hey Matt, love your channel & content, but in this case I think there are several errors in ChatGPT's math that are giving a very wrong result: 1. It doesn't actually use heating/cooling degree days in the calculation. In fact, it assumes you are cooling at a 20deg difference 365 days of the year AND you are heating at a 30deg difference for 365 days of the year, which is obviously nonsense 2. It assumes a COP for your AC of 0.9, which is ridiculously low 3. It assumes your heat source is 75% efficient as if you had an old gas furnace (that's where the 0.024 BTU/cuft/degF comes from) but and then applies another 90% efficiency factor on top of that and calculates based on electrical rates (not gas prices). So this would be like heating your home with electric resistance heat that is only 67.5% efficient. All that to say, it's cost calculations are WAY high. By my calculations: BTU/hr = cfm * 1.08 * deltaT So even if we assumed it's 95deg outside for 6 months of the year, and 40 deg outside for the other 6, it works out like this: (assuming dryer runs 1 hr/day) Total Annual Cooling = 200cfm * 1.08 * 20degF * 182.5hrs = 788,400 BTU --> 788,400/3.412/1000 = 231 KWH --> (assuming COP of 4 and $0.15 electrical rate) 231/4*0.15 = $8.66 Total Annual Heating = 200cfm * 1.08 * 30degF * 182.5hrs = 1,182,600 BTU --> 1182600/3.412/1000 = 346 KWH --> (assuming COP of 3 and $0.15 electrical rate) 346/3*0.15) = $17.33 But in fact the temperature differentials are not usually so high. By using heating/cooling degree days I get: (assuming 2800CDD & 1200 HDD) Total Annual Cooling = cfm * 1.08 * cdd * hours_per_day_dryer_use = 605,800 BTU --> 177 KWH --> $6.65 Total Annual Heating = cfm * 1.08 * hdd * hours_per_day_dryer_use = 259,200 BTU --> 75.97 KWH --> $3.80 For comparison, you could also check out this article on Green Building Advisor: www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/heat-pump-clothes-dryers and the accompanying spreadsheet (docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WgkVxct7YJUDmYs2qIM_Jhua0T6hHJp17h7tEbiP1eg/edit?gid=0#gid=0) He estimates a total savings of about 29cents per load (including the electrical savings from the efficiency of the machine itself). If running 365 times per year, that puts total savings in the range of $106 dollars (not $300-400). And he calculates the make-up air from venting to require 0.43KWH of electricity to heat/cool, which is like 6 cents per load (and that still assumes a 20degC avg temperature delta, which is too high for Austin). So the cost savings by going ventless are actually pretty low (lower than I would have guessed). Note that none of these calculations account for added latent load, though, which would give you some additional savings.
Thank you for doing the math, I was about to. at 200CFM an hour a day I was right off the bat thinking maybe $20 a year in costs. Chat GPT is indeed very wrong, this is a quite complex question to ask it and don't think we should be using it here, just doing good ol' math as per above.
These calculations are much more in line with what I was able to come up with for electricity usage after our switch a few years ago. Electricity usage is not amazing, but definitely better than the previous early 1980s dryer we'd been using. That was pretty straightforward to compare (I have one morning every week I'm consistent with several consecutive loads) looking at my electric company's daily/hourly usage charts given we received the dryer in October so we were in that transition period between AC usage and heating season. I've not found a great comparison for our heating (oil) costs, mainly because our winters have been less severe. Yes I've been pre-ordering 100 gallons less for a couple of years but I would attribute that much more to warmer winters and less from pushing air out through a duct dryer. Still, our laundry room (no thermostat) is definitely warmer in the winter than it was previously. Regardless, for me personally I've felt the change to ductless worth it.
It puts out 120 degree air (from what I found) so anytime you are cooling your house seems like an additional cost to not pump the air outside. Seems like in Louisiana (where he lives) the calculations would be far different as cooling per year is far greater than heating.
That doesn't take into account the machine costs either or the scary expensive repairs for a failure. If trends hold, these units will have a couple of repairs in their life, the cost of which will far surpass energy savings. -IF- you are concerned about saving money, buy the simplest unit you can and keep it as long as you can. Better yet, buy one used.
I bought an old speed queen washer. 30 minute cycle time on heavy duty. Great agitator action for my dirty work close and no electronics to crap out. Win for me!!
Ya Speed Queen washer for me too. That hi-speed spin cuts drying time by at least 40 percent or more. Imagin Speed Queen making one of these! Simple, minimal electronics. I have had mine for almost 20years. NO problems.
New "energy efficient" machines are a joke. They take hours to wash and due to being misers with water, they don't clean well or rinse well. I'll take an old fashioned washer anyday
We sold off an old Speed Queen set, to make room for newer technology. Within 2 years, we had to have a technician come out to fix the washer, all over a sensor that failed in the lid. With the Speed Dryer, I fixed it myself for $10 with Amazon parts. Thinking we should have kept the Speed Queens 👍
I've read those Speed Queens are the MOST reliable as well. I'm all for making something last 20 years rather than filling the dumps with 3-year-old equipment.
The story of this video is not the dryer but the willingness of a user to put their faith in a tool that will satisfy the desire to have a quick answer regardless of users’s ability to validate the answer.
Back in energy crisis days (late 1970’s) folks ran the dryer outlet into their basements. To trap the lint, they would tape panty hose over the 4” outlet. It was weird to be in the basement when the dryer came on and a pair of legs inflated and wiggled around.
Yep, I was laughing at its attempts (in the video) to calculate the KWH and Cost per year for a regular washer and dryer. It obviously didn't comprehend the formula.
First, I have followed your channel for years. Love your work. We moved into our new house during Christmas 2020. We bought a Whirlpool laundry pair. We did not have to worry about makeup air but we did have to worry about fire. There was no vent in the basement, just a filter box that basically recycled the lint into the air. The cost of running a vent was enormous as the laundry was on no outside wall. An addition poured a concrete slab where a vent would be. We started looking into the new heat pump technology. We first looked into the GE all in one like you purchased. First, they were in very short supply.. Second, we did not want to give up washing while also drying. Third, there were a lot of complaints about moist clothes coming out, That was not a deal breaker, just another annoyance. We finally settled on the LG large capacity (7,2 cu. ft.) dual inverter heat pump dryer. Again we ran into the short supply issue, but they started to appear but about 4 weeks out. The dryer is everything we wanted. Clothes come out absolutely dry. The drain system works flawlessly. The lint is gone. It takes everything the Whirlpool washer can wash. It uses 8 KWh per load, much less than the Whirlpool.
I had that same Miele system and really loved it. no venting and regular electric plug and was able to fit in a closet on the upper bedroom level win, win,win
Fast tip if you have a heat pump or a mini split, director dryer exhaust at your outdoor coil during the winter and run your heat when your dryer runs that will take that dryer heat and put it back into your house through the mini split. Or at least part of it. For free.
Switched my standard electric dryer for the LG 7.8cf heat pump dryer. Old dryer was 2019 energy star LG and pulled 6200w per the label. New dryer pulls 830w per the label. It's the bomb. And what you said about the air being sucked out. I removed the vent pipe and capped the hole. During the winter my old dryer when not in use would be 10 degrees colder than room temp due to the cold air infiltration and the laundry room stayed cold in the winter. Fixed that issue with the swap. Also notice a substantial reduction in lint in that room. The LG has a large access door on the front of the machine to clean the coil. Piece of cake. Super quiet, direct drive, DC motor with no belt. Cost $1100. Worth every penny, suspect full payback in a couple years.
