Here's an addendum to the video outlining the next steps and answering a few questions. Thanks for watching. 73 Julian oh8stn oh8stn.org/blog/2021/06/20/chameleon-skyloop-horizontal-loop-antenna/
Thank you for the information on the 80 m sky loop antenna, and you have a video on the installation. I have been many years trying many different antennas for HF some work better than others but never on all bands. Again your information is very helpful and I will be purchasing the 80 meter sky loop antenna, 73 K1JIW
I used to enjoy an 80M full wave horizontal loop fed with 450 Ohm twinlead to a 4:1 balun into a Icom 703 QRP rig and was able to transmit/receive Japan from Midwest USA via greyline propagation almost every day with 10 watts (or less) SSB 17M band....the Japanese stations were using monoband Yagi antennas and we could ragchew both of us dialed down to sub-10W levels. They were impressed to hear this from a simple omnidirectional wire antenna setup.
Thanks Julian for a great inspiring video! Loved seeing the low noisefloor! Now I need to get that antenna also for my dad who is a SWL(who listens mostly on the ham bands) who would probably love this in his high noise neighborhood. But I would love to have it on my property, lots of space here. 😁👍 73, Ken LB9YH
Actually I need to test that. Shortwave listening antenna with that kind of noise floor can pick up some incredible things. Thanks for the kindness and the comment. It's very much appreciated 👍
When you go back up to replace out the non resistant UV wire ties, and put the transformer box on a standoff can you open the box so we can see the quality of the build inside? That's my idea of an unboxing :) I've been considering putting up a sky loop so this was very timely and helpful.
Great video as always. I have a sky loop set up in much the same shape as you put your loop in. My loop is not from Chameleon it is a homebrew that I built myself and is cut to 40m as I didn't have enough space to get enough wire up for 80m. That said it preforms great! I live in a neighborhood so there is plenty noise and I find that the I am able to get the noise floor down to s3 or less in most cases. Sadly I don't have any experience with any different type of hf antenna at my QTH as this is the first and only one I have installed but it seems to preform very well. I am able to work pretty much any band I want from 40m-50m using a tuner and have also used it on 80m with the tuner. The 40m loop on 80m seems to act more like an NVIS antenna, I am not sure why but that is my experience with it. Thanks for the videos and keep them coming love your content!
Outstanding feedback. It is still amazing that we don't hear much about these horizontal loops. Best kept secret for sure. Perhaps the next one will be a 40 meter version for JS8Call. After this, I can't imagine being impressed by some other fixed station antenna. Thanks for the feedback. It's extremely helpful and appreciated. 73 Julian oh8stn
Thank you for this video. Yes, I can confirm, such antenna (I know them as a Lazy-Delta-Loop antenna) are excellent HF allround antennas. 80m or, if possible, 160m circumference will make an excellent antenna which is resonant at every 3.5 (or 1.8) mHz. And the beauty, if mounted "lazy" (lying), that antenna performs superb at the lower bands for short-distances (NVIS and close to, because the high above the ground is 1/4 lambda or less) an if you go higher in the bands, the radiation pattern goes down, if you continue to 1/2 lambda or more above ground. So that ist THAT what we need, lower frequency, higher radiation pattern, and higher frequencies, lower patterns ;) I have had such antenna with 84m circumference in abt. 12m up in the air, feeded with ladder line and at a different location with koaxial cable and a 1 : 2 and also with a 1 : 4 balun. Worked both wonderful. vy73 from Hamburg/Germany, Dietmar, DL4HAO
Amazing. Had no idea these antennas were in such widespread usage. Years ago, and old timer told me "you need to get more wire in the air". Seems like he was right. Thanks for the amazing feedback. I'It will certainly help others find value in these horizontal loops as well. 73 Julian oh8stn
My Elmer uses a 'sky' loop, and has great performance as well. One of the reasons for the performance, he tells me, is because most interference is vertically polarized, so naturally a horizontal antenna won't pick most of that up. His noise floors are insanely low too, which is great for at least being able to copy some really weak signals. The advantages are you can work all the HF frequencies with 1 antenna, and the wire length itself does not have to be resonate. In fact the longer the wire is past 160 meters the better. Another advantage to using a horizontal loop is the stealth aspect because if you didn't know what you were looking at one would probably never guess it was an antenna, so great for neighborhoods locked down with a HOA. Don't think for a moment you might be limited to trees because loops can work in attics too. Really, I don't understand why these aren't more popular.
Those with the space for antennas such as this one are fortunate. Wish I had the room. As an aside, Julian, have you had an opportunity to check out the Xiegu X6100. With WiFi and Bluetooth, it looks as if it will challenge the Icom 105.
Julian ... you are spot on about the Skyloop. I have always lived in extremely compromised size lots. When I use to live in a condo in Aliso Viejo, in the late 80s, I lived on the second floor with a third floor loft and found a way to route a twinlead feeder that connected to a 20 meter rectangular loop I laid on the top of the roof which was at about 30 feet above ground. The HOA was clueless, since there was nothing to see. I experienced amazing results with it. I could load it up on 80 by tying both conductors of the twinlead together and using the loop as a capacitive hat. 40 - 10 were also possible feeding the twinlead thru the tuner. I was able to work all continents, and enjoyed the same low noise floor you noted. Keep the great content coming Sir! 73, KF6IF
I would have used the black "zip-ties" in an environment exposed to direct sunlight. Supposedly the "white" ones break down from the UV and get hardened/brittle and become prone to breakage. This recommendation especially if on a tower necessitating a lift truck.
