Non-Euclidean 3D Modeling - Hyperbolica Devlog #5
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- Modeling 3D geometry for non-euclidean spaces presents some real challenges! To explain how we accomplished this is the artist himself; João Kalva. This is the 5th Hyperbolica Devlog and my first video with a guest speaker. To catch-up from the beginning, you should start here: • Non-Euclidean Geometry...
Hyperbolica on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/12...
Trailer: • Hyperbolica: A Non-Euc...
Discord Server: / discord
Merch: crowdmade.com/collections/cod...
00:00 - Introduction
00:44 - Horizontal Distortion
01:30 - Vertical Distortion
02:30 - Geometry
03:38 - Color
04:35 - Why Low Poly
04:52 - Conclusion
João Kalva
ArtStation: www.artstation.com/joaokalva
TH-cam [Portuguese]: / @joaokalva5573
If you like the things I do and want to support the channel:
/ codeparade
ko-fi.com/codeparade
Music By Phil K.
willcomposeforfood.com/
"So, how big do you want the model to be?"
"Infinitely big, but, like, also infinitely small depending on how you look at it."
What is this, a centre for ants??
CodeParade: "Ok no problem"
@@proggigs Yes, and elephants.
@@stertheblur aleph ants
"So, how big do you want the model to be?"
"Yes, but actually no"
oh my god playing this in vr is going to be terrifying I can't wait
Don't
Do it
i dont think it will work
never mind just finished video, ignore me
Agreed
I dont know why, but I find it so fascinating how when you get closer to objects in this game, it doesnt look like you're actually getting closer, but rather just zooming in.
Perhaps because moving a certain distance scales all objects by the same amount, assuming that they are sufficiently far away.
That's how getting close to objects normally works, it's just that the speed at which you "zoom in" as you move is much faster in hyperbolic space.
@@Gaswafers Not quiet. In euclidian space, the apparent size of close objects change much faster than those farther away from you with the size change approaching zero as the distance approaches infinity.
Meanwhile, in hyperbolic space, walking some distance d towards some objects will always double their apparent size no matter how far away they are, as long as they are sufficiently far away.
What d is depends on how hyperbolic the space is.
The reason that objects need to be sufficiently faraway is because hyperbolic space acts like euclidian space on small scales.
Example:
For small enough circles, the area is the familiar pi*r^2. However, as the radius gets bigger, it becomes proportional to e^(2r).
@@bengineer8 Yeah.. I have no idea at all what that math stuff you said was.
That building looks really cool-HOLY CRAP WE ARE SO HIGH WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN??
Had the same reaction. Went from "oh, so basically tall objects just look really short then? meh..." to "wait- WOAH don't look down!!"
*okay now play it in VR.*
@@MandrakeGuy oh boi
**holds up gun** “Always has been.
Yeah. my mind got blown a bit by that.
Burj Khalifa: Oh? you're approaching me?
*reveals true power*
HOW THE FUCK HAS NO ONE REPLIED??
@@BRAVETOASTA because it's not that interesting or funny
I love this
People like these amaze me. Being able to take immense artistic talent and translate that to an unintuitive environment is truly impressive. Really disproves the idea that there are only “math people” and “art people.”
sometimes, the two are one and the same, and when that happens, you get amazing results
People who are both math people and art people are usually my favourite people :)
@@cerebralm I'm one of those people! I was formally trained as a mathematician, but I've been an artist my whole life. Just this month I got into unity and game dev. I made a video recently on my channel about it, if you're interested :)
@@seraaron subbed :)
Well, some areas of math literally overlap with art.
While I don't understand every concept presented, I find it fascinating how non-euclidean geometry can alter perspectives
This reminds me about how Disneyland tricks you into thinking their park is larger than it actually is.
@@theodoreglenn8230 How do they do it?
@@Kokurorokuko The top of the Castle is way way smaller than the top. Every story of their buildings are about 3/4 the size of the story below.
