says "you've got to build scenery the leads the player to the right path" and does the literal polar opposite with fake paths and scenery that leads them to it. i feel so redeemed about NOT A SINGLE PERSON getting the correct path without help, because that's exactly what i was screaming at the screen.
i start is the only part that is not like that. you can literally see a checkpoint right on the wood section. most people that have any use of their brain would jump to that after the first drive into the water.
Seeing the part where he built the map that first jump and the split wood path I was like "they're not gonna know where to go" and I was right. Bro needs more signs...
yeah, but signs will just tell them that is the way to go. With the same section having 2 path with one meant for each lap, a sign is just going to annoy people too. Ideally the path should be easily determined for the most basic run. the turn skip and jump on the second lap should be discoverable, but not really be expected.
@@ck7802 Yeah so there should have been a "turn right" sign there, and people could discover the intentional shortcut later. The shortcut itself is also super unintuitive because the road just goes way past where you're supposed to jump and into nowhere.
@@aprophetofrng9821 True, maybe like a stadium car sign with arrow right would be nice to have. But its actually kinda funny to see how everyone just drives into the "water"
@@xaius4348Because they were focused on driving. When you drive, you focus on what’s ahead and not the scenery. I know because I did the exact same thing when I discovered the map 😅
It was a neat idea and decent route, but the signage was very lacking. If you're holding right sure you get a fling to the right, but the straight path is visible before you hit the wood and the right-hand path is barely visible and easily mistakable for scenery, so everyone stopped holding right before the wood. Then there's the fact that while not the fastest both paths were both possible with either car, meaning someone could complete the map without knowing the gimmick. If the paths both had something that made them impossible or extremely difficult with the wrong car it may have been more clear that it was 1 path for each. It'd be interesting to revisit this concept, but make there be much more significant differences between snow car and stadium car routes.
Did you play the streamer campaign? One of the other maps had that. There were thin plastic walls that only the snowcar could fit between, so the multilap was force separated between the cars and it was impossible to take the wrong route with the wrong car. It was definitely a more intuitive design than Wirtual's map
i think this was very apparent and wirtual has learned from this. either way, he doesn't have much experience in mapping and this was just showcasing the best map he's made so far :)
some things I think might've helped with the areas where people struggled (while trying to keep the route the same) first, on the wooden bridge section that everyone got stuck on, I'd put some kinda barrier up early on so you can't keep going without hitting a literal wall. You could either make it look like a construction barrier, or those temporary concrete barriers as if they were put up specifically for the race. You could also build in some scenery to try and highlight the path going off to the right, possibly making use of lighting and arches to draw your eye that direction. If you made the forest section a bit thicker and had some larger trees, you could make them cast shadows on the left side of the wooden landing to help draw your eye more to the right. Maybe a tunnel that goes over it so that when you see it, it's immediately obvious that there's a path over that direction. I'd also try to find a way to help indicate the bridge as more of a shortcut than the main path. Second, on that very first jump of the map, with a jump that requires you to do more than a 90 degree turn off of it like that, you need some serious signage to indicate that. I'd also consider changing the section before the part you jump on to start lower and go up, that way you can see the top part of the path at the very start to make it obvious that it's there. Also, angling the jump to be slightly slanted to the left would really help to naturally guide players to jump towards the main road, rather than into the abyss. Unfortunately though, both of those issues are things that are easy to overlook when building, which is why playtesting is extremely important. When making anything, you get blind to the problems that might be glaring to others, so outside perspectives are always helpful. This doesn't just go for map making, but for any creative process, especially in game design. Valve does *rigorous* playtesting for their games, and it shows with the quality and polish that they have
when i looked him playing the map without scenery i found two points that could be confusing (the left jump on the start and that hard right turn) and well... everyone were confused at these two points xD
I really like one, despite (yet also because of) the many baits. And your use of feudal Japan's aesthetics is perfectly complimented by the use of the superior surface type: wood. This track more-or-less makes my corner-only bobsled map look like nothing (but I'm okay with that because I'm a rookie and you're a pro).
I literally didn't know about the right path before watching Wirtual and Scrapie's videos on it, I was jumping both laps. Very pretty map, though, and definitely varied.
I liked the map too, Wirtual, I didn't get a good time but of all the streamer maps it feels the most reasonable honestly. 4 of the 10 I couldn't even finish.
holy shit i didnt even know wirtual made this until now, ive seen it on someones stream, i believe it was scrapie, and i genuinely thought this was made by a full time mapper, props to wirtual for this masterclass
It's funny hearing virtual say that maps should signpost their turns, when it seems to me like trackmania custom maps are generally less intuitive and signposted than maps from any other racing game lol
That's the point of Trackmania. The more hate your creation evokes during the learning curve the more enjoyable it is to finally drive this through as intended.