As a European I really don’t understand why anyone is still using vent dryers. My mom got a condenser dryer in the 1990s. And we don’t even use our dryer often. Just in the winter for towels. Everything else we hang out except for winter where we use some room in the house. If you have controlled ventilation it will dry your laundry for free.
@@spencerhall4452 I haven't looked it up, but there's no reason an appliance designed to use 830W should need 220V. Plenty of 120V appliances in North America use more power than that: toasters, microwaves, waffle irons, space heaters, hair dryers....
GPT only factored in the sensible load. If you notice, it used 0.018 btus/cuft/deltaT, that's just the sensible difference, not enthalpy. The enthalpy difference between indoor 75deg 50%rH and outdoor 95deg 50%rH (average dew point in Austin this July was 73) would be 14.36 btu/lb or about 1.057 btus/cuft. GPT only factored 0.018x20deg = 0.36btu/cuft. Basically a third of the actual energy difference.
Keep in mind that the energy efficiency numbers on the stickers use national averages thus why Chats numbers were off a bit, since it was using location specific numbers to calculate.
@RBodge1234 They weren't off a bit, off by a factor of three. Mainly because gpt only factored the sensible btus based on the temperature difference. Didn't factor in humidity at all.
Ya these are NOT as good as it say's and they degrade pretty fast unless you take the top half off and clean the condenser every couple months. An if you don't live in the south these are a nightmare tbh. It takes 5x as long to get clothes "dry" with half a load, the only way it halfway works is if its mid summer. But even then the clothes are rather damp no matter season, the summer I can just turn it on manual for an extra hr but in the winter I had to get a REAL dryer to finish clothes off. The more its continuously used the worst the drying gets also. They need some type of Peltier plates or something to pull the humidity out better
PS. I got one bc on vacation in FL it seemed great and would work well with my solar in... Ohio... An anytime other then summer I end up using more electric on the heatpump them a coil dryer, Not including the extra power needed to heat the area it's in either...
@@dizzlethe7346 That's only the GE model. The LG and Samsung have dedicated coil cleaning cycles that spray down the condenser fins. I live in West where it's not humid but it certainly doesn't take "5x" as long to dry a load. A complete cycle might take 3 hrs if I set it to more dry in which case nothing comes out damp.
We've had the LG Wash Tower Ventless for about 2 years and it has been 100% trouble free so far! Solid performance. Have several littles in the house and we're doing laundry all the time. Big capacity, and energy efficient. Ventless all the way!
@@TheBOOKofJOSEPHno increase in humidity levels since the system is closed while it dries and the water (condensate) gets pumped out and down the drain. Noise level is about the same for me but others claim it’s quieter.
@@DeuceDeuceBravo To the LG one we have has a 2 stage lint filter. It is effective. Once a year, I vacuum out the machine and haven't found over accumulation to be an issue. The 2 biggest things that have been major improvements on the traditional Whirlpool machines that came with our house were: 1) Ability to relocate without extensive renovations to run a vent, drain, etc We had a closet that was unused that back up against a toilet. Opened up the wall, tied in drain to the bathroom piping and fixtures. Electric was a breeze too. The project would have been exponentially more expensive if we didn't have the ventless option. 2) The efficiency and energy savings is much better than what we had. The old whirlpool machines that came with the house died. They were from 2004 and a regular load of washing used 3x as much water as the LG one does. Looking at the energy stats for our machine, in 2.4 years we've done a total of 1612 wash or drying cycles. In that time, our energy consumption has been 1044.063kWh. The previous 1.2 years saw us use 1899.64kWh of electricity. If you're moving from a more modern energy start appliance the change won't be as drastic, but in our case, we couldn't be happier with the decision.
@@TheBOOKofJOSEPH We relocated washer and dryer from the garage into a renovated closet space on the back of our guest bathroom. In terms of noise, unless you are in that bathroom, we don't hear it. I just used a db meter to see if it could pick up the noise from the machine that is currently running washer and dryer simultaneously. I am in the living room about 30 ft away and separated by 1 wall. Db Meter is not picking up anything. In terms of humidity, the LG tower doesn't release humidity into the room. Ventless heat pump machines don't need to get as hot as traditional machines, and any condensation that is created get recycled from the dryer down to the washer. I wash the drain hose every 6 months or so that connects the dryer to the washer (dryer is stacked on top of washer). All that to say, because it's ventless, it doesn't release moisture into the closet. Humidity is a non-issue.
We've had the same exact GE combo unit for about 4 months. It's been great in general, but for our family there is one caveat - you can't wash and dry at the same time (obviously!!). But the *total* time for doing multiple loads back-to-back is significantly longer, which we didn't realise before making the purchase.
We have two sets of Miele washers & heat pump dryers stacked side-by-side (somewhat the same as yours, but the washers have the TwinDos system). We can fit way more than 3 or 4 towels in each one. We’ve found out that we could have gotten away with just one set, but two are really handy and gives you options. Keep in mind that these are European machines, but Europeans ALSO have large families and use these. For our dryers, the only thing we do other than cleaning the regular lint filter is clean the plinth filer about once a month. We actually bought a couple spare plinth filters so that there’s always one to “hot-swap” and keep in service while the dirty one gets washed out. We’ve had this set up for about 2 years, and the condenser coils are as clean as a whistle. If they ever need to be cleaned, Miele makes a brush attachment for their canister vacs to clean the condenser area. I can’t speak to the GE, LG, Samsung, or other manufacturers’ offerings, but we’re over the moon pleased so far with the Mieles.
@@drowe2 You missed the point. In very warm or very cold climates, it's not the cost of running the machine. It's the added cost of cooling or warming the house due to the negative pressure caused by venting the dryer to the outside. That also applies to gas dryers like yours (and mine) that are "cheap" to run.
@@drowe2 I live in Minnesota and we only run the A/C June through September. But Summer A/C wouldn't be the issue for us. Instead, it would be the negative-pressure lost heat of running the dryer in the winter. In locations with moderate climates (for example, California, Tennessee, etc.) it's not really an issue. So YMMV. If it's not an issue for you, or at least you believe it's not an issue for you, then don't worry about it.
@@drowe2 we run our A/C from March until November, and heat in the other months. In the Deep South, we don’t really have a lot of shoulder season and a huge issue with humidity.
@@drowe2 I looked it up and the combo washer/dryer he has is $2200 at Home Depot and it would be a breeze to install, at least in our house. That said, I will wait to hear out reliable they are long term. Also, having an all-in-one unit like would kill our ability to "pipeline" the washing and drying so laundry will take about twice as long.
We have the Samsung all in one ventless combo dryer and its been flawless. We use a $30 black and decker dustbuster to clean the lint filter which should cut down on the amount of lint that makes it to the condenser. Honestly everyone with a ventless combo unit like this should use a dustbuster to clean the lint tray. Also the samsung has a cleaning cycle it runs on the condenser that removes the lint build up. Very well built unit.
I recently went with the Samsung unit! I saw Ben's repair & junk appliances video teardown on these units - I really hate how the Samsung is so "appy", but one thing he pointed out - Samsung dryer actually dried the clothes in all his tests, and it has a cycle that keeps the fins clean made me go for it. Good thing hear the GE is working for Matt though. These new units rock - we start it before hitting the gym, clothes are clean and dry when we come back! You just have to adapt your schedule.
one other perk to the Samsung I've been enjoying - auto dispensing detergent from the reservoir, and this process being tied to the filter plug (so when you refill the tank, you clean the filter out first!)
I've had my Miele pair for 3 years and love them. I'm retired and down-sized, so the size is actually perfect. Because I was doing a major revamp of my space, I had to move plumbing, electrical, and terminate gas, and would have had to enter the ceiling to move the vent. Installing the ventless dryer and washer pair was less expensive on all counts. They now sit in a laundry closet with folding and hanging space just off the kitchen. My overall power bill definitely decreased, but I also switched over to smart LEDs everywhere, so it was hard to determine what contributed.
