Chocoboy 😂 I hope you don’t mean snappy in a bad way. I was definitely not trying to be mean. I was agreeing. But yeah, I have actually 0 life, so I really do be responding 😳
My friend got to the "Hurt buddy/kill your party" choice. He sat there for 15 mins. He did not say a word. He made his peace and his choice, saved, and demanded to play literally anything else. He only finished weeks later.
I ended up doing the same thing LMAOOOOO i played The Painful, waited two weeks to pick up The Joyful... Only to get stuck at "leave them/join them" and have a breakdown
That choice specifically was easy mainly for two reasons. 1 I save scummed the SHIT out of the game(hey I earned the privilege I played the game completely blind while in pain mode and no Joy) and the way I was playing brad was a REALLLLLLL shit head of a person. My brad was the type of guy to willingly nuke the entire world if it means nobody lay's a finger on his desire(buddy in this case), so I kinda had to slaughter my entire party on the grounds of roleplay😂. It was very jarring having the game literally call me out on being a dick by earning the "Selfish" trophy(which btw it's the least earned trophy out of the 3, that's some humanity restoring elixir for ya) and then have buzzo actively call me sick for even considering the life of 3 men amount to a flesh wound. What an absolute masterpiece of a game, I'd have gotten the number one spot on my personal GOTY if it wasn't for that drunken disco maniac called Harry du Bois and his antics on philosophy. It may take a decade but eventually Disco Elysium will get the attention it absolutely deserves. So for now the painful sits as my seconds favorite game of all time, solid.
So, with the whole player narrative thing, I remember when I sat down with my friend to play through the game, she lost two people to the russian roulette event until Rage Ironhead managed to beat the third guy thats necessary to defeat until you can move on. Rage wasn't really being used in the party, so she decided to keep using Rage and see how far he could go. And then Rage just kept winning. He just stormed through the goddamn Russian Roulette winning every round. Rage became a hype machine, and the somewhat forgettable character became, in this one game, a supreme legend. Then we got to the final round, and the final opponent shot himself, but SURVIVED. And then, when the round kept going, Rage finally bit the bullet. Next round, Olan was used and we beat the last guy, but the memory of Rage Ironhead would live on. Never forget, Rage Ironhead. The Luchadore who single-handedly broke the LISA Economy.
I ended up letting Buzzo kill Fardy, Rooster and Percy early on, and I thought “Godammit I have to sacrifice more people?! I just got three of them killed!” Then Terry ended up soloing the three Russian Roulette rounds. Damn shame he got his head bit off by a Joy Mutant…
i cried, the only time i did on the three games, you can clearly see the mirror of the VHS in Lisa:the first, and how Martyn is reflected on Brad, the mistakes he did to try to overcome Martyn and ending traveling a broken path, better than his father, but just as human and wrong, and that is something that made my cry.
Sardonicus Same, I felt like all my companions like Beastborn, Nern, Olan, Ajeet, Harvey, Terry, and Bug Guy were all going to team up with me and defeat Randos army in one last battle. I started to tear up when Harvey, the last guy alive started to cry.
Man I'm glad I finally got around to watching this in full. Absolutely fantastic breakdown of the series. I wish my big dumb brain was able to conjure insight and deconstruction half this smart.
I go to NitroRad to see how fun a game is and how good of a “game” it is, and Hbomberguy for how good the writing and how good an “experience” it is. Love you both
There's something that HBomb didn't point out that I think is a HUGE part of what make Painful great and different that other RPG's. When he said that there's a finite amount of mags and you will need to be smart and choose what you buy wisely, that's not entirely true. It becomes so obvious that in most RPG's you just have a TON of money, so you can just load up on whatever you see in a store. When playing LISA, you don't have that luxury: when you need weapons, you'll be selling everything you don't think you'll need and picking characters to upgrade and which to decide will stay weaker because the weps can be so expensive (looking at you, Queen Bands...). But you can have that ton-of-money experience where you can just buy everything, but there's only one way to get that many mags: Russian Roulette. You can make a KILLING playing RR. The mags increase by 50 when you win a game (you first make 100, then 150, then 200, up to 450, I believe) and they stack, easily giving you 2,000+ mags if you make it to the end, giving you all you need to buy everything. But, obviously, that comes at a price. If you want that wealthy experience where you can buy things without thinking, you have to risk all your friends. You WILL lose party members. When going for it, expect to lose 5 or 6 of them. And while you're rolling in mags and you get Buckets to join, you now have less friends, and if you lose them to perma-killers, suddenly you're alone or surrounded by low level members... was it worth that risk? It's just a great acknowledgement of how much money you have in most RPG's. That ability to just have everything and stock up on healing items before a big fight does exist in Painful. But you may lose your party in the process. So most players will choose to spend wisely and scrounge around mags instead of potentially losing their friends. Such a genius way to handle currency.
For real tho. I like the analysis, and the addendums to it that the replies offer. It would have been a good addition, and perhaps hbomb could have addressed it better. He seems to have noticed it based on what he says about resources early in the video, maybe not, but maybe it just got cut in editing?
No one talks about the design of save scumming in that part, you can either save EVERY time you win and reload every time you loose, or just kinda, try a few times, win 2/3 times... because the trip from and to the save point is so boring, it's intentionally discouraging you from save scumming so you take more risks even when you do that, making you bargain with the game itself. How do you even think to design around something like that??
Also - I was hoping you'd touch on the "Flash" mechanic in Joyful. It's absolutely one of those topics that's hard to talk about with people, since it is certainly unsettling, but storywise it felt like it made a lot of sense. Buddy was taught to fight dirty and use whatever tricks she could to survive. Considering the number of enemies that will outright try to feel you up/molest you, it seemed a sadly appropriate move to have that also linked the story to the gameplay.
notsusan keep in mind in painful you have the option to have buzzo cut off buddy's nipple. So there is a 50% chance she's using a mutilated chest. In other words, the world of Lisa is so girl deprived even a mutilated breast is a big deal
I think that was meant to highlight the behavior that men often do when they feel disrespected or bested by a woman - their first instinct is to insult their looks, even when it's their dying words. That's the impression I got, anyway.
i realize this is a four year old comment but i finally played these games and came back to re-watch the video with all the added context, and i am actually so glad he didn't talk about it. because when i leveled up in joyful, saw that i learned a new move, and went to see what it did, my heart literally sank. it was, probably, the most disturbing moment i experienced across both painful and joyful. because you're right-- it makes sense. it makes all the sense it the world, and yet, it puts you, the player, in control of adding to even more of buddy's trauma. because you get that skill /after/ you've been playing the game a little, the first time you use the move is the first time buddy thinks to do that to survive. just wrestling with that was completely devastating, personally. and i never used the move once. but i did have to stare at it every single fight, as an analog for buddy knowing, in the back of her mind, that it is always an option-- always a new way to sink lower into personal horror.
The scene where brad is only one at lisa's funeral brought me to a waterfall of tears. Not becuase im a little bitch (i am) but because the game's writing and visual story-telling is so on point and grounded. This is one of the best stories ever told if not the best.
"I hope you're watching this at night. If you watching this in the morning you might just have a really sad day. It's not really a morning thing" Ideal warning placement right at the end of the patreon credits.
I'm glad other people think like this. During the day, if I watched something like this, I'd be fine. I'm watching this extremely early in the morning and actually got entertained AND disturbed which is pretty rare for me.
In an interview Austin Jorgensen once said that the story if Lisa was inspired by his ex-girlfriend. Without going into too much details, he explains that she had a fucked up upbringing with her father that she could never quite get over and he said that it affected their relationship is a really bad way. He wanted to do whatever her could to help or "fix" her but he failed to do so and the relationship ended. So the character of Brad can definitely be seen as an extension of himself as a protector and may have also been a conduit for personal reflection. This is speculative since he hasn't directly said this but much in the same way that Buddy doesn't want Brad controlling her life, its possible Austin's relationship ended because he was trying to fix a problem that wasn't his to fix? I don't want to make too many public assumptions beyond my own private interpretations but I highly respect his level of humility by pouring himself into this game. I mostly wanted to bring up the backstory on the creation of Lisa because I think it provides a different perspective for the next time someone plays it, looking at some of the characters, decisions, and story beats as metaphorical and allegorical to a real life experience from the creator.
Lisa: The First Lisa: The Painful Lisa: The Joyful The names of the games are amazing and really bring home the idea of causality, despite the fact Lisa herself is not in Painful or Joyful she is arguably the impetus for the events of both games
I thought the ending for Joyful was legitimately brilliant because of the way it was framed - Sure you had the deus ex potion that cured you of your illness, but the game positions the question in a way that asks you "do you really want to take it?" Taking the potion discards the comforting delusions and "joy' you receive from those delusions. By taking the potion, you're essentially leaving Brad and Rando behind, and at that point in the plot, she realized how much she truly valued her memories of them. But the game respects the player's intelligence to make the right decision - To be stuck in the past and comforting yourself in your idealized delusions only leads to disaster. The better for Buddy is achieved by suppressing that joy and assuming your own personal responsibilities to better herself. The easy way is to avoid personal responsibility and not take the potion, the harder way was to take it and face the hardships that's to come with grace. I think it's important to note that Buddy's delusions were more gleeful than Brad's. Whereas Brad was hunted by drug usage, Buddy was embellished by it.
Was really pathetic seeing MattPatt unable to absorbed and appreciate Lisa. Instead that stream was filled with "that reminds me of undertale", "hahaha thats a funny joke" and "Im putting a content warning". He attempted to please his audience by saying that he liked it and appreciated it but failed to thoroughly experience Lisa. You could feel Matt trying to attach undertale to Lisa during his play through, that was painful. I'm sure he was just joyful with the thought of Lisa Theory Episode 55 but thats not Lisa. I would've preferred that he just said he didn't like it and leave it at that rather than pretending he was invested in it. But hey thats just a rant, a pointless rant.
I think the main issue is that he got recommendations for it on an individual level but had built his online persona as family friendly and couldn't find a way to appropriately present his playthrough publically. He jumped into the game without warnings on how it may not be a casual thing to show his viewers. If he had played it in private and then discussed it in a theory video after the fact, he would have given better respect to the creative genius of Lisa, even with all of its brutal themes.
Well Undertale *_IS_* better. This game is MEGA depressing Buddy is a murderer You kill your own team mates who won't fight back etc And idk a thing about this game.
CtOnEdge SAME. Also, King_ Dimension, I don't think that games that are "depressing" "sad" etc. should be considered bad/low games just because of that factor. (I personally quite love many types of games like that but it also depends...) But, hey, I see that everyone has their own tastes and opinions, however, it would be nice if you did that without stating it as a fact...maybe you should check out the game first? Even if you don't like it, c'mon no need to start triggering hate here...those kind of comments may trigger hate. Anyways, yeah, it's all about opinions, interpretations and stuff (without shitting over other games) that matters. That's one of the most kind things to do when reviewing a game. (and understanding the game's message is very nice too) ...sorry, rant over.
Yare Yare Daze It adds to the story experience tremendously and puts value on what you have and what you can lose. Not for everyone, but very en..joyable.
It really hits me after watching both this and the Pathologic video how *little* hbomb says about the plots of these games. On the one hand it's masterful to be able to speak at such length and give away so little, but on the other hand it's a bugger because I don't think I could put myself through any of it to find out and yet I desperately want to know the stories in detail.
The creators of this game made an amazing hack for this in the definitive edition (and maybe the normal version too, idk)!!! At the very beginning, there's a pill Terry offers you to make the game effortlessly easy- the only thing you lose is "pride" (according to the game lol). I think its for players who just want to experience the plot and have fun instead of stressing out and grinding
@@jenkinsjrjenkins More games should do that! I enjoy the challenge in most story-rich games the first time, but after that I'm pooped and just want to do the story again.
I feel like hes not looking at the bigger picture. This isnt buddy's story, not Brad's or buzzo or anyone. This story is what happened to Lisa and how it affected everyone How it hurt brad and buzzo and rando and hurt buddy in the end that shaped who they were and what they did. This story isnt in individual pieces, this is one big sad monster.
Even though I’m commenting on this several years after this comment I think the point he is trying to make is that part of what makes the story of these games interesting is the personal story of Brad and Buddy. While the overall story is about how Lisa’s death impacts the Lisa universe, the reason the story becomes so interesting is how it focuses so much on the perspective of Brad and Buddy. The personal story of these two ends of making an already decently interesting story all the more relatable and intriguing. The personal stories of Brad really make him a much more interesting character than most silent protagonists of similar sorts of games. It also helps that the game manages to drag the player into these sorts of experiences
SageOfTheWest in terms of music theory, it’s a mess. Nothing is really consistent, it’s loud and can be obnoxious, and it’s absolutely packed to almost bursting. But they’re GOOD.
It fits perfectly within the game's situations but outside of it, it can be jarring to hear. Expect many stares when listening to "666 Kill Chop Deluxe" in public, without headphones
As someone who avoided the Lisa games for anxiety reasons, I love and appreciate this video for the chance it gave me to really appreciate the games and understand what made them so good.
Simply quit being a victim. I've suffered through abuse. You know what I did to deal with it? I manned the fuck up and realized that in order to move forward you gotta let go of the past. @@sharkofjoy
Come on, I bet true fans of game theory know that Matt makes it always "his way", I believe that is actually why he has so many fans - because they look forward to seeing what kind of mind-blowing mind-fuck he came up with this time..
Yeah, I don't really care either, not a FAN though, but I mean, Mat does it for fun and expression, not precisely for your personal amusement, just like this guy, who, hopefully as a joke, talks about being a weirdo that reads too much into thing, when pretty much all his analysis are twice or thrice as long as a GT normal video (this one is 40 minutes, for god's sake). He can say whatever he wants, I still enjoyed his video, just as I enjoy matpat's rants about Mario's height, FNAF and Undertale, even if he doesn't like it.
