I appreciate the love! That was a huge incentive for me to get started in the first place: wanting to see someone review things that I grew up with, mainly DOS games.
Hey LGR, please keep this here forever, i had a very nostalgic feeling watching this video and the computers you are using here, I remember my grandfather PC because of you, it is a really good feeling. Thank you! If possible can you please make a refresher video for 2021-22 on buying dos computers. I think it would help me, as well as many other people get into classic retro games.
Hey LGR, you should make a refresher video for 2015 on buying dos computers. I think it would help me, as well as many other people get into classic retro games. Thank you, Kevin
Thank again Videogame Nerd. I'll definetly look into that computer if I can find it for a good price on ebay. I think that for me, I want to get into dos/early windows gaming on a budget but will keep that in mind when I buy a computer. Lastly, thank you and I would try to either PM or message LGR about that particular game, maybe he'll have it/cover it.
That red "3dfx" pc I showed is almost that exactly! Win9x, P2 at 233Mhz. Lovely machine for the majority of DOS gaming! BTW, love the ICS PC repair vids you posted, I've had fun watching those.
This video is great. I love the background music as well as the tips you given. However, I haven't had any problems with DosBox so far, but I'll certainly watch this in case I want to build a classic DOS-PC one day.
Personally I preffer the 486dx2 66 with vesa local bus for a dos machine. Its one of the fastest machines released before the plug and play and PCI age, brought by Windows 95 and Pentium CPU. With turbo function off or disabling L1 and L2 cache you have also a 286 for the price of one computer. Thus it is possible to run games published in a vast period of time. Only the last ones dos games (like dosquake and Duke 3d) wont run in such pc.
Holy crap, this is like the video I've been waiting for...Lately I've been talking SO MUCH about how I want a classic DOS/3.1 computer to play all these old games like they should be played...This will definitely be a great help. Thanks again, man!
@TheLogicman1 Hey and thanks! A-Train is a pure DOS game, so Windows ME wouldn't be the best choice to try and run it. 98SE or lower is the very latest I've gotten it to work with somewhat, but really the best is a pure DOS environment... it can be quite particular. You'd have far better luck running it on any newer PC with the DosBox emulator.
I use 3 different dos PC's for different times 1. Tandy 1000 RL/HD for old CGA games and Tandy games. MS-DOS 3.3. 30 MB Disk. 2. IBM PC AT for EGA and early VGA games. MS-DOS 3.3. 30 MB Disk. 3. Custom Super Socket 7 AMD K6 II+ for everything from a 386 to a Pentium II. MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 98 Dual-Boot, C: is the boot and MS-DOS drive (for both 6.22 and 7.1) and D: is for Windows. C: is 2 GB, D: is 8 GB.
@viperxeon I keep them clean and out of sunlight and I don't smoke. That helps tremendously. Otherwise, it's just up to the kind of flame retardants that were used in the plastic where they were made. Some plastics have a tendency to yellow no matter when, and for that you'll just need to use some Retr0Bright solution on them.
Yes, if you have the proper drive hooked up and working on the host PC, you can use DOSBox to read from it. It's much simpler to just use an ISO or disk image though.
I wish the frame rate was a bit higher on Camtasia, but it gets the job done. I hate paying too, but I've been using it for years for capturing PowerPoint shows and such and it works, so I've held onto that license!
@TommyDDoom Not bad. Unless you want to play the later DOS games, like Blood, Carmageddon, or Quake very well at least. 32MB RAM and a much larger hard drive would do wonders. And you left out CPU, which is a pretty vital stat. For that setup I'd recommend a 75-100MHz 486DX/4, although a Pentium will be better for the aforementioned later DOS games.
I really liked the tips. Gotta agree with all of them and my personal favorite, of all the machines, was the last one. I would just like to add that having a GOOD sound card - AWE32, for instance - really helps on midi based games, as it pumps the sound quality quite a bit.
Not if you know where to (patiently) look. Have you looked on eBay or somewhere like the Vintage Computer Forums? These machines and their parts are all over the place. If they're not there today, they'll probably be there soon.
My Windows 98 machine has an s-video out port, my Windows 95/DOS machines I use an SVGA->S-Video converter box (it's a scanline converter which accepts 640x480), and my IBM 5150 has a CGA card with composite output. I then use a USB capture device on my Windows 7 PC. For the newest games I use the capture program Fraps. Otherwise, I'll just use DosBox with a capture app like Camtasia, if the above options aren't feasible.
This is why I have 4 DOS PC's IBM 5150 w/ DOS 3.3 IBM PS/2 286 w/ DOS 6.22 IBM 300GL PI w/ Win 3.1 and an HP Pavilion 7090 w/ Win95 Good video! I am an artist, but gaming is a big hobby of mine! An even bigger hobby, figuring out how to display and organize all of your machines.
That is an awesome system indeed, should play most anything but the very latest DOS games with ease. Epic and Apogee titles should be no problem at all.
@PkInWild Oh yeah, it's overkill for most DOS stuff. Anything faster than a 486DX/33 is probably more than you'll need. But that one's for playing the last DOS games from like 1997-98, like Carmageddon, Shadow Warrior and Quake, which actually push it to its limits, even with a Voodoo accelerator card installed. It can still play the older stuff too though, so long as it's not one of those games that requires a slow CPU to play.
I said Win9x, which is a totally different beast from XP regarding DOS. Yes, you can probably get something working with XP. But honestly, if you're using a later Windows PC, you may as well just use DOSBox. No hacks, cracks, or extra utilities needed, and the games are likely going to look and play better. The video is for a specific person: one wanting a true DOS gaming experience, without the need for emulation, work-arounds, or other assorted facets relating to using more modern hardware.
