American living in Europe for over a decade. We've had one of these heat pump-based tumblers for the past seven years. Were I to go back to the States, I'd get one of these in a heartbeat. Absolutely zero sense to keep burning natural gas in the home and venting out conditioned outside.
ok the question was the cost to heat/ cool the replacement air, without showing all the math and assuming a delta of 30 and a efficient heat pump system seer 20 your looking at 2 to 3 dollars a load with a standard drier.
@@michaelhill6451 The moist air is drawn through a cold evaporator, which condenses the moisture, which is then sent to a drain or tank. The now-dryer air is then drawn through the condenser, which reheats it prior to re-entering the drum. I believe some heat pump dryers have a water tank that needs to be emptied regularly, and some can be plumbed to a drain. Some people do exhaust traditional dryers into the room, which is nuts.
@@pkeeneyActually they all have both nowadays. They come with a simple water drawer that fits one use (if drying towels), or two uses if drying some other wash loads. But if you dont want to empty this drawer each time you can detach the small hose, and directly attach it to a sink or other method of direct water outlet. The only disadvantage of modern inverter-evaporator heat pump dryer is the time it takes to do the job. Which is usally about 3 hours, while the older dryers were MUCH faster. (But keep in mind that the the inverter ones use much less energy in 3 hours, than the older ones did in just half an hour!) Ah, and i forget: you can actually dry anything in these heat-pump dryers, even clothes that actually say: no tumbledrying, no dryer on their label, because they only get up to about 40degree Celsius, and not as hot as the older ones.
@@paperburn Depending on your electricity cost/provider and type of dryer , you are looking at about 20 to 60c a load IF you can get a cheap/variable tariff, and like yeah maybe 1-2 dollars otherwise. Cheaper than a RESISTIVE dryer, but a gas dryer will be a similar price to a heat pump dryer on a cheap/variable electric tariff and way cheaper than one on a standard tarrif, at around 30-50c a load for a gas dryer. However, a heat pump dryer will also serve as some heating in winter as it doesnt have to vent, and what you are really paying for is basically zero chance of fire. If you have the know how, its also way more possible to run a heat pump dryer of local battery/generation from EITHER home renewables like solar panels or a generator in an emergency. The middle option is to buy a big powerful moveable dehumidifier-can dry laundry bone dry in 4 hours or so just from being near a drying rack, works as a regular dehumidifier too, more expensive to run than a heat pump dryer due to not tumbling the clothes or confining them in a small space, but WAY WAY WAY cheaper to buy. You can get a 5-room-house rated dehumidifier for
I'm 27 and do landscaping for a living. I really appreciate you sharing what's going on with your skin. Its a good reminder on why not to skip out on the sunscreen. I know some of the guys regularly forget or don't use any at all. I'm going to educate my crew better on this. Thank you Matt!
You may want to check out the impact of high Omega 6 (seed oils) and their highly oxidative state which continues after consumption and is incorporated into your cellular walls. Elimination of excess seed oils will eliminate need for sun screen and may decrease income potential for dermatologists.
@@maxaroney Eating a healthy diet is no substitute for proper sun protection. A healthy diet is good for overall health but will not prevent UV damage to your skin.
other benefit to the dryer, it runs on 110. you can literally drop it anywhere, plug it in, and good to go. Regarding size, you can absolutely put more in there than what you ran on the video. I came from a 5.5cube Samsung set, and other than large comforters, there is actually little difference in the load sizes. you can basically fill the washer drum up to full. It actually runs loads through faster than the old samsung set did. And the smaller size / stacked allowed us to put in upstairs vs main floor. huge benefit.
I sure love you, Matt. Glad your face situation isn't too serious and you caught it early. Thank you for all you do to teach your brothers and sisters about good building practices. You're the man!
I have been using a full size Whirlpool heat pump dryer for years. It's huge. I can fit a king size comforter in it. Those ones you have are tiny. You can get bigger if you want.
Matt thanks for telling people about skin care in your younger years. I am 76 and have had 4 procedures to remove skin cancer. Two times from my left ear, one time from my nose and one on my left neck. In my job I did a lot of driving.
Everyone 50+ on BOTH sides of my family has either died from skin cancer, or had skin cancer removed at least once. When they were young proper care wasn't really known, but it's so easy to take care of yourself now. So many people don't bother though. There really needs to be better public education about it.
A word of caution for anyone purchasing a heat pump dryer. *DO NOT* use dryer sheets. The film that comes off those is so fine it will clog and eventually ruin the lint trap and plinth filter. Additionally, if you use fabric softener you will need to clean the entire interior of the dryer weekly. The softener coats the internal components and will cause the dryer to not be able to read the dryness of the clothing. Neither fabric softener or dryer sheets are a necessary additive, and if you must, miele’s dryer have scents that infuse into your clothing.
Matt, great video.. Here's a rough calculation for you on the cost of reheating cold air in winter or cooling hot air in summer, in case of a standard vented dryer. Heating Main Assumptions: (1) You have no EnergyRecovery System (2) Your COP for heating is 1 (if use heat pump, this could be 2-4), (3) Indoor/Outdoor Temp difference is 40degF, (4) typical air density .075 lbm/ft^3, typical cp-air 0.24 Btu/lbm-F. (6) 9000ft^3/load and 365 loads/year. (7) little difference in heat added to interior space with vented or unvented. Heating Caculations: Q = mass*cp*deltaT, where m = density*Volume*365 = 246,375lbm ; Q = 246,375 * 0.24 * 40 * kwH / 3413 Btu = 693 kWhr ; Cost = $0.114 * 693 = $79. As you can see with the standard vented units, you spend about as much money restoring the household air as you do running the unit. Aside, I'm trying to transition from Aerospace/Mechanical/System Engineer to an MEP Engineer but I can't get an interview without direct experience.. if anyone knows anyone in North Jersey looking for an MEP engineer, please send them my way!
Thanks for running the numbers, saved me from doing it myself. At the approximate $140 dollars per year savings in this scenario, I think the cost premium break even point compared to a standard gas/electric dryer is likely close to the expected life, so in the end, no savings.
@@D2O2 The fed is currently offering a 30% tax credit for buying one and is supposed to start offering rebates around mid 2023. I forget the exact amount but I think it was up to $750 in rebates plus the 30% credit which should almost pay for one.
Some parts of the country do not have electricity as low as $0.114/kWhr, plus possible peak demand rates... $0.20-$0.55+/kWhr depending on time of day usage. One could be looking at $160-380/yr for HVAC usage plus the initial standard electric dryer usage increase of $95-260/yr. The point is, your mileage may vary. For certain parts of the country, if a mid-priced washer/dryer set is $1500-2000, the ROI could be 4-6 years at the low end. Energy aside, I still would not get on board until there's a unit from a reliable brand that can handle bulky items. (If such a brand still exists? Sorry, that's a whole other discussion)
Just ordered a 7.0 cubic LG heat pump dryer today, on sale for 1299.00 on LG website. Also noticed Home Depot and Lowe’s had them also. Ben’s appliance just did a review and tear down, one of the best on the market!
In my area (coastal California), we often put dryers in unconditioned space. I still like the lower energy usage and you explanation of how they work is the first that's made sense to me. Thank you!
We had a smaller apt sized condensing unit and it was great mostly. Too small to do bedding (that sucked) but what I did love is that it spun both ways. So wind you clothes up in a ball, then reverse and unwind. That was my most favorite part. The biggest negative is that in a small space it injected to much humidity. So no power laundry days where you kick out a bunch. And on hot summer days...will they just got hotter. Would have been inclined to turn it on before work, but I don't like leaving appliances on when away and then there was work from home...
Early ventless units (pre-HP) actually vented into your living space, causing heat, moisture, and lint buildup. It's great to see they've finally gotten past that. I notice some of the units can run on 120V, a real plus for apartment dwellers, especially the ventless washer/drier combo unit. Electric use is partially keyed to drum size. 130 kWh for those around 4 cuft, but double that for the larger drums, which can hold double the clothes. (Heat pumps are that much more efficient than heating coils.) The cheapest large drum, external vent, coil heated dryers are rated around 690 kWh. My friend "solved" the air loss by having a fairly tight door on his laundry closet. A intake vent is opened when doing laundry so he'd lose about 30 cubic feet of conditioned air, partially recovered because his exhaust vent was surrounded by an intake pipe connected to that vent.
