Bloodborne Is Genius, And Here's Why
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ย. 2016
- This video is a light retrospective on the development of the Souls series, focused largely on what in particular makes Bloodborne special.
My Twitter: / hbomberguy
My Patreon: / hbomb
Music:
Incompetech.com
Bloodborne OST
The Zelda OOT OST
Some sad piano music I googled
If you don't recognise these, it's because I slowed them down 35%:
El Tigre - She Swallowed Burning Coals
Carpenter Brut - Invasion A.D.
Carpenter Brut - Paradise Warfare
Carpenter Brut - Turbo Killer
El Tigr3 - Die Cosmonaut
El Tigr3 - Heist
Mega Drive - Narc
M.O.O.N. - Quixotic
Magic Sword - In The Face of Evil
Magic Sword - The Way Home - เกม
Bloodborne is second only to muppets Christmas carol in its depiction of victorian dystopia
You. You have big brain
Puppets x bloodborne?
I would say number one since it gets the accent range down perfectly
I think you just explained why someone I used to know was *OBSESSED* with both of these things. It was so irritating.
This is the best thing I’ve read all day thank you very much
I wasn’t a muppets kid but guess who’s gonna be a muppets adult
You mentioned that the sound design is really good. I am happy to announce that it was personally made by Tommy Tallarico in collaboration with Hideo Miyazaki. In fact Tommy inspired the development of Bloodborne as well as Elden Ring.
His mother is very proud.
It was actually so cool tommy just sat down one day and started making sfx when George RR Martin burst into the room to beg to write a story about fingers
@@matthewpinn4its true I was three of the fingers
He won an eigth Guiness world record for his work on the game. Also, he's the one who suggested the idea of a "hard sword game" to Hidetake Miyazaki in 2007, just after rewatching his MTV "Cribs" episode. Actually, well he was at it, he made the sword-swing sound effect--and therefore wants 100 Million Billion Trillion dollars from the game. Similar thing with Tony Hawks. The real Tony Hawks. Tommy made his skateboard grinding sound effect.
i heard he held hands with shigero miyamoto while making it, but the problem was that, at night, he needed to go to the bathroom
Tommys sources are just:trust me bro
I think something that doesn't get enough attention is how well Gascoigne is designed specifically to teach you how to use your tools properly. He has, until he turns into a monster, your weaponry, your move set, and he kicks the shit out of you cause he fights _super agressively_. He's a mirror image of what you have to be to win, until he turns monster.
Gascoigne serves as a grim warning and introduction to your fate as a hunter. He’s a cautionary tale without telling you how to avoid it
Or you can just cheese him by having him get stuck behind the gravestones and only need to dodge his bullets
@@nessie6899 Not exactly. Hunters who dream can't succumb to beasthood. This is why the PC hunter can use things like beast blood pellets, the beast roar tool, the beast claw weapon, and beast's embrace rune without actually going feral. It's also why you can kill beasts all night long without so much as growing a single fang.
I'd just like to know where the fuck he got his shotgun pistol that deals 50% of my hp in a single shot. Unless I have 50 bloodtinge and come packing bone marrow ash boosted heat, bullets tickle enemies and the blunderbuss pellets do even less, it's more like a soft massage to the enemies.
@@joaogomes9405 your guns arent meant to do damage, theyre a parry tool
Bloodborne was the first game I enjoyed after I stopped gaming in like 2010. I genuinely tell people who don't even play videogames about the removal of shields and the rally mechanic and how it changed the game in such an amazing way by encouraging aggressive, rhythmic gameplay. I wonder how many of them were just waiting for me to shut up about something as esoteric gameplay mechanics.
Their loss 🤷
Me. I was.
Have you tried Sekiro or Elden Ring? I think they also captured and iterated a lot of the magic of bloodbourne
that depends! I for one love hearing people talk about things they enjoy, regardless of my knowledge on the topic
you're ignoring the fact that "shift to a more aggressive playstyle" toned down the complexity of the combat in a big way and since then fromsofts games have been entirely reaction based fast paced button mashers. that doesn't make BB inarguably better, it just means you prefer that type of game.
In ds1 and 2 positioning used to be really important, you always had to think about where you are and where you'll go next. you can't just rollspam into infinite s because there's no recovery times and it costs like a 1/10th as much stamina. the weapons and bosses are so intricately designed you can consistently dodge specific attacks with well placed swings and get an extra hit in at the same time. All of this has been missing since BB, and it's only gotten worse with ER where you get punished for getting behind bosses and the backstab is so nerfed to shit it just isn't viable.
As someone said in Steam:
Dark Souls is about badass overpowered protagonists... except that you're no protagonist.
Pretty decent analogy right there if I say so my self.
@El-ahrairah Yeah man, same. I always heard so much about how Dark Souls was "the hardest game ever" and stuff like that, only to finally get into the series (after playing bloodborne, no less) and realize they are challenging, yes, but the rules are pretty clear and it respects the player's intelligence and interest in exploring and reading info the game clearly provides.
I could never compare it to those rage games like I Wanna Be The Guy and such. Even though DS doesn't do much hand-holding at all, it's not actively trying to frustrate and make a fool out of the player.
What the fuck? Dude, words have fucking meaning.
Spammy action rpgs are not challenging?
Nier Automata: Insane difficulty setting would like to disagree.
@El-ahrairah What he means is that no one really seems to understand what "protagonist" and "antagonist" even mean, and to quote a famous movie "I do not think that word means what you think it means".
To explain further, the protagonist is the focusing character of a story. That is the person OR group that the story is focused on, as you are not limited to only one. An antagonist is the opposing force to the protagonist, and it can be either a person, a force, an obstacle to over come, or, really, anything.
As an example, you can have the standard story, such as lets say, Superman, who is the protagonist, and whatever villain he's up against, the antagonist. You can have something like, lets say the newest thing out, FF7, because it's the freshest thing on my mind right now, in terms of a group being the protagonist, and Sephiroth the antagonist. Even Cast Away, Stars only a single man as the protagonist, and his struggle is survival, the antagonist is nature itself, or the struggle to survive. You could even have a story of a person struggling to overcome their own depression or any other mental illness one may suffer as a example as a single person being the protagonist and antagonist, struggling to fight themselves.
So in that manner, the OPs comment comes of and just wrong, incorrect, because your character is the protagonist, you are the focus of the whole game, you are the central point in which the narrative follows.
Same with midgetydeath, whose statement is also just incorrect, in that he literally gave the wrong description of what a protagonist and antagonist is, bringing it down to just "protagonists try to keep things the same, while the antagonist try to change things." So I guess the Fellowship in Lord of the Rings are the antagonist then because they are now trying to change the world by destroying the evil of Sauron? Does that make any sense?
I apologize for the long post, but there was just a LOT wrong here.
Darksouls takes the “let the kid touch the stove” approach to player teaching.
And the burn is your time and ego
pop rocks dark souls got me to doubt my abilities so much, that I was scared to face pinwheel because I thought I would die to him. The amount of relief I got when I took about 1/8th of his health with every hit made my day.
I did touch a stove, and clothing iron at one point in my life, and also love every souls game, so you might be onto something.
@@deakkristof1818 I was the kid who said, "I won't touch the stove, that sounds like a bad idea and the fact that nobody wants me to might be a sign" and I'm the kid who quit out on Dark Souls in the Undead Burg to just watch other people instead. So OP is definitely on to something.
I think that might be the reason why i love it. I played DS3 for the first time (a year ago) without any knowledge as to how to play it. That resulted in spending a couple hours in first location (the high wall of Lothric) hahah, but i loved it non the less.
Elden Ring's guard counter seems like a capstone on the slow development of fun-shielding. By giving you an attack that looks very powerful and does more damage that you only get by successfully blocking, it is actively baiting every shield-user into attacking immediately instead of waiting for obvious safe openings. You are being drawn into taking risks, with the prize of crisp AV feedback and obviously more damage, and eventually start seeing the posture-break counters which are hugely damaging and very satisfying. That way even if you're playing defensively, you're actively engaged with the enemy.
And secretly it's also baiting you to fall for the 70000 attacks that look shieldable but aren't so you die for trying to do something that seems logical and fun instead of memorizing the correct answer.
@@DarkDragon2344 People who wank ER's combat typically don't play games with actually great combat. ER's combat is fine overall, but it is full of "We designed it to be counter intuitive because Miyazaki-san thinks its good" design, combined with "The game got rushed out, but we're FROMSOFT, so all the missing stuff will get played up as a feature."
I'm just glad that AC6 came out as a complete game and isn't rife with cut content, and is also getting updates.
@hakageryu-hz7jz what is counter intuitive about ER's gameplay?
@@d_fendr6222 Brother I don't know what to tell you but intentionally skewing and hanging attack timings and having inconsistent tells as to what defensive options will work on a given attack is dictionary definition counter intuitive. It is designed so you can't intuit it, it is counter-intuitive.
@DarkDragon2344 I gotcha, I was just curious that's all.
14 minutes into a 7 year old video, but the question “Is it possible to play a game wrong?” has a huge place in my heart.
I always had a way of playing games, which was more of a grindy, slower, lore-focused playing method. My best friend was more of a middle-ground grinder-completionist-style player, which exacerbated my own style, and it caused us both to have a great time sharing RPG profiles with each other. However, when I met my wife, she was more of a “Story Games Only” type of player, and she preferred using walkthroughs. At the time, I could have died on the hill of “she isn’t struggling through the game enough, therefore she isn’t experiencing it correctly”, and we got into semi-fights about it where I felt like I was defending my whole way of living life. Eventually, though, we ended up playing Final Fantasy Lightning Returns together, which doesn’t really have a “grind” option to it, due to it being a completely timed game, and it kind of broke that habit for me. After that I had a much more profound appreciation for the amount of time that I had put into video games, but I was also kind of mad that I had even done it to begin with, and I realized that I was completely wrong about people “playing games incorrectly”. I give so much more respect to people who genuinely LIKE the games that they play, because I just want to be that person now.
