Another subtlety that I really appreciate being discussed is this business of rewarding SOMETHING at the very beginning, even if as in this case it's almost the opposite of what you want -- if you're working a horse that just isn't responding at all -- and then shaping it as you go along. I've never heard anyone else recommend that, but it makes total sense. Thank you so much for this.
Thank you so much for these 3 series I’ve watched them as they came out and have re-watched them lately because I’m starting my horse under saddle right now. It makes a great difference for us. Everybody at our stables says oh he’s so relaxed and oh wow you can already have him walk on a loose rein and well, I always empty out hit rabbits and make the wrong thing hard and right thing easy… it’s actually quite shocking that so many people don’t know about the most basic stuff and always offer me help as of leading my horse to the other end of the arena as he started off quite wiggely and now they’re stunned he’s actually using the whole place within just a few days, on a loose rein. It could always be so simple if more people knew about the principles you’ve been pointing out for us and explaining them. Thank you so much for this I really appreciate it.
Just last week I went for a first lesson from a local horse trainer. She wanted me to see-saw the horse's mouth and kick during the back up. I said no and that ended the lesson. Thanks for reinforcing this concept; hands without legs and legs without hands from Boucher. I am a Western rider and thankfully I already knew not to buy into what she was asking of me. My horse thanks you also for the wonderful work you've taught me regarding relaxation. ❤️
The way you helped the shire is really helpful. I have a friesian gelding that freezes up when you try to force him to do something instead of letting him figure it out himself. Will try this when I can go back to him!
I love the subtlety of what you're doing, and of your observations of horse behavior. I just love learning *how* to begin to read them beyond the really big gestures. SO helpful!
Such great explanations on so many points. Love the " it's my impatience that helps me be patient here. I don't want to spend the next 3 yrs. getting this wrong." It goes back to everything you've taught us - don't go on to the next thing until you get what your working on 100% right. 👏👏👏 Also lived your breakdown of not using the same signal to make your horse go backwards as you do to go forward, i.e., leg squeeze, etc. Thank you for sharing these gems.
So GLAD I discovered you and your channel! Your demonstrations are so much appreciated as they’re really hard to come by. Your methods in training horses and people are really helping to change and spread kindness & understanding around the world. Must share your demonstrations. They’re precious! Have read many books and watched many interviews on horse training but there really is a lack of online demonstrations. So thank you, thank you, thank you!
Warwick's point about an uneven backup (three or four separate steps as opposed to two) being an indication of not mentally backing up is a revelation to me. My horse has some very basic clicker training and backing up is one of the clicker behaviors that he "offers" (in order to get a treat, which he doesn't always get, but worth a shot). So because he's doing it willingly, before this video I would have said that he was doing it mentally. But apparently not. Because when he backs up, he does not do it in two clean steps (backwards trot). He just kind of shuffles back. So now, based on this video, I'm going to try backing from the saddle by just picking up and waiting.
I saw a video of a big time clicker trainer have their horse back up a long way, at liberty, on the ground. The horse moved each foot individually, meaning the horse asn't really wanting to back up, it was only going backwards to get the treat, not because he was thinking backwards. It was a revelation to me to see that, because it told me you can "force" a do something with clicker training, even though the +R people would tell you different.
I don't really like clicker training. It's not natural unless you're a dolphin. What do they do... bring a clicker on a trail ride or eventing course? 🤯 I agree, you can "train" an animal to do almost anything for a treat but if they're not mentally understanding what you are asking of them, you get a mentally shutdown, mechanical response. Awesome video & explanations. Thank you.
@@mdee860 Not everyone likes CT but it isn't an all-or-nothing deal as perhaps you're thinking. It can be fun for horses and make them feel empowered because they can "suggest" things and it definitely communicates to them that you understand them. But you don't need to do it all the time to get a good ride. Many clicker trainers (myself included) probably don't do any clicker work while trail riding -- certainly not while eventing. And I don't see why you think it's natural for dolphins but not other animals. And in situations where they aren't doing clean backups, it's not necessarily a question of understanding. My horse totally understands what I'm asking (if I'm asking) and what he's doing. It's that there isn't necessarily a mental commitment. Interestingly, since this video I've been paying close attention to his feet when he backs up and sometimes it actually is a two beat move, like it's supposed to be; other times it's the "back up shuffle" I described earlier.