Most do not appreciate the costs to use appliances and how the appliances affect our indoor environment. I hate that by design appliances like the refrigerator, dishwasher, and oven dump their heat into the kitchen without an option to reject that heat outside. The kitchen and bath vents are other points of gross inefficiency. Whole-house heat recovery and ventilation is a good start but there needs to be more integration of appliances.
Have you looked into the new GE profile two in one washer dryer. It is fairly new and offers the benefit of being ventless as well as not needing to transfer laundry from washer to dryer. And it is 4.8 cubic feet which addresses your size concern. Runs on a 110v circuit (no need for a 220v plug), has GE microban for mold free (plus the dryer function evaporates the water so less moisture for mold formation) and has the GE auto soap dispenser system. Right now on sale at Costco for about 2k.
Very interesting video. Great public service announcement about skin cancer. Glad you caught it and wishing you great health in the future. One thing you should add to your cost calculation is total cost of doing several small loads to cost if fewer larger loads. It may be that the MEILE is not actually as cheep to run as you suggest.
I've had one now for 3 years and love it for all the reasons you enumerated and with the caveat that being single living alone size is actually perfect but for a family it might be a little tight. My only negative is the dryer is a little loud with the heat pump hum/buzz.
Anyone who’s had these Miele heat pump dryers is aware they absolutely take longer to dry clothing, bedding, towels, etc than a vented dryer. In large part because they operate at much lower temperatures which is MUCH gentler on the garments. I would also say we are able to wash a Cal King size wool quilt, as long as it’s only item in load. The TwinDos is great, we have it in our BigSky home. Our primary residence is in Boulder which predates that system. We had their standard condensing ventless dryer in Boulder but after experiencing how much better the heat pump dryer is I gave the condensing unit to my daughter for her home and bought a heat pump to replace it. We’ve never had a single service call on our Miele laundry units. I like the size but we’re empty nesters and thus 1/3 the occupant size of you…though 2 dogs and 2 cats keep things interesting 🤣. Good advice on the sunscreen, happy recovery.
Thanks for the PSA on skin cancer issue. I recognized those red blotches right away as I've gone through that ordeal 2 or 3 times. That stuff will make you miserable for weeks but it's pretty effective and much better than excisions and stitches. Don't miss those dermo appointments - they can save your life.
What's the treatment called? I'm going to ask my Dermatologist about it ...unfortunately, they seem more interested in selling cosmetic procedures than problem-focused treatment
I've experienced actinic keratitis on my ears and scalp a couple of times now. The medical treatment offered has been cryotherapy (liquid nitrogen poured on your skin - not fun) but I've had equally good results from a comfrey salve. Takes a bit longer and can be messy, but no pain or redness
@@NightSky777 I went through this last year and it was an overwhelmingly miserable experience. Matt's treatment/reaction looks "typical". My entire face and ears reacted to the treatment (which is actually a good thing), but it's painful. Fluorouracil is the treatment cream I was prescribed. I would recommend doing smaller areas over a longer period of time to prevent potentially being overwhelmed if all skin reacts. Again, don't forget your ears - we often forget to protect our ears.
@@infiniteyep5224 Thank you! Greatly appreciated! I knew 2 Army Colonels who had that done. Right, wasn't pretty, but their skin was great afterwards. ...I even asked my Dermatologist about it for me, but she just shrugged it off. I'm going to press her again about it.
I’m here in MN, and I just want to mention, 10 degrees isn’t cold. But this is exactly why I want to replace mine with a heat pump dryer. I hate paying to heat air and send it out of my house.
Just having a duct here in Ottawa can cool down our laundry room quite a bit during winter. We hand as much as possible but still use the dryer for towels, sheets and my workshirts.
Hahahaha great content overall, but certainly gave a thumbs up for the AK PSA at the end! I wish every content creator had such fact-based health tidbits in their content, peppered in like mid roll ads but for the public good.
Interesting video. For a long time I have been wondering why builders and appliance manufacturers have not done anything to prevent dryers from blowing such huge amounts of conditioned air outside.
You didn't mention the extreme itch AK brings to the table! Ex farmer and a road warrior who developed it just before I turned 45. Brutal experience and now know that long sleeve shirts, hats and sunscreen help keep you safe. Waking up in the morning having scratched yourself bloody in the night is not fun. Might get some weird looks on the golf course, but beats the alternative. Be well and stay safe.
Yes, since this is pretty serious, I hope Matt will go back to the doctor when he shaves that beard, so he can get the rest of his face checked out. Skin cancer is nothing to mess around with. I knew a builder who was doing his own roofing in July in the South. I couldn't believe he would do that himself because he had red-blonde hair. At least he wore one of those wide brimmed hats with a neck shield down the back.
I stopped the video when you said (13:50) “I am teaching my kids to do their own laundry.” My jaw nearly dropped. Best idea I have ever heard. The ventless dryer? Totally makes sense to me.
Ducted dryers and the aluminum vent hose issue can be solved with some work, and once it is, youre done. Im not dissing these, and would be useful in a ton of places say for a new build, a reno, or places like condos. The MagVent MV-180 Magnetic Dryer Vent Coupling is a great way to get your dryer back as far as possible, and unhook for cleaning because its magnets. Been using one for 4 years now, and its a great solution. As for the explanation of dryer vented air and the air coming from somewhere outside, Ive been running a ducted dryer in houses for decades now in Canada, and we have been fine. -40 it wont matter, unless you have 10% humdity, you are going to get some frost in the corners of your windows. Its science, cold air and glass. And I dont know about you, with a family, its not very often that doors to the outside are shut for hours and hours in a row. Theres no perfection when it comes to things like that.
True. During a blizzard all of the north facing windows in my house had condensation on the glass and the dryer wasn’t even on. The wind cools the glass much faster.
Matt, love everything about what you do and appreciate your time and efforts. Hats off and two thumbs up. But man, if I can be honest, it is way way past time to change/ update the build show intro music.
I live in a desert where the humidity is almost always pretty low. I have a regular electric clothes dryer in my garage and it vents into the garage, not outside. The 3/4 cup of water that it pulls out of the wet clothes barely raises the moisture level of the air in the garage. I wouldn't do that in the humid Southeast, but it works fine here.
Thanks for the insights! Long time user of an speedqueen industrial gas dryer (household of 4 with pets) and having moved with these units 2x under 5 years was not an easy task considering the vent system. After 3 years working abroad and moving back we’ve just bought a ventless dryer from LG and I was fearful whether it would be safe to put these units at a separate storage cage in the roofed open area of the apartment complex were moving into because of the heat. I think with your review I’ll be considering putting our units in our bathroom, since its quite big.
We had a Whirlpool hybrid heat pump ventless drier that we used for 3-4 years. There were several issues that caused us to quit using it. My wife did not like how long it could take to dry loads sometimes without using the heating elements along with the heat pump component. Dry warm days caused faster drying times compared to cooler humid days which is a function of the dew point. The big problem was the ventless part. The dryer worked well ventless to begin with. As the filters aged the filtration became less and less effective which allowed lint to get into the main body of the machine. Lint would start to effect the drying times as the coils would become plugged, just like your refrigerator coils can become plugged, causing the heat pump to work harder for less results. It got to the point that I had to almost completely disassemble the dryer to get access to the heat exchanger coils to clean them. Not everyone can do that, every time you take it apart the seals get damaged so that the internals accumulate more lint faster inside. It was a good idea until it wasn't. I understand Matt's desire to keep the warm or cool air in his house, the ventless dryer comes with its own cost in maintenance and running cost which may or may not offset the additional heating and cooling costs by venting some of that air outside and pulling air from the outside to replace the air that was vented. Our heat pump dryer is in storage now, I am thinking about seeing if I can convert it into a heater for the shop. Vented gas dryers still rule here.
I wish driers, refrigerators, and ovens had a summer/winter setting. In the winter, I want the excess heat vented into my house. In the summer I want it vented out. (And in summer a drier could have an external intake too.)