Ahh the wonderful world of Dos! I just finished custom building my MS-DOS machine and it's so fulfilling turning it on for the first time and seeing it in action! It's currently running Dos 6.21 and works like a charm! The only problem though is finding games. At least in my area and some people's prices on eBay are absolutely ridiculous.
But all the DOS games can easily be just downloaded from the Internet now... As for me, I have a collection of old computer stuff - about 80 computers, mostly 286-Piii PC's. some 1989-1999 macs, A3000 Amiga and a Kaypro 10. Alll the necessary software I just download. Alas, I have only 2 boxed games, I wish I have more...)
@01EmptyBox A GeForce 2 will likely be fine, most games will see it as a VESA/SVGA-capable video card from my experience. You shouldn't really need any drivers or anything, other than maybe some standard VESA drivers for a game or two and usually the game comes with them - but this is a minor issue you probably won't run into. As for a setup for DOS 6.22 on CD, it was only on floppies. But you can download the installation from places like Vetusware's website and burn it to a disc if you want.
@Gregunit You know the phrase "they just don't make 'em like they used to"? It's not just an overused catch-all motto! Many things really did have a higher build quality back then. Otherwise, I don't know. Bad luck I guess.
Other than eBay, no idea. I'm also in the same boat: first PC was a Packard Bell Legend 486, hate myself for trashing it. Searched eBay and many other places for years looking for another, and have never once found one for a decent price. One or two show up for a few hundred bucks, but that's insane for a regular ol' PC of that age.
Ahhh, proper computers, seeing other peoples DOS systems brings a smile to my face for some strange reason! :D I find a P2 around 266Mhz on 98SE with a proper DOS environment set up to be a good all-rounder for this task. You should do a "make a video about your dos PC" it'd be fun.
I'm currently resurrecting an old 486 DX 33MHz machine, that's using a Tseng 1mb card, sound blaster 16 CT2290, and 8MB of 30-pin sodimm ram. Thinking of swapping out the 486 DX 33 with am AM5x86 133MHz cpu, bump up the ram to 32MB, switch the SB 16 with an AWE32 CT2790, and grab an ATI Mach64 2MB card. Only thing I had to do was to solder off an old, nearly leaking ni-cad battery. Had to clean the hell out of the area it was on, and test the leads with a prob...damn those ni-cads...
Thank goodness Clint ditched the VHS camera! The content was still solid, though. The irony of this is, by the time I got my first usable computer in 1997 (the Tandy CoCo 2 I got in 1987 doesn’t count and was already quite obsolete even then), I was using it for internet access and late high school / early college work and not gaming. I have never been a PC gamer. I grew up on the Atari 2600, NES, and SNES. So, I have no idea why I find this so interesting when I don't even have DOS games I remember playing. There were two exceptions. 1) We briefly played the original _Sim City_ at school in my eighth-grade computer class as part of the curriculum. We didn’t spend much time on it, but I thought it was intriguing. 2) I briefly flirted with playing _Descent 2_ on my 1997 PC, but I never had time to really get into that one. My mom was an elementary school teacher, and starting in 1994, she got to bring the Macintosh LC575 from her classroom home for the summer break. I loved using it to make art projects. I was never any good at real painting or drawing, but I could do that quite well. I wish I had spent more time later on investing in graphic design skills. She had some silly educational games for young kids, but I was 14 at the beginning of that phase, so none of that interested me. I just liked to "paint." We never hooked that Mac up to the internet. I don’t remember if it even had a modem.
Should be, yeah. You'll just need to install some compatible DOS CD-ROM drivers and make sure the thing is set up to run them when needed (using good ol' MSCDEX or whatever).
MAN... I am so jealous. Love that red tower. I would love a rig that also has a 5.25 floppy in addition to the 3.5 and CD drive. My first PC ever was a 5150, later the family upgraded to an IBM PS/2 386 with Windows 3.1, my next machine was a Pentium II with a Voodoo 2 and Soundblaster. I miss them all :-(
DosBox has a great capture ability built in, yes. But my problem with it is the format of AVI it uses for some reason doesn't work properly with my editing program, Adobe Premiere CS4. Either the video doesn't show or the sound and video are corrupt. It's strange, though I haven't tried it with Win7 so maybe I'll have to try again.
Most anything made in the past 3 years should be just fine for MMO's. If you're looking to build one: Core 2 Duo or Athlon/Phenom x2 256-512MB GeForce 8800 or equivalent ATI card 2GB RAM Windows XPSP3 or 7 I've used a similar setup for years and it runs things fine, even Crysis is quite playable. The rest of the hardware is pretty much whatever you want.
DOSBox is an emulator. It's not 100% compatible or accurate as a real DOS PC. There is a selection of software that simply doesn't run at all. It's also a very "hands-off" experience, where you just simply plop some software into a mounted drive and go. Lots of us still prefer that classic feel of real disks, real hardware. Disadvantages of a DOS PC are cost, physical space needed, and differing hardware specs needed. Like you have to use a real ET4000 card instead of just changing a parameter.
@LL1K Well, I found them on the internet mostly... forums like the Vintage Computer Forums, other TH-cam members, many on eBay, AtariAge users, but also local thrift stores, Craigslist and friends. Anywhere and everywhere really.
Very informative! I kept a few mobos from the old days and sold the large towers since I just didn't have the space to store them. Man, those were the days. I still remember running out to buy a $300 SB Awe32 and spending $600 on 16MB of RAM! :P
@Nyocurio DOSBox is an emulator, and as such it has its problems inherent with emulation. Incompatibility, speed issues, imperfect video and sound emulation, etc. It's nice in a pinch, but it's not the same as a real DOS machine. FreeDOS is just an OS, like DOS. It either needs to run under an emulator or on real hardware.