As you noted, a wire loop cut for 80m (or even better - 160m) is a tremendously well-performing antenna on all the HF bands on its fundamental frequency and above. I first used a loop at Field Day about 10 years ago and was amazed at the gain and low noise. I've since tried to use wire antennas of various types but I always find the loop to be a significantly better performer.
Thanks for this feedback. It's amazing how well these perform. Honestly it was difficult not to be skeptical when first learning about them. I imagine this is where the saying "get more wire in the air" came from. 73 Julian oh8stn
I used to have a 40m horizontal loop fed by ladder-line from a Z-match tuner. It was very inexpensive and fantastic performance. I have since tried many other antennas at the same location but nothing has come close to the loop.
Should have gone for M&P UltraFlex 10 and forget about loss completely. Super jealous of your lot. Our garden in the UK is tiny by comparison. Most UK gardens are pathetically small. I have no space for a wire antenna and would love something like this. I can't work anything lower than 20m currently.
Had not heard of that coax previously, but i'll check on it for next time. Tough about the gardens. When we were looking for a home a couple of decades ago, we knew it needed to be large enough for some HF antennas. Luckily we have good neighbors and a relatively tolerant society in regards to ham radio.
I have used a 160m delta loop fed with open wire feeder for 25 yrs, since starting an electronic log QRZ in 2019 I have worked 91 countries on SSB. I find that if I can hear the station I can normally work it with 200w. Thanks for your video, Wayne VK2DWP.
Just watched your video and I can say I have had similar results with a home-brewed horizontal delta loop antenna I have set up in our birch trees here in interior Alaska. The noise floor is so low on 80 meters that when I turn the radio on, I often wonder if it cam down until I hear another station. I can connect with very distant winlink stations on 80, 40 and twenty meters quite easily and would highly recommend this type of antenna if room allows. I took down my dipole and gave it away... KC7FWK.
Great video! I will look into loops after summer. I cant get it up as high as yours and must navigate a lot of trees and branches. But with that kind of performance 👍🏻. Many thanks! 🙏
You are very welcome. Neither the birch trees or the antenna performance have suffered the installation. If nothing else, give it a try. With such a small risk, why not give it a go. 73 Julian oh8stn
Hello Untill 2017 I had.a fullwave 80M loopantenna (83,0m long and grounded in the middle under the rooftiles and it was fed with 22,75m (78feet) of 450 Ohm Windowline which was connected to BALANCED LINE ON MFJ969/962D [4:1]and it perfomed well. Longest PSK31 with Michigan 8834 km and to the east Sverdlovsk by Caspian sea about 2250 km. About 4 years ago they made a overhaul to our roofs and just got to keep the feed Line. Entrys to roof is now looked with a padlock an freqvent inspections of "my roof" so I CAN NOT lay a new 80M (83,0m) loopantenna.[HOA] 73s de Gunnar sm6oer>>\
I have had a diy version of this antenna for several years. It is the best antenna I have tried. Mine is only 24 ft hi and is in a square configuration. The antenna develops lobes of gain the higher in freq. you go. I even hooked up my 2 mtr handy and checked into local nets. I have had QSO's all over the world. My biggest problem is the supports I have and the high winds we have here in West Texas. 73 KG5YUO
Thanks for sharing. Yeah this is also my best antenna. Ridiculously low noise floor with no need to run very much power. I'll never give it up👍 73 Julian oh8stn
I had a 40m loop at ~9m around an aluminum-sided house that worked very well. I replaced it with an 80m loop that worked pretty well. I need to put one back up. 73 & Semper Fi.
I love full wave loops. If I had the space and vertical supports that's my ideal. At my QTH I'm running an 80m doublet fed with balanced line. It's only 10 meters high at the peak, and I have an odd looking triangle shape. In the shack, close by the radio, I have a transformer (4:1 current balun) in front of an auto tuner. Gives me 80-6m match, and was quieter than conventional dipoles, with far less loss due to my feedline choice.
I have a homebrew 80 M loop as my primary antenna and have been extremely happy with the results. The noise floor is almost nonexistent And when I used it for my Winlink gateway it was very popular. After watching this video I am very tempted to get this antenna and give it a whirl. The quality has to be much better than my homebrew solution. ;-)
This is good feedback. I really have no other horizontal loops to compare it to, but this really seems to be working. In fact it is working so well, I really don't want to use it for my gatway :D I may need to put up a second one. 73 Julian oh8stn
I’m new to this and not familiar with brands and qualities. I have been looking into getting a sky loop but i dont really have anything on my property tall enough to use as supports for this antenna in any configuration. If you were to use telescoping poles as support, which brand(s) would you use? 73! Matt
@@OH8STN Hahaha, yeah we've all been there. If somebody makes UV and weather resistant zip ties, I will buy them all. They're just so darn useful, and surprisingly strong!
Great video! I saw a lot of comments on the zip ties. Generally speaking black zip ties, even though of the similar material, block the penetration of UV light and will last a very long time. They are generally safe to use outdoors. Utility companies even use them.
Loops are great antennas. I'm running one now. Have setup many in the past including one for 160m. You don't need an expensive chameleon product to build one, however. A simple 1:1 current balun or 4:1 balun, paired with 14ga wire from the hardware store, are FAR cheaper than a prebuilt system. You don't even need to know how to solder. They're even cheaper if fed with ladder line.