"No PBR work flow... YET"
Can't imagine how a non-euclidean world might look if it was photo real...
i imagine it would fall straight into the uncanny valley
@@sighmon5640 Yes I have the same intriguing fear
It might be easier to get hyperbolic projections to work in raytracing or raymarching, if anything, because you wouldn't have to deal with as many hardcoded assumptions coming from the GPUs' fixed-function rasterizers. But you'd need to implement that raytracing/raymarching shader, you probably wouldn't be able to use something like RTX for this.
Also, I remember having the 'camera turns upside down when rotating' issue in my earliest days of attempting to make a 3D game. I probably messed up the Quaternions the engine expected and treated them like Euler rotation or something, Idk.
Mm. Technically the world you live on is non-euclidean. The curvature just isn't incredibly noticable.
"Wake up honey, there's a new Hyperbolica Devlog video!"
Im going to love buying this for vr and then immediately throwing up.
You aren't making full use of your headset if you don't throw up at least once a week
@@OrangeC7 Laughs I’m not getting motion sick easily.
Sempre legal achar um brasileiro participando de um projeto massa como esse. Parabéns João
de fato, o projeto é incrivel e até agora eu não fazia idéia que tinhamos um br por trás, valeu, joão!
Pensei a mesma coisa
Единственное, что я понял - Джоао либо из Испании, либо из латинской Америки.
@@user-ns5di9on9n Бразильский!
Ele falou o nome arrepiei
AIGHT HOLD UP... did my mans just say this is going to run IN VR!? Like damn now I want to go out and buy a VR so I can throw up in it.
"mans"
my guess is that it won't run on standalones like quest, and you'll have to get a regular one that hooks up to a pc
@@MuffinTastic quest can play pc vr games though with virtual desktop or via cable if you also have a pc with the game
It's possible it won't be quite as disorienting as one would think. Apparently, when seeing a hyperbolic space in VR, because parallel lines diverge it causes everything to appear much closer than it really is. Although, I haven't been able to witness this effect firsthand because I haven't been able to find any demos that I can try out with my VR headset.
i love when i find out by accident that there's a Brazilian artist behind a project i like.
Continua mandando bem, João! Estou super animado pra Hyperbolica
This kind of work must be one hell of a thing to put in a portfolio.
every still frame of this game looks like a flat drawing, ironically
Yep. It's the same reason walking in hyperbolic space looks like zooming - there's no parallax in hyperbolic space
I experienced none of these. It looks fine to me. Depth looks normal, movement looks normal.
@@ynntari2775 not a criticism. I just think it looks flat somehow. Still very freaking cool
Oh no, I'm not responding to a criticism, I'm just pointing out our perceptions appear to work differently, it just amazed me. It seems my brain is used to interprete hyperbolic spaces.
@@MrFram well, yes, and this since this is a not so distorted one, in some highly distorted hyperbolic spaces maybe it even has inverted paralax, the far away things are, the faster they move
Imagine getting Isekai'd in a Hyperbolic world
Props to the mangaka that takes up that challenge.
you'd just immediately get lost if the curvature is worth noticing lol
What's that?
Your House.
Ok, looks strange. And what about this?
NOOOO, don't go in the forbidden corner.
If it’s an Isekai, what kind of overpowered abilities are you going to get?
@@Kipwich Lots of small bone fractures when you arrive, and a poor sense of direction. :-)
I have considered the situation before and decided the best explanation to give people I'd meet is that I come from a very small universe where everything is tiny, and the change of size injured me because obviously (in hyperbolic geometry) a small thing cannot be scaled up without being slightly distorted.
I am HYPER for Hyperbolica >:).
It was really cool to hear from João! Always interesting to see how hyperbolic space throws traditional game dev techniques on their head.
