As BAD as the Germans say? The "NEW" DB Flagship High-Speed Train with a Bad Reputation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- Today, we're taking a closer look at the largest player in the German high-speed train fleet: the ICE 4. Often receiving mixed feelings from locals, is this train truly as problematic as some suggest? Let's discover the reality on our journey from Leipzig to Berlin!
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Train type: ICE 4 (XXL 13 carriges)
Route: (Zürich) - Leipzig - Berlin Hauptbahnhof
Train: ICE 76
Distance: 168km
Journey time: 1h16m
Average speed: 132 km/h
Price: 23.90 €
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I personally like the ICE 4 very much. It's not the fastest and maybe also not the most comfortable ICE, but it's a reliable, modern work horse with all the features a traveller could ask for. Its AC doesn't fail on hot days, its ride quality and sound proofing is amazing and it has bike racks (albeit few).
The only disadvantage I notice about the ICE4 is the poor accessibility. Switzerland is simply further ahead. It's not enough to have a lift at 4 doors, you need more. And yes, bicycle racks in an ICE are nice, but here too it comes at the expense of capacity. I think it's a shame that the ICE4 is a quintessentially German product and that the Velaro is more in demand abroad. It could also be used as a Eurocity in the EU, because even though it has 28.2 metre carriages, it fits into many EU loading gauges. I think it's a shame that the EU is still ordering vehicles on such a small national scale, even if a rethink is slowly taking place. All in all, I think Europe is well equipped with the current HSRs, but the rail network for transit is missing.
It is not very reliable when it gets cold though
@@michaelb4047 I am 100% with you on the accessibility issue, I just didn't mention it because it's not an issue limited to the ICE 4 but virtually all of DB's long distance travel trains. It's a disgrace to be perfectly honest, DB calls them wheelchair-accessible because they have a lift on one door but that has to be operated by train staff and is slow and flimsy and unreliable. It's not even how accessibility is defined in German law, as this states "independently, without outside assistance" so I have no idea how DB gets away with it.
I usually say the ICE line would be my favorite high speed train if German long-distance-travel platforms were at 1250 mm height and thereby level with the floor of virtually every long-distance train. Instead every ICE floor is two steep steps above every platform.
I'm pretty chill about it too. For me the comfort is pretty good and for the disadvantage in speed you'd have to think about where actually an ICE can move faster than 250km/h. If it is reliable and they never f-ing ever install the terrible seats from current ICE 2 trains I'm absolutely satisfied with it 😁
I bet that people complaining about quality of newest trains are blinded by nostalgia, which I hate to say.
Complaining about Deutsche Bahn has become a bit of a German habit. Even so much so that every one of my friends or colleagues who travelled with DB in the past few months felt obliged to mention that the connection was actually on time despite so much hoping for a delay deep inside them just to have another “see how bad DB is” story to tell 😂.
@@marcd6897 From what I know literally the whole Europe makes fun of German trains, meanwhile here in Poland people complain about everything that's done with railway. I get what people mean, but all that is way worse and a lot more unjustified than all the hate Deutsche Bahn got.
And that comes from someone who got to know about the true side of German trains not too long ago
The ice4 was developed mainly to be economical, therefore the topspeed is lower and the seats are closer together. In my opninion the ride quality is also not as good as the other ice and the soundproofing ist worse. It is still Fine and a very comfortable train, but definetely one of the worst ice trains. For example the newest ice the ice3neo is very much loved by most of the german railway community even though its new😅
As someone who travels long distance at least once a month I can say that the ICE 4 seats are just ok compared to the other ICEs. My biggest issue is that the second class seats have abysmall recline. I don't care about the top speed nor the other complaint's but if I take an ICE for 3 and a half hours I want to recline and take a nap in peace. Secondly compared to the other ICEs the interior of the second class just feels "cheap" as in something you'd see on a DB regio Train while still being an expensive product. DB announced they want to refit the ICE 4, but all in all the ICE 4 has been the weakest of the fleet in terms of interior design.