My dad tried venting the dryer inside in the trailer we were living in... which resulting in mold on the walls, since all moisture the dryer blows out is obviously going to condense on all the outside walls. I agree that a dryer should have both an input and and output hose, just like some wood stoves and portable air conditioners do.
Live in the UK and we have a similar setup. Full load we have mid size 8kg /10lb washing machine and dryer. You can get bigger but we don't need to. 8kg dryer is around 500 gbp so 650 to 700 usd. We set our one to cupboard dry and it takes about 1 and a half hours washing machine 56 min. Would not go back to the old school clothes come out great. We heat our house 6 months of the year so we would have had to heat the outside air from an aver of 7 degrees to 19
So you mentioned in text that these seems to be well built while talking about the price of these units, just FYI Miele is a premium brand, probably the most premium, I haven't heard of anyone having machines from that lasting less than 19 years and usually closer to 30 (the machine that "died" at 19 years was a dishwasher and it worked fine mechanically still, the wheel that adjusted the programs and all got worn out) so expect a long life time on those. The more mid range brands like Bosch usually have a better cost to performance ratio, and of course. always research extensively before buying anything from Samsung and LG.
If anyone else clicked on this video, b/c they were curious about these dryers, AND THEN SAW THAT HE LOOKED LIKE HE GOT IN A FIGHT WITH A 2x4 & lost... He talks about that @16:20 That aside, interesting video.
Also Matt, in the winter time all that energy used by the dryer will assist with the heating load. A vented dryer dumps all that heat outside plus having to replace that air with incoming cold air. So a double win.
I bought a ventless LG washer/dryer back in 2008. It was JUNK! It blew all the water that it removed from the wet laundry out onto the floor below in the form of hot steam. It took me 6 months to get Home Depot to accept my return. They claimed it was a special order and non-returnable. But I bought it off the floor… Anyway, I had to remove this washer/dryer before it caused any water damage on my newly installed wood flooring. I had to put a towel on the floor in front of the machine to catch the dripping water. This towel needed constant replacement, as it got soaked a couple times for each load. The laundry never fully dried, and it was, in fact, hot when I removed it. I called a factory authorized repairman out to work on it, and he was puzzled too! LG and Home Depot tried to claim that the machine worked as designed and was not defective (they were VERY reluctant to allow my return). Final analysis: DO NOT BUY A VENTLESS DRYER! The water that is in your wet laundry has to go SOMEWHERE! Without a vent, it goes into your laundry room as steam, and condenses out of the air 😊as water on the floor! This causes slip hazards, and can be very dangerous! This is the voice of experience! Don’t make the same mistake I did.
So where does the moisture go? Into the house? If so, how does that effect humidity levels in the house and potential mold issues? This also brings to mind bathroom fans and ventilation hoods. Will those depressurize the house as well? If those types of ventilation are not in a house then the air quality suffers, correct? What is the right balance of energy efficiency and quality of air in the house?
Remember that heat pump appliances have refrigeration systems which require more frequent and more expensive maintenance than conventional gas or resistance heated electric dryers. Are there tests proving that these filters really trap all the lint and other particulates from the clothes? Did you notice any changes in your HVAC filters after you installed this dryer? Thanks for the tip on skin protection.
Getting a good model from one of the repute brands like Miele is a great choice. The fact these are becoming more widely available in the US is great. Prices should come down, and if on the off chance it does need service, you can actually find someone to service it. The tech is also advancing fairly quickly, better efficiency or drying, ect...
So several points I've found with our "American" brand HP dryer. I think it's a hybrid and has a resistance coil to get them warmer. - it does make the laundry room warmer. Big plus for northeast. - The extra steps for lint traps/cleaning is a non issue for all users after the first week. - the extra cost was an easy sell to my wife especially without having to deal with an ugly vent pipe. - play with the settings, it can make those still wet complaints go away. - we're only two adults and a baby, so our use is low, but I think it will keep up for 4 or 5 adults - we've had few problems with a king size comforter, though occasionally will add another fifteen minutes for wet pockets - if you're doing any energy retrofitting or care of building envelope piercing, give them a shot
The issue with heat pump dryers is that most of them are specified to work at their rated effeciencies and dry times at 19degc ( 66 F ) ambient room temperature, which is fine if you live in a warm climate. They will , of course work, down to about 10C ( 50 F ) , but the COP goes down massively from about 3 times to about 1.5 or less.
If you're in Minnesota and you're pulling in 10F air from outside then none of it is causing ice or condensation on the windows. It's below freezing; the air will have no moisture in it.
Good info. For those that have cold winters, venting into the house( filtered of course) with a conventional dryer can be good as the heat stays in the house as well as the moisture. Not for the summer obviously. Thanks for the skin advice. B safe. Love your channel.
I have seen products sold to make doing this easy, but I wouldn’t want to introduce additional moisture, personally I’d like to see the dryer vent go through a heat exchange so that the heat can be recovered into the house sans moisture, we don’t want more condensation on windows and moldy corners.
I live in Florida and I keep my washer and dryer in the garage, so the ACH is not on my list of concerns for a dryer. At one time I had considered buying an all-in-one set it and forget it type washer dryer combo machine for the convenience
I live in Ireland, but have a similar Miele set. I use the drawer and drain it into my toilet cistern just to reduce my water usage. Not a huge difference but I have a toilet just off my utility room so it's easy.
Even though he puts powder into the detergent dispenser, don't do it without checking whether the machine can handle powder in there. Some dispensers will clog and possibly be damaged.
My biggest issue with the auto dose system is my extreme preference for commercial detergents, both in the dishwasher and laundry. But I do love Miele's appliances, have been dealing with their vacuum cleaners for years!
You can apparently override the twindose system if you want by going into the service menu. You then just use whatever detergents you choose by using the drawer like any other front loader.
If you're poor and it's in the winter you could hang some clotheslines in your basement and set up a Craigslist dehumidifier. And the waste heat would "chimney effect" up into the rest of your house.
Great video. Never thought about these before. I regards to the comparison to electric dryers, we also didn't take into account that a normal electric dryer can accomodate a much larger load each time so more clothes are dried with the higher amount of energy.
Each has pros and cons. I personally prefer the vented dryers but if I was moving the laundry room to an area that couldn’t vent outside well I’d consider a ventless dryer.
That was taken in account. The energy consumption estimates are for yearly use by an average family. So, same volume of clothes regardless of how many loads are needed.
Hi Matt, I have the same dryer. Fantastic machine. It gets really hot during the drying cycle though. It’s noticeable in the room. I’m redoing my AC and I’m wondering if you had your mechanical engineer account for the dryer to calculate the load of that laundry room. I’m sure it’s not insignificant. I’m in climate zone 2A so mostly cooling. Thanks!
Thanks for posting with your red face. It’s good to spread awareness about this health stuff. I would have been too self conscious to do it myself. The whole time I was watching this video I was wondering if you got in a fight with a raccoon or something ;)
I have Miele eco comfort heat pump tumble dryer and used to have a Miele washing machine (the drum went got written off so have lg now) was an older model than this one with the chrome doors. I absolutely love the dryer it’s so cheap to run even compared to a B-rated energy standard condenser/vented dryer it’s half the price of them again A-energy, A is the best energy/wash/spin/dry ratings in Europe. It’s funny how you call them “compact” yours are near enough exactly the same just you all seem to use those pedals stool’s to make them higher up it’s a good idea actually but most of us don’t have utility rooms/laundry rooms lol. My dryer is in the cupboard in the hallway it’s quite big in there could fit a washing machine too but that’s in the kitchen under the worktop next to the dishwasher. But I much prefer the ventless dryers now I got used to them heat pump has only been around a few years and only becoming more well known the last 2/3 years or so. Only 2 , 3 people I know have a heat pump tumble dryer it’s mostly electric condenser tumble dryers and few vented like my sister hates condenser and would hate heat pump even more lol as it takes longer so got her a cheep vented dryer again and sold the Bosch condenser dryer. She said she will never go back to it and she’s found it annoying emptying the water and cleaning the heat exchanger plus filter she found it to much hassle suppose I am used to it now had one for years… Heat pump is brilliant definitely more expensive than a standard electric dryer but for how much less in electricity it uses I was happy to get it. If you want to save money on electricity and you do a lot of washing and drying then this is for you!! Electricity has gone so expensive here in the uk nearly £5.00 a day sometimes a fiver a day for electricity is EXPENSIVE!
