That's what I appreciate too. He puts it perfectly when he has said in the past that it's sometimes hard to ride for Taylor. She is a human being, like the rest of us. Not a God. Even people we love and fan girl over have room for criticism, as we all do.
I love that you're not one sided. It's very refreshing for you to not just agree with everything she does just because she's Taylor Swift. People make mistakes. Even her.
I was going to say the same 🙌🏼 I’m a huge 1D (the band and the boys) fan and I don’t think I could publicly call them out if they did something worth calling out like Zach is doing here 😅 I’m definitely here for it
Given this all happened during the Tumblr "not like other girls" era, Taylor at this time strikes me as someone who had a basic idea of what feminism is but didn't quite get the nuances of it
I don’t think it’s that she didn’t understand it, she just saw it as a tool to support her narrative and to defend herself when she feels she’s being attacked. To this day she’s mostly talked about it when someone talks about her dating history in a way she doesn’t like, possibly because she still hasn’t completely let go of her good girl complex
@@lyna.shanel she probably "apologised" to taylor to stop the long reign of being overshadowed by taylor and just to get her off her back. tay probably wouldnt have spared her even after rep if katy hadn't offered to make up.
I would argue that Taylor did play a larger part in Katy’s downfall than many would think. I agree that Katy’s artistry wasn’t sustainable to have a long career but we also often overlook how much mental health play into an artist’s career choices. When you have one of the biggest pop stars on the planet assembling girl squad to alienate/bully you and turning their fans against you it would take a mental toll on you, and I hold onto the belief that it altered Katy’s brain chemistry to some extent that shaped Witness era to be about being vulnerable/having something to prove. Like if the feud never happened, swish swish wouldn’t have existed and this era might be a lot different, might focus on real artistry growth than circling a portion of it around the feud, appearing to be a try-hard, having identity crisis etc. Witness era felt like the feud “got” to her, that made her act a certain way and drove away some of her audience. That’s my take on it
Blaming Taylor for Katy's downfall. Taylor faced a whole hate train yet came back stronger. It's on Katy and her outdated music choices that made her the irrelevant artist she is today
@@jeelee3096 Not blaming her but saying it’s a factor which a lot of people refuse to admit it played a part at all. So Taylor bounced back from the hate train and Katy couldn’t. Obviously not everyone is Taylor Swift, and not everyone bounces back. But should we say if someone couldn’t make a 100% perfect comeback plan and rise above from a low point, they deserve it? or is it the unnecessary hate train that shouldn’t have been there in the first place?
When I tell people that during 1989 I enjoyed her music but took a step back from liking her they get so defensive about it. They’re always like it was her mgmt team but I saw this drama and girl squad and did not like it
She definitely had to grow on me again over time but I always listened to and loved her music. It may have just been extra hard for me during 1989 bc I was in high school and there were those mean girl squads lol
I just discovered your channel and podcast and can I just say - wow! The level of professionalism, journalistic skills and critical analysis you have is second to none in the Swiftie community. Great job Zachary!
Katy was mentioning Taylor and taking about her everywhere. Going to Kanye's concert and posting clips of singing to that lyric. She's an awful person overall
Can we all take moment and appreciate our very own Swiftologist whose power of analysis / critical thinking in the Taylor Nation world is unheard of ? Also, Zach never takes any time of, ever! Thank you Zach for all this amazing content! 👏🏻👏🏻🔥🔥🙏🏻😍
I swear I have only ever heard the same three sentence summary of this no matter when or who. So I GREATLY appreciate the actual analysis and in depth information.
I still think it’s weird to get mad at someone for “taking” their dancers, like there aren’t enough dancers out there to hire?? Also, I think it could’ve been interesting if the two reconciled by writing songs for each other or featuring on each other’s songs or appearing on stage to sing a duet.
I think it was intentional though. I mean, I know it’s business, but Taylor wouldn’t do that if someone was on a tour. it’s shitty business. katy is meh
i love how this really shows how scary tayvoodoo is like even when she is very blatantly in the wrong in a situation, her cosmic powers are simply too strong and she still comes out on top anyway😭😭
I'd love for you to make a nuanced video on Taylor's public relationships. I will always defend her right to use relationships as inspiration for her songs, because at the end of the day she's an artist and artists tend to project their personal lives through art. But at the same time, i feel like she knew what she was doing when she would appear publicly with her boyfriends. As a celebrity, you should know that everything you publicize will garner attention and awaken controversy. Even though the backlash was harsh and sexist, it also kept her very relevant.
Taylor was a chaotic mess in the 1989 era. She was very ambitious and I think she didn't mind having some colateral damage, as long as everything went well. I guess, we also have to consider Taylor was very young. I'm not excusing her behaviour, but she was dealing with a lot in this era. I think being cancelled, her personal struggles made her have a turn of heart and mature a lot. It was a much needed character development.
Zach's journalistic and analytical prowess is truly unmatched among public-facing pop culture enthusiasts. This coverage was excellent. One of my most valued You Tube subscriptions.
I just love these super insightful videos. Zack you TRULY have a gift of explaining pop culture in an intelligent yet exciting way. Rolling Stone needs to hire you ASAP.
tbh Katy's downfall was a mix of a lot of events (Trump era started, change in appearance, change in music style, change in culture at the time that was literally the opposite of what Katy released in the early 2010s) and the feud just made it bigger. i still think she can have a comeback tho, especially there's A LOT of hype around KP6
@gem2923 After the start of the Trump era she was one of the first pop girls to release an album, and her first single from witness (Chained to the Rhythm) had a political message. the time was full of tensions and she was openly against Trump, so that affected the public opinion (also i forgot to add in the events the migos collab was also a disastrer, because they made statements against trans people (and refused to perform with them) that made the general public think that her was an anti-lgbt as well (which ofc isn't), but at the same time she was anti-trump, and that only generated hate from both political sides)
@@lollo2626 More so that she was actively campaigning for Hilary's election during that time and a lot of people didn't see her as a trustworthy candidate either. AND that weird Big Brother-style 24/7 live stream that backfired to promote Witness portraying her as unintelligent (Is math related to science?), desperate (that James Corden spill your guts bit), and flat-out creepy (people watching her sleep?!). The latter turned me off from her music for a long time.
@@aaliyahfoster2705 omg yes i forgot the witness world wide😭 that was such a weird way to promote an album and caused so much problems as well. and all of this things happened at the same time, really was horrible
@@RommelManurungwhich is why in turn she tried to buy said masters (business) then when rejected she used a loophole in the contract to own her songs again. All business.
@@ed3nhaz4rdous the problem is she manipulated the narrative by playing victim, again, act as some poor abused bullied victim when it’s all just business and marketing trick to sell new albums. Her action led to many people getting bullied for real, including Braun’s little kids. But sure, she’s never the problem for y’all cult fans
You might like Contrapoints or Lindsay Ellis if you like smart video essays generally. Friendly Space Ninja makes smart videos about TV. D'Angelo Wallace has some videos like this but about youtubers and their feuds on one of his channels.
I've always found it interesting in the slight similarities in PRISM and 1989. Not only that the lead single and album were released at pretty much the exact same time in the years of 2013 and 2014, but the major singles are very reflective of each other. Both ''Roar'' and ''Shake It Off'' were released as power anthems, and both ''Dark Horse'' and ''Blank Space'' were released as darker love songs. I suppose you could also argue that ''Unconditionally'' and ''Wildest Dreams'' have some sonic resemblements. Katy STILL holds the record for most viewed female TH-cam music video, with TWO SONGS (''Roar'' and ''Dark Hose'', both from PRISM). I would argue that 1989 had much more similarity with PRISM, rather than with Teenage Dream.
Disagree on the Unconditionally-Wildest Dreams comparison. Unconditionally sounds like a hymn in a Christian church. Wildest Dreams is clearly evocative of Lana Del Rey. Wildest Dreams TV also adds a folk-pop sound found in late 80s/early 90s songs like the original Fast Car by Tracy Chapman.
@@mr.icecream7880 not at all. It's one of Katy's better songs IMO, but there's a reason it was used for The Passion of the Christ musical that Fox produced in 2016.