I still ride the ICE 1 compartments whenever I can, I am 22, I have a BahnCard 100 and I travel a lot, that I feel entitled to better comfort has absolutely nothing to do with nostalgia.
I also visited Japan recently and they also had much more comfortable seating.
Nice Video and i agree that the ICE 4 is pretty okay but older Trains like the ICE 1 or IC 1 are much better due to the comfort. Small fun fact the Train Driver said hello departing at Berlin Hbf with turning the light on and off :)
The main problem with ICE4 trains is that they were used to shift ICE3 to more prestigious Berlin-bound services. Now most lines on the 300 km/h Cologne-Frankfurt high-speed line are served by 250 km/h ICE4 trains (the 265 upgrade is currently limited to a dozen of the oldest ICE4 units). Because the ICE4 are slower, intermediate stops were cancelled, so some people lost most of their ICE service when ICE4 were introduced, including very popular long-distance commuter service.
One bad thing people usually ignore about older ICEs is the lack of luggage space as shown at 7:07.
Everytime an ICE 1 train is crowded, people struggle to put their suitcases near their seats. It increases boarding and de-boarding times and leads to luggage lying around everywhere around the train.
The old trais are also a lot louder than ICE 4s.
So yes, these are not the most luxurious trains ever made, but they're the backbone of the fleet and do their job well:
Carrying huge numbers of people all over the country.
Wouldn't say the ICE 4 is the one with a bad rep. The IC2 (featured in minute 2:18) is way more controversial due to it's technical flaws and it basically being a regional train with a carpet. Their max speed of 160km/h doesn't help the allegations.
New tenders and contracts would have been needed for DB to be able to buy railjets like ÖBB. And that's where the current framework agreement with Bombardier came in. The discontinuation of the Dosto 2000 and fewer Twindexx simply shifted demand. The IC2 is completely ok where it runs. In the end, it's just not an IC as people thought it would be in the 1970s.
@@michaelb4047
DB is getting railjet like trains from the spanish in form of the ICE L.
And while i agree that they are mostly fine with where they are running, theres still the reliability problem. They break down a lot to the point where a few services were replaced with ICEs.
@@UnnormaI I don't see the ICE-L as a Railjet replacement, but as a necessity for a Eurocity, which should be barrier-free, as we also have a large construction site in Germany thanks to the confusion of platform heights. In principle, however, I agree that the new ICE-L trains are a significant improvement on the IC1 sets. The only question is whether it wouldn't be cheaper in the long term if DB, ÖBB, CD and possibly also PKP were to conclude framework agreements with Siemens, e.g. for the Viaggio Comfort (Railjet Next Gen). More identical parts means better availability and less approval stress... The big advantage of the ICE-L is that DSB has ordered similar trains.
It's not a bad train per se.
The main problem: It was marketed as ICE 4, but is not an improvement to the much more popular ICE 3.
What the Germans got: A more dense seating layout, slower top speed, less comfortable seats, higher fares compared to IC lines it replaced.
The ICE was simply not planned as a high-speed train. With the ECx project, DB ultimately wanted affordable high-speed trains that did not have to meet the safety standards of a 300 km/h train. For 80% in Germany, this is also sufficient. If the NBS were finally expanded in a sensible way, ICE traffic would have long been a good competitor against the planes. And yes, an ICE3 is better, faster and also more powerful... but the ICE4 is ultimately a replacement or extension for ICE 2 and ICE T. And IC2 Railjets were not wanted at the time because they would have had to be put out to tender again. I understand the criticism, but in the end the ICE is exactly right where it is. The Velaro Novo is coming soon.