TL;DR: I don’t think there is any wrong way to play a game, even though I used to think that way.
As someone with very limited time and a progressive muscle disorder, there's nothing I'm interested in less (from gaming) than challenging mechanics!
This is a great point, but I would disagree a little bit. While I agree, if someone is having fun with a game, and other ways of playing the game isn't fun for them, then they are playing the game right. But I think this video brings up a good point about playing games wrong. There are times you may not be enjoying a game that much, but it could just be that you're approaching the game wrong and could be approaching it in a way that you enjoy. It really depends on the person
Wasn’t expecting Lightning Returns to come up in this comment section. Didn’t play beyond the opening myself: I was looking forward to it on a XIII marathon, but once I actually got there, that premise immediately gave me crippling time anxiety. I should give that another go someday.
Then again, I’d probably want to replay XIII-2 first, and that is a very love-hate game for me. This is coming from someone who unironically enjoys XIII-1, but really, loving that game makes XIII-2 worse.
I have a theory that bloodborne is more fun for newbies because the rally system engenders what i like to call "Mad Bastard Energy". Basically that insanely agressive "C'mon if you think you're 'ard enough" attitude you get in east London pubs on a match day. It' s seriously impressive.
This single comment just made me boot up my PS4
This comment slaps
you really did not have to explain it, but you did and that made it way funnier, thank you this was a great comment 🙏
YOU ARE SO RIGHT MY FRIEND
Bruh, Bloodborne has way harder bosses than all Dark Souls and Sekiro.
Bloodborne: Let's teach 'em how to dodge
Sekiro: Bitches gotta parry.
dark souls:use your shield!
Cringe bruh
@@indigocarrott5917 its a joke dude
I know but it doesn’t work like that
@@indigocarrott5917 i know that it doesnt work like that i just wanted to make a joke ok? can we end it here?
I never realized how you can tell mimics apart with the position of the chain on them in ds1 but I thought it was a really brilliant and subtle way to give you a chance to tell
Yep and related, Demon's Souls always focused on studying your enemies to figure out the best way to deal with them especially the bosses (who usually have notable lacks in one area to work with ie Vanguard struggles to hit you if you're close enough so you can avoid a lot of its attacks easily or just incinerate it from a distance) while DS as a series seems more about learning the mechanics and how to work around them, more straight forward as a result but both games do reward observing things properly.
I tried Bloodborne a while back because I loved the dark souls series so much, and bounced off of it because I was far too methodical with the combat. I took things too slow and didn't have very much fun. This video inspired me to come back to it and try again with a different perspective, and to play more aggressive. All I can say is thank you. You are the reason I got to truly experience such a work of art. I have never fallen in love with a world more so than this game.
DID YOU BEAT IT?!?
@@brain_xiv not yet. I don't have much time nowadays, but a little a day.
@@alholz7836 ah that's completely fine, masterpieces shouldn't be rushed. I hope you get to finish it!
@@brain_xiv update: making my way through still. made it to upper cathedral ward.
@@brain_xiv I just finished it. What a game.
You can't just spam attack.
*laughs in saw cleaver*
*Looks at every dark sword player in DS3*
Hehe.
Hermès From Quebec. But my french isn't why I messed up my spelling, I just casually screwed up one evening.
Laughs in blades of mercy
@@emmacoumbe8393 looking for this reply
@the bathwater gave me hepatitis c q
The Yahar’gul area music is especially chilling when you realize it isn’t ambient, it gets louder when you get out of the Chapel and is coming from a certain direction, it is canonically what your character is hearing in game, there is a choir singing loudly somewhere in the village.
When I realised that I shit myself. This game is terrifying
Idk why but that place makes me actually panic, I always rush that part of the game
Bean Water probably because up until that point everything is a cakewalk but then all of the sudden everything bitch slaps you and then shoots blood spikes at you from a mile away or triple teams you with 3 different fighting styles.
@@iconicDeya No it isnt even that, ofc that sucks and I hate bell ringers with a passion, but the atmosphere is... unsettling to say the least. I was standing still and looking something up after clearing the area today, and idk why but I felt really uneasy and anxious.
Bean Water bell ringers are horrible, the only saving grace of the chalice dungeons is that their summons die when the woman dies. We don’t have that luxury in the main game.
One benefit I think blood vial farming has is that it pretty much forces you back to central Yarnham, where if you talk to NPCs, dialog changes as you progress through the story.
But in general, I like the Estus mechanic more.
And Elden Ring made it even better with defeating groups of enemies to get back charges, even though it only works in the overworld. But now that I think about it, I guess they just had to make it that way due to the open world nature of the game, otherwise it would've somewhat break the pace of exploration.
One time I was watching my friend play through this game for the first time, and he was fighting Ludwig. It was very difficult, but at one point Ludwig went for one of his big stage one forward attack sequences, and my friend just said "fuck it". He was pissed enough that he got aggressive and committed to a huge powered-up swing when he got an opening... And that's how he derailed Ludwig's whole attack and made him stagger by smacking him upside the face with a perfectly-timed Ludwig's Holy Blade.
It was minor, but it may have been one of the coldest moments I've seen in a game in awhile. Bro really said "NUH UH" with a bigass sword.
Giving gascoignes daughter her dead sisters bloody white bow is a moment I'll never forget, the way she started crying I genuinely felt so bad, I turn away to go about my travels and I start to hear her laughing saying how pretty it is and that it's all hers, i stood in disbelief for about 15 minutes. Sent chills up my spine
That's one of the most unnerving encounters in the whole game. Worst of all is the fact that it doesn't activate until the Blood Moon is revealed, which causes the rest of the "normal" people in the city to basically vanish; it makes you wonder if that girl was really a person or something else. Something worse.
@@thejokercjdr This is exactly why I don't play bloodborne much anymore. The world is too depressing to play in.
To make you more depressed, she gets eaten by the maneater boar in the sewer if you send her to Oeden Chapel.
"woeful child
eventually beware of liar"
I felt the same, that's crazy actually.
My favourite section of Bloodborne is when the Blood Moon rises, and you enter Yahar'gul. From the top of the area, you see all of the Amygdala's clutching to the buildings, and everything smeared with a red, bloody, hue. Arianna gives birth to a deformed celestial baby in the sewer, the old lady goes mad, Adella grins to herself creepily, the skeptical man grows silent, the Oeden Chapel Dweller wishes it to be over, the imposter Iosefka tries to ascend, and fails, the Yharnamites in their homes grow silent as the weight of the entire universe crushes their tiny minds. It's the part of the game, when you realise that it's all, much, much worse than you thought, and you're alone. It's the part of the game when I realised that everything was fucked.
It was at that moment bloodborne transformed from Van Helsing with a dash of lovecraft to full Lovecraft.
Fuck
That shit blew my mind after beating rom. Thought the game was over and i was like "Oh fuck this is just the tip" after seeing all the amygdalas EVERYWHERE
Insight is one of the coolest mechanics of Bloodborne imo. Just that unadulterated fear of realizing that this entire time, you've been surrounded by monsters you couldn't see
And you are the only chance of the town...
shield bad: the video essay
Elden Ring was my first "Souls" game. I spec'ed up a Samurai (coz Samurai are cool right?) and as soon as the opportunity arose, I used two katanas (so there's no blocking). Sure, I died a LOT and, 200hrs in, I've still not actually completed it, but it's been a hell of a lot of fun!
Trying Dark Souls Remaster after this, it was very hard to adjust to using a shield. I ended up dropping that game fairly quickly. Sekiro and Bloodborne on the other hand... they may be punishing as hell but they're so good and I keep coming back for more!
I'll probably revisit DS Remaster once I've finished them, and play it completely differently to how it tries to teach you to play it.
if you can't block with a shield maybe try using magic from afar? Dunno giving ideas. or maybe having some faith.
Parry is king
@@PikaStu666 Ironically, blocking is at least more engaging in Elden Ring due to the addition of block counters.
@@ekki1993 Since then I've completed Demon Souls Remaster on PS5 - I played as a character that used magic as well as a big sword. I used a shield a bit more in this game, but ultimately I liked to hang back and fire magic. Still haven't revisited ER, I fancy starting a new run focusing on magic. Maybe I'll learn to block and parry this time too :D
I was introduced into the 'soulslike' genre with Sekiro. The sense of accomplishment that came with beating the game made playing other games seem hollow. It also made playing Shadow of War (which I picked up after Sekiro) trivial.
My issue with "soulslike" is that the combat can feel like it's turn based with extra steps. I love this podcast called LeagueCast, and one of them summed up souls games well. "You dodge when it's the enemies turn to attack, and you attack when it's your turn". This has elements of aggression; such as parrying but those aren't garunteed as HBomberGuy pointed out during this video. This is why Seikero and Bloodbourne are the best from soft games (I'm currently playing Elden Ring but it suffers from the same issues as dark souls, like they didn't learn from the other two?) as it becomes much more about skill expression and fluidity. Flow state is important in these two, where as the rest of the souls likes don't have that.
I played Seikero after Ghost of Tsuhima and found it a joy, because it's a very similar parry mechanic. The issue with bloodbourne is it runs like shit compared to modern games.
I would love for the other souls games to learn from these two moreso than Dark/Demon. Fallen order has the spark of it, and themsia seems promissing.