Coming from the Elasto Mania community, where "routing" is half the fun of figuring out how to get the best time in a level, I really liked that the path in Wirtual's map isn't obvious. It forces you to actually think about what you're doing. Trackmania map conventions are always so linear and telegraphed, it gets a bit samey.
Cool map but you definitely need more signs and to make it clearer where to go. Also if they go the wrong path and jump over the little bridge you should have put a wall with a laughing face on it or something to clearly show that they went the wrong way
Do any of the others besides scrapie have youtubes they upload highlights to from their twitch streams? Description only has their twitch's which i doubt still have the vods from the discovery up, would love to see how they handled some of the other maps.
I think that it may have been intentionally tricky, but that also allows the player to see a few more things about the new weird blocks, or just annoy the players for fun
I would really appreciate your vote in the Streamer Awards! thestreamerawards.com/vote
you're so true
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@WirtualTV I spent like 3 hours trying to finish the snow car part where you jump at 1:52, then gave up. The pain you caused me.
@@nebula_rl hahahaha$
says "you've got to build scenery the leads the player to the right path" and does the literal polar opposite with fake paths and scenery that leads them to it. i feel so redeemed about NOT A SINGLE PERSON getting the correct path without help, because that's exactly what i was screaming at the screen.
honestly, skill issue
Mad coz bad @@Ariel-_
@@Eridu Mald coz bald.
i start is the only part that is not like that. you can literally see a checkpoint right on the wood section. most people that have any use of their brain would jump to that after the first drive into the water.
yes i dont understand him, thats LITERALLY what he SAID
Seeing the part where he built the map that first jump and the split wood path I was like "they're not gonna know where to go" and I was right. Bro needs more signs...
yeah, but signs will just tell them that is the way to go. With the same section having 2 path with one meant for each lap, a sign is just going to annoy people too. Ideally the path should be easily determined for the most basic run. the turn skip and jump on the second lap should be discoverable, but not really be expected.
Yeah none of the transitions felt natural on this map
@@ck7802 Yeah so there should have been a "turn right" sign there, and people could discover the intentional shortcut later. The shortcut itself is also super unintuitive because the road just goes way past where you're supposed to jump and into nowhere.
I think its more fun this way
But content
love how confident spammie was about finding the 'shortcut'
LOL I was cringing so much from that.
I love how they're completely confused about that wooden bridge 😂
To be fair, there wasn't any signs. And you couldn't see the turn unless you started turning right.
@@aprophetofrng9821 True, maybe like a stadium car sign with arrow right would be nice to have. But its actually kinda funny to see how everyone just drives into the "water"
@@aprophetofrng9821 Maybe if there was a giant checkpoint right where you are pointing during the turn, idk how they missed that XD
@@xaius4348Because they were focused on driving. When you drive, you focus on what’s ahead and not the scenery. I know because I did the exact same thing when I discovered the map 😅
The moment I saw the original pre-scenery walkthrough, I was like 'surely he's going to make the routing a bit more obvious with signs'... and nope.
the way granady switched up from hating on the map to loving it the moment he realized it had snow car is really funny
Granady always starts hating the map and then grows to like it 😆
Everyone in shambles for the tight wood turn 🤣
and The Hole
Massa shamelessly roasted wirt's map 💀
And then guessed SbVille made it
Wirt: hey guys it's pretty late in Norway rn
Also Wirt: Not actually in Norway
What do you mean? He's clearly on the tropical part of Norway! Don't spread misinformation!
Balloons, unclear path, no signs, holes in the road: boxes checked, Wirtual map confirmed ;-)
It was a neat idea and decent route, but the signage was very lacking. If you're holding right sure you get a fling to the right, but the straight path is visible before you hit the wood and the right-hand path is barely visible and easily mistakable for scenery, so everyone stopped holding right before the wood. Then there's the fact that while not the fastest both paths were both possible with either car, meaning someone could complete the map without knowing the gimmick. If the paths both had something that made them impossible or extremely difficult with the wrong car it may have been more clear that it was 1 path for each. It'd be interesting to revisit this concept, but make there be much more significant differences between snow car and stadium car routes.
Did you play the streamer campaign? One of the other maps had that. There were thin plastic walls that only the snowcar could fit between, so the multilap was force separated between the cars and it was impossible to take the wrong route with the wrong car. It was definitely a more intuitive design than Wirtual's map
i think this was very apparent and wirtual has learned from this. either way, he doesn't have much experience in mapping and this was just showcasing the best map he's made so far :)
ain’t readin allat
@@kiaragarcia1998 I imagine you sending this in a letter to a book author.
