I think a lot of people enjoy the leveling journey through a massive open world and most of current mmos focuses mainly on endgame grind, and makes leveling trivial.
Everything is in Azeroth. The leveling experience doesn't take you through portals and more portals to different worlds and bs. They don't call retail "Portals of Warcraft" for nothing. Just doesn't feel like a world over there anymore
yes. I always loved leveling. It's frustrating sometimes, but still it's so cozy and fun. Meeting people, chilling listening to some music killing some mobs, doing some late night dungeons
Which version has the better leveling experience? I like the idea of wrath since it has Blood elf and updated classes. But don’t wanna feel like I’m lonely/surrounded by bots while leveling it’ll just make things empty/boring.
The end game in vanilla wasnt my thing but i loved the journey to 60. Levling, questing, dungeons, exploring, interacting with other people and the music. No mmo will ever top vanilla wow, i still get chills when i remember the good old days of wow, i had the time of my life and i miss and think about those days often.
I love Classic Era because I'm lucky enough to have a few hours each day that I can spend just leveling and helping other people. The slow pace is such a chill experience.
Yeah, i don't feel like i am on a hamster wheel. I think that timers are really an issue on retail. Would it be really that bad, if m+ had no timer :D ? No depleting of keys, you either kill it or not.
I jumped into classic a couple weeks ago. My opinion... its less difficult game mechanics, fewer systems, easy to play yet still provides a serious progression challenge.
I already experienced Vanilla, and Classic had too many I met that min/max'ed the fun out of leveling and overdid stuff like raid buffs. I'd love to give it another go if they balanced the specs, though. Most of all I just really want MoP Classic.
@@SlaughtingIdiots man try the server im in, has instant max level and they give u free tyranic gear, is very nice to get started quick and skip the bullshit, they also give free gems and enchants and professions can be raised 0-600 in 1minute, is pretty nice (pandawow, look it up)
@@Rhodair yea MoP best expansion for pvp by far, idk why people dont play that expansion more, i guess they just didnt move from 3.3.5?? retail should for sure give more attention to Pandaria, the pvp was great
Vanilla is just different, I think like many others said, the fact that its so simple and easy makes it easy to just start playing. You don't feel like you have to learn 20 different systems to even start progressing, the first progression is the leveling, it's very comforting honestly I LOVE the vanilla leveling for some weird reason, it feels good grinding with many other people
@@antohnyt2067 not what I asked though. I feel like wotlk isn't that different from vanilla in regards to how you start progressing your character, the only added "system" is glyphs and that's it.
@@1337139 You people cant decide honestly, when it came out the first time everyone said vanilla is so good and difficult, you have to be hardcore. Then when it turned out its easy, everyone said, well the game is fun because the lvling is a journey and takes a long time. Now, when it came out that you can easily become lvl 60 in 2-3 days everyone says, well we enjoy WoW classic because its so chill and easy
It’s the simple things in Classic for me…for example: you’re lvl 12 leveling in westfall and see a chest that is guarded by 5 different mobs. You know you just can’t run straight into it because you will get killed. So you try to figure out a strategy of which of the mobs you will attack first in order to defeat them all to then be rewarded by the loot in the chest. Then each of the zones has its own small storylines to tell. Some of them better, some of them worse. But in the end it just feels organic and with enough players online it is just fun to slowly grind your way to level 60.
Hardcore actually naturally forces an aura of what it was like in 2004: everyone exping in the wilds, everyone out questing, every item matters, people take it seriously, a community has been built
Simple answer is Classic is the only real MMO. No other game compares to how it feels to be out in the world in vanilla classic. Theres a sense of danger, the world is alive. To get somewhere you have to run through environment and you run into people on the way where random things can happen. Compare that to dragonflight where you can just zoom on a flying mount to wherever you want to go, you don't talk to anyone and there is no sense of danger at all, just feels so dull.
Biggest reason is the VoiceOver Addon!!! It’s absolutely fantastic. I didn’t even come close to imagine how much of a quality of life improvement this Addon is for questing. It’s like listening to an audiobook while killing mobs. Maybe they’ll even ad voice acting for every book in the game as well. Imagine listening to Green Hills Of Stranglethorn while ganking scrubs in STV…🤩
I wouldn’t mind if they added extra content to Classic while also keeping the core aspects of the game. Like add that Scarlet raid rumor that I heard about a long time ago, or add player housing and etc.
Unlikely. The only knob blacxard knows how to turn is to speed up leveling because they are completely out of touch with why people play vanilla. See SOM as exhibit A.
Personally I liked the garrison back in WoD but they really missed the target with that and the expansion as a whole. Stinks because it could have been a great Xpac.
Classic's lower difficulty was a HUGE part of it's success. Also, most players weren't excited about the difficulty in vanilla. At launch, so many players were just excited about the world, the lore, and exploration. I fondly remember my old guild on Arygos. Started it shortly after launch, and kept it going until MoP. Personally, I feel like Blizz would have a guaranteed winner if they'd release a reworked classic with hardcore realms, transmogs, and would treat the world as an "alternate timeline" of sorts. Complete and open up currently blocked areas, introduce new content without having to severely alter what already exists.
Im wondering if adding a ‘hardcore’ option in a regular server would work to avoid further splitting the playerbase, seeing as how hc is pretty topical.
I recently got into Classic Wrath, and I chose Wrath as I have a few friends playing there and I've always wanted to at least get an attempt at doing Ulduar and ICC when it was current content. Anyways, one thing I notices is just how relaxing it is, there's no stress to get to max level. That's the polar opposite of what Retail feels to be doing, which is to tell you "hey, get to 70 as fast as you can and start doing m+ and raids", it sort of feels like Retail discourages questing because the mobs and quests are so easy. When leveling in Wrath I'd legit just die if I pulled more than 2 mobs, and 2 mobs was hard enough as it was. Such an experience makes the world feel full because you realise that you can't just run around killing anything you want, you're a piece of the world and you have to respect that. For similar reasons, I believe people keep playing Classic. Albeit why they choose Classic Era I can't answer, but it could be related to them enjoying a similar experience as well as them simply liking Classic for what it is. Classic becomes so much more fun when you take the time and accept that the goal of the game isn't getting geared, it's the journey to getting geared.