@@bajsunge1462 that's a fair point. Elden Ring feels very dark souls 1 in it's combat formula, that more turn based strategy. Boss attack sequence turn, my attack sequence turn. With parryability being unknown until you attempt it on each attack.
My issue is the formula had such evolution of combat and I missed the Bloodborne and seikero combat. I'm going through Elden Ring and it feels very stale, combat wise at least, compared to the innovations of From's other works.
I would say it's a fair criticism of the game, and it's not something brought up because people really enjoy the dark souls combat paradigm. I really love the faster paced application of stamina management, and it's unfortunate Elden Ring didn't give you the option to play it like seikero or Bloodborne, instead lending itself only to the core souls gameplay model. Albeit the magical spells are really cool even if they aren't that engaging. Most games spells aren't engaging though to be fair.
Just finished Sekiro, that games fights are the most realistic fights ever in a video game. Two of the earliest bosses reward you for being overly aggressive and ditching turn based combat. Waiting on enemies is a choice but there is one mandatory turn based fight, if you wanna call it that, it's more like a puzzle. Amazing game for fans of very challenging action.
I have a feeling you would like Hades, Tate
@@zackarysullivan9019 I've had my eye on it, but haven't jumped in quite yet. My friend group has been split on it so far.
The irony of saying "what does a rhythm game have to do with a [Soulslike]"
Then, a couple years later, in walks Sekiro
I've always felt that there were weird similarities between Souls and rhythym games, Sekiro is absolutely the most obvious expression of that. Both genres are all about flowing gameplay and pattern recognition.
soulsborne and other games that have similar combat has been always played like a rhythm game for me, its like a dance with how the flow of combat works
@@tsarXadam ah I can't remember the name of the video but there is a video about the study of the music of Souls games and shows that the music actually helps you time attacks and enemies (bosses specifically) move in time with their music and such and a very stand out boss feels so weird (the Dancer of the Boreal Valley) because they actually changed the pacing of the music. Most bosses have a normal 4 beat song but the dancer actually had a 3 beat song which is why it is so challenging, it fundamentally changes the pattern and timing you have built up
@@kobegreen7527 and that is fully intentional, too. Its not like they randomly used that different beat like they forgot, you are fighting a Dancer, someone who is a master of rhythm.
Otherwise I wouldn't even necessarily credit those games in particular for something that practically exists in every single game to some degree.
Its also why I'd rather have a game playing at a steady 30 FPS than aiming for 60 with frequent dips. I might not be able to tell the difference just looking at the screen but I do notice if it throws off my timing.
@@Nirual86 In 2021 how are you struggling to hit 60 frames. I get mad when my computer drops below 144
Regarding the healing mechanics in bloodborne, it's worth noteing that the system ties into the story. If you run out of vials, you are FORCED to hunt for more. You become the bloodthirsty monster you claim to be hunting
This game is a masterpiece
kinda like estus being fire in dark souls.
Don't forget dark souls your drinking fire
tbh bloodborne is just dark souls with guns.
@@sathlasdalaraynidridlendar6875 eh crappy guns
charlie hart yeah but I hope if we get a bloodborne 2 they get rid of that as it’s my least favorite part of the game espeacially when fighting bosses
I remember playing the first game as a mage. ...Without knowing what the lock on button was. I remember having to dodge around bosses at point blank range and shooting the spells by aiming with the controller.
The CONTROLLER.
So I put the catalyst in my offhand and sword in the other, and focused on using mainly shotgun type spells while dodging and hitting occasionally with the sword.
When I found out that their was a lock on button I immediately went to the soul spear and thought it was completely op that you could just one shot mob enemies from a meter away, and was literally so happy.
"To my recollection, Ludwig's Holy Blade is the only weapon with a second R2 attack."
*Saw Cleaver, with a second R2 **_and_** a charged third R2, has entered the chat*
I'm pretty sure the saw spear is seen with its second R2 in this video
We got a 3rd heavy attack in bloodborne before gta6
That is such a brave way to pronounce “Gascoigne”
HJHunters gascowagne: rhymes with lasagne
gas-coin, the only way
Gas-colone
Gas-qwaaaaah. It's the sound you make when you die to him over and over again.
He said it a weird way then said it the correct way 30 seconds later lol, he be trollin
*Being handed a bowl of good soup*
"This is missing something..."
*Sticks gun into soup*
"Now THIS is gourmet"
The best way to eat your soup :)
*slurps soup from gun*
More like GOREmet amirite?
Finally, some good fucking food
Now you're thinking like an American!
This is an interesting video but, I really don't understand why every souls review made by fans always ends up falling in the realm of "this is the right way to play", "the devs had an specific idea for how this game should be played" or "this way is boring".
The series takes direct inspiration from MMORPG games. It's meant to be played however way you prefer.
Sure, the first games did a terrible job balancing things for all play styles, and it took until Bloodborne for them to learn how to design movement, but it was still made with the obvious intent of playing it whichever way you prefer.
The only thing I can concede as things that actually are the correct way to play and meant to be used by everyone is the parry mechanics.
Tunnel vision, I like hbomb but his ideas on the Souls Series are a huge miss and seem more of a "This is what the games decisions taught ME, so everyone must have had this experience" which is just silly.
"Given the opportunity, gamers will optimize the fun out of the game"
-Soren Johnson (designer of CIV IV and Off-world Trading Company)
There IS a wrong way to play a game, where you sacrifice your fun for efficiency, and it's a designer's job to protect the player from themselves, which is why games likd DOOM deliberately stack the game in such a way that the most effective play style (running, shooting, ripping and tearing; all in the thick of it) is also the most fun.
There's a satisfaction in using a sniper rifle to surgically dismantle the enemy, but DOOM's not the game for that (instead I recommend games like Sniper Elite, Hitman's sniper contracts, and playing New Vegas with a hunting rifle)
@@alecchristiaen4856 I mean: Kind of. I agree that some games have a more focused way to deal with progression and other design features, but I still think Soulsborne is a genre meant to allow more openness.
Like: Yeah, cheesing the game through sniping "isn't" the way the game is meant to be beaten(quotation marks due to the fact that, like poisonous bogs, Miyazaki loves adding bs dragon enemies that require the use of a bow and an arrow to beat), but it's still encouraged for players to pick one among the rpg trifecta, when deciding their path.
Of course, probably due to FromSoft originally lacking the proper knowledge that'd allow them to properly add the 3 in a balanced way, this trifecta was severely broken in the first games of the series, with magic being considered easy mode and rogue being cracked mode but, as we can see, they have been getting better at it.
You said it perfectly. Like its why I either love or hate his videos. He's great at making a compelling argument but sometimes he commits to a premise that is just fundamentally flawed. Like, you can't just say your opinion is invalid because I had a different experience.. Or you sound like a dingus
@tasteflavored If you flip flop between love and hate, it just means you hate when he talks about something you know and love when he doesn't. The actual quality of his discussion stays the same. Garbage usually
Okay I know this is about Bloodborne but as an animator, that footage of Lords of the Fallen HURT ME.
Every one of those swings was so methodical and slow but there was absolutely no weight behind them. The character standing upright and really only using the bare minimum of the rest of their body to take the swings, the fact the speed remained almost completely flat with little acceleration and no anticipation or overshoots. Good god. I HOPE that was the result of them having to rush the project before they could finish the attack animations because if someone thought that was acceptable then I do not want to see their portfolio.
“Bloodborne, the game about injecting yourself with increasing amounts of a dubious liquid, is itself a gateway drug”
Just incredible
How are there no comments
Drink dat blood
@@kayligillard2050 This is not a gateway comment.
@@ineedabetterpfp2485 lmao im dead
Bro you definitely win when it comes to the way to say that the comment wasn’t good enough to incline people to indulge more or do much more than give it a like, without saying so challenge.
"Bloodborne is great, so lemme talk about other games for a half hour" I unironically love these videos
Nightcoremoon lol yeah I completely forgot this was about bloodborne until about thirty minutes in when he finally started talking about shields and guns. Just a testament to how good the video was though
The video was more about how blood borne affects the player and what it does to the player rather than being mostly about the game itself although he did extensively analyze this game just not a big in-depth review
Right I been skipping till the bloodborne parts lol
This video essay is the Tim Rogers video essay of Bloodborne video essays.
it’s essentially the Abstract of the essay.
I never got into Bloodborne, Demon Souls etc but I do love the fandom around them. The sheer love for those games and how they got so well known they are practically their own game-category now is just so fun to watch :)
Also mentioning Shadows of Mordor and Vampire the Masquerade bc I wanna see what you meant at the end there :D What's gonna happen?
You should consider giving the games a try if you are even remotely interested. Due to the way the games have been marketed and the way the community and gaming press talks about them, I was intimidated by the games for a long time and never gave them a chance. I eventually became curious enough to try Dark Souls 3 and quit after dying to the first boss about 5 times. My curiosity made me try again about 6 months later and I beat that boss on the first try. By the end of that gaming session I was so obsessed that I had trouble falling asleep and literally became a fan overnight. I've now played all of the games, with Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 being my favorites.
If you ever try them, don't be afraid to ask for help and look up guides despite what the communities tell you
@@thewal1ofsleep I'm so glad ds3 is finally being recognized as a great game. It got so much unnecessary hate when it came out, but it's a great game and has the best overall boss roster of all souls games imo.
Totally feel you. I’ve at least played a couple Soulsborne games, though, namely Sekiro and Demon’s: kinda bounced off both, but I have very different feelings toward what I did play of them.
