll. Hopefully that situation gets resolved quickly (and they don't try going after all your older videos), and you can get back to using the intro we've all come to know and love.
I understand that K IX was in reserve because she was considered the dog of the Dutch submarine force. 😄
New Theme Music for the intro!