I was headed outside to work on a horse's backup when I saw this pop up as new content on your channel. So serendipitous that you decided to post this today. So I stopped watched the video and then tried this with the horse who has a crummy backup. I am back inside now and I can report that after an hour of doing this, he already has a much better backup. No brace and no grudging one step at a time backward like he was doing before. My end goal is to get him to backup off my seat so I am pre-queueing with my seat and then following with the rein pickup hold and release seat and reins when he goes back.
I used to be able to count on gaining points when the class got to the back up, because so many couldn't or wouldn't. A lot of riders already have more pull on the rein than needed while going forward or even standing still, so it doesn't mean reverse to the horse. Many do not think it is natural to the horse, that they won't do it when free, but they can and do.
I have a 19 year old very broke paint gelding that needed some,back to basics, from sitting around a lot in the past 2 years. Just doing this exercise also helped him get back into frame and really rock bank and move off his back end much better. He was getting very forward and rushing into upward transitions and also getting heavy in downward transitions. Not only did I do this at a halt to then back up, but I also did this at the walk and jog. I just waited for that shift in weight. More importantly it made, Me, "Wait For It". So we both learned something threw this exercise. Thanks againlove your videos
Has always been a pet peeve of mine esp in the hunt seat riders, sitting around outside the ring, waiting for a class and all with enough tension on the reins to be in hard reverse
Great video... my horse tends to shut down when he doesn't understand I've been wondering whether I should wait for the right answer, make it stronger or stop asking... you have answered my question: reward a try - even if its not what I'm looking for initially, to let the horse know he should try! Also excellent advice on backing up for developping collection. I saw you video on the school halt which I would love to teach when we have progressed to a reasonable stage and my horse is ready. Also taking your time in order to gain time is so important with horses.
Saw Leslie Desmond in youtube video lift reins straight up then lower them. When the reigns were back down the horse stepped back. No pulling. She said it helped him release shoulders so it could move back. (If I got it right) Riding Through Feel Demonstration by Leslie Desmond
My question is from my observation from the video, the rider picks up the reins then pull on the horses mouth, horse braces then raise the head, quite normal reaction from the horse, the horse is preoccupied with his mouth being pulled. Would a bosal or halter be better to transition to teach the horse to back up to by removing the pressure on the mouth and redirecting onto the nose , then once the horse feels comfortable with this you can transition back to a snaffle and connect the both techniques.
That Shire horse is braced fore and aft, looks like he really doesn't want to do anything, not forward, not back, very unresponsive, kind of shut down. I like this lesson, thanks Warwick.
Drafts are cold blooded horses, they weren't breed to be high energy or react but to be really layed back and sorta lazy. So what she was able to do on him and actually get him to gallop, trop etc in western is amazing.
Hi Warrick i like the back up lesson etc. A question i would like to ask is when we are being taught by instructors they always say leg before hand so for example coming from trot to walk or half halt . They say leg first and then reins. But you take reins first and then leg.. i know you eventually put the two together. I always put leg first. But i can see your way makes more sense. Id love if you made comment back to me. Thank you. From Avril in ireland
Hi Warwick, I enjoyed this episode, thank you. I have a question. A TB I am riding offers back up each time I ride him into a halt. He has learned back up from a very slight rein aid which is nice except that when I want him to halt square and immobile, at any point but especially in a dressage test, he is likely to straight away step back. If I leave my legs on, I of course get forward that runs into my hand and his head comes up or he steps his haunches out. It is not a huge problem and I have managed to get the halt, immobility, salute out and get going again but I want to do better by this horse and straighten out our communication. Any advice please?
" If I leave my legs on, I of course get forward that runs into my hand and his head comes up or he steps his haunches out. " I'd say this is your problem, the back up is a bit false, meaning the contact should still work when you add leg. If you add leg and the head goes in the air and your horse walks through the bit, the contact doesnt really work.