Sekiro…probably wasn’t the best pick for my first Soulsborne. Bounced off it especially hard, I think getting a hang of the mechanics was an extra bit of difficulty on top of the actual difficulty that was a bit much for me. But Demon’s Souls…yeah, I’ll be back for that one someday. I actually was having a good bit of fun with that, my only issue was not having a bonfire equivalent…or in other words, having to start the ENTIRE DAMN LEVEL over upon death. But when I was actually in it, it was fun: furthest I got was this spiraling descent packed with enemies, and I realized I could firebomb them from above, looking forward to getting through that whenever I return.
@@Russman25123 Yeah tried that with Elden Ring the Souls/Elden Ring community is a bunch of scumbags.
I dont understand the fascination with these sort of games theyre definatly not something I ever want to experiemce again,theyre all just so boring & Elden Ring got about 20 hours out of me I got 1 sheild drop that was way too heavy to use & uninstalled it & I have no intemntions of installing it again....The entire game is roll roll strike roll roll strike...So boring.
I genuinly think alot of games channels just said they liked it because they knew exasctly how people would react,Halo & GTA5 had the same of community that didnt allow any kind of critism or anything.
12:36 “119 hours played in Dark Souls 2” Congrats on beating DS2 exactly once!
@fAppIicationof SeIf lmao, he's a fucking tool
@@notinghere2190 but hes our fucking tool
Really? That seems entirely innaccurate. According to this survey that would be around the length of a completionist run. Or around as long as two runs of the main story plus extras. Probably shorter if you've played a lot of DS1 beforehand. I've seen normal playthroughs of DS2 that were like 30 hours with the optional content.
The survey comes up if you search "average time to beat ds2"
your not even wrong i still am on ng and ive played it for like 100 hrs or so
You mean beat the tutorial boss
every video i see about the mimics in dark souls they never mention that the mimics have a different look chain on the side showing that they are mimics, also if you look at them long enough they start to breath. I just feel like im going crazy when videos dont talk about the chain.
You're fine. Unless there is another reason you might be insane.
Don't worry dude, everyone is just stupid.
Thanks now I won’t die due to mimics
@@CaganKoyak yoooooooo thats yuuuup
@@Egalitariat-likesecretariat TrUe OMEGALUL
I think the part that you're missing is, in games like DMC, and even Zelda ocarina of time, you are not actually supposed to die. Death is a mechanic, but within the game universe u are not supposed to die, you are a hero fighting against death. Dark Souls games are different in that, you ARE supposed to die, its not just a game mechanic, but also part of the story. Death is part of ur story. I think this difference in philosophy illustrates the kind of games they are supposed to be and why dying in Dark Souls feels better than a game like DMC. I feel like if you died to the first enemy you encountered in DMC, you'd just drop the game lol.
the idea that there are right and wrong ways to play a game, makes no sense if the way your playing to game is using what the developer gave you. On top of that, using sorceries isn't not having to engage with the game, if its in the game its engaging with it. You still have to dodge attacks, figure out the right time to attack and heal, you still have to explore the world to find items or to just to where you want to be. You still have to find items. You can still get ambushed. Does he think that because you have ranged options, that gives you superpowers and makes you invincible?
“NPC’s can’t heal like you do”
Bloody crow of Cainhurst: Evil laughing intensifies
I hate that guy but I finally beat him I realized how good the battle was. It was so teeeense, and getting viscerals on him was so satisfying.
@@lephoquebleu8302 I just spammed my blade of mercy and used old hunter's bone on him. It honestly felt like a DragonBall fight as we were teleporting everywhere XD
@@saiyaf5301 I was fighting him to get the Blades of Mercy :( I just used Numbing Mist everytime I visceraled him hehe
Le Phoque Bleu hahaha smart, first time I fought him was on NG+ (just beat him today), had to kill Eileen on NG :’)
Fuck that fight omg
"Any game that successfully makes you afraid of a quirky pavement is unquestionably a masterpiece".
Yes. That is immersion and fear. l love it.
Woah I read your comment literally as he said it
The item in front of the large gate with the troll on the other side banging it, you know you have truat issues when you go to get the item, hear the banging, be like yeah nope not falling for that😂
the dumbest thing said in the video!
Its brilliant and retarded all at once. Souls games are all about duality. Something can actually be great and awful at the same time in these games far more than any other. It sounds confused or confusing but it just works. Until it doesn't.
Bro the cainhurst floor tiles thing is actually so true. I did the exact same thing and avoided the tiles thinking they were pressure plates when I first went there.
Here in 2023, I can admit. Elden Ring got me started, Bloodborne made me realize OH FUCK I DO LIKE THESE. Going back and playing the other now!
'''Dodge the attack, hit them with the stick''
Thats it, this man just solved the entire souls series with one phrase, holy shit
Definitely doesn’t work in sekiro. As someone who took an actual year to leave the dark souls mindset, rolling in sekiro is rarely useful except for during the final boss
@@deanersher4136 That's why they said SOULS series. Sekiro is not a souls game, it doesn't even have stamina.
You can make everything sound this simple and bullshit if you word it like that
Sekiro says hi.
@@deanersher4136 "Block the attack, hit them with the stick"
"In souls games you develop a natural feeling for when to attack"
Margit the fell omen "hold my cane"
What's really great is that the delay on those attacks is another attempt by the devs to build on the gameplay from previous games.
Margit's delayed attacks are all tests of positioning and confidence. His big overhead cane will always allow 1-2 fully charged heavies and not even hit you if you're on his left leg. Even if you don't have him memorized, you're encouraged to just poke him a few times and roll when he starts moving. There's no window to attack him after the big attack specifically because the attack itself was the window for attack.
He does hold it indeed
@@teiyaga4811 Indefinitely even, at times
Maliketh: lol, lmao
More like,
Margit the Fell Omen: "Hold my...
...
...
CANE!"
You probably have already heard this, but i honestly enjoy the sword and board style. I will say that i do not, and really never have, used the shield they way you describe. it was always an insurance if i missed a dodge, or me intentionally blocking a hit so i can retaliate immediately after. when i learned how to parry with a shield, that only enhanced my enjoyment. for my personal taste, the guard counters in elden ring are my single favorite mechanic in these games, period. I do love bloodborne, it is my favorite overall even, but i also enjoy blocking with a shield and looking for an opening. Your other points about game design i flat out agree with, and i understand your point about the shield teaching passivity. related to this is the fact that sekiro is my least enjoyed game by fromsoft in this genre, and it featured the frenetic gameplay.
Devil May Cry is easy to learn but takes a lifetime to master. Especially DMCV Dante's 4 styles and 9 weapons that can be switched between mid-combo makes for near infinite variety and the challenge comes from begin stylish and chaining combos. It's a totally different vibe than the souls games. I love both tbh
The first time I saw a chest in Bloodborne, I whacked it just in case. 😂
I did that the entire game :(
im on my 5th playthrou but i still do it for good measure
i didnt, cuz of Dark Souls 2
First time? I STILL do that!
I did that for a while
I love how the Rally system feeds into the themes and story of Bloodborne. You are a hunter being consumed by the beast inside. Literally he who fights monsters becoming the monster. And the game encourages you to lash out at those who hurt you, to be more brutal and feral than the monsters you fight.
Funni gun
I’ve never actually thought about it like that. Lash out at those who hurt you, be more feral than they are … simple and brilliant
There's also beast blood pellets to grow on that analogy. A medicine to bring out your beast even more.
I kind of had a similar impression, "bathed in the blood of your enemies". As in the hunter feeds of the blood both literally (he is literally cover in the blood and consumes it) and metaphorical (he enjoys the scent/taste/feel of blood).
@@freedomofspeechenjoyer5443I hope you grow into a better person
On many points I agree, but the core part of the more "Fun" way to play previous Souls games: I vehemently disagree.
For example the part where you introduce how Dark Souls gives you the shield and the play conditioning linked to it. That isn't really an objective lesson the game teaches you.
One could rearange the narrative to do this. Here let me try:
_"First you get a very crappy weapon and fight some zombies. Okay, then you enter a room and a huge boss shows up with your main option being to run away. Shortly afterwards you get a shield with a ranged opponent, teaching you that against smallfry and ranged opponents: The shield is a good way to go."_ So far so similar. But now watch this: _"So the game taught you that if you pick something up, it is generally more usefull than what you previously had. And afterwards you encounter many enemies and find your weapon. This is introduced as an upgrade to your shield. It is introduced to be better than the shield. It even teaches you to two-hand the weapon for more power! And to emphasise this: You mow down the enemies and perform a plunging attack that carves out a huge chunk of the bosses health, thus showing that the weapon is better than the shield."_
See how this narrative got turned around? And I want to emphasise: My made up lesson also is not correct. Dark Souls neither teaches you to hide behind the shield, nor to go agressive. It gives you both, shows the uses of it and then lets you decide.
Not just that: There are more than one ways to use a shield. To give an example of my first souls game run in Dark Souls (No prior experience): I finished the tutorial and equiped a sword and board. My strategy was to be agressive, but with a shield. I kept the shield down and swung, only shortly blocking to stay in range to follow up on attacks. I did not hide behind a shield: I used it to be more agressive. Later on, I started using dodges more often and twohanding my weapon, while only switching to the shield when I was not familiar with the enemy attack pattern. I naturally switched from one handed sword and shield, to dodge-combat with a shield as a backup and a one handed sword, to a Zweihander + shield on back combo.
Meanwhile a friend of mine used shields which increase parry frames.
And another friend went full Klonk with the heaviest weapon he could find, using blocks and parries to get openings and smash the enemies head in. He even switched from shield to two handed weapon just for the reposte.