@@paullopez2021 yeah, that's fair. But if I would be to compare a song on PRISM that resembles the romantic cinematicness of ''Wildest Dreams'' it would probably be ''Unconditionally'', or ''Legendary Lovers'' (F*CK THAT SHOULDV'E BEEN A SINGLE)
I’d forgotten about just how viral Katy’s music videos were. As much as her visuals are a little gauche and dated now, she really did have far superior reach with her videos compared to Taylor (and everyone else in the industry ofc).
Oh wow, thank you for pointing out that she absolutely made sure Bad Blood was obviously about Katy Perry. And then the later interview where she pretends that she didn't make all the obvious hints. I remember reading that and then going back and double checking the original. I was like, is she gaslighting us? Love Taylor but I disagree with what she did to Katy Perry.
I fully believe Katy's account of her dancers choosing to go back to her instead of stay on Red Tour. Those dancers did get to play a part in the most-watched Super Bowl Half-Time show of all time (at least at that point), so not all was lost! Katy Perry's fall from grace was so abrupt. The woman who sent a throwaway mid tempo ("Rise") used for NBC's Olympics ads to Top 10 couldn't send her second and third singles of Witness era into the Top 40 next year.
I hope so too! The ongoing drama between Sabrina & Olivia now also saddens me coz whilst Taylor is my no.1 queen, I love all 3 of them but the media makes out like you have to pick a ‘side’ which l refuse to!
Taylor stole hundreds of thousands of dollars in royalties from Olivia for deja vu, which was unwarranted and also unnecessary for Taylor to do, so I think that's unlikely
Its actually extreamly smart to keep your employees seperate from your personal life... look at the mess Lizo is in now... it just doesnt make buisness sense. Taylor has made it clear with gifts (her love language) that she cares about her staff... she might not be friends, but they have medical insurance and bonuses.
Zach! Was so thrilled to hear the quick clip of you commenting on Taylor’s lackluster merch on the New York Time’s Popcast Deluxe! Congrats! (Hope you were properly credited though) Thank you for continuing your honest and thoughtful content that we’ve come to expect no less from our favorite Taylor content creator. We all love Taylor, but it is always appreciated to see studiously researched content that does remind everyone that these situations were more complex than the public at large may realize. Taylor has made mistakes and has done other women wrong (though I wholly agree, I think Katy is responsible for the slump in career, she just doesn’t have the artistic ability to maintain the longevity/ fan devotion that Taylor has. Taylor’s just a better artist, but Bad Blood did leave a bad taste in my mouth) Thanks again for the great content! I love Taylor as much as the next Swiftie but I appreciate your ability to articulate that she has made mistakes, is not always perfect, can be calculating (which I don’t think that’s really a bad thing, and has served her well many times) and that there is more nuance to the Katy/Taylor feud than a lot of people probably recognize. I do believe that Taylor has learned from this and grown a lot in the 10 or so years since (caveat: hopefully, RE: TBD after we see how the Olivia Rodrigo situation turns out). Can’t wait for the next video!
I love that Tay completely leave out that SHE has a SCORPIO MARS. Katy is upfront a Scorpio (so much Scorpio, so I do believe she will have a comeback) but Tay is secretly a Scorpio and we see that in the strategic games. Scorpio in Mars is not an accidental bow archer. It’s a .50 cal sniper rifle with a scope 4 klicks away reading your texts
I completely agree with Taylor being competitive with Katy since the very beginning, fighting for the female Popstar iron throne. However, I’m convinced that Katy Perry dating John Mayer was the moment when Taylor completely lost it. It was the last straw! them publicly dating and writing song together… Tay couldn’t handle that… the dancers were just an excuse 😂 Ironically, a video resurfaced, where Travis Kelce had to play “kill, marry, kiss”, and he chose Taylor for a kiss and to marry Katy Perry 😂 Katy felt an urge to publicly support them… ASAP!! just in case…has already been there, poor girl… 😅
Both Gaga and Kesha talked about how mean Katy was in verified private text messages made public through court documents in the Lukasz "Dr. Luke" Gottwald trial. I believe there's a lot of truth to that Taylor quote at 12:20 . But similar to what you said in 10:10 , I also believe it's very likely Taylor that made a mountain of a molehill to dethrone Katy as the #1 pop star in the world. Which makes sense why Katy responded with "watch out for the Regina George in sheep's clothing."
Tayvoodoo is insane. Even when Taylor messes up and outright lies, Tayvoodoo acts up. Looking forward to seeing you talk about Katy Perry's Witness. Definitely gonna listen to Slut and Suburban Legends first.
@@Sami-ci6xg Katy's metal health decline is probably because of John (wouldn't be the first ex of his to experience that). And Olivia's is probably because of fame, unprecedented hate, pressure to follow up the success of sour, a messed up relationship with an older guy, being in a transition phase from teenagehood to adulthood... (I am basing this on her songs)
@@Sami-ci6xg While I do think that Taylor is power hungry, I disagree with the statement that she makes sure that everybody is beneath her to be the only succesful woman. The only genuine threat when it comes to tour numbers is Beyoncé, the only threat to her on the charts for midnights was Sza, the only threat for her when it comes to Billboard entries is Nicki, the only threat to her when it comes to the title of greatest songwriter in the mainstream is Lana (and once upon a time Lorde) and she has publicly shown a lot of support and love to all these women.
@@nilay_nurpretty sure nicki and taylor, lana and taylor and Beyoncé and taylor are all friends idk about sza and taylor tho and the charts was proven not an issue with midnights
Growing up on the age of the internet I have watched people I looked up to (TH-camrs etc) be exposed for being horrible people, I have gained an understanding that people aren’t all that they claim to be. As a long time swiftie, this is especially true. I really applaud you for your ability to recognize that Taylor swift isn’t this perfect person the swifties want her to be.
Great retrospective. Now that you’ve laid everything out like this, I’m inclined to agree that there wasn’t any specific catalyst to the feud, but rather, it was mainly just tensions bubbling over between two extremely successful artists. “The knife cuts both ways; If the shoe fits, walk in it 'til your high heels break”
*standing ovation* As a (male bodied) pop girlie with no real allegiance to anyone but Mother Monster, experiencing these events real-time felt like such a fever dream. It cannot be overstated how deftly and insightfully you’ve broken down this utterly iconic, silly moment in pop cultural history. First time viewer of the channel and instant subscriber. I stan.
This is the reason why I think my perception of hers really changed after the miss Americana documentary. Before that I feel like she has never really been very honest with us or even with herself about how much she actually cares for numbers and public perception and stuff, and she would outright dismiss or lie about stuff, if she feels like the narrative is against her. She refuse to let go of her public image that is this perfect person who can do no wrong, and she refuse to accept the darker part of herself. In her documentary she really for the first time shows to the world that she cares deeply about these things. She really want people to see her as perfect as possible, and she really isn’t at the same time. It was vulnerable and real and emotional for the first time, it felt genuine. It isn’t really directed to any person other than herself, and she really show us her inner thoughts. After the documentary, the very imaginative yet introspective folklore/evermore album, and also the outright admission in the midnight album, finally have her coming to terms with the darker side of her personality. That she hold grudges and she is petty, she cares about numbers and achievements, and she really care about what people think of her, just like all of us. She just feel so much more genuine and not afraid to show us the parts that makes her human. She accepts that she has faults, just like so many of us has. And with the re-recording coming out, im very much looking forward to hear about her uncensored thoughts on the media frenzies of the time and her unfiltered words.
Katy perry does in FACT have the power to make a big comeback.Her career isnt dead(Smile got 1 billion streams).I also feel like agesism for women in the music industry is starting to die down too so there should be no issue.
I think Taylor regreted that interview more than any other. It was very stupid, I can't imagine her doing something like that today. But I must say that I also had just "lost" a friend at that time and listen to "bad blood" every day was necessary!
For my Lover Secret Session picture I asked for us to recreate one of the Mean Girls promo shots of Cady and Regina and can I just say... Taylor ATE that up! She knew exactly what picture I meant before I even finished my sentence and was very excited to recreate it 🤣
Ironic doesn't begin to describe Taylor getting upset over Katy calling her 'calculating' when being calculating is the biggest reason Taylor has prevailed while Katy hasn't. Taylor is not just adaptable but she can draw insights and then make decisions that best leverage current tastes and trends. Katy OTOH can't keep up because she can't read the room anywhere as well AND her skillset is limited.
