Quite recently I learned that Chitin is actually pronounced with a K, so phonetically you say "Kai·tn". The revelation that I mispronounced it all this time shocked me more than I like to admit, but I'd probably still try to act smug about knowing the *correct* pronounciation in front of my Entemologist friend here.
I had the exact same experience with chelicerates, pronouncing it hard ch- instead of k-. Strangely enough, the cera should be pronounced kera and not sera, but it makes the world exceptionally difficult to say so people go with the softer pronouncation.
I still remember how much I LMAOd at a YT clip of a frog slurping up a bombadeer beetle. Poor b*st*rd couldn't get his mouth back open quick enough as he used his little frog hands to scrape the beetle off his tongue. It was a hilarious lesson in "f*ck around and find out"!🤣 Cool audio Fake! LOVED IT!!!😊💚👍
But I counter with the lizards wich spew boiling blood from there eyes, with a few chemicals added by a dragons variation in diet it could easily turn into a combustible substance
While true, I would argue that while multiple limb counts in excess of six are common in the hexapoda (and wider arthropoda), they are unheard of in the tetrapoda (depending on how far back you are willing to go evolutionary speaking, arthropod mouth parts are also just modified limbs afterall). That being said, there are wingless hexapods (even insects, as silverfish are now consider true insects) which still gives a nice round six limbs on the thoracic region.
@@A1phaDrag0n While I am willing to concur that many dragons could be considered hexapoda, I would posit that skaters and water boatmen are a better comparison than beetles. Additionally, there is evidence of tetrapoda developing 'wings' from outgrowths of the ribs, such as the genus *Draco* of the iguania family.
@@eadgyth5009 I believe membranous outcroppings associated with ribs in certain gliding reptiles are better analogized with fins than true limbs, but it very much worth noting. I'm gonna be a little more firm on my stance regarding placement in the Coleoptera, Hemipetrans are known for chemical defences but the specific form of thermal reaction is very much a Coleopteran thing (though I would conceed that if it evolved once, it could certainly evolve again). I'm looking a lot at the structure of the foot here, being a complex claw with some defined tarsal padding, very much inline with weevils and longhorn beetles (though notably not a Carabidae trait). The sclerotization is more pronounced, which is something beetles are noted for, but this could relate more to structural integrity than the taxons evolutionary history. The issue is that dragons lost their historical hexapodal wings (assuming they aren't silverfish) and redeveloped them with the middle leg pair, if we had the original wings, we could simply check to see if they formed elytra or hemielytra, which would make the matter a lot simplier.
0:13 aren’t wings modified arms in most animals? also I would say drakes are important in arguement since they are often close relatives to true dragons
For vertebrates, with invertebrates, specifically insects, wings are thought to be a remnant gill/solar heating surface (like there being no vertebrates with more than four limbs attached to the spinal column, very few invertebrates have more than a single pair of limbs to a segment. Millipedes come to mind, but there is evolutionary evidence that this is a result of fusion of segments).
Many arthropod groups have scales, Lepidoptera, Coleoptera and even Araneae are known to produce scales. However, no known reptile normally/regularly develops more than four limbs.
So, do you just know all of this type of stuff? Do you have an actual degree in entomology? If so, cool. If not, how do you manahe to say all this stuff while sounding so confident?
You know, if dungeon meshi dragons weren't descendants of dinosaurs, you could easily use this argument and it would make all the sense in the world. Or most the sense of the world. Also I don't care how scientifically accurate it would be to call a dragon a beetle, Dragonflies were RIGHT there!
That doesn't make sense, leg count varies wildly even with the various arthropoda clades. Hexapoda even includes groups that have lost legs through reduction via evolutionary processes. Outside of hexapoda, chelicerata varies from 4 to 10 legs, myriapoda can vary wildly based on life stage, ranging from 6 to over 1,000 legs and the grab bag of crustacea (separating them from the hexapoda as pancrustacea for ease of communication) varies wildly as well. Even the decapoda includes groups with fewer than 10 legs (a surprising amount with 8).
