Politician and Mezepheles gives me hope for a game where the politician turns evil, learns their identities, then throws evil team under the bus to make a win for good.
I lol'ed at Ekin in the beginning when he said "I'm a cute teddy bear!" Ben tells him he has to be mad about lycan, and with the same cheer and enthusiasm as before Ekin says "I'm a ferocious teddy bear!" Love it.
I am a little confused by the statement, "a king would know instantly if it's a legion game." The king doesn't know anything until more than halfway through the game. Is there some interaction I'm missing?
Well I've asked in multiple videos, so I guess I finally got the evil Edd game I was asking for. Wasn't expecting an evil farmer which is just the silliest circumstance, but I guess I'll take what I can get lol. Now I will start to cry out for the Edd demon game!
I know this is an experimental script, but this game really made me worry about how this game can fall into an alpha gamer problem. Edd was allowed to direct actions and speak completely unchallenged, while Simon was talked over and ignored. I know that one of the ideas of BOC is that you still matter even dead, but there doesn't seem to be a way to keep loud and dominating players from running roughshod over the quiet, especially dead, players. And while that can be an issue in social games, it felt acute here and actually hurt the ignored players team.
Yeah. That was really a failing on my part. It's the ST's job to make sure everyone gets the chance to have an impact, but it can be particularly difficult in an online scenario to ensure that happens. This is one of the many reasons why I consider in-person Clocktower to be vastly superior to playing it over Discord or Zoom. There are certain body language related things that make it much easier to understand when people are trying to speak up and the like. - Ben
Some STs I play with have instituted a “Hands up” policy, where players who are struggling to be heard can raise their hands - either by saying “my hand’s up” in a discord message, or in the new app by broadcasting “hand’s up” or by pressing space. This gives the ST a signal that someone wants to talk but is getting talked over, so they can make sure that player gets the chance to speak. The Hell’s Librarian fabled can help with this. I’ve never seen it actually proc, but it does seem to make players more mindful. As a bonus, when I’m a player I LOVE using the “Something Bad” token to mark who seems sus.
Best evil game I’ve seen. Nobody put a foot wrong, even Pat looking super sus ended up leading to the goblin nomination so even that was good for evil. Emma & Edd MVPs obviously
23:10 [In Twitch chat] TFW even *ALEJO*, of all fuckin people, doesn't realize there's red numbers next to the night-time characters, indicating their night order.
I think as a minion in a Lil' Monsta game with a balloonist on the script, I would 100% have Lil' Monsta on good players for the first few nights at the very least.
@@Steev42 Custom script with a DA and put LM on whichever good player the DA is protecting would work. That's probably also why I haven't seen a custom with a DA and LM.
I have a question. I pre-ordered the game since i missed the KS and was wondering is there is a plan to get the experimental characters in an expansion or will they be Kickstarter exclusive? I think i will play this game to death once i get my fysical copy so would eventually like to get all the characters Thanks in advance
Hey Rick, thanks for your pre-order! The experimental characters coming with the Kickstarter version aren't exclusive - they're roles planned for future expansions that the Kickstarter backers are getting early access to. Everything 'experimental' that's coming with the Kickstarter will be released eventually in its own expansion. We don't believe in exclusives to do with gameplay - if it's worth playing with, everyone should be able to have access to it. - Evin
The Golem nominating a second time is more akin to a Butler only voting with their Master. Even if they suspect (or have been outright told) that they are drunk or poisoned, they should still not do it because it could risk them cheating. In most cases, a Golem will be proven when the player they first nominate dies, but there will be many cases where a Golem's nominee does not die and the game continues, so if the Golem attempts to nominate again then they risk cheating by doing so if not drunk or poisoned. - Evin
@@BloodontheClocktower this actually brings up one of my biggest gripes with the butler, theres no mechanical way of confirming it one way or the other. It would be so easy for the storyteller to just subtract one vote if the butlers chosen master doesnt vote and thus confirming that a butler attempted to vote but did not get through. The butler IMO could have been a more interesting role if it was more behind the grimoire mechanics instead of honor system. The Golem could have had a similar storyteller based mechanic where if they tried to nominate but are unable to it just wouldnt work. This method of soft confirming could have opened up some more interesting strategies both from storyteller and player sides.
omg I feel for Simon so much this game. Not only did most people just ignore/talk over him/leave him out of the loop when if they had just listened to him they would have won the game on like day 2. It also seems like he just left for the final 20 mins after asking one final time about executing Pat (and being ignored once more) and like.... no-one noticed? which, fair - at that point the game is no fun. like ig it must be so hard to mediate convos and ensure everyone is able to be heard as ST but, ouch, overwhelming personalities are not usually as noticable as they were in this game.
