I would love for a super-geek episode where y’all go over the different foams and technology available now and how they help/hurt/ don’t do anything in the trail running space. There’s so much and not a lot of cohesive information on all of it in one place especially for trails
That would be a super fun conversation! I guess it would be very opinionated, as there isn't much public studies or data showing how effective many of these foams are on trail, but it would make for great banter for sure!
You guys should review the inov-8 Trailfly G 270 V2 for the zero drop people. The shoe is incredibly durable and awesome to run in. I would say the only problems are the tongue takes 50 miles to break in or could use some more padding and the midsole could possibly use a mm or two more cushioning. Thanks for the great reviews.
Sounds like you did the review for us already 😉. Appreciate the recommendation! Inov8 is one of the last brands that hasn't been reviewed yet, so we'll definitely have to check them out!
Good review guys. Carbitex Monoflex is formerly known as AFX (asymmetrical flex) plate. Their new names are as follows: AFX (asymmetrical flex) became Monoflex, DFX (Dynamic flex) became Gearflex. Lightstrike Pro and EGO Pro are EXTREMELY comparable.
I really hope to see a 4mm version of this shoe some point down the line. I loved this shoe, but zero drop is still a bit iffy for me. With that being said, I'm definitely going to continue running in this one.
Thanks for watching! I definitely watch a fair number of reviews for products I have no interest in buying as well. We've got a few shoes on deck before the Timp 5, but definitely would love to give that shoe a try this year
Great review, not really a shoe for me, but I love to learn about gear so it's nice to hear what you have to say. Can't wait for the Tomir 2.0 review! :D
I got my shoes resoled at the Vibram stand at a UTMB race(for free)... had 700km on them and have run another 300km since then.... got the litebase megagrip sole similar to the sole of the tomir, they are great! Had no problems, as long as the midsole is good it works like a new pair of shoes👍
Yeah i was really happy! One could register the shoes beforehand as a test person then bring them to the Vibram truck (a fully equipped resoling station)on the race weekend... they then send a mail when they where finished, which was the next day. The shoes were first examined to see if the midsole and uppers were still up to it. I got them back with a card showing the new weight and a Vibram buff.... all for free...it only cost me filling out an online questionnaire.
Super cool! Maybe pop up shop re-soling stations at races and events would be a good way to create more awareness for things like this. What came to mind for me isn't so much re-soling an old trail shoe, but making some frankenshoes and putting some trail outsoles on some of my favorite road shoes 😆
Glad the lugs got a bit of a boost. I had 2 pairs of the BOA and by the time I retired them, the litebase was totally worn down. Granted, the foam was pretty much shot at that time anyways, but for a premium shoe I want it to last as long as possible. I'd love to cop a pair of these with the plates but can't justify that price point...
Yeah it's hard to say whether you are going to get $60 dollars more wear out of these than the BOA. They will definitely last longer, but I agree, it's hard to justify the $60 bump in price.
My original - bright pink - Mont Blancs have only just been retired after 1300km - some lugs on forefoot flat and tears in the upper appearing. I have moved onto a new V1 pair in the dark blue…and bizarrely they don’t feel anywhere near as bouncy - Terrific review guys, Informative and enjoyable. I personally won’t be buying the MB Carbons, not until they discount
That's interesting! I wonder if there was some sort of unannounced material switch. There have been shoes in the past where the dyes in the foam change the properties a bit. Usually not enough to notice, but in your case running so many miles in them, you would probably notice that. Thanks for watching!
Interested in the Altra Wild Trail, especially comparing it to some other shoes like the Mafata Speed 4. Also noticed some people wearing Craft shoes like Manu Vilaseca at the Cocodona 250. Arlen Glick wore the Craft Xplor and finished 3rd. There's not much info on this shoe online so it would be nice to have a review of that one as well. Personally not interested in Carbon plated shoes for trail.
