I have brewed the coffee in Vietnam with the locals, and I can assure you that the amount three TABLESPOONS is the original recipe. I might add that I’m a Finn, and we drink a lot of coffee, the most per capita in the world and also quite strong coffee, specially in terms of the amount of caffeine the drink contains. That means I, as so many other Finns (and Scandinavians) like strong coffee. The Vietnamese do too. Their coffee is short and strong while according to my experience the Americans like their coffee very mild and long. You are right about the temperature. It’s crucial if the flow time is long. That’s why you get surprisingly smooth coffee from espresso machines that use hot water. They press hot water quickly through the powder, which has only enough time to release the very light organic aromas and oils from the powder leaving the bitter tasting acids bound to the powder. Reason being that the bitter compounds are bigger molecules and require more time / heat to be released. So, next time, in order to experience the REAL Vietnamese coffee moment, use the TABLEspoons, just as instructed. If you’re afraid of caffeine, that’s still needless. You get more caffeine by drinking one Red Bull can. Keep up the good work!
I dont put coffee grounds in the sink but some how at my moms it's the dish soap/tiny amounts of oil/other debris that becomes jello that clogs up the pipes but luckily for me I can take the pipes apart myself and pressure wash the system. disgusting. asian people problem. so that's my reason i dont put coffee grounds in the sink
I love my Vietnamese coffee filter. I use it at work and it's not bitter, like you said. I was getting a few grounds in the bottom so I cut out circular filters from regular filters. There is an added bonus to this; paper filtered coffee is lower in LDL cholesterol!
Another teeny detail about the cone, I've read a number of times that you'll get better results using a kettle to pour water in a circular motion around the outer perimeter of the cone. This leaves the grinds sitting flat at the end, rather than laying along the edges of the cone (that's how you know you did it right, they say). This is said to render a cup of coffee that is less bitter. I haven't tried it myself yet, but many a coffee snob swears it's worth the effort. Who would have thought coffee could be so complicated?
On another note, thank you so much for making this video. With coffee and coffee roasting becoming such a growing phenomenon, it's disappointing to see so many coffee aficionados overlook the phin preparation and Vietnam's contribution to the global coffee community. After all, Vietnam is the world's 2nd largest source of coffee beans, and the world's FIRST largest source of robusta coffee beans.
Given that the flat filter drip pretty quick compare to how i usually do my coffee, i doubt it was enough coffe to use the vn filter. If there's not enough coffe, the plate would not b as tight and it would give a less concentrated result. With that amount, a smaller sized filter would give better result.
It's been my experience that if you use good quality coffee, the only reason it is bitter is due to over extraction. You may need a coarser grind for that brewing method to slow down the extraction process. You may also need to adjust the amount of water you're using, or possibly the temperature. Otherwise good video!
Writing this as I am brewing with the Cone. My coffee making methods have improved a lot since the posting of this video. Thanks for your suggestions and constructive feedback. The cone is much easier to empty in the bin.
The flat steel plate filter system (Vietnamese or Indian) produces a better cup for me than the permanent filter or a pour over paper filter. The oils being extracted thorougly through the slick between the 2 plates must be a big part of it. And even an Espresso grind leaves little mud if blooming time is long enough.
@@DrJamesT Agreed. Having compared different blends and roasts over the last 3 months using permanent cone filters and a paper pour over against the Vietnamese type, I consistently experienced the same results you describe, particularly the bitterness. I'm no expert, but my tastebuds refused to support the other options which I used for years.
Today I used the cone filter. Easy to use / clean and coffee was great. Just put cone on my mug and pour in the hot water . Coffee was from Gail's , decaf grinded 😊
There's so many variables that control the experience of coffee that's not related to the filtering. I focus on finding the easiest method to use and clean first. Then tweak with coffee grounds.