I'll bet the LED lights helped even more than the new dryer. One thing to keep in mind, just having less capacity, will usually make it more energy efficient for the dryer.
I’ve watched many videos that show that the GE, the Samsung and the LG all in ones have filters that do not trap 100% of the lint and that you often have to open up and clean off the coils to keep up your efficiency. Your average consumer has a hard enough time just keeping their lint filters clean. I do love how the fire hazard of lint build up in the exhaust hose is completely eliminated.
The Samsung actually washes the coils every load. I have had my unit since July and have not needed to clean the coils. I would hesitate to recommend Samsung because of their awful customer service, but the product has been rock-solid and extremely easy to use. The only difficult part is that there's a large two-stage lint filter that takes ever so slightly longer to clean than a standard lint filter, and they recommend rinsing it which I do not do frequently.
The Samsung has a 2 stage lint filter , and has been mentioned cleans the condensing coils each cycle, and a self clean mode you can run every 20 cycles.
I have the Miele set and thick towels like you. The Miele has a capacity of 17 Lbs. I can fit 6 bath towels, 6 hand towels and one floor mat in one load. It's okay to stuff it full as laundry compacts down when it's wet. Everything is perfectly washed and rinsed in one hour and then dried in 2 hours.
@@Shylo_420 I have to dry all the sheet pieces separately otherwise they come out in a wrinkled mess. The units vary in cost from about $1000 to $2500, depending on the features you want.
I have 2 washers and 2 dryers in my laundry room... 7 kids, 5 dogs... And we upgraded to the LG....4 of them. Best thing we EVER DID. 8K later and we are happy. Sold our Samsung units and all in around 6500.
You are why I do not buy used appliances - your household would have worn out those machines long before you sold them off even though cosmetically they would have still looked pretty good. You also remind me next new set I buy I need to look into how to install a cycle counter. Keep going Jason we need your kids to counter the demographic collapse here in the west.
I have a Bosch heat pump dryer in France after having a Samsung one in the US. The Bosch unit is vastly superior at keeping lint and debris from getting to the condenser coil. The Bosch uses a dual layer lint filter for the first stage of lint trap and then in front of the coil has a washable sponge filter about 3/4 inch thick that catches everything else. That filter takes about 3 minutes to rinse out in the sink once a month and keeps the coils completely clean. The US models need to implement a similar setup. The Samsung I had only had the two inner filters and a lot of lint made it past it and then stuck to the damp coil restricting the air flow as well as leading to odors. I've had none of those issues on my Bosch series 6 units. I spent about $600 for that dryer, vs the roughly $900 I spent on that Samsung. One thing to keep in mind for optimal efficiency those units need to be in a room that is at least somewhat conditioned space for the winter. Placing them in a garage that sits in the 40's in the winter will make the unit work much harder to dry the clothes, but since it's not sucking out conditioned air it makes more sense to have in your conditioned space. Some of the newer units in the EU have a self cleaning coil system as well, not sure how it works but they cost a bit more and surprisingly are a bit less efficient than the ones with a washable filter.
I downsized from a 3000 sq ft 50's home to a condo built in 2013 that was only 1000 sq ft in size. I didn't know how much outdoor air an electric clothes drier sucked into the house until we moved into that very tightly built condo. Bathroom vents could not move air outside when the dryer was on, in fact, air is sucked in through the vents! During the winter and when the dryer was on and the over the stove exhaust fan was on, you would begin to feel a chill even with the miniscule electric heaters trying to keep up. I haven't gotten approval yet from strata for an air inlet with heat exchanger in the laundry area so I'm thinking it's time to spend the money on a heat pump dryer. This still doesn't solve the stove exhaust fan problem.
definitely go for the heat pump dryer. You can mount a back-flow flap into the bathroom vent, that prevents the cold air from entering the wrong way. And you can look into, whether you can upgrade the stove vent into filter mode only (dumps the air back into the condo). You do accumulate some costs, as you need active carbon filters, which are not cheap and need to be replaced every so often. And you do need to pay attention to humidity levels, as the humidity is no longer dumbed. But generally open two windows for a short period in colder weather conditions will bring it down.
I’ve had my LG heat pump dryer for 4mo in my new build home and I love it. I’m in ND, so the last thing I wanted was for a dryer to pump out so much hot humid air when it’s -20F out. The cycles take about 50% longer on the normal setting but close to average vented dryer times when using the “power” setting. I also appreciate how it dries my laundry at lower temperatures.
I have the Samsung unit, and it's indeed much more efficient. The biggest benefit for me, though, with a house full of teenagers, is that this cut my work in half: I had to keep reminding them to move their clothes to the dryer, and then again after the dry cycle. Now I only have to remind them once per load, at the end. 😃
I have this washer, and I love it. I bought a $30 mini-vac that takes Makita batteries, and an $8 skinny sucking attachment and I don’t have a spec of lint on the radiator. It takes 30 seconds, I use it after every load. And the unit is super quiet.
I have had my condensing Miele dryer for almost 20 years. I’m a builder (Canada cold climate) of high efficiency homes and one issue with vented dryers is that is causes negative pressure. This is a problem is you have a woodstove and could also be a problem with gas fired appliances. It can back draft the wood stove. The heat produced by a condenser dryer is a good thing in winter (heating) but is a heat load in summer (air conditioning), but in summer laundry can be air dryed. I’m currently building a new house for my house and will be looking into the new heat pump dryers. Thanks for your video. Very informative!
I think it’s very important to point that a condense dryer is NOT the same as a heat pump dryer Condense one is basically a classic vented dryer with a tank for condensate. And it actually uses more energy than a classic one. Heat pump one is one step further and recycle the whole heat so you don’t need energy to warm up fresh air
Not really, the condense dryers are a bit better (in cold climate). Over here in Europe, both are not allowed to be sold for like 10+ years (Switzerland it's been 12 years). They're like 4-12 times less efficient (taking heating costs also into account.)
A condenser dryer is more efficient than classic electric; and depending on what math you care about it's in the realm of classic gas too. You do trade off time though.
I have the Samsung Bespoke Combo unit. After a period of adjustment my wife has found she gets more laundry done that with separate washer and dryer. As for cycle times it varies depending on cycle we choose. Speed wash less than 90 minutes and combined, average about 2 hours per load. As an HVAC tech I’m glad to see someone actually talk about the hidden cost saving in the heating and cooling of the house that no one ever thinks about.
I live in a small condo and I recently replaced my old washer/dryer wash station with a stacked LG set, including a heat pump driver. LG has 24 inch and 27 inch units, either stacked or combined in washtower configurations. LG also has one of the new generation of combined washer/dryer units, like the GE one. Another big savings with a heat pump dryer is not needing the dryer vents to be cleaned (which can become a fire hazard if not cleaned). I really hated the venting in my place, as dust would escape (such as through a secondary lint trap), and I needed to run a loud booster fan because of the length of the ducts. The new washer and dryer set are much, much quieter, and I no longer need the vents and booster fan. The heat pump dryer has already saved me a lot of electricity. I would say it would take me maybe 10 years to pay for not only itself but also the cost of the paired washer. As it's a heat pump dryer, a load takes a little longer to dry (about 20 minutes). Heat pump dryers take a bit longer than both condenser dryers and vented dryers. But the clothes are less stressed out from excess heat so they may last longer. Opening the dryer door releases a bit of humidity, but the clothes are perfectly dry after a minute of airing out. The high spin cycle of the direct drive washer also gets rid of a lot of the water so the heat pump dryer is helped quite a bit in shortening the drying time. I have the excess water from the heat pump dryer drained out to the same pipe as the washer. There is a water reservoir housed in the dryer that would otherwise need to be emptied. The only thing I use the reservoir for is an occasional condenser clean. Getting lint buildup on the condenser is probably one of the worst things that could happen (as the machine would need to be taken apart to access that part to fully remove lint), so it's something to keep on top off. A condenser wash is also part of a regular cycle, and it's important to regularly clean out the nested lint traps. Both the washer and dryer provide maintenance reminders.
