The Petra thesis: Mel with Dan Gibson (first published on Sneaker's Corner in December, 2018)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ม.ค. 2025
- In December 2018, Mel and Dan Gibson had an online conversation. Mel has since found serious flaws with Dan's methodology, particularly in relation to the supposed Ayla mosque and to the identification of a Roman altar in Petra as the "original Kaaba". However, back in December, 2018, Mel hadn't yet seen these issues.
When Murad and Mel sought a followup interview with a bunch of questions, based on new findings, Dan gave private written responses to the advance questions. Unfortunately, some of these questions caused Dan some unintended offence, so it was collectively decided not to record a second interview.
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Dan Gibson and Mel.
Two men present fascinating theories based on archeology and manuscripts.
Thank you.
Don't really know what to think of the Petra thesis. Parts of it are definitely intriguing and compelling, but I suspect we need many more data to get a clear picture. Regardless of whether the Petra thesis holds up or not, we can safely say that the SIN is a fairytale, not supported by historical evidence at all.
So is this is an old video?
Did Dan never wanted to continue discussion?
If so, that is sad.
He was uncomfortable when Murad and I posed awkward but well intentioned questions. It distressed him unfortunately. I don't think he was prepared to change a jot of his theory even if contrary evidence emerged, at least back then.
Yes, it is from 2018.
@@IslamicOriginswhat a shame. It's clear he inspired a lot of people to see how many wholes are in the narrative.
History will record that Dan triggered a lot of research into the true narrative of Islam and its only Arab prophet, even the twists and turns and dead ends.
@@IslamicOrigins @trinitymatrix9719 Jerusalem is the original location of Kaaba, Petra was an intermediate place before ending up in Mecca. Petra was the stronghold of Zubair.
Gee I remember this originally. Are you guys communicating currently. Hope so.
No, he doesn't like people questioning his theory.
You can see that I've moved on a lot from then. Back then, I was persuaded by Shoemaker's argument that Muhammad was a real historical figure, but as i went on, I started to see tons of holes in the narrative. I've also gone on from Alistair Bannister's Oral Formulaic theory.
Since about 2014, I have seriously doubted that Muhammad was a real person. He comes across a lot like King Arthur of Britain.
@@mysotiras21 100%. He's a definite equivalent.
Hi Mel, as you know i love your work, but whether he was a historical figure or not, isnt there something about the Petra thesis that still could hold up to be truth?
so what is your point until now? What is roughly theory? Muhammad was blend of several Arab and jewish leaders in one person ? Could be like two guys in the beginning , one jew other christian or manacean, or sabean converted to Christianity going together and trying to unify Arab Jewish tribes to go after persoans and Jerusalem?
@@trinitymatrix9719 Jerusalem is the original location of Kaaba, Petra was an intermediate place before ending up in Mecca. Petra was the stronghold of Zubair.
Ahhh... The good ole days. Petra or not, I would not have known the qibla situation was so spurious but not for Mr. Gibson.
Is the Petra as the original location of Kaaba theory still hold? Or is it the intermediary between Jerusalem and Mecca in hijaz
The 'In-Between' qibla (Wasid) is Madain Saleh, the Winter Capital of Dhu Shara.
They should give it another round!
Hajjaj chose Madain Saleh as the direction of prayer, because it was the 'Winter Capital of Dhu Shara'. The 'between' qibla was actually pointed at Madain Saleh.
Mel. At 4:50 you say Mohammed was a real historical figure. But in today’s video (26th January) at Speakers Corner you say at 5:00 that you doubt that he existed. Can you clarify?
This video is from 2018, it does not reflect his current understanding.
I have the same question
Thank you Mel for having a change of mind on Petra.
As I have commented before, there are many indicators pointing to Petra.
A major one for me is the Koranic letters (a few of them).
According to the Saudi scholars (University professors), such letters existed only in the Arabia Petraea region and not to the south of it.
These letters do have a special pronunciation, and this pronunciation does not exist in spoken Arabic dialects, suggesting the letters (and sounds) were not Arabic. Arabs, to this day, cannot sound out these letters correctly!
This linguistic feature alone should be sufficient to prove that Koran (or at least most of it) was written in Petra (or by people from Petra), by people rooted in a non-Arabic language (like Aramaic).
This video was from 7 years ago. I have changed my mind away from Petra, not vice versa.
@@IslamicOrigins Thank you.
@@IslamicOrigins what caused you to change your mind, is Dan's data of the early mosques pointing towards Petra not correct, or is it anything else in particular that changed your mind?
Dan lost me. The Byzantine empire was alive at that time and was the golden age, not the lifeless Islamic dirt cities. Geeez
Dan could have been referring to Baghdad rather than the Arabian Peninsula.
Abbasids, starting 750 AD, turned Baghdad into a fine capital. The court attracted people specialised in many arts, sciences and philosophy. Many were scholars from the Church of the East.
Some of these philosophical works (translated into Arabic from Greek) went to Spain, and, through Thomas Aquinas, became the foundation of Christian Theology in the 12th century, and are taught to this day to Catholic students preparing for priesthood.
Calendar changes were made after hundreds of years past
Jerusalem is the original location of Kaaba, Petra was an intermediate place before ending up in Mecca. Petra was the stronghold of Zubair.
Easy to see why he got upset in hindsight. Dan is so close. AJ Deus has done lots of work too. Imagine Dan was AJ Deus on a redemption arc?😂
Einstein didn’t like quantum theory as it didn’t quite click together with his theory of relativity.
But history is kind to both sides and possibly a third.
th-cam.com/video/Z7HhNAUoHc8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=lSGR830LIMdWAaP9
Petra has everything going for it as the holy city of Islam, whereas Mecca has nothing. Caliph Abd al Malik attacked the holy city with CATAPULTS that destroyed the Kaaba. Hundreds of catapult stones were found by archaeologists in Petra.
The old qiblas were non Islamic