We're hoping to review the Craft Xplor soon. It's mega comfortable, and while it has a super flimsy upper, I bet at 250 mile pace it doesn't matter because the pace is so much slower. Comfort is key for something like that and the Xplor is very comfortable. Thanks for watching!
What do you think of the saucony endorphin edge at 80 dollars brand new vs the altra carbon racer for technical trail with 4000 feet elevation gain 20 mile race?
It's hard to justify the price of this shoe, but if we're talking purely one shoe vs the other, I would prefer this Mont Blanc Carbon on a technical 20mi couse over the Endorphin Edge. The Edge is a fun shoe, but it's a bit sketchy on technical terrain due to how responsive and stiff it is. Also hard to pass up a deal like that though for 80 dollars 😂
That's about the amount of space I prefer in my trail shoes. it's largely a personal preference, but most of the manufacturers make the shoes with the assumption that you will have some space in the front
100% guarantee that Brett's ankle doesn't get on with the prodigio. looking forward to that review. I think its a great shoe but I know others have issues
I recently got the Prodigio and had worries about the heel cup, based on reviews. From day 1, I've had zero issues and totally love the shoe. But La Sportiva has always fit me really well, once I get the sizing right. I'm a US 9.5 and in the Prodigio the 43 fits really well, in other La Sportiva I'm usually a 43.5
I really hope you're wrong, but just trying it on and wearing it around the house, I'm super nervous for it as well. Might have to wear some mega thick socks around the ankle. haha
@@ConversationalPace I found the plastic bit round the top eyelets a bit spicy on the first run but it soon broke in. Ran UTS 50k in them at the weekend and they performed great. Loads of grip on the rocks and grass where I saw many with hokas slipping about. And plenty of cushion for me. The foam is much less firm than all the other la sportiva shoes I tried. But still probably not as cushioned as you're used to.
The heel cup is better than the original, but even with runners knot I still get heel slippage. I"m disappointed with that and the tongue. The carbon plating has an intersting feel. My first run caused cramping in my foot until I figured out how to relax my foot to allow the shoe to "work" (not certain how better to describe it). I find the shoe overall comfy but I'm just not as happy with it as I was hoping. It's alsmost too comfy.
Thanks for your feedback! Yeah, I agree the heel and tongue can still be improved. I also had a bit of a learning period for carbon shoes and letting it do more of the work and to relax my foot. Being almost too comfy is the same point that Finn made up in that he felt that he almost lost his racing 'edge' with it
My mont blanc boas also had some durability issues, but so far this mont blanc carbon has been significantly better and doesn't have any premature durability issues or concerns at all currently
Yeah definitely a pretty strong chemical smell out of the box. It took probably 4 or 5 runs for them to start smelling like feet instead of chemicals. Not sure if that is a pro or con. lol
I heard Jeff Browning’s post Cocodona 250 and he started off in these but did most of the race in the fwd experience wilds. Are Altra athletes done with 0 drop? 😂
I bet the 4mm drop was a nice change up for the ankle after that much time on feet. Especially too since the section after Sedona is flatter and more runnable. I bet their athletes won't be completely done with 0 drop, but it will just be really nice to have some options!
Worth the $$$$ more than Nike because my toes do not work with Nike- I hate Nike. Adidas kills my arches- too much structure? I truly don’t know how you guys can run in sooooo many different shoes without injury. Love love zero drop. Years of hip & knee pain resolved with zero drop.
Hah I wonder if I've just run in so many different shoes at this point, my body has gotten really good at making little adjustments. I will say, I can definitely tell if I wore some shoes for much longer than our typical 100 mile testing period, I'd run into problems.
I must be the one trail runner out there who LOVES the heel cup section of this particular shoe. The rest of the shoe is kind of trash for what they're asking for it, but it fits my foot like a glove. That said, I will never buy them again for that price tag...