Bought a Pentium 1 Based Compaq Deskpro 2000 off eBay for $19. Was in need of a good cleanout and some extra screws here and there but it works fine and came with quite a bit of software!
@MasterGamerful Or literally any one of thousands of comparable clones! :D That's the thing with PCs... no need to list any brands because you don't really have to. A PC is a PC is a PC, for the most part.
Let's see: collectors, hobbyists, enthusiasts, retro gamers, programmers, hardware tinkerers, reviewers like myself, people who are just plain curious about the old days, the list goes on. Considering the amount of email I constantly get regarding DOS, I'd say the number of people who still use it for fun is quite high. That's like asking "who uses old cars anymore?"... obviously, people who enjoy and love old cars use old cars. What a silly question.
I don't like the slowdown utilities on anything faster than a Pentium. They work fine for slowing things down when the PC is moderately faster than what you're trying to play. But when you start slowing it down 90%+ you get choppiness issues with many older games and post-Pentium II CPUs.
Installed it and I still get the same problems... I can capture through DosBox and then convert those ZMBV files to WMV or something that Premiere accepts. But it's annoying to do that when I can get the same or better quality through Camtasia.
I tried it with the DosBox installer like that as well as through a codecs package, and it still denied it. Premiere really, really sucks for video many formats as well as capturing from certain devices... Thanks for the help though
@Lachlant1984 I downgraded the CPU from 233Mhz to 120Mhz, installed a pure MS-DOS 6.22 OS, and installed an SB16 sound card. Just to make things nice and smooth for the vast majority.
A PC that slow is going to be pretty crap at x86 emulation for games like that. However, if you were to install Windows 95 or 98SE, you'll be able to play the games just fine natively.
I've just found a really awesome emulator called Boxer for the Mac, it's based on DOSBox 0.74 so theoretically it should run anything that DOSBox on its own will run, now the challenge is finding games I want to play, you've recommended GOG in the past but they don't have all the games I want, so it's a matter of finding good websites that have the games I want without screwing me over or ripping me off, I've already been bitten once.
@phreakindee Thanks for the answer! I simply installed dos 7.1 cd install ver, everything works fine, tested blood, duke3d, doom and all of them runs whitout problems. i only had problems with keen4, fucked ups colors, i thinks caused by the geforce 2 non detected well... Will check that soon. Keep your videos up, you're an awesome guy! thanks again.
I know your whole theme is older computers but you should really do a review on the current computer you run windows 7 on. It would be interesting to see the specs you have for that one since you do play so many Sims 3 games and do reviews on them.
I need to either acquire or assemble a good DOS gaming PC sometime. I used to have a 486 box that worked great for DOS gaming, but it's in storage 4 hours away from my house, and I'm not even sure if the motherboard will still work because it had one of those barrel batteries on it and I wouldn't be surprised if it has burst by now.
what monitor should i use? I found an old laptop, which is a 390x thinkpad, installed mortal kombat ii and found the graphics to be quite pixelated. the native resolution I believe is 1024x768, that seems a bit high for older games, maybe it's the fact that it's not crt as well, but which is more the case for the pixelation? I'll be up(down)grading to a more proper retro machine in the future, so is the problem the high resolution or the fact that it is not a crt monitor? or both? also, subbed:)
Much love for the Packard Bell. My first PC was a Packard Bell with a 486SX25 and 4 glorious MB of RAM. No idea what video card came with it other than it approximated a Sound Blaster Pro with... some degree of accuracy.
I have a crush on the 486 generation. There are some fine processors, which came out at the end of this era around 1995. For example, i got an AMD X5-133 overclocked to 160MHz. Best 486 cpu i ever had. Coupled with a Matrox Millenium and a SB AWE32. Good DOS Machine. Playing like back in the days ! I also had a Pentium III for DOS games, but for me it just had to be a machine from a time, when DOS was really present and used. Also built a 386 for late 80s and early 90s games.
LGR, What's your preference on graphics/screen types for dos and win 95 games? I heard "stay away" from SVGA and the dtsn (I think I spelled that right) as they can have ghosting and trailing movement on scrolling dos games. I recently bought a Pentium II I'm going to use for dos games. One reason I chose it was it's TFT display. Thanks and your channel rocks. Keep up the good work!
I got an old industrial PC from my Company, a Pentium MMX. It´s really amazing and pretty rare i guess. It has not a common mainboard. It has a PICMG board. CPU and RAM are on a full size CPU card. I´ve never seen anything like this before :) Just turned it into a DOS game machine. Also added a Soundblaster 16 and a Voodoo card :) Im very happy with that thing.
A couple of suggestions for your viewers: build it yourself (most folks here probably build their own or can build their own anyway) and the other option is a single-board PC, that is, an entire PC on a single ISA or PCI card. They're plentiful, and you can find lots of low-end SBPCs on ebay.
Don't know if you still check this video anymore, but your thoughts on the setup I'm working on at the moment? 486 DX4-100, 32MB RAM, SoundBlaster AWE64 Value, S3 Trio, on a Shuttle 433 PCI/ISA hybrid board. It seems to be between the second and third classes you mention there. I'm in my mid 20s and am mostly wanting to play games from around 1990 to 1998 ish, with a heavy emphasis on Epic and Apogee titles. Do you think its a good setup for that?
I remember that HP Vectra machine, my step father had one at his work and also former neighbours had one too. In what way did you modify the computer to run DOS games?
God bless LGR and all his work in uncovering the history of home computers! God bless Techmoan and 8-Bit Guy as well, among many others. However, for 99% of us who haven't got the funds or engineering/ tech ability to acquire and keep these behemoths running, or the necessary software, isn't asking the question "which MS-DOS computer should I buy?" rather like asking "Which Model T Ford should I buy"?