Greetings from a railway fan and Siemens employee
Neat stuff though Germany really should invest more in NBS's and making links between NBS's so trains dont have to slow down for every smaller city, whether they stop there or not. Germany is at the crossroads of most long distance rail traffic in Europe, and Germany needs to realise this, and make the neccessary investments. Especially if a greener future with reduced aviation and increase high speed rail travel to compensate is desired.
@@drdewott9154a east-west NBS is really missing apart from joining the existing ones.
It's funny, same story with the ICE-T. It was also planned as a replacement for the classic IC trainsets, but at some point DB decided to use them as ICEs.
Still a mistake to order even more of them.
There are so many 300km/h lines planned that most ICE routes will use at least one of them in the future
@@drdewott9154 We have the same problem with the north/south axis, i.e. Hamburg - Munich - Basel. Here, 4 out of 10 trains are late due to the overload on the routes. In some cases this is so serious that SBB has taken action. Sad fun fact: from 2025, fewer trains will be travelling to Hamburg in order to relieve the Hamburg - Hanover line. Relief on the A7 motorway at 250 km/h is a long time coming because local politicians are campaigning against it. Upgrading the existing route will take 10-15 years, affect many neighbouring residents and is more damaging to the environment.
An NBS or ABS along the A2 motorway exists, at least in part, but we also have major challenges to overcome here in Germany. In the long term, the freight corridor to Poland must be just as efficient as the A2 if we want to get even 50% of lorry traffic on the road. As a German citizen, however, I have the feeling that this is rather undesirable.
The ICE 4 was meant to replace the older Intercity trains, the ICE 1 and ICE 2. It ended up being used mostly for fleet expansion. The ICE3neo I believe is meant to replace some of the older ICE3 sets, but I wouldn't be surprised if that too is used primarily for fleet expansion while the ICE5 (likely the Siemens Velaro Novo) would be used to replace the older trains.
Where did you get the velaro novo information from? As far as I know it will be a completely New developement
It replaced ICE 3 and 1 on my line tho. Big downgrade
Kann auch nicht verstehen was daran so schlecht sein soll. Finde es einen guten Zug, gerade wenn man die Qualität mit anderen europäischen Hochgeschwindigkeitszügen vergleicht, hat man hier ein solides Produkt
Solides Produkt. Aber für mich aus Fahrgastsicht deutlich unbequemer. Hat jetzt aber weniger mit dem Zug an sich zu tun, sondern mehr damit, wie man ihn eingerichtet hat.
Ein ICE 3 hätte man heute sicherlich auch dichter bestuhlt und dünnere Polster genommen.
@@MrMoccachinooSie wurden ja mit der LDV neu bestuhlt mit den neuen Sitzmodellen
Lebe an der Grenze zu Frankreich und im Elsass fahren die Regionalzüge mit Corail wagen die mit ihrem Sitzcomfort jeden ICE und IC in den Schatten stellen.
Es geht deutlich bequemer wenn man will. Aber man will anscheinend nicht.
ICE 4 is not DB's "Flagship". If there is such a thing, then it's the ICE 3 neo. ICE 4 with its Vmax of 265 km/h was never intended to be the flagship.
they are at the same level of cofort and offer exactly the same amenities. the speed difference is just due to the fact that with Germany's denseand evenly distributed population trains under 300kmh are still needed. you could say the flagship is the 380 meters long ice4 because it is used on a lot of high demand rutes
You really left us waiting with the "as well as" at 1:22.
I'm just amazed, that after all these years, they still haven't managed to provide a window for every seat...
Why?
5:04 you were seating in a Cab Car, which is not powered. The ICE4 has a loud acceleration sound when seating on a powered boogie
I haven't noticed that when I've taken other trips on the ICE 4 😁
The ICE 4 isn't terrible, it has its nice features, but it just doesn't live up to the standards of previous trains. It's just saddening to see the comfort and luxury of trains being taken away more and more over the decades, all in the favour of cost cutting.
But this really doesn't have to be the case, I was recently in Japan and they still do have comfortable and window aligned seats everywhere.