There was no need for bloodborne to show us to be more agressive. We did it from the start, but used shields to do so previously. Only difference was that now: We have a gun. And bloodborne was a nice game for my friend aswell, since the attack-parry style was allready his playstyle. I mainly focused on dodge-combat. But our Klonk friend? He was dismayed that bloodborne is so limited. Don't get me wrong: He played well. He got agressive, dodged, parried, the works. But he quit midway through the game saying that he would skip that one, since it is just not his playstyle. And that is the main point of disagreement: Fun can mean different things for different people.
I agree with you on many things, but it really seems to me as if you projected your own personal experience in these games onto everyone else.
The saw spear also has a second R2 after the fully charged one and it's pretty cool
Massive knockback
When you start bloodborne you sign a contract. You'll never be the same
I’ve sold my soul to the chalice dungeons
Will we ever be freed from this terrible dream?
Hope not.
Jokes on you I got scared after killing the wolf and uninstalled the game
Yeah nah the moment he said the difficulty is the draw of the game that makes you feel accomplished i was like nah no thanks navigating life is difficult enough. Smashing different women is difficult enough y'all can have this. Praising "unfairness" in a game and dying multiple times to figure something out? Lmao who has this kinda time?
@@jfelton3583 who has the kinda time to first click on a 1 hour 26 minute long video essay about why people love a video game, go down in the comment section, cherry pick one comment to reply to, think of a comment to write about how you don't like the game, post the comment, read the comment then realise you want to edit it, edit the comment, then post it and feel the cold dark empty inside you knowing you'll never have gotten gud enough to appreciate a FromSoft title?
would rather fight Orphan of Kos again
I've had one game of bloodborne going since 2016 that I've been playing on and off over the years. Last time around I got right up to the final boss and stopped. Gonna have to get around to finishing it while I'm in quarantine.
Edit: Finished it.
Terrence Eustache nice now do old hunters
@@jimmu8689 I already did actually. I got the goty edition so it came on disk.
Bless
Now do it 22 more times
@@aluminumcurtain Awesome job! Now go for the chalices
This video lays out so many of the reasons why, in retrospect, I am incredibly thankful for this game being my entry point into the series. I start new files in this game almost on the regular now, just to run back through and giggle joyfully throughout the entire experience.
Absolutely my favorite game, and possibly the most entertainingly disturbing comfort aesthetic that I have.
I played dark souls 1 as a tank with a huge shield, and I had a blast! I was so afraid, and therefore it was so exhilarating to conquer my fear. I pretty much agree with most of what you're saying, especially a point you made yourself about lords of the fallen (the game is like dark souls but all of the sliders controlling player interaction are off by a lot).
But I don't agree with your argument that shields and magic/ranged combat is almost 100% bad. Different people have different tastes, I finished Elden Ring with a dual wielding strength build in my first playthrough, and right now I am having an absolute blast as a ranged shield using battlemage. My point is that in game design there is a a 'fourfold path' or 'golden mean', and by this I mean that shields can be fun if the 'game design sliders' are positioned correctly. And by omitting shields in bloodborne From Software retroactively showed people a different amazing or very very much more amazing way of enjoying their portfolio of games.
Dante: I'm fighting for an S score!
Chosen Undead: I'm fighting for my fuckin' life!
The Hunter "im fighting to eat umbilical cords
Or what's left of it.
@@julianpradarodriguez7336 Mmmm, umbilicalicious
@@demonicloaf2100 Serve with sauteed onions, spinach, and chopped lamb.
@@kingdomcome3914 the other camp is eat it raw/ swallow it whole.
monster hunter gets away with every one of its flaws as a series because before you go on a hunt, you can have a cat cook you a meal. its 10/10 game design honestly
Not just cook you a meal but cook you the GREATEST meal you have ever had until the next time it cooks for you.
@@fourmoyle Getting to collect your own special ingredients and find the best formulae for different stats is really cool too.
As a non-gamer (read: person socialized to believe that I was bad at gaming because of my assigned gender, and also socialized to believe that video games would negatively affect my cognition because of my family's conservatism), I tended to feel utterly hopeless about most games, until one day, a gamer friend explained that video games were all about learned conventions. He said that most gamers learned all these conventions while they were children, maybe just watching their older friends/siblings, or from the internet. It changed how I approach games completely, perhaps a bit like the revelation occurring with Bloodborne players who return to Souls games better equipped. A few months later, this friend suggested I try a classic tower defense game and I beat it in one night with zero assistance! My "I'm bad at games" belief was thoroughly shattered when I realized that I'd figured out better strategies than my friend the expert gamer, who'd spent months or years playing it. I watched him play a level for a few minutes and his way was obviously more stressful, so I showed him how I did it and his mind was blown.
All this is to say that, it's definitely a good thing to acknowledge that there are better and worse ways to play a game! Play conditioning really matters--within a game, within a series, and even across different genres! I think it's really interesting that there are games out there that make gamers feel just as crappy as I used to feel, and I kinda feel bad for them, even though they sound way more whiny and entitled than I ever did (because they had previously tasted success, whereas I hadn't). So I agree with you that it's better to build a nice on-ramp rather than blaming the player. It makes me wonder why Souls game fans didn't just share their strategies rather than lording their superiority over someone who's already struggling and demoralized.
I completely understand the whole "learned conventions" thing. I've had a rather irregular relationship with games in my life, and the ones I've played both growing up and now tend to be PS2 platformers, puzzle games, sandbox games, and indie games. About a year ago (before I broke my computer) I got really into playing SMITE (it's a MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena), the main relevant point is that it's an online game that requires good teamwork and being able to observe and understand what role you need to play in your team at what times), and as a result all of my friends were also getting into it because I wanted to play with them. One of my friends in particular would get frustrated with me because I lacked what he called "game sense". I understood how my character's abilities worked and how to use them, but I was completely clueless to what role I needed to play in my team and what I should be doing. There's a lot of built in strategy and tactics that games either can't or don't bother to teach you. To take another example, I also played Valorant for a bit (another MOBA, but more shooty shooty with utility, as opposed to magic abilities like SMITE), and Valorant expects you to know what to do because its playerbase and creators played Halo growing up, and going online to watch videos doesn't help because they also played Halo growing up and it doesn't occur to anybody that some people might not know basic shooter MOBA basics like be observant of ALL of your surroundings, never stop moving, recoil is a thing, and to somebody who has never dealt with any of this stuff before, it's overwhelming and sometimes downright counterintuitive. To somebody who doesn't know the secret golden rule of a moving target is harder to hit than a still one, constantly moving seems bad because it's harder to aim while moving. There's a lot of little bits of common sense like that that games just don't tell you because everybody knows that.
I don't have a conclusion to this, but it suddenly just occurred to me that those little pieces of common sense would make great loading screen tips.
Didn't read lol
There’s actually a really interesting series on here called “gaming for a non gamer”. It’s a guy who’s having his wife who’s never played ANY games go through and play different types of games and it’s fascinating to watch. Things that we take for granted she just doesn’t know. Like red bar means health. No idea. Highly recommend. It’s fantastic.
@@shreddiekirin3864 Having to learn all these unspoken conventions on the fly, in front of many of your friends, must have been pretty annoying. What I wish more gamers understood is that it's condescending (and factually wrong) to call these tips "common sense" even if they happen to mimic real life--that is, they're consequences of the subset of real life that the game chooses to implement. But until you're familiar with exactly which aspects of real life the game does and doesn't implement, it's not logical; it's arbitrary. That's why prior experience, like years of playing Halo, makes such a difference: it gives you the right priors for guessing what aspects of real life are implemented in a First Person Shooter, which can then be extended to multiplayer. Until you've got a handle on that, it's not that you "lack" game sense; it's that your game sense is mismatched to how the game is implemented. Hbomb gave another example of that kind of mismatch happening, when players with different gaming backgrounds felt the Souls' controls were clunky and slow.
Speaking of clunky, IMO loading screen tips is the clunky (but better than nothing) way to transmit this kind of arbitrary knowledge. If you're gonna make a whole game, you might as well properly on-ramp your players. Make this kind of tutorial stuff optional if you can't figure out how to do it suavely so that those with the right play conditioning don't get bored--ideally, they won't even notice and neither will the people who are learning something. And for the love of kittens, don't immediately trick players into the wrong play style and then act innocent about it.
Sounds like a lot of self projection to me
Too be fair going slow in dark souls isn't necessarily a bad thing. Especially in new areas. Take your time, observe the environment and play strategic. Even in bloodborne I did that so I wouldn't end up in situations where I'd had more deaths then was necessary. Its fine to play aggressive or action rpg like but you also need to play with patience and thought. Play smarter not harder.
3:52 "I've had to put so much thought into defeating a certain type of enemy"
***Circles for Backstab***
It's amazing how far "Shank this motherfucker in the back" gets you in a Souls game.
Main thing that puts me off. Even the simplest beatemups have varied combos and ways to kill someone. And here you just circle and backstab everything. It's even worse in Dark Souls 1 PVP, some on! People talk about how slow and strategic these games are when it all comes down to people rolling around for genital jousting and who can stick it in the pooper first wins.
That moment when "Stab it in the ass" is considered more involving than any single Vergil bossfight in DMC3, let alone all of them across the series. Hbomb kinda lost me there.
its the levels, bosses, and group encounters that make souls alot to thik about and to strategize. its all about spacing, its no fighting game meta tho. hbomb is also super hyperbolic, fuck u mean the "psychology" of an enemy?
@@KasumiRINA that's why DS3 is the best game in the series. Just try that shit on enemies whose attacks track you instead of turning into mannequins the second their attack animations start.