Well 4:1 and 1:1 UNUN aren't optimal for SKYLOOP when you want to reduce the looses at the minimum but still want to be able to push 600W CW or 1000W SSB. You're still going to need a waterproof enclosure because the antenna will spend YEARS at that location. The 14 gauge THHN (about $70 for 500' with heat capacity of up to 90°C will crack at sub zero temperature if you start to move it. This wire is made to be installed and not touched to move electrical power from one side to another) from the hardware store isn't suitable at all. First its WAY too heavy - you'll need EXCELLENT support to hold the whole thing up and thus without wind / snow / rain and ice factors! Then, the sleeve protecting the wire will start peeling a year or so later. Chameleon Antenna uses proprietary 16' Copper Clad KEVLAR PTFE (Teflon) (-70°C to 150°C) wire which is way lighted and way stronger. Yes - more expansive but designed EXACTLY to be a great wire for antenna making! So when you add it up: Wire ($70+) Water, shock and UV proof enclosure ($15) Stainless Steel and connectors hardware ($15) High power transformer made with PTFE solid wire ($20+) Labor and other ($20 to $30 at least if you value your time) You'll find out that you're already around at least $120 to $130+ and not even remotely close to a professionally made unit. Don't get me wrong, it's going to work but you'll be at about 2/3 of the cost of a professional unit without having professional building materials and professional manufacturing assembly with ZERO support! You really need to weight everything as its not as obvious as it might appear!
Thanks for the feedback. At this latitude, finding all the components, ordering, having them shipped here, putting it together, and longevity all add to the price of DIY. I want to put it up, and leave it there for 20 years. Sometimes it's better to leave it to someone who knows what they are doing. Especially when the price is reasonable.
Great vid. I have to ask one question. Were the zip ties UV resistant? I've had issues with using white zip ties that were not and they broke apart during windy conditions. 73 es gud DX. - Tim DL4TCM
Now that you've mentioned it, I'm not sure. This is a great tip and I'll switch those out as soon as I can. Thanks for the heads up oh, it's very much appreciated. 73 Julian oh8stn
@@OH8STN as far as I know, those black zip ties are UV resistant, not the white ones (unless you cover them with some electric tape or similar) ;) vy73, Dietmar, DL4HAO
Yep. those zip ties will fail after a while from being outside. Also, get some KLEIN Flush Cut pliers to snip the ends flush, so they don't leave a sharp edge that can cut you.
I loved the Whistling of the Marine Corps Hymn! Semper Fi and Can Do I got to get one of these for my Station and thanks for the Great Reviews. Unfortunately my Persian Gulf War and Somalia days has caught up to me and I am Battling Health Issues. I still haven't Made the Continental Crossing on the Motorcycle or Transcontinental Trails but with Stage 2 Emphysema from the Oil Wells fires, Burn Pits and Other environmental crap. I want be able to handle the high altitudes either nor work on my tower for that matter. I digress and hope to here you on the Bands. Stay Safe and Blessing Julian De WV1Q AL
@@OH8STN I recognized that immediately in watching you, I do the same with Anchors Aweigh, it's true. I'm not going to turn this into interservice rivalry, I loved the Marines and had my ass saved by them more than once. I envy the lifelong brotherhood you guys have. mad respect.
Only thing you could do better would be feed it with balance feed line 4” open spaced to back of tuner or ant match. I would be curious if you could squeeze out a few more db but at a little harder installation. Nice tower 😉 I’m working with pines & maples at 80’ sadly only a 50’ cottonwood for the feed point so I’m in a hw dipole contemplating a loop or turnstile but going into HOA territory to put my elements may result in no wires going their way so may be better off trying a vertical from a boom out of the top of another maple I’m not using. Thank you for showing us mistakes and how to fix 😉
On Windows, search screen settings "Turn high contrast mode on". The profile I use is called "high contrast 1". In JS8Call, WSJTX, JTDX, you'll need to set the color settings as you like. FLDigi is practically impossible to setup good colors in, so I stopped trying. Winlink has a custom color setting under a menu from msinbscreen. You czn chznge font, gordground colir, background color, and size. Other apps adapt to Windows color profile settings. Hope this helps 73 Julian oh8stn
Well linux and the raspberry pie are more difficult. Just like windows the apps I mentioned can be customized within the app settings. For PAT Winlink, I installed a plugin for chromium called High Contrsst. This allowed me to invert the colors.
Yes actually it is. There's a couple of reasons. Firstly the fireman can easily get up on the roof. There's also ladders on the side of the house, allowing Escape is another route the outside is blocked by fire. Finally the chimney inspector uses those ladders to get up and down to check and clean the chimney once a year. Awesome observation :-)
Great vid Julian. I have the room for the loop. Love the low visibility. I prefer to fly under the radar for many reasons. The neighbors are the least of my concerns.
Did you use the drone to take measurements? If so, how? Was it a dji? Thanks! Going to play with mine today, see if I can take measurements between legs.
Indeed, but I slso knew the measurement of my property, and of the antenna. The DJI Mini 3 Pro shows the exact distance on the control screen. If you know the length of each leg, you can position the copter over an anchor point, then place a marker.
Got mine up this morning. Hang on, let me edit that***. Just fixed major coax issue. Totally resonant in the SSB portion of 80, almost 1:1 in the extra portion of 20, same on the lower SSB portion of 40. Very happy, thank you very much for the video.
Are you still so enthusiastic about you skyloop ? I modeled your on MMANA and apparently might high gain on higher band in the south west direction. I will install one soon, homemade with twin line, a palstar at-auto balanced line and a system to move the wire from a corner to a side of the triangle in order to be directive. I also have an IC705, beautiful piece of technology. Thanks for your nice video !
@@OH8STN 12M is like 6. Sometimes it’s crazy busy and then other times nothing. Propagation is cool. I was so happy seeing that being installed. Waaay better idea doing it from the safety of the bucket. Looks as high as a Ferris wheel
160m loop wow👍 No modelling, just real world tests with this one. Performance has been better than expected. I don't know why I didn't consider an antenna like this years ago.