@@A1phaDrag0n Amongst the clade Hexapoda they specifically DO NOT count wings, or else 'true insects' would not be Hexapods. Specifically, they have three thoracic sections, with one pair of legs each. There is some debate regarding HOW insect wings evolved, but unlike winged-tetrapods, they are NOT believed to be modified legs. Many believe they are modified gills of all things.
@BlackBanditXX I don't think I claimed that at any point, but not all insects have six legs anyways, as we have at least one genus in which the females have lost their adult form and don't develop legs at all. Also, in hexapoda we absolutely do count wings as division based on wing count is used to help separate dipterans and those obscure hymenopteran parasites from other insect groups that have the more traditional two wing pairs. If you're referring to the video, she specifically states she believes the wings are modified legs, citing the diving beetles as an example of a leg undergoing a shift if form to become more like a fin.
@@A1phaDrag0n The problem you're having is with daughter clades, which have evolved off of the parent. Daughter clades may lose features that the parent(s) once had, but those genes are still there in some form. As for the leg to fin (wing), the reason I pointed it out is that the insect wing is ANCIENT, to the point we have a HARD time studying its development. Most importantly, Beetles HAVE wings and they're NOT legs. Ergo, dragons have the wrong number of limbs and they're missing elytra.
@BlackBanditXX that's not a problem, there is nothing to stop a daughter clade redeveloping a feature in an unrelated structure, while leaving old genetic material dormant. Athropoda is the best example of this, with the absurd varieties of ways it's developed envenomation techniques in related groups. There's nothing wrong with postulating that dragons lost their elytra and membranous wings (something that commonly occurs throughout the hexapoda clade) then redeveloped wings through modification of the second leg pair. In fact, if I was to blaspheme and say adaptation was occuring, the sheer weight of elytra and even membranous wings would make flight more difficult as it adds additional load to the animal. One of the first important lessons I was taught in invertebrate taxonomy was to discard the Occam's razor approach, explicitly because the groups so ancient and has so much diversity that things like what we've discussed are almost inevitable.
I'm sorry ma'am, but by your own logic, the wings/elytra and antennae of a beetle would have to be considered "modified limbs", promoting them from hexapods to decapods, or even _dodecapods_. Your reckless taxonomy has effectively carsonized _one quarter_ of Earth's life. How could you?
You know, recent molecular work done on the wider arthropoda nested modern hexapoda within the current crustacea (the combined hexapoda and crustacea now being referred to as pancrustacea), you're really not that far off the truth.
Say what now I did not understand a word of what you just said sounded llike a whole lot of nonsense to me and no dragons are not bugs I'm sorry but your hypothesis barely holds a cup of water with holes in it
@A1phaDrag0n as extensive as my knowledge of dragons and I do have a dragonology book in my room in my bookcase there are no such insect form of dragons
And how would anybody or a person who has the acknowledgment of studying bugs think dragons are bugs there is nothing that is said in recorded history that bogues are descendants of dragons it just does not happen
![Lab Work With Your Argumentative Entomologist Friend (ASMR Roleplay) [F4A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EIwu8N8rcl0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Sandman Girl Helps You Sleep (ASMR Roleplay) [F4A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U2Xfn8lLZ0E/mqdefault.jpg)
Academia= arguing about stupid shit with your friends. Yes!
Quite recently I learned that Chitin is actually pronounced with a K, so phonetically you say "Kai·tn".
The revelation that I mispronounced it all this time shocked me more than I like to admit, but I'd probably still try to act smug about knowing the *correct* pronounciation in front of my Entemologist friend here.
I had the exact same experience with chelicerates, pronouncing it hard ch- instead of k-. Strangely enough, the cera should be pronounced kera and not sera, but it makes the world exceptionally difficult to say so people go with the softer pronouncation.
I still remember how much I LMAOd at a YT clip of a frog slurping up a bombadeer beetle. Poor b*st*rd couldn't get his mouth back open quick enough as he used his little frog hands to scrape the beetle off his tongue. It was a hilarious lesson in "f*ck around and find out"!🤣 Cool audio Fake! LOVED IT!!!😊💚👍
The bombardier beetle is actually a good point that i never thought of in classifying regarding a dragon
But I counter with the lizards wich spew boiling blood from there eyes, with a few chemicals added by a dragons variation in diet it could easily turn into a combustible substance
Wyverns are clearly experiencing evolutionary truncation, not unlike tetrapodal mites or bat flies (or kiwi birds).