I agree with this, I got 2 pre-built 486 pcs for $50 each. Just upgraded one to am5x86, the other is a small Unisys Cwd4002 which is nice and portable but no cd drive can be added to it. I got around this buy using a parallel zip drive instead to get large files onto it, though I considered getting a ide to compact flash adapter to replace the hdd with a bootable cf.
Except that they don't run on "true DOS" and you'll run into a lot of problems that running, say, DOS 6.22 won't. It will do for many mid-90's games just fine, but for anything older than about 1994, you'll want real DOS in order to get around a lot of headaches.
Ahh yeah, the memories. I remember when i got my first own PC, it was in 2000 and i was in fifth grade. Someday my dad came from work and brought me one of the very old 486's they got rid of and asked me if want it. i Loved it, later got me some old Dos Handbooks, expanded the ram to 4Mb , installed an 500 mb Hard Disk and an 4xspeed CD drive to play Simon the Sourcerer,Doom, Indy and Settlers.
I agree. DOSBox is a very cheap alternative, and it usually comes bundled with all games that are on GOG that are needing of it. Personally, id still like to use a system with Win95 or 98SE with at least a PIII 500 and 128-256MB RAM to play the classic windows games as such. For the older DOS games, I feel that a 486DX4 100Mhz with 8MB RAM on DOS 6 does the trick too, even with the slowdown software. Unfortunately, I had to donate those computers due to space constraints. To each gamer his own.
Yes, it would be easier. But continuing with Phreakindee's car analogy. It's easier to drive a Honda Civic than an old Ferrari, but it's a hell of a lot less fun. It might be a good way to do it if you don't want to spend much on it and you want it to be easy to use, but for the proper retro experience you NEED a DOS PC. I wish I had one :)
First of all, GREAT video because I'd like to get PC for DOS gaming! But if you get one with Windows '95 already installed-and I would think it would be hard not to-can you still run DOS games on it, and if so, how?
Very delayed reply: I had two 21" CRTs (a bit over 30kg each) on the 'desk' I had as a teenager, a 3/4" chipboard sheet from the top of an early-'90s big-box-store office desk supported by some old hardwood shelves on one side and an upended HP server chassis on the other. Still have my lower legs.
My dad use to play DOS games in the early to about 1995 games on his i think 386 computer. Had a bad ass sound card in it. These days i play older games through DOS Box.
I like the Tseng Labs ET4000 graphics cards as well. One thing that I've found was my framerates for DOS games were better on my fast 133 Mhz 486 and early Pentium (75 Mhz) systems when I increased my RAM from 16 megabytes to above 24 megabytes to 32 megabytes.I know it seems strange but the framerates were increased in many games (almost doubled). One of my favorite DOS PC's was a slimline AST Advantage and also a slimline Dell Optiplex desktop.
i think a PCI machine does the trick. even 486. but with pci you could use USB cards. they come in handy for many purposes. for what i prefer more is a PS2 mouse port as the old ballmice are hard to get and often dirty. you really want an optical mouse, believe me! btw. check for pentiums up to 233 MMX. you can disable the caches video/bios/cpu for slowdown. don't use the slowdown TSRs as they're jerky for smooth gameplay.
Hey, awesome video and channel! Can you use modern CD-ROM drives with the old computers? I would hate to have to use my CREATIVE LABS 2x that I used back in the day- it took 7 mins to load Wing Commander, and it took me only 30 seconds to die!
I hodgepodged a DOS Pc together.I had a nice little XP system,big HDD, limited everything else.Got it for free when a friend upgraded to vista.I pulled the HDD from it when my main system died that I was running the win7beta7k on.The XP pc's built in graphics couldn't support7,but it had2gb of RAM,the one that could support 7 graphically had 512mb of RAM, I was at quite a quandary.7 is very efficacy thou, and could run well on 512. So I put DOS 6.0 on xp's,and have dos running on 2 gb of RAM :)
I got a USB floppy drive and mounted it in DOSBox so I still use 3,5'' floppy disks for my modern PC in DOSBox. It just feels so much better than just downloading the games.
I appreciate the love! That was a huge incentive for me to get started in the first place: wanting to see someone review things that I grew up with, mainly DOS games.
Hello
DOS games are something else when it comes to nostalgia.
Hey LGR, please keep this here forever, i had a very nostalgic feeling watching this video and the computers you are using here, I remember my grandfather PC because of you, it is a really good feeling. Thank you!
If possible can you please make a refresher video for 2021-22 on buying dos computers. I think it would help me, as well as many other people get into classic retro games.
Hey LGR, you should make a refresher video for 2015 on buying dos computers. I think it would help me, as well as many other people get into classic retro games.
Thank you,
Kevin
TheOutsider ofParadise I'm hoping to do that, yeah!
Thanks LGR, I really appreciate it.
Thank again Videogame Nerd. I'll definetly look into that computer if I can find it for a good price on ebay. I think that for me, I want to get into dos/early windows gaming on a budget but will keep that in mind when I buy a computer. Lastly, thank you and I would try to either PM or message LGR about that particular game, maybe he'll have it/cover it.
Hell yeah!
It's a bit late, but you got your wish Outsider of paradise.
I really loved this old style of videos that you did at the time.
kargaroc386 They're comfy.
I certainly appreciate it, I'm glad you enjoy!
That red "3dfx" pc I showed is almost that exactly! Win9x, P2 at 233Mhz. Lovely machine for the majority of DOS gaming!
BTW, love the ICS PC repair vids you posted, I've had fun watching those.