This game is still brimming with people to play with to this day, I stand around boss arenas ringing my resonant bell just to help people through them with my broccoli squid powers. The longevity of this game is beautiful.
Especially if you are in the bloodborne reddit discord.
A. Cooper I redownloaded the game 4 days ago I played through it 2 times before the first time I did a playthrough of the game I never really played dark souls games before I played dark souls a little bit but it was very little so I was very new blood borne was my first real jump into the world of dark souls my first run of the game I made it to cainhurst and beat the boss then quit I think other stuff came out and I stopped playing I also didn’t care to learn about the world or the characters later I decided to pick it up again for my second playthrough I made it to about the same place but fell off and stopped again after a long time and many more dark souls style of games played and beaten I’ve really started to appreciate these types of game so I wanted to go back to bloodborne for my third and current playthough I’ve decided to put forth the effort to actually experience and research more into the lore and the world and truly see what the game has to offer in its characters environments and storytelling after beating the story getting the true ending maximizing my character doing every optional bosses exploring all the chalice dungeons listening to all the dialogue pretty much doing everything I can safely say this I my favorite souls style game and easily one of my top 5 games everything about this game is amazing
A. Cooper i just got the game today. Having so much fun
Akshay rao good luck with the game it’s incredibly fun if you enjoy it enough check out some lore videos to really appreciate the game and maybe even do a second play through
One person, who summoned me, let me fight Ludwig all by myself (I tried countless rematches with him this way, rather than going through all the hoobs in my own saves), and that was the sweetest thing anyone had ever done for me in this game, completely disregarding that their intent had nothing to do with my satisfaction in actuality, but still I got it!
“The best defence is a swift and decisive offense”
Mostly agree with this, but I do think the analysis of DMC is a bit misinformed. The challenge doesn't necessarily come from sheer difficulty of "beating" an encounter, but from the very high skill ceiling of beating any given encounter in a very stylish way. It's not an experience made for everyone, just like how the soul series is not made for everybody.
My boyfriend introduced my to Dark Souls as my first ever videogame. I was turned off of video games entirely for years after that.
who does that??!!
I showed my ex gaming with the first title, Journey, and then Dark Souls. Her favourite games I bet.
@@blake.1312 Journey is a nice pick for first timers
@@joshuaroa8503 I know. Any game without a difficulty setting that just exists to be experienced is a good pick, tbh
@@joshuaroa8503 abzu as well. Same vein as Journey
The fact that Dark Souls kills you arbitrarily all the time also kinda rams home how only the undead - people who revive after dying - could do this job. It makes respawning - something that's always a non-diegetic thing in games - a core part of the story.
This isn't something that makes the game great, it's just really interesting.
"The developers didn't blame the player, they blamed the game. And then they fixed it."
This design philosophy is something about this company that I really appreciate. Each game works to refine and improve upon the previous one. It doesn't say, "Well, we found something that works, let's stick with it.' It said, "Okay, we found something that works, how can we make it work better?"
Not enough creators have this attitude.
I like my shield. I still mainly rely on rolling, I don't just hide behind the shield. I use it for parrying, and I use it for situations where I'm cornered, quickly raise it to avoid a lot of damage, and then get out of the positions. Shields don't have to be the slow hiding thing. They can be the emergency button
I love the juxtaposition of "other 3rd person action games like Devil may cry or Drakengard..."
DMC is one of the most flashy style action games while Drakengard was called Drag-On Dragoon originally because it's gameplay was made intentionally mashy tedious and very un-flashy in order to drive home the point that only insane people would enjoy killing thousands of people. It's bare bones in terms of combat but I enjoyed it.
Best square game ever made.
that's not why it was called that, Drag-on dragoon is the original Japanese title
As one of the 10 people who actually beat the Pthumerian Queen at the end of the Chalice dungeons I feel I can comment with some authority on them: It was a fun dungeon crawl with a randomizer element. To me, the repetition combined with the enemy randomizer lured you into a false sense of security when entering a similar looking area.
Also the fire thrower boss fight was amazing, as well as the princes and king (I can't remember the names it's been awhile.)
The Queen herself isnt the Problem. These stupid Halflife Dungeons with the Amygdala and the hound are.
Its been years since i slaughtered the beasts of the dungeon but the Dreams...the Dreams of Them never Leave me
@@oliverarent3375 oh God. The rush of memories of fighting amygdala at half health. The first time I played Bloodborne I wanted to try all the cool hunter tools but also swing my saw cleaver with real damage, so I sacrificed putting any points into health as a tradeoff. So the half health dungeons were basically one hit challenges and I spent days on amygdala.
As another one of the 10 people who actually beat the Pthumerian Queen at the end of the Chalice dungeons, I feel I can comment with some authority on them as well: they were like a tedious chore after a while. The randomizer element just lead to samey dungeons with the same enemies but a slightly different selection or dispersal. The only reason I did them was so I can defeat every boss in the game. Since some bosses are exclusive to the dungeons I had to suffer through the monotony.
8:18 “a sense of paranoia” what no that’s not true *goes on to stab every chest before trying to open it*
The chain of the chest tells if it is a trap, where is the paranoia hehe?
I´ve played through ds3 a few times already and I know every mimic chest but I still stab every single normal one.
>rubbish
ye i even stabbed all the chests in bloodborne just to conclude after i beat it that there arent any mimics in that game
Ayo FUCK chests
The voice acting on this game is just 👌👌. Never heard as much maniacal laughing and people going crazy on anything than Bloodborne hahah. This game has one of the best atmospheres in all of gaming, I swear.
voice acting is basically a given in souls games but UGHH bloodborne just hits different
@@katchupp5067 Yeah, I've noticed this is a common theme in FromSoft games lol. But like you said, Bloodborne just does it best. I absolutely adore the insanity lol.
@@-_evilskittles_-4466
“ahh kos, or some say kosm”
*moans*
@@katchupp5067 Lmaoo, Micolash. 😂
"Do you hear our prayersss??"
*AWOOOOOOOOOO*
*OOOOOOOOOOOOO*
Fr most of the npc laughs at the end of the conversation. It’s quite unnerving and funny at the same time😂
Don't worry King's Field, some of us still like you.
I really love having proper closed captions on such long-form content ❤
It's incredible how he specifically attacks everything I love about Souls games as bad (Shields, lots of weapons to experiment with), and yet we both still love souls games
yeah idk, I think hes conflating the fact that people tend to play in boring ways because its easier/less risky with saying that everyone enjoys the same way of playing, which is just wrong. Telling everyone to just "suck it up and jump in with a sword" is the best way to shame people into playing in ways they don't even enjoy, and making them not enjoy the games in the end.
Yep. He's just spouting off his own biased opinion as fact. And took an hour and a half to do it.
@[NonExistant] MolecularCandy ok but for 99% of people they choose not to feel those sensations because they dislike it, only exceptions are when players just don't know about certain mechanics (for example people who don't realize you can parry in BB). A lot of people dislike the bloodrush feeling in these games, and if they play it slowly and still enjoy themselves then more power to them, who the hell are we to tell them how to play.
And more importantly the community is gatekeeping these games by pressuring people into playing in ways they don't enjoy. If you want the game to prosper and grow you should let people play however the hell they want, no matter how cheesy or boring you think it is.
@[NonExistant] MolecularCandy it is ABSOLUTELY about pressuring people, the whole fucking community is saying that if you don’t play in this arbitrarily decided way you’re “doing it wrong” and he was basically echoing the exact same thing by saying that playing carefully ruins the game. You’re basically deciding what people are supposed to enjoy for them which is so narcissistic and tone-deaf, and its a big part of what makes this fanbase so unapproachable.
@[NonExistant] MolecularCandy "There's this unique sensation" for fucks sake that's your experience with the game it doesn't mean every person who tries it will have the exact same sensation as you how dense do you have to be to think that? How can you possibly not understand that different people can get different sensations from the same thing, leading certain people to dislike it and others to like it. You're just taking your opinion on the game and the sensation you got playing it as fact, when that varies immensely from player to player.
'I have to put more thought into killing a red or black knight than every enemy in other similar games put together!' *footage of a person strafing around a black knight for a backstab, repeat*
you can't even backstab enemies in dmc
Yeah but strafing hard left or right to do one move each time isn't really what I would consider to be deep thought, is all. I agree with everything else, just that one bit of footage made me laugh because I thought it was a bad example.
Cameron Atkinson backstab is arguably the worst thing about the souls games because it doesn't take skill and shows how circle strafing is used to exploit the overwhelming majority of enemies in dark souls
Ali Khamenei Actually the devs saw the error of their ways, that's why enemies in Souls 3 have attacks that guard their back and circle strafing isn't as useful.
Also, on the part of the easy parrying mechanic. Souls 2 & Souls 3 fixed that.
LN2233
Only Lothric and Cathedral knights have anti-backstab measures. Lothric knights have literally 0 poise, so BS isn't needed at all. Cathedral knights are poise monsters, they're one of the few really challenging mobs.
Black knights are STILL begging to get backstabbed. Silver knights have gotten better, but still easily BSed.
Came back to this video years later for review. There's a couple of major issues I have with it, especially with half a decade of hindsight and experience, but mostly I disagree with the variety of weapons point. Having played all of these games many... _many_ times, using the same few weapons over and over again (bloodborne) gets old... fast. Really fast. I have my highest playtime in the games in this series which have the greatest weapon variety.
Another issue in dark souls 1 with the shield is in undeadburg with the crossbow skeletons. They teach you that the best way to progress through complex’s areas is to keep the shield up. Most beginners may try to dodge arrows, run into the other enemies, die then learn to keep shield up.