I have owned the Samsung version for about four months now, and I love it. I chose this model because the LG reviews were not good enough-the same problem for most people, so I figured that would also be my experience. I also chose Samsung because I find their customer service to be better than average. So far this is one of the best purchases I have made for efficiency and environmental impact. And bottom line- I can put it anywhere and plug it into a regular outlet?!?
We have the cheaper Bosch version of these and they are excellent. Was is important to know, that the dried clothes need another 5 or 10 minutes to air out after the machine decided they are done. Put them in a basket and wait a little. That's gets the last bit of moisture out of them. Also the actual drying time is much shorter than initially displayed. My drying program says 2:15 hours but it's always done after 40 minutes or so.
@@SavageBits That's how this system works. Your clothes are not totally overheated like other dryers. I would think it's also a lot better for the clothes as well.
We built a really tight home -0.3 ACH/50, and I didn’t use a heat pump dryer at first. We started noticing a whistling sound every time we ran our dryer. I was putting our home under negative pressure every time we ran a load. Bought an LG heat pump set and problem is gone. Matt is correct on this!!!!
@@psychic1999 we have an ERV that is separately ducted from the hvac ducting. Whole house dehumidifier as well. Plenty of fresh, filtered air and low low power bills.
Now do that for your stove hood, it's going to be the same. The truth is the initial costs of an all in one is significantly higher, it does less laundry per day than a pair of washer and dryer can do, and the operating cost don't offset it for several years. Also the heat pump units are prone to more repairs
Those are all true statements. That said, even doing the loads of laundry slower, they can keep up with most family's demands. I do worry about the repairs (as I do with my heat pump hybrid water heater), but I am hoping that the engineering of these things is good enough for the heat pumps to remain reliable. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up the more common failures are on things like the drum bearings, water pumps, and electronics. Heat pumps are, essentially, fairly simple devices and being sealed systems don't usually wear out as easily as some of that other stuff.
Anyone who buys that washer as low as it is hasn't done nor will do much laundry in their lives. Get that thing on a pedestal and set the dryer down on another. Taking a knee to do a load of laundry? No freakin way.
I love our Miele units. So efficient. Not sure what model you have, but we fit about 10-12 towels or a huge king size comforter in ours... Laundry machines should be run as full as possible, they are more effective at cleaning.
_"machines should be run as full as possible"_ -- yeah, I was really surprised when he viewed the machine as full with just those four towels. Obviously it depends on the size of the towel, but the space left in the machine when he pulled it back out, clearly there was enough room for at least one more towel, since with the front loader, you really do want it filled to the top. Obviously there's a point where you've gone too far, i.e. it's so stuffed that the clothes don't move at all. But you'd have to work really hard to accomplish that. If the drum volume is "just filled" then as soon as the goods being washed get wet, they will move around just like they're supposed to. To be clear, this is for front-loader machines. The top-loaders with the agitator don't handle full loads as well, and shouldn't be completely filled.
Samsung design is by far the best. Samsung unit can actually self clean the coils. Other units can't do this and will become a hot mess in 5 yrs. Only downside of Samsung unit is the pathetic 1 yr warranty. Buy from costco to get 2 yrs and then add the 3 yr extended warranty for $70. Getting a total 5 yr warranty was the piece of mind I needed to pull the trigger on this new tech. So far the Samsung unit is a dream. Cuts the work of laundry by 50%. Throw a load in before bed and wake up to clean and dry clothes in the morning
I do know the Whirlpool 7.4 cu. ft. Front Load Hybrid Heat Pump Dryer WHD862CHC. Does a horrible job with the secondary lint filter letting lint through and then the machine has a permanently fixed screen that you have to take the whole unit apart to get to the condenser to clean it. Doing 2 to 3 loads most days of the week ends up building a substantial amount of rent on the Primary condenser within 3 to 4 months within a year. The dryer had so much accumulation that had bypassed both the primary and secondary lint filters and the lint screen that I had to have service come out disassemble the unit to clean it as it couldn’t get air through the condenser And was venting air out the front of the unit… It would also be interesting to see how much heat the units add to the home in the bowl the summer that has to be cool and in the winter that takes heat load away my laundry room gets pretty toasty in the summer.
Hey Matt, long time lurker of your channel here. I recently went with the LG combo ventless system. It's a new technology, and it's been a bumpy ride learning how to maintain it correctly (just like you said, lint control is SUPER important), but it has saved me $50-$75 on every power bill (2 mo. cycle) ever since.
Agree, however, the biggest issue I see, according to some videos/shorts I've run across is maintenance, or rather, folks not knowing they should clean out their dryer vents periodically, judging by how clogged some were when cleaned out after many years in many cases. If I can afford to do so, I'd like to replace both the aging dryer (240V) and washer and go with one of these ventless combos instead.
The main issue is that you have to clean not just the lint filter every cycle, but you have to take it apart and clean off the internal condenser coils about every month (varies by brand and number of dryer loads you do). Some models even have an internal self-cleaning coil washing system, but they don't get it quite right yet.
Love my GE all in one. I have modified the filter to make it work better! There are a number of videos with options, mostly adding more sealing around the edges.
This also makes one think about their carbon footprint in terms of where to live. When I left Connecticut to live in Las Vegas, a colleague flipped out about how wasteful it was "cooling the desert' and the casinos with the doors open ... I replied it is more expensive to heat than cold area. So I am back in CT and living in a 4400 square foot house in Vegas is cheaper to condition the air than a 2700 square foot house in CT. Thanks for the numbers, that is a huge savings - even if the numbers are off my 20% it is amazingly impressive.
I bought a ventless washer/dryer combo a few months ago and I love it. I could see the throughput being a problem for family that does a lot of laundry since you lose the ability to wash one load while drying another but it's been great for me.
I bought one several years ago for a one bedroom rental I own. I tell the tenants to not save up laundry for laundry day, but instead to start a load just before leaving for work; it runs when they are out, and they don’t notice the long cycle - I tell them not having to move the laundry from the washer to the dryer is sort of a bonus.
@@stevebabiak6997 not moving the laundry was one of the main selling point for me. I always do laundry on Sunday nights and I had a bad habit of falling asleep before I put my clothes in the dryer. lol
Apartments are small these days. So in that perspective you can understand this European size. I agree with you on the size issue. I have a 94 square meter apartment with a dedicated tiny laundry room which makes a big difference. I currently only have one washer and one dryer unit, but this elongated room despite a slanted ceiling can host 1 freezer, one hot water tank, 4 units 60 centimeter wide each. I can have 2 washers on the bottom and 2 dryers on the top. I even have room for legs that hoist these 2 towers that you can have storage drawer embedded in. Plus I have an Elfa drawer tower at the entrance to the room. Sliding door. Plus the same room has the main water in the back behind the machines. Plus the circuit system is embedded within the wall. Pretty amazing actually
I live in freezing cold Canada and my ventless dryer dumps the heat and humidity into my house, which is perfect because in winter we need a whole house humidifier.
@@akshonclipThat's not true. If that were the case it would be a perpetual motion machine. It is inefficient and any heat loss during operation will be left in the space it's operating in.