Katy was the main pop girl back then (from 2010 to 2013). She was the definition of pop music. It was hit after hit after hit. Dark Horse was a big hit in 2014, but Taylor replaced Katy when she released 1989 album. She became the main pop girl after 1989… She was it girl, she was the main pop girl. It really was a competition for Taylor. It's so terrible to constantly pit two successful women against each other ☹️
Taylor in this conflict gives off “wounded animal” she was hurt from a minor inconvenience and expected more from a fellow female artist that she thought was slightly closer with and then decided to lash out and release bad blood and get personal over this incident. Taylor was irritated and naive and let her emotions handle her business. which was unfortunate for katy as she didn’t do anything wrong and never made it personal until taylor did.
I'm a huge KP fan. I've always loved her and I've had loyalty to her since the beginning. Taylor did always seem calculated to me and her being shocked at every award show about winning every award did irritate me, while I kinda liked the music it wasn't until 1989 that I really enjoyed Taylor. The original comments from Taylor about Katy kinda rubbed me the wrong way but I went to the Prismatic World Tour and I also went to the 1989 World Tour because I was a fan of both albums. It wasn't until Taylor pettily dropped the old albums on spotify that it really started to bother me. Taylor, especially now speaks so much about artistic integrity and people respecting art and music and to do something so hateful and rude towards someone's new art that fans waited four years for was such a bombshell thing I still have trouble forgiving Taylor for it. I like Taylor's music now more than ever but I've always had problems with this behaviour and an aquarius never forgets.
To add to this: I felt it was very unpleasant how she said “you say sorry just for show” and yet she made up with Katy in the You need to Calm Down music video to pump up the viewership of her video. I love Taylor’s music but she has made some mistakes as well. I guess she addressed this with Anti Hero and the “narcissism covert as altruism”
agreed completely except for the surprise thing in early years of her career - like you can tell it was genuine surprise from Taylor when she was nominated for entertainer of the year in 2008 or something, there's a lot of videos of it and that didn't strike out to me as fake at all especially since that was only 2 years into her career
Tea. And speaking of unforgivable pettiness, I always thought the KP portryal in the LWYMMD MV (holding the Grammy) was a low blow… Teenage Dream deserved better 😣
First of all. Thanks for creating value content thought through. Glad I'm not the only swiftie that can see the shade thrown over Katy, I really miss her and I didn't feel I could call myself a swiftie before this reconciliation even tho I was singing my lungs out since Our Song. Great works, thanks for sharing the complex rounded person that is TS.
It seems to me that this feud in hindsight was good for Taylor. She tried to maintain the good girl image while attacking other artist, it obviously didn't work out as well as she'd hoped and contributed to her downfall. She basically was taught a lesson and came across as more honest and self-aware in her Reputation era. Doesn't mean she didn't do cause some damage in the process, of course.
i love you content, in fact you're the only swiftie i watch. i'm all for critical viewpoints, also you can tell how much work you put to make your videos 👏🏻🥰
While I still think the world was too hard on Taylor back in 2016, with the snakegate or whatever, Taylor had started to rub people the wrong way for a while at that point, with the Bad Blood music video and the girlsquad and stuff. She can't say she was blameless when her reputation took a nosedive.
Thank you! I have wanted a picture of that feud forever! You summed it up so well. Thank you. Though I believe Katy Perry did get blasted - I think the better artist rose to the top and would have regardless of Witness did better on the charts. Also - where Taylor grew up with other cool kids not wanting to hang with her - the cool Katy not being nice was probably triggering and she may have been acting some repressed anger and it made her feelings towards Katy amplify. Past middle school drama can totally screw with you head.
As someone who was born in 2005, Teenage Dream was a big thing for my childhood. I didn’t know who Taylor was until 2013 with 22, and 1989 in late elementary and early middle school redefined my childhood. In the end at 18, I listen to Taylor everyday and Katy… not as much Edit: I love the bad blood remix… (I also love Kendrick Lamar)
I agree with some of what you said but you really undermined just how bad Katy was too 😭 Katy is just as calculated and manipulative and one of the biggest pick me’s in the industry. If Taylor didn’t try and bury Katy, then Katy would try and bury Taylor. They’re both pretty manipulative people and Katy is not incapable of punching down. Her dating Taylor’s emotionally abusive ex is punching down, scamming the elderly for their mansions is punching down, her stealing Taylor’s back up dancers is punching down. I feel like no one ever talks abt this situation in a way that’s fair to both sides. It’s either Taylor Swift is a bully and Katie’s the victim or Katy had what was coming to her. I just saw two catty women trying to destroy each other socially. 🤷🏻♀️
Once again, you have made a wonderful video essay and I just love how you never pick one side. It's never just "Taylor's a villain" or "She's an angel" it's just "Taylor is." and clever journalism. This is why your videos are some of the most fun to watch. I'll admit I was too young to really know or really care during this feud, but my bff was a Katy stan and so I was naturally "on her side". It's a refreshing view to see that in most feuds like this there is no winner or loser. It's also been a hard pill to swallow that truth, because it might hit a little too close to home. I am a very clear over-thinker and this sometimes leads to me coming up with the most ridiculous scenarios and I wonder if sometimes Taylor suffers the same way. It's also tough because due to this, Taylor is a very relatable person to me and I do hold her close to my heart. I don't go as far to idolise her (your videos are a godsend) but I still do love her a lot because I relate to her. So when I watch these videos, I do sometimes ruminate over whether I have done stuff like that. But now I take it as a sign to talk with someone instead of letting "tensions brew" in my head and have a HEALTHY reflection. I do still enjoy Katy's music and now that the ageism and pitting people against each other is (relatively) starting to slow down within the industry and pop culture, I hope she can make a comeback.
So do you agree that she’s had a revisionist history of snake gate? Because she did say to Kanye “do whatever you think is best with the line…and I just think it’s really cool you even called me about a lyric to make sure I didn’t feel bad” and “yea I might have sold millions of records but if you didn’t know who I was, that was your truth and you have to speak your truth”. And now the feud is just with Kim and she’s the one who orchestrated the whole thing but she’s not even mentioning Kanye. It’s like she can’t stand that Kim didn’t get her “Karma”.
As a Katycat and a Swiftie it's nice to see a balanced and fair view on this. I may be in the minority but I really think Katy could make a decent comeback if she reinvents her previous sound and actually promotes like she used to while being aware of the changes in the industry such as the impact of tiktok. One of her best songs in recent years Harleys in Hawaii recently went viral for the 2nd time and created a tiktok trend so theres an audience of some form for new music there (a lot of casual fans who maybe loved her in 2010 werent even aware that it existed) She's never gonna reach her peak again but she could comeback with a decent album and good singles and have a Kylie Minogue-esque career moving forward. I do think she could do an arena tour still with the right album and going to the right places. The problem is she leaves long gaps between records and loses any engagement she has.
You are literally my favorite TH-cam Channel right now and it's a travesty that you don't have more subscribers. Keep up the good work and I know you'll make it
Can I just say that you are such a breath of fresh air in the Swiftie fandom? I get so annoyed that you can't give ONE remotely nuanced take on discourse related to Taylor without an army of unhinged Swifties springing to her defense and acting like you're the worst person in the world, even if you yourself are a fan 🙄
Katy also aged out of pop stardom like Taylor expected to after Lover. And Taylor was a mean girl during that time. I think she wanted to be pop queen bee and be the popular girl she wasn’t in high school. She was obsessed with looking like a VS model while trying to be a feminist. Her downfall in 2016 was partially her fault. She needed to grow up. And I think she did. I at least hope she has.
Taylor’s midheaven/10th house, the house associated with careers and public perception, is in Scorpio, with her Mars in Scorpio(planet of energy/initiative) in the 10th house 😅
This is the most randomness thing, but Zack influenced me with his plants. I spent some big bucks on a Eucalyptus plant because of seeing it in the background of his videos 😅
Loved the video! I love the humour and facts in this video 😂 “They dressed up as burger and fries, and hugged in one of the worst music videos for one of her worst songs, amazing…” Laughed so hard, and I actually like YNTCD 😂
I'd like to mention that when the BB video came out, only Swifties were ok with it. Everyone else thought it was psychotic and a hundred parodies about how crazy Taylor was for it came out.