This video is great. I love the background music as well as the tips you given. However, I haven't had any problems with DosBox so far, but I'll certainly watch this in case I want to build a classic DOS-PC one day.
Personally I preffer the 486dx2 66 with vesa local bus for a dos machine. Its one of the fastest machines released before the plug and play and PCI age, brought by Windows 95 and Pentium CPU. With turbo function off or disabling L1 and L2 cache you have also a 286 for the price of one computer. Thus it is possible to run games published in a vast period of time. Only the last ones dos games (like dosquake and Duke 3d) wont run in such pc.
Clint, you NEED to film an update to this video, outlining your new picks and current pricing on markets like eBay.
Holy crap, this is like the video I've been waiting for...Lately I've been talking SO MUCH about how I want a classic DOS/3.1 computer to play all these old games like they should be played...This will definitely be a great help. Thanks again, man!
Wow I am just looking back at your old vids and you have come so far. Keep up the good work!!!
@TheLogicman1 Hey and thanks!
A-Train is a pure DOS game, so Windows ME wouldn't be the best choice to try and run it. 98SE or lower is the very latest I've gotten it to work with somewhat, but really the best is a pure DOS environment... it can be quite particular.
You'd have far better luck running it on any newer PC with the DosBox emulator.
I love your intros, especially these older ones with the can of coke, hilarious!
Just putting DOS 6.22 mainly, although I also installed a Sound Blaster 16 and SVGA card for increased compatibility.
Yes it was, good ear! (and thanks! it's always a good choice IMO)
@LL1K Sound Blaster 16. It's what I used in my Vectra.
I use 3 different dos PC's for different times
1. Tandy 1000 RL/HD for old CGA games and Tandy games. MS-DOS 3.3. 30 MB Disk.
2. IBM PC AT for EGA and early VGA games. MS-DOS 3.3. 30 MB Disk.
3. Custom Super Socket 7 AMD K6 II+ for everything from a 386 to a Pentium II. MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 98 Dual-Boot, C: is the boot and MS-DOS drive (for both 6.22 and 7.1) and D: is for Windows. C: is 2 GB, D: is 8 GB.
@viperxeon I keep them clean and out of sunlight and I don't smoke. That helps tremendously. Otherwise, it's just up to the kind of flame retardants that were used in the plastic where they were made. Some plastics have a tendency to yellow no matter when, and for that you'll just need to use some Retr0Bright solution on them.
Yes, if you have the proper drive hooked up and working on the host PC, you can use DOSBox to read from it. It's much simpler to just use an ISO or disk image though.
@charger334 Yes, I use a program called HJSplit. It works perfectly for splitting DOS files up for floppy transfers.
I wish the frame rate was a bit higher on Camtasia, but it gets the job done. I hate paying too, but I've been using it for years for capturing PowerPoint shows and such and it works, so I've held onto that license!
@TommyDDoom Not bad. Unless you want to play the later DOS games, like Blood, Carmageddon, or Quake very well at least. 32MB RAM and a much larger hard drive would do wonders. And you left out CPU, which is a pretty vital stat. For that setup I'd recommend a 75-100MHz 486DX/4, although a Pentium will be better for the aforementioned later DOS games.
I really liked the tips. Gotta agree with all of them and my personal favorite, of all the machines, was the last one. I would just like to add that having a GOOD sound card - AWE32, for instance - really helps on midi based games, as it pumps the sound quality quite a bit.
Not if you know where to (patiently) look. Have you looked on eBay or somewhere like the Vintage Computer Forums? These machines and their parts are all over the place. If they're not there today, they'll probably be there soon.
@PkInWild Do you mean the tower shown a little after that? That was a 400Mhz Pentium II MMX
My Windows 98 machine has an s-video out port, my Windows 95/DOS machines I use an SVGA->S-Video converter box (it's a scanline converter which accepts 640x480), and my IBM 5150 has a CGA card with composite output. I then use a USB capture device on my Windows 7 PC.
For the newest games I use the capture program Fraps.
Otherwise, I'll just use DosBox with a capture app like Camtasia, if the above options aren't feasible.
This is why I have 4 DOS PC's
IBM 5150 w/ DOS 3.3
IBM PS/2 286 w/ DOS 6.22
IBM 300GL PI w/ Win 3.1
and an HP Pavilion 7090 w/ Win95
Good video! I am an artist, but gaming is a big hobby of mine!
An even bigger hobby, figuring out how to display and organize all of your machines.
That is an awesome system indeed, should play most anything but the very latest DOS games with ease. Epic and Apogee titles should be no problem at all.
@PkInWild Oh yeah, it's overkill for most DOS stuff. Anything faster than a 486DX/33 is probably more than you'll need. But that one's for playing the last DOS games from like 1997-98, like Carmageddon, Shadow Warrior and Quake, which actually push it to its limits, even with a Voodoo accelerator card installed. It can still play the older stuff too though, so long as it's not one of those games that requires a slow CPU to play.
I said Win9x, which is a totally different beast from XP regarding DOS.
Yes, you can probably get something working with XP. But honestly, if you're using a later Windows PC, you may as well just use DOSBox. No hacks, cracks, or extra utilities needed, and the games are likely going to look and play better.
The video is for a specific person: one wanting a true DOS gaming experience, without the need for emulation, work-arounds, or other assorted facets relating to using more modern hardware.
Forget my last comment on your NEC Portable review! This is perfect.
Ahh the wonderful world of Dos! I just finished custom building my MS-DOS machine and it's so fulfilling turning it on for the first time and seeing it in action! It's currently running Dos 6.21 and works like a charm! The only problem though is finding games. At least in my area and some people's prices on eBay are absolutely ridiculous.
Zestypanda Trust me... I've looked...