@ You obviously have no idea how heat pumps work. They scavenge existing heat energy out of the air. They don’t convert electricity to heat energy like resistive elements do.
I’ve got that GE all in one. I’ve had it for just over a year. The one thing I will say is clean the filter! After each use. Dry more than the machine says. Get all the drips gone from the door area. To clean the filter I vacuum it. Then keep it out for awhile to allow the rest of the heat and moisture to escape. I love mine, it works well. But if you have dogs that you dry off with towels that get muddy carefully clean by washing those filters with Dawn and lots of water. Go ahead and hook up to your machine with your phone and the machine tells you what you need to do. After I washed those muddy towel’s and vacuumed the filter I got a notice from the company that I needed to wash the filters on my phone. The very fine mud particles had clogged the filter and I really couldn’t tell by looking at it. But as soon as I started washing it I could tell. I got a long attachment for the vacuum and a long brush that I use frequently. The more diligent you are with keeping the filter clean the longer the machine will last.
Our Samsung washer takes 22-26 minutes to wash, and the gas dryer takes 42 minutes to dry. Yes, the dryer is vented. With 25 solar panels and two power walls, we pay only a few bucks for gas annually for washing and drying.
This was a very interesting video. I thought these all-in-one units were more of a Europe niche thing, but now I know differently. The comments on the video are also very educational if you're considering one of these units. I see there are some pros and cons. When telling my wife about this video she asked what happens when some of the items in the wash cycle need to be rack dried, while the rest need to go though the dryer cycle? I haven't figure that out yet.
There are options to turn the dryer off and only do a wash cycle. Then after pulling out the clothes that need to be rack dried you can select a dry only cycle for the rest. I've been using a smaller version of this (also by GE) for 3 years and it works wonderfully!
We end up doing a lot of loads back to back on a weekend day, combo unit will take a lot longer. Combo unit, every wash/dry cycle has to run complete before starting another load, separate units - after the first wash you are washing and drying at the same time until the last dry. It's also really expensive.
@@davidmorrow4195 we had to adapt our washing schedule to make it work. With a standard washer I would inevitably forget to move a load and have to rewash it taking even more time. That problem is completely taken care of with an all-in-one. I can start a load and leave for work and it's dry when I get home! Doing smaller loads every day instead of a washing marathon on the weekend honestly frees up a ton of time on the weekend and then isn't derailed by weekend plans that leave you away from home.
A technician servicing my washing machine once advised me not to put more than 2-3 towels in a single load. He recommended putting other clothes in with towels. Towels absorb a ton of water, and that makes them heavy during a spin cycle, which is hard on parts (springs and glides).
Another way to use a regular dryer and minimize impact on indoor air volume is to use a ducted intake from the outside directly to the back of the dryer. There’s a grill or air intake slots on the back of the dryer. The intake duct can be routed up like a snorkel for access and insulated.
I suspect many people watching this video would like to learn more about ducted intake to a dryer. Can you tell us more? Linos? Other people who have done this?
On the back of the dryer are air intake slots. Make a sheet metal box large enough to enclose it with tabs on the contact side to allow screws to attach it. One side of the box needs a hole with a neck on it sized to accept the duct: could be round or rectangular, but I used 6” round. A hvac shop can make the box if needed. I extended it up high enough access the pipe. The hole to the outside will need a backdraft damper to keep outside air from blowing in. If the dryer is below an attic space that’s even better, but run the duct to the soffit instead of sucking air from the attic. Be sure to insulate the duct in the laundry area to keep it from sweating. You could also make the duct out of insulating duct board. Hope this helps.
I have that GE washer and it's great. Drying is way easier on clothes so they come out nice and probably last longer but you really need to leave the main door and lint screen ajar so it can to dry out. There's enough of water and lint trapped in there after drying that leaving it closed up for a week can grow mold. Use your inspection scope to see what I mean. They need to redesign that with easier access to clean that whole area out. Maybe a dust separator too. Also gotta be careful vacuuming in there - jamming a hose in will easily mash over the exchanger fins.
Hi Matt. Could you run full loads on each and measure the real world electricity consumption for both setups in Kwh? Thanks again! This will be a great addition to my upcoming build.
I found that solar drying with a clothesline in South Texas dries clothes pretty quickly. And if your lifestyle demands just that one clothing item in the next 20 minutes, then maybe change your priorities. Hanging clothes to dry is relaxing and relieves stress. When you have a decent sized back porch you can solar dry when its raining - unless it continues to rain all day.
I do way too much laundry to play around with hanging. It's not at all 'relaxing' when you have 3-4 loads per week (at least) and still have other chores and family/work commitments. Are you retired?
Your right my wife and I have be married going on 36 years and we’ve been hanging clothes out side the whole time spring summer and fall even on not so cold winter days, only problem ever now and then birds with shit all over them and back to the washer they go 😅
I just bought an LG All In One; I love the thing, works awesome for me. LG WM6998HBA; I don't miss seeing my electric meter take flight when the dryer is running.
I'm glad my washer and dryer is in the unconditioned garage after watching this! A small inconvenience saves me several hundred dollars in conditioned air per year! The math sounds about right.
In the winter when its cold outside I time my dryer use for the warmest part of the day. Since I dont need to do laundry every day, i also pick the warmest day of the week. In the summer I turn the dryer on in the evening or early morning before temperature rises. Also if your drier is in the basement and its not conditioned space, cracking open a window by the drier will help.
Great video. some to add. As an hvacr tech, I can say this equipment is going to give our trade more work. Cool equipment but for majority of people it won’t last 5 years. If you have an isolated laundry room with a door, and don’t need your laundry room as warm as the rest of the house, you can bring in make up air to compensate that loss some what, and Add a heat exchanger to the exhaust and help preheat the intake air. Or Do what they do in other parts of the world and run it into a bucket of water, ( unless it’s gas). no heat loss, no cleaning the dryer pipe. Heat pumps are great, but Remember, they rate efficiency by how much it cost to run new, and clean coils, not how often it needs maintained or fixed.
I would suggest including the costs of the units into the calculation. Assuming the GE is more expensive, how long to recover the cost difference? Thanks, your site is top notch!
The issue with these all in one units, comes down to being your only laundry source; Especially if you have a larger family or a consistent need for multiple back to back loads. Sure it can take a little less time as a whole for a single load, but you aren't able to start a second load when the initial wash cycle is over while the other is drying. So in reality, you aren't saving time if you're changing from a standard US spec high capacity set, you're actually costing yourself another hour because now that second load is going to take 2 hours to do too. If you have another set than you're fine, but most aren't going to have two sets of laundry appliances. My partner and I do our laundry separately. He's an emt, so his stuff needs washed separately. I work from home, so generally I'll run my laundry, and do bedding which itself is 2 loads with a split king and 2 quilts, and towels/rags during quick breaks from work. That's just for two of us, and not even separating out my cloths by cotton/tech fabric light/dark. On top of his clothes, he has bedding from work. So my 4 loads would take at least 8 hours in one of these instead of 5 with separate machines.
It takes almost twice as long but it uses about 1/4 the energy. As long as your load is done by the time he needs to use it, you could make it work with your schedules. It's not like towels and bedding need to be done every day.
4 loads per week for 1 person? I do 1.25 loads for my clothing and bedding each week. Maybe try wearing your non base layers for more than one day. I'm pretty greasey and can wear my flannel shirts for at least 2 days usually 3 before washing. Bath towels can be used at least 3 or 4 times before washing, even as many as 6. If you are not sleeping naked bedding only needs to be washed once a month(i sometimes go 6 weeks, its just not that dirty). The pillow case is weekly though. If the clothes don't touch your skin they don't really need to be washed much. Maybe my tolerance for dirt is abnormally high, idk.