It's not that retail or classic is better. It's just that people want something different at times. If u spent so much time in one game, it's just nice to switch it up sometimes. I enjoy both games and really love the opportunity to play both games if I want to. And if that do a lot of people at the same time, so the world is populated it's even better
Exactly! Finally someone said it, instead of just "X iS bEtTer tHaN Y". I personally like Classic more, simply because I like the journey. But I often switch to retail, because I want a change after a burnout.
I played vanilla back in the day and keep coming back to classic. Just started a new classic era char and I've seen more other players in the starting zone than I did while leveling 60-70 in Dragonflight. Classic is easy, true, but also perfect when you just want to login and casually level and do some dungeons. Also the feeling of progression is way better while leveling in classic. You actually get happy for some SM blue drop, or the l40 mount.. in DF i couldnt even notice the character get more powerful due to the level scaling and the gear while leveling meant nothing. True Classic Andy.
I don't understand the classic hate. Vanilla leveling is so satisfying and enjoyable to me. Finding greens and blues is actually exciting and a big deal, whether its for gold or character power, if I find a green on wrath I don't even blink, just vendor it, it's worthless. Find a green on retail I don't even loot it, waste of bag space. Forming and running dungeons for blue weps and big upgrades vs just wearing BOA's or buying a character boost. So many things, it's like an actual MMORPG vs raid logging simulator.
Playing Classic Era now with people leveling for the fun of it feels a lot more like some of the golden days of private servers where it was a lot of people there purely for the joy of the game. I've been bumping into a lot more social people just enjoying themselves adventuring than people rushing to 60 to clear content as fast as possible.
@@gollese For me I only said private servers because I actually had more fun on Nostalrius and Light's Hope than I did during actual retail vanilla. Better understanding of the game, and better friends lead to a lot of memorable times for me.
The one single thing I do NOT like about vanilla is how some specs are basically useless. In tbc and wrath, ret pally was easily one of the funnest classes I’ve ever played in an mmo. Just a shame some specs are a waste of time in vanilla
I played classic wrath when it came out and droped after my sub ended around lvl 40 or smth, I’ve been thinking of coming back, maybe I’ll just play vanilla classic
Its so nice to be able to hop back on turtle. The main reason being is F2P. So a bunch of new content + F2P + GMs who actually do ban goldsellers + a kickass community.
I never did get around to playing WoW; I actually wouldn't mind playing Vanilla. I had wanted Blizzard to make a vanilla Overwatch with the original cast of characters, but now with OW2 they're just gonna add more and more characters...and people are still going to cry that there aren't enough playable characters.
I starter playing WoW for The first time 2 years ago. I played through Shadowlands not knowing what I was doing just leveling but was overwhelmed by the amount of stuff that was in the game and thought it was stupid that the map was so big but the only area you play in is Shadowlands (after leveling through bfa in 2 hours) so I stopped and went to Wotlk classic a little late into its launch but immediately quite when I found out the most basic and classic version of the game was starting to be popular. The simplicity of it attracted me and the amount of social interaction is incomparable to the other versions of the game
I loved Classic Era launch, all the action based in Azeroth is just such a nice thing, the zones are just incredible, the leveling is the best, the classes feel great, and the game isn't oversaturated with content. I hope they decide to do Classic + and change it up, brand new old timey zones, new mobs and bosses, would be awesome.
Hey Asmon, and the readers of this comment... Its time to face reality - ppl arent going from WOTLK to Classic cuz "WOTLK is hard" Its bcuz WOTLK is just boring... Im not saying Classic is this super hardcore always having fun experience, but its just has a flavour to it which doesnt exist for anything above TBC... Even I personally, only continue playing WOTLK cuz of my guild (yes we cleared all HMs ez pz its a fking 12 year old game, dont kid yourself talking about HARD) But as soon as my guild stops raiding or I get GKicked or w/e, im insta out of this shitshow and back to classic... it just hits different, idk what it is, but Ive enjoyed Vanilla, Classic, SOM more than any other expansions... PS about Classic being "hard" its not hard to do MC or BWL or AQ40... Naxx is tho, but thats a different story... The difficulty in Classic comes from time... you can do MC in 4 hours or 1 hour.... if you want to play an MMO to have a HARD BOSS PROGRESSION - you dont play classic... you dont play TBC... you dont play fking WOTLK... you go play retail and get fucked by Mythic raids :)
I'm an old school WoW player who actually quit WoW sometime in the middle of the Burning Crusade (I could see it was getting a bit lame). However I was in a sick guild and one of the best hunters on my server - Some of the best gaming times of my life were playing with my PvP team, capture the flag and having CC wars with druids. I am tempted to come back and give it a try again just for the nostalgia. Thanks for the vid!
Just started a warrior on bloodstail yesterday there were enough low levels playing that people were standing in line waiting on spawns for hogger and it took me forever to get enough gnoll bracers to finish the quest
Just started wow for the first time ever and i enjoy playing vanilla classic so far its very immersing for such an old game i really feel like im going to get lost exploring this giant world
Different kind of difficulty. Less sitting with sims and grinding m+ forever to get optimal gear so you can do high end content. And more a personal challenge of not pulling to much, planning take downs, using cc and so on.
Nah. Hardcore is only a fraction of the people playing classic right now. There is literally only one HC server on NA and there are like 15 non HC servers that have a medium population.
I love that people know and are familiar again with old classic gear and tier sets. Getting hyped seeing someone in classic naxx faith set or seeing a hand of rag.
As much as im glad that classic is still out there for people to enjoy, it has aged in some way, or maybe some players (me included) have aged out of it. i think it would be better if they used classic+ as a foundation or a template for an ACTUAL wow 2. where it would feel like a classic wow (slow paced combat, chance that your attacks will miss, weapon skills, world PVP, etc) but with QoL changes and in a way make it be like Guild wars 2 where everything you get at max level will never become obsolete in another expansion while maintaining classic's gameplay. hell it would even allow for a potentially beefed up world PVP where alliance and horde are a thing of the past and instead the two factions are completely independant of the main racial factions (orc clans, Theramore and Stormwind humans, high elves and blood elves, etc but fight over control of the continents in what would be a combination of Guild wars 2's world vs world and TBC zones where you had towers you could capture for a world buff.
This age Asmon mentioned, lol I'm now 50 years old & still play, currently level 22 in hardcore. I play Classic to chill & rum M+s in Retail when I'm more awake.
I started playing late November 2022 and i'm enjoying the game even though I'm still at FREE TRIAL up to now. Planning to buy the 6-month subscription for my 31st birthday this month so I can progress more and try WoW Classic. I remember watching my cousin play this game back in 2004 when it was released but can't play with him because I can't afford the monthly subscription of the game.