A little bit of both. I like having the classic version of something or original, but I can always go online and just copy them to a floppy.
Holy crap you got lucky!
But all the DOS games can easily be just downloaded from the Internet now... As for me, I have a collection of old computer stuff - about 80 computers, mostly 286-Piii PC's. some 1989-1999 macs, A3000 Amiga and a Kaypro 10. Alll the necessary software I just download. Alas, I have only 2 boxed games, I wish I have more...)
@01EmptyBox A GeForce 2 will likely be fine, most games will see it as a VESA/SVGA-capable video card from my experience. You shouldn't really need any drivers or anything, other than maybe some standard VESA drivers for a game or two and usually the game comes with them - but this is a minor issue you probably won't run into.
As for a setup for DOS 6.22 on CD, it was only on floppies. But you can download the installation from places like Vetusware's website and burn it to a disc if you want.
@MrGameboy1989 Ha, now that was awesome. Thanks for the link!
@Gregunit You know the phrase "they just don't make 'em like they used to"? It's not just an overused catch-all motto! Many things really did have a higher build quality back then. Otherwise, I don't know. Bad luck I guess.
Other than eBay, no idea. I'm also in the same boat: first PC was a Packard Bell Legend 486, hate myself for trashing it. Searched eBay and many other places for years looking for another, and have never once found one for a decent price. One or two show up for a few hundred bucks, but that's insane for a regular ol' PC of that age.
Ahhh, proper computers, seeing other peoples DOS systems brings a smile to my face for some strange reason! :D
I find a P2 around 266Mhz on 98SE with a proper DOS environment set up to be a good all-rounder for this task.
You should do a "make a video about your dos PC" it'd be fun.
Likely $500-600 depending on options like the monitor, hard drive, case and power supply
I'm currently resurrecting an old 486 DX 33MHz machine, that's using a Tseng 1mb card, sound blaster 16 CT2290, and 8MB of 30-pin sodimm ram.
Thinking of swapping out the 486 DX 33 with am AM5x86 133MHz cpu, bump up the ram to 32MB, switch the SB 16 with an AWE32 CT2790, and grab an ATI Mach64 2MB card.
Only thing I had to do was to solder off an old, nearly leaking ni-cad battery. Had to clean the hell out of the area it was on, and test the leads with a prob...damn those ni-cads...
Thank goodness Clint ditched the VHS camera! The content was still solid, though.
The irony of this is, by the time I got my first usable computer in 1997 (the Tandy CoCo 2 I got in 1987 doesn’t count and was already quite obsolete even then), I was using it for internet access and late high school / early college work and not gaming. I have never been a PC gamer. I grew up on the Atari 2600, NES, and SNES.
So, I have no idea why I find this so interesting when I don't even have DOS games I remember playing.
There were two exceptions.
1) We briefly played the original _Sim City_ at school in my eighth-grade computer class as part of the curriculum. We didn’t spend much time on it, but I thought it was intriguing.
2) I briefly flirted with playing _Descent 2_ on my 1997 PC, but I never had time to really get into that one.
My mom was an elementary school teacher, and starting in 1994, she got to bring the Macintosh LC575 from her classroom home for the summer break. I loved using it to make art projects. I was never any good at real painting or drawing, but I could do that quite well. I wish I had spent more time later on investing in graphic design skills.
She had some silly educational games for young kids, but I was 14 at the beginning of that phase, so none of that interested me. I just liked to "paint." We never hooked that Mac up to the internet. I don’t remember if it even had a modem.
Should be, yeah. You'll just need to install some compatible DOS CD-ROM drivers and make sure the thing is set up to run them when needed (using good ol' MSCDEX or whatever).
MAN... I am so jealous. Love that red tower. I would love a rig that also has a 5.25 floppy in addition to the 3.5 and CD drive. My first PC ever was a 5150, later the family upgraded to an IBM PS/2 386 with Windows 3.1, my next machine was a Pentium II with a Voodoo 2 and Soundblaster. I miss them all :-(
DosBox has a great capture ability built in, yes. But my problem with it is the format of AVI it uses for some reason doesn't work properly with my editing program, Adobe Premiere CS4. Either the video doesn't show or the sound and video are corrupt. It's strange, though I haven't tried it with Win7 so maybe I'll have to try again.
Most anything made in the past 3 years should be just fine for MMO's. If you're looking to build one:
Core 2 Duo or Athlon/Phenom x2
256-512MB GeForce 8800 or equivalent ATI card
2GB RAM
Windows XPSP3 or 7
I've used a similar setup for years and it runs things fine, even Crysis is quite playable. The rest of the hardware is pretty much whatever you want.
$20, eBay. Granted, it was quite a few years ago.
DOSBox is an emulator. It's not 100% compatible or accurate as a real DOS PC. There is a selection of software that simply doesn't run at all. It's also a very "hands-off" experience, where you just simply plop some software into a mounted drive and go. Lots of us still prefer that classic feel of real disks, real hardware.
Disadvantages of a DOS PC are cost, physical space needed, and differing hardware specs needed. Like you have to use a real ET4000 card instead of just changing a parameter.
@LL1K Well, I found them on the internet mostly... forums like the Vintage Computer Forums, other TH-cam members, many on eBay, AtariAge users, but also local thrift stores, Craigslist and friends. Anywhere and everywhere really.
Very informative! I kept a few mobos from the old days and sold the large towers since I just didn't have the space to store them.
Man, those were the days. I still remember running out to buy a $300 SB Awe32 and spending $600 on 16MB of RAM! :P
@Nyocurio DOSBox is an emulator, and as such it has its problems inherent with emulation. Incompatibility, speed issues, imperfect video and sound emulation, etc. It's nice in a pinch, but it's not the same as a real DOS machine.