The whole talk about everyone in the girl squad getting along and never fighting SCREAMS toxic positivity to me. Also Taylor during this era was giving "if you ever disagree with me you're my #1 enemy" instead of having a meaningful discussion of why you felt hurt.
I genuinely believe she is a caring and warm person, but she has narcissistic threats. When she reaches a certain level of success, as we saw in several peaks she has had in her career; her ego comes to a point when she does stuff to damage her competition, Katy Perry and Olivia Rodrigo are just a couple of examples. Still, she never does it with people she knows are equally or more talented or famous than her, such as Beyonce or Ariana Grande, and by the way the latter directly supported Scooter. Hopefully, now that she is at the super top but she is older and more mature, she celebrates competition and leaves people alone. I still love her, but it is healthy to recognize her primary flaw is her ego or the lack of
I feel like with Olivia she wasn't really mean. Olivia went around telling everyone the song is inspired by Taylor and from what I heard Olivias Team offered Taylor the credit. I think Taylor just felt like she would give an artist a credit too if she was so heavily inspired by them as Olivia claimed to be inspired by Taylor. The general public were the ones making it seem like Olivia is unoriginal or a bad writer. Also, Olivias Team clearly tried to position her as "the new Taylor Swift" which is a little shady too considering how ageist the music industry is in general. I get how Taylor would be hurt by that when she is clearly alive and releasing music. And now that that kind of marketing backfired people like to say it's Taylors fault. Yes, Olivia is a new artist but she had huge success with her debut album and isn't that much of an underdog as people like to make it seem. People can think of credits what they want but the fact is that they are very common in the music industry.
I feel like Taylor back then shot against people who she feels ldon't respect her as an artist. Beyonce always supported her and poor Ariana had so much shitty things happen to her, even Taylor wouldn't traumatize her even more😅 With the scooter braun situation there were just too many targets if she were to go against every single person who had a relationship with him.
@@XEveryoneLovesEmilyX Olivia’s team said something along the lines “People get funny when songs get really famous” implying that they HAD to give credits, probably a cease and desist letter was sent, probably not, but Taylor also benefited from that “Olivia is Taylor daughter” narrative because when Olivia came around she went super viral and Taylor had a rough time free lover was not as well received as other albums… so she was fine with all of that and then she did not when saw Olivia as real competition, I agree Olivia had a lot to learn but that does not make it okay for Taylor being literally crying for her masters and song writers rights and then allegedly doing that to Olivia, is just mean girl vibes
@@XEveryoneLovesEmilyX Ariana was very shady congratulating a post from someone saying “You just bought Taylor Swift” literally talking about Taylor as an object, I don’t know, I think is pretty convenient Taylor only goes off after people less talented or new in the industry, for me is says a lot, in my opinion
@@karylochai257 It wasn't just Taylor who got credits maybe it was one of the other artists too🤷♀️...I just think people are quick to judge when we really don't have a lot of information about the situation. I think the media just made the story bigger than what it actually was.
…and all of these reasons and more (that you have so hilariously and eloquently stated 👏🏻) are the other reasons I actually held a horrid taste in my mouth with Taylor. I definitely respected her calculation, I mean “shooting from the hip” talents, but she did have a lot to learn. Now, I find her far more appealing and down to earth, while also being a the c*nty queen she is. I think her relationship w Moe and the drama prior, mixed with the panorama really did a world of good for her. Well…hopefully. As I’m still pondering this entire “friendship” with Carpenter (who is talented but IMO not anywhere close to deserving the eras tour openers so often, as we don’t truly know who much she actually writes in her music) and Rodrigo becoming the new generation or equivalent of Swift. She’s definitely not Swift, but she is a very formidable talent. It either broke people or elevated them. Great breakdown.
Love your take on this! Really objective and interesting, I even laughed many times :D I was wondering, would you be interested in making a video about Taylor and Calvin? I feel like he's such a confusing character when trying to understand Taylor's career and life. I could use some essay about that if you'd like :)
"She's a revisionist historian", "she stopped doing interviews because she contradicts herself literally every ten seconds". I think a great example of this is when she was on Ellen discussing sea urchins being her greatest fear 😏.
i love how you never sugarcoat what you say about taylor. it really shows her as a more flawed, complicated and interesting character.
Omg same.
Right!!
That's what I appreciate too. He puts it perfectly when he has said in the past that it's sometimes hard to ride for Taylor. She is a human being, like the rest of us. Not a God. Even people we love and fan girl over have room for criticism, as we all do.
Lmaooo "interesting character" girlie is just a petty rich girl
I love that you're not one sided. It's very refreshing for you to not just agree with everything she does just because she's Taylor Swift. People make mistakes. Even her.
thank you!! that's one of my main focuses as a creator
I was going to say the same 🙌🏼
I’m a huge 1D (the band and the boys) fan and I don’t think I could publicly call them out if they did something worth calling out like Zach is doing here 😅
I’m definitely here for it
100%
This! Totally agree!
@@theswiftologist Why do you think Taylor didn't try to neutralize Adele? Could you make a video with who Taylor couldn't reach?
Given this all happened during the Tumblr "not like other girls" era, Taylor at this time strikes me as someone who had a basic idea of what feminism is but didn't quite get the nuances of it
a valiant effort at sometimes, an opportunistic approach at others...
I don’t think it’s that she didn’t understand it, she just saw it as a tool to support her narrative and to defend herself when she feels she’s being attacked. To this day she’s mostly talked about it when someone talks about her dating history in a way she doesn’t like, possibly because she still hasn’t completely let go of her good girl complex
I feel like we don’t talk enough about Taylor releasing her entire catalog the day Katy was releasing her album. It lives rent-free in my head.
That was so lame. I’ll never forgive her for that. You’re literally 28
@@Unused_Pineapple well girl you should, Katy Perry did and it was about her not you.
let’s not forget that taylor’s diss track was on that album katy released…
@@lyna.shanelnah she keeps releasing stuff when other artists release music and it's getting tiredddd
@@lyna.shanel she probably "apologised" to taylor to stop the long reign of being overshadowed by taylor and just to get her off her back. tay probably wouldnt have spared her even after rep if katy hadn't offered to make up.
I would argue that Taylor did play a larger part in Katy’s downfall than many would think. I agree that Katy’s artistry wasn’t sustainable to have a long career but we also often overlook how much mental health play into an artist’s career choices. When you have one of the biggest pop stars on the planet assembling girl squad to alienate/bully you and turning their fans against you it would take a mental toll on you, and I hold onto the belief that it altered Katy’s brain chemistry to some extent that shaped Witness era to be about being vulnerable/having something to prove. Like if the feud never happened, swish swish wouldn’t have existed and this era might be a lot different, might focus on real artistry growth than circling a portion of it around the feud, appearing to be a try-hard, having identity crisis etc. Witness era felt like the feud “got” to her, that made her act a certain way and drove away some of her audience. That’s my take on it
Blaming Taylor for Katy's downfall. Taylor faced a whole hate train yet came back stronger. It's on Katy and her outdated music choices that made her the irrelevant artist she is today
@@jeelee3096 Not blaming her but saying it’s a factor which a lot of people refuse to admit it played a part at all. So Taylor bounced back from the hate train and Katy couldn’t. Obviously not everyone is Taylor Swift, and not everyone bounces back. But should we say if someone couldn’t make a 100% perfect comeback plan and rise above from a low point, they deserve it? or is it the unnecessary hate train that shouldn’t have been there in the first place?
@@Cici-kq1ft Katy had a hate train coz of her own stupid decisions during Witness
@@jeelee3096idolatrous
this. taylor swift's yt woman feminism is just not it...
When I tell people that during 1989 I enjoyed her music but took a step back from liking her they get so defensive about it. They’re always like it was her mgmt team but I saw this drama and girl squad and did not like it
fair enough! couldn't be me, but I can see why
She definitely had to grow on me again over time but I always listened to and loved her music. It may have just been extra hard for me during 1989 bc I was in high school and there were those mean girl squads lol
Sounds like internalized misogyny.