Yeah that price though😭😭😭. I do really like the fit of this shoe as well. I don't love the heel cup, but it totally gets a passing grade for me. I really think that for 180-200, Altra would have had smaller margins, but would have sold so many more pairs of this shoe that they would have ended up making more.
It feels like Altra just keeps getting in their own way. I tried on the Mont Blanc Carbon this past week and my first thought was "They want $260 for this and it still has the heel lock issue?" The upper just felt generally pretty bad to me for how much they want for this shoe. I am also just not sold on carbon fiber for the trail yet.
Yeah it's not like they don't make any shoes with good heel cups! Just take one of those and put it in this one. I agree $260 is too steep for this shoe. I didn't have any slippage problems and ended up really liking this upper, but all in all, I think this is a $180-200 shoe
I've been pursuing a resole of Salomon S/lab ultras with Vibram rubber. (Contra Grip is absolutely terrible). Buy a batch of Salomon's that fit great and shipping them off for a resole job. With the Altra Mont Blanc reaching $260, resoling a brand new Salmon S/Lab shoe ($190) is starting to look reasonable on paper. I know others out there are also not fans of Contra Grip, but like the Salomon fit, so maybe there's a market for resoling just Salomon's with Vibram rubber and doing it mail order only.
260$ is idiotic (how they can charge more than Adidas for agravic speed ultra) and if the durability is same as in the previous MB, you basically paying 1$ per mile (or even kilometer), lol
I agree, it's too much money. Maybe if I could guarantee 700 quality miles, but I just don't see that happening. I bet 400 miles will have my pair pretty beat up. I'd bet a lot of money my Agravic Speed Ultra will last quite a bit longer
It's expensive, but I find it really hard to find shoes that fit my wide feet to be able to do 200+ milers, so "if" it fits my toes then it is worth the high price for the comfort in long races, but I have a few shoes that I can use and rotate for training runs where the distance is short enough to not shred my feet. I just ordered a pair of these because I liked the original except it wasn't stable on tech terrain, am hoping this will be better...
I do hope that we are on our way towards significantly more durable midsole compounds. Nnormal's concept with the modular and replaceable midsole allows for resoling to be a more realistic possibility. For the most of these shoe brands though, I think you're right that they'll all be one and done products
I would love for a super-geek episode where y’all go over the different foams and technology available now and how they help/hurt/ don’t do anything in the trail running space. There’s so much and not a lot of cohesive information on all of it in one place especially for trails
That would be a super fun conversation! I guess it would be very opinionated, as there isn't much public studies or data showing how effective many of these foams are on trail, but it would make for great banter for sure!
You guys should review the inov-8 Trailfly G 270 V2 for the zero drop people. The shoe is incredibly durable and awesome to run in. I would say the only problems are the tongue takes 50 miles to break in or could use some more padding and the midsole could possibly use a mm or two more cushioning. Thanks for the great reviews.
Sounds like you did the review for us already 😉. Appreciate the recommendation! Inov8 is one of the last brands that hasn't been reviewed yet, so we'll definitely have to check them out!
Good review guys. Carbitex Monoflex is formerly known as AFX (asymmetrical flex) plate. Their new names are as follows: AFX (asymmetrical flex) became Monoflex, DFX (Dynamic flex) became Gearflex. Lightstrike Pro and EGO Pro are EXTREMELY comparable.
I really hope to see a 4mm version of this shoe some point down the line. I loved this shoe, but zero drop is still a bit iffy for me. With that being said, I'm definitely going to continue running in this one.
Even if not interested in the shoe listen to you guys for the banter and comical references.
hoping you might review altra timp 5
Thanks for watching! I definitely watch a fair number of reviews for products I have no interest in buying as well. We've got a few shoes on deck before the Timp 5, but definitely would love to give that shoe a try this year
Great review, not really a shoe for me, but I love to learn about gear so it's nice to hear what you have to say. Can't wait for the Tomir 2.0 review! :D
Thanks for watching! Tomir 2.0 review coming soon!