FreeDOS is just an OS, like DOS. It either needs to run under an emulator or on real hardware.
Bought a Pentium 1 Based Compaq Deskpro 2000 off eBay for $19. Was in need of a good cleanout and some extra screws here and there but it works fine and came with quite a bit of software!
@MasterGamerful Or literally any one of thousands of comparable clones! :D That's the thing with PCs... no need to list any brands because you don't really have to. A PC is a PC is a PC, for the most part.
@fortifythamind There were several, but most common for those 386-era machines was 30-pin SIMMs.
Let's see: collectors, hobbyists, enthusiasts, retro gamers, programmers, hardware tinkerers, reviewers like myself, people who are just plain curious about the old days, the list goes on. Considering the amount of email I constantly get regarding DOS, I'd say the number of people who still use it for fun is quite high. That's like asking "who uses old cars anymore?"... obviously, people who enjoy and love old cars use old cars. What a silly question.
I don't like the slowdown utilities on anything faster than a Pentium. They work fine for slowing things down when the PC is moderately faster than what you're trying to play. But when you start slowing it down 90%+ you get choppiness issues with many older games and post-Pentium II CPUs.
Installed it and I still get the same problems... I can capture through DosBox and then convert those ZMBV files to WMV or something that Premiere accepts. But it's annoying to do that when I can get the same or better quality through Camtasia.
I tried it with the DosBox installer like that as well as through a codecs package, and it still denied it. Premiere really, really sucks for video many formats as well as capturing from certain devices... Thanks for the help though
I like this intro for your videos, not the shorter one.
@Lachlant1984 I downgraded the CPU from 233Mhz to 120Mhz, installed a pure MS-DOS 6.22 OS, and installed an SB16 sound card. Just to make things nice and smooth for the vast majority.
A PC that slow is going to be pretty crap at x86 emulation for games like that. However, if you were to install Windows 95 or 98SE, you'll be able to play the games just fine natively.
I wish you could still buy a complete computer set for $150
Pretty cool, love vintage gaming stuff...
Dude I am loving the Sc3k music on your vids. Rock on!
I've just found a really awesome emulator called Boxer for the Mac, it's based on DOSBox 0.74 so theoretically it should run anything that DOSBox on its own will run, now the challenge is finding games I want to play, you've recommended GOG in the past but they don't have all the games I want, so it's a matter of finding good websites that have the games I want without screwing me over or ripping me off, I've already been bitten once.
@phreakindee Thanks for the answer! I simply installed dos 7.1 cd install ver, everything works fine, tested blood, duke3d, doom and all of them runs whitout problems. i only had problems with keen4, fucked ups colors, i thinks caused by the geforce 2 non detected well... Will check that soon.
Keep your videos up, you're an awesome guy! thanks again.
I know your whole theme is older computers but you should really do a review on the current computer you run windows 7 on. It would be interesting to see the specs you have for that one since you do play so many Sims 3 games and do reviews on them.
I need to either acquire or assemble a good DOS gaming PC sometime. I used to have a 486 box that worked great for DOS gaming, but it's in storage 4 hours away from my house, and I'm not even sure if the motherboard will still work because it had one of those barrel batteries on it and I wouldn't be surprised if it has burst by now.
what monitor should i use? I found an old laptop, which is a 390x thinkpad, installed mortal kombat ii and found the graphics to be quite pixelated. the native resolution I believe is 1024x768, that seems a bit high for older games, maybe it's the fact that it's not crt as well, but which is more the case for the pixelation? I'll be up(down)grading to a more proper retro machine in the future, so is the problem the high resolution or the fact that it is not a crt monitor? or both? also, subbed:)
Much love for the Packard Bell. My first PC was a Packard Bell with a 486SX25 and 4 glorious MB of RAM. No idea what video card came with it other than it approximated a Sound Blaster Pro with... some degree of accuracy.
I have a crush on the 486 generation. There are some fine processors, which came out at the end of this era around 1995. For example, i got an AMD X5-133 overclocked to 160MHz. Best 486 cpu i ever had. Coupled with a Matrox Millenium and a SB AWE32. Good DOS Machine. Playing like back in the days ! I also had a Pentium III for DOS games, but for me it just had to be a machine from a time, when DOS was really present and used.
Also built a 386 for late 80s and early 90s games.
LGR,
What's your preference on graphics/screen types for dos and win 95 games? I heard "stay away" from SVGA and the dtsn (I think I spelled that right) as they can have ghosting and trailing movement on scrolling dos games. I recently bought a Pentium II I'm going to use for dos games. One reason I chose it was it's TFT display. Thanks and your channel rocks. Keep up the good work!
I got an old industrial PC from my Company, a Pentium MMX. It´s really amazing and pretty rare i guess. It has not a common mainboard. It has a PICMG board.
CPU and RAM are on a full size CPU card. I´ve never seen anything like this before :)
Just turned it into a DOS game machine. Also added a Soundblaster 16 and a Voodoo card :)
Im very happy with that thing.
A couple of suggestions for your viewers: build it yourself (most folks here probably build their own or can build their own anyway) and the other option is a single-board PC, that is, an entire PC on a single ISA or PCI card. They're plentiful, and you can find lots of low-end SBPCs on ebay.
Don't know if you still check this video anymore, but your thoughts on the setup I'm working on at the moment? 486 DX4-100, 32MB RAM, SoundBlaster AWE64 Value, S3 Trio, on a Shuttle 433 PCI/ISA hybrid board. It seems to be between the second and third classes you mention there. I'm in my mid 20s and am mostly wanting to play games from around 1990 to 1998 ish, with a heavy emphasis on Epic and Apogee titles. Do you think its a good setup for that?