Dude, don't dump the coffee grinds down the drain, you'll mess up your pipes. Tap the filters upside down over the trash, then rinse it out over a fine mesh hand sized strainer to catch the excess granules. Then tap what's in the strainer in the trash. Vietnamese brewed coffee is okay, but I still prefer my French press. Number 2 is vacuum/siphon, 3 is Vietnamese, 4 stovetop glass percolation, and everything else is swill. lol I haven't tried pour over yet, despite having the equipment to make it. lol
DrJames Just tried pour over coffee recently. It is delicious! (I bloomed twice, and used an unbleached, pre-moistened paper filter prior to putting the grinds in) Problem is it takes too long to make and you can't just go off and do something else if you're making more than one cup. Next experience, making espresso on the stove top!
DrJames They add so much sugar because the coffee they use is very bitter. Maybe its cheap, I don't know. I hear some people say Cafe du Monde tastes similar. I've never had that, though. Usually, in Asian cultures, bitterness is considered a medicinal property, so I'm thinking that's why they like it? Bitter melon is the worst thing ever, btw. My Asian MIL likes it though, yuck. Tastes like bile to me.
@@Anacaona4 what lies. vietnam makes some of the best coffee beans. the "cafe du monde" brand is non existent in vietnam, that's an american invention. and they don't add fillers or garbage in the coffee. and this coffee with condensed milk is not the main drink they have. they certainly don't brew it bitter.
@@DrJamesT I already ordered online, Batangas Barako coffee and Batangas Arabica coffee(just local and no brand). I am new to all this. Using 3 in 1 coffee all my life.
Should be using a gooseneck kettle with the conical pour over and pouring in a methodical circular swirl. You control the water and bloom it this way first and the coffee isn’t bitter that way at all. Actually, Vietnamese coffee is more bitter but both are good. And 3 TBS is the standard measurement for an 8 oz cup .. informative video overall
Should've dumped out that coffee from the blooming under the conical filter before the 2nd pour because it's very bitter and spoils the cup. I noticed there was no coffee under the phin filter after blooming. So you can't know from this experiment for sure if the conical filter really delivered more bitter coffee than the phin filter.
Caffeine on its own tastes bitter, alkaline, and slightly soapy. It's also very water soluble. The first pour would have the highest concentration of caffeine so the bitterness does make sense. What you're saying sounds inconsistent. I kept everything the same by not pouring anything out. Like for like. Minimizing variables.
Great blog! Maybe I find Vietnamise coffee filter. Did not know All Viet. Coffee was dark roast! How cool is that! I partial to Fre ch roast or Italian roast so Vietnamise might like? Thanks again Dr.
amzn.to/3XIIAMH , if you don't mind waiting for a month to ship from China search Aliexpress for "Reusable Double Layer 304 Stainless Steel Coffee Filter Holder Pour Over Coffees Dripper Mesh Coffee Tea Filter Basket Tools"
hoa tran I agree if I want to make a strong brew. It could be so strong that I couldn’t tell the difference. I purposely use a smaller amount to tease out the subtle differences. Btw this is just a sample size.
@@DrJamesT It's not about a strong brew. It's about the flavour. If you want a weak good tasting coffee then you use less or arabica. Vietnamese coffee is mostly robusta but they have a good amount of arabica as well. It usually takes ~7 to 10mins for a 7cm coffee phin to drop out a good tasting coffee. It depends on the size of the grains and if you have a vacuum seal/osmotic pressure etc etc. Some times the pressure of the air and water won't let the coffee drip and lifting the cup part will break the pressure and make it start dripping.
I have the stainless steel cone pour-over coffee dripper and I love it but after making my first of 3 - ½ - ¾ cups of coffee, the dripper starts dripping very slow, if at all. I have to push up the coffee grinds to get it to start dripping again. When I fill the dripper up with water it drips through but when it gets halfway down, it slows down or stops. I use 3 tablespoons of coffee grinds. I clean both sides with hot water. Any ideas?
Lol not a really good test since you didn’t measure the coffee grounds. You kinda just put “3” teaspoons of coffee grounds. You should have weighed the grounds for a more accurate test
Based on this experience, taste can be adjusted in either device to match each other. The most important factor is cleaning it. I use the one that take less time. The cone is my daily go to. I use 1 tablespoon.