WarwickSchiller My downwards transition from trot to halt (through a few steps of walk as this is a prelim horse) is seat, close/squeeze hand leg. Once I have square halt, legs come off (this is where he might step back), I have contact with corners of his mouth and need to put reins in my left hand to salute. If I feel him move back my leg comes back on and that’s when it risks getting sloppy i.e, step forward, hind leg step sideways. So, I think you’re saying I am not getting true back up and that to do this exercise (in your video) will address this problem. I hope I have that right. Thank you.
@@WarwickSchiller I will try it without leg. I probably don't as the moment between leg and response is a millisecond. It is just the way I have always done it i.e. half halt (gear change). Thanks for the reply. Happy Easter and stay safe and sane :)
Another subtlety that I really appreciate being discussed is this business of rewarding SOMETHING at the very beginning, even if as in this case it's almost the opposite of what you want -- if you're working a horse that just isn't responding at all -- and then shaping it as you go along. I've never heard anyone else recommend that, but it makes total sense. Thank you so much for this.
Thanks.
You have to find SOMETHING to start with. The behavioral concept is called "successive approximations".
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Stepping into release instead of stepping away from pressure. Yes!
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Yes! 😁😁😁😁❤️
Thank you so much for these 3 series I’ve watched them as they came out and have re-watched them lately because I’m starting my horse under saddle right now. It makes a great difference for us. Everybody at our stables says oh he’s so relaxed and oh wow you can already have him walk on a loose rein and well, I always empty out hit rabbits and make the wrong thing hard and right thing easy… it’s actually quite shocking that so many people don’t know about the most basic stuff and always offer me help as of leading my horse to the other end of the arena as he started off quite wiggely and now they’re stunned he’s actually using the whole place within just a few days, on a loose rein. It could always be so simple if more people knew about the principles you’ve been pointing out for us and explaining them. Thank you so much for this I really appreciate it.
This is the BEST lesson about backing up I've seen for past several years!!! Love the reasons why to each part. Thanks!!!!!!!
It's definitely a lost art!😍🥺
Step forward to the bit, the bit redirects backwards...
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Just last week I went for a first lesson from a local horse trainer. She wanted me to see-saw the horse's mouth and kick during the back up. I said no and that ended the lesson.
Thanks for reinforcing this concept; hands without legs and legs without hands from Boucher. I am a Western rider and thankfully I already knew not to buy into what she was asking of me.
My horse thanks you also for the wonderful work you've taught me regarding relaxation. ❤️
Good. For. You!! (ending the lesson)
Bravo Carla Hawks for standing up for your horse and humane training! Way to promote change in the horse industry!
Neuroscience is absolutely clear that a horse can't process two commands at once.
What an enjoyable and helpful 3 seasons of horse training information! Thanks for sharing your knowledge Warwick.
On cliff, single trail, trees prevent turnaround.... Ground bees ... We ALL BACKED UP VERY VERY QUICKLY!!
The way you helped the shire is really helpful. I have a friesian gelding that freezes up when you try to force him to do something instead of letting him figure it out himself. Will try this when I can go back to him!
I love the subtlety of what you're doing, and of your observations of horse behavior. I just love learning *how* to begin to read them beyond the really big gestures. SO helpful!
Such great explanations on so many points. Love the " it's my impatience that helps me be patient here. I don't want to spend the next 3 yrs. getting this wrong." It goes back to everything you've taught us - don't go on to the next thing until you get what your working on 100% right. 👏👏👏 Also lived your breakdown of not using the same signal to make your horse go backwards as you do to go forward, i.e., leg squeeze, etc. Thank you for sharing these gems.
So GLAD I discovered you and your channel! Your demonstrations are so much appreciated as they’re really hard to come by. Your methods in training horses and people are really helping to change and spread kindness & understanding around the world. Must share your demonstrations. They’re precious! Have read many books and watched many interviews on horse training but there really is a lack of online demonstrations. So thank you, thank you, thank you!