After casually just exploring through BFA and DF zones, idk how can blizzard not put a focus or emphasis on leveling, the zones are so immersive and beautiful and interactive. How can they put so much aesthetic and immsersive detail and make them trivial just for the sake of rushing people through endgame. Another big issue is that you play through an expansion and if you follow the story you are a big loser because once you hit 60, just forget what story you were following, you are thrown into a completely new story with no context.
Im new in WoW since Classic came out. I tried classic, tbc, wotlk and retail. Classic is the best but it need some little class/race balance and arena for pvp. HC is also really nice.
But it is a pointless time dump, because at the end of the day there is no future, it will not receive more content , trends die out quickly and eventually thousands of hours invested for no reason.
They shouldn't rerelease anything. Instead they should always have at least 1 realm that is unchanging. People played on Nostalrius and other private servers far longer than they played on official classic realms. BECAUSE they were unchanging. I 100% guarantee that if you have 1 classic realm it will always be full.
I never played classic originally, or even this last time around but am dabbling in it right now. There is something about it that is enjoyable. I happen to like that game through Cata. Like, we've cleared Ulduar and I enjoy farming it but I like swapping from wotlk to classic depending on what is or isn't going on. Also, all hard-modes are cleared. Really the only one that's really hard is Mimiron. There's something I like about the first 3 expansions the most.
classic twinks were a huge reason the game felt so good in the 1-29 lvl range since so many people would go level up and grind the gear, this even helped the economy on top of that people would stop leveling on purpose for a while to experience the PVP at 19/29/39 etc... this is just 1 of many reasons why classic leveling feels so much better than any other MMO so I am of the opinion they just need to add new battle grounds, and 1 dungeon for lvls 15-25-35-etc... maybe 1 world pvp event/area as well
Already did all end game content on wrath and retail and tbh I'm done with end game stuff. The constant grind repeating the same exact things every week just doesn't appeal to me anymore. I am LOVING hardcore(although I'm on TurtleWow) because it feels like a fun new journey with every new character it try after dying.
Vanilla as a game itself was great. Sure a few things here and there to tweak but overall the only issue I had with it was class balance. Not even talking about homogenizing everything either. Itemization, scaling, and overall balance in general... for example: Warriors being the only useful tank. Priests being the only useful healer. Weapon damage scaling for melee, especially Ferals who have a best in slot from a level 20 dungeon. Pressing 1 button for most of the game. Some classs being nigh useless in their own right. ... class balance is the only reason I regard TBC+ as better. Because your class is the lens with which you view the game through. Like one spec of each class could be considered useful, and only three classes were in a half-decent spot.
I really enjoyed classic WoW - but fuck going back to that. I kind of get it though, chilling in a guild group running scholo to complete something for someone, you've done it so many times and you need nothing but you just shoot the breeze while stomping mobs that used to give you trouble and you're helping a guildy - there's a warm feeling in that.
FFXI classic era+ servers include a hardcore mode and its true to the classicness of FFXI. It also does this really well where the game doesnt begin at 75 (level cap). You are literally against a hard harsh world much like classic where you need others to help. It builds such a great community I hardly find one toxic person...
I think saying classic is easy you don't send your message clear enough. Classic questing is not that easy and I think that makes it good. Retail questing is easy and makes it bad. I think you refer to the end game, and I agree with you there. But I believe majority of the people who want to have fun is leveling. Enjoy the journey and not the destination. Moreover because the destination is full of sweaty try hards with no life.
I know Wraith is easy to blame for the influx, but it could be that Dragonflight is hitting a dry-spell as well. Wraith still seems popular to me and I don't think DF is as good as people make it out to be.
I feel like WoW should have leagues like in PoE or Diablo. They'll have HC leagues that restart every so often. They should do huge updates to the classes as well.
I saw a Facebook post on the classic group I'm in and it was saying classic is booming again. I decided to roll a warrior and tank this go around. I didn't clone my priest and should have but I honestly didn't know at the time you could. I haven't played Modern WOW and left after Wrath. Moved on with life but classic has such good memories!! Classic has me right back in!
I would like to see them reimagine the Death Knight as a vanilla style class, as well as the Monk. They could also add more world bosses and maybe hard modes for some of the lower level dungeons with better loot.
It's a more chill experience for me personally. I also much prefer Azeroth to any of the xpac zones. The whole zone feels relevant and more immersive I think.
You have no idea how great it feels to see returning and brand new players jumping around all the zones I’ve welcomed so many new players and met so many old ones some of the leveling guilds have had to split off more then once it’s crazy edit: even horde on whitemane which is alliance dominated slightly is popping off
Hydraxion waterlords on EU also packed AF. Ive never seen so many people in the open world since i started WoW actually. Its quite hard to tag anything as mage for quests. Named quests are literally impossible, way too much lines and people just ignoring it. Still quite fun tbh.
20:58 what a stud ! i loved ganking in stormwind. never got out alive but took some with me. my goal was to spread the feeling that stormwind wasnt save.
I wish I had cloned my 60 hunter when I had the chance but I believe many people believed the same thing, that Era servers were dead, and that WOTLK was the be all save all of WoW classic. I can't bring myself to restart from level 1 on era because as a casual player I prefer the leveling process in WOTLK much more. This is for a few big reasons. 1. No mount until level 40 in Era. Makes sense to have the epic mount require level 60 but not getting your mount for so long really turns the first 40 levels into a complete slog unless you're playing a class with some movement speed buff, hunter, shaman, druid pretty much. 2. Class limitations are a general turn off. I remember when SOM was about to launch I was SO hyped to play prot paladin, and tank raids etc. Only to find out after a bit of research that if I wanted to do that, I'd better get use to GBoK spamming. I don't think addressing these two simple issues would take much away from the feel of classic overall, and would make for a much more enjoyable new player experience.
Vanilla is just great! I mean easy or hard doesn't matter. I think people just missed that magic that community for starters. Then there's leveling it's not trivial in vanilla and I actually enjoyed leveling back in vanilla.