This antenna has been the home workhorse since it went up. It has insanely good performance and isn't all that expensive. Be sure to read the comments from other users. 73 Julian oh8stn
The skyloop is the best antenna I have. It needs lots of space, but it can hear a pin drop on the other side of the planet on a bad day. 73 Julian oh8stn
Great video, as always. Does the Aircell choke need to have a standoff also, or just the transformer? I’ve whistled that tune a few times before. Semper fi brother!
Be sure to get a non conductive stand off on that soon. Those zippies will last a month. Use Dacron rope. I also run a delta config with my loop. You will find that apex up or fed here on the tower, you should have a lower take off angle. Even more so if you bring the other 2 ends low on the tree. 10’. They are truly great antennas. With longer coax runs, I prefer tru open wire ladder line. It really makes the higher bands shine. I’m not sure what “transformer” they use. Maybe a 4:1 or 6:1 balun. I’m fully able to hear people others in my area will not. Hence the sig to noise ratio. I’m somewhat confused why you run the rf gain down on the rig with this setup? Anyway, I know those arial lifts are not cheap here. About 350$ per day. But I guess it’s worth it. When you get bored, lower the tree legs of loop and see what happens. Will look for a follow on swr charts “pre tuner”. Tnx as always
Thanks for the feedback. The RF gain is usually around 50%. Gof the tests, it was up all the way, preamp on. Even then the noise was less than S1 . That's just incredible ! The transformer is 2:5.1 unun. I have never seen this Transformer configuration before. Thanks for the tips on getting things squared away. I'll be up on the tower again in a week or two. Just ordering the new pieces to get it squared away. Thanks for this awesome feedback. 73 Julian oh8stn
I was reading about Sky wires and Sky Loops. that even 6-8 m height can be more effective than a dipole at the same height. If nothing else at least give it a try.
Another comment that might be of interest on every multiple of the fundamental frequency the skyloop has gain in the direction away from the feedpoint. Of course in other directions it then has a small loss (the gain has to come from somewhere!).
My 12m fiberglass mast and my dipole inverted V is better installed at temporary location. Sorry, it's my honest opinion! Better installation next time :-) HJ4AVG, 73
This is not designed as a temporary antenna. Moreover the dipole has less gain and more noise than a horizontal loop. That's a fact, not an opinion :-)
Here's an addendum to the video outlining the next steps and answering a few questions. Thanks for watching.
73
Julian oh8stn
oh8stn.org/blog/2021/06/20/chameleon-skyloop-horizontal-loop-antenna/
I use to have a 160M Horizontal Loop fed with ladder line. . Loved It.
Thank you for the information on the 80 m sky loop antenna, and you have a video on the installation. I have been many years trying many different antennas for HF some work better than others but never on all bands. Again your information is very helpful and I will be purchasing the 80 meter sky loop antenna, 73 K1JIW
I used to enjoy an 80M full wave horizontal loop fed with 450 Ohm twinlead to a 4:1 balun into a Icom 703 QRP rig and was able to transmit/receive Japan from Midwest USA via greyline propagation almost every day with 10 watts (or less) SSB 17M band....the Japanese stations were using monoband Yagi antennas and we could ragchew both of us dialed down to sub-10W levels. They were impressed to hear this from a simple omnidirectional wire antenna setup.
I would have liked to have seen the SWR curves on each of the bands
Fair enough.
I'll do a follow-up video after fixing the installation. Then I'll publish the SWR curves 👍
Nice work, Julian. Thanks, Steve W1LV
Thanks Julian for a great inspiring video! Loved seeing the low noisefloor! Now I need to get that antenna also for my dad who is a SWL(who listens mostly on the ham bands) who would probably love this in his high noise neighborhood. But I would love to have it on my property, lots of space here. 😁👍 73, Ken LB9YH
Actually I need to test that. Shortwave listening antenna with that kind of noise floor can pick up some incredible things. Thanks for the kindness and the comment. It's very much appreciated 👍
When you go back up to replace out the non resistant UV wire ties, and put the transformer box on a standoff can you open the box so we can see the quality of the build inside? That's my idea of an unboxing :)
I've been considering putting up a sky loop so this was very timely and helpful.
Fair enough. It is already on my to-do list.
Check the episode notes in the pinned comment, for images of the insides.
73
Julian oh8stn
Great video as always. I have a sky loop set up in much the same shape as you put your loop in. My loop is not from Chameleon it is a homebrew that I built myself and is cut to 40m as I didn't have enough space to get enough wire up for 80m. That said it preforms great! I live in a neighborhood so there is plenty noise and I find that the I am able to get the noise floor down to s3 or less in most cases. Sadly I don't have any experience with any different type of hf antenna at my QTH as this is the first and only one I have installed but it seems to preform very well. I am able to work pretty much any band I want from 40m-50m using a tuner and have also used it on 80m with the tuner. The 40m loop on 80m seems to act more like an NVIS antenna, I am not sure why but that is my experience with it. Thanks for the videos and keep them coming love your content!
Outstanding feedback.
It is still amazing that we don't hear much about these horizontal loops. Best kept secret for sure.
Perhaps the next one will be a 40 meter version for JS8Call. After this, I can't imagine being impressed by some other fixed station antenna.
Thanks for the feedback. It's extremely helpful and appreciated.