Hey! I went to university for game design. The term you coin as 'play conditioning' does actually already exist - it's called affordances, which is a byproduct of immersion. People think immersion is just people getting into a game and believing it's real, but in game design it also refers to players responding to the rules of a world by making choices based on how they have experienced the game and want to experience more of it. There is indeed a massive body of work on the subject, and it's all really interesting. I dunno why I'm banking on you seeing this but if you do, hit me up and I'd be glad to share with you a lot of the articles my professors recommended to me! Cool video, I just figured you'd wanna know so you can make more analysis videos and stuff.
If this made you mope in the corner I'm sorry.
EDIT: Originally, my comment omitted the term 'affordances;' a commentor Mel pointed out the term. The term honestly slipped my mind, I'm def. not perfect at this either. My bad!
Do you know where one would generally access this massive body of work? Is there, like, a "game design" section in places you'd normally search for academic literature (e.g. google scholar), or is it somewhere else by virtue of being game design?
@@echks6204 This is awesome, thanks for showing interest! So, a lot of it were just pdfs of peer-reviewed articles and I can't re-gather them here in a youtube comment, but there are some really good websites out there that I can totally recommend as a starting point. Gamasutra (dot com) is a good starting point although the website can be a bit hard to navigate at times. As well, FirstPersonScholar (dot com) has been a great resource lately, I totally recommend them too. Also, when learning a new game design term, googling "game design essay " nets you a few winners.
In terms of immersion specifically, I got started with that concept by reading "Flow, The Psychology of Optimal Experience" (Cziksentmihalyi, 1990) and "Immersion and Identity in Video Games" (Terzioglu, 2015). I hope these work for you. :)
@@TweedsGuide Thank you, I appreciate it!
That's really interesting! It seems that the word "immersion" quite often is interpreted as "realism". But I rather think that adding hunger mechanics for example, just to make it more immersive, is often just a cheap substitute. Just because you'd expect to get hungry in the real world doesn't translate to immersion in video games, unless it comes with meaningful mechanics. So talking about immersion in the context of the psychological phenomenon "the flow" make a lot of sense to me. The flow and immersion both happening when striking a balance of familiarity/competence and unfamiliarity/challenge.
Obviously the act of learning from a game also follows much of the same processes of learning things in school (which there is also a tone of studies in). So didactic methods (which a high school teachers would use) does also explain a lot how a game presents and teaches the rules of mechanics to the player. It's actually a lot like telling a story and how you'd do that to make it interesting and exciting. Do you tell the most exciting parts first or space it out? Do you tell the story chronologically? Do you withhold information until the very end? Either way it's all the same content just delivered in different ways, but it has huge impacts on how it's interpreted or whether the content is received at all.
@@bmore3319 As I alluded to before, 'immersive' doesn't mean 'like the real world' as much as it means 'a world I can exist in.' If a game adds a hunger mechanic and you're trained to go "oops, gone 6 hours without eating, I'm hungry" and you're talking about your character in that way, you're more immersed even if hunger didn't exist in the real world. Often times game designers are looking for that player-character empathy with mechanics like hunger more than they're looking for realism, because as soon as you're attached to the character, you're more immersed since you care about them and want to maintain their progression even if it means a game mechanic you as a person like less (like hunger, weapon durability, etc).
Keep in mind with OoT, it was one of the very first 3d adventure games, so it actually did need to explain a lot
Not to mention it's intended to be played mainly by young kids.
This is a Great point
ZELDA STAN ALERT I REPEAT ZELDA STAN IS ON THE PREMISES, PLEASE EVACUATE IMMEDIATELY
@@featherycoffee1401 what do you mean? Its game discussion, and they are right
@@Florescentia02 I think they were joking
This arguing reminds me a lot of why strategy games are out of fashion. Such great games, but peoples general approach to them ruins it for them.
The paperwork permission thing after a button press is incredibly accurate and funny at the same time.
9:40 that trap literally blew my mind. shit myself and dodged at the last second. "heh, nice try. you think I haven't played aSouls game before?" *spiky log of death flies off and sends me plummeting to my doom*
next-aros Well I just got slapped when I triggered it
Miyazaki has a talent for screwing with players in one way or another.
*cue Dave Chappelle* GOTCHA BITCH
the whole "shields make the game less fun because it's easier" reminds me of a point a game designer made once that I thought was really interesting. Humans will generally not do things the fun way, they'll optimise the fun out of things. Games often have to protect your from your own boring tendencies because you're avoiding failure a lot. It was an interesting thought because you'd assume people play games for fun so they'd TRY to have fun but you're actually trying to WIN and that can mean hanging back and playing as safely as possible. Zelda makes this ok because it's never hard enough for you to be hanging back 99% of the game but souls games are hard enough for you to end up doing that. I've never gotten into a souls game but I don't have anything against the style, I'm just not into this kind of commitment right now. Maybe someday lol.
Should try bloodborne as your first if you master it the other games will be almost a cake walk the game makes it so hanging back isnt much of an option if you want to get anywhere you get pushed and it’ll teach you to push back
YES!!!! This reminds me of the Last Wish raid in Destiny 2. For the final boss of the raid, Riven, you are able to just skip most of the boss fight if your entire team just runs to a specific corner at a specific time. I was really happy to have completed the raid for the first time ever, but in all honesty I kinda felt cheated out of the experience... even if the bugged method was faster and easier.
Exactly. Another souls-like combat game, VAMPYR, has a mechanic where if you want to get some stat boosts, you need to drain innocents in the city. You can not do it and just play optimally, but it is incentivised to show that even good vampires kill people. I still see people ranting about game's difficulty trying to get a perfect run when they can just play it normally and feel the rpg element.
@@krimvanastrea I would if I had a PS4!
I definitely did that and honestly it’s influenced how I play games to this day, I always go the out tanking route if possible.
I can't disagree more with your point about shields. Shields are there as a safety so that you can experiment more. Want to just dodge? Go for it, that's still allowed. Want to try and parry? Why not, you've got a shield that can still reduce some damage while you figure out the timing. Want to just be a tank and soak up as much damage as you can? Please do, here's Havel's set.
Bloodborne not having a shield doesn't make it "more fun" or "easier to learn." It just reduces your options and forces you into the dodge and parry playstyle. That's good for some and clearly you find it more fun. By that same token, plenty of people like playing as a hulking suit of armor who can shrug off huge hits. That's fun to them. Dark Souls doesn't force anyone to play a turtle, it just says "Here's a shield, use it how you please." If someone things hiding behind a shield the whole game is boring and doesn't think to set aside their shield and use the dodging mechanic instead or trade their shield for a parrying buckler that incentivizes agile movement more is the source of their problem with the game, not the game itself.
Can’t believe bloodborne is this old and still totally playable. Aged like fine wine
Right?!
Just started another playthrough and it's still so damn good
@@jjcoola998 my favorite game of all time and that will NEVER change c:
Made me realize i was conditioned into playing life in the least fun way
Hahha yeah it was quite the epiphany for me too lol. This is basically like
early childhood psychology but applied in games, its wild
@@shevankaseneviratne1724 Ones reality is another’s illusion
no, no, no. Just click on all the ads, get all the products and you will find salvation.
bro..
I mean... yeah. Like in some ways that's completely unavoidable, there is no respawn irl and some things that would be very fun are just not survivable enough to be worth it, but also we have a society where all the mechanics are there for everyone to have their needs met with very little actual drudgery and then get on with things they find personally fulfilling and enjoyable, but for some godforsaken reason we've decided that most people have to spend most their lives metaphorically farming for souls just to scrape by for another day.
"you're never going to feel like an unbeatable badass"
Me: *laughs in 99 arcane whilst spamming a call beyond*
ah yes using something that takes no skill “badass”
Well yeah, fair. FromSoft games, as I've noticed, tend to give you a easier time if you know how to over-specialise with certain builds. Arcane, as you mentioned, works very well. Relying on Beasthood also can make you feel like a badass, because besides having to dodge all attack lest you die immediately, your damage with a full Beasthood meter is Insane (yes, capital i).
@@jasenunn Keyword is *feel like* never said it took skill man. Plus, you're acting like it's impossible to have more than one character. Don't be a gatekeeper and just let people have fun with the game. 😂
SpixiCafé tf did i say that makes me a gatekeeper tf i said using call beyond doesn’t make you badass come on fam
SpixiCafé also how am i acting like it’s impossible to have more than one character tf now your just saying shit
1:01:11 Something that I noticed is that you can only faintly hear the ominous chanting in the Hypogean Gaol when you're in the underground jail area, and it reaches full volume when you go outside. It's like some unseen choir is belting out this unholy hymn from one of the nearby chapel towers. You can imagine coming to in the jail cell and faintly hearing the singing, only to leave the building out into the street and it's this deafening cacophony of sound which fills the whole area. There is a distinct lack of background music in almost all areas of the game except that one, and it really stands out as a piece of music as a result. Genius environmental sound design.
Fun fact: this video lef to me NOT enjoying dark souls. I tried the thief class and after the taurus demon killed himself along with me so I didn't get his drops, the pig fucked me in the ass and I could do nothing about it. If I ever go back on it I'll probably do a magic-heavy build lmao
Also dark souls ii's health-reducing system runs completely contrary to this whole philosophy. Not to mention other design choices like putting half a mile of land, three black knights, twenty rats and thirty hollows between the boss and the nearest bonfire, or the whole humanity deal or, again, SHIELDS EXISTING. Did you even remember shield parries. This video actually keeps infuriating me the more I think about it
"dealing with them require thought and is much more engaging" as he circles a black knight for a backstab
So much "depth" in the combat when i can circle around the enemies for easy backstab cheese. Riiiiiiiight 🤣
@Calcium Bicarbonate Cuz that lazy ass rinse and repeat method is barely even a tactic. Strafe around, do the same attack 🤷🏽♂️. Shit is lazy imo but everybody got their own taste in combat
@Carlub Nahh i play REAL action games like DMC3 and Bayonetta. Games that are the ultimate test of skill and combat depth
@Carlub So basically his point is valid.