Ya. It’s not a big surprise that people love classic. If you look back at the oldest version of “classic” (nostalrius) it makes a lot of sense why people come back to Vanilla versions of the game. I like to think of it as you can change the formula to something as much as you want, but some people will just prefer the original formula
Best thing about classic is the slow pace, retail feels like you're on a rat wheel. You gring for mythic gear and mythic+ vault loot bis only for all the work to mean absolutely nothing when the next season starts. Classic you can actually enjoy the story and explore not bc of a zone explore achieve but because you really want to see what's hidden in places
There's just something magical about vanilla that no other expansion ever came close to reproducing. Very wholesome to see new players discovering WoW in its best state.
Classic is just more fun imo. I played dragonflight and wotlk for a while and ended up getting bored when getting to end game and arena. Not sure if its an age thing or I just suck but arenas/raiding is too sweaty for me and I would just be pissed off all the time lol. I've enjoyed classic because I can just chill and enjoy the leveling experience with friends.
I've been doing the hardcore challenge with both an alliance and a horde character. These are the only reason I've been subscribed for the past few months. A lot of fun and very active on Bloodsail Buccaneers.
Classic was wanted and gotten on private servers a long time ago. There's a history of desire for classic that runs nearly as long as the games existence.
Asmon is right, the best part of wow classic you can "beat" it. That must be such a great feeling to get BiS in all slots and know that new content isnt coming, must feel like a god
I’ve had more fun on hardcore than Wrath and Retail. Wrath is just raid logging. Raid isn’t as hard as Asmon makes it. Retail is alright. Loved the m+, raid was enjoyable. It’s just the “hey it’s near the end of the season, take a break and get re-energized for S2” thing. Hardcore is a leveling journey. You’re not spamming DGs to 60, being bored out of your mind. You’re out in Desolace, or Arathi, or Westfall. Grinding XP and having fun. The fear of death always there. Just my opinion, obviously.
New player here, retail is super overwhelming and pushes you to max level super fast, Ive been wanting to go to classic but im not sure which server to play on, i like playing with hellah people, any suggestions?
@@codye2965 bloodsail buccaneers for hardcore NA I believe (for ally at least) Whitemane cluster for horde / ally regular PvP server, and Mankrik for ally PvE. All 3 of them are popping off lately.
A server that starts at 1.12, when the last raid gets cleared the whole server is hard reset and everyone gets 25% increased xp buff and all end game bosses get buffed by 5%. Stack both buffs for every reset. just to see how hard end game has to be before its impossible.
If there is one thing I want for a new classic season of mastery that I dont think ever would be added it would be the ablility to do all the end game raids in 10 man. I have 10 good friends even some that have never played WoW that would join up to level and play to 60 if we could do the raids with just our group. Like I said though, I doubt they make that change.
I played vanilla the first time 'round - stopped when Cata released...the atmosphere and community during the first few years of the game were amazing but declined with each expansion...until it was a toxic mess. I'm very tempted to try classic as Disc Priest and Frost Mage are my two favourite classes of any MMO ever...the healing and CC gameplay are superb...though I can't quite remember what state they were in during the classic period. Hmmmmm.
I just ran out of cares to give for end game content on wotlk and I started leveling alts, then I realised if I'm just in it for the leveling then I will just play vanilla because the experience is more fulfilling
It's funny for me.. My brother raids 2-3 nights a week on Wrath Classic. He's reliving his best memories of his WotLK experience. He's competitive and likes to be the best at whatevers he is playing. He has most classes at level 80 by now. But myself, I just like levelling and questing. Most of my character are in the 20-70 range. The end game grind has never been my thing, but for my brother it's the exact opposite. And I think WoW is all the better for it. It can house both nostalgic casuals, and hardcore nostalgics. Or Hardcore new mmo-ers, and players who are new to mmo's but want to casually enjoy the experience at their own pace.
Hardcore has made me enjoy wow so much more in the past few weeks. I'm actually paying attention to the game. Not just raid logging and trying to get them parses.
I think a lot of people enjoy the leveling journey through a massive open world and most of current mmos focuses mainly on endgame grind, and makes leveling trivial.
Everything is in Azeroth. The leveling experience doesn't take you through portals and more portals to different worlds and bs. They don't call retail "Portals of Warcraft" for nothing. Just doesn't feel like a world over there anymore
It’s the journey that I crave.
Yep getting gear from mara/SM is way more fun to me than end game gearing.
@@Jadeazu i like to call it "Currect Expansion Island of Warcraft" lol
yes. I always loved leveling. It's frustrating sometimes, but still it's so cozy and fun. Meeting people, chilling listening to some music killing some mobs, doing some late night dungeons
I really appreciate you taking the time to watch my videos Asmon, seeing you laugh makes my day, thank you
Literally playing again because of your video. I couldn't believe the resurgence!
hi
Some of the best content on youtube. I dont play anymore but I still watch.
Which version has the better leveling experience? I like the idea of wrath since it has Blood elf and updated classes. But don’t wanna feel like I’m lonely/surrounded by bots while leveling it’ll just make things empty/boring.
Azamous youre the best
The end game in vanilla wasnt my thing but i loved the journey to 60. Levling, questing, dungeons, exploring, interacting with other people and the music. No mmo will ever top vanilla wow, i still get chills when i remember the good old days of wow, i had the time of my life and i miss and think about those days often.
I love Classic Era because I'm lucky enough to have a few hours each day that I can spend just leveling and helping other people. The slow pace is such a chill experience.
Yeah, i don't feel like i am on a hamster wheel. I think that timers are really an issue on retail. Would it be really that bad, if m+ had no timer :D ? No depleting of keys, you either kill it or not.
Blizzard needs to remake classic wow just that
I jumped into classic a couple weeks ago. My opinion... its less difficult game mechanics, fewer systems, easy to play yet still provides a serious progression challenge.
try pandaria expansion, the pvp is amazing
Absolutely 💯.
I already experienced Vanilla, and Classic had too many I met that min/max'ed the fun out of leveling and overdid stuff like raid buffs. I'd love to give it another go if they balanced the specs, though. Most of all I just really want MoP Classic.
@@SlaughtingIdiots man try the server im in, has instant max level and they give u free tyranic gear, is very nice to get started quick and skip the bullshit, they also give free gems and enchants and professions can be raised 0-600 in 1minute, is pretty nice (pandawow, look it up)
@@Rhodair yea MoP best expansion for pvp by far, idk why people dont play that expansion more, i guess they just didnt move from 3.3.5?? retail should for sure give more attention to Pandaria, the pvp was great
Vanilla is just different, I think like many others said, the fact that its so simple and easy makes it easy to just start playing.