@@skilletpan5674 yep, we’re gotta put a touch of rapid boil water around the PHIN (vnmese word for our dripper) to heat up the metal, then put the coffee in and press with the presser, pour boiling water in just a touch and let the coffee absords and expand. Now we pour it in full and again boiling water. With the expansion of the coffee ground it will make the dripping process slower and thus, the coffee will be creamy rich and darker in color. Highly recommended any medium coarsed grind. 80/20 % robusta arabica ratio and dark roasted. Even tho traditionally corn starch and caramel flavoring is added to the coffee ground while roasting, don’t buy those stuffs and stay away from TRUNG NGUYÊN brand. American coffee works perfectly if anybody follows my recommendation. Thank you bud for giving me a chance to show off a bit.
I'm not sure what point there is here. You have two Vietnamese coffee making systems and buy vietnamese coffee, let alone a company boasting the strongest coffee. Then you dismiss the instructions and discover what? Vietnamese coffee is made with robusta coffee, which is bitter in comparison to arabica coffee which is sweeter. The Vietnamese drink it strong and very sweet. You haven't told us much about Vietnamese coffee but came up with a Americanized version. This was a informative, not unenjoyable episode but it missed the mark.
I can hear Uncle Roger saying "Why so weak?". I would weigh the coffee. I started doing this after watching James Hoffman videos, and then realizing that those scale/timer gadgets are cheap and easily available.
clearly no comparison and there should be none as both completely different. The so called "Vietnamese" is in fact a French colonial introduction to the country from the mid 19th Century
These two methods are incomparable. One has very fine mesh and is a relatively recent introduction to the coffee market, and the other is donkey years old with simple holes. Yes better two similar filters. Consequently I stand by my comment.@@DrJamesT
@@gordonwoper5003 Incomparable? They are both devices for making coffee! Maybe two ends of a spectrum, but that makes a comparason even more interesting.
Yes, coffee was introduced to Vietnam by the French, but the locals have made it into a cultural entity of its own. Just as British tea is actually introduced from China, but British tea is its own cultural phenomenon and the way British drink tea is not the same as Chinese. Vietnamese coffee, the way the style in which it is prepared, is not the same as it is in France.
@@KenoticMuse Agreed. Woper's logic is off. Regardless of where the phin was developed or who introduced it to Vietnam, coffee is primarily made in Vietnam using a phin; in France it is not.
I have brewed the coffee in Vietnam with the locals, and I can assure you that the amount three TABLESPOONS is the original recipe. I might add that I’m a Finn, and we drink a lot of coffee, the most per capita in the world and also quite strong coffee, specially in terms of the amount of caffeine the drink contains. That means I, as so many other Finns (and Scandinavians) like strong coffee. The Vietnamese do too. Their coffee is short and strong while according to my experience the Americans like their coffee very mild and long.
You are right about the temperature. It’s crucial if the flow time is long. That’s why you get surprisingly smooth coffee from espresso machines that use hot water. They press hot water quickly through the powder, which has only enough time to release the very light organic aromas and oils from the powder leaving the bitter tasting acids bound to the powder. Reason being that the bitter compounds are bigger molecules and require more time / heat to be released.
So, next time, in order to experience the REAL Vietnamese coffee moment, use the TABLEspoons, just as instructed. If you’re afraid of caffeine, that’s still needless. You get more caffeine by drinking one Red Bull can.
Keep up the good work!
YESSS!!!! Finally a video comparing these two items! Always been looking for a video like this. You read my mind 😊
Which one did you choose in the end?
I don't know what plumbers charge in your area, but you're going to find out if you keep putting coffee grounds down your drain.
Wheat Germ thanks, explains why people use paper filters
@@DrJamesT Used coffee grounds make great fertilizer. If you have a garden or plot plants - throw it in there.
yeah, saw a video on how coffee grounds + drained fat basically turns into disgusting concrete in pipes.
@@Darwingreen5 that's why my family eats all our fat (and nope we're not overweight).