"One of the worst music videos from one of the worst songs..." YES. THANK YOU. My friend and I talk about this all the time.
yntcd wishes it was as excellent as bad blood
I think it is the main reason Lover wasnt as big
I love yntcd tbh 😭 but yeah, I agree it’s not her best work
It’s all about being nice to people that are different. 🤷♂️
I just discovered your channel and podcast and can I just say - wow! The level of professionalism, journalistic skills and critical analysis you have is second to none in the Swiftie community. Great job Zachary!
thank you so much!! that means a lot to me
Katy really did the right thing. Overlook this nonsense beef.
Sadly it ended poorly for her regardless ofushdjs
Katy was mentioning Taylor and taking about her everywhere. Going to Kanye's concert and posting clips of singing to that lyric. She's an awful person overall
@@jeelee3096better than revenge
@@rosanaconta3416 Lyrics she wrote as a teenager, reflected and felt remorse over her mistake and changed the lyric
@@jeelee3096 Taylor started the whole thing. Were you there when the Taylor Nation attacked?
Ok now I understand why you describe 1989 Taylor as a cyborg lmao
cyborg behaviour
Taylor is trained to be a politician honestly. She'd make a popular dictator
Just wait
I'd vote for her and I'm not even kidding.
Can we all take moment and appreciate our very own Swiftologist whose power of analysis / critical thinking in the Taylor Nation world is unheard of ? Also, Zach never takes any time of, ever! Thank you Zach for all this amazing content! 👏🏻👏🏻🔥🔥🙏🏻😍
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Zach deserves 1M subs, at the bare minimum. Most underrated creator on this platform, by far!
🎉💙
@@paullopez2021 Totally! Let’s spread the word and get Zach to 1M till 1980 TV comes out! 🔥🔥💪🏻💪🏻
Yasss!!!
I swear I have only ever heard the same three sentence summary of this no matter when or who. So I GREATLY appreciate the actual analysis and in depth information.
thanks for watching!!
I hated this feud. I love Taylor and this feud was the dumbest shit ever. I felt pretty bad for Katy during this time and I’m glad they reconciled.
REAL
I still think it’s weird to get mad at someone for “taking” their dancers, like there aren’t enough dancers out there to hire?? Also, I think it could’ve been interesting if the two reconciled by writing songs for each other or featuring on each other’s songs or appearing on stage to sing a duet.
Katy is just a bad friend
@@GoodFangbetter than revenge and john mayer
I think it was intentional though. I mean, I know it’s business, but Taylor wouldn’t do that if someone was on a tour. it’s shitty business. katy is meh
i love how this really shows how scary tayvoodoo is like even when she is very blatantly in the wrong in a situation, her cosmic powers are simply too strong and she still comes out on top anyway😭😭
the voodoo can come for anyone at anytime
That’s what happens when you concentrate on creating a parasocial fan base. No shade to her, but that’s clearly what happened. She had her own army
I'd love for you to make a nuanced video on Taylor's public relationships. I will always defend her right to use relationships as inspiration for her songs, because at the end of the day she's an artist and artists tend to project their personal lives through art. But at the same time, i feel like she knew what she was doing when she would appear publicly with her boyfriends. As a celebrity, you should know that everything you publicize will garner attention and awaken controversy. Even though the backlash was harsh and sexist, it also kept her very relevant.
I defend that right too! and totally believe that you reap what you sow in that sense as well. I think she knows that
Taylor was a chaotic mess in the 1989 era. She was very ambitious and I think she didn't mind having some colateral damage, as long as everything went well. I guess, we also have to consider Taylor was very young. I'm not excusing her behaviour, but she was dealing with a lot in this era.
I think being cancelled, her personal struggles made her have a turn of heart and mature a lot. It was a much needed character development.
it was a lot going on! and she learned valuable lessons that led her to where she is now
24 is not young tbh
@@lucasb9285yes it is 😭
@@zzdreams66it's not, she's 24 almost a grown adult hitting 25 she knows better
@@KonaJsksks it is. I don’t know how old you are but your brain isn’t even fully developed until 25 and looking back at being 24 it’s still young
Your journalistic skills always impress me. The Swiftologist just does not miss!
thank you so much Brooke!! always love seeing you in the premiere chats
Zach's journalistic and analytical prowess is truly unmatched among public-facing pop culture enthusiasts. This coverage was excellent. One of my most valued You Tube subscriptions.
I just love these super insightful videos. Zack you TRULY have a gift of explaining pop culture in an intelligent yet exciting way. Rolling Stone needs to hire you ASAP.
thank you so much heather!!
“I hate you Katy Perry, and I want you to fail” had me screaming 🤣🤣🤣
I mean did I lie...
Girl, you have done it again, constantly raising the bar for us all and doing it flawlessly.
tbh Katy's downfall was a mix of a lot of events (Trump era started, change in appearance, change in music style, change in culture at the time that was literally the opposite of what Katy released in the early 2010s) and the feud just made it bigger. i still think she can have a comeback tho, especially there's A LOT of hype around KP6
@gem2923 After the start of the Trump era she was one of the first pop girls to release an album, and her first single from witness (Chained to the Rhythm) had a political message. the time was full of tensions and she was openly against Trump, so that affected the public opinion (also i forgot to add in the events the migos collab was also a disastrer, because they made statements against trans people (and refused to perform with them) that made the general public think that her was an anti-lgbt as well (which ofc isn't), but at the same time she was anti-trump, and that only generated hate from both political sides)
@@lollo2626 More so that she was actively campaigning for Hilary's election during that time and a lot of people didn't see her as a trustworthy candidate either. AND that weird Big Brother-style 24/7 live stream that backfired to promote Witness portraying her as unintelligent (Is math related to science?), desperate (that James Corden spill your guts bit), and flat-out creepy (people watching her sleep?!). The latter turned me off from her music for a long time.
@@aaliyahfoster2705 omg yes i forgot the witness world wide😭 that was such a weird way to promote an album and caused so much problems as well. and all of this things happened at the same time, really was horrible
If she had written an anti-Trump song that was actually good it would have gone well for her.
The music was shit so no one cared.
what hype though? she barely has fans now and is doing gigs at corps and voicing characters for Peppa Pig
“It’s not personal. It’s strictly Business.”
Michael Corleone. The Godfather.
I’m screaming
Then she shouldn’t get upset when other people bought the master. It’s just business
@@RommelManurungwhich is why in turn she tried to buy said masters (business) then when rejected she used a loophole in the contract to own her songs again. All business.
@@ed3nhaz4rdous the problem is she manipulated the narrative by playing victim, again, act as some poor abused bullied victim when it’s all just business and marketing trick to sell new albums. Her action led to many people getting bullied for real, including Braun’s little kids. But sure, she’s never the problem for y’all cult fans
Your frequent uploads give me life!! Really cannot find an equivalent to this type of content on TH-cam.
You might like Contrapoints or Lindsay Ellis if you like smart video essays generally. Friendly Space Ninja makes smart videos about TV. D'Angelo Wallace has some videos like this but about youtubers and their feuds on one of his channels.
popstars were insane back in the day omg we need that drama back
I've always found it interesting in the slight similarities in PRISM and 1989. Not only that the lead single and album were released at pretty much the exact same time in the years of 2013 and 2014, but the major singles are very reflective of each other. Both ''Roar'' and ''Shake It Off'' were released as power anthems, and both ''Dark Horse'' and ''Blank Space'' were released as darker love songs. I suppose you could also argue that ''Unconditionally'' and ''Wildest Dreams'' have some sonic resemblements. Katy STILL holds the record for most viewed female TH-cam music video, with TWO SONGS (''Roar'' and ''Dark Hose'', both from PRISM). I would argue that 1989 had much more similarity with PRISM, rather than with Teenage Dream.
Disagree on the Unconditionally-Wildest Dreams comparison. Unconditionally sounds like a hymn in a Christian church. Wildest Dreams is clearly evocative of Lana Del Rey. Wildest Dreams TV also adds a folk-pop sound found in late 80s/early 90s songs like the original Fast Car by Tracy Chapman.
@@paullopez2021um is that supposed to be an insult to unconditionally? That song is beautiful.
@@mr.icecream7880 not at all. It's one of Katy's better songs IMO, but there's a reason it was used for The Passion of the Christ musical that Fox produced in 2016.
