Tillotson Carburetor Will It Run Without a Fuel Pump? Let's Find Out! DUCAR Predator Ghost 212
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- Tillotson style carburetor link:
www.amazon.com...
If you use a lot of these plastic pulse fuel pumps and or have a buddy that also uses these I'd recommend the 10 pack, they cost less than $5 each for the bulk 10 pack.
10 Pack of Pulse Fuel Pumps: www.amazon.com...
1 pack Pulse Fuel Pump: www.amazon.com...
The product title for the Tillotson carburetor in the link is "YOFMOO Carburetor Carb Compatible for Stihl"
The first carb I received was the "FULIN" brand. I was pleased with it and ordered another. The next carburetor I received, from the same link listed above, was branded "Tillotson" and had a larger venturi. I've ordered more since then and have been receiving carbs branded "Tillotson". Keep in mind these are Tillotson "clone" carburetors and NOT likely to be genuine. It's my belief that they are likely using genuine Tillotson block stacks on a cloned carb body. Get these while you can, if nothing else they're worth the price even if used for replacement parts.
This video features the Tillotson Clone Carburetor and a fuel pump install that I'm using on this DUCAR 212 Hemi engine build. I had heard rumors of guys running these carbs "without" an external fuel pump but I've never actually seen it done. In this video I wanted to experiment with the idea and see if there was anything to the rumors. I've never tried running a Tillotson diaphragm type carburetor without a fuel pump before so I really don't know? Will it work? We'll find out.
These are chainsaw replacement carburetors but the performance gain of installing one on a 212 DUCAR or 212 Predator is definitely worth a look.
Are they worth the price? I think so. How much do they cost? Well, that may change, but I paid less than $15 each for these carbs including the tax and shipping. I don't know what the current price will be when you see this video but I'll put the link where I ordered mine if anybody wants to check them out. I will likely be buying a few more of these for other projects as the Tillotson style diaphragm pump carburetors are among my favorite carburetors. Out of the 2 carburetors I ordered I was completely floored by one of them, one has "Tillotson" and "Made in Ireland" raised in the casting. Update: I have received 2 more carbs with "Tillotson" markings I'll have another Tillotson video up soon. One of the LCT 179cc engine builds coming up may receive a Tillotson as well!
The throttle bore on the intake side measure one inch and two thousandths on BOTH carburetors (1.002) The carb venturi is smaller than the butterfly bore but there is a noticeable venturi size difference between the two carburetors, the one marked "Made in Ireland" is much larger. I will have exact measurements of the venturi in the next Tillotson video. It's a good deal larger than that of a stock 212 carburetor.
Tillotson style carburetor link:
www.amazon.com...
There will definitely be more videos made on these Tillotson clone carburetors. Some ideas I would like to try: Add a 2nd pump stack and see if I can get one of these gas carbs to run on methanol fuel. Maybe add a 3rd pump stack triple pumper experiment? The Predator Ghost 212 is in for some trouble against this Ducar 212 Hemi engine build.
If you guys enjoy Racing Karts and Race Video Footage be sure to check out @franksoutdoorlife Frank has lots of great Kart racing videos with excellent commentary!
Thanks, Chris "Kentucky Fried Fixes"
*Easter Egg in the video: Did you notice something at the very end of the engine run clip? There was a 5/16 nut that bounced onto the table from the front of the engine. I had intended to bolt the engine down by placing the front mounting holes over two 5/16 studs. While filming, I forgot to run down and tighten the 5/16 mounting nuts on the studs before starting the engine. So after it started, one of the mounting nuts tried to escape.*
#212cc #212 #predator #ghost #kartracing #predator212 #predator224 #tillotson #billet #ringcompressor #wiseco #rings #besttools #bestgadgets #enginebuild #enginebuilding101 #KentuckyFriedFixes #224
From what I'm seeing...there's a big hump in the fuel line from the tank to the carb. It's not a straight up/down shot. I'm not sure how fuel is supposed to get over that Mt Everest sized hump in the line to get to the carb with just gravity to help. Maybe a shorter fuel line for a straighter shot?
I'm not giving up on it. There will be more attempts to run a Tillotson without a fuel pump coming up. I have been thinking about that very issue with the fuel line being elevated on this attempt. It could make all the difference. Thanks!