Fllinn gaming yeah, I agree they have dirty tricks many times, and that their content isn't the most originl half of the time, but theories aren't actually anyone's property, they're just that, if that wasn't the case, why didn't he/she report this? It's an easy win for that guy. What if I told you someone else already thought about all of this in the video and posted it on another webpage? By the way, how many theories were "copied"? Because many people can arrive to the same conclusión since this is the same material we're talking about, it's not like it's plain imposible to think the same about many things, a great example was yume nikki, or the game inspired by that one .flow, in which there is room for creativity and theorizing, but everything along certain logical parameters, accepted by pretty much all the theorists, which are, taking my example: she killed someone, she's transexual, she's mentaly and phisically sick, she's pregnant, she was raped by someone close, etc (in other words, something bad must have happened). It's pretty much useless to try and come up with something totally new, since evryone thinks, not just you, plus it would be too much of a hassle to search every fórum and webpage on the internet, just to make sure you're not copying something from someone that may not even care. Nevertheless, you're right, is you found it, and it has someone's name on it, you must give credit, if it's a case like the one you're mentioning, but even then, if you're just picking up some of the opinions of the internet, that many people think of, it's already no one's.
I insist, that's a way too convenient of an argument, it's like the people that argument that aliens exist because they've seen an alien before, even if it's very detailed and you're a very trustworthy person, a personal experience isn't enough, especially because, again, there are billions of people in the world, they are bound to think of similar things, not the exact same, but similar things. Perhaps Matt found that specific commentary and expanded it, who knows, but that doesn't mean he stole it, because then, pretty much every analysis and theory about a videogame would be stolen, including this one, which was made of many thoughts many people had before, even I imagined one or two things before this video was even on this guy's head, and many people on the steam community and reddit thought about it too, like those feelings that he describes about caring about the ítems or characters you may/may not lose.
Two things: One, Jorgensen stated that all fangames/comics/stories/etc. are all canon. He said all of LISA is fiction, why is anyone else's fiction any better or worse, so it's all faction, so it's all canon. I just think his idea there is neat. Two... LISA the First was inspired by a true story... Which, once you learn that, makes the experience of playing it gut-wrenching.
oh my god. I wanted to watch this videos like 2 years ago, stopped at the spoiler warning to play it, bought lisa the painful, forgot about it and now after picking it back up again, i finish it to finally come back to this video.. and now i'll also have to play lisa the joyful.. I cant take any more of this.. see you in a few years i guess
I really liked the format and the analyisis, though I am a bit disappointed that you didn't really touch on how the game actually offers an alternative to Brad and Lisa's cycle of violence in the form of Rando. I liked that the skull-mask wearing, army leading warlord, who you run into several times ultimately turns out to be the last decent person in the world, even though it can be argued that he had it even worse than Brad.
Well yeah he didn't mention many other crucial things either. I suspect that the things he DID talk about were deliberately picked to be just enough to entice potential new players to experience this on their own, spoiler warning and all.
In a way, I'm reminded of Harpo from The Color Purple as he's, at first, the first boy in the book to seem able to escape the situation of continuous misogynistic violence all characters are trapped in.
It's a reference to The Room. It was a meme for a while, sometime early this year/maybe late last year I think. The joke's only correlation to the game is the name in the quote
God, the moment at the end of joyful where the “he’s my dad” track jumps in had me legit crying. Didn’t realize until then that video games, this medium so inextricably tied to the simpler joys of my youth, could elicit such powerful, complicated emotions. Then Disco Elysium came out and proceeded to powerbomb my heart. Both very excellent games about washed up bearded alcoholics who have destroyed their lives in response to traumatic events. Just need one more similar game to call it a genre…
Three years ago I watched the first few minutes of this video. I heeded the spoiler warning and clicked off. I put the Lisa games off for years for a multitude of different reasons, but I finally got back to them. I just beat Joyful today. And now I'm finally ready to watch this.
i agree with you on all points. but i honestly expected you to express the sadness and feeling of helplessness you get in the 2 first games and the liberation in the last one. maybe victims of childhood abuse feel those stronger than other people. i found these games very empowering but also reminded me of a lot of bad things, and how the bad things felt.
I was kind of hoping for the same. It seems from some of the comments I hear about Joyful that the liberation point doesn't seem to get through so well to a lot of people, but i felt the same way when Buddy showed up with the trumpet.
I tried getting into LISA: THE PAINFUL and while I respect its artistic value, the unrelenting oppressiveness of its themes was just too much for me and I didn't get far before I gave up. But I'm glad that it's inspired thoughtful critique like this and influenced people to make art of their own.
I'm with you. Personally I feel like I'm too much of an emotional wreck to even try a Lisa game so I plan not to. But I won't slag it off either cause it is visually and mechanically well done.
This is absolutely fascinating to me, but also had the probably unintended effect of ensuring I never play this series. But as someone who struggles with personal trauma, I'm very glad it exists even if it didn't exactly stick the landing.
I know this comment is like 2-3 years old so idk if you have or not, but you should definetly play the game and form your own opinions of the stuff happening and the ending ykno from different perspectives it has different meanings
@@stenhansenmaling1281 games like these can be good but very triggering for people with mental illness and trauma, simply put... sometimes it hits too close to home
@@stenhansenmaling1281 Nobody needs to re-expose themselves to potential trauma just for experience. Theres a lot of potential damage to be done by encouraging people to expose themselves to things that can be extremely upsetting. Different perspectives, like you say, can include being far more traumatizing than you imagine.
I remember playing _LISA: The Painful RPG_ back when it came out in late 2014, and to this day I'm blown away by the fact that an RPG Maker game made by one guy is one of the most (forgive me for this) "cinematic" experiences I've seen in gaming - and more over, it's one of the most gorgeous game stories I've played through since _Silent Hill 2_. Austin Jorgensen proves that the auteur can be (and often is) far more compelling than any big-budgeted studio production. By the way: great video, Hbomberguy. I'm really excited for the potential _Night in the Woods_ video. It's one of my favorite games of this year.
Nick V. Have you played the corpse party games in the past? I think you'd enjoy them. They're a handful of gamemaker games. The story is interesting, with some genuinely scary moments, despite the games being laughably cheap looking. At first glance they look like generic gamemaker games, but the story really sells it. It is by no means perfect. It is fairly clunky to control and navigate admittedly and some of the content is downright oddly designed. But it's still worth playing IMO, watching someone else play it, is a great disservice to the game. A lot of the mood isn't conveyed when you're just watching.
I'm thrilled that someone actually understands and appreciates this game for what it is and not for how similar it is to Undertale (Game Theory), which, by the way, is a completely different game --combat, narrative, mechanics. LISA presented a grim, bleak, and gruesome narrative that enthralled me unlike any other game I played. Brad is one of the few video game characters that I think about a lot. Not because he's heroic or bold, but because he is flawed. He possess flaws that are relatable. Depending on your choices, he can be viewed as self-sacrificing or negligent. Even the choices where Brad's character overrides the player's choice, demonstrate excellent characterization. With games like Earthbound, Undertale, and Yume Nikki that have inspired a whole ream of game creators, I hope LISA enters that group as a game that challenged players with it's strong, evocative narrative that cleverly tie in with its gameplay. Anyway, wonderful analysis. You voiced the good and the bad very well and I have to agree that The Joyful had its flaws. LISA has had a massive impact on me as a gamer and an individual. I haven't quite seen many people tackle this game as hard and as thoughtfully as you did. Cheers!
LISA and Undertale are cut from the same vine, so to speak. They’re part of a special subgenre, much like roguelike and anime fighter are. They all have common sources of inspiration that can be seen in their work.
How can someone even compare this to Undertale when LISA came out 1 year before Undertale? Are there people saying that this came copied Undertale just because Undertale is the more popular game without realizing LISA came out first?
Pixelated games with good characters = Undertale. Or at least thats what people like Mister Matt trying to tell us. Problem is, said game was on the top for so long that it got permanently scarred itself into our brain, much like Dark Souls. Everything that is slightly similar to it can and will remind us of it. Like some bad addiction.
I don't think the final choice is about her getting over her issues. The way I saw it, she was becoming more and more unhinged as time went on. She became more and more violent, fighting through extreme pain and hopped up on Joy with the ideal of ruling and freedom running rampant in her mind. That final choice? It's either her becoming a true queen, or realizing that she's been losing herself. That in no way would make her fixed of her utterly ruinous life, but it would be akin to sitting on the edge of your futon with a loaded gun in your lap. You want to do it, you need to do it, it's the good thing to do, it's the RIGHT thing to do, you should do it, everyone wants you to do it because it'll make it better for them, do it do it do it... but... what if you don't? What if... maybe it would be better to not? And from there, she either pulls the proverbial trigger and spends the rest of her existence as the ultimate queen with the corpses of the two men who meant the most to her, or she just tries to live with herself. Who knows what she would be like as an adult, or what crisis she underwent to end up with a child. But that's not for us to know. What matters is if she lets the madness and overwhelming urge to be free (which Joy boosts) control her enough, or if she can more or less snap out of it.
Hbomberguy:they should run our school system. Every guy that fail in a test have to chose to 1 lose your arm 2 lose your lunch money 3 get your best friend kiddnaped
Glad someone open-minded and thoughtful behind analyzing games is covering this overlooked classic. As I described it in my review, "If Earthbound was a love-letter to childhood, then LISA is your childhood getting curb-stomped to a world laughing at you."
LISA is genuinely one of the greatest video game experiences I've ever had, and despite my love for the series, I must say I'm glad you managed to put into words what I felt were some of the issues with Joyful. My best friend and I, sometime last year I believe, watched some non-commentary longplays of the games together after I constantly yappered to him about how great the games were and how I wanted to share the experience. I remember when we were going through Joyful, we both concluded at different points that the game clearly was made to "tie everything up", and mostly just that. And don't get me wrong, I loved learning about the world of Olathe (the Joy Mutants are absolutely fascinating to me) and getting that 'conclusion' to just what the hell was going on and who did it was satisfying to have for the sake of closure (like I especially loved how the source behind it all, Dr. Yado, was actually around all the time during Painful but constantly _just_ hidden out of sight (he even became a bit of a joke for my friend as "Disapproving Trumpet Man" when we finished Painful and I showed him the easter eggs) ), but it's true that Joyful does get kind of 'distracted' or 'sidetracked' trying to get that lore out there. Buddy never really _had_ to confront Yado, he already established his kingdom of slaved flesh piles and was satisfied as the ultimate antagonist probably, but it was there because without it we'd still be speculating on what even happened. And it felt kinda weirdly tacked on. Not to mention how stupidly easy the final boss fights are (The battle against Berny lasts only like 30 seconds but has an amazing track that goes all kinds of deranged after like 2 and a half minutes and just sasfhaghf), which also resurfaces the critique about how Joyful's battle system isn't as engaging as Painful's (Dingaling could've given Berny just a million health but what would you even be doing all that time besides mindlessly getting hits in?). Still, in the end I loved both games. I loved the characters, I love the world surrounding them and I loved how absolutely grim and daunting (in a terrifying, adult-fear way) the story and situations got. You especially nailed the part of the gameplay of Painful being somewhat paranoid with danger being everywhere and resources being strict and limited (I really wish you would've mentioned Crack Ripper's ambush though!! That bit of the game is exemplifies just how punishing it can be if you choose to just sniff around willy nilly treating the game like a toy you explore around and which bears no consequence to your decisions). Excellent analysis. Thanks for make, Mr. Bomberguy
This is game important because its one of the few I know of that addresses complex trauma.I think that's why lisa the joyful is the way it is. The creator knew that trauma victims would play this and would like a shot at a happy ending, albeit a superficial one. My one gripe with the gameplay is that you have to either look up most of the character information or listen to the soundtrack. The characterizations are actually quite well developed and I would have never known, and it makes the devasting choices everyone has to deal with even more devastating when you know exactly what theyre thinking.
I just really have to thank the Undertale fandom; if it wasn't for them, I don't think I ever would have known LISA existed. I may never have gotten such a wonderfully unique experience as I did with this trilogy.
I don’t think I really realized how much of a villain Brad was. I always thought of him as a well meaning guy with love to give and never really grappled with how entitled he felt to Buddy’s life.
lisa made me feel a really heavy profound sense of sadness seeing how abuse, addiction and trauma affects people and the morality of the game also made me feel just rlly heavy. it’s a tragic sort of thing. additionally, the issues and demons it tackles are incredibly real for a game taking place in an apocalyptic future making the pain just hit that much harder
Brad reminds me of one of my ancestors. I believe they lost their former family to the Holocaust and one of my grandparents were his "second chance", just like Buddy. If it weren't for their hope to redeem themselves, perhaps I would not have been born...
I love hearing people analyse and discuss the themes of video games they love, even if it's games that I've never played or ever will play. So...i'd never say no to more of this sort of content.
Someone really needs to do an in-depth story analysis and discussion on the Lisa series mythos and whatnot. The plot to these games is there, it's really strong, and it's almost ALL implied. But, as implications go, Lisa's implications are both incredibly dark and incredibly... thought-provoking. Weird way to put it, but the game does sorta make you think.
Honestly I found the last choice of Lisa the Joyful compelling, because while becoming a monster is a source of horror when you're following Brad, if you're a girl and faced with the prospect of being forced to continue humanity, when you don't want to? Becoming a monster to escape that fate would feel like a freeing choice. To me it felt like both choices, take the vaccine or become a monster, were bad endings for Buddy. It's still something I think about as a very good moment of dread. Buddy after her journey of killing, forced to choose between body horror and body horror
So watching this video reminded me that I played Lisa before I realised certain things about my family and I am now watching this video after realising said things, thank you very much for this video.