@@paullopez2021 yeah, that's fair. But if I would be to compare a song on PRISM that resembles the romantic cinematicness of ''Wildest Dreams'' it would probably be ''Unconditionally'', or ''Legendary Lovers'' (F*CK THAT SHOULDV'E BEEN A SINGLE)
I’d forgotten about just how viral Katy’s music videos were. As much as her visuals are a little gauche and dated now, she really did have far superior reach with her videos compared to Taylor (and everyone else in the industry ofc).
Oh wow, thank you for pointing out that she absolutely made sure Bad Blood was obviously about Katy Perry. And then the later interview where she pretends that she didn't make all the obvious hints. I remember reading that and then going back and double checking the original. I was like, is she gaslighting us?
Love Taylor but I disagree with what she did to Katy Perry.
YESSS NODAYSOFFOLOGIST IS BACK
@@BasuraVidzthat's the point it's bcz he has no days off😂
your thumbnails are getting better and better. nodaysoffologist strikes again ‼️
Thumbnailologist?
@@theswiftologist YES
Your coverage never misses. So articulate & well thought-out. 🙌👏🙌
thanks for watching
I fully believe Katy's account of her dancers choosing to go back to her instead of stay on Red Tour. Those dancers did get to play a part in the most-watched Super Bowl Half-Time show of all time (at least at that point), so not all was lost!
Katy Perry's fall from grace was so abrupt. The woman who sent a throwaway mid tempo ("Rise") used for NBC's Olympics ads to Top 10 couldn't send her second and third singles of Witness era into the Top 40 next year.
I do wonder if Taylor had something to do with that. She's very connected.
i wonder if 10 years from now olivia and taylor would become "friends" again
i would love them to tbh
I hope so too! The ongoing drama between Sabrina & Olivia now also saddens me coz whilst Taylor is my no.1 queen, I love all 3 of them but the media makes out like you have to pick a ‘side’ which l refuse to!
Taylor stole hundreds of thousands of dollars in royalties from Olivia for deja vu, which was unwarranted and also unnecessary for Taylor to do, so I think that's unlikely
They’re literally 14 years apart lmfao they have no business being that kind of “friends”
@@halesjs2316 what 😭 were they not some version of friends pre deja vu?
another amazing analysis king, u never fail to be a great journalist.
Its actually extreamly smart to keep your employees seperate from your personal life... look at the mess Lizo is in now... it just doesnt make buisness sense. Taylor has made it clear with gifts (her love language) that she cares about her staff... she might not be friends, but they have medical insurance and bonuses.
you don't get to where Taylor is without setting firm boundaries with your employees.
sorry but I always kinda lowkey sympathized with Katy in this situation
from the beginning
Zach! Was so thrilled to hear the quick clip of you commenting on Taylor’s lackluster merch on the New York Time’s Popcast Deluxe! Congrats! (Hope you were properly credited though) Thank you for continuing your honest and thoughtful content that we’ve come to expect no less from our favorite Taylor content creator. We all love Taylor, but it is always appreciated to see studiously researched content that does remind everyone that these situations were more complex than the public at large may realize. Taylor has made mistakes and has done other women wrong (though I wholly agree, I think Katy is responsible for the slump in career, she just doesn’t have the artistic ability to maintain the longevity/ fan devotion that Taylor has. Taylor’s just a better artist, but Bad Blood did leave a bad taste in my mouth)
Thanks again for the great content! I love Taylor as much as the next Swiftie but I appreciate your ability to articulate that she has made mistakes, is not always perfect, can be calculating (which I don’t think that’s really a bad thing, and has served her well many times) and that there is more nuance to the Katy/Taylor feud than a lot of people probably recognize. I do believe that Taylor has learned from this and grown a lot in the 10 or so years since (caveat: hopefully, RE: TBD after we see how the Olivia Rodrigo situation turns out). Can’t wait for the next video!
thank you so much Kelsey I really appreciate your kind words!!
Olivia is cancelled
Taylor saying she hates conflicts 🤣
I love that Tay completely leave out that SHE has a SCORPIO MARS. Katy is upfront a Scorpio (so much Scorpio, so I do believe she will have a comeback) but Tay is secretly a Scorpio and we see that in the strategic games. Scorpio in Mars is not an accidental bow archer. It’s a .50 cal sniper rifle with a scope 4 klicks away reading your texts
Taylor also has a Scorpio midheaven, the house of careers and public perception
Taylor’s rising sign is Scorpio. That is what all the astrologers are saying now. She also has a Scorpio stellium.
I completely agree with Taylor being competitive with Katy since the very beginning, fighting for the female Popstar iron throne. However, I’m convinced that Katy Perry dating John Mayer was the moment when Taylor completely lost it. It was the last straw! them publicly dating and writing song together… Tay couldn’t handle that… the dancers were just an excuse 😂
Ironically, a video resurfaced, where Travis Kelce had to play “kill, marry, kiss”, and he chose Taylor for a kiss and to marry Katy Perry 😂 Katy felt an urge to publicly support them… ASAP!! just in case…has already been there, poor girl… 😅
Both Gaga and Kesha talked about how mean Katy was in verified private text messages made public through court documents in the Lukasz "Dr. Luke" Gottwald trial. I believe there's a lot of truth to that Taylor quote at 12:20 . But similar to what you said in 10:10 , I also believe it's very likely Taylor that made a mountain of a molehill to dethrone Katy as the #1 pop star in the world. Which makes sense why Katy responded with "watch out for the Regina George in sheep's clothing."
Yup I don't doubt that each side was talking smack about each other. But only one person made it public
@@theswiftologistoh go to hell katy doesn't need anymore hate she was needlessly bullied and she's a really good person
You’re so good at what you do Zack!
Cant Wait. Been waiting ever since you announced it. Love the thumbnail!
Very well done video on the feud. Makes me nostalgic for the Teenage Dream era.
A MOMENT TO BEHOLD....
Tayvoodoo is insane. Even when Taylor messes up and outright lies, Tayvoodoo acts up.
Looking forward to seeing you talk about Katy Perry's Witness.
Definitely gonna listen to Slut and Suburban Legends first.
@@Sami-ci6xgThere are many reasons why witness flopped. It wasn't just Taylor's doing.
@@Sami-ci6xg Katy's metal health decline is probably because of John (wouldn't be the first ex of his to experience that). And Olivia's is probably because of fame, unprecedented hate, pressure to follow up the success of sour, a messed up relationship with an older guy, being in a transition phase from teenagehood to adulthood... (I am basing this on her songs)
@@Sami-ci6xg While I do think that Taylor is power hungry, I disagree with the statement that she makes sure that everybody is beneath her to be the only succesful woman. The only genuine threat when it comes to tour numbers is Beyoncé, the only threat to her on the charts for midnights was Sza, the only threat for her when it comes to Billboard entries is Nicki, the only threat to her when it comes to the title of greatest songwriter in the mainstream is Lana (and once upon a time Lorde) and she has publicly shown a lot of support and love to all these women.
@nilay_nur Exactly. People are blowing her competitiveness way out of proportion. She's shown support for others many times.
@@nilay_nurpretty sure nicki and taylor, lana and taylor and Beyoncé and taylor are all friends idk about sza and taylor tho and the charts was proven not an issue with midnights
the thumbnail slays
Growing up on the age of the internet I have watched people I looked up to (TH-camrs etc) be exposed for being horrible people, I have gained an understanding that people aren’t all that they claim to be. As a long time swiftie, this is especially true. I really applaud you for your ability to recognize that Taylor swift isn’t this perfect person the swifties want her to be.
Great retrospective. Now that you’ve laid everything out like this, I’m inclined to agree that there wasn’t any specific catalyst to the feud, but rather, it was mainly just tensions bubbling over between two extremely successful artists. “The knife cuts both ways; If the shoe fits, walk in it 'til your high heels break”
ooooh great lyric pull
The connection you made between E.T and bad blood is honestly blowing my mind
*standing ovation*
As a (male bodied) pop girlie with no real allegiance to anyone but Mother Monster, experiencing these events real-time felt like such a fever dream. It cannot be overstated how deftly and insightfully you’ve broken down this utterly iconic, silly moment in pop cultural history.
First time viewer of the channel and instant subscriber. I stan.
This is the reason why I think my perception of hers really changed after the miss Americana documentary.
