Tigers ARE Domesticated. You'll Agree After Watching This :-)

Some References:
Hartstone‐Rose, Adam, et al. "The cranial morphology of large captive versus wild felids (918.11)." The FASEB Journal 28 (2014): 918-11.
Hartstone-Rose, Adam, et al. "The three-dimensional morphological effects of captivity." PloS one 9.11 (2014): e113437.
Duckler, Geordie L. "An unusual osteological formation in the posterior skulls of captive tigers (Panthera tigris)." Zoo Biology: Published in affiliation with the American Zoo and Aquarium Association 17.2 (1998): 135-142.
Zuccarelli, Micah D. "Comparative morphometric analysis of captive vs. wild African lion (Panthera leo) skulls." Bios 75.4 (2004): 131-138.
Yamaguchi, Nobuyuki, et al. "Brain size of the lion (Panthera leo) and the tiger (P. tigris): implications for intrageneric phylogeny, intraspecific differences and the effects of captivity." Biological Journal of the Linnean Society 98.1 (2009): 85-93.
Lord, Kathryn A., et al. "The history of farm foxes undermines the animal domestication syndrome." Trends in ecology & evolution 35.2 (2020): 125-136.

[@Maspets]

One thing I forgot to mention, tigers and lions also have reduced brain size overall when bred in captivity: "However, captive-bred big cats generally have a reduced brain size compared with that of wild animals, so that an animal's life history and living conditions may affect brain size and, hence, functional or environmental explanations should be considered when linking brain size differences to intraspecific phylogenies."

[@jayexile2487]

It is an absolute shame that you make such high-quality work and only have the number of views and subscribers that you do. I know there would be so many people interested in these videos if they were getting boosted more with the amount and quality of information you pack into them. But it just seems like the TH-cam algorithms always push dumb shit now, anyhow I really pray this channel blows up, please keep up the good work!

[@angelmartin7310]

I'm so glad you said this. I've been saying this! Some of these animals have been captive-bred for so long. Everyone in the reptile trade emphasizes the huge difference in captive-bred reptiles.
What's interesting is the tamest tigers I've known both in person and online have had noticeably wider skulls.

[@coyotemoonc3258]

People seem to think that dogs, cats, horses, and other traditional livestock are the only acceptable domesticated animal because they have been with us for so long. They are here and have always been here. No one alive today remembers when dogs began the process of domestication. Unlike some of these other animals that are only just recently being kept. We're seeing the process for many species from the start. However, to a degree, this is incorrect if we look back many species considered exotic were being kept. Species like antelope and oryx were kept by the Egyptians. Macaws were being kept and traded and even used as sacrificial offerings. Even a bobcat was found with a collar at a native burial site. I think an important takeaway message is that there are different animals all over the world and people will use what's locally available to them. This is why zooarcheology is such an interesting field of study to me and an important tool for fighting anti-captivity legislation.

[@fj852]

Okay, I still disagree but I would just like to ask some respectful questions, rather than get into debates or arguements.
Why the big push to have tigers considered domesticated? What does it achieve? What benefits does it have vs their current status?

[@prickly_procyonids]

There is no benefit in my opinion beyond acknowledging the science, which is important.. People are unfortunately ignorant and think when you say something is domesticated it’ll make a safe pet, which is not always true. But the fear of some really stupid people thinking tigers are magically safe now should not make us ignore reality.

[@fj852]

@@prickly_procyonids Following this how do you draw the line between captive bred (or captive breed in a zoo program for a few generations) and domesticated?

[@Maspets]

@@fj852 I answered that in the comments you deleted, really.

[@Splashstar216]

Respected paleontologist Mike Archer said that endangered species should be allowed as private pets in order to keep their species alive. "Any animal we put our arm around and look after is guaranteed a future. It’s those ones we don’t care about, and we try to have nothing to do with, they’re the ones that are endangered.” -Mike Archer
Knowing this fact that they're domesticated, tigers should be legal pets is all, ESPECIALLY becos they're endangered. Of course not everyone should have them, but I feel like most people wouldn't even want to. And only 0.3% of tigers have attacked their owners (probably bc they're domesticated), whereas 1.1% of dogs have attacked someone (most of the time it's a stranger and not their owners obvs-- but a death is a death).

[@slaughterhater]

Can you do a video on a law being proposed that would make it illegal to keep and breed elephants in captivity in New York City? A law that would have a negative impact on the Bronx Zoo?

[@Maspets]

I'm shocked it was legal in NYC? They have literally everything banned, pythons, iguanas, sugar gliders, ferrets...but not elephants?? No one keeps elephants except AZA zoos and maybe traveling circuses that they probably already banned. I haven't read the bill, but I can assure you the Bronx Zoo will be exempted no matter what.

[@slaughterhater]

Yeah, I don’t think that law is going to pass. I think our government has more important issues to deal with than zoo animals. The Nonhuman Rights Project is just trying to find a way to get what they want.

[@prickly_procyonids]

Great video. It sucks that even so much as implying tigers are domesticated will just immediately lose you any debate though because your opponent will just laugh in your face at the absurdity.

[@Maspets]

Did that happen to you?

[@tevinwoods8867]

@@MaspetsI’d wager it probably did happen to him or her.

[@VariantAEC]

​@@Maspets
It's happening to you right now.
Captive ≠ domesticated
I will agree with a small point you made in the video and even expand on it by saying that any animal can be domesticated. This is not the same as saying they are domesticated from birth. I'd argue no animal (not even humans) are domesticated by nature.
Domesticated definition (sense/s most applicable to this video bolded)
*1 adapted over time (as by selective breeding) from a wild or natural state to life in close association with and to the benefit of humans*
*2 made fit for domestic life : adapted to life in a household*
3 brought to the level of ordinary people (as by being expressed in understandable terms)
Domesticated animals are literally pets, which will not generally speaking attack another person as they are bred and raised to be around humans for our benefit. Domesticated for companionship or to do things humans can not like to sniff out drugs.
Captive definition (sense/s most applicable to this video bolded)
1 a taken and held as or as if a prisoner of war
*1 b1 kept within bounds - CONFINED*
*1 b2 of or relating to captive animals - captive breeding*
2 held under control of another but having the appearance of independence | especially owned or controlled by another concern and operated for its needs rather than for an open market a captive mine
3 being such involuntarily because of a situation that makes free choice or departure difficult
You might have noticed that good zoos trying to breed animals such as tigers are doing so not for humans, but so they can be returned to the wild. Conservation in these cases does require that we try to maintain a living situation that is as close to nature that we can replicate for the animals in captivity so that the species doesn't go extinct. The plan in these cases is not to domesticate the animal such as a tiger for use in our daily lives.
That is all the distinction is.
In the end... you are wrong.
100% wrong.

[@Maspets]

@@VariantAEC You don't even deserve a reply other than me calling you names and telling you to get lost. You did your premature victory lap without addressing a single point I've made in this video and I'm tired of repeating myself.
No, not all animals can be domesticated. Some do not survive in captivity and/or prefer to breed away from humans. Your definitions of domestication are NOT correct unless you don't believe that dogs and cats are domesticated because over 80% of them are not selectively bred. Not once did I say that holding animals captive domesticates them, I discussed at length the generations of animals in captivity lead to genetic and epigenetic changes that you conveniently choose to ignore. They are not "literally pets" that never attack, fool. So stop wasting my time with your bad faith arguments.