The most challenging thing in HyperRogue is procedural generation. The space grows exponentially, so you cannot just create the whole world (of size 10^7000), because it will not fit in the memory. We also had to use unique algorithms, and a completely different game design which makes sense for such a world. And all this work is basically invisible for the typical player. Difficult things seem easy, easy things seem difficult. (It seems Hyperbolica does not go in the direction of lazy procedural generation.)
oohhh, I've been waiting to see this! Great Modelling João!
Thank you!
The low-poly art style is unique and cute and I am happy you guys settled on it. My PC has an old AMD Radeon graphics card and most Steam games can't run. Hopefully, since I pre-ordered this game on Steam, I will be able to have it run at 60 FPS. Since Unity is the primary game engine, it should automatically optimize all of the shaders. Hope your game will do well and get a lot of sales!
I can't wait for this. It's so interesting to hear about.
How it feels when you have 120 fov:
The true Quake Pro experience.
AH CAN SEH FOR FOOKIN MIYLES
how about infinite fov?
infinity*infinity
vineM8
Big portuguese hug to João! Happy to see PT gamedevs!
Always nice to see talented artists go out of their comfort zone to work on things like this, huge props to João!
There he does it again.
My brain got stretched and squished in order to understand everything :O
It's amazing that you can still immediately see that this is Gauss in that painting, even though it's just a couple pixels.
This type of game devs make psychodelic trips real
Now I can finally experience what it feels like being a main character in H.P Lovecraft's stories
don't google Lovecraft's cat name
@@bettercalldelta is it CAThulu?
@@nicefloweytheoverseer7632 no it's the n-word
The animation explaining the UV map and the UV unwrap is amazing
This kind of visual effects would be complemented super well by A Beginner's Guide style storytelling.
You walk away from a small object, and it gets lost in the fog. Later, when you're far away, the fog clears up to reveal it surrounding the entire world around you.
You climb a ascending stair, up and up, and when you look back down, the ground is so far away you can't even see.
Things like that feel like some kind of metaphor.
Yes!
A really nice move putting a picture of Carl Friedrich Gauß in such a space, chapeau!
Y'all don't rush this game. I want your best work. That said, super excited to play it!
If I played this game I would be like "Wow, how they did this? I dont understand anything"
But we have these incredible explanation videos, so now im like "Wow, how they did this? I dont understand anything"
With all that stupidity in the world now, its super relieving to watch and listen to someone smarter than me. Amazing! Looking forward to trying out the game :)
as a 3D environment artist this is really interesting!!! thanks so much, I would love to see more dev logs about the art some time, keep up the amazing work you too. also the texturing workflow is genius.
I love this so very much ... it is so fascinating to see the distortions and how everything is so relative
Finally we can see R'leyh as it truly looks.
This game is gonna be so disorienting, but it looks so interesting and cool.
Those are some very interesting details. I can't even imagine the complexity of trying to add things like clouds or birds without defaulting to a classic sky map with its own rules. What you have done is really incredible! I wish you the best of luck and will be looking forward to the future.
I really like all those unique challenges that emerged from it
It's things you normally take for granted, for which you now had to find a new way to handle
This was the best explanation of UV mapping i've ever seen. Its looks like you squished an object, dropped it into a pool of paint, pulled up and unsquished it.
Really like that tip of using a single image texture for a region/level/model with different gradients, might adopt that idea
The outro scene makes me want a hyperbolic maze game. Where everything looks fairly normal in 3D space, but the pathing doesn't line up to Euclidian space, where the hyperbolic mapping is so subtle it's almost not noticeable without prior knowledge of the game being in hyperbolic space.
Tessellation can be used to uniformly address the geometry matching issue, controlling the subdivision amount with the norm of the distortion tensor (presumably max norm). OpenGL version 4.0 nicely supports it, it increases time spent on the vertex stage, but can be controlled to only tesselate highly distorted areas.
Oh, man, hyperbolic maze in VR is going to be a wonderful nightmare
"Why are you cutting up that paper, folding more paper, and taping it into the cuts?"