73
Julian oh8stn
Thank you for this video. Yes, I can confirm, such antenna (I know them as a Lazy-Delta-Loop antenna) are excellent HF allround antennas. 80m or, if possible, 160m circumference will make an excellent antenna which is resonant at every 3.5 (or 1.8) mHz. And the beauty, if mounted "lazy" (lying), that antenna performs superb at the lower bands for short-distances (NVIS and close to, because the high above the ground is 1/4 lambda or less) an if you go higher in the bands, the radiation pattern goes down, if you continue to 1/2 lambda or more above ground. So that ist THAT what we need, lower frequency, higher radiation pattern, and higher frequencies, lower patterns ;) I have had such antenna with 84m circumference in abt. 12m up in the air, feeded with ladder line and at a different location with koaxial cable and a 1 : 2 and also with a 1 : 4 balun. Worked both wonderful. vy73 from Hamburg/Germany, Dietmar, DL4HAO
Amazing. Had no idea these antennas were in such widespread usage. Years ago, and old timer told me "you need to get more wire in the air". Seems like he was right.
Thanks for the amazing feedback. I'It will certainly help others find value in these horizontal loops as well.
73
Julian oh8stn
In addition to a great video the whistle song of choice was outstanding as well. Semper Fi & 73.
Noticed that too! 😁
My Elmer uses a 'sky' loop, and has great performance as well. One of the reasons for the performance, he tells me, is because most interference is vertically polarized, so naturally a horizontal antenna won't pick most of that up. His noise floors are insanely low too, which is great for at least being able to copy some really weak signals. The advantages are you can work all the HF frequencies with 1 antenna, and the wire length itself does not have to be resonate. In fact the longer the wire is past 160 meters the better. Another advantage to using a horizontal loop is the stealth aspect because if you didn't know what you were looking at one would probably never guess it was an antenna, so great for neighborhoods locked down with a HOA. Don't think for a moment you might be limited to trees because loops can work in attics too. Really, I don't understand why these aren't more popular.
I have one of these Skyloops on my VK4LM Winlink HF RMS, works well :-)
Thanks for the feedback Jack. Learning all the time.
Those with the space for antennas such as this one are fortunate. Wish I had the room. As an aside, Julian, have you had an opportunity to check out the Xiegu X6100. With WiFi and Bluetooth, it looks as if it will challenge the Icom 105.
@pileupdx just sent me some information on it. I'll get right on it.
73
Julian oh8stn
Thanks!
Thank you 🙏
Julian ... you are spot on about the Skyloop. I have always lived in extremely compromised size lots. When I use to live in a condo in Aliso Viejo, in the late 80s, I lived on the second floor with a third floor loft and found a way to route a twinlead feeder that connected to a 20 meter rectangular loop I laid on the top of the roof which was at about 30 feet above ground. The HOA was clueless, since there was nothing to see. I experienced amazing results with it. I could load it up on 80 by tying both conductors of the twinlead together and using the loop as a capacitive hat. 40 - 10 were also possible feeding the twinlead thru the tuner. I was able to work all continents, and enjoyed the same low noise floor you noted. Keep the great content coming Sir! 73, KF6IF
Is there a part 2? 3 years down the road, still working great?
This was the best antenna investment I've ever made! Still my primary antenna for the home station.
I would have used the black "zip-ties" in an environment exposed to direct sunlight. Supposedly the "white" ones break down from the UV and get hardened/brittle and become prone to breakage. This recommendation especially if on a tower necessitating a lift truck.
Always learning 👍
As you noted, a wire loop cut for 80m (or even better - 160m) is a tremendously well-performing antenna on all the HF bands on its fundamental frequency and above. I first used a loop at Field Day about 10 years ago and was amazed at the gain and low noise. I've since tried to use wire antennas of various types but I always find the loop to be a significantly better performer.
Thanks for this feedback. It's amazing how well these perform. Honestly it was difficult not to be skeptical when first learning about them. I imagine this is where the saying "get more wire in the air" came from.
73
Julian oh8stn
I used to have a 40m horizontal loop fed by ladder-line from a Z-match tuner. It was very inexpensive and fantastic performance. I have since tried many other antennas at the same location but nothing has come close to the loop.
Sounds Amazing. Why not put the loop back up?
thanks for sharing this info.....If I only had a tower. 73 de AB8AS
A tower is not required, trees or telescopic poles will do fine.
73
Julian oh8stn
@@OH8STN Having the lift truck sure helps! They are pretty expensive to rent here in the USA.
Merci ❤
Looks like I need to get one of those
Semper Fi
Thank you brother
Should have gone for M&P UltraFlex 10 and forget about loss completely.
Super jealous of your lot. Our garden in the UK is tiny by comparison. Most UK gardens are pathetically small. I have no space for a wire antenna and would love something like this. I can't work anything lower than 20m currently.
Had not heard of that coax previously, but i'll check on it for next time. Tough about the gardens. When we were looking for a home a couple of decades ago, we knew it needed to be large enough for some HF antennas. Luckily we have good neighbors and a relatively tolerant society in regards to ham radio.
I dig the whistling. 😉
Yes - Semper Fi!
Hey Julian, Thanks for all this education. I'm not even licensed yet and I am all in! For grins, how tall is your tower?
Thanks,
Dave
currently 24 meters or about 78 feet. The inside tower is not raised but I have the permit for raising it.
I have used a 160m delta loop fed with open wire feeder for 25 yrs, since starting an electronic log QRZ in 2019 I have worked 91 countries on SSB. I find that if I can hear the station I can normally work it with 200w. Thanks for your video, Wayne VK2DWP.
Just watched your video and I can say I have had similar results with a home-brewed horizontal delta loop antenna I have set up in our birch trees here in interior Alaska. The noise floor is so low on 80 meters that when I turn the radio on, I often wonder if it cam down until I hear another station. I can connect with very distant winlink stations on 80, 40 and twenty meters quite easily and would highly recommend this type of antenna if room allows. I took down my dipole and gave it away... KC7FWK.
Have heard these loops work well, seems to be true. Would like to see how you strain relief the corners in the trees and allow for wind sway. Thanks.