Sounds very interesting, and I love the analysis. Didn't pause the video as I currently have no time to play these kinds of video games, and actually I'd willingly have a thoughtful person "spoil" them for me rather than not even hearing from them.
i'm not sold on this analysis of buddy and her game. i loved joyful because of how callous buddy was, how bleakly nihilistic her killing spree became. not interested in friends, so no party besides ya boi rando. i'm not sure how you can talk about the limited or false choices that brad gets in painful express the character well but ignore the same application of this concept to buddy. her worldview is obviously much, much different, and it's shown wonderfully in the gameplay. it sounds to me like you just wanted lisa painful: 2 instead of lisa joyful, and that's fine. but they're separate games, and the distinctions between the games are what makes me love them so much as their own narratives, each inseparably and grotesquely paired to the other. and this is probably because each game is supposed to be VERY steeped in its own protagonist, who are each stubbornly themselves. it would seem as though the joyful is actively trying to cut itself (katanas!!!) from the narrative of painful, but it wouldn't make too much sense if you did. and that's okay. this is the way human history builds/breaks, and people can choose to ignore sections they don't like, even within your own family. i found it twisted and hilarious how she kind of just waltzes into the greater backstory at the end because that's what happens when you cut away the fat of the land. also, i feel like you really glossed over the distinct endings that joyful provides us, and how these distinctions are nicely contrasted with the subtle differences in painfuls endings. it just shows how ultimately buddy gets more agency than brad was ever allowed because....she was different? younger? stronger? got away from a toxic household before it was too late? did DRUGS?! i think that what i like best about joyful is that it allows the player to reach the potential 'sweet happy ending', contextually anyway, but it does nothing to quell my anxiety about these unanswered questions. thanks for the video!
Agreed that Joyful needs more love. When comparing the two sequels, Painful seem driven by Brad's Joy-driven desire to protect Buddy no matter who he kills, and Joyful seems driven by Buddy's Joy-driven desire for utter freedom by controlling everyone else. That naturally makes for two different games and thematic approaches. Also, I'd argue that Joyful's inclusion of the backstory surrounding Joy's development isn't as left-field as it may seem, since by the end of Joyful, we can see how this unique drug affects its users far more than other addictive drugs and personal trauma. It's not an out for personal responsibility, but it shows how Joy is directly tied to its users' monstrosity. If you can purge your body of Joy and leave it behind, you have a chance to be human again.
hbomber, you could talk about bread turning into toast as whimsical or seriously as you want, as long as you give it your in-depth review treatment. Your insights are always enlightening and a Joyful experience. Please continue to whatever strikes your fancy.
I love this video but I disagree a bit about brad. I think brad did do some right things. Hiding Buddy was the right move. I mean you can see how fast the world goes crazy when she's found.
Yare Yare Daze "Depressing" isn't a synonym for "bad". Some of the best art in all its forms, paintings, music, films, and yes games, are incredibly depressing. Undertale was quite depressing for me too anyway, so by your logic it's terrible.
@@yareyaredaze2808 Jesus Christ, shut the fuck up abut Undertale already. We get it, you like fuzzy warm games with happy endings. I do to, those are great, but at least I have some respect for people who have different tastes. You're giving the Undertale fans who don't harass people and mass shit all over comment sections where they aren't needed a bad rep. Thanks.
I remember playing through Lisa: The Painful and completing it. I remember Brad saying "Did I do the right thing?" and then flopping over, and then credits. I then remember just sitting there. Looking at the screen. No sense of accomplishment. No "yay, I beat it". Nothing. I just felt... bad. I felt hollow and depressed. I really felt like I became the monster. Never before or since have I played a game that made me feel that way. Every game you play always gives a sense of accomplishment, even if the ending isn't a great one, you still feel like you accomplished something. But with Lisa: The Painful, you really just kind of sit there. Nothing was solved. Nothing was saved. I remember looking up Let's Plays of Painful and watching the ending, and many of the people playing did the same thing. They just kind of sat there, silent. Sometimes you'd hear a sigh, or a "uhh" like they're trying to think of something to say, and most of the time they can't. What a fantastic game. Then the enhanced version came out with Work Harder being replaced and it was complete shit, 0/10, do not buy. Just kidding - but losing that iconic track really was kind of disheartening. Still a very good game though.
As much as I appreciate this game and its nuances and tough choices, there is one simple and perhaps unreasonable belief of mine that makes it difficult for me to see some of the moral choices as gray. If the apocalypse happened and there was only one woman left on the planet, the answer to the question of that one guy on the cross Brad punches is "yes, we should absolutely die out." I can't help but respond this way for two reasons, the more emotional being that I don't think propagating humanity is enough to justify turning anyone into a brood mare or stallion against their will. The other reason is more literal and is a concern even if we consider that Buddy truly chose this and wasn't just trying to escape Brad's oppressiveness through any means necessary: even if the *ahem* "breeding program" was set up to minimize incest as much as possible, I don't think one mother could revive humanity. Eventually, what remained would be incredibly inbred and potentially too genetically similar to survive any subsequent challenges a wasteland would pose. Even then, I would argue all you're doing at that point is prolonging the inevitable by maybe a couple of decades at maximum, passing your own troubles onto the next generation knowing that there's zero hope for them to have a better life. Actually, that last part isn't so different from what's happening now with climate change, is it? Oof.
I guess you could say that people (if given the chance) will try to salvage/sustain what little fleeting hope that's dangling right in front of them. Even if they have to make some questionable moral choices that would tarnish their overall psyche. I say this because humans are incredibly hardy/fickle creatures. Most of us won't just lay down and let nature take its course, but try to struggle against the odds even in the face of such insurmountable challenges. Sort of like how our fight/flight response would trigger for people who are trying to commit suicide. Even though a person willingly tries to commit suicide, their fight responses kick in desperately at the last second to prevent what's about to come. However in LISA, given the debauchery of most men (if not all the male characters), have ulterior motives in mind and are just saying *Oh let's save the human race* to mask their hidden, perverted desires of having sex with a minor. That being said, I do believe that one female alone is not enough to breathe new life into humanity. However, perhaps the sacrifices of a select few may buy humanity time enough to figure out alternative ways of sustaining the human population? (e.g., artificial insemination perhaps?). Although I highly doubt that post-flash Olathe has the technical infrastructure/human capital/knowledge needed to facilitate such operations. Although Yado's mutant lab may have something of use. But it's a thought anyway. Furthermore, even expeditions to other regions outside of Olathe, where perhaps the flash has not severely affected the human populations as much. Perhaps peaceful integration with those communities and families will lead to natural breeding done the right way (as opposed to mindless rape/human propagation) That last part about climate change I agree with ;D As a Masters student, it's one of my research topics of interest. The situation's actually exacerbating more now because of the current pandemic (Increase in Single-use-plastics/surgical masks polluting oceans), countries cutting back on their renewable energy targets because of the economic/financial slowdown/budgets being deducted from climate change pursuits, and being reallocated towards medical expenses/infrastructure, etc.
Yeah, I feel similarly. No one should be forced into a severe violation of bodily autonomy and personhood like that, ESPECIALLY a minor. The game ends up mixing its message in that Brad is arguably completely right. Realistically though I think the apocalypse is a vector to drive the story about trauma, make things as desparate as possible to amplify the tension and put the player in a position to understand the violence, but the plot hooks LISA uses end up going against the story it tries to tell about Brad's trauma and protector complex.
When I first started to watch this video years ago, I actually did stop and decide I would wait to play the games first. Two years later and I still can't beat Lisa. One day-one day I'll actually be able to watch this video of yours.
@@vicentereyes8463 Thanks stranger! I did eventually finish Lisa, once I got the hang of it it wasn't THAT hard. I managed to make it through without ever using Joy, even. Absolutely wonderful game :)
A night in the woods is the most mediocre book steven king never wrote. I feel people connect with it because its a story about a disaffected youth with no future surrounded by people who're moving on and passing them by, and not because the mechanics through which that story is told are particularly strong. How's that for accurate?
I think it should be wonderfully noted that I just noticed regarding LISA compared to other RPGs. Bosses are actually affected by status effects. Instead of being arbitrarily immune to them (Looking at you to Persona 5)
I guess the idea behind making bosses immune to status effects was to make sure you couldn’t break their challenge and make them too easy? (Same reason why insta-kills usually don’t work on bosses in RPGs either) Problem is, Persona 5’s bosses are more… damage-spongey than actually hard
Something I like about the roulette mini game, it’s not a cutscene. Every time either your party member or the other person pulls the trigger, YOU have to hit the select button to make it happen. When your party member shoots himself, it’s because you FORCED them to kill themselves for your gain, which just makes losing him that much harder. Great detail.
Dissagree. The game theory one was both subtle and very, very obvious, and the fact it was used before all the fucked up shit happens didn't disrupt the tone.
Lisa's a game with humour, and I feel that the highs in the game's tone make the lows hit home all the harder. I personally disagree with your views on the humour in the video, but I do understand where you're coming from. Also, which warcraft do you hack? If you don't mind me asking.
@Archvaldor's Warcraft Hacks heavy disagree, it is always possible to make a good joke about abuse and trauma (see: this video's source material) Also (not that its important, but that since that in itself isn't important towards persuasion), I'm speaking as someone who is recovering from the long term abuse I received during childhood.
What you said between 8:00 and 11:00 are the reasons I am so fond of the game RimWorld. It starts out nice and simple, gathering resources and progressing, but you grow so attached to your colonists that losing one in a raid has that emotional impact on you. When someone gets an infection, or a disease spreads through your party, you get that feeling of urgency, that you need to save them. Not only are they your primary hunter, but they are a member of your colony. Death is permanent, and you will have to press on without them.
You know what I like, he may have spoiled it but it feel like he did. I've watched videos on game analysis and they spoil the whole game and all the difficult decisions with whether or not they affect anything. But this still left something for you experience and didn't feel really spoiler-y
I have to say, though 5 or 6 years late - that this video entranced me. Granted, I've played Lisa The Painful so understanding its' context made that section only more impactful than it would have been alone, i think this video was 100x better for having chosen to have a more serious conversation about Lisa than you might in other videos on other topics. I think the style suits your writing well
Oh, wow, this reminds me of an interesting tale. Would you like to hear it? Let's see.... Oh right! It all started with what I like to call, THE FLASH. I was sitting with my wife, god rest her soul, sipping on sweet lemon tea. I believe it was homemade by my sweet wife, God rest her soul. Or wait... Maybe she bought it from the store in a bottle. You know, like a plastic bottle? Well hold on now, that would be ridiculous to buy a bottle of sweet lemon tea, then transfer the contents into a glass. Why not just drink it from the bottle? I guess maybe so she could put ice in the glass? But then again, making tea homemade would be just as time consuming, if not more! That sneaky bitch... Anyway, I'll save that story for later! So, I'm sitting on my porch drinking sweet lemon tea. From a glass of course, ho ho! When suddenly... A great strangeness fills my body... Something was wrong... I've lived many years, and I've never felt something like this before. Do you know what it was? Yup! It was my rocking chair! That wooden son of a gun stopped rocking! So I looked down and realized a little rock had gotten caught beneath my chair! A rock under my rocking chair! What a day! I decided it was time for bed, I had had a little bit too much excitement for one day! Hoho! I slid into my jammies, brushed my teeth, and said my prayers. As I was climbing into bed I noticed my wife, God rest her soul, brushing her hair in the bathroom. As I peered across the hall my body swelled up with emotion... "Why can't I be married to an attractive woman?" "Is it me?" "My bank account?" I'm a tall guy, I workout forty minutes a week... Is that not enough? Now my neighbor at the time, Tom Forknight, was very short. His wife, Karen Forknight-Plateburger... Yeah, one of THOSE women. Well, she was more attractive than my wife. I'd say she was a soft six, whereas my wife was a hard four. What's the deal? I thought women liked tall men? Why was Karen with him? Anyway my horse of a wife, God rest her soul, crawled into bed next to me. She decided to leave the bedside light on so she could read her book. It was one of her romance novels again... Give me a break... As if I don't already feel inadequate enough... Not only do I have to compete with Tom, now I have to deal with these fictional hunks! Ay yai yai! At this point I had already suppressed the urges of intimacy, I rolled over and tried to sleep. Her bedside light was only of minor annoyance. I was able to drift off... Then I woke up to a big flash of light. That's about it. I can tell by the way you're walking away that you don't want to leave... If you really want to hear another story I'll tell you. Once upon a hot summer night. Sometime in July... Was it July? My local grocery store sells really good eggs in July. I don't know why. Do chickens operate better in heat? Fireworks maybe? I don't know. I don't want to get off topic. Point is, the eggs that Summer were marvelous! Anyway, my wife and I, God rest her soul, went to a BBQ that night. It was held at Dale Spooner's house. Well, his backyard... Conny Spooner doesn't want people in her home, I think she's just an uptight bitch. So at this BBQ I see none other than... That's right, Tom Forknight... Now earlier in the day my wife, God rest her soul, had made potato salad for the BBQ. Personally I hate potato salad, I'm a mashed kind of fellow. Hoho! So I sat in the TV room avoiding her till the BBQ. Once we were at the party, I made sure to distance myself from my dumb potato bitch wife. God rest her soul, I just didn't want anyone to think I would associate with someone that would bring a potato salad! Anyway, Tom and his above mediocre wife were already there. And get this, they brought a fruit salad! With whipped cream! The nerve of those Forknights! Needless to say I gave my wife, God rest her soul, a couple choice words About whipped cream! Versus potato salad! God dammit! Son of a bitch! A real tongue lashing! Geez, you're kind of smothering me. I'll talk to you later.
Yume Nikki helped me a lot when I was undergoing a deep depression. You were perfectly right about it - I like how you tied it into Lisa as well. Nice job with the video. I think comparing Lisa to .flow would be effective as well.
Remember when Game Theory was a tangential learning show inspired by a video from Extra Credits? That was a fun time. And MatPat likes to brush off "I liked the old videos better" comments by inserting jokes about production value. Haha, you could even draw a parallel about surface-level analysis or something. Haha. Ha...
Can y'all just... shut up? I've seen a billion hot takes about game theory and they're all annoying. I don't care how you feel about it but y'all gaming hipsters really need to just let it go
I'm really late to finding this, but you did an amazing job with your presentation, explanation, interpretation, and overall review of this series. Thanks for taking the time to give us this, it was a pleasure to watch.
Thank you for this video. There are a scarce amount of videos on LISA, let alone 40 minute long videos. As someone who played LISA the first back before the sequels, it warms my heart to see it still effecting people.