Tillotson v Mikuni. All things considered. Which is better? Also ever mess with Dellorto or Weber carbs?
The Mikuni carbs do have an advantage with air flow. I really like the slide carbs. But where the Tillotson has an advantage over the Mikuni is it can pump fuel into the throttle bore like a fuel injection. For a Methanol engine that's a big advantage! I've never messed with a Dellorto carb. And the only Webers I've fooled with were on VW engines! LOL!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes yup, dual Weber carbs on a type 1. I don't know much about methanol. Good stuff.
You better wring out that paper towel into your gas can 😂 all kidding aside nice video! I've never messed with a tillitson carb other than a little bit with the tct. Are they used mostly in karting applications? I'm about done with the bottom end of my 224... I knew some material had to go for clearance but man did I have to take more than I thought. Had big problems with the cam(between the lobes as usual and some off the side of the intake lobe) and crank weights clearing the bottom of my piston skirts (went to a tillitson flat top) just have to take a little more off the bottom of the cylinder and should be clear! Thanks for all the videos! Really helps me if I get caught somewhere to comeback and review one of your videos
Thanks Steve! I should have soaked up the spilled gas with a sponge! Those 224 builds do require a lot of clearance work! The parts you choose will definitely determine how much work has to be done. You'll get it, a little time and effort and you'll have a fire breather!
Hey Chris great video. Hope you have a great weekend.
Thanks Frank I appreciate you! I hope you guys have some great races this weekend. I'll be watching your channel for the coverage! 👍
What is the model number on that carburetor? I have been watching all of your videos on the Ducar 212 I just put one in my bt200x. Great videos can't find any builds of these engines or insights this has helped me big time on my build.
Hi Jim! I cannot find a model number on the carb body of these? The link for them lists several model numbers but nothing is on the carburetor body? I will do another video on the Tillotson clone carbs soon. I ordered a set of ID measuring tools to get the exact measurement of the venturi and they have arrived. I'll get the measurements and get the video done ASAP. The first carb I ordered said "FULIN" on it and it had a smaller venturi than the second carb I received that was marked "Tillotson". I'll measure both in the next Tillotson video. Thanks for watching I appreciate you Jim.
That's Awesome Chris! I like the Voice over work Sir!😁
Thanks Dan! Voiceovers help me stay rated G. 🤣
@@KentuckyFriedFixes 🤣🤣
Pull the carb , check the flange on the carb,see the tee tiny hole in the carb flange? Put a small slot in your intake flange to allow the intake pulse to meet that hole. Trim your gasket to allow for the pulse to meet hole ,but be sure the carb seals above the tee tiny hole. Taa daa no pump!
Hi Mark! I am going to try this one again. It has the correct intake and gasket to allow the carb to pulse properly. I think maybe some air got into the line as well. I should have checked further before calling it but I will give it another go. If it will run without a fuel pump I want to make it happen. I was originally thinking that if chainsaws will run without a pump this would too but I think the chainsaw fuel tanks are pressurized with a duck bill valve. Not giving up. Thanks!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes you had it running so, if it works it’s good . I run my carb dry at the end of the day so I have to cover the carb with my hand till it gets wet
@@mark501w Thanks Mark. Good info!
Yes, I used 3 Tillotson carbs on old Vire-6 and made that internal fuel pumps. Successfully.
im gonna try this one i have the vm22 but it needs to be jetted but this stock ducar carb has to go it has barley any top end i only hit 48 on the 13tooth max torque i still have the gov in but its dissabled but the carb only has a 38jet i put in and stock pilot
The Tillotson carbs are great! The only bad thing about them is the price of the intake, unless you make your own, then it's not an issue.
try it without the fuel pump again...except, while blowing on the tank vent line with your mouth, with your free hand with a flat head screw driver, open the strainer cap bolt until you are blowing/leaking fuel from around the strainer cap. then start it.
LOL! That's kinda like a chainsaw with pressurized fuel tank. I'm not sure I can bring myself to go mouth to mouth with the fuel tank. But you are correct, it would probably start as long as the tank is under pressure.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes i do this daily on race karts. all the 2 stroke karts that use pumper carbs will take 10+ sec on the starter to prime. fires right up if force fuel into he strainer with the blowing into the tank vent method.