I used 5mm stretch cordage for strain relief. I'll add that to the episode notes sometime this week.
Get queasy just watching...can't deal with heights.
Same problem at times. Just have to suck it up then focus on the job 🤣👍
73
Julian oh8stn
Great video! I will look into loops after summer. I cant get it up as high as yours and must navigate a lot of trees and branches. But with that kind of performance 👍🏻. Many thanks! 🙏
You are very welcome.
Neither the birch trees or the antenna performance have suffered the installation. If nothing else, give it a try. With such a small risk, why not give it a go.
73
Julian oh8stn
How is that balun done? In blog post pic there are 3 wires on ferrite
2.25:1 unun
Hello
Untill 2017 I had.a fullwave 80M loopantenna (83,0m long and grounded
in the middle under the rooftiles and it was fed with 22,75m (78feet) of 450 Ohm Windowline which was connected
to BALANCED LINE ON MFJ969/962D
[4:1]and it perfomed well. Longest PSK31 with Michigan 8834 km and
to the east Sverdlovsk by Caspian
sea about 2250 km. About 4 years
ago they made a overhaul to our
roofs and just got to keep the feed
Line. Entrys to roof is now looked
with a padlock an freqvent inspections
of "my roof" so I CAN NOT lay a new
80M (83,0m) loopantenna.[HOA]
73s de Gunnar sm6oer>>\
Nice mix of jazz and The Marine's Hymn... ;-) AI7HP
Excellent presentation! You've given me some great ideas on how I can do something similar. Thanks-K4KZ
Great installation. What noise! 👍👍👍
67096709
Height is always a advantage And having a tower doesn’t hurt
I have had a diy version of this antenna for several years. It is the best antenna I have tried. Mine is only 24 ft hi and is in a square configuration.
The antenna develops lobes of gain the higher in freq. you go. I even hooked up my 2 mtr handy and checked into local nets. I have had QSO's all over the world. My biggest problem is the supports I have and the high winds we have here in West Texas. 73 KG5YUO
Thanks for sharing. Yeah this is also my best antenna. Ridiculously low noise floor with no need to run very much power. I'll never give it up👍
73
Julian oh8stn
The tower stand-off would be perfect and you might think of using uv-resistant ty-wraps. These white ones will break.
That's a great point and tip. I'll switch them out ASAP
73
Julian oh8stn
I had a 40m loop at ~9m around an aluminum-sided house that worked very well. I replaced it with an 80m loop that worked pretty well. I need to put one back up. 73 & Semper Fi.
Definitely do, these are pretty amazing.
73
Julian oh8stn
I love full wave loops. If I had the space and vertical supports that's my ideal. At my QTH I'm running an 80m doublet fed with balanced line. It's only 10 meters high at the peak, and I have an odd looking triangle shape. In the shack, close by the radio, I have a transformer (4:1 current balun) in front of an auto tuner. Gives me 80-6m match, and was quieter than conventional dipoles, with far less loss due to my feedline choice.
Outstanding. Haven't researched the doublet before. What are its main benefits?
It's always good to see you here by the way.
Loop antenna works excellen on all Hf bands Zs
I hope you're not using zip ties as a permanent install method. They just don't hold up when exposed to UV and heat/cold cycles for years at a time.
I've already switched them out.👍
zip ties are eventually destroyed by UV light.
What would you do without the handy zip tie :)
I have a homebrew 80 M loop as my primary antenna and have been extremely happy with the results. The noise floor is almost nonexistent And when I used it for my Winlink gateway it was very popular. After watching this video I am very tempted to get this antenna and give it a whirl. The quality has to be much better than my homebrew solution. ;-)
This is good feedback. I really have no other horizontal loops to compare it to, but this really seems to be working. In fact it is working so well, I really don't want to use it for my gatway :D I may need to put up a second one.
73
Julian oh8stn
Thanks for this video. Do you know what type of transformer/matching network is inside the box?
I believe its a 2:5 unun.
73
Julian oh8stn
I’m new to this and not familiar with brands and qualities. I have been looking into getting a sky loop but i dont really have anything on my property tall enough to use as supports for this antenna in any configuration. If you were to use telescoping poles as support, which brand(s) would you use? 73! Matt
That's a great question! I would go with Spiderbeam 18m/60ft telescopic mast. Remove the you three sections to make it more rigid.
73
Julian oh8stn
That is simply an unacceptable level of zip ties.
There's not enough! Hahaha, 73 de W8IJC.
I was almost heartbroken, and glad I expanded your comment :-)
🙏👍😂
@@OH8STN Hahaha, yeah we've all been there. If somebody makes UV and weather resistant zip ties, I will buy them all. They're just so darn useful, and surprisingly strong!
Is the transformer in the box a 1:1, 2:1, 4:1, 9:1, 49:1 or what?
2:5.1 balun
Great video! I saw a lot of comments on the zip ties. Generally speaking black zip ties, even though of the similar material, block the penetration of UV light and will last a very long time. They are generally safe to use outdoors. Utility companies even use them.
RR, thanks for the knowledge.
The white ones have all been replaced now 👍
Thanks for not making ME say it 😅
Loops are great antennas. I'm running one now. Have setup many in the past including one for 160m. You don't need an expensive chameleon product to build one, however. A simple 1:1 current balun or 4:1 balun, paired with 14ga wire from the hardware store, are FAR cheaper than a prebuilt system. You don't even need to know how to solder. They're even cheaper if fed with ladder line.
Well 4:1 and 1:1 UNUN aren't optimal for SKYLOOP when you want to reduce the looses at the minimum but still want to be able to push 600W CW or 1000W SSB. You're still going to need a waterproof enclosure because the antenna will spend YEARS at that location.