This was a crazy game, which has raised several questions in my mind: Politician poisoned when killed. Does that nullify their ability like it does other characters? I have no idea. I know that the Mez can die, and the word will still work, but what if Mez is droisoned when they die? For that matter, what if they are alive and poisoned when the word is said? I assume neither scenario cancels the effect. How would a King have more info about a Legion game, early on?
@@diamondsky3787 I found the answer to those, but not for the King question. Mez ability is lost when they die. If alive, AND not droisoned on the NIGHT the word was said, it works. Politician's effect happens at the end of game, and only then does droison matter. I have to assume that if they were droisoned at death, they remain that way.
So when Daddy Ben pulls the evil team together into one cottage to vote on Lil’ Monsta’s babysitter, can’t the the others see them all in one room on Discord? Or can they not see the cottages?
If The goblin had the lil monsta at the end and publicly claimed goblin when they were nominated, if they were then executed would the evil team win cause the public goblin was executed or would good team win cause they executed lil monsta?.
@@BloodontheClocktower This is due to the result being a tie, which the good team always wins. The evil team would "win" from having the claimed goblin executed, and the good tea would win from the demon being dead.
Wow that was a bullshit script. I am glad the players had fun. If I was a good player I would not. It was not even close. I think I know why this game is not for me. Everyone always wants to be in the evil team. It is more fun. To me that means the game is not balanced.
I think that's just a side effect of the Mezepheles. And it's as much information gathering as it is 'wanting to be evil'. Everyone who didn't turn learned that either someone turned evil or the person who gave them a word was faking it. Neither solves the game, but it's definitely info you could use.
I agree the game is not balanced, but statistically Evil usually loses. People want to be on the evil team mostly because it is rare, the chance of being good is about double that of being evil. Switching to evil is even rarer, which is why it is enticing to many people. In the case of this game, it had to do with a lot of luck and the storyteller erring on the side of evil a bit more than usual. I think Ben made solid choices though, except perhaps, on the last night. In my opinion, killing Ekin would have been the better choice, I think. Giving Damien his last bit of info, showing Pat again. That would have made up a bit for his earlier pro evil choices. In terms of luck the word could have been used on some less useful, Capelli could have chosen Edd or Simon or Chris or Pat on night two. While killing the snitch was not harmful, it was not useful either. The Golem could (and should) have fired on day two. A time when he can still get easily killed. I could go on, but yes, the game has quite some luck elements. The Game can often be decided purely by luck and is not really well-balanced. But if you can only enjoy, well-balanced skill based games, that just means you might have to go two or three games to get a game you can enjoy. If you can't do that, then the game is not for you. I think the game is not for competitive gamers, that need to win to have fun or that need the game to be on a knifes balance every game. Most players suited to the game can enjoy the little moments, even in a game where their side is fated to lose from the start.
Personally, I prefer playing on the Good Team and know plenty of people who do as well. In a group of players who know each other well, a Mezepheles will have a good sense of who likes to play as Evil and will approach them, so it may appear that everyone wants to play as Evil when really it's just the people that the Mezephele's chooses to approach. In any case, the game gives Good players plenty of reasons to lie as well, so the joy of bluffing isn't limited to the Evil Team. And if you think this script is unbalanced, we've had a couple of games on stream where Adam has just hit 'random' on the script generator and run whatever's come out. Always a delightful mess - and if your group is fine with a delightful mess, that's fine too. ;) - Evin
To be fair, this is a very, very high-level script made almost entirely of experimental beta characters. It's definitely not the sort of thing that I'd recommend using to introduce new players to the game, nor to judge the game's quality or balance. It's a bit like watching a video of some extremely experienced football players running an experimental game where the goalposts have been replaced with bread sticks and all players must moonwalk when carrying the ball, then saying "this game looks terrible". It's kinda going to unless you're familiar enough with it to understand that it's a deliberate departure from the norm.
Politician and Mezepheles gives me hope for a game where the politician turns evil, learns their identities, then throws evil team under the bus to make a win for good.
I lol'ed at Ekin in the beginning when he said "I'm a cute teddy bear!" Ben tells him he has to be mad about lycan, and with the same cheer and enthusiasm as before Ekin says "I'm a ferocious teddy bear!" Love it.
someone should make a script called "long days", will Cult Leader, Gossip, juggler, and anything else that will drive up the day length
so da, zombuul, amnesiac for long sidequest......maybe some confusion roles that jack up the time even more? mutant, cerenovus, etc?
"feels like playing SNV in Chinese and on a rollercoaster"
me who is planning on running a game of BOTC in Chinese for my foreign language class:
I am a little confused by the statement, "a king would know instantly if it's a legion game." The king doesn't know anything until more than halfway through the game. Is there some interaction I'm missing?