Meteorologist & Entomologist back to back. That's an insane coincidence right there. 🌪🕷
"Dragons are beetles" is criminal and I will happily argue about this.
Fantastic audio fake
I'm sweating knowing my next submission is a bug girl.
I'm still waiting for that moose. 🦌
@@Atomic_Thomas Meese? 🤔
@@l0sts0ul89 How will you speak to that moose?
@@Atomic_Thomaswhat does the fox say?
@@Atomic_Thomas she'll show up in the winter, saving you from a blizzard
Wait, aren't there lots of beetles that have six legs AND wings? Wouldn't that mean that those beetles have 8 limbs?
The wings on a beetle are, in fact, not only not modified legs, but four in number. The forewings are hardened into elytra, or 'wing-cases'.
Hmm, that makes sense. Wouldn't that really highlight the difference between dragon and beetle wings?
While true, I would argue that while multiple limb counts in excess of six are common in the hexapoda (and wider arthropoda), they are unheard of in the tetrapoda (depending on how far back you are willing to go evolutionary speaking, arthropod mouth parts are also just modified limbs afterall). That being said, there are wingless hexapods (even insects, as silverfish are now consider true insects) which still gives a nice round six limbs on the thoracic region.
@@A1phaDrag0n While I am willing to concur that many dragons could be considered hexapoda, I would posit that skaters and water boatmen are a better comparison than beetles. Additionally, there is evidence of tetrapoda developing 'wings' from outgrowths of the ribs, such as the genus *Draco* of the iguania family.
@@eadgyth5009 I believe membranous outcroppings associated with ribs in certain gliding reptiles are better analogized with fins than true limbs, but it very much worth noting. I'm gonna be a little more firm on my stance regarding placement in the Coleoptera, Hemipetrans are known for chemical defences but the specific form of thermal reaction is very much a Coleopteran thing (though I would conceed that if it evolved once, it could certainly evolve again). I'm looking a lot at the structure of the foot here, being a complex claw with some defined tarsal padding, very much inline with weevils and longhorn beetles (though notably not a Carabidae trait). The sclerotization is more pronounced, which is something beetles are noted for, but this could relate more to structural integrity than the taxons evolutionary history. The issue is that dragons lost their historical hexapodal wings (assuming they aren't silverfish) and redeveloped them with the middle leg pair, if we had the original wings, we could simply check to see if they formed elytra or hemielytra, which would make the matter a lot simplier.
Hmm... limbed fish/ similar... mudskipper, coelecanth maybe?
I feel like fake has found the perfect niche of pronouncing complex sounding scientific words, and I am here for it🎉
I can't lol I can't this is too funny especially the thumbnail
Sounds like the gilmore girls fell into an advanced biology textbook. I think it might be... yup alphadragon.
The thing is I love dragons more than anything and this got my so triggered and I had a gud laugh
the use of the word mate makes me think you should've been doing a nasty ass Australian accent through this lmao
0:13 aren’t wings modified arms in most animals?
also I would say drakes are important in arguement since they are often close relatives to true dragons
For vertebrates, with invertebrates, specifically insects, wings are thought to be a remnant gill/solar heating surface (like there being no vertebrates with more than four limbs attached to the spinal column, very few invertebrates have more than a single pair of limbs to a segment. Millipedes come to mind, but there is evolutionary evidence that this is a result of fusion of segments).
It's not an exoskeleton they're scales. You know like snakes and lizards
Many arthropod groups have scales, Lepidoptera, Coleoptera and even Araneae are known to produce scales. However, no known reptile normally/regularly develops more than four limbs.
@@A1phaDrag0n There is little to no consensus on the number of limbs a dragon has, from none to eight.
@@BlackBanditXX that would still suggest they are invertebrates, tetrapods can have less than four, but never more.
...does this mean I should be afraid of flyswatters, now? 😨
So, do you just know all of this type of stuff? Do you have an actual degree in entomology? If so, cool. If not, how do you manahe to say all this stuff while sounding so confident?
How long until we get a Zoologist on this channel?