I am also upset compartments aren't thing anymore.
The Leipzig Hbf is an amazing Station
Definitely. I just wished that the area in front of the station was more beautifully designed.
Car centric city planning really destroyed that area.
But Leipzig definitely has some great architecture and the station is definitely one of Germanys most beautiful stations.
And with it basically being a huge Mall too you can definitely spend a lot of time in there which makes delays definitely more acceptable.
Here in the U.K. I almost find it comical that the Germans complain about their railways - they are not nearly as bad as here in the U.K. - even the trains in my native Ireland are way better than here in the U.K. where I’ve lived 22 years here in the U.K.
It has become victim of it's own success and also political neglect. The on-time-performance and reliability is one of the worst in Europe. Worse than the UK's.
And being punctual is a considered a virtue in Germany.
Sorry to break it to you but the UK is now way ahead.
The UK has fully ptivatised their rail network, which of course is a disaster but we have many of the same problems neoliberal reforms brought us as well.
i like train
I second this motion. 👍
me2
The reason why the engine doesn't sound loud, is that your car doesn't have engine bougies
The trains aren't criticised really, the tracks & planning are. All 8 travels on rail I did the last year were >5 minutes delayed. I missed 5 of my connecting trains, and one I only got because it was delayed even more than mine first one was. A majority had either failed reservation systems or had the train arriving in a different order than planned. The latter may be a much smaller annoyance, but it shows that the DB doesn't have a working system, as nothing ever goes according to plan, and most of the time that is not the trains themselves causing that. Even the somewhat low top speed of some models, is completely irrelevant, as the tracks usually limit them further down anyway. I haven't seen more than 220 km/h in Germany. I have actually driven faster than that with my car, though usually I'd limit myself to 160 - 170 there. Obviously, there are also limits there sometimes, but the trains never go 220 for the whole way either. But I could live with everything, except the uncertainty of not getting your connecting trains. They have to fix that for >95% of rides for me to ever voluntarily go on rail.
I love the ICE 4's even tho, they aren't as fast as the other ones. But the Ridequality in these Trains is just awesome, its pretty much quiet inside the coaches at 250 km/h
Germans like to winge about their trains! I always had great rail experiences in German and Austria, bar the delays. Trains are frequent, comfortable, they don't require reservations and stations don't have annoying gates and controls. I much prefer that to they way AVE runs in Spain. Also, it is funny to compare this type of review to those overenthusiastic ones about trains in the US.
what trains in the U.S.?
Personally, I like the ICE4 despite the seating comfort. It has relatively smooth and quiet ride quality, lots of storage, bright ambient lighting... But I really DISLIKE the seats, especially the very first version before the padding upgrade, absolutely one of the most uncomfortable high speed train seats I've ever tried, weirdly hard, not ergonomic for me, plus the seat recline and foot space is a joke compared to CN and JP, especially for the expensive first class which they dare to fit the almost same seats as second class, just as disgraceful as those European domestic flights. The current seats are acceptable for me, but nothing outstanding. Overall still a quite good product.
The problem with the seats is that they force your head in an upward/front position. Have you tried comfortably sitting in the 2nd class seats for more than 4 hours?
I dont think ive been in second class for more than 2-3 hours so that i cant tell. But i was fine during those trips :-)
I always love ICE3 and ICE4 trains. They're comfy and they're quiet. Next week I'll take an overnight ICE connection from Munich to Naumburg. (Nighttrains had been taken out of service in Germany many years ago...)
I have two criticisms about the ICE4:
1) The seats are not as good as in some other ICEs. Window alignment is also pretty bad
2) DB sometimes uses them on sprinter services between Cologne and Frankfurt, a track which allows for 300km/h on a long stretch but the ICE4 can only go 265km/h
Both are pretty minor issues though, largely it's perfectly fine (and energy efficient of course).