Rough calculation of the energy difference between the air exhausted during one cycle of drying and the make up air would be about 5.5 MJ. For simplicity's sake, I put the desired indoor temp at 70 and the outdoor temp at 100. You could cool that air down with a well maintained heatpump for as little as 0.4 kwh. If you instead had to heat the make up air from 10 degrees to 70 you'd have to spend double that in the best case scenario and up to 8 times as much if you had electric baseboard heating or similar. Of course, what I find to be the better argument is comfort. Not having hot or cold air infiltrating my living space just because I want to do the laundry is worth a lot more than just the cost of electricity.
Congratulations to your Miele washer and tumbler, good choice. But your time check for the washer shows us that you actually did not understand how it really works. When you select a programme the display just shows some sort of heuristic time it "usually" takes to proceed. The actual time needed to process your pieces of cloth in the drum can be determined while the selected programme is in execution, because the calculation needs input from electronic sensors. To take just the weight of your clothes in the drum does not suffice. The same applies to the tumbler. My 15 years old Siemens (electrical heated) kept its promises as far as the time it displayed, but the results depended largely on the weather conditions. My new Miele heat pump dryer does often display weird times needed but the results are always nearly the same, no matter how humid or dry the weather actually is. For me this is more important than to get wet clothes passed back by the dryer just because time is over. My Miele washer is specified with 9 kg dry cloth in maximum in the drum. But many programmes commonly in use decrease this limit painfully. E.g. it has got a steam option for easy care clothing with a recommendation of just 2 kg in maximum!
Would have preferred actual realtime power consumption measurements. Electric dryers are one of the largest electrical loads, so if you can cut down on that, it makes life easier for solar/battery inverters.
I have the LG full size all in one. You put your clothes in dirty they come out clean and dry. We kept our old dryer in case we wanted to do laundry faster. A single load will take 3-6 hours because the drying takes twice as long as our standard electric dryer. The biggest mistake that can cause a problem is putting in to much laundry. If the clothes can't move around while driving it will dry for 10 hours and still not be dry.
we have an LG full-size all in one. it will change the way you do laundry! load it up, go to bed and get up to dry clothes. we have never had an issue with damp clothes or stuff not drying except our king comforter needs to be turned and another dry cycle ran, we had to that with our last conventional unit.
ill add that instead of emptying the lint thing every dry cycle there is a screen filter that I empty every Sunday, you have to drain about a cup of water, unscrew the filter then empty it. takes about 2 minutes tops.
Matt, love your videos! As an architectural draftsman, I love to watch to get tips on construction techniques, etc. We just bought a new dryer back in October and, like the old one, it's vented. Do you know if it is safe to wrap the dryer vent pipe in Rockwool? it's not old hose, it's the flexible pipe. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
I feel like we might be close to having a single (slightly larger) machine that does the full wash and dry, a ventless design certainly makes it more possible... that’s what I want. My main concern with heat pumps is longevity, if any sort of refrigerant leak develops it’s likely to be an expensive and probably quite difficult repair - and will probably require an HVAC tech, not a typical appliance service tech to patch up the leak and refill the refrigerant... I know they CAN last a long time without leaking but any system can develop a leak, no matter how well designed.
Honestly, Matt loses me when he calls that palace he built for himself "modest" and then seconds later points out the thousand square feet of his kitchen and sitting area. He's got a toilet in that house worth more than most of the cars that are being driven by people who live in actual "modest" houses.
I love the technology, however it needs to be super sized for the US (these little European sized dryers may drive some crazy). Also I don't think it's fair to say they're 4.6x more efficient given the load size. Both kWh ratings are probably based on a number of times/week run, but since this one is so much smaller (1/2 size?) it's likely to be about more 2.3x more efficient (still impressive) since you'd probably have to do 2x the number of loads to get the same number of clothes dried. I'd love to see this tech become more accepted in the US. The real question is are the wives (if that's who does the laundry in your house) going to accept the small size load until then?
We have a Whirlpool heat pump dryer. I don't think they make them anymore, but its full size (can easily do a king size comforter) and works wonderfully. Matt hit the nail on the head with his comments about make up air, comfort, and energy efficiency of not exhausting the conditioned air in the house. I'd never go back to a vented dryer.
Good review. My how times have changed. It brought back memories of my mother being very excited to get a wringer washer for the 1st time. We were a family of 11 kids, and there were never more than 7 kids in the house at any given time. It was a huge technical leap from the bathtub to the wringer washer.
I would think since it isn't venting to the outside, it would pump humidity into your house? It would be desirable in the winter but undesirable in the summer.
Another consideration when it comes to sucking air out of your house - it can also increase radon levels. And treating lung cancer is pretty expensive too!
Ventless is great if you like running the dryer for 2+ hours to get your clothes *kinda* dry. KWh be damned, ain't got time for that. Also they make the space SUPER HUMID, which frankly is more of an envelope concern than a 4" hole for a vent. DIsclaimer; I own multiple properties with all kinds of washers/dryers. The ventless setup is by far the one I regret. My decade old LG stack units dry a full load in 35 minutes.
Google has data for some basic math. Cubic feet * degree delta *.133 equals BTUs of energy for that air. So 9000*50*.133 is about 60k BUTs. So that's a 5 ton unit running for an hour to account for the exhausted air. Call it 50 cents per load in just air exchange loss. That wouldn't account for heat gain if you cool but would offset some btus if you're heating
I looked into these years ago when we last replaced our laundry appliances. As you noted, the capacity it too small. Until these can wash and dry a king sized comforter, they're doa in the U.S. On a separate note, it would be interesting to see these without a built-in heat pump and instead a heat exchanger with either hydronic or DX line connections. It's essentially doing what a mini-split does and maybe this would also improve the capacity.
American living in Europe for over a decade. We've had one of these heat pump-based tumblers for the past seven years. Were I to go back to the States, I'd get one of these in a heartbeat. Absolutely zero sense to keep burning natural gas in the home and venting out conditioned outside.
ok the question was the cost to heat/ cool the replacement air, without showing all the math and assuming a delta of 30 and a efficient heat pump system seer 20 your looking at 2 to 3 dollars a load with a standard drier.
@@michaelhill6451 The moist air is drawn through a cold evaporator, which condenses the moisture, which is then sent to a drain or tank. The now-dryer air is then drawn through the condenser, which reheats it prior to re-entering the drum. I believe some heat pump dryers have a water tank that needs to be emptied regularly, and some can be plumbed to a drain.
Some people do exhaust traditional dryers into the room, which is nuts.
@@pkeeneyActually they all have both nowadays. They come with a simple water drawer that fits one use (if drying towels), or two uses if drying some other wash loads. But if you dont want to empty this drawer each time you can detach the small hose, and directly attach it to a sink or other method of direct water outlet.
The only disadvantage of modern inverter-evaporator heat pump dryer is the time it takes to do the job. Which is usally about 3 hours, while the older dryers were MUCH faster. (But keep in mind that the the inverter ones use much less energy in 3 hours, than the older ones did in just half an hour!)
Ah, and i forget: you can actually dry anything in these heat-pump dryers, even clothes that actually say: no tumbledrying, no dryer on their label, because they only get up to about 40degree Celsius, and not as hot as the older ones.
@@paperburn Depending on your electricity cost/provider and type of dryer , you are looking at about 20 to 60c a load IF you can get a cheap/variable tariff, and like yeah maybe 1-2 dollars otherwise. Cheaper than a RESISTIVE dryer, but a gas dryer will be a similar price to a heat pump dryer on a cheap/variable electric tariff and way cheaper than one on a standard tarrif, at around 30-50c a load for a gas dryer.
However, a heat pump dryer will also serve as some heating in winter as it doesnt have to vent, and what you are really paying for is basically zero chance of fire.
If you have the know how, its also way more possible to run a heat pump dryer of local battery/generation from EITHER home renewables like solar panels or a generator in an emergency.