Well I've asked in multiple videos, so I guess I finally got the evil Edd game I was asking for. Wasn't expecting an evil farmer which is just the silliest circumstance, but I guess I'll take what I can get lol. Now I will start to cry out for the Edd demon game!
I know this is an experimental script, but this game really made me worry about how this game can fall into an alpha gamer problem. Edd was allowed to direct actions and speak completely unchallenged, while Simon was talked over and ignored. I know that one of the ideas of BOC is that you still matter even dead, but there doesn't seem to be a way to keep loud and dominating players from running roughshod over the quiet, especially dead, players. And while that can be an issue in social games, it felt acute here and actually hurt the ignored players team.
Yeah. That was really a failing on my part. It's the ST's job to make sure everyone gets the chance to have an impact, but it can be particularly difficult in an online scenario to ensure that happens. This is one of the many reasons why I consider in-person Clocktower to be vastly superior to playing it over Discord or Zoom. There are certain body language related things that make it much easier to understand when people are trying to speak up and the like. - Ben
Some STs I play with have instituted a “Hands up” policy, where players who are struggling to be heard can raise their hands - either by saying “my hand’s up” in a discord message, or in the new app by broadcasting “hand’s up” or by pressing space. This gives the ST a signal that someone wants to talk but is getting talked over, so they can make sure that player gets the chance to speak.
The Hell’s Librarian fabled can help with this. I’ve never seen it actually proc, but it does seem to make players more mindful. As a bonus, when I’m a player I LOVE using the “Something Bad” token to mark who seems sus.
Daddy Ben has the best job in the world
Best evil game I’ve seen. Nobody put a foot wrong, even Pat looking super sus ended up leading to the goblin nomination so even that was good for evil. Emma & Edd MVPs obviously
23:10 [In Twitch chat] TFW even *ALEJO*, of all fuckin people, doesn't realize there's red numbers next to the night-time characters, indicating their night order.
Yes! YESSSSSS! I love how this ended!
“I’m a ferocious teddy bear” was the cutest moment of Blood on the Clock Tower that I have ever heard. I love Ekin.
I think as a minion in a Lil' Monsta game with a balloonist on the script, I would 100% have Lil' Monsta on good players for the first few nights at the very least.
good players are told "you are holding the lil monsta token"
@@AlexH274 oh. Yeah, that would make a difference.
@@Steev42 Custom script with a DA and put LM on whichever good player the DA is protecting would work. That's probably also why I haven't seen a custom with a DA and LM.
I have a question. I pre-ordered the game since i missed the KS and was wondering is there is a plan to get the experimental characters in an expansion or will they be Kickstarter exclusive? I think i will play this game to death once i get my fysical copy so would eventually like to get all the characters
Thanks in advance
Hey Rick, thanks for your pre-order! The experimental characters coming with the Kickstarter version aren't exclusive - they're roles planned for future expansions that the Kickstarter backers are getting early access to. Everything 'experimental' that's coming with the Kickstarter will be released eventually in its own expansion. We don't believe in exclusives to do with gameplay - if it's worth playing with, everyone should be able to have access to it.
- Evin
I was just thinking I should look to find more BotC. Good timing on my part, I guess
Could a Courtier use their ability on a spent Golem so that they’ll be free to nominate? And if so, what if the Courtier has been poisoned?
The Golem nominating a second time is more akin to a Butler only voting with their Master. Even if they suspect (or have been outright told) that they are drunk or poisoned, they should still not do it because it could risk them cheating. In most cases, a Golem will be proven when the player they first nominate dies, but there will be many cases where a Golem's nominee does not die and the game continues, so if the Golem attempts to nominate again then they risk cheating by doing so if not drunk or poisoned.
- Evin
@@BloodontheClocktower this actually brings up one of my biggest gripes with the butler, theres no mechanical way of confirming it one way or the other. It would be so easy for the storyteller to just subtract one vote if the butlers chosen master doesnt vote and thus confirming that a butler attempted to vote but did not get through. The butler IMO could have been a more interesting role if it was more behind the grimoire mechanics instead of honor system.
The Golem could have had a similar storyteller based mechanic where if they tried to nominate but are unable to it just wouldnt work. This method of soft confirming could have opened up some more interesting strategies both from storyteller and player sides.
omg I feel for Simon so much this game. Not only did most people just ignore/talk over him/leave him out of the loop when if they had just listened to him they would have won the game on like day 2. It also seems like he just left for the final 20 mins after asking one final time about executing Pat (and being ignored once more) and like.... no-one noticed? which, fair - at that point the game is no fun.
like ig it must be so hard to mediate convos and ensure everyone is able to be heard as ST but, ouch, overwhelming personalities are not usually as noticable as they were in this game.