Warwick's point about an uneven backup (three or four separate steps as opposed to two) being an indication of not mentally backing up is a revelation to me. My horse has some very basic clicker training and backing up is one of the clicker behaviors that he "offers" (in order to get a treat, which he doesn't always get, but worth a shot). So because he's doing it willingly, before this video I would have said that he was doing it mentally. But apparently not. Because when he backs up, he does not do it in two clean steps (backwards trot). He just kind of shuffles back. So now, based on this video, I'm going to try backing from the saddle by just picking up and waiting.
I saw a video of a big time clicker trainer have their horse back up a long way, at liberty, on the ground. The horse moved each foot individually, meaning the horse asn't really wanting to back up, it was only going backwards to get the treat, not because he was thinking backwards. It was a revelation to me to see that, because it told me you can "force" a do something with clicker training, even though the +R people would tell you different.
I don't really like clicker training. It's not natural unless you're a dolphin. What do they do... bring a clicker on a trail ride or eventing course? 🤯 I agree, you can "train" an animal to do almost anything for a treat but if they're not mentally understanding what you are asking of them, you get a mentally shutdown, mechanical response. Awesome video & explanations. Thank you.
@@mdee860 Not everyone likes CT but it isn't an all-or-nothing deal as perhaps you're thinking. It can be fun for horses and make them feel empowered because they can "suggest" things and it definitely communicates to them that you understand them. But you don't need to do it all the time to get a good ride. Many clicker trainers (myself included) probably don't do any clicker work while trail riding -- certainly not while eventing. And I don't see why you think it's natural for dolphins but not other animals. And in situations where they aren't doing clean backups, it's not necessarily a question of understanding. My horse totally understands what I'm asking (if I'm asking) and what he's doing. It's that there isn't necessarily a mental commitment. Interestingly, since this video I've been paying close attention to his feet when he backs up and sometimes it actually is a two beat move, like it's supposed to be; other times it's the "back up shuffle" I described earlier.
I was headed outside to work on a horse's backup when I saw this pop up as new content on your channel. So serendipitous that you decided to post this today. So I stopped watched the video and then tried this with the horse who has a crummy backup. I am back inside now and I can report that after an hour of doing this, he already has a much better backup. No brace and no grudging one step at a time backward like he was doing before. My end goal is to get him to backup off my seat so I am pre-queueing with my seat and then following with the rein pickup hold and release seat and reins when he goes back.
Great work.
Excellent!!! I picked up on so much of the tiny things to work on
This was awesome, even the slightest response you give a release.
I used to be able to count on gaining points when the class got to the back up, because so many couldn't or wouldn't. A lot of riders already have more pull on the rein than needed while going forward or even standing still, so it doesn't mean reverse to the horse. Many do not think it is natural to the horse, that they won't do it when free, but they can and do.
Thank you so much! That was a beautiful example of a really good back up.
Again the intro.. that cool and true that it’s almost forbidden
I have a 19 year old very broke paint gelding that needed some,back to basics, from sitting around a lot in the past 2 years. Just doing this exercise also helped him get back into frame and really rock bank and move off his back end much better. He was getting very forward and rushing into upward transitions and also getting heavy in downward transitions. Not only did I do this at a halt to then back up, but I also did this at the walk and jog. I just waited for that shift in weight. More importantly it made, Me, "Wait For It". So we both learned something threw this exercise. Thanks againlove your videos
Has always been a pet peeve of mine esp in the hunt seat riders, sitting around outside the ring, waiting for a class and all with enough tension on the reins to be in hard reverse
Man I would love to have a big draft 😍 I love how you explain collection.
This is brilliant
Loads to think about in this series, thank you so much for putting it up.
thank you so much for that explanation❤
I’ve become obsessed with your channel
HAPPY EASTER TO ALL! Another great video, Warwick is truly my fav. trainer online !!!! Thank you.
Great video... my horse tends to shut down when he doesn't understand I've been wondering whether I should wait for the right answer, make it stronger or stop asking... you have answered my question: reward a try - even if its not what I'm looking for initially, to let the horse know he should try! Also excellent advice on backing up for developping collection. I saw you video on the school halt which I would love to teach when we have progressed to a reasonable stage and my horse is ready.
Also taking your time in order to gain time is so important with horses.