The newest ICE train is actually the ICE 3 Neo
I think the seat complains were mostly directed towards the second class seats. The first class ones are better of course but not what most people use regularly.
Also being from Leipzig and having grown up with that station made me somewhat loose sense of how gigantic it is. For me it has just always been "the station". It almost looked bigger in your video (even though I watched it on my phone) than I know it to be in real life. 😅
I don't find the second class seats bad either, but didn't find a empty pair to show on this trip. Have traveled in them off camera tho 😁. I use a action camera for my videos, which has a wide angle so it can distort the video a bit
@@Simon-Andersen DB already replaced the seats of a bunch of ICE4 sets with the ICE3neo seats. The original ICE4 seats are definitely too hard for a long train ride. After a few hours you were sliding around on the seat, to find a position you could still sit on.
@@Simon-Andersen the second class seats are fine for an hour or so. Problem is, they had a lot of "ergonomic" cushions that restrained you to one exact position that is perfectly fine for an hour or two, but once you need to shift, there is no other acceptable position. So, riding 3+ hours on an ICE4 was pretty horrible. The seats on newer ICE4 units are better, the ones on the older units are gradually being replaced.
Nice video, hope to see you in Düsseldorf
I have a video coming from Düsseldorf in the future
I like those as well. I find the seats really good and the interior looks much better than the ICE 1 and 2 ones. They look amazing and given the fact that most routes do not require faster units, they are a perfect fit. And yes, you name it, they are suuuuper quiet!
I like it. Smoother ride, quiet, similar seats to the older versions.
while i havent been on the ICE 4, i will say that the major complaint seems to arise from the seating, which seemingly seems less comfortable over the last two decades or so (owing to safety standards, as if this directly prevents making more fire-resistant comfortable seats), and this was noticed in the older ICE sets and InterCity carriages. i've had the opportunity to take a both pre and post refurbished set when i was in Germany and i found the former to be exceptionally comfortable. another complaint would be the fact that it has a lower top speed, but then again i imagine its because its meant to be a replacement to the slower ICE 1 and 2... however i must say that it still looks pretty nice (not outside obviously) and i'd deffo wanna have a go with it once i have the opportunity to return to Germany.
some extra bits: the seats not aligning with the windows might be minor, but then again, its part of the experience to look out of the window while the train is flying thru the hilly bits of Germany that were tunneled and bridged thru with the help of the new high speed railway lines ;) the other thing, it woulda been good to review the second class rather than the first class, as thats what we usually can afford to take, but the seats look very same-y so i guess theres not a massive difference there either. i do like the soundproofing which is necessary on modern trains, but i guess if you're near a traction motor you can still faintly hear it.
I think it's more like bad marketing as DB rebrands every long distance train in Germany as an ICE train. In the beginning, the ICE brand only was used for high-speed material on high-speed rails (or at least for a huge part of the journey, as cities like Hamburg or Bremen or even Munich in the early 1990s were not connected to the high speed network). When the popular mid distance InterRegio (IR) was discontinued in the early 2000s, many of it's remaning lines have been rebranded to InterCitys (IC).
And now comes the ICE 4:
The trainsets were meant to replace ageing conventional InterCity material on the usual InterCity routes like ie Hamburg-Cologne or what has been left on the Rhine-Valley. This is *not* a high speed line.
And the IC 2:
These new trains operate in speeds up to 160 km/h - this is what was usual for the old IR destinations.
I think, if DB just had marketed the ICE 4 as a new InterCity and re-introduced the old IR label for those IC 2 trains, no one would have copmplained about it. They both are good trains for what they were planned for - but using those quality labels for these trains rose expections.
It's not only about marketing. They can also charge higher fares when trains are branded as ICE.