Before that I feel like she has never really been very honest with us or even with herself about how much she actually cares for numbers and public perception and stuff, and she would outright dismiss or lie about stuff, if she feels like the narrative is against her. She refuse to let go of her public image that is this perfect person who can do no wrong, and she refuse to accept the darker part of herself.
In her documentary she really for the first time shows to the world that she cares deeply about these things. She really want people to see her as perfect as possible, and she really isn’t at the same time. It was vulnerable and real and emotional for the first time, it felt genuine. It isn’t really directed to any person other than herself, and she really show us her inner thoughts.
After the documentary, the very imaginative yet introspective folklore/evermore album, and also the outright admission in the midnight album, finally have her coming to terms with the darker side of her personality. That she hold grudges and she is petty, she cares about numbers and achievements, and she really care about what people think of her, just like all of us. She just feel so much more genuine and not afraid to show us the parts that makes her human. She accepts that she has faults, just like so many of us has.
And with the re-recording coming out, im very much looking forward to hear about her uncensored thoughts on the media frenzies of the time and her unfiltered words.
I love people who think with nuance. Great video Zac
Katy perry does in FACT have the power to make a big comeback.Her career isnt dead(Smile got 1 billion streams).I also feel like agesism for women in the music industry is starting to die down too so there should be no issue.
And she just killed those chances by working with Dr Luke...
realizing i'd never be able to be a celebrity bc i'd be just as petty and annoying as taylor. if not even more😭
I think Taylor regreted that interview more than any other. It was very stupid, I can't imagine her doing something like that today. But I must say that I also had just "lost" a friend at that time and listen to "bad blood" every day was necessary!
Yaaaaaa she should've just....NOT SAID it
I don’t know how I got here , I really thought I was a really casual fan of swift, but I watch every one of your videos the second I see them lol
I've sucked you in .... stay a while!!
For my Lover Secret Session picture I asked for us to recreate one of the Mean Girls promo shots of Cady and Regina and can I just say... Taylor ATE that up! She knew exactly what picture I meant before I even finished my sentence and was very excited to recreate it 🤣
💀💀
Ironic doesn't begin to describe Taylor getting upset over Katy calling her 'calculating' when being calculating is the biggest reason Taylor has prevailed while Katy hasn't. Taylor is not just adaptable but she can draw insights and then make decisions that best leverage current tastes and trends. Katy OTOH can't keep up because she can't read the room anywhere as well AND her skillset is limited.
I would love to watch a KP video about her career's ups and downs :) thanks for all the content
definitely coming!
One thing I really appreciate is Taylor's growth as a person over the years. She has learned lessons on being the archer and being the prey.
Katy was the main pop girl back then (from 2010 to 2013). She was the definition of pop music. It was hit after hit after hit. Dark Horse was a big hit in 2014, but Taylor replaced Katy when she released 1989 album. She became the main pop girl after 1989… She was it girl, she was the main pop girl. It really was a competition for Taylor.
It's so terrible to constantly pit two successful women against each other ☹️
Well, Taylor started it.
Taylor in this conflict gives off “wounded animal” she was hurt from a minor inconvenience and expected more from a fellow female artist that she thought was slightly closer with and then decided to lash out and release bad blood and get personal over this incident. Taylor was irritated and naive and let her emotions handle her business. which was unfortunate for katy as she didn’t do anything wrong and never made it personal until taylor did.
Absolutely love your content and podcast!!! So refreshing to see a more critical approach to anything Taylor related 🧡👏🏽 bravo!!
I'm a huge KP fan. I've always loved her and I've had loyalty to her since the beginning. Taylor did always seem calculated to me and her being shocked at every award show about winning every award did irritate me, while I kinda liked the music it wasn't until 1989 that I really enjoyed Taylor. The original comments from Taylor about Katy kinda rubbed me the wrong way but I went to the Prismatic World Tour and I also went to the 1989 World Tour because I was a fan of both albums. It wasn't until Taylor pettily dropped the old albums on spotify that it really started to bother me. Taylor, especially now speaks so much about artistic integrity and people respecting art and music and to do something so hateful and rude towards someone's new art that fans waited four years for was such a bombshell thing I still have trouble forgiving Taylor for it. I like Taylor's music now more than ever but I've always had problems with this behaviour and an aquarius never forgets.
To add to this: I felt it was very unpleasant how she said “you say sorry just for show” and yet she made up with Katy in the You need to Calm Down music video to pump up the viewership of her video. I love Taylor’s music but she has made some mistakes as well. I guess she addressed this with Anti Hero and the “narcissism covert as altruism”
agreed completely except for the surprise thing in early years of her career - like you can tell it was genuine surprise from Taylor when she was nominated for entertainer of the year in 2008 or something, there's a lot of videos of it and that didn't strike out to me as fake at all especially since that was only 2 years into her career
Tea. And speaking of unforgivable pettiness, I always thought the KP portryal in the LWYMMD MV (holding the Grammy) was a low blow… Teenage Dream deserved better 😣
@@elenagerhardy2636 Grammys are overrated anyway XD
I thought the world was gonna explode when Bad Bloods video dropped
First of all. Thanks for creating value content thought through. Glad I'm not the only swiftie that can see the shade thrown over Katy, I really miss her and I didn't feel I could call myself a swiftie before this reconciliation even tho I was singing my lungs out since Our Song. Great works, thanks for sharing the complex rounded person that is TS.
It seems to me that this feud in hindsight was good for Taylor. She tried to maintain the good girl image while attacking other artist, it obviously didn't work out as well as she'd hoped and contributed to her downfall. She basically was taught a lesson and came across as more honest and self-aware in her Reputation era. Doesn't mean she didn't do cause some damage in the process, of course.
I loved how objective this is. thanks!
How dare you premiere this in the middle of the night the one time I need to go to bed to get up early
i love you content, in fact you're the only swiftie i watch. i'm all for critical viewpoints, also you can tell how much work you put to make your videos 👏🏻🥰
thank you so much chiara!!
While I still think the world was too hard on Taylor back in 2016, with the snakegate or whatever, Taylor had started to rub people the wrong way for a while at that point, with the Bad Blood music video and the girlsquad and stuff. She can't say she was blameless when her reputation took a nosedive.
Thank you! I have wanted a picture of that feud forever! You summed it up so well. Thank you. Though I believe Katy Perry did get blasted - I think the better artist rose to the top and would have regardless of Witness did better on the charts. Also - where Taylor grew up with other cool kids not wanting to hang with her - the cool Katy not being nice was probably triggering and she may have been acting some repressed anger and it made her feelings towards Katy amplify. Past middle school drama can totally screw with you head.
As someone who was born in 2005, Teenage Dream was a big thing for my childhood. I didn’t know who Taylor was until 2013 with 22, and 1989 in late elementary and early middle school redefined my childhood. In the end at 18, I listen to Taylor everyday and Katy… not as much
Edit: I love the bad blood remix… (I also love Kendrick Lamar)
Such a smart and thorough analysis- love all your work Zach, it’s informative and entertaining !
I appreciate that!
I agree with some of what you said but you really undermined just how bad Katy was too 😭 Katy is just as calculated and manipulative and one of the biggest pick me’s in the industry. If Taylor didn’t try and bury Katy, then Katy would try and bury Taylor. They’re both pretty manipulative people and Katy is not incapable of punching down. Her dating Taylor’s emotionally abusive ex is punching down, scamming the elderly for their mansions is punching down, her stealing Taylor’s back up dancers is punching down. I feel like no one ever talks abt this situation in a way that’s fair to both sides. It’s either Taylor Swift is a bully and Katie’s the victim or Katy had what was coming to her. I just saw two catty women trying to destroy each other socially. 🤷🏻♀️
Once again, you have made a wonderful video essay and I just love how you never pick one side. It's never just "Taylor's a villain" or "She's an angel" it's just "Taylor is." and clever journalism. This is why your videos are some of the most fun to watch.
I'll admit I was too young to really know or really care during this feud, but my bff was a Katy stan and so I was naturally "on her side". It's a refreshing view to see that in most feuds like this there is no winner or loser. It's also been a hard pill to swallow that truth, because it might hit a little too close to home. I am a very clear over-thinker and this sometimes leads to me coming up with the most ridiculous scenarios and I wonder if sometimes Taylor suffers the same way. It's also tough because due to this, Taylor is a very relatable person to me and I do hold her close to my heart. I don't go as far to idolise her (your videos are a godsend) but I still do love her a lot because I relate to her. So when I watch these videos, I do sometimes ruminate over whether I have done stuff like that. But now I take it as a sign to talk with someone instead of letting "tensions brew" in my head and have a HEALTHY reflection.
