Thank you for this video. Grabbing a EF500 or EF600 then. Whichever has smoother treble, probably the EF600 then. Really like the clean design too. Replacing my K9 Pro (AKM), I wanted to try HE6SE and if Midgard would get shouty and lack bass then that’s a no no. I already got Asgard 3, so EF400 would be more of the same, but worse sonic performance, just better amplification. So it was between the EF500 and EF600.
I tried the EF500 yesterday with my 6XX and was more than impressed. I don't have any experience with $1000+ amplifiers but this the best I have heard them sound outside of OTL amps. The effect was similar, bass and treble both more prominent but without any hint of exaggeration. The bass in particular had much more impact and I now feel I don't need to swap headphones just to listen to EDM.
When audiophiles complain about "POORLY RECORDED TRACKS", they are actually criticizing the mixing/mastering, I would contend, at least in the overwhelming majority of cases.
Well, safe to say I'll be skipping this one. My ef400 died recently so I was looking at replacing it with another aio. I think I'll keep saving and do a separate. Preferably a vioelctric HPA v222 paired with a bifrost or denafrips
This is a very awesome review. Here maybe 2 idiotic questions. 1) If I use the DAC and output to an external tube amp like the Xduoo TA-66, will that improve the sonic quality i.e. the holographic 3 dementional sounds? 2) Can I still use this to decently drive some bookshelf speakers well or they meant for headphone only? Thank you!
If your current DAC is lesser in quality than the one in these amps, then you would probably see an improvement. To answer the second question, unless an amplifier has speaker outs, it would be impossible to power speakers off of them.
Man, I hope that EF500 will sound well with my Sundaras. Overkill, I know, but I don't care about the wasted money so long as I've a well sounding setup and a free headphone stand to boot! When it finally arrives...
I’ve been using the EF499 with the Edition XS, and it’s a fairly enjoyable combination but with one major issue. I find the tonality of HIFIMAN headphones to be a bit odd and artificial on many amps, but the warmer and more relaxed presentation of the EF499 helps with that. Where it suffers is on livelier, more dynamic music, where I’m sure the EF500 is better. My huge gripe with the EF499 is that if there ever was an amplifier that needed a negative gain mode, it was this. Even with the HE6se V2, I find myself with very little play in the volume knob when using the low gain setting. With more sensitive headphones, I’m at the point where channel imbalance is noticeable from the pot (unlike your test unit) unless I turn down the volume digitally at the source. This seems like a very poor decision on HIFIMAN’s part and I worry that amps like these are encouraging unsafe listening levels that will cause damage to people’s hearing.
Another note is that I found the balanced output on the EF499 to be far superior to the single ended output, which does limit the flexibility of the amp if you have headphones that don’t have balanced input without mods. This is a bit disappointing as the more relaxed presentation does suit those headphones in my collection, namely Grados and Beyers.
I’m also going to guess that the internal amps are identical and that the difference in rated power output comes from a slightly higher output level from the DAC in the EF500 vs EF499. I could be wrong, but the output numbers are so close that it’d be strange to have two completely different designs.
If the ef499 or ef500 had variable pre outs, they would have been soooo much more versatile. Very sad they didnt put that in there. Also very sad they didnt use a better volume pot.
Thanks for the reviews as always, did you try the DT880 600 Ohm on these? I bought the TA-66 two weeks ago ahead of ordering a pair of DT880-600 soon but I am curious to have also a good and affordable solid state amp as well for the DT880-600
What type of power supply is in the units used? Is it switching or linear PS? Being a music lover, you must understand the significance of the linear PS. How about software? Any apps by the HIFIMan which have a decent UI, so I could tickle settings and switch between sound sources?
@36:16, the price doesn't jump the full $129 for the Modi if you go that route, because the Magni Unity can be bought for $119 (black, $129 silver) without the ES9018 internal DAC card, $70 less than the bundle. So a no-DAC Magni ($119) plus a Modi ($129) is $248 vs. the $189 of the Magni Unity with DAC module, a $59∆. So $89 + $248 for the Wiim Mini + Schiit stack, $337, against $299 (current Amazon price) for the HE499, albeit without balanced power for headphones. (Miss the Magnius... Though I suppose a Jotunheim 2 with an internal DAC is a damned good replacement, at $499 vs. $428 (in 2022 dollars) for a Magnius + Modius E stack...)