"I need to make a map where four 90° turns aren't enough to get back to the start"
Ah yes, the hypersian rug.
Your voice + peaking on 3 tabs = ≈W E I R D≈
Nevermind it's trippy sober too lol
This is looking great! Can't wait for the release
I am living for these Hyperbolica Devlog videos. And getting a dive into the 3D modeling aspect of things is even cooler!
It's awesome to see more into how this works, and it's also cool to see more environment sneak peeks!
your videos are always so good. keep is up and i can't wait for the game to be done.
Very good explanation, wish you guys all the best!
This looks so cool I really hope this catches on
Absolutely incredible. Keep it up!
Some games make you feel normal when traveling through portals, this game makes traveling normally feel like traveling in a portal
With every update I get more certain that, once this dropps, you will never have to worry about money for the rest of your life. Take your time, we're all very much hyped to enjoy hyperbolica
I love these videos and your channel!
YES.
I WAS SO HOPING THIS WOULD BE VR-COMPATIBLE.
YES.
THANK YOU.
YES.
Me: I like your funny words magic man
Lovefull work guys!
The jungle labyrinth is an excellent idea imo
Epic, these devlogs are nice
OMG it's looking great!
I was gonna say: "imagine this in VR"
Seems like we won't have to imagine :)
You guys rock!
The reaction videos will be priceless.
That last forest maze tiles are exactly the confusing yet predictible stuff i hope for
All this has made me realize that a Hyperbolic/Non-Euclidian Horror Game would be awesome.
So basically, hyperbolic space is trippy AF and completely changes all the typical rules for games.
I really look forward to playing this game and I just discovered your channel 10 minutes ago. It looks amazing so far!!
It's always interesting to me how walking while looking at the horizon looks more like zooming in than moving toward it, since horizontal lengths grow exponentially the farther they are away from you
Caraca mano, eu realmente não esperava um br aqui. Parabens pelo trabalho Jão
New videoooo!! Can't wait to see the game
The fact you guys can pull this off is mind-blowing
Gosh, I cannot wait for this to release!
This is so state of the art, I love it!
Awesome! Glad to hear the voice of the artist working on this too.
Continue. Your team is the best 🙌🙌💯
Nicely done Video!
Muito bom, muito informativo, excelente conteúdo.
This is definitly a game i will buy and also love while playing. Incredible Stuff you have done there. :D
wow this is absolutely amazing!
Hooray new video :D
Universe: You get 3 dimensions, plus time.
CodeParade: lol no
well, hyperbolic space still only gets 3 dimensions of space and one of time, the difference is that the space is bent in an extra dimension.
@@ynntari2775 there is no extra dimension. The space itself is curved, much like the area around a black hole.
@@ynntari2775 so 3 dimensions of space, 1 of time, and 1 of curvature?(to bend spacetime)
That technique with the versatile texture is amazing!
This is so cool!!
The hyperbolic dining hall area is really unsettling
tbh. I didnt like his voice at first, but over the course of the video it grew on me.
Great work!
This games just keeps on looking better and better! Looking forward to release!
Me: I do not need a VR system
Hyperbolica is released on VR in steam
Me to steam: Shut up and take my money
these devlogs are fascinating
Yup, I already know this is going to be such a great game
So excited for this game
Meu Deus, é um brasileiro modelando pro Hyperbolica?!?!? QUE SURPRESA MARAVILHOSA!
Muito bom ver brasileiros ganhando destaque em projetos como esse, ótimo trabalho joão!!!
Wake up babe, new Hyperbolica devlog just dropped
This will be such a unique and amazing experience when it comes out
I mostly have no idea what is happening in these devlogs but I still enjoy them and I'm exited for the game!
The VR looks incredible!
Love the green sky in the forest.
Oh my god! It is so good to actually see another brazilian doing great projects like these ones
So cool an actually innovative video game!
I was thinking, man this would be cool in vr, and then I was told it is! Even more exciting than before.