I do still enjoy Katy's music and now that the ageism and pitting people against each other is (relatively) starting to slow down within the industry and pop culture, I hope she can make a comeback.
I love your perspective. Always fair, funny and very informative!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I always do, Zac. You seriously make my day!@@theswiftologist
So do you agree that she’s had a revisionist history of snake gate? Because she did say to Kanye “do whatever you think is best with the line…and I just think it’s really cool you even called me about a lyric to make sure I didn’t feel bad” and “yea I might have sold millions of records but if you didn’t know who I was, that was your truth and you have to speak your truth”. And now the feud is just with Kim and she’s the one who orchestrated the whole thing but she’s not even mentioning Kanye. It’s like she can’t stand that Kim didn’t get her “Karma”.
As a Katycat and a Swiftie it's nice to see a balanced and fair view on this.
I may be in the minority but I really think Katy could make a decent comeback if she reinvents her previous sound and actually promotes like she used to while being aware of the changes in the industry such as the impact of tiktok. One of her best songs in recent years Harleys in Hawaii recently went viral for the 2nd time and created a tiktok trend so theres an audience of some form for new music there (a lot of casual fans who maybe loved her in 2010 werent even aware that it existed) She's never gonna reach her peak again but she could comeback with a decent album and good singles and have a Kylie Minogue-esque career moving forward. I do think she could do an arena tour still with the right album and going to the right places. The problem is she leaves long gaps between records and loses any engagement she has.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the relationship with John Mayer also allowed the distaste to build up.
This content is stellar
You are literally my favorite TH-cam Channel right now and it's a travesty that you don't have more subscribers. Keep up the good work and I know you'll make it
Can I just say that you are such a breath of fresh air in the Swiftie fandom? I get so annoyed that you can't give ONE remotely nuanced take on discourse related to Taylor without an army of unhinged Swifties springing to her defense and acting like you're the worst person in the world, even if you yourself are a fan 🙄
the way she single handedly ended Katys career will never not gag me
Katy also aged out of pop stardom like Taylor expected to after Lover. And Taylor was a mean girl during that time. I think she wanted to be pop queen bee and be the popular girl she wasn’t in high school. She was obsessed with looking like a VS model while trying to be a feminist. Her downfall in 2016 was partially her fault. She needed to grow up. And I think she did. I at least hope she has.
Speaking of zodiac signs and charts, Taylor actually has a lot of Scorpio in her chart. Vengefulness is always associated with Scorpio. 😂🤷♀️
Also, Katy Perry is a triple scorpio. Two scorpionic women against eachother is a recipe for disaster
Taylor’s midheaven/10th house, the house associated with careers and public perception, is in Scorpio, with her Mars in Scorpio(planet of energy/initiative) in the 10th house 😅
This is the most randomness thing, but Zack influenced me with his plants. I spent some big bucks on a Eucalyptus plant because of seeing it in the background of his videos 😅
omg MY PLANT IS FAKE
@theswiftologist WHAT!! LMFAO!! Well here I am in the Canadian climate trying to keep my very real Eucalyptus plant alive. 🤣
Twiddling my thumbs over here waiting for this
katy sending her an olive branch is actually so cute and really kind of her in hindsight😭
Loved the video! I love the humour and facts in this video 😂 “They dressed up as burger and fries, and hugged in one of the worst music videos for one of her worst songs, amazing…” Laughed so hard, and I actually like YNTCD 😂
Thanks so much for this! I've spent so long in the dark not knowing what the heck happened.
glad you got your questions answered!! :)
I'd like to mention that when the BB video came out, only Swifties were ok with it. Everyone else thought it was psychotic and a hundred parodies about how crazy Taylor was for it came out.
The whole talk about everyone in the girl squad getting along and never fighting SCREAMS toxic positivity to me. Also Taylor during this era was giving "if you ever disagree with me you're my #1 enemy" instead of having a meaningful discussion of why you felt hurt.
I genuinely believe she is a caring and warm person, but she has narcissistic threats. When she reaches a certain level of success, as we saw in several peaks she has had in her career; her ego comes to a point when she does stuff to damage her competition,
Katy Perry and Olivia Rodrigo are just a couple of examples. Still, she never does it with people she knows are equally or more talented or famous than her, such as Beyonce or Ariana Grande, and by the way the latter directly supported Scooter. Hopefully, now that she is at the super top but she is older and more mature, she celebrates competition and leaves people alone. I still love her, but it is healthy to recognize her primary flaw is her ego or the lack of
I feel like with Olivia she wasn't really mean. Olivia went around telling everyone the song is inspired by Taylor and from what I heard Olivias Team offered Taylor the credit. I think Taylor just felt like she would give an artist a credit too if she was so heavily inspired by them as Olivia claimed to be inspired by Taylor. The general public were the ones making it seem like Olivia is unoriginal or a bad writer. Also, Olivias Team clearly tried to position her as "the new Taylor Swift" which is a little shady too considering how ageist the music industry is in general. I get how Taylor would be hurt by that when she is clearly alive and releasing music. And now that that kind of marketing backfired people like to say it's Taylors fault. Yes, Olivia is a new artist but she had huge success with her debut album and isn't that much of an underdog as people like to make it seem. People can think of credits what they want but the fact is that they are very common in the music industry.
I feel like Taylor back then shot against people who she feels ldon't respect her as an artist. Beyonce always supported her and poor Ariana had so much shitty things happen to her, even Taylor wouldn't traumatize her even more😅 With the scooter braun situation there were just too many targets if she were to go against every single person who had a relationship with him.
@@XEveryoneLovesEmilyX Olivia’s team said something along the lines “People get funny when songs get really famous” implying that they HAD to give credits, probably a cease and desist letter was sent, probably not, but Taylor also benefited from that “Olivia is Taylor daughter” narrative because when Olivia came around she went super viral and Taylor had a rough time free lover was not as well received as other albums… so she was fine with all of that and then she did not when saw Olivia as real competition, I agree Olivia had a lot to learn but that does not make it okay for Taylor being literally crying for her masters and song writers rights and then allegedly doing that to Olivia, is just mean girl vibes
@@XEveryoneLovesEmilyX Ariana was very shady congratulating a post from someone saying “You just bought Taylor Swift” literally talking about Taylor as an object, I don’t know, I think is pretty convenient Taylor only goes off after people less talented or new in the industry, for me is says a lot, in my opinion
@@karylochai257 It wasn't just Taylor who got credits maybe it was one of the other artists too🤷♀️...I just think people are quick to judge when we really don't have a lot of information about the situation. I think the media just made the story bigger than what it actually was.
…and all of these reasons and more (that you have so hilariously and eloquently stated 👏🏻) are the other reasons I actually held a horrid taste in my mouth with Taylor. I definitely respected her calculation, I mean “shooting from the hip” talents, but she did have a lot to learn. Now, I find her far more appealing and down to earth, while also being a the c*nty queen she is. I think her relationship w Moe and the drama prior, mixed with the panorama really did a world of good for her. Well…hopefully. As I’m still pondering this entire “friendship” with Carpenter (who is talented but IMO not anywhere close to deserving the eras tour openers so often, as we don’t truly know who much she actually writes in her music) and Rodrigo becoming the new generation or equivalent of Swift. She’s definitely not Swift, but she is a very formidable talent. It either broke people or elevated them. Great breakdown.
Love your take on this! Really objective and interesting, I even laughed many times :D I was wondering, would you be interested in making a video about Taylor and Calvin? I feel like he's such a confusing character when trying to understand Taylor's career and life. I could use some essay about that if you'd like :)
I think she dated him for PR and kept dating him long after she didn't like him anymore because of public perception.
"She's a revisionist historian", "she stopped doing interviews because she contradicts herself literally every ten seconds".
I think a great example of this is when she was on Ellen discussing sea urchins being her greatest fear 😏.
i dont understand how u can watch a swiftologist video and not instantly subscribe
I LOVE that it seems that you know what we want to hear from you. I love this kind of videos, thank youuu