@@duveysgamingacademia6587 "REAL action games" compared to fake ones? Theyre labelled action for a reason, just because you like gatekeeping doesnt make other action games less valid
Came for Bloodbourne - got mainly demon / dark souls
Sir. Albion71 DS3 and Bloodborne are my favorite souls. I’m trying DS1 but I can’t get into it in terms of gameplay. I fucking love DS1 don’t get me wrong but. It just doesn’t click like BB and DS3 did. Love all the games for the story though. Especially the more love craft stuff in BB.
@@Sm0k3turt Totally agree. I love games with a rich lore, and BB is simply great in terms of that.
@@Sm0k3turt really has a lot to do with playing the others first
Always play a game series in order. If you haven't, try Mass Effect 1 2 then 3. The DLC is pretty mandatory like Souls too. And tbh, those games are probably harder than Souls if you play on high difficulty. Trying to take down a Krogan charging at you is no joke. And now that I think about it, the combat reminds me of Soulsborne, in that you dodge at the right time to not get annihilated, and you don't need cover (shield) if you chose an aggressive playstyle/class. I mention Mass Effect because it's my other favorite series and it's just as amazing as Souls, especially played in order.
@@amisfitpuivk
Mass Effect games are best on Insanity difficulty for sure, it can feel super fulfilling.
For me this happened with Sekiro. Part of what was overwhelming for me in Souls games was that I never know whether I sucked or had the wrong gear. Removing some of the RPG stuff in Sekiro let me focus on the mechanics purely, then I took that back to other Souls games and, confident in my gameplay ability, I could find my way through all the gear better
The part about Patrick’s reaction to different bosses depending on how he plays is a bit misleading.
I’ve beaten Orphan of Kos and sighed in relief, your reaction can just be based on how you’re feeling that day or how long you’ve been fighting an enemy, or how much you enjoy a boss encounter.
Just so you know, mimic chests have a different chain that hangs off the side of it, so theres actually a visible difference that exists to tell you whether a chest is safe or not
And in DS2 they have some type of lock or something (?)
And in DS3 don't they straight up breathe if you watch closely enough?
@@Spo8 ds3 mimics are literally ds1 mimics and yes they both breathe
I always just read the 3-4 messages telling me the chest is a mimic.
You can also see the teeth if you adjust the camera right, though it's a bit tricky to do so
In your Play Conditioning discussion, I feel I understand what it was the developers were trying to teach with giving you the shield. The lesson wasn't "You're going to die a lot, turtle behind your shield and pray you'll survive", but rather "You're going to encounter situations where enemies attack from a distance, so use a shield so you can close the distance and get in their face." It was meant to teach you that there are scenarios where dodging was not optimal, so a shield is useful.
this is true, but it still has an unintentional effect
Big issue I feel is when the game does it again later in the game with the Anor Londo Snipers... shields will just get you killed
@@WeskAlber Dodging wasn't much better in that scenario, though, once you were on the ledges with the knights and trying to get past that one that was right in your way.
@@FirstLast-cg2nk Can dodge through the arrows. Shield you'd often just get sent off anyway
@@WeskAlber But there's still that one knight sitting on a narrow ledge you have to go past, and dodging is perilous, being much more likely to cause you to go over by accident.
Yeah, Thumper does remind me of salvia. I kinda miss salvia lol
6 years later, rewatching this with a sudden urge to replay the best Soulsborne.
Lovely video! Just one thing, though.
1:30 I’d say the point of DMC series wasn’t to overcome challenges, or simply kill your enemies, but to kill your enemies in the most fabulous ways possible. The Style meter is a proof - you can’t just keep spamming the same attack that works to get a high style point. You need to have variation. But I guess it also depends on each and every person as to how or why they’d play the game.
Tell that to DmC reboot
For sure! DMCV is arguably the deepest combat in a game to date and enemies are insanely well designed to influence a skilled players moment to moment decision making. DMC3 is also insane. Not to forget DMC4 pioneering the ideal upgrade system of adding to your options as your skill grows and the terrifying micromechanics (probably unfixed oddities in the code due to the cut development time) of distortion and inertia. Seriously Google DMC4 distortion and inertia if you are not aware that has to be one of the highest skill ceilings in video games it's as deep as a street fighter game but Dante is like 8 characters in one.
In a way, that feeling a Devil May Cry fan would get at seeing him describe it wrong and dislike it accidentally sets up how a game is affected by how you approach playing it. Pretty interesting.
Yeah that really bothered me. He's criticizing a game that's supposed to be fun and look cool for... being fun and looking cool. It's just such a bad point to make.
I didn't understand the effect of mimics until i started attacking chests in Sekiro
Lol i never did than and i played every soulsgame till i could no more
I hit chests in Lego Harry Potter Years 1-4
Not even just mechanically though - if it killed you then and there it wouldn't have the same effect as watching the fucker demolish your corpse. It's kind of gratuitous, but it makes you remember.
@Daniel Jairala you're missing a word bro.
@@cirlu_bd fixed lmao ty
I need it to be known that this video made me forget there’s a block button in DS1
I got heavily into dodging and parrying after watching this video, to the point where I never raised a shield. When I got to Anor Londo though, I died more times to the archers on the buttresses than I did any other enemy, because it didn’t occur to me that I could block their arrows
I eventually figured that out and went on to beat the game for the first time after giving it up for years
You know, I got to those witches in the woods, which is a dead end, and wasn't sure where to go to next. Then, I discovered the chalice dungeons, and I though that's what I needed to beat to progress the game. So I only played chalice dungeons for months, almost quitting the game dispite really enjoying the game until then, before going back to Yarnum just to feel something and then I found out where to go. Anyways, good game, great video, this was my 1st souls game and I'm very grateful for it. My buddy showed me Dark Souls 1 and it looked fun but I forgot about it until playing Bloodborne
The shield had the opposite effect on me in dark souls, it emboldened me to charge into situations cause I could tank the suprise hits and respond.
Exactly!! I feel the same! Bloodborne was my first Soulsborne game and later after playing DS I loved the Shield and I felt way more confident and I had much more fun playing with it! :)
Yeah, from reading other comments about how people had fun with shields I don’t think it’s the shield alone that’s the problem, it’s just that one overly cautious play style some people use it for
It really depends on how you decided to utilize shields. Aggressive play with a shield is quite rewarding but it's a coin flip whether a player gets this intuitively, which is Harris' point. Bloodborne makes it nearly impossible to learn wrong, which is a clear improvement over other games in the series.
@@spellbound1875 the alteration to the parrying mechanic also made a huge difference, it was significantly easier to learn how to party in Bloodborne due to the gun bieng almost instant.
Even then 90% of the time I just dodged, I loathed the parry mechanic in all the games and even Bloodbornes improvement couldn't save it for me.
It's the main reason I just couldn't enjoy sekiro..
@@cthulhluftagn3812 I also never really got into the parry mechanic, though in bloodborne the ability to parry while out of an attacks range made it much less risky to experiment with.
In Dark Souls 3 I quite enjoyed mixing a greatshield and a hand axe so I could easily absorb attacks and then time my own counters. I found it substantially more enjoyable to practice timing my shield blocks to minimize stamina loss rather than just focus on parrying which makes a simple but deep combat system into a simple binary of successful or unsuccessful parry. Both dodging and blocking don't interrupt the flow of combat and are to my mind more enjoyable to play.
Sekiro leaning hard into the timing focus of parrying was definitely a shift and while I finished the game it is easily my least favorite out of the series. To the devs credit Sekiro did make parrying more engaging but the shift towards responding to an opponents rhythm rather than making your own was a real drag.
i thought backtracking in ds1 was cool because it made the world feel more connected, something i hadn't seen in any other semi-similar game at that point
plus the areas were pretty too
I hate the fact you can fast travel from the very beginning in Dark Souls 2 and 3.
That level design was a piece of art on itself
***** I enjoyed every area after the Lord vessel though. They are what they were meant to be; areas accessible throughiut different corners of the map. And you can still see some areas from the others (lost izalith is visible from the tomb of giants, and vice versa) Adding just that bit more of verticality made it better
mandraxhair I never really had any complaints with izalith, except for the boss. If anything I wish they made the Pilar bonfire a warp point, but meh. Visually the area felt really cool, didn't really have any complaint with enemy placement. And I didn't have any issue with the reskinned boss, I felt it was forgivable since that was their place of origin
The thing is, Souls games ARE fair. They give you the tools you need, and let you explore - they don't artificially bloat a boss's health if you level up, and the enemy moves are balanced to such a point that a "no-hit" run of the entire series is possible (not that I could dream of doing that). In fact, it's even possible to run past almost every mob in the game - name me a non-FromSoft game that doesn't force you to take on mobs either all the time or at certain checkpoints... maybe Dishonored?
I personally kind of suck at Souls games, but they are simultaneously my favorite games. I play for the lore, the setting, and the feeling, combine with the fluidity of the mechanics (Dark Souls 1 is still a bit rough gameplay-wise for me, but I did enjoy the original Demon's Souls).
Noah Caldwell Gervais has an amazing video on this series also