Thanks Matt for the video on your experience with the all-in-one systems. I have been considering the vent-less dryers for a while now but this looks like a game changer. I see that several manufacturers are now offering these systems.
Mieles are deceptive. They're smaller than American machines physically, but if you check the load amounts, they're similar to regular U.S. market machines. You can really stuff them full and still get clean clothes.
You can always stuff front loaded washers because of how it moves clothes and water using gravity. You just can’t stuff dryers since you need air space to efficiently dry.
@buildshow Yeah I was wondering why you weren't using the cubic foot rating when talking about appliances. I checked out on the numbers because you just ad.ited to quoting a chat gpt. Haven't had even a 50% success rate on those getting even basics right, I doubt those numbers are accurate in more than one basic field.
@@buildshow When in doubt (RTFM) check your manual. There is a weight recommendation on it. But in my experience, yes, stuff it full. If you check in like 10min later in the cycle, you can see how much space is still left in your washing machine. The laundry really shirks together, when it's wet.
I had a front load washer (big brand) develop a door gasket leak (horribly expensive to replace) and a 15 year old obsolete dryer with noisy bearings. As my washer was one of those "green machines" that did a crappy job of actually cleaning ----- I was happy to have an excuse to check the current market. I was surprised to find these combo ventless (currently available) all rated fairly high on the cleaning! I purchased the one with the highest **CLEAN** rating-- a Samsung model at the time. I bought it for just under twice the cost to repair the existing machine. The first issue I had was with the delivery ---- I paid for install and haul-off of both the old machines. The delivery guys tried to do a driveway drop. I had a hard copy of the order to show them. They weren't really happy, but they did do the full service install/ haul-off. The second issue I had was the (lack of) directions that came with it --(Where da heck do I put the detergent?). It is actually all here on TH-cam! 😊
mine is in the garage too. A non-vent is going generate heat that must be removed in Summer. I lived in a house in Abu Dhabi with a non-vent. I hated it. Always had to empty the water tank.
Same here. Although I've not used the electric dryer in over 10 years now and just use the line (video on my channel: Solar Clothes Dryer). I also power the clothes washer on solar power, aside from the gas fired tankless water heater.
Clothes pins are my area of experience. Ikea reds sold prior to 2010 have withstood 2 decades of continuous outdoor use and I leave them on the lines year round. Italian made Cosatto pins are my current favorites. Heavy wood pins are OK, but if they get wet then they can leave tannin stains where they pinch. Wet wood doesn't last. Most domestic plastic pins will not last a year. After line drying, finish in the cloths drier on low or no heat tumble. This softens the fabrics and removes any remaining wrinkles. No ironing needed after that.
I have three kids as well and my advice to any family is to pick up a Maytag commercial model because it’s been the most reliable laundry machine that I’ve had. I get that it’s low efficiency, but when your laundry machine is down you’re going to spend a lot of money and time driving to and from the laundromat to get your laundry done.
You need to add the additional cost in the warm months to cool the house and subtract in the winter the lower cost of heating. We had a ventless dryer and it added to much heat to the house. Took it out and hang the clothes to dry. Clothes dry faster on a line than in the condensation dryer most of the year.
For sure line drying uses so much less energy. Back in the day, i lived in a cold climate and would hang dry in the winter too. Was kinda weird seeing the frozen cloths get dryer and dryer.
With the current crop of combo units you really don't need to worry about this at all. They use around 1.5 to 2kwh total for a conventional wash/dry cycle. Even if 100% of that was waste heat (it's not, a lot of the heat goes out with the drain water) it would only represent 7000btu of additional cooling - practically nothing. If your AC is running well that's like half a kwh of cooling per load, which even in the most expensive areas is practically negligible.
It depends on the technology. The GE unit here is, I believe, a heat pump dryer. It does not add any heat to the house at all. The heat pump has a hot side and a cool side (like all heat pumps), pulling heat from the cool side to heat the hot side. Air circulates past the hot side first, heating it, then goes into the dryer drum to dry the clothes, then exits past the cool side where the air is cooled back down. Cooling the air condenses the water vapor so it can be drained. Worst case scenario, the net change in temperature of the room air is nil because any heat the dryer put into the room air, it took out later. I don't know how all the different heat pump dryers are designed, but it's entirely possible (likely even) that there are designs that use a completely closed loop, so that the dryer doesn't exchange any air with the room at all. There are other "condensing" dryers that do though. They use hot air to dry the clothes, but the heat for the air is produced conventionally (resistive heating element) and then the moist air from the clothes is cooled using the room air to condense the vapor to extract it from the air. That type of dryer does add heat to the house. Given your experience, I think it highly likely that's the kind of ventless dryer you were using.
I know it would add another penetration, but wouldn't having an inlet and an outlet for dryers in a super-efficient home like that make sense? Is there a market for a dedicated Inlet ?
Intake directly to the dryer? Maybe if the climate is very moderate for much of the year. Downsides: - If the air is cold it still has to warm up, so the calculations still apply. - If it is a hot humid summer location, I think it would also result in inefficiencies on that end as well by requiring higher dryer temperatures to get the same performance.
Aparentley the US DOE has developed a ultrasonic dryer which will basically “shake out” all the moisture and cut energy and drying times significantly. My old house i had a frigidaire that moved 150cfm (verified with a vanometer) i found setting the spin cycle to extra long high speed wicked out enough moisture i only had to run the dryer for 30 min on low, so i removed about 50% of my air but i had a fresh air intake into my continuously running furnace so basically the furnace was supplying the air, i also undersized the furnace so it ran a lot longer and basically ended up heating the structure like radiant heat so heat loss was minimal. Now i live in a baseboard house so i put a passive 4” intake by the dryer so air isn’t being pulled out of the living structure and being supplied from outside primarily which has helped comfort
I bought a Maytag commercial washer that can handle a hell of a lot more than three or four towels per load...and I have a rotary clothes dryer on my back deck, so I don't even use the dryer that came with the house. Love the crispness and smell of line-dried clothes in the fresh air and sunshine and save a ton of money on my electric bill while not having to do endless loads of laundry...and my clothes and linens seem to last longer by not putting them through a hot dryer. Hanging clothes on the line is also good exercise.
I 90% air dry my clothes with a fan inside the house and use the dryer for 10 minutes to fluff them. Too much pollen and summer humidity here for line drying--they'd still dry, but I'd wilt.
We got the Samsung equivalent a couple of months ago. We love it, clothes come out clean and dry and the cycle times aren't too bad. The Samsung unit actually washes the coils every cycle, so far I haven't had to do anything to clean it out.
Super fast tip number 2 take the one-way flap out of your useless exhaust fan in your dryer space. If you can then leave that door shut to the dryer space. What this will do is when your dryer does run it's going to suck that air from the outside heat it push it through your dryer and send it back outside so you're not wasting your condition there inside your living space. This tip and the other one I left are simple basically free tips that will save you some money
Yes! I like the idea of them and would love to not throw conditioned air outside anymore, but my current natural gas dryer was made 30 years ago and can finish a load of jeans in under 30 minutes. So that's going to be my standard for reliability and performance.
My Siemans (UK) heat pump condensing dryer lasted 12 years. What killed it was a faulty condensed water level sensor, and the cost of repair vs buying a new one with 5 year warranty wasn't that different. So now have a Bosch - which unfortunately is horrendously complicated and uses awful touch controls.