@@RACE.KART.PRODUCTS I have not given up on trying to get one to run on a 4 stroke without a fuel pump. I know you're a kart racer, and I really do appreciate your input. I watched some of your kart videos and you should post more! I don't know if there will be a difference between running a Tillotson carb on a 2 stroke vs running one on a 4 stroke. Seems like the 2 stroke would cycle the carb diaphragm twice as much as a 4 stroke. I do agree with you 100% that there should not be any air in the fuel strainer area of the carb. Even after I installed the fuel pump, it would not start until I bled the air out of the line. I know it would likely start if I pressurized the fuel tank like a chainsaw. More experiments will be done with these carbs. I'm just getting started! I'm also considering a low psi electric motorcycle fuel pump. I tried an electric pump years ago on a Blockzilla open on methanol but it overpowered the Tilly. I never tried a low psi electric as I couldn't find one then. Thanks for your input and advice. I appreciate you!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes we will do more in the future. The tilly should be all you need. the intake pulse is a bit stronger than a 2t.
I dug 2 old Matag washer out of a ditch to get the ringer tube braises make nice little tables new ones are plastic but ever time find an old one I get to pull steel should make a video sometime
I ended up using a heavy short table. It has a thick wood top like my work table but it's a lot smaller. Can't leave it in the rain though. The plastic folding table is rain friendly, but too light.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes fellow had an old junk front tine tiller you could pull tines off it and make a pretty nice little motor starting cart even rig a battery for electric applications and wheels to roll it around easy
That's a good idea. I've got several old generator frames laying around but those are too close to the ground. I'm allergic to bending at the waist. Surely I can locate an old tiller frame off craigslist or something. Thanks HP!
those pumps are generally very good but they just couldn't cut the mustard on my golf cart , I think because it had to move the fuel so far.
There's not a lot of pressure from those pumps. I had to install 2 on my racing kart years ago. I had tried an electric fuel pump on it but it was too much for the Tillotson carburetor. Thanks for dropping in!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I got a really low pressure pump, I think it was something like 2 or 4 psi.
@@MissouriOldTimer I looked at the motorcycle electric fuel pump online. The price was very reasonable. I'm going to do some more experiments with these Tillotson carburetors. I may try to adapt a fuel pump like you used on your engine swap and see if it will work with the Tillotson!
Interesting video KFF! i was thinking about trying out a Tilly TCT mechanical injection carb, but also guessed it would need a pulse pump even on a gravity fed tank. Ever played with one of those on a 212 clone?
Hi Rick! I've seen the Tillotson injection carbs that look a bit like a regular clone carb but I've not tried those. I prefer the old tried and true Tillotson design, they're about as close as you can get to an injection fuel system IMO. They've always worked great with Methanol and you can soak the cylinder walls if you let a Tilly carb idle. Love them things! I was excited to try these cheap cloned Tilly carbs they're pretty good for the money!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes the one you want to try over a 196cc motor is the TILLY TFB for the extra bore size. I'm with you though... too many gimmicks on the mechanical injection and a need for a pulse pump on clones. I prefer a TILLY PK-3A at altitude right out of the box to keep steady. I ride 8k+ where I am, but these carbs are interesting if at steady lower elevation once tuned. Keep it up. Learning a lot from you.
@@rickwhitfield7617 Thanks Rick! I'll look into those TFB carbs!
Yep.. we agree on gimmicky on the mechanical injection units. That's funny, because I have actually been waiting to buy a Tilly PK 3A... but cant find any in stock. EC CARBURETORS has been out for some time. Do you know of another vendor out there that carries them? I was thinking I could also snag a Tilly PK 2B and simply rejet it down, but that feels like a hassle.
@@rickwhitfield7617 Rick I usually don't mess with the stock style carburetors as there's not a lot of power in those. There are much better performance options but I realize if you're Kart racing or something your choices are kind of limited. If I was going to go with a stock style carb I'd use one from EC for sure though. Those guys are good on carburetors. They don't sponsor the channel or anything but credit given where its due, they know their business.
This is awesome video I see alot of drag mini bike setups with these what I think and not know for sure is the atomizer on top needs the pulse from the pump to work properly it may be flooding it without one just my opinion keep up 🔥vids man.