So I had play painful and joyful before watching this and it made me get emotional but, i never cried. Strangely enough the mix of the editing of the footage and the extreme intelligence within your analysis brought me to tears. EVEN stranger is that I believe that it was a mix of happy and sad tears. To make a long story short i relate extremely well with brad and buddy and I always analyzed the games similarly to you but less verbose and interesting and within my own head of course. But your video made me realize that someone else understood how I felt about the game, game design wise. Idk to be mad or thankful you made me cry but I do know that this like every other video you have made is wonderful keep it up!
IIRC the creator described it as Earthbound meets Fist of the Northstar. He originally wanted to make a game world swarming with quirky manly men like Fist of the Northstar or WWE, then he stopped and reflected on what a world without women would actually be like.
This is one of the games I have the deepest emotional connection to. Just watching the ending of the painful made me tear up and its been years since I've played
AW SHIT MAN NEW HBOMB VIDEO TIME TO GET HYPED AS FUCK Edit after watching whole video: Wow, these games actually sound quite powerful and moving. I guess I'll have to check them out.
What's more painful is that I've played through them 5 times and STILL DONT HAVE 100% FUCK YOU GAME WHY CAN MY PARTY MEMBERS NOT USE JOY FOR AN ACHIEVEMENT ABOUT THE MAIN CHARACTER NOT USING THEM AHHHHHH! So instead of replaying the ENITRE game I'm gonna just leave my steam profile with 99% on it forever to piss everyone off
Buzz0 I did joyless on first run, it's easy. I didn't even have a good team, armless Brad with Terry, Nern, Beastborn/Shocklord after that guy died, and I did look up things on the wiki occasionally. The game's fairly easy honestly, I only had trouble with Wally (because I fought him right after getting TNT which is supposedly early lol) and some mutants, though I didn't fight Satan. Unless you meant The Joyful, but joyless isn't an achievement there. Still easy do that after a patch added some OP abilities for Buddy lol, I only used it like 2 times on Rando.
Honestly? I think LTJ does just as good of a job as LTP. LTJ is *supposed* to feel mindless, Lisa is a character born in the apocalypse, and they act like it. Life for you is supposed to be less challenging, you don’t have the same morality as those who experienced the world before.
this vid literally popped up in the most random manner in my dash but I instantly clicked on it because THANK YOU. there is so little content about LISA. so few playthroughs n barely no analysis. I'm a bit sad I haven't seen this before but even years after playing the LISA series this vid still hits home. I really love the series n it still influences my own creative projects. the soundtrack is so unique n brillaint (even though I can't listen to every track all the time. or even very loud :') ). The way LISA portrait the cycle of abuse was inspiring n I'm glad smn like you made such an eloquent n great video about the series. you did it justice. thank you
I like the "subtle" jabs at GT You're like a much better version of GT You: -Actually make LONG, IN DEPTH, and DETAILED videos -You focus on QUALITY OVER QUANTITY -You talk about games that are, yaknow ACTUALLY INTERESTING TO TALK ABOUT *cough cough however many infinite FNAF theories he made* -You talk about more than just games which is always a neat thing to have variety -You don't grasp at straws and pull the tiniest details out of some hidden pocket in your ass so you can make more content and thus more money or some crap *cough basically EVERY MARIO THEORY HE MAKES* Plus instead of focusing on hokey "jokes" and bits that detach from the video and just kinda fill up time because yaknowwithoutthemthevideoswouldbelike4minuteslong and howyagonnagetthegoodadrevenuethen, you actually focus on what you're talking about. I don't mean to compare you to game theory because obviously you're very different from it, but I do wish you had more subs and views because you really deserve them.
Don't wanna dogpile with the other replies, but it is worth noting that hbomb is making the video as a critique and discussion about the game, while Game Theory is using the game as a medium to give a lecture on an out-of-game concept, or just to explore the game's lore - both for the purpose of entertainment at the end of the day. The approaches there aren't attempting to meet the same end, and to pretend they are seems disingenuous.
Funny how you start talking about the strategic importance of status effects while showing footage of Fly inflicting all possible status effects in one attack. Him and Birdie are almost comically broken, they can perfect the final optional boss easily. That's actually one of my biggest complaints about the game; it's really easy to work around once you figure it out. You can avoid cutscenes and fights by using the truck keys, big choice moments are pretty close to save spots so you can switch out your party for a shitty character or hide all your equipment and do it again, you can get everything in the karate village then get TBFP to blow it up, and there's plenty more but I'll stop. That being said Brad's fight against Rando's army is a better example, by adding new attacks you can't help but try that are also viable in combat. The cry option is great foreshadowing if you've been fighting alot of mutants.
Very much this. I think the default difficulty should had been pain mode, but with less save points. The idea of save points being a valuable finite resource was really cool, but the save points were way to common. The whole dilemma of "should I reset my game to possibly get a better outcome" becomes painfully obvious when the last save point was only a map away. But having pain mode as the default difficulty, with a very scarce, finite save points would really punish players who try to cheat the "big choice moments" by losing like 30 minutes of progress. The whole tension, and dilemma of choosing between your items, or your teammates becomes almost insincere knowing in the back of your head you could just reload the game, swap your team out with team mates you don't use, and really not lose much. and I really do think the save points right before you encounter buzzo should just be removed. Overall, I think the game tries really hard to create these really difficult dilemma questions, but by pure virtue of it being a video game with save states, kind of eliminates any sort gripping decisions. Lisa doesn't really punish players who reset the game to get a better outcome, and I think that's really important in a game that has a lot of meaningful decisions. You lose like at best, a few minutes. In area 3, the whole area had only like 3 save points. and it created some REALLY gripping moments *in joyless run. I just wish there was more of that. But I think the removal of save points would annoy players who don't play the entirety in one sitting. Perhaps it's just in the medium of games, and the idea of scarce, finite saves is a bad idea. But a lot of lisa's strengths would had been magnified if given finite, scarce save point.
Funnily enough, those two party members were supposed to be handicapped by Joy Addiction in game, but thanks to a programming fuck-up that never happens normally. In fact, there’s a bunch of broken programming in the game that, when fixed, makes the game a lot harder (some party members that were meant to be Joy Addicts actually feel the effects, certain enemies have perma-death attacks are too low of a priority for them to ever be used, a couple of unused mutants exist that were party members).
Yes. You say the right things, all of them. I was giving a thumbs up throughout entire video, directly at my screen. I recommend you look into *the famicom game Sweet Home*, in case you haven't yet. It's a bit clunky to play today, but I feel its approach to item scarcity made for something very compelling in some similar ways to Lisa (and in some different ways too!). It's essentially the first survival horror game, but its a turn-based RPG with random battles, and its setting is a single haunted mansion. It would eventually inspire the first Resident Evil game, which was initially supposed to be a remake of it, but they lost the rights to the license and so made something new instead. Sweet Home has no money, no towns and shops to buy items from, no Inns or camps to heal your party at either; your only healing comes from a finite number of potions you can find throughout the haunted mansion. The death of any of your teammates is permanent. Your teammates even have unique abilities, so losing them is a really significant setback that requires you to find new things to make progress, and makes your path forward all the more treacherous. Sweet Home, Lisa, and older survival horror games in general are big inspirations for my game design, I've been working on making a kind of survival horror RPG with this sort of scarcity of resources and somewhat complex combat. Been working on this for years now! It's a real challenge though. When trying to make a battle system more complex, it is very easy to end up with a kind of redundant complexity, things that add "options" to combat without really adding meaningful decision-making. Another trap is crafting strategies into your battles that you mean your players to discover, but which players don't really have any reasonable means to get to on their own, without just telling them about it. This is especially challenging if a lot of your enemy encounters are "unique" and not recurring monsters, which means players have a reduced opportunity to apply things they've learned to other battles. There are so many pitfalls like that, so many little design quirks that make designing genuinely fun and interesting turn based combat battles a challenge! I have a lot of respect for designers who could make it work, and Austin Jorgensen is definitely one of them.
I like happy endings in stories like this. I really appreciate the idea that Buddy gets one, especially because there's a feeling that she represents the promise of Lisa that her father destroyed.
“I don’t think I’ve ever been so attached to an expendable resource in a game.”
*plays Pathologic HD*
“DeLicIoUs...E G G”
@Joe Average i am your character aaaaarc
What about Lisa the pointless or Darkest Dungeon?
Chocoboy ur not wrong
Whoa, I didn't expect such a snappy response, if any for that matter.
Chocoboy 😂 I hope you don’t mean snappy in a bad way. I was definitely not trying to be mean. I was agreeing. But yeah, I have actually 0 life, so I really do be responding 😳
To quote someone, "My horse of a wife, god bless her soul, went to the kitchen and got me a glass of iced tea."
I know this is 7 months old but its God rest her soul. You potato bitch
My potato bitch of a wife
That's nern isn't it
+GavyGaming no it’s mr. harry butts
@Tristan Clement I'm confused, even google is. Enlighten please?
My god were those patreon names real?
"Several rats, each of which with unknowable arcane power" has completely blown me away.
his patrons know that they’ll be displayed at the end so they often mess around a lot 😂
At 36:58 there's a patron entitled 'Bee Movie but every time they say "bee" I donate $10 to Hbomberguy'
38:03 Rindflleischetikettierungsüberachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz 😂
yeah rats tend to do that when they get arcane power
@@themandownstairs4765 that was a lot of money, back in those days
My friend got to the "Hurt buddy/kill your party" choice. He sat there for 15 mins. He did not say a word. He made his peace and his choice, saved, and demanded to play literally anything else. He only finished weeks later.
I ended up doing the same thing LMAOOOOO i played The Painful, waited two weeks to pick up The Joyful... Only to get stuck at "leave them/join them" and have a breakdown
That choice specifically was easy mainly for two reasons. 1 I save scummed the SHIT out of the game(hey I earned the privilege I played the game completely blind while in pain mode and no Joy) and the way I was playing brad was a REALLLLLLL shit head of a person. My brad was the type of guy to willingly nuke the entire world if it means nobody lay's a finger on his desire(buddy in this case), so I kinda had to slaughter my entire party on the grounds of roleplay😂. It was very jarring having the game literally call me out on being a dick by earning the "Selfish" trophy(which btw it's the least earned trophy out of the 3, that's some humanity restoring elixir for ya) and then have buzzo actively call me sick for even considering the life of 3 men amount to a flesh wound. What an absolute masterpiece of a game, I'd have gotten the number one spot on my personal GOTY if it wasn't for that drunken disco maniac called Harry du Bois and his antics on philosophy. It may take a decade but eventually Disco Elysium will get the attention it absolutely deserves. So for now the painful sits as my seconds favorite game of all time, solid.
hurting buddy is the canon choice sadly because her nipple is found later in the series as a secret item needed for the true ending@@iansantiago6526
Same. First time in a long time that a choice in a videogame has left me stumped.
"...unless you're a pretentious weirdo who likes to read into things."
*ears perk up*
Heyyyyyy!! Didn't expect you here.... Although now that I think about it, it makes sense. Anyways you do amazing work so keep it up!!
Eyyyyyy glad to see you here! I love how both of you and hbomberguy have such great thought provoking content!
*YOU?????*
11:37
Oh-?
So, with the whole player narrative thing, I remember when I sat down with my friend to play through the game, she lost two people to the russian roulette event until Rage Ironhead managed to beat the third guy thats necessary to defeat until you can move on. Rage wasn't really being used in the party, so she decided to keep using Rage and see how far he could go.
And then Rage just kept winning. He just stormed through the goddamn Russian Roulette winning every round. Rage became a hype machine, and the somewhat forgettable character became, in this one game, a supreme legend. Then we got to the final round, and the final opponent shot himself, but SURVIVED. And then, when the round kept going, Rage finally bit the bullet.
Next round, Olan was used and we beat the last guy, but the memory of Rage Ironhead would live on.
Never forget, Rage Ironhead. The Luchadore who single-handedly broke the LISA Economy.
i used Nern because i never liked him. He then promptly won ever single roulette game and he is still dead to me.
I ended up letting Buzzo kill Fardy, Rooster and Percy early on, and I thought “Godammit I have to sacrifice more people?! I just got three of them killed!”
Then Terry ended up soloing the three Russian Roulette rounds. Damn shame he got his head bit off by a Joy Mutant…
Same thing for me but with Percy, except he won all 10 in a ROW.
This is maybe the best video game analysis video I've ever seen
Good to see you here man. Hope you're doing well
Oh hey, I know that guy!
No, you don't
uhhhhhhhhhhhhh
This is the strangest crossover I have ever seen
Honey, have you seen shrek has swag?
Ah, the series that made me 30% less happy. Permanently.
Increases comedy levels bu 70% doe
Bruh for real. This shit still hits me in the face at random times, and I watched a full playthrough like three years ago.
Have you considered double dipping and reading berserk? We could bump that number up to at least 70.
+Depressed
@@Whyexes if you read any book of octavia butler you can make it to a 100
the final part of The Painful where you unlock "Cry" and "Scream" gets me so hard every time.
It gets you what now?🤨
HES 47? ZAMNMMMNN
Caught in 4k 🤨📸
@@alexanderthegreat-mx5zu this comment made me spit out water all over my keyboard, thanks for that
@@wontonschannel no problem,i can make you split it in red too.
CAME BACK JUST TO POINT OUT THAT IN THE DEFENITIVE EDITION, HBOMBERGUY ITS IN THE SPECIAL THANKS!
:O
whaaaaat that's so nifty.
the "dad comforts you" is geniunely sad
Aidyn Colan that entire fight is soul crushing
I cried
i cried, the only time i did on the three games, you can clearly see the mirror of the VHS in Lisa:the first, and how Martyn is reflected on Brad, the mistakes he did to try to overcome Martyn and ending traveling a broken path, better than his father, but just as human and wrong, and that is something that made my cry.
Aidyn Colan why
Unlikable Because it implies that even through all the horrible shit Brad did, Lisa still has some emotional attachment to him.