The middle option is to buy a big powerful moveable dehumidifier-can dry laundry bone dry in 4 hours or so just from being near a drying rack, works as a regular dehumidifier too, more expensive to run than a heat pump dryer due to not tumbling the clothes or confining them in a small space, but WAY WAY WAY cheaper to buy. You can get a 5-room-house rated dehumidifier for
All valid points.@@sc149
I'm 27 and do landscaping for a living. I really appreciate you sharing what's going on with your skin. Its a good reminder on why not to skip out on the sunscreen. I know some of the guys regularly forget or don't use any at all.
I'm going to educate my crew better on this. Thank you Matt!
You may want to check out the impact of high Omega 6 (seed oils) and their highly oxidative state which continues after consumption and is incorporated into your cellular walls. Elimination of excess seed oils will eliminate need for sun screen and may decrease income potential for dermatologists.
@@maxaroney Eating a healthy diet is no substitute for proper sun protection. A healthy diet is good for overall health but will not prevent UV damage to your skin.
The LG Ventless Washtower is stellar and has massive capacity. We just got a set and did a full king comforter with no problem.
Would you mind sharing the model # ? I’d love to check it out!
I see lg only has one model available now and it is 24” compact size.
@@charliexu1099 They have a combo unit with a 7.2 cubic foot ventless dryer. Model number WKHC202HBA.
@@Fredjikrang Ultra Large Capacity 4.5 cu. ft. Washer and 7.2 cu. ft. Dryer Single Unit Wash Tower™ $3,099 (1/10/2023)
@@Fredjikrang awesome. Thanks for sharing !
other benefit to the dryer, it runs on 110. you can literally drop it anywhere, plug it in, and good to go.
Regarding size, you can absolutely put more in there than what you ran on the video. I came from a 5.5cube Samsung set, and other than large comforters, there is actually little difference in the load sizes. you can basically fill the washer drum up to full.
It actually runs loads through faster than the old samsung set did. And the smaller size / stacked allowed us to put in upstairs vs main floor. huge benefit.
I sure love you, Matt. Glad your face situation isn't too serious and you caught it early. Thank you for all you do to teach your brothers and sisters about good building practices. You're the man!
I have been using a full size Whirlpool heat pump dryer for years. It's huge. I can fit a king size comforter in it. Those ones you have are tiny. You can get bigger if you want.
Matt thanks for telling people about skin care in your younger years. I am 76 and have had 4 procedures to remove skin cancer. Two times from my left ear, one time from my nose and one on my left neck. In my job I did a lot of driving.
Everyone 50+ on BOTH sides of my family has either died from skin cancer, or had skin cancer removed at least once. When they were young proper care wasn't really known, but it's so easy to take care of yourself now. So many people don't bother though. There really needs to be better public education about it.
A word of caution for anyone purchasing a heat pump dryer. *DO NOT* use dryer sheets. The film that comes off those is so fine it will clog and eventually ruin the lint trap and plinth filter. Additionally, if you use fabric softener you will need to clean the entire interior of the dryer weekly. The softener coats the internal components and will cause the dryer to not be able to read the dryness of the clothing.
Neither fabric softener or dryer sheets are a necessary additive, and if you must, miele’s dryer have scents that infuse into your clothing.
I hope you get well soon Matt!
Matt, great video.. Here's a rough calculation for you on the cost of reheating cold air in winter or cooling hot air in summer, in case of a standard vented dryer. Heating Main Assumptions: (1) You have no EnergyRecovery System (2) Your COP for heating is 1 (if use heat pump, this could be 2-4), (3) Indoor/Outdoor Temp difference is 40degF, (4) typical air density .075 lbm/ft^3, typical cp-air 0.24 Btu/lbm-F. (6) 9000ft^3/load and 365 loads/year. (7) little difference in heat added to interior space with vented or unvented. Heating Caculations: Q = mass*cp*deltaT, where m = density*Volume*365 = 246,375lbm ; Q = 246,375 * 0.24 * 40 * kwH / 3413 Btu = 693 kWhr ; Cost = $0.114 * 693 = $79. As you can see with the standard vented units, you spend about as much money restoring the household air as you do running the unit. Aside, I'm trying to transition from Aerospace/Mechanical/System Engineer to an MEP Engineer but I can't get an interview without direct experience.. if anyone knows anyone in North Jersey looking for an MEP engineer, please send them my way!
Thanks for running the numbers, saved me from doing it myself. At the approximate $140 dollars per year savings in this scenario, I think the cost premium break even point compared to a standard gas/electric dryer is likely close to the expected life, so in the end, no savings.
what's the cost premium break even point you're comparing to, and how is there no savings? not sure if I'm misreading Larry's comment...
@@D2O2 The fed is currently offering a 30% tax credit for buying one and is supposed to start offering rebates around mid 2023. I forget the exact amount but I think it was up to $750 in rebates plus the 30% credit which should almost pay for one.
Some parts of the country do not have electricity as low as $0.114/kWhr, plus possible peak demand rates... $0.20-$0.55+/kWhr depending on time of day usage. One could be looking at $160-380/yr for HVAC usage plus the initial standard electric dryer usage increase of $95-260/yr. The point is, your mileage may vary. For certain parts of the country, if a mid-priced washer/dryer set is $1500-2000, the ROI could be 4-6 years at the low end.
Energy aside, I still would not get on board until there's a unit from a reliable brand that can handle bulky items. (If such a brand still exists? Sorry, that's a whole other discussion)
@@jeffreysmith4586 The Government should get out of the rebate business. Let the free market decide.
Just ordered a 7.0 cubic LG heat pump dryer today, on sale for 1299.00 on LG website. Also noticed Home Depot and Lowe’s had them also. Ben’s appliance just did a review and tear down, one of the best on the market!
In my area (coastal California), we often put dryers in unconditioned space. I still like the lower energy usage and you explanation of how they work is the first that's made sense to me. Thank you!
We had a smaller apt sized condensing unit and it was great mostly. Too small to do bedding (that sucked) but what I did love is that it spun both ways. So wind you clothes up in a ball, then reverse and unwind. That was my most favorite part. The biggest negative is that in a small space it injected to much humidity. So no power laundry days where you kick out a bunch. And on hot summer days...will they just got hotter. Would have been inclined to turn it on before work, but I don't like leaving appliances on when away and then there was work from home...
Worked a lot of outdoor construction and now doing Photo Dynamic Therapy to take care of the AK. 👍
Early ventless units (pre-HP) actually vented into your living space, causing heat, moisture, and lint buildup. It's great to see they've finally gotten past that. I notice some of the units can run on 120V, a real plus for apartment dwellers, especially the ventless washer/drier combo unit. Electric use is partially keyed to drum size. 130 kWh for those around 4 cuft, but double that for the larger drums, which can hold double the clothes. (Heat pumps are that much more efficient than heating coils.) The cheapest large drum, external vent, coil heated dryers are rated around 690 kWh. My friend "solved" the air loss by having a fairly tight door on his laundry closet. A intake vent is opened when doing laundry so he'd lose about 30 cubic feet of conditioned air, partially recovered because his exhaust vent was surrounded by an intake pipe connected to that vent.
Most do not appreciate the costs to use appliances and how the appliances affect our indoor environment. I hate that by design appliances like the refrigerator, dishwasher, and oven dump their heat into the kitchen without an option to reject that heat outside. The kitchen and bath vents are other points of gross inefficiency. Whole-house heat recovery and ventilation is a good start but there needs to be more integration of appliances.
Heat pumps are the future, if they make a large enough dryer when mine crap out I would love one.
Have you looked into the new GE profile two in one washer dryer. It is fairly new and offers the benefit of being ventless as well as not needing to transfer laundry from washer to dryer. And it is 4.8 cubic feet which addresses your size concern. Runs on a 110v circuit (no need for a 220v plug), has GE microban for mold free (plus the dryer function evaporates the water so less moisture for mold formation) and has the GE auto soap dispenser system. Right now on sale at Costco for about 2k.
Very interesting video. Great public service announcement about skin cancer. Glad you caught it and wishing you great health in the future.
One thing you should add to your cost calculation is total cost of doing several small loads to cost if fewer larger loads. It may be that the MEILE is not actually as cheep to run as you suggest.
I've had one now for 3 years and love it for all the reasons you enumerated and with the caveat that being single living alone size is actually perfect but for a family it might be a little tight. My only negative is the dryer is a little loud with the heat pump hum/buzz.