This was a crazy game, which has raised several questions in my mind:
Politician poisoned when killed. Does that nullify their ability like it does other characters? I have no idea.
I know that the Mez can die, and the word will still work, but what if Mez is droisoned when they die? For that matter, what if they are alive and poisoned when the word is said? I assume neither scenario cancels the effect.
How would a King have more info about a Legion game, early on?
actually when the Mez dies in an execution before anyone turned evil the word wouldn't go through, about legion I don't know
@@diamondsky3787 I found the answer to those, but not for the King question. Mez ability is lost when they die. If alive, AND not droisoned on the NIGHT the word was said, it works. Politician's effect happens at the end of game, and only then does droison matter. I have to assume that if they were droisoned at death, they remain that way.
@@darbyl3872 ye I haven't understood the king knowing legion too
@@darbyl3872politician ability works while they are dead, since the role says so. So it only matters if they are poisoned whilst dead
So when Daddy Ben pulls the evil team together into one cottage to vote on Lil’ Monsta’s babysitter, can’t the the others see them all in one room on Discord? Or can they not see the cottages?
The cottages are set up so that when you're in one you can't see what's going on in the other cottages. Secrecy is maintained. :)
- Evin
If The goblin had the lil monsta at the end and publicly claimed goblin when they were nominated, if they were then executed would the evil team win cause the public goblin was executed or would good team win cause they executed lil monsta?.
If the Goblin is executed while holding LM, and claiming Goblin, the Good Team still wins.
- Evin
@@BloodontheClocktower This is due to the result being a tie, which the good team always wins.
The evil team would "win" from having the claimed goblin executed, and the good tea would win from the demon being dead.
Simon and Chiz have very similar voices.
Awesome game
Did Ben snitch?
Whaaaaat?
Wow that was a bullshit script. I am glad the players had fun. If I was a good player I would not. It was not even close. I think I know why this game is not for me. Everyone always wants to be in the evil team. It is more fun. To me that means the game is not balanced.
I think that's just a side effect of the Mezepheles. And it's as much information gathering as it is 'wanting to be evil'. Everyone who didn't turn learned that either someone turned evil or the person who gave them a word was faking it. Neither solves the game, but it's definitely info you could use.
I agree the game is not balanced, but statistically Evil usually loses. People want to be on the evil team mostly because it is rare, the chance of being good is about double that of being evil. Switching to evil is even rarer, which is why it is enticing to many people.
In the case of this game, it had to do with a lot of luck and the storyteller erring on the side of evil a bit more than usual. I think Ben made solid choices though, except perhaps, on the last night. In my opinion, killing Ekin would have been the better choice, I think. Giving Damien his last bit of info, showing Pat again. That would have made up a bit for his earlier pro evil choices.
In terms of luck the word could have been used on some less useful, Capelli could have chosen Edd or Simon or Chris or Pat on night two. While killing the snitch was not harmful, it was not useful either. The Golem could (and should) have fired on day two. A time when he can still get easily killed. I could go on, but yes, the game has quite some luck elements.
The Game can often be decided purely by luck and is not really well-balanced. But if you can only enjoy, well-balanced skill based games, that just means you might have to go two or three games to get a game you can enjoy. If you can't do that, then the game is not for you. I think the game is not for competitive gamers, that need to win to have fun or that need the game to be on a knifes balance every game. Most players suited to the game can enjoy the little moments, even in a game where their side is fated to lose from the start.
Personally, I prefer playing on the Good Team and know plenty of people who do as well. In a group of players who know each other well, a Mezepheles will have a good sense of who likes to play as Evil and will approach them, so it may appear that everyone wants to play as Evil when really it's just the people that the Mezephele's chooses to approach. In any case, the game gives Good players plenty of reasons to lie as well, so the joy of bluffing isn't limited to the Evil Team.
And if you think this script is unbalanced, we've had a couple of games on stream where Adam has just hit 'random' on the script generator and run whatever's come out. Always a delightful mess - and if your group is fine with a delightful mess, that's fine too. ;)
- Evin
To be fair, this is a very, very high-level script made almost entirely of experimental beta characters. It's definitely not the sort of thing that I'd recommend using to introduce new players to the game, nor to judge the game's quality or balance. It's a bit like watching a video of some extremely experienced football players running an experimental game where the goalposts have been replaced with bread sticks and all players must moonwalk when carrying the ball, then saying "this game looks terrible". It's kinda going to unless you're familiar enough with it to understand that it's a deliberate departure from the norm.
It is good to know that some players enjoy being on the good team. The streams and playthrough shown do not get that impression.