"Did i do the right thing"
This Sentence got me right in the feels as is played the game myself...
Emotionaly devistating fully thoughout.
Nimbl also the "fight" against brad at the end of the joyfull is one of the saddest things on the planet
Sardonicus Same, I felt like all my companions like Beastborn, Nern, Olan, Ajeet, Harvey, Terry, and Bug Guy were all going to team up with me and defeat Randos army in one last battle. I started to tear up when Harvey, the last guy alive started to cry.
Man I'm glad I finally got around to watching this in full. Absolutely fantastic breakdown of the series.
I wish my big dumb brain was able to conjure insight and deconstruction half this smart.
Nitro Rad Wow didn't know you liked Hbomberguy. Congrats on leaving your job, but next time pre-rip the shirt maybe?
One of the most underrated TH-camrs right here
Still both great videos👌👌
HONESTLY!!! Just keep writing and thinking about games! Your content gets better and better every single time
I go to NitroRad to see how fun a game is and how good of a “game” it is, and Hbomberguy for how good the writing and how good an “experience” it is. Love you both
There's something that HBomb didn't point out that I think is a HUGE part of what make Painful great and different that other RPG's. When he said that there's a finite amount of mags and you will need to be smart and choose what you buy wisely, that's not entirely true.
It becomes so obvious that in most RPG's you just have a TON of money, so you can just load up on whatever you see in a store. When playing LISA, you don't have that luxury: when you need weapons, you'll be selling everything you don't think you'll need and picking characters to upgrade and which to decide will stay weaker because the weps can be so expensive (looking at you, Queen Bands...). But you can have that ton-of-money experience where you can just buy everything, but there's only one way to get that many mags: Russian Roulette.
You can make a KILLING playing RR. The mags increase by 50 when you win a game (you first make 100, then 150, then 200, up to 450, I believe) and they stack, easily giving you 2,000+ mags if you make it to the end, giving you all you need to buy everything. But, obviously, that comes at a price. If you want that wealthy experience where you can buy things without thinking, you have to risk all your friends. You WILL lose party members. When going for it, expect to lose 5 or 6 of them. And while you're rolling in mags and you get Buckets to join, you now have less friends, and if you lose them to perma-killers, suddenly you're alone or surrounded by low level members... was it worth that risk?
It's just a great acknowledgement of how much money you have in most RPG's. That ability to just have everything and stock up on healing items before a big fight does exist in Painful. But you may lose your party in the process. So most players will choose to spend wisely and scrounge around mags instead of potentially losing their friends.
Such a genius way to handle currency.
actually you are kinda wrong on that since the EWC gives you the ability to indefinetly exp and mag farm
Also, savescumming is still possible with roulette. Harder on Pain Mode, but still possible
16:40
sounds like grinding to me lol
For real tho. I like the analysis, and the addendums to it that the replies offer. It would have been a good addition, and perhaps hbomb could have addressed it better. He seems to have noticed it based on what he says about resources early in the video, maybe not, but maybe it just got cut in editing?
No one talks about the design of save scumming in that part, you can either save EVERY time you win and reload every time you loose, or just kinda, try a few times, win 2/3 times... because the trip from and to the save point is so boring, it's intentionally discouraging you from save scumming so you take more risks even when you do that, making you bargain with the game itself. How do you even think to design around something like that??
"This game copied Undertale!"
"This game copied YumiNiki!"
It's all Mother/Earthbound guys.
Me : *SLAMS DOWN ON TABLE WITH RELIEF* THANK YOU
True, but reducing it down to "copy" kinda obscures the additions we see in each derivative work.
haha yes but have you heard of MOON
its all mother/earthbound all the way down
all turtles all the way down
wait, its all mother/earthbound?
always has been
Earthbound is just a copy of Peanuts.
Also - I was hoping you'd touch on the "Flash" mechanic in Joyful. It's absolutely one of those topics that's hard to talk about with people, since it is certainly unsettling, but storywise it felt like it made a lot of sense. Buddy was taught to fight dirty and use whatever tricks she could to survive. Considering the number of enemies that will outright try to feel you up/molest you, it seemed a sadly appropriate move to have that also linked the story to the gameplay.
notsusan keep in mind in painful you have the option to have buzzo cut off buddy's nipple. So there is a 50% chance she's using a mutilated chest. In other words, the world of Lisa is so girl deprived even a mutilated breast is a big deal
I think that was meant to highlight the behavior that men often do when they feel disrespected or bested by a woman - their first instinct is to insult their looks, even when it's their dying words. That's the impression I got, anyway.
@I'm a Boglin That was directed at Fardy. Because they tricked people into thinking Fardy was the girl. You're just wrong chief.
i realize this is a four year old comment but i finally played these games and came back to re-watch the video with all the added context, and i am actually so glad he didn't talk about it. because when i leveled up in joyful, saw that i learned a new move, and went to see what it did, my heart literally sank. it was, probably, the most disturbing moment i experienced across both painful and joyful. because you're right-- it makes sense. it makes all the sense it the world, and yet, it puts you, the player, in control of adding to even more of buddy's trauma. because you get that skill /after/ you've been playing the game a little, the first time you use the move is the first time buddy thinks to do that to survive. just wrestling with that was completely devastating, personally. and i never used the move once. but i did have to stare at it every single fight, as an analog for buddy knowing, in the back of her mind, that it is always an option-- always a new way to sink lower into personal horror.
Tf is flash
The scene where brad is only one at lisa's funeral brought me to a waterfall of tears. Not becuase im a little bitch (i am) but because the game's writing and visual story-telling is so on point and grounded.
This is one of the best stories ever told if not the best.
What’s interesting is that Buzzo ended up taking Lisa’s coffin with him and we see it in Joyful
Wait... THAT WAS LISA????
Oh god, there goes another 13 hour save....
"I hope you're watching this at night. If you watching this in the morning you might just have a really sad day. It's not really a morning thing"
Ideal warning placement right at the end of the patreon credits.
It’s kinda like that part of the last of us where you escape the sewers and find a warning in the exit telling that zombies are inside
I'm glad other people think like this. During the day, if I watched something like this, I'd be fine. I'm watching this extremely early in the morning and actually got entertained AND disturbed which is pretty rare for me.
I will do what ever I want mom
I just finished watching this and it’s 10:30am and it’s been raining outside since 6am so hm
In an interview Austin Jorgensen once said that the story if Lisa was inspired by his ex-girlfriend. Without going into too much details, he explains that she had a fucked up upbringing with her father that she could never quite get over and he said that it affected their relationship is a really bad way. He wanted to do whatever her could to help or "fix" her but he failed to do so and the relationship ended. So the character of Brad can definitely be seen as an extension of himself as a protector and may have also been a conduit for personal reflection. This is speculative since he hasn't directly said this but much in the same way that Buddy doesn't want Brad controlling her life, its possible Austin's relationship ended because he was trying to fix a problem that wasn't his to fix? I don't want to make too many public assumptions beyond my own private interpretations but I highly respect his level of humility by pouring himself into this game. I mostly wanted to bring up the backstory on the creation of Lisa because I think it provides a different perspective for the next time someone plays it, looking at some of the characters, decisions, and story beats as metaphorical and allegorical to a real life experience from the creator.
Then buzzo would likely be too, maybe?
I hate the main screen of the game not in a bad way its just so disturbing to see lisa hanged it makes me feel so sad
@ボイス yea your right
@@ιθκ-κ4ο Buzzo is based on Jagi from Fist of the North Star
@@blankieplays1350 It's crazy to think without any previous context that the main title of the game is a huge plot development for the series
Lisa: The First
Lisa: The Painful
Lisa: The Joyful
The names of the games are amazing and really bring home the idea of causality, despite the fact Lisa herself is not in Painful or Joyful she is arguably the impetus for the events of both games
I thought the ending for Joyful was legitimately brilliant because of the way it was framed - Sure you had the deus ex potion that cured you of your illness, but the game positions the question in a way that asks you "do you really want to take it?" Taking the potion discards the comforting delusions and "joy' you receive from those delusions. By taking the potion, you're essentially leaving Brad and Rando behind, and at that point in the plot, she realized how much she truly valued her memories of them.
But the game respects the player's intelligence to make the right decision - To be stuck in the past and comforting yourself in your idealized delusions only leads to disaster. The better for Buddy is achieved by suppressing that joy and assuming your own personal responsibilities to better herself. The easy way is to avoid personal responsibility and not take the potion, the harder way was to take it and face the hardships that's to come with grace.
I think it's important to note that Buddy's delusions were more gleeful than Brad's. Whereas Brad was hunted by drug usage, Buddy was embellished by it.
This is a protestant take.
@@DaKrimch I thought it was rather Catholic
@@theshamelesskid2950 I felt it fell more along the lines of Evangelic
@@charliecoke7396 yeah that fits, maybe even Greek Orthodox
@@charliecoke7396 evangelic is protestant bro
Was really pathetic seeing MattPatt unable to absorbed and appreciate Lisa. Instead that stream was filled with "that reminds me of undertale", "hahaha thats a funny joke" and "Im putting a content warning". He attempted to please his audience by saying that he liked it and appreciated it but failed to thoroughly experience Lisa. You could feel Matt trying to attach undertale to Lisa during his play through, that was painful. I'm sure he was just joyful with the thought of Lisa Theory Episode 55 but thats not Lisa. I would've preferred that he just said he didn't like it and leave it at that rather than pretending he was invested in it.
But hey thats just a rant, a pointless rant.
Ya I guess we just got to be hopeful that mattpat will appreciate LISA
mattpatt is a joke nowadays, he's full of shit..
You should start a channel. The Pointless Rantists.
I think the main issue is that he got recommendations for it on an individual level but had built his online persona as family friendly and couldn't find a way to appropriately present his playthrough publically. He jumped into the game without warnings on how it may not be a casual thing to show his viewers. If he had played it in private and then discussed it in a theory video after the fact, he would have given better respect to the creative genius of Lisa, even with all of its brutal themes.
and yet he was totally clueless?
I have to say, it's nice to see someone talking about LISA without shitting all over Undertale.
Well Undertale *_IS_* better.
This game is MEGA depressing
Buddy is a murderer
You kill your own team mates who won't fight back etc
And idk a thing about this game.
CtOnEdge SAME.
Also, King_ Dimension, I don't think that games that are "depressing" "sad" etc. should be considered bad/low games just because of that factor. (I personally quite love many types of games like that but it also depends...) But, hey, I see that everyone has their own tastes and opinions, however, it would be nice if you did that without stating it as a fact...maybe you should check out the game first? Even if you don't like it, c'mon no need to start triggering hate here...those kind of comments may trigger hate.
Anyways, yeah, it's all about opinions, interpretations and stuff (without shitting over other games) that matters. That's one of the most kind things to do when reviewing a game. (and understanding the game's message is very nice too)
...sorry, rant over.
Those three things you listed don't inherently make Lisa the worse game, fam
Yare Yare Daze It adds to the story experience tremendously and puts value on what you have and what you can lose. Not for everyone, but very en..joyable.
Tropes in Undertale is really bland
It really hits me after watching both this and the Pathologic video how *little* hbomb says about the plots of these games. On the one hand it's masterful to be able to speak at such length and give away so little, but on the other hand it's a bugger because I don't think I could put myself through any of it to find out and yet I desperately want to know the stories in detail.
The creators of this game made an amazing hack for this in the definitive edition (and maybe the normal version too, idk)!!! At the very beginning, there's a pill Terry offers you to make the game effortlessly easy- the only thing you lose is "pride" (according to the game lol).
I think its for players who just want to experience the plot and have fun instead of stressing out and grinding
@@jenkinsjrjenkins More games should do that! I enjoy the challenge in most story-rich games the first time, but after that I'm pooped and just want to do the story again.
I feel like hes not looking at the bigger picture. This isnt buddy's story, not Brad's or buzzo or anyone. This story is what happened to Lisa and how it affected everyone
How it hurt brad and buzzo and rando and hurt buddy in the end that shaped who they were and what they did. This story isnt in individual pieces, this is one big sad monster.
Well said.
I still think its an amazing vid but yeah i agree
Even though I’m commenting on this several years after this comment I think the point he is trying to make is that part of what makes the story of these games interesting is the personal story of Brad and Buddy. While the overall story is about how Lisa’s death impacts the Lisa universe, the reason the story becomes so interesting is how it focuses so much on the perspective of Brad and Buddy. The personal story of these two ends of making an already decently interesting story all the more relatable and intriguing. The personal stories of Brad really make him a much more interesting character than most silent protagonists of similar sorts of games. It also helps that the game manages to drag the player into these sorts of experiences
Wait, Joyful's music is considered awful?
But... But I...
*looks at how many times I've played those tracks*
My... My musical tastes...
SageOfTheWest in terms of music theory, it’s a mess. Nothing is really consistent, it’s loud and can be obnoxious, and it’s absolutely packed to almost bursting.
But they’re GOOD.
PorkyTheKing I think music theory needs to get with the times
It fits perfectly within the game's situations but outside of it, it can be jarring to hear. Expect many stares when listening to "666 Kill Chop Deluxe" in public, without headphones
Doesn't matter what's considered awful man. Everyone has shit taste according to someone. So listen to whatever. 😗
Don't listen to them. This soundtrack is NON. STOP. JAMS.
As someone who avoided the Lisa games for anxiety reasons, I love and appreciate this video for the chance it gave me to really appreciate the games and understand what made them so good.
Cosigned.
I wish I hadn't watched it for the same reason. It sounds like these themes hit way too close to home for me.
Well start playing these games already! Don't stick with overrated games like Undertale and play Lisa!
Quit being a victim. Your anxiety is simply an emotion. Wish more people would realize this.
Simply quit being a victim. I've suffered through abuse. You know what I did to deal with it? I manned the fuck up and realized that in order to move forward you gotta let go of the past. @@sharkofjoy
Wew game theory diss, now that's kicking a hornets nest
Come on, I bet true fans of game theory know that Matt makes it always "his way", I believe that is actually why he has so many fans - because they look forward to seeing what kind of mind-blowing mind-fuck he came up with this time..