Anyone who’s had these Miele heat pump dryers is aware they absolutely take longer to dry clothing, bedding, towels, etc than a vented dryer. In large part because they operate at much lower temperatures which is MUCH gentler on the garments. I would also say we are able to wash a Cal King size wool quilt, as long as it’s only item in load.
The TwinDos is great, we have it in our BigSky home. Our primary residence is in Boulder which predates that system. We had their standard condensing ventless dryer in Boulder but after experiencing how much better the heat pump dryer is I gave the condensing unit to my daughter for her home and bought a heat pump to replace it.
We’ve never had a single service call on our Miele laundry units. I like the size but we’re empty nesters and thus 1/3 the occupant size of you…though 2 dogs and 2 cats keep things interesting 🤣.
Good advice on the sunscreen, happy recovery.
Thanks for the PSA on skin cancer issue. I recognized those red blotches right away as I've gone through that ordeal 2 or 3 times. That stuff will make you miserable for weeks but it's pretty effective and much better than excisions and stitches. Don't miss those dermo appointments - they can save your life.
What's the treatment called? I'm going to ask my Dermatologist about it ...unfortunately, they seem more interested in selling cosmetic procedures than problem-focused treatment
I've experienced actinic keratitis on my ears and scalp a couple of times now. The medical treatment offered has been cryotherapy (liquid nitrogen poured on your skin - not fun) but I've had equally good results from a comfrey salve. Takes a bit longer and can be messy, but no pain or redness
@@NightSky777 I went through this last year and it was an overwhelmingly miserable experience. Matt's treatment/reaction looks "typical". My entire face and ears reacted to the treatment (which is actually a good thing), but it's painful. Fluorouracil is the treatment cream I was prescribed. I would recommend doing smaller areas over a longer period of time to prevent potentially being overwhelmed if all skin reacts. Again, don't forget your ears - we often forget to protect our ears.
@@NightSky777 Efudex is the drug name. It ain't fun. Matt R seems to be having a fairly mild reaction but others can suffer greatly the whole time.
@@infiniteyep5224 Thank you! Greatly appreciated! I knew 2 Army Colonels who had that done. Right, wasn't pretty, but their skin was great afterwards. ...I even asked my Dermatologist about it for me, but she just shrugged it off. I'm going to press her again about it.
wishing your skin well brother matt
I’m here in MN, and I just want to mention, 10 degrees isn’t cold.
But this is exactly why I want to replace mine with a heat pump dryer. I hate paying to heat air and send it out of my house.
Just having a duct here in Ottawa can cool down our laundry room quite a bit during winter. We hand as much as possible but still use the dryer for towels, sheets and my workshirts.
Hahahaha great content overall, but certainly gave a thumbs up for the AK PSA at the end! I wish every content creator had such fact-based health tidbits in their content, peppered in like mid roll ads but for the public good.
Capacity is a big issue for me. It needs to be able to fit a king-size winter comforter.
Interesting video. For a long time I have been wondering why builders and appliance manufacturers have not done anything to prevent dryers from blowing such huge amounts of conditioned air outside.
You didn't mention the extreme itch AK brings to the table! Ex farmer and a road warrior who developed it just before I turned 45. Brutal experience and now know that long sleeve shirts, hats and sunscreen help keep you safe. Waking up in the morning having scratched yourself bloody in the night is not fun. Might get some weird looks on the golf course, but beats the alternative. Be well and stay safe.
For those who missed the end of the video, this commenter's "AK" is referring to "actinic keratosis", not "Alaska". 😀
Yes, since this is pretty serious, I hope Matt will go back to the doctor when he shaves that beard, so he can get the rest of his face checked out. Skin cancer is nothing to mess around with. I knew a builder who was doing his own roofing in July in the South. I couldn't believe he would do that himself because he had red-blonde hair. At least he wore one of those wide brimmed hats with a neck shield down the back.
@@Crusader1815 I think Matt's wife is a doctor.
I stopped the video when you said (13:50) “I am teaching my kids to do their own laundry.” My jaw nearly dropped. Best idea I have ever heard. The ventless dryer? Totally makes sense to me.
Ducted dryers and the aluminum vent hose issue can be solved with some work, and once it is, youre done. Im not dissing these, and would be useful in a ton of places say for a new build, a reno, or places like condos. The MagVent MV-180 Magnetic Dryer Vent Coupling is a great way to get your dryer back as far as possible, and unhook for cleaning because its magnets. Been using one for 4 years now, and its a great solution. As for the explanation of dryer vented air and the air coming from somewhere outside, Ive been running a ducted dryer in houses for decades now in Canada, and we have been fine. -40 it wont matter, unless you have 10% humdity, you are going to get some frost in the corners of your windows. Its science, cold air and glass. And I dont know about you, with a family, its not very often that doors to the outside are shut for hours and hours in a row. Theres no perfection when it comes to things like that.
True. During a blizzard all of the north facing windows in my house had condensation on the glass and the dryer wasn’t even on. The wind cools the glass much faster.
Matt, love everything about what you do and appreciate your time and efforts. Hats off and two thumbs up. But man, if I can be honest, it is way way past time to change/ update the build show intro music.
I live in a desert where the humidity is almost always pretty low. I have a regular electric clothes dryer in my garage and it vents into the garage, not outside. The 3/4 cup of water that it pulls out of the wet clothes barely raises the moisture level of the air in the garage.
I wouldn't do that in the humid Southeast, but it works fine here.
Would love to talk about your coffee set up! Linea Mini and a technoform!
Thanks for the insights! Long time user of an speedqueen industrial gas dryer (household of 4 with pets) and having moved with these units 2x under 5 years was not an easy task considering the vent system. After 3 years working abroad and moving back we’ve just bought a ventless dryer from LG and I was fearful whether it would be safe to put these units at a separate storage cage in the roofed open area of the apartment complex were moving into because of the heat. I think with your review I’ll be considering putting our units in our bathroom, since its quite big.
We had a Whirlpool hybrid heat pump ventless drier that we used for 3-4 years. There were several issues that caused us to quit using it.
My wife did not like how long it could take to dry loads sometimes without using the heating elements along with the heat pump component. Dry warm days caused faster drying times compared to cooler humid days which is a function of the dew point.
The big problem was the ventless part. The dryer worked well ventless to begin with. As the filters aged the filtration became less and less effective which allowed lint to get into the main body of the machine. Lint would start to effect the drying times as the coils would become plugged, just like your refrigerator coils can become plugged, causing the heat pump to work harder for less results. It got to the point that I had to almost completely disassemble the dryer to get access to the heat exchanger coils to clean them. Not everyone can do that, every time you take it apart the seals get damaged so that the internals accumulate more lint faster inside. It was a good idea until it wasn't.
I understand Matt's desire to keep the warm or cool air in his house, the ventless dryer comes with its own cost in maintenance and running cost which may or may not offset the additional heating and cooling costs by venting some of that air outside and pulling air from the outside to replace the air that was vented.
Our heat pump dryer is in storage now, I am thinking about seeing if I can convert it into a heater for the shop. Vented gas dryers still rule here.
It’s easier on the clothes too and keeps towels fluffy since other dryers have a tendency to fry them
Whirlpool has a 7.4 Cu. Ft. Ventless dryer with a 5 cu. Ft. Washer that is now on my wish list!
I wish driers, refrigerators, and ovens had a summer/winter setting. In the winter, I want the excess heat vented into my house. In the summer I want it vented out. (And in summer a drier could have an external intake too.)
My dad tried venting the dryer inside in the trailer we were living in... which resulting in mold on the walls, since all moisture the dryer blows out is obviously going to condense on all the outside walls. I agree that a dryer should have both an input and and output hose, just like some wood stoves and portable air conditioners do.
@@elhoward7440
Yes, proper engineering is key.
Don’t vent your bathroom fan directly into the attic either.
@@shawnbrennan7526agree 100% especially with the bath fan
Live in the UK and we have a similar setup. Full load we have mid size 8kg /10lb washing machine and dryer. You can get bigger but we don't need to. 8kg dryer is around 500 gbp so 650 to 700 usd. We set our one to cupboard dry and it takes about 1 and a half hours washing machine 56 min.