Hi JK! Good to see you! I had heard guys saying these would run without a fuel pump, I'd never tried one without a pump so I had to give it a try. It didn't work for me without the fuel pump. Thanks!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Yes sir great to hear back from you to.And yea man you'll never know till you try.
I run mine with the stock tank gravity feed. No fuel pump. It runs awesome. The first time starting is a couple pulls. But I cover the throttle body opening with my palm. Pull a couple times and then maybe one or two pulls after that it runs fine.
I may try a pump I have thou and see if it runs any better. I’m 3/4 turn out on the low. 1-1/4 out on the high and pivot arm bent to about half travel and it runs mint. It was just pig rich when I tried it with the pivot arm level and straight. With both the carbs I tried it was the same.
Hi James! I think I had air in the line when I tried to run this one without a pump. I will be revisiting this issue again to see if I can get it to run without the fuel pump. Chainsaws use a pressurized tank to get around this issue.
I was thinking of pressurizing the tank with crank case pressure but it worked fine so I never did. It has crazy midrange power using these carbs. There a little big for a 196/212 I think so there is a down low hesitation because of the large amount of air but as soon as the fuel picks up it’s out of there
Hi James! For low end bog out of the corners you can open the low speed screw a little to give it more fuel during the low speed circuit or add a second pump stack. (I've noticed with stacked pump carbs you can't let it idle though or it will dilute the crankcase oil with Methanol or gas.) Lots of oil changes!
drill holes in that gas cap thats what i did before i ran my dirtbike tank
I've not given up on trying to get the Tillotson to run without a fuel pump. I will try again but may use an electric start for the engine this time.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes good stuff man
@@SoLoCruizer Thank you Sir!
can i get a side of mah with those fixins lol
@@SoLoCruizer 🤣🤣🤣
I want a fuel pump all of a sudden! Great video.
More fuel for the firebreather?
@Kentucky Fried Fixes lol not even sure yet but it's an experience I've got to have! Maybe I'll stick a different gas tank on something....I kinda want to move the one on my cc100x.
Dont those carbs have internal pumps?
Hi MBM! The Tillotson does use a diaphragm pulse to pump fuel internally into the bore of the carb but nothing for external pumping of fuel. I had thought since chainsaws don't have an external fuel pump why would I need one? The problem is chainsaws actually pressurize the fuel tank which creates fuel pressure just like an external fuel pump would. I found that out the first time I pulled a fuel line off a chainsaw carb and it sprayed 2 stroke gas everywhere. Some still say it's possible to run the Tilly without a fuel pump so I may revisit this in the future for another try. Thanks!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes its because i have a hl374a on alky and it had used it on a fuel pump and it was to much gas and thats why i asked thank you for the info🤝🙏
@@martin_gets_sidewayz Were you using an electric fuel pump? I know some have had issues with anything other than the pulse pumps. Too much fuel pressure will blow the needle off the seat and pop the diaphragm. Your pop off may be set too low as well. More fuel pressure requires a higher pop off setting. These things are a bit of trouble to tune but for racing they're the way to go IMO.
Would this carb work well with a 212 with a bid valve head ? Or which one should I buy ? Ty
Hi GB Racing! Here's the venturi size from the "Tillotson Clone Carbs How do they Measure Up? video:
FULIN = .750 venturi with a 1" Throttle Bore ($14.00)
Tillotson "marked" Clone = .785 venturi with a 1" Throttle Bore ($14.00)
HD Golf Cart Replacement Carburetor = .865 venturi with a 1" Throttle Bore (This one was $19.99)
If you have a hot engine, I'd go with the larger venturi carburetor. The link to the $13 carb has sent me two different types of Tillotson clone carbs. I think it must be luck of the draw? The Harley Davidson Golf Cart replacement carburetor was the largest at .865 venturi bore but it was also $19.99 after some shopping around.
The Tillotson carbs are by far my favorite carburetors for performance engines especially on those that are running Methanol. You can stack the fuel pump blocks for more "force fed fuel" and there's no float bowl to splash fuel around in the corners if you're racing.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Ty ! You’re the best !!
👍
where did u get the intake from?
I think that intake came from Turk Brothers but I do buy them from EC carbs too now. EC has the correct air filter adapters for these Tillotson clones. I have another video on the filter adapters on the channel somewhere.