Yeah, I don't really care either, not a FAN though, but I mean, Mat does it for fun and expression, not precisely for your personal amusement, just like this guy, who, hopefully as a joke, talks about being a weirdo that reads too much into thing, when pretty much all his analysis are twice or thrice as long as a GT normal video (this one is 40 minutes, for god's sake). He can say whatever he wants, I still enjoyed his video, just as I enjoy matpat's rants about Mario's height, FNAF and Undertale, even if he doesn't like it.
Ha! Harris kicks hornets' nests for a living!
Fllinn gaming yeah, I agree they have dirty tricks many times, and that their content isn't the most originl half of the time, but theories aren't actually anyone's property, they're just that, if that wasn't the case, why didn't he/she report this? It's an easy win for that guy. What if I told you someone else already thought about all of this in the video and posted it on another webpage? By the way, how many theories were "copied"? Because many people can arrive to the same conclusión since this is the same material we're talking about, it's not like it's plain imposible to think the same about many things, a great example was yume nikki, or the game inspired by that one .flow, in which there is room for creativity and theorizing, but everything along certain logical parameters, accepted by pretty much all the theorists, which are, taking my example: she killed someone, she's transexual, she's mentaly and phisically sick, she's pregnant, she was raped by someone close, etc (in other words, something bad must have happened). It's pretty much useless to try and come up with something totally new, since evryone thinks, not just you, plus it would be too much of a hassle to search every fórum and webpage on the internet, just to make sure you're not copying something from someone that may not even care. Nevertheless, you're right, is you found it, and it has someone's name on it, you must give credit, if it's a case like the one you're mentioning, but even then, if you're just picking up some of the opinions of the internet, that many people think of, it's already no one's.
I insist, that's a way too convenient of an argument, it's like the people that argument that aliens exist because they've seen an alien before, even if it's very detailed and you're a very trustworthy person, a personal experience isn't enough, especially because, again, there are billions of people in the world, they are bound to think of similar things, not the exact same, but similar things. Perhaps Matt found that specific commentary and expanded it, who knows, but that doesn't mean he stole it, because then, pretty much every analysis and theory about a videogame would be stolen, including this one, which was made of many thoughts many people had before, even I imagined one or two things before this video was even on this guy's head, and many people on the steam community and reddit thought about it too, like those feelings that he describes about caring about the ítems or characters you may/may not lose.
Two things:
One, Jorgensen stated that all fangames/comics/stories/etc. are all canon. He said all of LISA is fiction, why is anyone else's fiction any better or worse, so it's all faction, so it's all canon. I just think his idea there is neat.
Two... LISA the First was inspired by a true story... Which, once you learn that, makes the experience of playing it gut-wrenching.
oh my god.
I wanted to watch this videos like 2 years ago, stopped at the spoiler warning to play it, bought lisa the painful, forgot about it and now after picking it back up again, i finish it to finally come back to this video.. and now i'll also have to play lisa the joyful.. I cant take any more of this.. see you in a few years i guess
I really liked the format and the analyisis, though I am a bit disappointed that you didn't really touch on how the game actually offers an alternative to Brad and Lisa's cycle of violence in the form of Rando. I liked that the skull-mask wearing, army leading warlord, who you run into several times ultimately turns out to be the last decent person in the world, even though it can be argued that he had it even worse than Brad.
Well yeah he didn't mention many other crucial things either. I suspect that the things he DID talk about were deliberately picked to be just enough to entice potential new players to experience this on their own, spoiler warning and all.
Wasn't so much a critique as it was an admission of disappointment since Rando is my favourite character in the game.
I feel the same way about Buzzo
Just goes to show that Lisa is such a good game that you can talk about it for forty minutes and not discuss really weighty elements
In a way, I'm reminded of Harpo from The Color Purple as he's, at first, the first boy in the book to seem able to escape the situation of continuous misogynistic violence all characters are trapped in.
You're tearing me apart Lisa!
KazisCollection as much as it hurts me to say THATS WHAT BRAD SAID!
"and I don't want to preemptively ruin your experiance."
Isn't the experience meant to ruin you and your hope?
I was hoping to see this meme XD
Idk anything about this game...so explain the joke
It's a reference to The Room. It was a meme for a while, sometime early this year/maybe late last year I think. The joke's only correlation to the game is the name in the quote
Not two hours, unsubsrib
It's could have been two hours if he would talk about fangames.
not two days, unsubscribe
Not a game thoery...unsubsrip
Nob stu hers, unsbrrb
Oh
God, the moment at the end of joyful where the “he’s my dad” track jumps in had me legit crying. Didn’t realize until then that video games, this medium so inextricably tied to the simpler joys of my youth, could elicit such powerful, complicated emotions.
Then Disco Elysium came out and proceeded to powerbomb my heart. Both very excellent games about washed up bearded alcoholics who have destroyed their lives in response to traumatic events. Just need one more similar game to call it a genre…
The "He's my dad" track still absolutely murders me every time I hear
it😭
Three years ago I watched the first few minutes of this video. I heeded the spoiler warning and clicked off. I put the Lisa games off for years for a multitude of different reasons, but I finally got back to them. I just beat Joyful today. And now I'm finally ready to watch this.
How was the video
@@seabornebook bussin
@@comlicab2041 agreed
i agree with you on all points. but i honestly expected you to express the sadness and feeling of helplessness you get in the 2 first games and the liberation in the last one. maybe victims of childhood abuse feel those stronger than other people. i found these games very empowering but also reminded me of a lot of bad things, and how the bad things felt.
I was kind of hoping for the same. It seems from some of the comments I hear about Joyful that the liberation point doesn't seem to get through so well to a lot of people, but i felt the same way when Buddy showed up with the trumpet.
I tried getting into LISA: THE PAINFUL and while I respect its artistic value, the unrelenting oppressiveness of its themes was just too much for me and I didn't get far before I gave up. But I'm glad that it's inspired thoughtful critique like this and influenced people to make art of their own.
Its ok, you don't have to go through a game's ending to enjoy it.
Alex W S Chan you don't even have to like it to respect it.
Idk a thing about this game
I'm with you. Personally I feel like I'm too much of an emotional wreck to even try a Lisa game so I plan not to. But I won't slag it off either cause it is visually and mechanically well done.
Filby Are you 12?
I downloaded Lisa, played the first two scenes, and quit because I was not prepared for that
PUSSY
@@truthseek3017 Oh the irony.
@@sydneyzane7434 I'm an ironic guy Sydney.
@@sydneyzane7434 I see no irony, just truth.
This is absolutely fascinating to me, but also had the probably unintended effect of ensuring I never play this series. But as someone who struggles with personal trauma, I'm very glad it exists even if it didn't exactly stick the landing.
I know this comment is like 2-3 years old so idk if you have or not, but you should definetly play the game and form your own opinions of the stuff happening and the ending ykno from different perspectives it has different meanings
What's your profile pic from? It looks cool
@@stenhansenmaling1281 games like these can be good but very triggering for people with mental illness and trauma, simply put... sometimes it hits too close to home
@@stenhansenmaling1281 Nobody needs to re-expose themselves to potential trauma just for experience. Theres a lot of potential damage to be done by encouraging people to expose themselves to things that can be extremely upsetting. Different perspectives, like you say, can include being far more traumatizing than you imagine.
As someone who played through this game, rewatching the roulette scene is stressful more than any other in any game.
I remember playing _LISA: The Painful RPG_ back when it came out in late 2014, and to this day I'm blown away by the fact that an RPG Maker game made by one guy is one of the most (forgive me for this) "cinematic" experiences I've seen in gaming - and more over, it's one of the most gorgeous game stories I've played through since _Silent Hill 2_. Austin Jorgensen proves that the auteur can be (and often is) far more compelling than any big-budgeted studio production.
By the way: great video, Hbomberguy. I'm really excited for the potential _Night in the Woods_ video. It's one of my favorite games of this year.
Nick V. Have you played the corpse party games in the past? I think you'd enjoy them. They're a handful of gamemaker games. The story is interesting, with some genuinely scary moments, despite the games being laughably cheap looking.
At first glance they look like generic gamemaker games, but the story really sells it.
It is by no means perfect. It is fairly clunky to control and navigate admittedly and some of the content is downright oddly designed. But it's still worth playing IMO, watching someone else play it, is a great disservice to the game. A lot of the mood isn't conveyed when you're just watching.
I'm surprised most of the comments aren't talking about the game. Like, seriously.
I'm thrilled that someone actually understands and appreciates this game for what it is and not for how similar it is to Undertale (Game Theory), which, by the way, is a completely different game --combat, narrative, mechanics. LISA presented a grim, bleak, and gruesome narrative that enthralled me unlike any other game I played. Brad is one of the few video game characters that I think about a lot. Not because he's heroic or bold, but because he is flawed. He possess flaws that are relatable. Depending on your choices, he can be viewed as self-sacrificing or negligent. Even the choices where Brad's character overrides the player's choice, demonstrate excellent characterization.
With games like Earthbound, Undertale, and Yume Nikki that have inspired a whole ream of game creators, I hope LISA enters that group as a game that challenged players with it's strong, evocative narrative that cleverly tie in with its gameplay. Anyway, wonderful analysis. You voiced the good and the bad very well and I have to agree that The Joyful had its flaws. LISA has had a massive impact on me as a gamer and an individual. I haven't quite seen many people tackle this game as hard and as thoughtfully as you did. Cheers!
LISA and Undertale are cut from the same vine, so to speak. They’re part of a special subgenre, much like roguelike and anime fighter are. They all have common sources of inspiration that can be seen in their work.
How can someone even compare this to Undertale when LISA came out 1 year before Undertale? Are there people saying that this came copied Undertale just because Undertale is the more popular game without realizing LISA came out first?
Pixelated games with good characters = Undertale.
Or at least thats what people like Mister Matt trying to tell us. Problem is, said game was on the top for so long that it got permanently scarred itself into our brain, much like Dark Souls. Everything that is slightly similar to it can and will remind us of it. Like some bad addiction.
I don't think the final choice is about her getting over her issues. The way I saw it, she was becoming more and more unhinged as time went on. She became more and more violent, fighting through extreme pain and hopped up on Joy with the ideal of ruling and freedom running rampant in her mind. That final choice? It's either her becoming a true queen, or realizing that she's been losing herself. That in no way would make her fixed of her utterly ruinous life, but it would be akin to sitting on the edge of your futon with a loaded gun in your lap. You want to do it, you need to do it, it's the good thing to do, it's the RIGHT thing to do, you should do it, everyone wants you to do it because it'll make it better for them, do it do it do it... but... what if you don't? What if... maybe it would be better to not?
And from there, she either pulls the proverbial trigger and spends the rest of her existence as the ultimate queen with the corpses of the two men who meant the most to her, or she just tries to live with herself. Who knows what she would be like as an adult, or what crisis she underwent to end up with a child. But that's not for us to know. What matters is if she lets the madness and overwhelming urge to be free (which Joy boosts) control her enough, or if she can more or less snap out of it.
“This reminds me of Undertale”.
LISA reminds me of Earthbound more than Undertale.
Hbomberguy:they should run our school system.
Every guy that fail in a test have to chose to
1 lose your arm
2 lose your lunch money
3 get your best friend kiddnaped
A 40 minute long Hbomberguy video on a video game.... It's like christmas come early.
its funny to read this after hes made a 3 and half hour long video on why a game is just okay
@@elizzzzzabitch can't wait for all 17 hours of "FIFA 97 Makes Me Totally Apathetic, And Here's Why"
Glad someone open-minded and thoughtful behind analyzing games is covering this overlooked classic. As I described it in my review, "If Earthbound was a love-letter to childhood, then LISA is your childhood getting curb-stomped to a world laughing at you."
LISA is genuinely one of the greatest video game experiences I've ever had, and despite my love for the series, I must say I'm glad you managed to put into words what I felt were some of the issues with Joyful.
My best friend and I, sometime last year I believe, watched some non-commentary longplays of the games together after I constantly yappered to him about how great the games were and how I wanted to share the experience. I remember when we were going through Joyful, we both concluded at different points that the game clearly was made to "tie everything up", and mostly just that. And don't get me wrong, I loved learning about the world of Olathe (the Joy Mutants are absolutely fascinating to me) and getting that 'conclusion' to just what the hell was going on and who did it was satisfying to have for the sake of closure (like I especially loved how the source behind it all, Dr. Yado, was actually around all the time during Painful but constantly _just_ hidden out of sight (he even became a bit of a joke for my friend as "Disapproving Trumpet Man" when we finished Painful and I showed him the easter eggs) ), but it's true that Joyful does get kind of 'distracted' or 'sidetracked' trying to get that lore out there. Buddy never really _had_ to confront Yado, he already established his kingdom of slaved flesh piles and was satisfied as the ultimate antagonist probably, but it was there because without it we'd still be speculating on what even happened.
And it felt kinda weirdly tacked on.
Not to mention how stupidly easy the final boss fights are (The battle against Berny lasts only like 30 seconds but has an amazing track that goes all kinds of deranged after like 2 and a half minutes and just sasfhaghf), which also resurfaces the critique about how Joyful's battle system isn't as engaging as Painful's (Dingaling could've given Berny just a million health but what would you even be doing all that time besides mindlessly getting hits in?).
Still, in the end I loved both games. I loved the characters, I love the world surrounding them and I loved how absolutely grim and daunting (in a terrifying, adult-fear way) the story and situations got. You especially nailed the part of the gameplay of Painful being somewhat paranoid with danger being everywhere and resources being strict and limited (I really wish you would've mentioned Crack Ripper's ambush though!! That bit of the game is exemplifies just how punishing it can be if you choose to just sniff around willy nilly treating the game like a toy you explore around and which bears no consequence to your decisions).
Excellent analysis.
Thanks for make, Mr. Bomberguy
This is game important because its one of the few I know of that addresses complex trauma.I think that's why lisa the joyful is the way it is. The creator knew that trauma victims would play this and would like a shot at a happy ending, albeit a superficial one. My one gripe with the gameplay is that you have to either look up most of the character information or listen to the soundtrack. The characterizations are actually quite well developed and I would have never known, and it makes the devasting choices everyone has to deal with even more devastating when you know exactly what theyre thinking.