Would not go back to the old school clothes come out great. We heat our house 6 months of the year so we would have had to heat the outside air from an aver of 7 degrees to 19
So you mentioned in text that these seems to be well built while talking about the price of these units, just FYI Miele is a premium brand, probably the most premium, I haven't heard of anyone having machines from that lasting less than 19 years and usually closer to 30 (the machine that "died" at 19 years was a dishwasher and it worked fine mechanically still, the wheel that adjusted the programs and all got worn out) so expect a long life time on those.
The more mid range brands like Bosch usually have a better cost to performance ratio, and of course. always research extensively before buying anything from Samsung and LG.
If anyone else clicked on this video, b/c they were curious about these dryers,
AND THEN SAW THAT HE LOOKED LIKE HE GOT IN A FIGHT WITH A 2x4 & lost...
He talks about that @16:20
That aside, interesting video.
Yeah 😬
I have a large whirlpool ventless dryer and it works very well. It does heat my laundry room up but uses way less power.
I wonder if you combined a ventless dryer with a heat pump hot water tank in the same room if they would cancel each other out. 🤔
@@brettseefeldt6131, if you ran the heat pump dryer every day, maybe. I have a heat pump water heater as well but not in that room.
Worried about resource efficiency but has every light in sight on, even where he's not filming.
Will be replacing current washer dryer. Will definitely use ventless. Thanks for the info.
Make sure it’s a heat pump dryer!! There are also ventless that don’t use heat pumps, and they suck.
Also Matt, in the winter time all that energy used by the dryer will assist with the heating load. A vented dryer dumps all that heat outside plus having to replace that air with incoming cold air. So a double win.
12:05 but its also an option to install laundry services in non conditioned space. the issue of replacement air is solved.
first to watch matt do laundry
I bought a ventless LG washer/dryer back in 2008. It was JUNK! It blew all the water that it removed from the wet laundry out onto the floor below in the form of hot steam. It took me 6 months to get Home Depot to accept my return. They claimed it was a special order and non-returnable. But I bought it off the floor…
Anyway, I had to remove this washer/dryer before it caused any water damage on my newly installed wood flooring. I had to put a towel on the floor in front of the machine to catch the dripping water. This towel needed constant replacement, as it got soaked a couple times for each load.
The laundry never fully dried, and it was, in fact, hot when I removed it. I called a factory authorized repairman out to work on it, and he was puzzled too! LG and Home Depot tried to claim that the machine worked as designed and was not defective (they were VERY reluctant to allow my return).
Final analysis: DO NOT BUY A VENTLESS DRYER! The water that is in your wet laundry has to go SOMEWHERE! Without a vent, it goes into your laundry room as steam, and condenses out of the air 😊as water on the floor! This causes slip hazards, and can be very dangerous! This is the voice of experience! Don’t make the same mistake I did.
I didn't know these existed! Having these would make my 800sq.ft. house much more comfortable.
Pro tip: use dryer balls. I have a Samsung set. I love them
In my experience if you have one you need a dedicated thermostat for that location since you aren't rejecting all that heat outside.
So where does the moisture go? Into the house? If so, how does that effect humidity levels in the house and potential mold issues?
This also brings to mind bathroom fans and ventilation hoods. Will those depressurize the house as well? If those types of ventilation are not in a house then the air quality suffers, correct? What is the right balance of energy efficiency and quality of air in the house?
Awesome content! I was just debating putting these in my next unit and the info that you produce is so amazing, thank you!!
Remember that heat pump appliances have refrigeration systems which require more frequent and more expensive maintenance than conventional gas or resistance heated electric dryers.
Are there tests proving that these filters really trap all the lint and other particulates from the clothes? Did you notice any changes in your HVAC filters after you installed this dryer?
Thanks for the tip on skin protection.
Beautiful La Marzocco Linea Mini and Mazzer Mini A!
Getting a good model from one of the repute brands like Miele is a great choice. The fact these are becoming more widely available in the US is great. Prices should come down, and if on the off chance it does need service, you can actually find someone to service it. The tech is also advancing fairly quickly, better efficiency or drying, ect...
So several points I've found with our "American" brand HP dryer. I think it's a hybrid and has a resistance coil to get them warmer.
- it does make the laundry room warmer. Big plus for northeast.
- The extra steps for lint traps/cleaning is a non issue for all users after the first week.
- the extra cost was an easy sell to my wife especially without having to deal with an ugly vent pipe.
- play with the settings, it can make those still wet complaints go away.
- we're only two adults and a baby, so our use is low, but I think it will keep up for 4 or 5 adults
- we've had few problems with a king size comforter, though occasionally will add another fifteen minutes for wet pockets
- if you're doing any energy retrofitting or care of building envelope piercing, give them a shot
The issue with heat pump dryers is that most of them are specified to work at their rated effeciencies and dry times at 19degc ( 66 F ) ambient room temperature, which is fine if you live in a warm climate. They will , of course work, down to about 10C ( 50 F ) , but the COP goes down massively from about 3 times to about 1.5 or less.
The heat pump dryer tax credit from inflation raising act will drive manufacturing. The washing machine soap sheets are amazing.
If you're in Minnesota and you're pulling in 10F air from outside then none of it is causing ice or condensation on the windows. It's below freezing; the air will have no moisture in it.
It seems that the ideal dryer would be a hybrid of vent and ventless tech!
I also don't want to load my washer while kneeling on the floor!
Good info. For those that have cold winters, venting into the house( filtered of course) with a conventional dryer can be good as the heat stays in the house as well as the moisture. Not for the summer obviously.
Thanks for the skin advice. B safe. Love your channel.
I have seen products sold to make doing this easy, but I wouldn’t want to introduce additional moisture, personally I’d like to see the dryer vent go through a heat exchange so that the heat can be recovered into the house sans moisture, we don’t want more condensation on windows and moldy corners.
I live in Florida and I keep my washer and dryer in the garage, so the ACH is not on my list of concerns for a dryer.
At one time I had considered buying an all-in-one set it and forget it type washer dryer combo machine for the convenience
I live in Ireland, but have a similar Miele set. I use the drawer and drain it into my toilet cistern just to reduce my water usage. Not a huge difference but I have a toilet just off my utility room so it's easy.
Even though he puts powder into the detergent dispenser, don't do it without checking whether the machine can handle powder in there. Some dispensers will clog and possibly be damaged.
Miele machines (like all European washers) are designed to handle powder detergent.
My biggest issue with the auto dose system is my extreme preference for commercial detergents, both in the dishwasher and laundry. But I do love Miele's appliances, have been dealing with their vacuum cleaners for years!
You can apparently override the twindose system if you want by going into the service menu. You then just use whatever detergents you choose by using the drawer like any other front loader.
If you're poor and it's in the winter you could hang some clotheslines in your basement and set up a Craigslist dehumidifier. And the waste heat would "chimney effect" up into the rest of your house.
Wow! Your coffee gear though!!! Tell us a little more about them.
Great video. Never thought about these before. I regards to the comparison to electric dryers, we also didn't take into account that a normal electric dryer can accomodate a much larger load each time so more clothes are dried with the higher amount of energy.
Each has pros and cons. I personally prefer the vented dryers but if I was moving the laundry room to an area that couldn’t vent outside well I’d consider a ventless dryer.
That was taken in account. The energy consumption estimates are for yearly use by an average family. So, same volume of clothes regardless of how many loads are needed.
Clothes lines are the best option. Inside for winter humidification. Outside for summer freshness and UV treatment.
1/4 cost run but gotta run it 4 times more because of the small loads is it really anymore energy efficient?
Yes, because when measuring the efficiency they calculate it based on the amount of clothes washed and dried.
Hi Matt, I have the same dryer. Fantastic machine. It gets really hot during the drying cycle though. It’s noticeable in the room. I’m redoing my AC and I’m wondering if you had your mechanical engineer account for the dryer to calculate the load of that laundry room. I’m sure it’s not insignificant. I’m in climate zone 2A so mostly cooling. Thanks!
😭 I'm so happy finally a video I can understand as a normie! 🤣🤣 I'm not a contractor barely a DIYer 🥲
If there were larger versions I’d be interested.