You don't feel like you have to learn 20 different systems to even start progressing, the first progression is the leveling, it's very comforting honestly I LOVE the vanilla leveling for some weird reason, it feels good grinding with many other people
What systems do you have to learn in Wotlk classic as a comparison then?
@@wowandrss its a race to get to the wotlk content. In classic era there is no rush lvling is the game
@@antohnyt2067 not what I asked though. I feel like wotlk isn't that different from vanilla in regards to how you start progressing your character, the only added "system" is glyphs and that's it.
Vanillia being easy isnt a bad thing. I loved it because it was raid night just hanging out with the boys getting loot.
@@1337139 You people cant decide honestly, when it came out the first time everyone said vanilla is so good and difficult, you have to be hardcore.
Then when it turned out its easy, everyone said, well the game is fun because the lvling is a journey and takes a long time. Now, when it came out that you can easily become lvl 60 in 2-3 days everyone says, well we enjoy WoW classic because its so chill and easy
@@Neurogenesis1251 true
@@Neurogenesis1251 wow players and ppl in general nowdays just can not be sathisfied they just jump on a bandwagons....
@@1337139 Nah, raids are meant to be a progression thing.. Not a 1 shot farm right away thing, you hit boredom so much faster.. And thats a fact.
It’s the simple things in Classic for me…for example: you’re lvl 12 leveling in westfall and see a chest that is guarded by 5 different mobs. You know you just can’t run straight into it because you will get killed. So you try to figure out a strategy of which of the mobs you will attack first in order to defeat them all to then be rewarded by the loot in the chest.
Then each of the zones has its own small storylines to tell. Some of them better, some of them worse. But in the end it just feels organic and with enough players online it is just fun to slowly grind your way to level 60.
Hardcore actually naturally forces an aura of what it was like in 2004: everyone exping in the wilds, everyone out questing, every item matters, people take it seriously, a community has been built
Okay fk it I shut down laptop installing but time to install
@@knwgt5426 i haven't even played hardcore yet, just watch videos and will play install soon
Simple answer is Classic is the only real MMO. No other game compares to how it feels to be out in the world in vanilla classic. Theres a sense of danger, the world is alive. To get somewhere you have to run through environment and you run into people on the way where random things can happen. Compare that to dragonflight where you can just zoom on a flying mount to wherever you want to go, you don't talk to anyone and there is no sense of danger at all, just feels so dull.
Biggest reason is the VoiceOver Addon!!! It’s absolutely fantastic. I didn’t even come close to imagine how much of a quality of life improvement this Addon is for questing. It’s like listening to an audiobook while killing mobs. Maybe they’ll even ad voice acting for every book in the game as well. Imagine listening to Green Hills Of Stranglethorn while ganking scrubs in STV…🤩
Bro you made me want to install the game again now
TurtleWoW has already done all of this. It’s classic + and has a built in hardcore mode permanent death.
I wouldn’t mind if they added extra content to Classic while also keeping the core aspects of the game. Like add that Scarlet raid rumor that I heard about a long time ago, or add player housing and etc.
(Like add in cut content that never made it to original release and expand upon that would be a good start imo)
Unlikely. The only knob blacxard knows how to turn is to speed up leveling because they are completely out of touch with why people play vanilla. See SOM as exhibit A.
Aaron Ingram player housing... garrison.......
Personally I liked the garrison back in WoD but they really missed the target with that and the expansion as a whole. Stinks because it could have been a great Xpac.
you mean Turtle WoW ? I hope they do some shit like Turtle WoW... its awesome
Classic's lower difficulty was a HUGE part of it's success. Also, most players weren't excited about the difficulty in vanilla. At launch, so many players were just excited about the world, the lore, and exploration. I fondly remember my old guild on Arygos. Started it shortly after launch, and kept it going until MoP.
Personally, I feel like Blizz would have a guaranteed winner if they'd release a reworked classic with hardcore realms, transmogs, and would treat the world as an "alternate timeline" of sorts. Complete and open up currently blocked areas, introduce new content without having to severely alter what already exists.
transmogs big NO.
Disagree on transmog. "Seeing" what a player is doing is part of the experience. When everyone looks bad ass, no one looks bad ass.
Except that most people rushed to 60, many of which spent at least half their leveling experience spamming dungeons
Im wondering if adding a ‘hardcore’ option in a regular server would work to avoid further splitting the playerbase, seeing as how hc is pretty topical.
the guys tone of voice sounds so sarcastic in the video asmon is watchin
it’s hard to listen to honestly lol
I recently got into Classic Wrath, and I chose Wrath as I have a few friends playing there and I've always wanted to at least get an attempt at doing Ulduar and ICC when it was current content. Anyways, one thing I notices is just how relaxing it is, there's no stress to get to max level. That's the polar opposite of what Retail feels to be doing, which is to tell you "hey, get to 70 as fast as you can and start doing m+ and raids", it sort of feels like Retail discourages questing because the mobs and quests are so easy. When leveling in Wrath I'd legit just die if I pulled more than 2 mobs, and 2 mobs was hard enough as it was. Such an experience makes the world feel full because you realise that you can't just run around killing anything you want, you're a piece of the world and you have to respect that. For similar reasons, I believe people keep playing Classic. Albeit why they choose Classic Era I can't answer, but it could be related to them enjoying a similar experience as well as them simply liking Classic for what it is. Classic becomes so much more fun when you take the time and accept that the goal of the game isn't getting geared, it's the journey to getting geared.
It's not that retail or classic is better.
It's just that people want something different at times.
If u spent so much time in one game, it's just nice to switch it up sometimes.
I enjoy both games and really love the opportunity to play both games if I want to. And if that do a lot of people at the same time, so the world is populated it's even better
Exactly! Finally someone said it, instead of just "X iS bEtTer tHaN Y".
I personally like Classic more, simply because I like the journey. But I often switch to retail, because I want a change after a burnout.
Yeah, so sick of people coming with "X AND Y IS BETTER"
I played vanilla back in the day and keep coming back to classic. Just started a new classic era char and I've seen more other players in the starting zone than I did while leveling 60-70 in Dragonflight. Classic is easy, true, but also perfect when you just want to login and casually level and do some dungeons. Also the feeling of progression is way better while leveling in classic. You actually get happy for some SM blue drop, or the l40 mount.. in DF i couldnt even notice the character get more powerful due to the level scaling and the gear while leveling meant nothing. True Classic Andy.