I dont put coffee grounds in the sink but some how at my moms it's the dish soap/tiny amounts of oil/other debris that becomes jello that clogs up the pipes but luckily for me I can take the pipes apart myself and pressure wash the system. disgusting. asian people problem. so that's my reason i dont put coffee grounds in the sink
i see your cat is also interested in coffee
what a cultured cat
I love my Vietnamese coffee filter. I use it at work and it's not bitter, like you said. I was getting a few grounds in the bottom so I cut out circular filters from regular filters. There is an added bonus to this; paper filtered coffee is lower in LDL cholesterol!
Another teeny detail about the cone, I've read a number of times that you'll get better results using a kettle to pour water in a circular motion around the outer perimeter of the cone. This leaves the grinds sitting flat at the end, rather than laying along the edges of the cone (that's how you know you did it right, they say). This is said to render a cup of coffee that is less bitter. I haven't tried it myself yet, but many a coffee snob swears it's worth the effort. Who would have thought coffee could be so complicated?
On another note, thank you so much for making this video. With coffee and coffee roasting becoming such a growing phenomenon, it's disappointing to see so many coffee aficionados overlook the phin preparation and Vietnam's contribution to the global coffee community. After all, Vietnam is the world's 2nd largest source of coffee beans, and the world's FIRST largest source of robusta coffee beans.
Given that the flat filter drip pretty quick compare to how i usually do my coffee, i doubt it was enough coffe to use the vn filter. If there's not enough coffe, the plate would not b as tight and it would give a less concentrated result. With that amount, a smaller sized filter would give better result.
It's been my experience that if you use good quality coffee, the only reason it is bitter is due to over extraction. You may need a coarser grind for that brewing method to slow down the extraction process. You may also need to adjust the amount of water you're using, or possibly the temperature. Otherwise good video!
This is exactly what I was searching for 🧡
Thanks for your review of a review
@@DrJamesT 🤣🤣🤣
Writing this as I am brewing with the Cone. My coffee making methods have improved a lot since the posting of this video. Thanks for your suggestions and constructive feedback. The cone is much easier to empty in the bin.
So you prefer the cone now?
@@hibiscusflower5911I do
Great video ..❤Does the coffee that cones out of the cone leaves a residual ?
The flat steel plate filter system (Vietnamese or Indian) produces a better cup for me than the permanent filter or a pour over paper filter. The oils being extracted thorougly through the slick between the 2 plates must be a big part of it. And even an Espresso grind leaves little mud if blooming time is long enough.
peet1250 the plate evenly distributes the water before it hits the grounded coffee beans. It also takes the heat off.
@@DrJamesT Agreed. Having compared different blends and roasts over the last 3 months using permanent cone filters and a paper pour over against the Vietnamese type, I consistently experienced the same results you describe, particularly the bitterness. I'm no expert, but my tastebuds refused to support the other options which I used for years.
Today I used the cone filter. Easy to use / clean and coffee was great. Just put cone on my mug and pour in the hot water . Coffee was from Gail's , decaf grinded 😊
There's so many variables that control the experience of coffee that's not related to the filtering. I focus on finding the easiest method to use and clean first. Then tweak with coffee grounds.
Phin filter is a pain in the ass, takes forever.
Dude, don't dump the coffee grinds down the drain, you'll mess up your pipes. Tap the filters upside down over the trash, then rinse it out over a fine mesh hand sized strainer to catch the excess granules. Then tap what's in the strainer in the trash. Vietnamese brewed coffee is okay, but I still prefer my French press. Number 2 is vacuum/siphon, 3 is Vietnamese, 4 stovetop glass percolation, and everything else is swill. lol I haven't tried pour over yet, despite having the equipment to make it. lol
Anacaona4 thanks for all that insight!
Explains why they add so much sugar
DrJames Just tried pour over coffee recently. It is delicious! (I bloomed twice, and used an unbleached, pre-moistened paper filter prior to putting the grinds in) Problem is it takes too long to make and you can't just go off and do something else if you're making more than one cup. Next experience, making espresso on the stove top!
DrJames They add so much sugar because the coffee they use is very bitter. Maybe its cheap, I don't know. I hear some people say Cafe du Monde tastes similar. I've never had that, though. Usually, in Asian cultures, bitterness is considered a medicinal property, so I'm thinking that's why they like it? Bitter melon is the worst thing ever, btw. My Asian MIL likes it though, yuck. Tastes like bile to me.