The SMSL. But you're also asking to compare a good standalone $400 DAC to the onboard DAC implementation of a $299 dac/amp. The SMSL should sound better, and it does.
Hi Wave, love your reviews as always. I'm finally pulling the trigger on HE1000se and for now, just want an aio. I think the EF400 is my choice, but will it have too much power for those headphones? Don't want to have limited usable volume control range. I'm editing my comment from yesterday after watching your most recent review: HiFiMan DAC/Amp Roundup 2. That plus watching this EF499 & EF500 review again brings me to this conclusion: instead of the EF400 for use with HE1000se, the EF500 would be a better choice. And this is temporary until I can purchase a better DAC/Amp stack for the HE1000se. And I have a ultraRendu streamer I can use with this headphone system. @wavetheorysound what do you think?
They both have large toroidal transformers, and don’t forget there’s a built in streamer too. I personally love the size because it doesn’t take up a ton of space on the table unlike horizontally-oriented products and it doesn’t have a separate power brick. HIFIMAN also suggests using it as a headphone stand.
@@darmokt I guess what I meant is the reviews don't make it sound like it is worth it when you can get similar performance from amp/dacs that are 1/5 the size, or less.
Hi Wave, love your reviews as always. For now I just want an aio for the HE1000se which I'm ready to order. Pretty sure I want the HF400. Is that going to be too much power for such easy to drive headphones? Such that there will be limited range on the volume dial.
I didn't say the Magni Unity sounds about as good as the EF500. The Magni Unity sounds about as good as the 499 and the Modius e + Midgard sounds just slightly better than the 500. The 500 outperforms the Magni Unity.
@@wavetheorysound Ok, I just figured when you said the 500 was slightly better than the 499 and the Unity was slightly better than the 499, that meant they were comparable. I'm a long time subscriber so I'm not necessarily calling you out for this but it's just so rare to see a reviewer that admits they can't hear a difference between 2 comparable products or that a lesser priced product sounds better than a more expensive one. It's almost as if they're afraid of losing their audiophile credentials if they admit to this.
Gotcha. And no worries, no offense taken. In some sense your observation is accurate. It's pretty rare for 2 different pieces of gear, even if they're the same price, to sound truly identical. They are different circuit designs and that has sonic effects. This current case is one where the 499 and the Magni Unity don't so much have a better/worse relationship but they are close to technical equals with slightly different sounds. To your other point, one of the reasons that reviewers so rarely say a cheaper piece outperforms a more expensive piece is because such occurrences are actually rather rare. It's my observation that people want lower priced items to outperform higher priced items (which is completely understandable) far more often than it actually happens. In this hobby, as with most, you generally get what you pay for. There are exceptions of course. But those exceptions are just that - exceptions. Cheers.
@@wavetheorysound I appreciate that response. Maybe I am sometimes guilty of wanting reviewers to say the cheaper product is as good or better than the more expensive one. Way off topic but I heard you mention Mike Portnoy in a past review. Would you happen to be a Neal Morse fan? His albums are extremely well produced and I think Mikes best work has been either on his solo albums or with The Neal Morse Band. Just curious...
Mannnnnn been waiting for you to drop this !!!!!
Thank you for this video.
Grabbing a EF500 or EF600 then.
Whichever has smoother treble, probably the EF600 then.
Really like the clean design too.
Replacing my K9 Pro (AKM), I wanted to try HE6SE and if Midgard would get shouty and lack bass then that’s a no no.
I already got Asgard 3, so EF400 would be more of the same, but worse sonic performance, just better amplification.
So it was between the EF500 and EF600.
I tried the EF500 yesterday with my 6XX and was more than impressed. I don't have any experience with $1000+ amplifiers but this the best I have heard them sound outside of OTL amps. The effect was similar, bass and treble both more prominent but without any hint of exaggeration. The bass in particular had much more impact and I now feel I don't need to swap headphones just to listen to EDM.