I don't understand the classic hate. Vanilla leveling is so satisfying and enjoyable to me. Finding greens and blues is actually exciting and a big deal, whether its for gold or character power, if I find a green on wrath I don't even blink, just vendor it, it's worthless. Find a green on retail I don't even loot it, waste of bag space.
Forming and running dungeons for blue weps and big upgrades vs just wearing BOA's or buying a character boost.
So many things, it's like an actual MMORPG vs raid logging simulator.
Playing Classic Era now with people leveling for the fun of it feels a lot more like some of the golden days of private servers where it was a lot of people there purely for the joy of the game. I've been bumping into a lot more social people just enjoying themselves adventuring than people rushing to 60 to clear content as fast as possible.
Golden days of private servers? Golden days of vanilla*
@@gollese For me I only said private servers because I actually had more fun on Nostalrius and Light's Hope than I did during actual retail vanilla. Better understanding of the game, and better friends lead to a lot of memorable times for me.
The one single thing I do NOT like about vanilla is how some specs are basically useless. In tbc and wrath, ret pally was easily one of the funnest classes I’ve ever played in an mmo. Just a shame some specs are a waste of time in vanilla
Turtle wow is where it’s at rn for the vanilla+ experience with a hardcore mode with rewards and permadeath
Been playing as alliance on Whitemane, very friendly community, very interactive and helpful. And the best part it’s growing
White mane p2w
I just logged back in to Whitemane yesterday :)
Haven't played Whitemane in a few years. Will have to try it out again :)
ive been playing horde on whitemane and having a great time! whitemane gang!
Just started in Whitemane as well.
Loving it.
Damn,when music hit…
“We didn't know that we were making memories, we just knew that we were having fun.”
I played classic wrath when it came out and droped after my sub ended around lvl 40 or smth, I’ve been thinking of coming back, maybe I’ll just play vanilla classic
Justice shall be done.
Its so nice to be able to hop back on turtle. The main reason being is F2P. So a bunch of new content + F2P + GMs who actually do ban goldsellers + a kickass community.
I never did get around to playing WoW; I actually wouldn't mind playing Vanilla. I had wanted Blizzard to make a vanilla Overwatch with the original cast of characters, but now with OW2 they're just gonna add more and more characters...and people are still going to cry that there aren't enough playable characters.
I starter playing WoW for The first time 2 years ago. I played through Shadowlands not knowing what I was doing just leveling but was overwhelmed by the amount of stuff that was in the game and thought it was stupid that the map was so big but the only area you play in is Shadowlands (after leveling through bfa in 2 hours) so I stopped and went to Wotlk classic a little late into its launch but immediately quite when I found out the most basic and classic version of the game was starting to be popular. The simplicity of it attracted me and the amount of social interaction is incomparable to the other versions of the game
Vanilla Classic is one of the games that will never dies. It has to be the core of what WoW must be in the future.
Boomers die and with them classic wow. You wrong.
@@aidasmatulaitis5175 Ok dude, but retail doesn't even need the boomers to die to be dead, It already is.
I loved Classic Era launch, all the action based in Azeroth is just such a nice thing, the zones are just incredible, the leveling is the best, the classes feel great, and the game isn't oversaturated with content. I hope they decide to do Classic + and change it up, brand new old timey zones, new mobs and bosses, would be awesome.
Hey Asmon, and the readers of this comment...
Its time to face reality - ppl arent going from WOTLK to Classic cuz "WOTLK is hard"
Its bcuz WOTLK is just boring... Im not saying Classic is this super hardcore always having fun experience, but its just has a flavour to it which doesnt exist for anything above TBC...
Even I personally, only continue playing WOTLK cuz of my guild (yes we cleared all HMs ez pz its a fking 12 year old game, dont kid yourself talking about HARD)
But as soon as my guild stops raiding or I get GKicked or w/e, im insta out of this shitshow and back to classic... it just hits different, idk what it is, but Ive enjoyed Vanilla, Classic, SOM more than any other expansions...
PS about Classic being "hard" its not hard to do MC or BWL or AQ40... Naxx is tho, but thats a different story...
The difficulty in Classic comes from time... you can do MC in 4 hours or 1 hour.... if you want to play an MMO to have a HARD BOSS PROGRESSION - you dont play classic... you dont play TBC... you dont play fking WOTLK... you go play retail and get fucked by Mythic raids :)
I'm an old school WoW player who actually quit WoW sometime in the middle of the Burning Crusade (I could see it was getting a bit lame). However I was in a sick guild and one of the best hunters on my server - Some of the best gaming times of my life were playing with my PvP team, capture the flag and having CC wars with druids. I am tempted to come back and give it a try again just for the nostalgia. Thanks for the vid!
Just started a warrior on bloodstail yesterday there were enough low levels playing that people were standing in line waiting on spawns for hogger and it took me forever to get enough gnoll bracers to finish the quest
Yep, I’ve been playing a lot lately as well. I just enjoy going through leveling and just existing in the game. It’s comfy and enjoyable.
Asmon over here getting a nerdgasm from those gear sets is the funniest thing ever
Most fun I had was spending hours in BRD trying to clear the whole thing back in the day
Just started wow for the first time ever and i enjoy playing vanilla classic so far its very immersing for such an old game i really feel like im going to get lost exploring this giant world
"people like classic wow because it's easy" except the reason why anyone is playing right now is because of the hardcore challenge
Different kind of difficulty. Less sitting with sims and grinding m+ forever to get optimal gear so you can do high end content. And more a personal challenge of not pulling to much, planning take downs, using cc and so on.
Nah. Hardcore is only a fraction of the people playing classic right now. There is literally only one HC server on NA and there are like 15 non HC servers that have a medium population.
@@cobra7282 perhaps, but the game is getting greater visibility because content creators are playing hardcore
Seeing this from Turtle WoW, doing RFK as a HC.
I love that people know and are familiar again with old classic gear and tier sets. Getting hyped seeing someone in classic naxx faith set or seeing a hand of rag.
The guild notes killed me man.
As much as im glad that classic is still out there for people to enjoy, it has aged in some way, or maybe some players (me included) have aged out of it. i think it would be better if they used classic+ as a foundation or a template for an ACTUAL wow 2. where it would feel like a classic wow (slow paced combat, chance that your attacks will miss, weapon skills, world PVP, etc) but with QoL changes and in a way make it be like Guild wars 2 where everything you get at max level will never become obsolete in another expansion while maintaining classic's gameplay.
hell it would even allow for a potentially beefed up world PVP where alliance and horde are a thing of the past and instead the two factions are completely independant of the main racial factions (orc clans, Theramore and Stormwind humans, high elves and blood elves, etc but fight over control of the continents in what would be a combination of Guild wars 2's world vs world and TBC zones where you had towers you could capture for a world buff.