@@41-Haiku tbh I imagine I would 💀💀
There is literally no Wirtual map without balloons :D
This map is came out really beautiful! Was fun to watch other streamers drive it
Seems like everyone had an awful time learning the map, but started enjoying it once they figured out the route.
which in my book is often, read almost always, the case for good maps!
@@SRNT_SEwhen you need to figure out the route for 10 minutes it's definitely not a good map
@@mmmdawe You spent 10 minutes to learn this route? Or are you talking in general?
@@marcsoler6187 in general, assuming from video
It took me forever to find the route and I thought I was a dumbass, so seeing the pros all miss it too makes me feel better about myself lol
7:58 oh so thats why its called fishing town
Ohhh, I get it. There’s so much bait everywhere because it’s a fishing town.
Oh that's excellent, nicely done 😂
straightaway I knew people would get lost at that wood hard-right after the drift
8:20
"I think it's SBVille"
*it's SBVille's original teacher*
That's gotta hurt, wirtual XD.
Scrapies face at 11:20 is absolutely priceless 😭😭
fishing town is so subtle but so good. That hole was like the icing on the cake too. well done vert
7:55 I mean Scrapie, you gotta remember that Wirtual IS a Master baiter
some things I think might've helped with the areas where people struggled (while trying to keep the route the same)
first, on the wooden bridge section that everyone got stuck on, I'd put some kinda barrier up early on so you can't keep going without hitting a literal wall. You could either make it look like a construction barrier, or those temporary concrete barriers as if they were put up specifically for the race. You could also build in some scenery to try and highlight the path going off to the right, possibly making use of lighting and arches to draw your eye that direction. If you made the forest section a bit thicker and had some larger trees, you could make them cast shadows on the left side of the wooden landing to help draw your eye more to the right. Maybe a tunnel that goes over it so that when you see it, it's immediately obvious that there's a path over that direction. I'd also try to find a way to help indicate the bridge as more of a shortcut than the main path. Second, on that very first jump of the map, with a jump that requires you to do more than a 90 degree turn off of it like that, you need some serious signage to indicate that. I'd also consider changing the section before the part you jump on to start lower and go up, that way you can see the top part of the path at the very start to make it obvious that it's there. Also, angling the jump to be slightly slanted to the left would really help to naturally guide players to jump towards the main road, rather than into the abyss. Unfortunately though, both of those issues are things that are easy to overlook when building, which is why playtesting is extremely important. When making anything, you get blind to the problems that might be glaring to others, so outside perspectives are always helpful. This doesn't just go for map making, but for any creative process, especially in game design. Valve does *rigorous* playtesting for their games, and it shows with the quality and polish that they have
I remember watching the streamer campaign discovery back in the good old days
As a vod frog, it was cool to put faces and voices to the names I’m always hearing about in CoTD vods
when i first played this map it made me feel bad at routing. seeing all these other people struggle the same exact way makes me feel better lol
when i looked him playing the map without scenery i found two points that could be confusing (the left jump on the start and that hard right turn) and well... everyone were confused at these two points xD
One of the best videos I seen from you so far. I like it when you make a map and have others react.
This entire video was just a compilation of "streamer doesn't know".
Watching mudda make fun of chat for giving him the correct path was golden
Watching everyone go the wrong way on Wirtual's map really makes me appreciate Wirt's ability to find the correct path in his videos.
This is what happens when you wait until the last minute and don't have anyone test your level 🤦♂️
Wirtual went from trackmania to asmr.
This is why game designers have a QA team lol
this is the most wirtual map that's ever wirtualed
I would've loved to see Wirtual's reaction to everyone not finding the path
I love it, I actually like the lack of signage as it makes everyone have to work for the W
Love to see these kinds of videos, keep up the good work Wirtual!
I really like one, despite (yet also because of) the many baits. And your use of feudal Japan's aesthetics is perfectly complimented by the use of the superior surface type: wood. This track more-or-less makes my corner-only bobsled map look like nothing (but I'm okay with that because I'm a rookie and you're a pro).
"Oh look it didn't work, let me do the same thing again 100 times."
I like the route, I guess better signage would be something to consider for future maps
"It's pretty late in Norway right now"
Nice try, we all know you're dodging taxes in Malta. It's undeniable
i feel like if this was someone else’s map, that would be one of wirtuals favorites maps
I literally didn't know about the right path before watching Wirtual and Scrapie's videos on it, I was jumping both laps. Very pretty map, though, and definitely varied.
Great video with the different perspectives.
I liked the map too, Wirtual, I didn't get a good time but of all the streamer maps it feels the most reasonable honestly. 4 of the 10 I couldn't even finish.
This was hilarious watching them take so long to figure it out.