When audiophiles complain about "POORLY RECORDED TRACKS", they are actually criticizing the mixing/mastering, I would contend, at least in the overwhelming majority of cases.
There are numerous possible causes. Another is mic placement. Lots of variables.
Great value propositions, but yeah one job per box for me.
Optical would be better, HDMI Arc would be handy.
So tempting but without optical I just can't plug in my cd player
yep , really wanted to like the 499 but no optical for my TV made it DOA for me :(
Well, safe to say I'll be skipping this one. My ef400 died recently so I was looking at replacing it with another aio. I think I'll keep saving and do a separate. Preferably a vioelctric HPA v222 paired with a bifrost or denafrips
This is a very awesome review. Here maybe 2 idiotic questions. 1) If I use the DAC and output to an external tube amp like the Xduoo TA-66, will that improve the sonic quality i.e. the holographic 3 dementional sounds? 2) Can I still use this to decently drive some bookshelf speakers well or they meant for headphone only? Thank you!
If your current DAC is lesser in quality than the one in these amps, then you would probably see an improvement. To answer the second question, unless an amplifier has speaker outs, it would be impossible to power speakers off of them.
Man, I hope that EF500 will sound well with my Sundaras. Overkill, I know, but I don't care about the wasted money so long as I've a well sounding setup and a free headphone stand to boot! When it finally arrives...
I’ve been using the EF499 with the Edition XS, and it’s a fairly enjoyable combination but with one major issue. I find the tonality of HIFIMAN headphones to be a bit odd and artificial on many amps, but the warmer and more relaxed presentation of the EF499 helps with that. Where it suffers is on livelier, more dynamic music, where I’m sure the EF500 is better. My huge gripe with the EF499 is that if there ever was an amplifier that needed a negative gain mode, it was this. Even with the HE6se V2, I find myself with very little play in the volume knob when using the low gain setting. With more sensitive headphones, I’m at the point where channel imbalance is noticeable from the pot (unlike your test unit) unless I turn down the volume digitally at the source. This seems like a very poor decision on HIFIMAN’s part and I worry that amps like these are encouraging unsafe listening levels that will cause damage to people’s hearing.
Another note is that I found the balanced output on the EF499 to be far superior to the single ended output, which does limit the flexibility of the amp if you have headphones that don’t have balanced input without mods. This is a bit disappointing as the more relaxed presentation does suit those headphones in my collection, namely Grados and Beyers.
I’m also going to guess that the internal amps are identical and that the difference in rated power output comes from a slightly higher output level from the DAC in the EF500 vs EF499. I could be wrong, but the output numbers are so close that it’d be strange to have two completely different designs.
You can look at them both torn down and internally the 500 is beefier than the 499. The amp section is a bit different. @@darmokt
@@ancientalien815 I stand corrected!
Professor, thank you for another wonderful review of headphone amplifies! 👌
Reverend Dr. Thomas,
✝️ The Vegan Vicar 🌱
If the ef499 or ef500 had variable pre outs, they would have been soooo much more versatile. Very sad they didnt put that in there. Also very sad they didnt use a better volume pot.
Thanks for the reviews as always, did you try the DT880 600 Ohm on these? I bought the TA-66 two weeks ago ahead of ordering a pair of DT880-600 soon but I am curious to have also a good and affordable solid state amp as well for the DT880-600
Not this time. These units sound WAY better balanced than single-ended and Beyer DT series is wired single-ended in stock form.
@@wavetheorysound thanks for the extra information, appreciated
What type of power supply is in the units used? Is it switching or linear PS? Being a music lover, you must understand the significance of the linear PS. How about software? Any apps by the HIFIMan which have a decent UI, so I could tickle settings and switch between sound sources?
you said "twofer" just like a Canadian! lol, cheers from Canada
@36:16, the price doesn't jump the full $129 for the Modi if you go that route, because the Magni Unity can be bought for $119 (black, $129 silver) without the ES9018 internal DAC card, $70 less than the bundle. So a no-DAC Magni ($119) plus a Modi ($129) is $248 vs. the $189 of the Magni Unity with DAC module, a $59∆.