This age Asmon mentioned, lol I'm now 50 years old & still play, currently level 22 in hardcore.
I play Classic to chill & rum M+s in Retail when I'm more awake.
I started playing late November 2022 and i'm enjoying the game even though I'm still at FREE TRIAL up to now. Planning to buy the 6-month subscription for my 31st birthday this month so I can progress more and try WoW Classic. I remember watching my cousin play this game back in 2004 when it was released but can't play with him because I can't afford the monthly subscription of the game.
Turtle WOW! there u got ur Classic+
Really didn't think vanilla would make a comeback in the middle of a relaunch of the most popular xpac ever and the first decent retail xpac in years.
After casually just exploring through BFA and DF zones, idk how can blizzard not put a focus or emphasis on leveling, the zones are so immersive and beautiful and interactive. How can they put so much aesthetic and immsersive detail and make them trivial just for the sake of rushing people through endgame. Another big issue is that you play through an expansion and if you follow the story you are a big loser because once you hit 60, just forget what story you were following, you are thrown into a completely new story with no context.
not everyone likes lvling, i play since vanilla and lvling was a fking chore for me i'm happy with retail now
Turtle wow has made some great additions to classic. I hope blizzard takes notes for their next release, but I'm not keeping my hopes up...
Im new in WoW since Classic came out. I tried classic, tbc, wotlk and retail. Classic is the best but it need some little class/race balance and arena for pvp. HC is also really nice.
But it is a pointless time dump, because at the end of the day there is no future, it will not receive more content , trends die out quickly and eventually thousands of hours invested for no reason.
They shouldn't rerelease anything.
Instead they should always have at least 1 realm that is unchanging. People played on Nostalrius and other private servers far longer than they played on official classic realms. BECAUSE they were unchanging.
I 100% guarantee that if you have 1 classic realm it will always be full.
I never played classic originally, or even this last time around but am dabbling in it right now. There is something about it that is enjoyable. I happen to like that game through Cata. Like, we've cleared Ulduar and I enjoy farming it but I like swapping from wotlk to classic depending on what is or isn't going on. Also, all hard-modes are cleared. Really the only one that's really hard is Mimiron. There's something I like about the first 3 expansions the most.
classic twinks were a huge reason the game felt so good in the 1-29 lvl range since so many people would go level up and grind the gear, this even helped the economy
on top of that people would stop leveling on purpose for a while to experience the PVP at 19/29/39 etc...
this is just 1 of many reasons why classic leveling feels so much better than any other MMO
so I am of the opinion they just need to add new battle grounds, and 1 dungeon for lvls 15-25-35-etc... maybe 1 world pvp event/area as well
Already did all end game content on wrath and retail and tbh I'm done with end game stuff. The constant grind repeating the same exact things every week just doesn't appeal to me anymore. I am LOVING hardcore(although I'm on TurtleWow) because it feels like a fun new journey with every new character it try after dying.
Vanilla as a game itself was great. Sure a few things here and there to tweak but overall the only issue I had with it was class balance.
Not even talking about homogenizing everything either. Itemization, scaling, and overall balance in general... for example:
Warriors being the only useful tank.
Priests being the only useful healer.
Weapon damage scaling for melee, especially Ferals who have a best in slot from a level 20 dungeon.
Pressing 1 button for most of the game.
Some classs being nigh useless in their own right.
... class balance is the only reason I regard TBC+ as better. Because your class is the lens with which you view the game through. Like one spec of each class could be considered useful, and only three classes were in a half-decent spot.
I really enjoyed classic WoW - but fuck going back to that.
I kind of get it though, chilling in a guild group running scholo to complete something for someone, you've done it so many times and you need nothing but you just shoot the breeze while stomping mobs that used to give you trouble and you're helping a guildy - there's a warm feeling in that.
FFXI classic era+ servers include a hardcore mode and its true to the classicness of FFXI. It also does this really well where the game doesnt begin at 75 (level cap). You are literally against a hard harsh world much like classic where you need others to help. It builds such a great community I hardly find one toxic person...
More so vanilla being easy, I love it for its simplicity. The play style and move set for all classes is ideal for me.
well said. I cant wait to go back to wow classic, once i am done work this summer i will be playing for the winter months.
Nothing beats classic, that's why it's a classic.
Old school RuneScape draws me back at least 2 times a year i just cant escape it. Its not even just nostalgia its just honestly fun.
I think saying classic is easy you don't send your message clear enough.
Classic questing is not that easy and I think that makes it good.
Retail questing is easy and makes it bad.
I think you refer to the end game, and I agree with you there.
But I believe majority of the people who want to have fun is leveling. Enjoy the journey and not the destination. Moreover because the destination is full of sweaty try hards with no life.
I know Wraith is easy to blame for the influx, but it could be that Dragonflight is hitting a dry-spell as well. Wraith still seems popular to me and I don't think DF is as good as people make it out to be.
I feel like WoW should have leagues like in PoE or Diablo. They'll have HC leagues that restart every so often. They should do huge updates to the classes as well.
I saw a Facebook post on the classic group I'm in and it was saying classic is booming again. I decided to roll a warrior and tank this go around. I didn't clone my priest and should have but I honestly didn't know at the time you could. I haven't played Modern WOW and left after Wrath. Moved on with life but classic has such good memories!! Classic has me right back in!
Awesome to see my character in the video at SW.
Add a dungeon finder
I would like to see them reimagine the Death Knight as a vanilla style class, as well as the Monk. They could also add more world bosses and maybe hard modes for some of the lower level dungeons with better loot.
It's a more chill experience for me personally. I also much prefer Azeroth to any of the xpac zones. The whole zone feels relevant and more immersive I think.
Azeroth is a continent, not a zone.
You have no idea how great it feels to see returning and brand new players jumping around all the zones
I’ve welcomed so many new players and met so many old ones
some of the leveling guilds have had to split off more then once it’s crazy
edit: even horde on whitemane which is alliance dominated slightly is popping off
Hydraxion waterlords on EU also packed AF. Ive never seen so many people in the open world since i started WoW actually. Its quite hard to tag anything as mage for quests. Named quests are literally impossible, way too much lines and people just ignoring it. Still quite fun tbh.