I do prefer the ICE3 Neo over the Ice 4 but they by no means bad trains; iassume people just thought they be nicer than the ice1&2 which they mostly replaced and yes the odler ones had great space and ncie seating but the newer ones are mostly the same with maybe a bit less foot space
The seats on the old ICE trains must have been unbelievably comfortable if they are better than what was shown in this video of the ICE 4 especially when the old seats would have already been worn down through years of use. The new leather seats look nice and well-padded.
personally, I love the ICE 4.
It looks beautiful and it is very comfy and has a nice interior. I'd kinda love it to have a bit more wood details like the ICE 3 and for it to also be able to drive to Amsterdam (since it's very long and has a top speed of 265km/h it is perfect to go to the Netherlands)
and iirc the top speed of all ICE 4's was 250km/h but they're all being upgraded to go 265km/h
Did you also test the noise level in the power cars? I think the one you were in doesnt have any motors
I've traveled on the ICE4 a few times, haven't noticed it being significantly worse in the cars with the powered bogies, but there is a bit more noise during acceleration there
I love how clean these trains are (regarding design and cleanliness). Nothing more discusting than dirty trains.
Simon, i totally agree with you. An ICE 3 is a little bit better, but the ICE 4 is also very good.
I remember the first ICE4s i rode in second class had poor leg space (I'm 1,90m) and relatively hard seats, no foot rest, and basically no recline. The interior looked cheap the lighting was too bright and too cold. AFAIK started to upgrade the seating and interior shortly after. I don't know how it is today. The last couple of years I didn't ride ICE4.
I dont think there is any big issues with the interior in the ICE4's ive been on. But i never tried one with the original seats.
The lighting is supposed to be like that. It's cool and bright in the morning, neutral during the day and warm and dimmed in the evening
ICE4 is super comfy in my opinion. Its very steady on the track and as you mentioned its very quiet. I also dont agree with many others on the seats, i think theyre quite comfortable.
Die Züge selbst sind doch nicht schlecht, das Problem ist doch, dass sie regelmäßig zu spät sind und man sich nicht auf sie verlassen kann. Die Bahn macht vieles richtig, außer halt das, was Priorität 1 haben sollte: Die Zuverlässigkeit.
Recht hast du schon, aber die Pünktlichkeit ist ja ein ganz anderer Punkt. Es geht in dem Video um den Zug selbst und was die Leute (anscheinend) nicht mögen.
Für die runtergewirtschaftete Infrastruktur kann der Zug nichts.
Very nice
The seats in 1st class ICE4 are ok for me the first 2 hours, after 3 hours they are a pain in the butt, literally!
Sorry, but that is the old ICE 4. ICE 5 is already ordered and in production: The Velaro Novo
No it's not, the tender is still in progress. If anything you could argue the ICE3neo is as mentioned in the video 😊
Can anyone explain why certain ICE trains are still built with a maximum speed of less than 300 kph which is the line speed on most of the more recent HSLs? This means increased operational and capacity problems if these trains run on the 300 kph lines.
I think most of the 300 capable lines still see service mostly with the higher speed ICE variants. The ICE4 has also replaced significant amounts of IC like services where 265 is plenty
I think most of the 300 capable lines still see service mostly with the higher speed ICE variants. The ICE4 has also replaced significant amounts of IC like services where 265 is plenty
@@Simon-Andersen Only this is not the case. They operate between frankfurt and cologne frequently causing delays and db even had to drop a stop to maintain the travel time.
But did you ever get your currywurst?
On another train a few days later yes 😍
@@Simon-Andersen50% seats facing backward
AWFUL AWFUL TRAINS
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
I often using those trains, and i love the ICE4
You said the 2. Class seats looked similar. But were they similar? It could be the 2. Class sets they are complaining about. It probably is.
Yeah, it was the 2nd class that got the complaints. As far as I konow it was so bad that they actually replaced the seats.
@@Frankfurtdabezzzt So the seats, Simon saw on 2nd class, could be new?