@@Anacaona4 what lies. vietnam makes some of the best coffee beans. the "cafe du monde" brand is non existent in vietnam, that's an american invention. and they don't add fillers or garbage in the coffee. and this coffee with condensed milk is not the main drink they have. they certainly don't brew it bitter.
Planning to buy Barako coffee soon(the best in our country they say) . I am new to ground coffee so this video really helps. Thanks!
PLEASE start a cafe called Barakobama!
@@DrJamesT I already ordered online, Batangas Barako coffee and Batangas Arabica coffee(just local and no brand). I am new to all this. Using 3 in 1 coffee all my life.
I could smell it just watching you open the bag!
The best morning smell to hit your senses!
I assume both produce a cloudy coffee with sediment, like a french press. I prefer a clear brew thru a paper filter.
Good video.
Which pour over filter and Vietnamese filter are you using? Which do you recommend?
Thank you for this video! Now I am decided what filter should I use!
@@anthonymaranan4237 which one have you chosen? And how good is it ?
Should be using a gooseneck kettle with the conical pour over and pouring in a methodical circular swirl. You control the water and bloom it this way first and the coffee isn’t bitter that way at all. Actually, Vietnamese coffee is more bitter but both are good. And 3 TBS is the standard measurement for an 8 oz cup .. informative video overall
I wonder if the result of the cone filter could be improved by using a gooseneck kettle/pitcher to pour the hot water in
Sure if you're sensitive to taste, it's for complete control of water / temperature eveniness.
Should've dumped out that coffee from the blooming under the conical filter before the 2nd pour because it's very bitter and spoils the cup. I noticed there was no coffee under the phin filter after blooming. So you can't know from this experiment for sure if the conical filter really delivered more bitter coffee than the phin filter.
Caffeine on its own tastes bitter, alkaline, and slightly soapy. It's also very water soluble. The first pour would have the highest concentration of caffeine so the bitterness does make sense. What you're saying sounds inconsistent. I kept everything the same by not pouring anything out. Like for like. Minimizing variables.
Great blog! Maybe I find Vietnamise coffee filter. Did not know All Viet. Coffee was dark roast! How cool is that! I partial to Fre ch roast or Italian roast so Vietnamise might like? Thanks again Dr.
ALL GOOD ADVICE. HAVING SAID THAT I'VE POURED COFFEE GROUNDS DOWN MY SINK DRAIN FOR THE 30 YEARS I'VE LIVED IN MY HOUSE EVERYDAY. NEVER HAD A PROBLEM.
you have good luck, or don't dump a lot of beef fat down the drain.
Black Orchid Coffee has a wonderful blended Vietnamese coffee that works great in either of these.
Did the cone leave a cloudy coffee with sediments as well as the fin ?
The cone has a finer mesh
@@DrJamesT thank you 🙏
Is that enough coffee?
What make is the cone from ? Where did you buy ? Please
amzn.to/3XIIAMH , if you don't mind waiting for a month to ship from China search Aliexpress for "Reusable Double Layer 304 Stainless Steel Coffee Filter Holder Pour Over Coffees Dripper Mesh Coffee Tea Filter Basket Tools"
did you just make a v60 straight from the water dispenser
This dispenser has coffee mode which creates a thin stream of hot water
Put more coffee next time not enough
hoa tran I agree if I want to make a strong brew. It could be so strong that I couldn’t tell the difference. I purposely use a smaller amount to tease out the subtle differences. Btw this is just a sample size.
@@DrJamesT It's not about a strong brew. It's about the flavour. If you want a weak good tasting coffee then you use less or arabica. Vietnamese coffee is mostly robusta but they have a good amount of arabica as well. It usually takes ~7 to 10mins for a 7cm coffee phin to drop out a good tasting coffee. It depends on the size of the grains and if you have a vacuum seal/osmotic pressure etc etc. Some times the pressure of the air and water won't let the coffee drip and lifting the cup part will break the pressure and make it start dripping.
We prefer aluminum ones because you can taste the truely strong flavor of Vietnamese coffee!
