I suspect these would be good option for my students doing mounted training as well. We're currently using the stamped nylon sabers from Purpleheart Armory, but many students like a straight blade and the stamped nylons have no distal taper (at least at first: I put a taper on using a rasp and sandpaper).
Yes that could be a good option. In that case I would suggest you ask them to make the blade longer. The one I show here has an 85cm blade, which was a mistake, whereas the production model is downt to 81cm.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing That's cool to hear! Now if they had a steel Spadroon and Broadsword that'd complete my set for Roworth. Love the channel and your videos btw, they've helped me immensely!
Nick, thank you for briliant presentation in this video and also other ones you made. My question is what about Black Fencer 1864 Gymnasium Sabre AND/OR 1796 Heavy Cavalry Sword synthetics in the same roles, what downsides would there be to them? Gymnasium sabre was specificaly for training students of British Swordsmanship and I was of the impression Black Fencer mimic those features in their synthetic waster.
Thanks. Those two fulfill quite different roles as they are significantly heavier, hit a lot harder, are much stiffer on the thrust and much more tiring in use. The 1796 heavy cav was made according to my recommendation based on the specs of originals and is a good match for some of the shortened antiques, but then it does represent a cavalry sword known for its heft, and so you have to expect that. When it comes to the 1864 gymnasium, its come out overweight and so once again is a better match for cavalry sabres than infantry ones. It's why I am not fond of the three bar synthetic for the same reason, though I have given feedback to BF and that might change.
Aside from the Red Dragon gloves, what kind of protective equipment is recommended for sparring with synthetic spadroons like that? You mentioned that it hits light, similar to a singlestick, so does it have the same protection requirement or more?
As always, depends on your tolerance for bumps and bruises, and residual injury risks. We spar in the summer with the lighter BFs in shirtsleeves and light gloves (plus head prot), but we know each other, aren't worried about minor painful bruises, and are not looking to hit particularly hard, so it's only unintentionally hard blows you need to worry about. If you are worried about the theoretical possibility of a crippled elbow or the more likely but less disastrous possibility of a broken finger, or very keen to avoid even minor pain, you could go for a light jacket, elbow guards and Red Dragon gloves.
Yes it does depend on contact levels really, and pain tolerance. We use them in our full sparring gear, which includes jackets, arm guards and leg guards. This allows a very high contact, yet safe fight. Considering it is a spadroon then you want to thrust a lot with it, so a jacket would be advisable, but if you use it more like a singlestick, then treat it as a singlestick for protective gear.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing As you pointed out, they are flexible. In shirtsleeves you might get a sore rib from a good thrust with the BF spadroon. I doubt you could get a broken rib, and obviously the risk of a penetration with broken steel is not there. The whole point of using them in the summer is that it means we can do without the jackets when it's too hot. But as you say, it's always about contact levels and pain/risk tolerance. There's a place for kitting up and going at it a outrance as well....
I did a first impressions video of two that I recently received below. Sadly due to Covid lockdowns i have only got to use them at about two training sessions. Overall I like them. I think the benefits of the material might be more noticeable with straight blades too. th-cam.com/video/vbFiwqHW8kw/w-d-xo.html
When you display a weapon, could you please move it more slowly? It's quite hard to track detail with the changing perspectives. Your display when you're talking about something else is nice. (Compare the movement around 0:20 to the general stillness around 7:00).
Put a can of beer in your hand. Now hold it out in front of you, straight arm. Keep it there. How long can you do it without shaking or drooping? No cheating! Same in swordsmanship or any other martial art. It's all about developing the proper muscles. Nobody starts out pulling 120 pounds on the bow. Start easy and work up.
I put s short ZWA "rapier blade" on a smallsword hilt and got what is essentially a double edged spadroon. It is good fun and a bit easier on the arm than my sabres (messed up shoulders from bike crashes, people drive on the phones too much). Is Kraken the only one making ready-made steel spadroons? I ask as they seem fairly hard to find anywhere.
Not really, the spadroon was a very good weapon which was marred by certain bad examples of the last examples used in Britain, and poor information perpetuated by those who don't know much about sword usage.
Yes absolutely, as a spadroon is basically like a mini heavy cav, it will allow you to develop your technique without the bad habits of started with a heavy cav, which will encourage you to wildly swing without having built a good foundation first.
@Jo Adams - they really aren't. This is an opinion based on the complaints by some officers due to bad examples of the very last pattern spadroon ever used in Britain. That hardly accounts for that pattern on the whole or the almost two hundred years of their history. It also is not at all representative of an officers duty and expectations of the time. They were expected to lead by example and from the front, and regularly did end up in combat. This is very well documented.
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My initial thought was "Why not just use a singlestick for training?" You were ready for that question 8-)
I suspect these would be good option for my students doing mounted training as well. We're currently using the stamped nylon sabers from Purpleheart Armory, but many students like a straight blade and the stamped nylons have no distal taper (at least at first: I put a taper on using a rasp and sandpaper).
Yes that could be a good option. In that case I would suggest you ask them to make the blade longer. The one I show here has an 85cm blade, which was a mistake, whereas the production model is downt to 81cm.
Archibald Cunningham conquers. Except "if one was to kill an ox a claymore would be my first choice your grace."
You can also start with a saber, then after you get smoked, transition to a lighter weapon to keep going 🙂
Longsword-no style at all. Haha. I know that wasn't what you meant but it made me laugh. Great vid. :D
I smirked at that ,visions of new Longsword students swinging it like a bat, or going full "star wars boy"
I hope someday Black Fencer will make a steel 1796 Spadroon. It'd be a wonderful addition to their sabres I believe
I am pushing them to do it all the time, but they are rather busy. I am sure it will happen eventually.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing That's cool to hear! Now if they had a steel Spadroon and Broadsword that'd complete my set for Roworth. Love the channel and your videos btw, they've helped me immensely!