We’re finishing our build now (pre-Sheetrock ACH 50 of .65) so had to figure this out. Family of 7. We’ve been using/testing the LG combo unit heat pump (6998HBA) for 8 months and 502 cycles and with great success. We’ll have 3 in the new place. We believe it’s the future. I was so happy not having to design and add a make-up air system.
I have an LG all in one unit, and it's great. Going strong after like 3 ish years now and never want to go back. I feel like you always are trying new tools in clever new ways, and that is the part that I enjoy most about your channel. This video I think shows that on several levels, both that you thought of a under-discussed part about dryers and their air exchange needs, and also that you persisted and found a solution to your question by using a new tool (ChatGPT) in new ways. Keep up the creative work!
Except that several commenters have pointed out how inaccurate ChatGPT is for this (and many other) type of calculation and that Matt’s starting assumptions are likely faulty as well. That said, I’m here watching his channel because he covers a wide range of topics and gives me things to think about and investigate further 😊.
@@MichaelJ674 While it is true that ChatGPT can often be wrong, it is really about how you use it. It is merely a tool. If you use a hammer to try to put a screw into wood, you likely will have issues and people will call you crazy. If you use a screwdriver, you will get great results. In this case in the absence of people helping figure out this issue, I think that it was actually a clever way to get a sort of solution. Matt knows enough about how air infiltration and HVAC works to sanity check the math and process that ChatGPT is doing, and sometimes all you need is a starting direction. ChatGPT can be a great way to get that idea and methodology if you are already familiar with the subject matter.
If you want to understand actually how GPTs work and why they are good at some things and not at others, I highly recommend watching the video called "Let's build GPT: from scratch, in code, spelled out." by Andrej Karpathy. He is a key AI researcher and also a great teacher. After watching that, the weirdnesses that ChatGPT has made a lot more sense to me.
While it is true that ChatGPT can often be wrong, it is really about how you use it. It is merely a tool. If you use a hammer to try to put a screw into wood, you likely will have issues. If you use a screwdriver, you will get great results. In this case in the absence of people helping figure out this issue, I think that it was actually a clever way to get a sort of solution. Matt knows enough about how air infiltration and HVAC works to sanity check the math and process that ChatGPT is doing.
This video was super informative for me. We just bought the same unit but haven't installed it yet. The wife wanted it for the remodel and I had no idea how well these units would work. Perfectly timed video for me and answered all my doubts. Good job .
the biggest Issue I had was when I was overloading the machine. check the owners manual and go by weight vs visually thinking you have more space. really this is only an issue when doing a large load of bath towels.
I like the point about the door staying dry after the dryer cycle is finished vs separate units requiring the washer door to remain open afterwards. I've had the Miele setup for almost 3 years now and while I generally like it, had the GE unit been available then I would have chosen it instead. We always have to time laundry loads around when we will be available to switch from washer to dryer and being able to skip that would add a lot of flexibility.
Not sure if anyone already mentioned it but your fire risk goes way down also. I have this same model and in 18 months no issue. I do the same cleaning Matt mentioned here with the same tools. GE also has a good warranty on this machine and if the heat pump has an issue the entire heat pump components can be replaced as a single unit (at I assume a not super cheap price though).
Matt, there is a simple solution for the standard dryer. Build it into an insulated “closet” on an outside wall, with TWO outside air vents, and a weatherstripped insulated exterior door instead of the usual hollow core door. One vent lets outside air into the closet, which the dryer inhales as ambient air. The other connects to the conventional exhaust port on the dryer, blowing the moist hot exhaust air outside. The dryer could be gas or electric, since the air exhausts to the outside. Not the same efficiency as a heat pump dehydrating type dryer, but at least no inside conditioned air would be lost, and noise would be contained within the “closet”. You didn’t mention the price of the GE unit; bet it isn’t cheap.
Well, 3 things. 1. Cost is more than a conventional washer and dryer? 2. Complexity is much higher, so reliability I would expect to be lower and repair costs higher. 3. You can practically see thorough my house, so the energy savings I imagine is lower than in your house?
Any thoughts on the need to heat the space that the dryer is taking heat from to dry the clothes? I have my dryer in an already cool basement near a heat pump water heater. While it cuts down on the humidity for sure, it is notably cooler in the space compared to my old gas powererd water heater.
@@PatrickKQ4HBD Not necessarily. If you're laundry is an open basement, which many in northern us climates are... it has plenty of space to disperse that heat and humidity. My laundry is on my main floor and our dryer vent drops into an unfinished but still enclosed area of the basement (storage room) between the joists. Would I do a vent into that room? No. Those who can do this are likely to already be in older homes that aren't sealed tight or insulated like newer homes and finished basements are.
When we lived in Europe, one of the top things my wife looked forward to upon our return to America was the ability to ditch the pain-in-the-butt condensing dryer and go back to using a real American vented dryer. So that's what we did. No looking back.
@@buildshow Well, I'll take a look next time I'm in a Home Depot and passing the appliance section. It might be another 5 years before the prices on these things come down to average-joe levels, but heck, the future is a long game, after all.
The thing in Europe is that low-cost washers and dryers are intentionally designed to waste time: 3 hours per load to wash, 5 hours per load to dry. And you usually have to run the dryer twice, because the clothes come out wet. This is where the reputation comes from. I’m sure Miele are much better, but cost 5x the basic models.
@@markmuir7338 No sure where you got that information... Most washing machines take about 1 or 1,5 hours to wash and most dryers between 2 and 3 hours (drying times can be a lot shorter depending on the load) I've used a variety of cheap and expensive machines and have never encountered intentional time wasting. You could have had a soaking option turned on, which is designed to let the clothes soak for about an hour or two. My current washing machine is about 15-20 years old and washes in a little over an hour
This is amazing for people who "hate A.I.". I see that the GE sticker assumes 6 loads per week for the $19. A person must factor in their personal use habits for sure. For us we would be about 2 loads or so per week, but worth keeping in mind for the future. How much heat is the unit creating? Does it get really hot in your laundry room, or is the cool side of the heat pump offsetting the heat side?
Fact! Heat pump dryers, all of them break down 50+ percent faster than traditional gas dryer. Source - I owned Samsung and GE newest models. Yet my 14 year old Maytag runs like if it was 1 day old. WE NEED RELIABLE DRYERS!
This is exactly the thought I had when we were looking at putting a washer/dryer combo in our 5th wheel RV. I am constantly reminding my (ahem) "life partner" that anytime she uses the exhaust fans in the bathroom or kitchen that the air leaving the house has to be "made up", usually through leaks in our home's envelope, and that this air must then be heated or cooled again. Anyway, we're really giving the LG and GE units a hard look to see if they're going to meet our needs. I believe the future of drying is ventless.
One thing ( maybe small ) that might be overlooked here is how much heat the vent less units are putting into the house. The heat pump is dumping the energy it takes to condense the water on the evaporating coil and putting into the room. A bonus in winter - but - an extra load in the summer. I wonder if some people that are having poor performance with these heat pump units are not letting them breathe as they need to ( small closed room, etc)
These will do better in conditioned areas that can breathe. Reviews of people who put them in unconditioned garages for them to not work well in the summer because there's nowhere to dump the heat and humidity. So figure, essentially a closet that people will close the door to for noise reduction these definitely won't work well.
I assume like a dehumidifier that warm dry air get release. So agree good in winter but not summer. Ventless could be vented outside too I guess in summer… with a make up air system preferably.
_" The heat pump is dumping the energy it takes to condense the water on the evaporating coil and putting into the room"_ -- no, it's not. There are more basic "condensing" dryers, which use the room air to cool the heated air coming from the dryer. The heated air is heated conventionally, with a heating element. So yes, these types of driers add heat to the room. But the heat pump dryers are effectively a closed cycle. Heat is pulled from the air to condense the water out of it, and that's the heat that's put back into the air to dry the clothes. The heat pump is used to create a temperature differential that can handle both ends of the drying cycle, i.e. evaporating moisture and then condensing it again later.