Probably means you were lacking a couple of signs though
yeah the signage was awful here
Massa having no chill, as usual lol
I had such a hard time reading this map, and im so glad i wasnt alone :D
buckley totally trolled wirt letting him title the video that lol
holy shit i didnt even know wirtual made this until now, ive seen it on someones stream, i believe it was scrapie, and i genuinely thought this was made by a full time mapper, props to wirtual for this masterclass
Masterclass huh
I'd say its a masterclass for someone that hasnt mapped before @@nukewurld
@@shotdown5191 interesting logic
The respawn trap was an interesting move
Wirtual: you go there, then you jump there, turn here and then go there - easy, you see
Everybody else: WHERE IS THE TRACK!?!?!?!?!
:)
Mudda had me laughing my ass off, never knew he was so funny lol
Ah, the reactions are so good, tho this is what it's like for me when I play any map, "everything is a bait !?" bahaha
I remember not being able to finish this map when I picked up the game again lol
Great map! Also learned the value of early playtesting haha
I’m starting to understand the title now lol
I mean its a pretty good map and is fun, the path isn't labeled too well. But its still a fun one, good job.
One lesson Wirtual should learn from this experience...
ARROWS ARE CRUCIAL lmao
Wirl pls make this a series i like it and plss make the building process of the map longer
has there ever been a wirtual map without an ocean being part of the scenery?
It's very easy to identify Wirtual map he always places bunch of balloons around
Hey I played this map too! I feel less bad about spending 2 minutes trying to find the correct route after seeing this video 😂
Nice compilation of their reactions
Its was pretty unusual to hear your voice but not see your face, however what a beautiful map🥹
Wirtual was on the cusp of greatness, and then he forgot to put arrows on two corners and ruined the whole map because of it
It's funny hearing virtual say that maps should signpost their turns, when it seems to me like trackmania custom maps are generally less intuitive and signposted than maps from any other racing game lol
"I think this is my most impressive map I've made, I'm really proud of it"
Everybody hates it 😢
Thats his favorite part
That's the point of Trackmania. The more hate your creation evokes during the learning curve the more enjoyable it is to finally drive this through as intended.
Beginning of the Video reminds me of Bob Ross painting sooooo much 😅
Coming from the Elasto Mania community, where "routing" is half the fun of figuring out how to get the best time in a level, I really liked that the path in Wirtual's map isn't obvious. It forces you to actually think about what you're doing. Trackmania map conventions are always so linear and telegraphed, it gets a bit samey.
These reactions are SOO good lmao
The janky box car is so cute
Cool map but you definitely need more signs and to make it clearer where to go. Also if they go the wrong path and jump over the little bridge you should have put a wall with a laughing face on it or something to clearly show that they went the wrong way
The return of the master baiter
No wirtual map without the baloons
"It's my best map ever"
*everyone hates it*
The forest is beautiful, you're right to be proud!
I actually feel insulted for Ville. Ville would never build something like this, mosso guy 😂
That bridge jump/turn was the straw that made me give up on, and hate the whole campaign. Thanks!
Gps and arrows would have saved this map
there was gps
@@sketch8432”have saved”; not “could’ve saved”
both are there. its just that the tight wooden turn wasnt clear enough without any signage
I liked playing it, I think it was definitely one of the best of the lot
“In norway”
Where does he actually live now?
@@Flopsaurus "Norway"
Wirtual is never allowed to complain about signs again after this... ++ tho
Tree scenery looks great
Lars was traumatised
Trackmania players when there isn't a sign to show them where to go:
* Brain shut down *
Its called fishing town cause of the baits 😮
Ive seen this somewhere. Was it with Anna C?
In the fishing village EVERYTHING is bait.
ong they be trolling tho wth how did noone find the way
Do any of the others besides scrapie have youtubes they upload highlights to from their twitch streams? Description only has their twitch's which i doubt still have the vods from the discovery up, would love to see how they handled some of the other maps.
I know Granady has one
Watching thus makes me feel less stupid
I am definitely more of a mapper.. there is so much that I would do.
Putting one hundred clips together in NON-chronological order....tests the viewer, without benefit.
cant believe theres not even a pyramid smh
Looks fun to drive, but atrocious to discover.
Hi wirtual, btw, where you got that discord merch lol?
wasnt this four months ago? the new car and streamer campaign are gonna drop very soon...
11:00-11:03 should be a mp3 clip
so in short: a couple of readability issues with the path for first runs but otherwise well received
i don tplay this game, and confused, is it supposed to be baity and tricky for the first lap?
Usually, no. He just did not sign very well.
Yeah looks like it was unintentionally hard to follow
I think that it may have been intentionally tricky, but that also allows the player to see a few more things about the new weird blocks, or just annoy the players for fun