The 14 gauge THHN (about $70 for 500' with heat capacity of up to 90°C will crack at sub zero temperature if you start to move it. This wire is made to be installed and not touched to move electrical power from one side to another) from the hardware store isn't suitable at all. First its WAY too heavy - you'll need EXCELLENT support to hold the whole thing up and thus without wind / snow / rain and ice factors! Then, the sleeve protecting the wire will start peeling a year or so later. Chameleon Antenna uses proprietary 16' Copper Clad KEVLAR PTFE (Teflon) (-70°C to 150°C) wire which is way lighted and way stronger. Yes - more expansive but designed EXACTLY to be a great wire for antenna making!
So when you add it up:
Wire ($70+)
Water, shock and UV proof enclosure ($15)
Stainless Steel and connectors hardware ($15)
High power transformer made with PTFE solid wire ($20+)
Labor and other ($20 to $30 at least if you value your time)
You'll find out that you're already around at least $120 to $130+ and not even remotely close to a professionally made unit. Don't get me wrong, it's going to work but you'll be at about 2/3 of the cost of a professional unit without having professional building materials and professional manufacturing assembly with ZERO support!
You really need to weight everything as its not as obvious as it might appear!
Thanks for the feedback. At this latitude, finding all the components, ordering, having them shipped here, putting it together, and longevity all add to the price of DIY. I want to put it up, and leave it there for 20 years. Sometimes it's better to leave it to someone who knows what they are doing. Especially when the price is reasonable.
@@carllavoie3804 There's really no need to use insulated wire. It just adds weight and wind load.
Great vid. I have to ask one question. Were the zip ties UV resistant? I've had issues with using white zip ties that were not and they broke apart during windy conditions. 73 es gud DX. - Tim DL4TCM
Now that you've mentioned it, I'm not sure. This is a great tip and I'll switch those out as soon as I can. Thanks for the heads up oh, it's very much appreciated.
73
Julian oh8stn
@@OH8STN - no problem Julian. Keep up the great work. 73 Tim DL4TM/AC1KD
@@OH8STN as far as I know, those black zip ties are UV resistant, not the white ones (unless you cover them with some electric tape or similar) ;) vy73, Dietmar, DL4HAO
Yep. those zip ties will fail after a while from being outside. Also, get some KLEIN Flush Cut pliers to snip the ends flush, so they don't leave a sharp edge that can cut you.
@@OH8STN use some metal zip ties, they are used a lot in ships
More wire in the air is always better! What does the transmission line transformer consist of?
Agreed.
It's a 2:5.1 unun
Haha! @5:30
Does EVERYONE in your country have ladders permanently installed on their roofs? I can only imagine that's for snow mitigation?
Every standalone, detached and row house needs them. They are for fire safety, and chimney cleaning.
If the transformer is a torroid core, it should not be affected by proximity to the tower. There should be no significant degration of performance.
Is this temporary? No waterproofing wrap on the connector at the box?
It's not complete. A little more work to do 👍
I loved the Whistling of the Marine Corps Hymn! Semper Fi and Can Do I got to get one of these for my Station and thanks for the Great Reviews. Unfortunately my Persian Gulf War and Somalia days has caught up to me and I am Battling Health Issues. I still haven't Made the Continental Crossing on the Motorcycle or Transcontinental Trails but with Stage 2 Emphysema from the Oil Wells fires, Burn Pits and Other environmental crap. I want be able to handle the high altitudes either nor work on my tower for that matter. I digress and hope to here you on the Bands. Stay Safe and Blessing Julian De WV1Q AL
Outstanding! I knew I liked your channel, and then you started whistling the Marine's Hymn! Love it.
Thank you brother. Whenever I'm experiencing some sort of challenge or discomfort, those days come back fresh in my mind.
Semper fi
Julian oh8stn
@@OH8STN Semper Fi Brother!
@@OH8STN I recognized that immediately in watching you, I do the same with Anchors Aweigh, it's true.
I'm not going to turn this into interservice rivalry, I loved the Marines and had my ass saved by them more than once. I envy the lifelong brotherhood you guys have. mad respect.
Only thing you could do better would be feed it with balance feed line 4” open spaced to back of tuner or ant match. I would be curious if you could squeeze out a few more db but at a little harder installation. Nice tower 😉 I’m working with pines & maples at 80’ sadly only a 50’ cottonwood for the feed point so I’m in a hw dipole contemplating a loop or turnstile but going into HOA territory to put my elements may result in no wires going their way so may be better off trying a vertical from a boom out of the top of another maple I’m not using. Thank you for showing us mistakes and how to fix 😉
Is that you whistling my Marine Corps hymn? Keep up the fantastic videos. 73 Julian
"Don't forget that you're First Marines! Not all the Communists in hell can overrun you!"
I put up a full sized 160 meter square horizontal loop antenna. The performance is great.
How dou get you gui's in dark mode?
On Windows, search screen settings "Turn high contrast mode on". The profile I use is called "high contrast 1". In JS8Call, WSJTX, JTDX, you'll need to set the color settings as you like. FLDigi is practically impossible to setup good colors in, so I stopped trying. Winlink has a custom color setting under a menu from msinbscreen. You czn chznge font, gordground colir, background color, and size. Other apps adapt to Windows color profile settings.
Hope this helps
73
Julian oh8stn
@@OH8STN I use Linux and pi4b I have changed what I could. But I like yours. I run at least 2 rigs in the shack and it can get bright.
Well linux and the raspberry pie are more difficult. Just like windows the apps I mentioned can be customized within the app settings. For PAT Winlink, I installed a plugin for chromium called High Contrsst. This allowed me to invert the colors.