I want to be an indie dev.
LISA is my favorite game.
Going to start makin a game in the coming months
yee
Nathaniel Hanlon How’s that going? Good luck with your game!
I second the first comment
@@Yet.Another.Rapper.KiG.V2 I second the second comment
DO IIIIIIIIIIT!
So, how's the game coming along?
Im happy to see the lisa series get some of the love it deserves
I just really have to thank the Undertale fandom; if it wasn't for them, I don't think I ever would have known LISA existed. I may never have gotten such a wonderfully unique experience as I did with this trilogy.
I don’t think I really realized how much of a villain Brad was. I always thought of him as a well meaning guy with love to give and never really grappled with how entitled he felt to Buddy’s life.
lisa made me feel a really heavy profound sense of sadness seeing how abuse, addiction and trauma affects people and the morality of the game also made me feel just rlly heavy. it’s a tragic sort of thing. additionally, the issues and demons it tackles are incredibly real for a game taking place in an apocalyptic future making the pain just hit that much harder
Brad reminds me of one of my ancestors. I believe they lost their former family to the Holocaust and one of my grandparents were his "second chance", just like Buddy. If it weren't for their hope to redeem themselves, perhaps I would not have been born...
I love hearing people analyse and discuss the themes of video games they love, even if it's games that I've never played or ever will play. So...i'd never say no to more of this sort of content.
Nice one.
I have to clean my entire house tonight. Thank you for this perfect timing, for contributing something to pass the doldrums.
Someone really needs to do an in-depth story analysis and discussion on the Lisa series mythos and whatnot. The plot to these games is there, it's really strong, and it's almost ALL implied. But, as implications go, Lisa's implications are both incredibly dark and incredibly... thought-provoking. Weird way to put it, but the game does sorta make you think.
Maaaybe check squatch gaming official for that.
Honestly I found the last choice of Lisa the Joyful compelling, because while becoming a monster is a source of horror when you're following Brad, if you're a girl and faced with the prospect of being forced to continue humanity, when you don't want to? Becoming a monster to escape that fate would feel like a freeing choice. To me it felt like both choices, take the vaccine or become a monster, were bad endings for Buddy. It's still something I think about as a very good moment of dread. Buddy after her journey of killing, forced to choose between body horror and body horror
So watching this video reminded me that I played Lisa before I realised certain things about my family and I am now watching this video after realising said things, thank you very much for this video.
Sounds very interesting, and I love the analysis. Didn't pause the video as I currently have no time to play these kinds of video games, and actually I'd willingly have a thoughtful person "spoil" them for me rather than not even hearing from them.
i'm not sold on this analysis of buddy and her game. i loved joyful because of how callous buddy was, how bleakly nihilistic her killing spree became. not interested in friends, so no party besides ya boi rando. i'm not sure how you can talk about the limited or false choices that brad gets in painful express the character well but ignore the same application of this concept to buddy. her worldview is obviously much, much different, and it's shown wonderfully in the gameplay. it sounds to me like you just wanted lisa painful: 2 instead of lisa joyful, and that's fine. but they're separate games, and the distinctions between the games are what makes me love them so much as their own narratives, each inseparably and grotesquely paired to the other. and this is probably because each game is supposed to be VERY steeped in its own protagonist, who are each stubbornly themselves.
it would seem as though the joyful is actively trying to cut itself (katanas!!!) from the narrative of painful, but it wouldn't make too much sense if you did. and that's okay. this is the way human history builds/breaks, and people can choose to ignore sections they don't like, even within your own family. i found it twisted and hilarious how she kind of just waltzes into the greater backstory at the end because that's what happens when you cut away the fat of the land. also, i feel like you really glossed over the distinct endings that joyful provides us, and how these distinctions are nicely contrasted with the subtle differences in painfuls endings. it just shows how ultimately buddy gets more agency than brad was ever allowed because....she was different? younger? stronger? got away from a toxic household before it was too late? did DRUGS?! i think that what i like best about joyful is that it allows the player to reach the potential 'sweet happy ending', contextually anyway, but it does nothing to quell my anxiety about these unanswered questions.
thanks for the video!
Agreed that Joyful needs more love. When comparing the two sequels, Painful seem driven by Brad's Joy-driven desire to protect Buddy no matter who he kills, and Joyful seems driven by Buddy's Joy-driven desire for utter freedom by controlling everyone else. That naturally makes for two different games and thematic approaches. Also, I'd argue that Joyful's inclusion of the backstory surrounding Joy's development isn't as left-field as it may seem, since by the end of Joyful, we can see how this unique drug affects its users far more than other addictive drugs and personal trauma. It's not an out for personal responsibility, but it shows how Joy is directly tied to its users' monstrosity. If you can purge your body of Joy and leave it behind, you have a chance to be human again.
hbomber, you could talk about bread turning into toast as whimsical or seriously as you want, as long as you give it your in-depth review treatment. Your insights are always enlightening and a Joyful experience. Please continue to whatever strikes your fancy.
Do you have any opinions on the rpgmaker game OFF? That's definitely one of the other inspirations for Undertale and is a pretty unique experience
Cyanide Nightshade I was just thinking of that game! One of my favorites ever. Such a cool world, such good questions about existence and perception.
@@littlekeegs8805 similarly disturbing enemies too
Man I love OFF
I love this video but I disagree a bit about brad. I think brad did do some right things. Hiding Buddy was the right move. I mean you can see how fast the world goes crazy when she's found.
Any friend who doesn't like the LISA soundtrack is a friend you don't need in your life.
To be fair to that foolish soul, it is a bizarre soundtrack that can be odd to hear.
I don't like it.
Undertale is 10x better.
Sorry but the games depressing
Undertale is isn't
Yare Yare Daze "Depressing" isn't a synonym for "bad". Some of the best art in all its forms, paintings, music, films, and yes games, are incredibly depressing. Undertale was quite depressing for me too anyway, so by your logic it's terrible.
@@yareyaredaze2808 Jesus Christ, shut the fuck up abut Undertale already. We get it, you like fuzzy warm games with happy endings. I do to, those are great, but at least I have some respect for people who have different tastes. You're giving the Undertale fans who don't harass people and mass shit all over comment sections where they aren't needed a bad rep. Thanks.
And thats why I gave the Pope Lisa
I remember playing through Lisa: The Painful and completing it. I remember Brad saying "Did I do the right thing?" and then flopping over, and then credits.
I then remember just sitting there. Looking at the screen. No sense of accomplishment. No "yay, I beat it". Nothing. I just felt... bad. I felt hollow and depressed. I really felt like I became the monster.
Never before or since have I played a game that made me feel that way. Every game you play always gives a sense of accomplishment, even if the ending isn't a great one, you still feel like you accomplished something.
But with Lisa: The Painful, you really just kind of sit there. Nothing was solved. Nothing was saved.
I remember looking up Let's Plays of Painful and watching the ending, and many of the people playing did the same thing. They just kind of sat there, silent. Sometimes you'd hear a sigh, or a "uhh" like they're trying to think of something to say, and most of the time they can't.
What a fantastic game. Then the enhanced version came out with Work Harder being replaced and it was complete shit, 0/10, do not buy.
Just kidding - but losing that iconic track really was kind of disheartening. Still a very good game though.
As much as I appreciate this game and its nuances and tough choices, there is one simple and perhaps unreasonable belief of mine that makes it difficult for me to see some of the moral choices as gray. If the apocalypse happened and there was only one woman left on the planet, the answer to the question of that one guy on the cross Brad punches is "yes, we should absolutely die out." I can't help but respond this way for two reasons, the more emotional being that I don't think propagating humanity is enough to justify turning anyone into a brood mare or stallion against their will. The other reason is more literal and is a concern even if we consider that Buddy truly chose this and wasn't just trying to escape Brad's oppressiveness through any means necessary: even if the *ahem* "breeding program" was set up to minimize incest as much as possible, I don't think one mother could revive humanity. Eventually, what remained would be incredibly inbred and potentially too genetically similar to survive any subsequent challenges a wasteland would pose. Even then, I would argue all you're doing at that point is prolonging the inevitable by maybe a couple of decades at maximum, passing your own troubles onto the next generation knowing that there's zero hope for them to have a better life.
Actually, that last part isn't so different from what's happening now with climate change, is it? Oof.
I guess you could say that people (if given the chance) will try to salvage/sustain what little fleeting hope that's dangling right in front of them. Even if they have to make some questionable moral choices that would tarnish their overall psyche. I say this because humans are incredibly hardy/fickle creatures. Most of us won't just lay down and let nature take its course, but try to struggle against the odds even in the face of such insurmountable challenges. Sort of like how our fight/flight response would trigger for people who are trying to commit suicide. Even though a person willingly tries to commit suicide, their fight responses kick in desperately at the last second to prevent what's about to come.
However in LISA, given the debauchery of most men (if not all the male characters), have ulterior motives in mind and are just saying *Oh let's save the human race* to mask their hidden, perverted desires of having sex with a minor.
That being said, I do believe that one female alone is not enough to breathe new life into humanity. However, perhaps the sacrifices of a select few may buy humanity time enough to figure out alternative ways of sustaining the human population? (e.g., artificial insemination perhaps?). Although I highly doubt that post-flash Olathe has the technical infrastructure/human capital/knowledge needed to facilitate such operations. Although Yado's mutant lab may have something of use. But it's a thought anyway.
Furthermore, even expeditions to other regions outside of Olathe, where perhaps the flash has not severely affected the human populations as much. Perhaps peaceful integration with those communities and families will lead to natural breeding done the right way (as opposed to mindless rape/human propagation)
That last part about climate change I agree with ;D As a Masters student, it's one of my research topics of interest. The situation's actually exacerbating more now because of the current pandemic (Increase in Single-use-plastics/surgical masks polluting oceans), countries cutting back on their renewable energy targets because of the economic/financial slowdown/budgets being deducted from climate change pursuits, and being reallocated towards medical expenses/infrastructure, etc.
Yeah, I feel similarly. No one should be forced into a severe violation of bodily autonomy and personhood like that, ESPECIALLY a minor. The game ends up mixing its message in that Brad is arguably completely right. Realistically though I think the apocalypse is a vector to drive the story about trauma, make things as desparate as possible to amplify the tension and put the player in a position to understand the violence, but the plot hooks LISA uses end up going against the story it tries to tell about Brad's trauma and protector complex.
When I first started to watch this video years ago, I actually did stop and decide I would wait to play the games first. Two years later and I still can't beat Lisa. One day-one day I'll actually be able to watch this video of yours.
Dude really? Use a walktrough, no shame in it, your are missing in...
I have my hopes in you stranger!
@@vicentereyes8463 Thanks stranger! I did eventually finish Lisa, once I got the hang of it it wasn't THAT hard. I managed to make it through without ever using Joy, even.
Absolutely wonderful game :)
One of my favourite games covered by one of my favourite content creators
thank god for your upload, i was on the brink of ending my procrastination!
same here lol
I am in full support of you talking about Night In The Woods! I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
It's shit. There's your review.
How about an accurate one?
Writing? Dialogues? That it's the perfect game for millennials about millennials? It's not great, maybe, but good? Fuck yes.
A okay game with alright writing? FUCK YES.
A night in the woods is the most mediocre book steven king never wrote. I feel people connect with it because its a story about a disaffected youth with no future surrounded by people who're moving on and passing them by, and not because the mechanics through which that story is told are particularly strong.
How's that for accurate?
I think it should be wonderfully noted that I just noticed regarding LISA compared to other RPGs. Bosses are actually affected by status effects. Instead of being arbitrarily immune to them (Looking at you to Persona 5)
I guess the idea behind making bosses immune to status effects was to make sure you couldn’t break their challenge and make them too easy? (Same reason why insta-kills usually don’t work on bosses in RPGs either)
Problem is, Persona 5’s bosses are more… damage-spongey than actually hard
Something I like about the roulette mini game, it’s not a cutscene. Every time either your party member or the other person pulls the trigger, YOU have to hit the select button to make it happen. When your party member shoots himself, it’s because you FORCED them to kill themselves for your gain, which just makes losing him that much harder. Great detail.
Jokes weren't appropriate for this video, you made the right decision. If anything the few that were put in felt at odds with the subject matter.
Dissagree. The game theory one was both subtle and very, very obvious, and the fact it was used before all the fucked up shit happens didn't disrupt the tone.
Perhaps, yes. That was tangential to my main point in any case.
Lisa's a game with humour, and I feel that the highs in the game's tone make the lows hit home all the harder. I personally disagree with your views on the humour in the video, but I do understand where you're coming from.
Also, which warcraft do you hack? If you don't mind me asking.
Funny seeing you here
@Archvaldor's Warcraft Hacks heavy disagree, it is always possible to make a good joke about abuse and trauma (see: this video's source material)
Also (not that its important, but that since that in itself isn't important towards persuasion), I'm speaking as someone who is recovering from the long term abuse I received during childhood.
What you said between 8:00 and 11:00 are the reasons I am so fond of the game RimWorld. It starts out nice and simple, gathering resources and progressing, but you grow so attached to your colonists that losing one in a raid has that emotional impact on you. When someone gets an infection, or a disease spreads through your party, you get that feeling of urgency, that you need to save them. Not only are they your primary hunter, but they are a member of your colony. Death is permanent, and you will have to press on without them.