"classic being too easy is why it was popular" is such a reductive and stupid statement. This dude projects himself on everyone and claims it as fact.
20:58 what a stud ! i loved ganking in stormwind. never got out alive but took some with me. my goal was to spread the feeling that stormwind wasnt save.
I wish I had cloned my 60 hunter when I had the chance but I believe many people believed the same thing, that Era servers were dead, and that WOTLK was the be all save all of WoW classic. I can't bring myself to restart from level 1 on era because as a casual player I prefer the leveling process in WOTLK much more. This is for a few big reasons.
1. No mount until level 40 in Era.
Makes sense to have the epic mount require level 60 but not getting your mount for so long really turns the first 40 levels into a complete slog unless you're playing a class with some movement speed buff, hunter, shaman, druid pretty much.
2. Class limitations are a general turn off. I remember when SOM was about to launch I was SO hyped to play prot paladin, and tank raids etc. Only to find out after a bit of research that if I wanted to do that, I'd better get use to GBoK spamming.
I don't think addressing these two simple issues would take much away from the feel of classic overall, and would make for a much more enjoyable new player experience.
Vanilla is just great! I mean easy or hard doesn't matter. I think people just missed that magic that community for starters. Then there's leveling it's not trivial in vanilla and I actually enjoyed leveling back in vanilla.
Ya. It’s not a big surprise that people love classic. If you look back at the oldest version of “classic” (nostalrius) it makes a lot of sense why people come back to Vanilla versions of the game. I like to think of it as you can change the formula to something as much as you want, but some people will just prefer the original formula
Vanilla classic is like lord of the ring but Wrath of Dragonflight is like rings of power
Best thing about classic is the slow pace, retail feels like you're on a rat wheel. You gring for mythic gear and mythic+ vault loot bis only for all the work to mean absolutely nothing when the next season starts. Classic you can actually enjoy the story and explore not bc of a zone explore achieve but because you really want to see what's hidden in places
The guy in the video sounds like he just did a heroic dose of cough syrup and the world is moving at half speed for him.
im very interested what they could do if they really do classic + some day
There's just something magical about vanilla that no other expansion ever came close to reproducing. Very wholesome to see new players discovering WoW in its best state.
Classic is just more fun imo. I played dragonflight and wotlk for a while and ended up getting bored when getting to end game and arena. Not sure if its an age thing or I just suck but arenas/raiding is too sweaty for me and I would just be pissed off all the time lol. I've enjoyed classic because I can just chill and enjoy the leveling experience with friends.
I've been doing the hardcore challenge with both an alliance and a horde character. These are the only reason I've been subscribed for the past few months. A lot of fun and very active on Bloodsail Buccaneers.
I play Era because of the serotonin hit and because there is no mob scaling (I also play WOTLK). Have played WOW off and on since mid-vanilla.
Classic was wanted and gotten on private servers a long time ago. There's a history of desire for classic that runs nearly as long as the games existence.
Asmon is right, the best part of wow classic you can "beat" it. That must be such a great feeling to get BiS in all slots and know that new content isnt coming, must feel like a god
I’ve had more fun on hardcore than Wrath and Retail.
Wrath is just raid logging. Raid isn’t as hard as Asmon makes it.
Retail is alright. Loved the m+, raid was enjoyable. It’s just the “hey it’s near the end of the season, take a break and get re-energized for S2” thing.
Hardcore is a leveling journey. You’re not spamming DGs to 60, being bored out of your mind. You’re out in Desolace, or Arathi, or Westfall. Grinding XP and having fun. The fear of death always there.
Just my opinion, obviously.
New player here, retail is super overwhelming and pushes you to max level super fast, Ive been wanting to go to classic but im not sure which server to play on, i like playing with hellah people, any suggestions?
TURTLE WOW IS LITERALLY CLASSIC + COME CHECK IT OUT
The hardcore realms are packed. 1000 player guilds and 900 of them (in my guild as an example) have been online in the last 3 days.
Yoo what server is everyone playing on?
@@codye2965 bloodsail buccaneers for hardcore NA I believe (for ally at least) Whitemane cluster for horde / ally regular PvP server, and Mankrik for ally PvE. All 3 of them are popping off lately.
A server that starts at 1.12, when the last raid gets cleared the whole server is hard reset and everyone gets 25% increased xp buff and all end game bosses get buffed by 5%. Stack both buffs for every reset. just to see how hard end game has to be before its impossible.
Did a WC run with Aza the other day, seems like a chill dude
Let me just say: If they did like what Turtle have done as an "altrnste timeline" would be cool.
If there is one thing I want for a new classic season of mastery that I dont think ever would be added it would be the ablility to do all the end game raids in 10 man. I have 10 good friends even some that have never played WoW that would join up to level and play to 60 if we could do the raids with just our group. Like I said though, I doubt they make that change.
Been on whitemane for over a year now, still love it! speed clearing naxx and collecting different sets is very fun.
I never looked back to vanilla back then when wotlk was out.. No way, i was looking forward to new expansions! And yeah, i enjoyed Cata and WoD.
I played vanilla the first time 'round - stopped when Cata released...the atmosphere and community during the first few years of the game were amazing but declined with each expansion...until it was a toxic mess. I'm very tempted to try classic as Disc Priest and Frost Mage are my two favourite classes of any MMO ever...the healing and CC gameplay are superb...though I can't quite remember what state they were in during the classic period. Hmmmmm.
I just ran out of cares to give for end game content on wotlk and I started leveling alts, then I realised if I'm just in it for the leveling then I will just play vanilla because the experience is more fulfilling
It's funny for me.. My brother raids 2-3 nights a week on Wrath Classic. He's reliving his best memories of his WotLK experience. He's competitive and likes to be the best at whatevers he is playing. He has most classes at level 80 by now. But myself, I just like levelling and questing. Most of my character are in the 20-70 range. The end game grind has never been my thing, but for my brother it's the exact opposite. And I think WoW is all the better for it. It can house both nostalgic casuals, and hardcore nostalgics. Or Hardcore new mmo-ers, and players who are new to mmo's but want to casually enjoy the experience at their own pace.
Hardcore has made me enjoy wow so much more in the past few weeks. I'm actually paying attention to the game. Not just raid logging and trying to get them parses.