I have the stainless steel cone pour-over coffee dripper and I love it but
after making my first of 3 - ½ - ¾ cups of coffee, the dripper starts dripping very slow, if at all.
I have to push up the coffee grinds to get it to start dripping again.
When I fill the dripper up with water it drips through but when it gets halfway down, it slows down or stops.
I use 3 tablespoons of coffee grinds.
I clean both sides with hot water. Any ideas?
5:55 I thought you were asking your cat!
Lol not a really good test since you didn’t measure the coffee grounds. You kinda just put “3” teaspoons of coffee grounds. You should have weighed the grounds for a more accurate test
Based on this experience, taste can be adjusted in either device to match each other. The most important factor is cleaning it. I use the one that take less time. The cone is my daily go to. I use 1 tablespoon.
It’s supposed to be 3 table spoon, vietnamese coffee not supposed to be drank light or it will taste very bad
Also slow drips. It looked to me that his coffee was dripping about 2 or 3 times faster than ideal.
@@skilletpan5674 yep, we’re gotta put a touch of rapid boil water around the PHIN (vnmese word for our dripper) to heat up the metal, then put the coffee in and press with the presser, pour boiling water in just a touch and let the coffee absords and expand. Now we pour it in full and again boiling water. With the expansion of the coffee ground it will make the dripping process slower and thus, the coffee will be creamy rich and darker in color. Highly recommended any medium coarsed grind. 80/20 % robusta arabica ratio and dark roasted. Even tho traditionally corn starch and caramel flavoring is added to the coffee ground while roasting, don’t buy those stuffs and stay away from TRUNG NGUYÊN brand. American coffee works perfectly if anybody follows my recommendation. Thank you bud for giving me a chance to show off a bit.
I trust a Lam to tell me about coffee.
@@danlam2604 Why stay away from TRUNG NGUYEN? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious since I don't know anything about the brand.
Messed up when you used tea spoons.
1 tablespoon is enough to keep me up. This is just a taste test, and more importantly a cleaning test.
Maybe their table spoons are smaller, (?)
I'm not sure what point there is here. You have two Vietnamese coffee making systems and buy vietnamese coffee, let alone a company boasting the strongest coffee. Then you dismiss the instructions and discover what? Vietnamese coffee is made with robusta coffee, which is bitter in comparison to arabica coffee which is sweeter. The Vietnamese drink it strong and very sweet. You haven't told us much about Vietnamese coffee but came up with a Americanized version. This was a informative, not unenjoyable episode but it missed the mark.
Too little coffee!
the bitter taste is your method.......
Doing 3 teaspoons instead of 3 tablespoons = weak lol jk
Well I caved in did 3 tablespoons. Drank it at 12pm. I didn't sleep until 4am. Came up with a new revelation in that time.
@@DrJamesT more content right 😉
I can hear Uncle Roger saying "Why so weak?". I would weigh the coffee. I started doing this after watching James Hoffman videos, and then realizing that those scale/timer gadgets are cheap and easily available.
biased
Rupert Gwillim towards drinking coffee?
clearly no comparison and there should be none as both completely different. The so called "Vietnamese" is in fact a French colonial introduction to the country from the mid 19th Century
gordon woper by your logic we should compare something that is obviously similar. Which could be said is what I did as they are both drop filter.
These two methods are incomparable. One has very fine mesh and is a relatively recent introduction to the coffee market, and the other is donkey years old with simple holes. Yes better two similar filters. Consequently I stand by my comment.@@DrJamesT
@@gordonwoper5003 Incomparable? They are both devices for making coffee! Maybe two ends of a spectrum, but that makes a comparason even more interesting.
Yes, coffee was introduced to Vietnam by the French, but the locals have made it into a cultural entity of its own. Just as British tea is actually introduced from China, but British tea is its own cultural phenomenon and the way British drink tea is not the same as Chinese. Vietnamese coffee, the way the style in which it is prepared, is not the same as it is in France.
@@KenoticMuse Agreed. Woper's logic is off. Regardless of where the phin was developed or who introduced it to Vietnam, coffee is primarily made in Vietnam using a phin; in France it is not.