I remember that HP Vectra machine, my step father had one at his work and also former neighbours had one too. In what way did you modify the computer to run DOS games?
What's the one at 4:03 ? I'm interested in getting one.
@jp71268 It's one I built. I guess we can call him Bob F. Wiegelson.
God bless LGR and all his work in uncovering the history of home computers! God bless Techmoan and 8-Bit Guy as well, among many others. However, for 99% of us who haven't got the funds or engineering/ tech ability to acquire and keep these behemoths running, or the necessary software, isn't asking the question "which MS-DOS computer should I buy?" rather like asking "Which Model T Ford should I buy"?
I am buying a GCW-Zero and that thing plays everything perfectly. But I can't help but learn more about these old computers :)
I agree with this, I got 2 pre-built 486 pcs for $50 each. Just upgraded one to am5x86, the other is a small Unisys Cwd4002 which is nice and portable but no cd drive can be added to it. I got around this buy using a parallel zip drive instead to get large files onto it, though I considered getting a ide to compact flash adapter to replace the hdd with a bootable cf.
Hah, I used to have one of those HP vectra computers but min was a 166mhz Pentium MMX with 16MB (or was it 32) RAM. Great video!
Except that they don't run on "true DOS" and you'll run into a lot of problems that running, say, DOS 6.22 won't. It will do for many mid-90's games just fine, but for anything older than about 1994, you'll want real DOS in order to get around a lot of headaches.
@garrysmoder1 Sounds pretty sweet to me!
Ahh yeah, the memories. I remember when i got my first own PC, it was in 2000 and i was in fifth grade. Someday my dad came from work and brought me one of the very old 486's they got rid of and asked me if want it. i Loved it, later got me some old Dos Handbooks, expanded the ram to 4Mb , installed an 500 mb Hard Disk and an 4xspeed CD drive to play Simon the Sourcerer,Doom, Indy and Settlers.
I agree. DOSBox is a very cheap alternative, and it usually comes bundled with all games that are on GOG that are needing of it. Personally, id still like to use a system with Win95 or 98SE with at least a PIII 500 and 128-256MB RAM to play the classic windows games as such. For the older DOS games, I feel that a 486DX4 100Mhz with 8MB RAM on DOS 6 does the trick too, even with the slowdown software. Unfortunately, I had to donate those computers due to space constraints. To each gamer his own.
Yes, it would be easier.
But continuing with Phreakindee's car analogy.
It's easier to drive a Honda Civic than an old Ferrari, but it's a hell of a lot less fun.
It might be a good way to do it if you don't want to spend much on it and you want it to be easy to use, but for the proper retro experience you NEED a DOS PC.
I wish I had one :)
First of all, GREAT video because I'd like to get PC for DOS gaming! But if you get one with Windows '95 already installed-and I would think it would be hard not to-can you still run DOS games on it, and if so, how?
I remember an ad from that HP Vectra.... It even had music-compising software..
That was aound 1995
Nice, Pink Floyd 'Wish You Were Here' poster. Good choice in a band.
hey lgr, can you do a review of dungeon siege with or without legends of arrana? i really like the game, and i love hearing your humor.
Old computers scare me lol... I've always been afriad that damn monitor will crush my fucking legs..
Lol
Go hard core
Very delayed reply: I had two 21" CRTs (a bit over 30kg each) on the 'desk' I had as a teenager, a 3/4" chipboard sheet from the top of an early-'90s big-box-store office desk supported by some old hardwood shelves on one side and an upended HP server chassis on the other. Still have my lower legs.
Val 'Fuzzy' Plushroom
Luxury! We had it tough!
Ahh old school TH-cam ❤️
My dad use to play DOS games in the early to about 1995 games on his i think 386 computer. Had a bad ass sound card in it. These days i play older games through DOS Box.
I like the Tseng Labs ET4000 graphics cards as well.
One thing that I've found was my framerates for DOS games were better on my fast 133 Mhz 486 and early Pentium (75 Mhz) systems when I increased my RAM from 16 megabytes to above 24 megabytes to 32 megabytes.I know it seems strange but the framerates were increased in many games (almost doubled).
One of my favorite DOS PC's was a slimline AST Advantage and also a slimline Dell Optiplex desktop.
nice vid, but I wish you showed some internal shots of the different systems ;)
Four words: EMULATION'S NOT THE SAME
i think a PCI machine does the trick. even 486. but with pci you could use USB cards. they come in handy for many purposes.
for what i prefer more is a PS2 mouse port as the old ballmice are hard to get and often dirty. you really want an optical mouse, believe me!
btw. check for pentiums up to 233 MMX. you can disable the caches video/bios/cpu for slowdown. don't use the slowdown TSRs as they're jerky for smooth gameplay.
Hey, awesome video and channel! Can you use modern CD-ROM drives with the old computers? I would hate to have to use my CREATIVE LABS 2x that I used back in the day- it took 7 mins to load Wing Commander, and it took me only 30 seconds to die!
I hodgepodged a DOS Pc together.I had a nice little XP system,big HDD, limited everything else.Got it for free when a friend upgraded to vista.I pulled the HDD from it when my main system died that I was running the win7beta7k on.The XP pc's built in graphics couldn't support7,but it had2gb of RAM,the one that could support 7 graphically had 512mb of RAM, I was at quite a quandary.7 is very efficacy thou, and could run well on 512. So I put DOS 6.0 on xp's,and have dos running on 2 gb of RAM :)
Very interesting video. thanks dude!
I got a USB floppy drive and mounted it in DOSBox so I still use 3,5'' floppy disks for my modern PC in DOSBox. It just feels so much better than just downloading the games.