@@deathwatch5872 any update on this ?
Isn’t the 1796 the one that gave spadroons a bad name?
Makes sense.
Where did you get your spadroon from?
The synthetic if from Black Fencer in Spain. The antique was from a UK auction house.
Did you make this video, because I commented how light and easy my antique Spadroon felt vs my training sabre?
It's a subject that has come up a lot lately. How light blades can be beneficial to training purposes, so it was an obvious one.
Could you compare rowarths defense on foot to cold steel?
Nick, thank you for briliant presentation in this video and also other ones you made.
My question is what about Black Fencer 1864 Gymnasium Sabre AND/OR 1796 Heavy Cavalry Sword synthetics in the same roles, what downsides would there be to them?
Gymnasium sabre was specificaly for training students of British Swordsmanship and I was of the impression Black Fencer mimic those features in their synthetic waster.
Thanks. Those two fulfill quite different roles as they are significantly heavier, hit a lot harder, are much stiffer on the thrust and much more tiring in use. The 1796 heavy cav was made according to my recommendation based on the specs of originals and is a good match for some of the shortened antiques, but then it does represent a cavalry sword known for its heft, and so you have to expect that. When it comes to the 1864 gymnasium, its come out overweight and so once again is a better match for cavalry sabres than infantry ones. It's why I am not fond of the three bar synthetic for the same reason, though I have given feedback to BF and that might change.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing thank you!
Aside from the Red Dragon gloves, what kind of protective equipment is recommended for sparring with synthetic spadroons like that? You mentioned that it hits light, similar to a singlestick, so does it have the same protection requirement or more?
I would assume a mask and a jacket. I still wouldn't want to get whacked with that on a naked elbow.
As always, depends on your tolerance for bumps and bruises, and residual injury risks. We spar in the summer with the lighter BFs in shirtsleeves and light gloves (plus head prot), but we know each other, aren't worried about minor painful bruises, and are not looking to hit particularly hard, so it's only unintentionally hard blows you need to worry about. If you are worried about the theoretical possibility of a crippled elbow or the more likely but less disastrous possibility of a broken finger, or very keen to avoid even minor pain, you could go for a light jacket, elbow guards and Red Dragon gloves.
Yes it does depend on contact levels really, and pain tolerance. We use them in our full sparring gear, which includes jackets, arm guards and leg guards. This allows a very high contact, yet safe fight. Considering it is a spadroon then you want to thrust a lot with it, so a jacket would be advisable, but if you use it more like a singlestick, then treat it as a singlestick for protective gear.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing As you pointed out, they are flexible. In shirtsleeves you might get a sore rib from a good thrust with the BF spadroon. I doubt you could get a broken rib, and obviously the risk of a penetration with broken steel is not there. The whole point of using them in the summer is that it means we can do without the jackets when it's too hot.
But as you say, it's always about contact levels and pain/risk tolerance. There's a place for kitting up and going at it a outrance as well....
What do you think of Black Fencer's new grey/silver blades?
I did a first impressions video of two that I recently received below. Sadly due to Covid lockdowns i have only got to use them at about two training sessions. Overall I like them. I think the benefits of the material might be more noticeable with straight blades too.
th-cam.com/video/vbFiwqHW8kw/w-d-xo.html
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing It might be a good time to order a spadroon from them
When you display a weapon, could you please move it more slowly? It's quite hard to track detail with the changing perspectives. Your display when you're talking about something else is nice. (Compare the movement around 0:20 to the general stillness around 7:00).
Put a can of beer in your hand.
Now hold it out in front of you, straight arm.
Keep it there.
How long can you do it without shaking or drooping?
No cheating!
Same in swordsmanship or any other martial art. It's all about developing the proper muscles. Nobody starts out pulling 120 pounds on the bow. Start easy and work up.
I put s short ZWA "rapier blade" on a smallsword hilt and got what is essentially a double edged spadroon.
It is good fun and a bit easier on the arm than my sabres (messed up shoulders from bike crashes, people drive on the phones too much).
Is Kraken the only one making ready-made steel spadroons? I ask as they seem fairly hard to find anywhere.
I think Castile makes non-sharpened ones, with three different hilts (four if you count the economy version).
it makes a better training/ practice weapon than a functional real weapon.
Not really, the spadroon was a very good weapon which was marred by certain bad examples of the last examples used in Britain, and poor information perpetuated by those who don't know much about sword usage.
So use a light simulator for initial training and a heavier one for conditioning ?
Yep, that's one way to do it. The light is excellent for long running partnered drills and beginners, as well as more easy going fights.
I'd like to end up using a 1796 HCS, would a Spadroon therefore be a good 'starter' BMS weapon for me?
Yes absolutely, as a spadroon is basically like a mini heavy cav, it will allow you to develop your technique without the bad habits of started with a heavy cav, which will encourage you to wildly swing without having built a good foundation first.
black fencer wont ship to my location
If you're in the US, you'll need to order through South Coast Swords
the cheaper version of scholagladiatora
Of course it's a great HEMA training sword; I've been saying it's perfect for years. Even the sharps work; can't cut, don't thrust.
Thankfully that opinion is fading now that people know better.
Makes sense, spadroons were what the military gave to officers who needed a sword for appearance's sake but had no business actually fighting.
@@joadams8022 I think you need to watch AHF's videos on the history of the spadroon.
@Jo Adams - they really aren't. This is an opinion based on the complaints by some officers due to bad examples of the very last pattern spadroon ever used in Britain. That hardly accounts for that pattern on the whole or the almost two hundred years of their history. It also is not at all representative of an officers duty and expectations of the time. They were expected to lead by example and from the front, and regularly did end up in combat. This is very well documented.