I got my shoes resoled at the Vibram stand at a UTMB race(for free)... had 700km on them and have run another 300km since then.... got the litebase megagrip sole similar to the sole of the tomir, they are great! Had no problems, as long as the midsole is good it works like a new pair of shoes👍
That's so awesome they were doing that! I think that Tomir outsole pattern is one of the most universal outsoles out there right now.
Yeah i was really happy! One could register the shoes beforehand as a test person then bring them to the Vibram truck (a fully equipped resoling station)on the race weekend... they then send a mail when they where finished, which was the next day. The shoes were first examined to see if the midsole and uppers were still up to it. I got them back with a card showing the new weight and a Vibram buff.... all for free...it only cost me filling out an online questionnaire.
Super cool! Maybe pop up shop re-soling stations at races and events would be a good way to create more awareness for things like this. What came to mind for me isn't so much re-soling an old trail shoe, but making some frankenshoes and putting some trail outsoles on some of my favorite road shoes 😆
Great video! Would love to see a follow up video if you guys do a race in this shoe.
Will do! Not sure what is up next for either of us regarding racing, but we'll do more race recap videos for sure.
Congrats Finn!!! 🎉
Cocodona recap episode coming soon!
Not at all what's important here however what sunglasses are you wearing? Congrats on your race. I really enjoyed this video!
Sunglasses? For which race are you referring to?
Was fun rooting for ya at Cocodona! Another good review
Finn is such a baller! Cocodona recap episode coming out soon, too!
Glad the lugs got a bit of a boost. I had 2 pairs of the BOA and by the time I retired them, the litebase was totally worn down. Granted, the foam was pretty much shot at that time anyways, but for a premium shoe I want it to last as long as possible.
I'd love to cop a pair of these with the plates but can't justify that price point...
Yeah it's hard to say whether you are going to get $60 dollars more wear out of these than the BOA. They will definitely last longer, but I agree, it's hard to justify the $60 bump in price.
My original - bright pink - Mont Blancs have only just been retired after 1300km - some lugs on forefoot flat and tears in the upper appearing. I have moved onto a new V1 pair in the dark blue…and bizarrely they don’t feel anywhere near as bouncy - Terrific review guys, Informative and enjoyable. I personally won’t be buying the MB Carbons, not until they discount
That's interesting! I wonder if there was some sort of unannounced material switch. There have been shoes in the past where the dyes in the foam change the properties a bit. Usually not enough to notice, but in your case running so many miles in them, you would probably notice that. Thanks for watching!
if only it had a 4 to 6mm drop.. It would be my perfect can do all shoe..
I know it would be called Topo then but still..
Awesome review again, gents.
Doesn't take long to get from 4mm drop to 0mm drop.... I use shoes with 0mm, 4mm and 5mm drops and rotate them.
@@trailsandbeers I got them on my list for when the price drops. I have the Mont Blanc BOA which i like for hikin but not for running
Interested in the Altra Wild Trail, especially comparing it to some other shoes like the Mafata Speed 4. Also noticed some people wearing Craft shoes like Manu Vilaseca at the Cocodona 250. Arlen Glick wore the Craft Xplor and finished 3rd. There's not much info on this shoe online so it would be nice to have a review of that one as well. Personally not interested in Carbon plated shoes for trail.
We're hoping to review the Craft Xplor soon. It's mega comfortable, and while it has a super flimsy upper, I bet at 250 mile pace it doesn't matter because the pace is so much slower. Comfort is key for something like that and the Xplor is very comfortable. Thanks for watching!
@@ConversationalPace Hmm interesting.
Congrats Finn! 🐼
Cocodona recap episode coming soon!
@@ConversationalPace woot woot!
We need Christmas ornaments and pipe cleaners merch
CP pipe cleaner ornaments coming to a christmas tree near you!