You know, if dungeon meshi dragons weren't descendants of dinosaurs, you could easily use this argument and it would make all the sense in the world. Or most the sense of the world.
Also I don't care how scientifically accurate it would be to call a dragon a beetle, Dragonflies were RIGHT there!
This is infuriating bc ur right an i dont want dragons to be beetles
With arthropoda it is specifically LEGS that you count, not wings.
That doesn't make sense, leg count varies wildly even with the various arthropoda clades. Hexapoda even includes groups that have lost legs through reduction via evolutionary processes. Outside of hexapoda, chelicerata varies from 4 to 10 legs, myriapoda can vary wildly based on life stage, ranging from 6 to over 1,000 legs and the grab bag of crustacea (separating them from the hexapoda as pancrustacea for ease of communication) varies wildly as well. Even the decapoda includes groups with fewer than 10 legs (a surprising amount with 8).
@@A1phaDrag0n Amongst the clade Hexapoda they specifically DO NOT count wings, or else 'true insects' would not be Hexapods. Specifically, they have three thoracic sections, with one pair of legs each. There is some debate regarding HOW insect wings evolved, but unlike winged-tetrapods, they are NOT believed to be modified legs. Many believe they are modified gills of all things.
@BlackBanditXX I don't think I claimed that at any point, but not all insects have six legs anyways, as we have at least one genus in which the females have lost their adult form and don't develop legs at all. Also, in hexapoda we absolutely do count wings as division based on wing count is used to help separate dipterans and those obscure hymenopteran parasites from other insect groups that have the more traditional two wing pairs. If you're referring to the video, she specifically states she believes the wings are modified legs, citing the diving beetles as an example of a leg undergoing a shift if form to become more like a fin.
@@A1phaDrag0n The problem you're having is with daughter clades, which have evolved off of the parent. Daughter clades may lose features that the parent(s) once had, but those genes are still there in some form.
As for the leg to fin (wing), the reason I pointed it out is that the insect wing is ANCIENT, to the point we have a HARD time studying its development. Most importantly, Beetles HAVE wings and they're NOT legs. Ergo, dragons have the wrong number of limbs and they're missing elytra.
@BlackBanditXX that's not a problem, there is nothing to stop a daughter clade redeveloping a feature in an unrelated structure, while leaving old genetic material dormant. Athropoda is the best example of this, with the absurd varieties of ways it's developed envenomation techniques in related groups. There's nothing wrong with postulating that dragons lost their elytra and membranous wings (something that commonly occurs throughout the hexapoda clade) then redeveloped wings through modification of the second leg pair. In fact, if I was to blaspheme and say adaptation was occuring, the sheer weight of elytra and even membranous wings would make flight more difficult as it adds additional load to the animal. One of the first important lessons I was taught in invertebrate taxonomy was to discard the Occam's razor approach, explicitly because the groups so ancient and has so much diversity that things like what we've discussed are almost inevitable.
I'm sorry ma'am, but by your own logic, the wings/elytra and antennae of a beetle would have to be considered "modified limbs", promoting them from hexapods to decapods, or even _dodecapods_. Your reckless taxonomy has effectively carsonized _one quarter_ of Earth's life. How could you?
You know, recent molecular work done on the wider arthropoda nested modern hexapoda within the current crustacea (the combined hexapoda and crustacea now being referred to as pancrustacea), you're really not that far off the truth.
@A1phaDrag0n _NO!_ I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS! *GOD'S FAVORITE ANIMAL WILL **_NOT_** RETURN TO CRAB!!*
Say what now I did not understand a word of what you just said sounded llike a whole lot of nonsense to me and no dragons are not bugs I'm sorry but your hypothesis barely holds a cup of water with holes in it
You show me a proper molecular phylogeny of dragons where they are explicitly excluded from arthropoda.
@A1phaDrag0n as extensive as my knowledge of dragons and I do have a dragonology book in my room in my bookcase there are no such insect form of dragons
And how would anybody or a person who has the acknowledgment of studying bugs think dragons are bugs there is nothing that is said in recorded history that bogues are descendants of dragons it just does not happen
I know nothing of entomology, so I am not following any of this whatsoever.