That Shire is probably between 1800 and 2000 lbs. My 17 3 warmblood weighs 1600. 😜
irene coermann ~ my QH is 1200 lbs and my Cream Draft is around 1800 lbs at 16.3hh. I'd guess that 18hh Shire is 2000-2200lbs
Yes! I can't believe he said 1200lbs! I would have thought he would know better! My 17.2 WB is 1450lbs
Yes, when I’m doing working equitation I need my horse to back up nicely.
I love that beautiful horse.
Saw Leslie Desmond in youtube video lift reins straight up then lower them. When the reigns were back down the horse stepped back. No pulling. She said it helped him release shoulders so it could move back. (If I got it right)
Riding Through Feel Demonstration by Leslie Desmond
Thanks for sharing this valuable knowledge
just luvving this
Amazing!
That shire is a mood
excellent video!
Awesome!
Very wise man 👨
The added bonus is that horse learns how to learn.
My question is from my observation from the video, the rider picks up the reins then pull on the horses mouth, horse braces then raise the head, quite normal reaction from the horse, the horse is preoccupied with his mouth being pulled. Would a bosal or halter be better to transition to teach the horse to back up to by removing the pressure on the mouth and redirecting onto the nose , then once the horse feels comfortable with this you can transition back to a snaffle and connect the both techniques.
Brilliant 👏 👏 👏
Loved it!
That Shire horse is braced fore and aft, looks like he really doesn't want to do anything, not forward, not back, very unresponsive, kind of shut down. I like this lesson, thanks Warwick.
Drafts are cold blooded horses, they weren't breed to be high energy or react but to be really layed back and sorta lazy. So what she was able to do on him and actually get him to gallop, trop etc in western is amazing.
a friend of mine has a draft horse that's of similar size... he weighs around 1600 pounds, so I think you made him lighter than he is :- )
Step into the release - I’ll remember that
That shire male is stunning 😍😍😍
Hi Warrick i like the back up lesson etc. A question i would like to ask is when we are being taught by instructors they always say leg before hand so for example coming from trot to walk or half halt . They say leg first and then reins. But you take reins first and then leg.. i know you eventually put the two together. I always put leg first. But i can see your way makes more sense. Id love if you made comment back to me. Thank you. From Avril in ireland
Hi Warwick, I enjoyed this episode, thank you. I have a question. A TB I am riding offers back up each time I ride him into a halt. He has learned back up from a very slight rein aid which is nice except that when I want him to halt square and immobile, at any point but especially in a dressage test, he is likely to straight away step back. If I leave my legs on, I of course get forward that runs into my hand and his head comes up or he steps his haunches out. It is not a huge problem and I have managed to get the halt, immobility, salute out and get going again but I want to do better by this horse and straighten out our communication. Any advice please?
" If I leave my legs on, I of course get forward that runs into my hand and his head comes up or he steps his haunches out. "
I'd say this is your problem, the back up is a bit false, meaning the contact should still work when you add leg. If you add leg and the head goes in the air and your horse walks through the bit, the contact doesnt really work.
WarwickSchiller My downwards transition from trot to halt (through a few steps of walk as this is a prelim horse) is seat, close/squeeze hand leg. Once I have square halt, legs come off (this is where he might step back), I have contact with corners of his mouth and need to put reins in my left hand to salute. If I feel him move back my leg comes back on and that’s when it risks getting sloppy i.e, step forward, hind leg step sideways. So, I think you’re saying I am not getting true back up and that to do this exercise (in your video) will address this problem. I hope I have that right. Thank you.
@@DizeeGiz Id say if you have to close you leg to have a good downward transition, then thats your problem.
@@WarwickSchiller I will try it without leg. I probably don't as the moment between leg and response is a millisecond. It is just the way I have always done it i.e. half halt (gear change). Thanks for the reply. Happy Easter and stay safe and sane :)
Neuroscience is clear that horses can't hear two aids at once so as you say the French view of "hand without leg, leg without hand" is correct.
So, no leg pressure at all?
Shires are anywhere from 1700 - 2000lbs. Ask me how I know. Lol.
Ummm, that big horse, try more like 1800lbs
😊❤️
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