What do you think of the saucony endorphin edge at 80 dollars brand new vs the altra carbon racer for technical trail with 4000 feet elevation gain 20 mile race?
It's hard to justify the price of this shoe, but if we're talking purely one shoe vs the other, I would prefer this Mont Blanc Carbon on a technical 20mi couse over the Endorphin Edge. The Edge is a fun shoe, but it's a bit sketchy on technical terrain due to how responsive and stiff it is. Also hard to pass up a deal like that though for 80 dollars 😂
That's about the amount of space I prefer in my trail shoes. it's largely a personal preference, but most of the manufacturers make the shoes with the assumption that you will have some space in the front
Tecton X 3 @ $275 review will require referencing this video
yeah I'm so curious how Hoka is going to try and justify that price point. Full review on that one for sure when we are able to get it in!
Just had my MB Boa's resoled with Vibram Peak District soles
Had to look that up to see what the pattern was like, and it looks pretty aggressive! How do you like it, and how much did it cost to do that?
Approx 70 bucks… grip is insane. Perfect for UK winter mud
No reviews for the Merrell Peak Agility 5? It has a rock plate.
Haven't been able to get pairs of the AP5 into the studio yet. Hopefully soon!
100% guarantee that Brett's ankle doesn't get on with the prodigio.
looking forward to that review. I think its a great shoe but I know others have issues
I recently got the Prodigio and had worries about the heel cup, based on reviews. From day 1, I've had zero issues and totally love the shoe. But La Sportiva has always fit me really well, once I get the sizing right. I'm a US 9.5 and in the Prodigio the 43 fits really well, in other La Sportiva I'm usually a 43.5
I really hope you're wrong, but just trying it on and wearing it around the house, I'm super nervous for it as well. Might have to wear some mega thick socks around the ankle. haha
@@ConversationalPace I found the plastic bit round the top eyelets a bit spicy on the first run but it soon broke in. Ran UTS 50k in them at the weekend and they performed great. Loads of grip on the rocks and grass where I saw many with hokas slipping about. And plenty of cushion for me. The foam is much less firm than all the other la sportiva shoes I tried. But still probably not as cushioned as you're used to.
I actually got 450miles on the v1, but the outsole was useless around 200. They just became a recovery day shoe.
This outsole should provide a bit more durability as the lugs got larger and there's a bit more surface area touching the ground.
The heel cup is better than the original, but even with runners knot I still get heel slippage. I"m disappointed with that and the tongue. The carbon plating has an intersting feel. My first run caused cramping in my foot until I figured out how to relax my foot to allow the shoe to "work" (not certain how better to describe it). I find the shoe overall comfy but I'm just not as happy with it as I was hoping. It's alsmost too comfy.
Thanks for your feedback! Yeah, I agree the heel and tongue can still be improved. I also had a bit of a learning period for carbon shoes and letting it do more of the work and to relax my foot. Being almost too comfy is the same point that Finn made up in that he felt that he almost lost his racing 'edge' with it
Tried the non-carbon Mont Blancs a few years ago and they fell apart after 2 weeks of light to medium duty running. Pretty ridiculous…
To be fair that is a completely different shoe. I also have that version but luckily never had issues with the quality.
My mont blanc boas also had some durability issues, but so far this mont blanc carbon has been significantly better and doesn't have any premature durability issues or concerns at all currently
You can tell when Finn thinks something is complete bs.
Did yours smell funky out the box like antiseptic?
Yeah definitely a pretty strong chemical smell out of the box. It took probably 4 or 5 runs for them to start smelling like feet instead of chemicals. Not sure if that is a pro or con. lol
Strange… sounds like they’re all like that 😂
Maybe Altra started using a new glue that's got more smell but actually keeps the shoes together 😭 🤣
Depth is not deep but if you struggle with Achilles tendon inflammation it helps.