Thanks for posting with your red face. It’s good to spread awareness about this health stuff. I would have been too self conscious to do it myself. The whole time I was watching this video I was wondering if you got in a fight with a raccoon or something ;)
Dude, the Linea Mini in your kitchen! You have a serious espresso setup. I had no idea!
It’s been a 10+ year dream to own one. I bought it for my 50th birthday!
I didn't consider the air replacement con from vented dryers. Cheers!
I have Miele eco comfort heat pump tumble dryer and used to have a Miele washing machine (the drum went got written off so have lg now) was an older model than this one with the chrome doors.
I absolutely love the dryer it’s so cheap to run even compared to a B-rated energy standard condenser/vented dryer it’s half the price of them again A-energy, A is the best energy/wash/spin/dry ratings in Europe. It’s funny how you call them “compact” yours are near enough exactly the same just you all seem to use those pedals stool’s to make them higher up it’s a good idea actually but most of us don’t have utility rooms/laundry rooms lol. My dryer is in the cupboard in the hallway it’s quite big in there could fit a washing machine too but that’s in the kitchen under the worktop next to the dishwasher. But I much prefer the ventless dryers now I got used to them heat pump has only been around a few years and only becoming more well known the last 2/3 years or so. Only 2 , 3 people I know have a heat pump tumble dryer it’s mostly electric condenser tumble dryers and few vented like my sister hates condenser and would hate heat pump even more lol as it takes longer so got her a cheep vented dryer again and sold the Bosch condenser dryer. She said she will never go back to it and she’s found it annoying emptying the water and cleaning the heat exchanger plus filter she found it to much hassle suppose I am used to it now had one for years…
Heat pump is brilliant definitely more expensive than a standard electric dryer but for how much less in electricity it uses I was happy to get it. If you want to save money on electricity and you do a lot of washing and drying then this is for you!! Electricity has gone so expensive here in the uk nearly £5.00 a day sometimes a fiver a day for electricity is EXPENSIVE!
Rough calculation of the energy difference between the air exhausted during one cycle of drying and the make up air would be about 5.5 MJ. For simplicity's sake, I put the desired indoor temp at 70 and the outdoor temp at 100. You could cool that air down with a well maintained heatpump for as little as 0.4 kwh. If you instead had to heat the make up air from 10 degrees to 70 you'd have to spend double that in the best case scenario and up to 8 times as much if you had electric baseboard heating or similar.
Of course, what I find to be the better argument is comfort. Not having hot or cold air infiltrating my living space just because I want to do the laundry is worth a lot more than just the cost of electricity.
Congratulations to your Miele washer and tumbler, good choice. But your time check for the washer shows us that you actually did not understand how it really works. When you select a programme the display just shows some sort of heuristic time it "usually" takes to proceed. The actual time needed to process your pieces of cloth in the drum can be determined while the selected programme is in execution, because the calculation needs input from electronic sensors. To take just the weight of your clothes in the drum does not suffice.
The same applies to the tumbler. My 15 years old Siemens (electrical heated) kept its promises as far as the time it displayed, but the results depended largely on the weather conditions. My new Miele heat pump dryer does often display weird times needed but the results are always nearly the same, no matter how humid or dry the weather actually is. For me this is more important than to get wet clothes passed back by the dryer just because time is over.
My Miele washer is specified with 9 kg dry cloth in maximum in the drum. But many programmes commonly in use decrease this limit painfully. E.g. it has got a steam option for easy care clothing with a recommendation of just 2 kg in maximum!
Would have preferred actual realtime power consumption measurements. Electric dryers are one of the largest electrical loads, so if you can cut down on that, it makes life easier for solar/battery inverters.
I have the LG full size all in one. You put your clothes in dirty they come out clean and dry. We kept our old dryer in case we wanted to do laundry faster. A single load will take 3-6 hours because the drying takes twice as long as our standard electric dryer.
The biggest mistake that can cause a problem is putting in to much laundry. If the clothes can't move around while driving it will dry for 10 hours and still not be dry.
we have an LG full-size all in one. it will change the way you do laundry! load it up, go to bed and get up to dry clothes. we have never had an issue with damp clothes or stuff not drying except our king comforter needs to be turned and another dry cycle ran, we had to that with our last conventional unit.
ill add that instead of emptying the lint thing every dry cycle there is a screen filter that I empty every Sunday, you have to drain about a cup of water, unscrew the filter then empty it. takes about 2 minutes tops.
Matt, love your videos! As an architectural draftsman, I love to watch to get tips on construction techniques, etc.
We just bought a new dryer back in October and, like the old one, it's vented. Do you know if it is safe to wrap the dryer vent pipe in Rockwool? it's not old hose, it's the flexible pipe.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
I feel like we might be close to having a single (slightly larger) machine that does the full wash and dry, a ventless design certainly makes it more possible... that’s what I want. My main concern with heat pumps is longevity, if any sort of refrigerant leak develops it’s likely to be an expensive and probably quite difficult repair - and will probably require an HVAC tech, not a typical appliance service tech to patch up the leak and refill the refrigerant... I know they CAN last a long time without leaking but any system can develop a leak, no matter how well designed.
For large families or high-volume users, a single machine is only half-capacity compared to separate wash/dry machines.
Honestly, Matt loses me when he calls that palace he built for himself "modest" and then seconds later points out the thousand square feet of his kitchen and sitting area. He's got a toilet in that house worth more than most of the cars that are being driven by people who live in actual "modest" houses.
Love the laundry show!
I love the technology, however it needs to be super sized for the US (these little European sized dryers may drive some crazy). Also I don't think it's fair to say they're 4.6x more efficient given the load size. Both kWh ratings are probably based on a number of times/week run, but since this one is so much smaller (1/2 size?) it's likely to be about more 2.3x more efficient (still impressive) since you'd probably have to do 2x the number of loads to get the same number of clothes dried.
I'd love to see this tech become more accepted in the US. The real question is are the wives (if that's who does the laundry in your house) going to accept the small size load until then?
We have a Whirlpool heat pump dryer. I don't think they make them anymore, but its full size (can easily do a king size comforter) and works wonderfully. Matt hit the nail on the head with his comments about make up air, comfort, and energy efficiency of not exhausting the conditioned air in the house. I'd never go back to a vented dryer.
Good review. My how times have changed. It brought back memories of my mother being very excited to get a wringer washer for the 1st time. We were a family of 11 kids, and there were never more than 7 kids in the house at any given time. It was a huge technical leap from the bathtub to the wringer washer.
I would think since it isn't venting to the outside, it would pump humidity into your house? It would be desirable in the winter but undesirable in the summer.
Nope. It goes down the drain as liquid water.
Another consideration when it comes to sucking air out of your house - it can also increase radon levels. And treating lung cancer is pretty expensive too!
Considering the the smaller capacity how many extra loads are required to do the same total amount of laundry
Ventless is great if you like running the dryer for 2+ hours to get your clothes *kinda* dry. KWh be damned, ain't got time for that. Also they make the space SUPER HUMID, which frankly is more of an envelope concern than a 4" hole for a vent.
DIsclaimer; I own multiple properties with all kinds of washers/dryers. The ventless setup is by far the one I regret.
My decade old LG stack units dry a full load in 35 minutes.
It is also smaller than a regualr dryer by a ton so you have to factor more useage.
Google has data for some basic math. Cubic feet * degree delta *.133 equals BTUs of energy for that air. So 9000*50*.133 is about 60k BUTs. So that's a 5 ton unit running for an hour to account for the exhausted air. Call it 50 cents per load in just air exchange loss. That wouldn't account for heat gain if you cool but would offset some btus if you're heating
I looked into these years ago when we last replaced our laundry appliances. As you noted, the capacity it too small.
Until these can wash and dry a king sized comforter, they're doa in the U.S.
On a separate note, it would be interesting to see these without a built-in heat pump and instead a heat exchanger with either hydronic or DX line connections. It's essentially doing what a mini-split does and maybe this would also improve the capacity.
Does everyone in the USA sleep in a king sized bed? Did not know that.
Just got to the end of the video, thanks for explaining about your face.
Extra time could be due to slow filling due to lower water pressure, or if the unit has to heat its own water, the heating time 🎉