The first batch of them had some seats that were eventually replace, which I've never tried. The new second class seats are no worse than what's found on other new European high speed trains. I've had no issues with them on other ICE4 trips 😁
@@Simon-Andersen a few days ago I took a trip on an ICE-T, and the seats were really uncomfortable. No idea if they changed the seats there, too or if different types exist, but the ICE-T I was on in summer did not have these awful seats.
the BR 401 is much beter and faster and that for a 30y older train
Ugh subway. What an American abomination 🤢 I can't remember when was the last time I had a Subway but I can remember it wasn't a good experience 😂
Thanks for the detailed and very entertaining video as always ❤
Well, I only can compare the ICEs with long-distance trains in Austria, Switzerland, France and Spain. But compared to them, they are the best trains. The seats are more comfortable, they usually are cleaner (from the inside, not outside). Also they have the best information screens. And probably no German will believe this, but in my experience they have the beste wifi coverage, too.
They big problem is the reliability, but that's not a problem of trains itself rather of bad maintenance.
Cool, is good to see full trains again 👍
Said nobody. Ever.
Please make some videos on Indian railways 😊😊
I would love to travel there in the future :D
You must be crazy thinking overcrowed german autobahn is better choice..it is not and if you can count neither speed nor costs can come as close to bahn prices. People should think these days a little bit more environmental friendly. Car is not a choice anymore for long distances.
Håber da du vasker hænderne ordenligt efter toilet besøget?
Haha, ja! Men det er ikke en særlig god video hvis jeg lod 2 mins optagelse af mig der vasker hænder være i videoen 😆
You can't tell me as a BahnCard 100 holder, or any passenger for that matter, that these are good enough, because they aren't.
Other trains and other countries like Japan, which I recently visited, absolutely prove to me they can easily be better.
I pay over 4000€ for my ticket and a lot of taxes, I absolutely do feel entitled to a better train seats and better train service.
I was in Japan recently. You pay significantly more for train tickets on their high speed network there as there is no sparpreis. 2+3 seating will always be inferior to 2+2. DB has reliability problems sure, but once you try rattling on a Spanish talgo high speed train or wait 6 hours between train departures on the French TGV network because the next 2 trains are Ouigo, you'll realize that the ICE4 and DB really isn't that bad.
@@Simon-Andersen I understand that DB operates as a profit oriented company, but that is the unacceptable problem to me. I want a German state railway back, only then can it be reliable, comfortable and fast. DB just fundamentally sucks since the railway reform, you can't provide a great service to everyone if you above all care about when in the end is money.
2+3 seating on Shinkasen isn't amazing indeed, but the upgrades to green class/2+2 or grand class/2+1 aren't very expensive, nonetheless the pricing among other things is an issue in Japan, which they can solve by nationalising their railways as well.
The ICE 4 also isn't terrible, it's fine but just disappointing and the seating is a special annoyance to me, because DB tends to send the ICE 4 on it's night services in my experience.
The ICE 4 is way better than the classic ICE 3 (not Neo).
ist nur nicht der Neuste✌️
50% seats facing backward
AWFUL AWFUL TRAINS
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
ICE3neo is superior 😉
I do need to try that one day :D
Of all the ICEs, this is probably the ugliest.
Why is train covered in graffiti?
I have no idea, maybe it was done in Zurich overnight away from DBs maintence facility.
German trains are good af, its our rail network that's absolute dogshit
The ICE4 is far from "new", there has been a whole new ICE since then, the ICE3 neo, the 4 has for a long time been the sad reality for us.
The main issue with the ICE4 is that it's slower, less comfortable, way uglier (both the nose and NO ROUND WINDOWS), and in every way a downgrade the the iconic ICE3, other than that it's cheaper, and they can stop at more villages who's mayor was too overambitious and thought an ICE station would make their hillbilly town relevant.
And the IC2, yeah sorry, you can't just slap a new coat of paint on old regio trains and expect people to be proud of having that called "long distance travel".
You have not seen China latest high speed train. Pased German train by 10 years.