I heard Jeff Browning’s post Cocodona 250 and he started off in these but did most of the race in the fwd experience wilds. Are Altra athletes done with 0 drop? 😂
Lots of rumors that Altra pro’s add heel inserts
I bet the 4mm drop was a nice change up for the ankle after that much time on feet. Especially too since the section after Sedona is flatter and more runnable. I bet their athletes won't be completely done with 0 drop, but it will just be really nice to have some options!
Worth the $$$$ more than Nike because my toes do not work with Nike- I hate Nike. Adidas kills my arches- too much structure? I truly don’t know how you guys can run in sooooo many different shoes without injury. Love love zero drop. Years of hip & knee pain resolved with zero drop.
Hah I wonder if I've just run in so many different shoes at this point, my body has gotten really good at making little adjustments. I will say, I can definitely tell if I wore some shoes for much longer than our typical 100 mile testing period, I'd run into problems.
Congratulations on Cocodona!
Cocodona recap episode coming soon!
Nnormal has partners that resole your tomir and kjerag if I am not mistaken.
They do and are working on growing that network. Love to see it!
I must be the one trail runner out there who LOVES the heel cup section of this particular shoe. The rest of the shoe is kind of trash for what they're asking for it, but it fits my foot like a glove. That said, I will never buy them again for that price tag...
Yeah that price though😭😭😭. I do really like the fit of this shoe as well. I don't love the heel cup, but it totally gets a passing grade for me. I really think that for 180-200, Altra would have had smaller margins, but would have sold so many more pairs of this shoe that they would have ended up making more.
It feels like Altra just keeps getting in their own way. I tried on the Mont Blanc Carbon this past week and my first thought was "They want $260 for this and it still has the heel lock issue?" The upper just felt generally pretty bad to me for how much they want for this shoe. I am also just not sold on carbon fiber for the trail yet.
Yeah it's not like they don't make any shoes with good heel cups! Just take one of those and put it in this one. I agree $260 is too steep for this shoe. I didn't have any slippage problems and ended up really liking this upper, but all in all, I think this is a $180-200 shoe
“I’m not a peg-legged pirate”, then why do you say “Aaaargh ye matey” all the time? Answer me that!
Perhaps all the Aaarghs are being confused with my injury pains 🤣
I've been pursuing a resole of Salomon S/lab ultras with Vibram rubber. (Contra Grip is absolutely terrible). Buy a batch of Salomon's that fit great and shipping them off for a resole job. With the Altra Mont Blanc reaching $260, resoling a brand new Salmon S/Lab shoe ($190) is starting to look reasonable on paper. I know others out there are also not fans of Contra Grip, but like the Salomon fit, so maybe there's a market for resoling just Salomon's with Vibram rubber and doing it mail order only.
260$ is idiotic (how they can charge more than Adidas for agravic speed ultra) and if the durability is same as in the previous MB, you basically paying 1$ per mile (or even kilometer), lol
I agree, it's too much money. Maybe if I could guarantee 700 quality miles, but I just don't see that happening. I bet 400 miles will have my pair pretty beat up. I'd bet a lot of money my Agravic Speed Ultra will last quite a bit longer
It's expensive, but I find it really hard to find shoes that fit my wide feet to be able to do 200+ milers, so "if" it fits my toes then it is worth the high price for the comfort in long races, but I have a few shoes that I can use and rotate for training runs where the distance is short enough to not shred my feet. I just ordered a pair of these because I liked the original except it wasn't stable on tech terrain, am hoping this will be better...
Hoping this one works better for you! I thought it was a big level up for stability and comfort 🤞
resoling is completely senseless, bc by the point the lugs are off the midsole is banged up too. Sadly running shoes are products to throw away.
I do hope that we are on our way towards significantly more durable midsole compounds. Nnormal's concept with the modular and replaceable midsole allows for resoling to be a more realistic possibility. For the most of these shoe brands though, I think you're right that they'll all be one and done products
Can still use it for training runs after a resole. But I also wouldn't bother.