You know what I like, he may have spoiled it but it feel like he did. I've watched videos on game analysis and they spoil the whole game and all the difficult decisions with whether or not they affect anything. But this still left something for you experience and didn't feel really spoiler-y
I have to say, though 5 or 6 years late - that this video entranced me. Granted, I've played Lisa The Painful so understanding its' context made that section only more impactful than it would have been alone, i think this video was 100x better for having chosen to have a more serious conversation about Lisa than you might in other videos on other topics. I think the style suits your writing well
Oh, wow, this reminds me of an interesting tale. Would you like to hear it? Let's see.... Oh right! It all started with what I like to call, THE FLASH. I was sitting with my wife, god rest her soul, sipping on sweet lemon tea. I believe it was homemade by my sweet wife, God rest her soul. Or wait... Maybe she bought it from the store in a bottle. You know, like a plastic bottle? Well hold on now, that would be ridiculous to buy a bottle of sweet lemon tea, then transfer the contents into a glass. Why not just drink it from the bottle? I guess maybe so she could put ice in the glass? But then again, making tea homemade would be just as time consuming, if not more! That sneaky bitch... Anyway, I'll save that story for later! So, I'm sitting on my porch drinking sweet lemon tea. From a glass of course, ho ho! When suddenly... A great strangeness fills my body... Something was wrong... I've lived many years, and I've never felt something like this before. Do you know what it was? Yup! It was my rocking chair! That wooden son of a gun stopped rocking! So I looked down and realized a little rock had gotten caught beneath my chair! A rock under my rocking chair! What a day! I decided it was time for bed, I had had a little bit too much excitement for one day! Hoho! I slid into my jammies, brushed my teeth, and said my prayers. As I was climbing into bed I noticed my wife, God rest her soul, brushing her hair in the bathroom. As I peered across the hall my body swelled up with emotion... "Why can't I be married to an attractive woman?" "Is it me?" "My bank account?" I'm a tall guy, I workout forty minutes a week... Is that not enough? Now my neighbor at the time, Tom Forknight, was very short. His wife, Karen Forknight-Plateburger... Yeah, one of THOSE women. Well, she was more attractive than my wife. I'd say she was a soft six, whereas my wife was a hard four. What's the deal? I thought women liked tall men? Why was Karen with him? Anyway my horse of a wife, God rest her soul, crawled into bed next to me. She decided to leave the bedside light on so she could read her book. It was one of her romance novels again... Give me a break... As if I don't already feel inadequate enough... Not only do I have to compete with Tom, now I have to deal with these fictional hunks! Ay yai yai! At this point I had already suppressed the urges of intimacy, I rolled over and tried to sleep. Her bedside light was only of minor annoyance. I was able to drift off... Then I woke up to a big flash of light. That's about it. I can tell by the way you're walking away that you don't want to leave... If you really want to hear another story I'll tell you. Once upon a hot summer night. Sometime in July... Was it July? My local grocery store sells really good eggs in July. I don't know why. Do chickens operate better in heat? Fireworks maybe? I don't know. I don't want to get off topic. Point is, the eggs that Summer were marvelous! Anyway, my wife and I, God rest her soul, went to a BBQ that night. It was held at Dale Spooner's house. Well, his backyard... Conny Spooner doesn't want people in her home, I think she's just an uptight bitch. So at this BBQ I see none other than... That's right, Tom Forknight... Now earlier in the day my wife, God rest her soul, had made potato salad for the BBQ. Personally I hate potato salad, I'm a mashed kind of fellow. Hoho! So I sat in the TV room avoiding her till the BBQ. Once we were at the party, I made sure to distance myself from my dumb potato bitch wife. God rest her soul, I just didn't want anyone to think I would associate with someone that would bring a potato salad! Anyway, Tom and his above mediocre wife were already there. And get this, they brought a fruit salad! With whipped cream! The nerve of those Forknights! Needless to say I gave my wife, God rest her soul, a couple choice words About whipped cream! Versus potato salad! God dammit! Son of a bitch! A real tongue lashing! Geez, you're kind of smothering me. I'll talk to you later.
Yume Nikki helped me a lot when I was undergoing a deep depression. You were perfectly right about it -
I like how you tied it into Lisa as well. Nice job with the video. I think comparing Lisa to .flow would be effective as well.
those grasping hands and eyes in the dark are uncomfortably familiar to me. it's imagery that I've only ever seen mean one sort of thing.
Remember when Game Theory was a tangential learning show inspired by a video from Extra Credits? That was a fun time. And MatPat likes to brush off "I liked the old videos better" comments by inserting jokes about production value. Haha, you could even draw a parallel about surface-level analysis or something. Haha. Ha...
Aye yo can I have some fries with that salt?
The line was drawn with That theory, you know the one.
@@infinityheart_tm9270 That could be referring to a lot of game theory videos.
@@100billionsubscriberswithn4 sans
Can y'all just... shut up? I've seen a billion hot takes about game theory and they're all annoying. I don't care how you feel about it but y'all gaming hipsters really need to just let it go
Had to do a double take when I saw you in the special thanks credits for Definitive Edition.
I'm really late to finding this, but you did an amazing job with your presentation, explanation, interpretation, and overall review of this series. Thanks for taking the time to give us this, it was a pleasure to watch.
Thank you for this video. There are a scarce amount of videos on LISA, let alone 40 minute long videos. As someone who played LISA the first back before the sequels, it warms my heart to see it still effecting people.
So I had play painful and joyful before watching this and it made me get emotional but, i never cried. Strangely enough the mix of the editing of the footage and the extreme intelligence within your analysis brought me to tears. EVEN stranger is that I believe that it was a mix of happy and sad tears. To make a long story short i relate extremely well with brad and buddy and I always analyzed the games similarly to you but less verbose and interesting and within my own head of course. But your video made me realize that someone else understood how I felt about the game, game design wise. Idk to be mad or thankful you made me cry but I do know that this like every other video you have made is wonderful keep it up!
0:13 So it's like "Earthbound" meets "Berserk"?
ShadowPa1adin whatever floats your boat
....that's actually surprisingly accurate.
IIRC the creator described it as Earthbound meets Fist of the Northstar.
He originally wanted to make a game world swarming with quirky manly men like Fist of the Northstar or WWE, then he stopped and reflected on what a world without women would actually be like.
Nah it's DEFINITELY nothing like FONS
Fist of north star isn't depressing.
This is matches BERSERK COMPLETELY
That sounds interesting
"see you in, i don't know, 20 hours?"
*fifty hours later, my gullible completionist ass returns*
I've rewatched this five times I just love this video for no reason.
same
This is one of the games I have the deepest emotional connection to. Just watching the ending of the painful made me tear up and its been years since I've played
AW SHIT MAN
NEW HBOMB VIDEO
TIME TO GET HYPED AS FUCK
Edit after watching whole video: Wow, these games actually sound quite powerful and moving. I guess I'll have to check them out.
Envy Omicron They're great. These are those kind of games you finish and are left reeling from the experience.
What's more painful is that I've played through them 5 times and STILL DONT HAVE 100% FUCK YOU GAME WHY CAN MY PARTY MEMBERS NOT USE JOY FOR AN ACHIEVEMENT ABOUT THE MAIN CHARACTER NOT USING THEM AHHHHHH!
So instead of replaying the ENITRE game I'm gonna just leave my steam profile with 99% on it forever to piss everyone off
Buzz0 I did joyless on first run, it's easy.
I didn't even have a good team, armless Brad with Terry, Nern, Beastborn/Shocklord after that guy died, and I did look up things on the wiki occasionally.
The game's fairly easy honestly, I only had trouble with Wally (because I fought him right after getting TNT which is supposedly early lol) and some mutants, though I didn't fight Satan.
Unless you meant The Joyful, but joyless isn't an achievement there. Still easy do that after a patch added some OP abilities for Buddy lol, I only used it like 2 times on Rando.
Envy Omicron He didn't even mention how funny the painful can be
Honestly? I think LTJ does just as good of a job as LTP. LTJ is *supposed* to feel mindless, Lisa is a character born in the apocalypse, and they act like it. Life for you is supposed to be less challenging, you don’t have the same morality as those who experienced the world before.
this vid literally popped up in the most random manner in my dash but I instantly clicked on it because THANK YOU. there is so little content about LISA. so few playthroughs n barely no analysis.
I'm a bit sad I haven't seen this before but even years after playing the LISA series this vid still hits home. I really love the series n it still influences my own creative projects. the soundtrack is so unique n brillaint (even though I can't listen to every track all the time. or even very loud :') ). The way LISA portrait the cycle of abuse was inspiring n I'm glad smn like you made such an eloquent n great video about the series.
you did it justice.
thank you
I like the "subtle" jabs at GT
You're like a much better version of GT
You:
-Actually make LONG, IN DEPTH, and DETAILED videos
-You focus on QUALITY OVER QUANTITY
-You talk about games that are, yaknow ACTUALLY INTERESTING TO TALK ABOUT *cough cough however many infinite FNAF theories he made*
-You talk about more than just games which is always a neat thing to have variety
-You don't grasp at straws and pull the tiniest details out of some hidden pocket in your ass so you can make more content and thus more money or some crap *cough basically EVERY MARIO THEORY HE MAKES*
Plus instead of focusing on hokey "jokes" and bits that detach from the video and just kinda fill up time because yaknowwithoutthemthevideoswouldbelike4minuteslong and howyagonnagetthegoodadrevenuethen, you actually focus on what you're talking about.
I don't mean to compare you to game theory because obviously you're very different from it, but I do wish you had more subs and views because you really deserve them.
You should really get that cough checked out, man.
That's just, like, your game theory, man.
You're attacking a channel aimed at children.
You're mad at a thing children like.
That's sad bro.
comparing an analysis channel to an entertainment channel , the salt is very strong within you
Don't wanna dogpile with the other replies, but it is worth noting that hbomb is making the video as a critique and discussion about the game, while Game Theory is using the game as a medium to give a lecture on an out-of-game concept, or just to explore the game's lore - both for the purpose of entertainment at the end of the day. The approaches there aren't attempting to meet the same end, and to pretend they are seems disingenuous.
You are tearing me apart, Lisa!
In this case, I think it was Marty tearing Lisa apart.
Funny how you start talking about the strategic importance of status effects while showing footage of Fly inflicting all possible status effects in one attack. Him and Birdie are almost comically broken, they can perfect the final optional boss easily. That's actually one of my biggest complaints about the game; it's really easy to work around once you figure it out. You can avoid cutscenes and fights by using the truck keys, big choice moments are pretty close to save spots so you can switch out your party for a shitty character or hide all your equipment and do it again, you can get everything in the karate village then get TBFP to blow it up, and there's plenty more but I'll stop.
That being said Brad's fight against Rando's army is a better example, by adding new attacks you can't help but try that are also viable in combat. The cry option is great foreshadowing if you've been fighting alot of mutants.
Very much this.
I think the default difficulty should had been pain mode, but with less save points. The idea of save points being a valuable finite resource was really cool, but the save points were way to common.
The whole dilemma of "should I reset my game to possibly get a better outcome" becomes painfully obvious when the last save point was only a map away.
But having pain mode as the default difficulty, with a very scarce, finite save points would really punish players who try to cheat the "big choice moments" by losing like 30 minutes of progress.
The whole tension, and dilemma of choosing between your items, or your teammates becomes almost insincere knowing in the back of your head you could just reload the game, swap your team out with team mates you don't use, and really not lose much.
and I really do think the save points right before you encounter buzzo should just be removed.
Overall, I think the game tries really hard to create these really difficult dilemma questions, but by pure virtue of it being a video game with save states, kind of eliminates any sort gripping decisions. Lisa doesn't really punish players who reset the game to get a better outcome, and I think that's really important in a game that has a lot of meaningful decisions. You lose like at best, a few minutes.
In area 3, the whole area had only like 3 save points. and it created some REALLY gripping moments *in joyless run. I just wish there was more of that.
But I think the removal of save points would annoy players who don't play the entirety in one sitting. Perhaps it's just in the medium of games, and the idea of scarce, finite saves is a bad idea. But a lot of lisa's strengths would had been magnified if given finite, scarce save point.
Hide.. Items?
@@hadorean to be fair the game could just auto-save every moment.
Funnily enough, those two party members were supposed to be handicapped by Joy Addiction in game, but thanks to a programming fuck-up that never happens normally. In fact, there’s a bunch of broken programming in the game that, when fixed, makes the game a lot harder (some party members that were meant to be Joy Addicts actually feel the effects, certain enemies have perma-death attacks are too low of a priority for them to ever be used, a couple of unused mutants exist that were party members).
Yes. You say the right things, all of them. I was giving a thumbs up throughout entire video, directly at my screen.
I recommend you look into *the famicom game Sweet Home*, in case you haven't yet. It's a bit clunky to play today, but I feel its approach to item scarcity made for something very compelling in some similar ways to Lisa (and in some different ways too!). It's essentially the first survival horror game, but its a turn-based RPG with random battles, and its setting is a single haunted mansion. It would eventually inspire the first Resident Evil game, which was initially supposed to be a remake of it, but they lost the rights to the license and so made something new instead.
Sweet Home has no money, no towns and shops to buy items from, no Inns or camps to heal your party at either; your only healing comes from a finite number of potions you can find throughout the haunted mansion. The death of any of your teammates is permanent. Your teammates even have unique abilities, so losing them is a really significant setback that requires you to find new things to make progress, and makes your path forward all the more treacherous.
Sweet Home, Lisa, and older survival horror games in general are big inspirations for my game design, I've been working on making a kind of survival horror RPG with this sort of scarcity of resources and somewhat complex combat. Been working on this for years now!
It's a real challenge though. When trying to make a battle system more complex, it is very easy to end up with a kind of redundant complexity, things that add "options" to combat without really adding meaningful decision-making. Another trap is crafting strategies into your battles that you mean your players to discover, but which players don't really have any reasonable means to get to on their own, without just telling them about it. This is especially challenging if a lot of your enemy encounters are "unique" and not recurring monsters, which means players have a reduced opportunity to apply things they've learned to other battles.
There are so many pitfalls like that, so many little design quirks that make designing genuinely fun and interesting turn based combat battles a challenge! I have a lot of respect for designers who could make it work, and Austin Jorgensen is definitely one of them.
I like happy endings in stories like this. I really appreciate the idea that Buddy gets one, especially because there's a feeling that she represents the promise of Lisa that her father destroyed.
"Crictically dysfunctional perspective"
That, my friend is the the PERFECT way to describe game thyroid.