Random question, is it common to have a ladder across your roof there? Looks like everyone has some kinda roof access and ladder.
Yes actually it is. There's a couple of reasons. Firstly the fireman can easily get up on the roof. There's also ladders on the side of the house, allowing Escape is another route the outside is blocked by fire. Finally the chimney inspector uses those ladders to get up and down to check and clean the chimney once a year. Awesome observation :-)
@@OH8STN cool man thanks for the info. I like it. Didn’t mean to distract from the antenna video but was really wondering
Great vid Julian. I have the room for the loop. Love the low visibility. I prefer to fly under the radar for many reasons. The neighbors are the least of my concerns.
Did you use the drone to take measurements? If so, how? Was it a dji?
Thanks!
Going to play with mine today, see if I can take measurements between legs.
Indeed, but I slso knew the measurement of my property, and of the antenna. The DJI Mini 3 Pro shows the exact distance on the control screen. If you know the length of each leg, you can position the copter over an anchor point, then place a marker.
@@OH8STN I saw that marker thing on the map and thought that might be useful. Will play around with it on the ground for a bit.
Got mine up this morning. Hang on, let me edit that***.
Just fixed major coax issue.
Totally resonant in the SSB portion of 80, almost 1:1 in the extra portion of 20, same on the lower SSB portion of 40. Very happy, thank you very much for the video.
Are you still so enthusiastic about you skyloop ? I modeled your on MMANA and apparently might high gain on higher band in the south west direction. I will install one soon, homemade with twin line, a palstar at-auto balanced line and a system to move the wire from a corner to a side of the triangle in order to be directive. I also have an IC705, beautiful piece of technology. Thanks for your nice video !
My skyloop is EPIC! It is my favorite antenna👍
Not 12M too... ?? lol. My favorite band !!
I'm sure it works there, there was just no one on the band :-)
73
Julian oh8stn
@@OH8STN 12M is like 6. Sometimes it’s crazy busy and then other times nothing. Propagation is cool.
I was so happy seeing that being installed. Waaay better idea doing it from the safety of the bucket. Looks as high as a Ferris wheel
Did you model the loop? The higher the frequency, the lower the takeoff angle. My 160m loop works awesome on most bands.
160m loop wow👍
No modelling, just real world tests with this one. Performance has been better than expected. I don't know why I didn't consider an antenna like this years ago.
Nice.....................
thank you for watching
73
Julian oh8stn
Loved you whistling the Marine Hymn!
I have been wanting to upgrade the EFHW I am using at my home QTH for quite some time now. This might be just the ticket.
This antenna has been the home workhorse since it went up. It has insanely good performance and isn't all that expensive. Be sure to read the comments from other users.
73
Julian oh8stn
i like to buy this antenne for my house in the phlipines on the island off limasawa
pa2aa arjen
The skyloop is the best antenna I have. It needs lots of space, but it can hear a pin drop on the other side of the planet on a bad day.
73
Julian oh8stn
Great video, as always.
Does the Aircell choke need to have a standoff also, or just the transformer?
I’ve whistled that tune a few times before. Semper fi brother!
It's amazing how that tune just pops up when least expected.
I believe it doesn't hurt to move the choke away from the tower leg as well.
Semper fi 🙏
Be sure to get a non conductive stand off on that soon. Those zippies will last a month. Use Dacron rope. I also run a delta config with my loop. You will find that apex up or fed here on the tower, you should have a lower take off angle. Even more so if you bring the other 2 ends low on the tree. 10’. They are truly great antennas. With longer coax runs, I prefer tru open wire ladder line. It really makes the higher bands shine. I’m not sure what “transformer” they use. Maybe a 4:1 or 6:1 balun. I’m fully able to hear people others in my area will not. Hence the sig to noise ratio. I’m somewhat confused why you run the rf gain down on the rig with this setup? Anyway, I know those arial lifts are not cheap here. About 350$ per day. But I guess it’s worth it. When you get bored, lower the tree legs of loop and see what happens. Will look for a follow on swr charts “pre tuner”. Tnx as always
Thanks for the feedback. The RF gain is usually around 50%. Gof the tests, it was up all the way, preamp on. Even then the noise was less than S1 . That's just incredible !
The transformer is 2:5.1 unun. I have never seen this Transformer configuration before.
Thanks for the tips on getting things squared away. I'll be up on the tower again in a week or two. Just ordering the new pieces to get it squared away.
Thanks for this awesome feedback.
73
Julian oh8stn
@@OH8STN 👍🏿 devil dawg
Marine Hymn.. Were you there ?
86-90 3521
@@OH8STN Ah, Convinced you were 0321 👍 I am S2/NAVSOF
Bra!!!
You rock
I would love to do this, but max height here would be about 7m. Anyone with experience of Skywires that low?
I was reading about Sky wires and Sky Loops. that even 6-8 m height can be more effective than a dipole at the same height. If nothing else at least give it a try.
Epic Antenna, I want one!
Wouldn't give it up for anything. :D
73
Julian oh8stn
No tuner required?
Not on 80m
Nice video.
Thanks 🙏
Another comment that might be of interest on every multiple of the fundamental frequency the skyloop has gain in the direction away from the feedpoint. Of course in other directions it then has a small loss (the gain has to come from somewhere!).
Black zip ties.
Thanks I'll switch them out soon 🙏👍
My 12m fiberglass mast and my dipole inverted V is better installed at temporary location.
Sorry, it's my honest opinion!
Better installation next time :-)
HJ4AVG, 73
This is not designed as a temporary antenna. Moreover the dipole has less gain and more noise than a horizontal loop. That's a fact, not an opinion :-)