So $89 + $248 for the Wiim Mini + Schiit stack, $337, against $299 (current Amazon price) for the HE499, albeit without balanced power for headphones. (Miss the Magnius... Though I suppose a Jotunheim 2 with an internal DAC is a damned good replacement, at $499 vs. $428 (in 2022 dollars) for a Magnius + Modius E stack...)
A shameless question!
What DAC sounds better to you?
1. smsl do 200 pro
2. ef499
The SMSL. But you're also asking to compare a good standalone $400 DAC to the onboard DAC implementation of a $299 dac/amp. The SMSL should sound better, and it does.
How would the 500 work with the focal clear og
Having to unhook the inputs to either use streamer or usb is really meh. Makes me wanna pass this up and go separates
Hi Wave, love your reviews as always. I'm finally pulling the trigger on HE1000se and for now, just want an aio. I think the EF400 is my choice, but will it have too much power for those headphones? Don't want to have limited usable volume control range.
I'm editing my comment from yesterday after watching your most recent review: HiFiMan DAC/Amp Roundup 2. That plus watching this EF499 & EF500 review again brings me to this conclusion: instead of the EF400 for use with HE1000se, the EF500 would be a better choice. And this is temporary until I can purchase a better DAC/Amp stack for the HE1000se. And I have a ultraRendu streamer I can use with this headphone system.
@wavetheorysound what do you think?
Get Serenade Jr, so you can do Fullhouse Hifiman comparasion:)
Lol. There is no safe time to make a comp video these days.
I saw these amps in person in China, they are massive in size. I don't know why they are making them so big, maybe it is cheaper.
They both have large toroidal transformers, and don’t forget there’s a built in streamer too. I personally love the size because it doesn’t take up a ton of space on the table unlike horizontally-oriented products and it doesn’t have a separate power brick. HIFIMAN also suggests using it as a headphone stand.
@@darmokt I guess what I meant is the reviews don't make it sound like it is worth it when you can get similar performance from amp/dacs that are 1/5 the size, or less.
SMH. My first thought was to connect a USB drive and be able to stream the music on it, how crazy not to allow that!
👌👍
Hi Wave, love your reviews as always. For now I just want an aio for the HE1000se which I'm ready to order. Pretty sure I want the HF400. Is that going to be too much power for such easy to drive headphones? Such that there will be limited range on the volume dial.
So then the Magni Unity sounds about as good as the EF500 unless you have really power hungry headphones?
I didn't say the Magni Unity sounds about as good as the EF500. The Magni Unity sounds about as good as the 499 and the Modius e + Midgard sounds just slightly better than the 500. The 500 outperforms the Magni Unity.
@@wavetheorysound Ok, I just figured when you said the 500 was slightly better than the 499 and the Unity was slightly better than the 499, that meant they were comparable.
I'm a long time subscriber so I'm not necessarily calling you out for this but it's just so rare to see a reviewer that admits they can't hear a difference between 2 comparable products or that a lesser priced product sounds better than a more expensive one. It's almost as if they're afraid of losing their audiophile credentials if they admit to this.
Gotcha. And no worries, no offense taken. In some sense your observation is accurate. It's pretty rare for 2 different pieces of gear, even if they're the same price, to sound truly identical. They are different circuit designs and that has sonic effects. This current case is one where the 499 and the Magni Unity don't so much have a better/worse relationship but they are close to technical equals with slightly different sounds.
To your other point, one of the reasons that reviewers so rarely say a cheaper piece outperforms a more expensive piece is because such occurrences are actually rather rare. It's my observation that people want lower priced items to outperform higher priced items (which is completely understandable) far more often than it actually happens. In this hobby, as with most, you generally get what you pay for. There are exceptions of course. But those exceptions are just that - exceptions. Cheers.
@@wavetheorysound I appreciate that response. Maybe I am sometimes guilty of wanting reviewers to say the cheaper product is as good or better than the more expensive one.
Way off topic but I heard you mention Mike Portnoy in a past review. Would you happen to be a Neal Morse fan? His albums are extremely well produced and I think Mikes best work has been either on his solo albums or with The Neal Morse Band. Just curious...