@@717dash_cam _"there's nowhere to dump the heat and humidity"_ -- there's no heat or humidity to dump. The moisture is condensed and drained out the same drain the washer uses. The dryer doesn't _generate_ any heat at all, it just uses a heat pump to move heat from one place to another, creating a temperature differential that is used to first dry the clothes (the hot side) and then condense the moisture out from the air (the cold side).
One thing to note about the energy star guide. I believe that figure is only for the energy used in washing. You should look at the Canadian one for a more accurate energy usage including the drying.
$2550 plus tax for a new unit. In 9 years you will break even on energy cost at $300 per year savings. Wait your unit will need replaced way before that.
2024 black Friday at Home Depot had these under $1700. 30% tax credit for heat pump and effective cost is 1190. Sell your old washer dryer online for $100, cost is $1090. Assuming you actually pay $0.1/kwhr ( not many places are that cheap in US with taxes and fees), break even according to Chatgpt would be
I solved the problem on heavy current carrying appliance ran copper wire to device and torqued screws. Second placed a clothes line on the house. Third dedicated a room to dry clothes in on dryer racks. No more shrinkage of clothes! 10% more life on socks.
The future of washers and dryers >>>>>> old fashioned top load washers and front load gas dryers. My 35 year-old Sears Kenmore washer and dryer are still working just fine with a couple igniter replacements on the dryer and no repairs on the washer. When we moved about 10 years ago I planned to buy new machines for new house. BUT, the reviews on the front load washers were often poor and the wash time sucked. And, the stores only one or two top load washers and they were bottom end cheap junk. So, we kept the old machines. The washer does a large load in about 25 to 30 minutes. On the middle temp the dryer does that load in about 45 to 50 minutes. If I put it on the high temp, it will do it in 25 minutes. I don't get the supposedly "high efficiency" machines that have to run twice as long to do the job.
If your electricity costs as much as we pay in California, then we use gas. A friend in CA got rid of his heat pump water heater and is saving over $200 to $300 a month on his utility bill and only 2 people.
hey Matt, love your channel & content, but in this case I think there are several errors in ChatGPT's math that are giving a very wrong result:
1. It doesn't actually use heating/cooling degree days in the calculation. In fact, it assumes you are cooling at a 20deg difference 365 days of the year AND you are heating at a 30deg difference for 365 days of the year, which is obviously nonsense
2. It assumes a COP for your AC of 0.9, which is ridiculously low
3. It assumes your heat source is 75% efficient as if you had an old gas furnace (that's where the 0.024 BTU/cuft/degF comes from) but and then applies another 90% efficiency factor on top of that and calculates based on electrical rates (not gas prices). So this would be like heating your home with electric resistance heat that is only 67.5% efficient.
All that to say, it's cost calculations are WAY high.
By my calculations:
BTU/hr = cfm * 1.08 * deltaT
So even if we assumed it's 95deg outside for 6 months of the year, and 40 deg outside for the other 6, it works out like this: (assuming dryer runs 1 hr/day)
Total Annual Cooling = 200cfm * 1.08 * 20degF * 182.5hrs = 788,400 BTU --> 788,400/3.412/1000 = 231 KWH --> (assuming COP of 4 and $0.15 electrical rate) 231/4*0.15 = $8.66
Total Annual Heating = 200cfm * 1.08 * 30degF * 182.5hrs = 1,182,600 BTU --> 1182600/3.412/1000 = 346 KWH --> (assuming COP of 3 and $0.15 electrical rate) 346/3*0.15) = $17.33
But in fact the temperature differentials are not usually so high. By using heating/cooling degree days I get: (assuming 2800CDD & 1200 HDD)
Total Annual Cooling = cfm * 1.08 * cdd * hours_per_day_dryer_use = 605,800 BTU --> 177 KWH --> $6.65
Total Annual Heating = cfm * 1.08 * hdd * hours_per_day_dryer_use = 259,200 BTU --> 75.97 KWH --> $3.80
For comparison, you could also check out this article on Green Building Advisor: www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/heat-pump-clothes-dryers and the accompanying spreadsheet (docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WgkVxct7YJUDmYs2qIM_Jhua0T6hHJp17h7tEbiP1eg/edit?gid=0#gid=0)
He estimates a total savings of about 29cents per load (including the electrical savings from the efficiency of the machine itself). If running 365 times per year, that puts total savings in the range of $106 dollars (not $300-400). And he calculates the make-up air from venting to require 0.43KWH of electricity to heat/cool, which is like 6 cents per load (and that still assumes a 20degC avg temperature delta, which is too high for Austin).
So the cost savings by going ventless are actually pretty low (lower than I would have guessed). Note that none of these calculations account for added latent load, though, which would give you some additional savings.
Thank you for doing the math, I was about to. at 200CFM an hour a day I was right off the bat thinking maybe $20 a year in costs. Chat GPT is indeed very wrong, this is a quite complex question to ask it and don't think we should be using it here, just doing good ol' math as per above.
These calculations are much more in line with what I was able to come up with for electricity usage after our switch a few years ago. Electricity usage is not amazing, but definitely better than the previous early 1980s dryer we'd been using. That was pretty straightforward to compare (I have one morning every week I'm consistent with several consecutive loads) looking at my electric company's daily/hourly usage charts given we received the dryer in October so we were in that transition period between AC usage and heating season.
I've not found a great comparison for our heating (oil) costs, mainly because our winters have been less severe. Yes I've been pre-ordering 100 gallons less for a couple of years but I would attribute that much more to warmer winters and less from pushing air out through a duct dryer. Still, our laundry room (no thermostat) is definitely warmer in the winter than it was previously.
Regardless, for me personally I've felt the change to ductless worth it.
I spend nothing on makeup air because my washer dryer are outside the conditioned space!
It puts out 120 degree air (from what I found) so anytime you are cooling your house seems like an additional cost to not pump the air outside. Seems like in Louisiana (where he lives) the calculations would be far different as cooling per year is far greater than heating.
That doesn't take into account the machine costs either or the scary expensive repairs for a failure. If trends hold, these units will have a couple of repairs in their life, the cost of which will far surpass energy savings.
-IF- you are concerned about saving money, buy the simplest unit you can and keep it as long as you can. Better yet, buy one used.
I bought an old speed queen washer. 30 minute cycle time on heavy duty. Great agitator action for my dirty work close and no electronics to crap out. Win for me!!
Yep, that's the actual way to save money.
Ya Speed Queen washer for me too. That hi-speed spin cuts drying time by at least 40 percent or more.
Imagin Speed Queen making one of these! Simple, minimal electronics. I have had mine for almost 20years. NO problems.
New "energy efficient" machines are a joke. They take hours to wash and due to being misers with water, they don't clean well or rinse well. I'll take an old fashioned washer anyday
We sold off an old Speed Queen set, to make room for newer technology. Within 2 years, we had to have a technician come out to fix the washer, all over a sensor that failed in the lid. With the Speed Dryer, I fixed it myself for $10 with Amazon parts. Thinking we should have kept the Speed Queens 👍
I've read those Speed Queens are the MOST reliable as well. I'm all for making something last 20 years rather than filling the dumps with 3-year-old equipment.
The story of this video is not the dryer but the willingness of a user to put their faith in a tool that will satisfy the desire to have a quick answer regardless of users’s ability to validate the answer.
Back in energy crisis days (late 1970’s) folks ran the dryer outlet into their basements. To trap the lint, they would tape panty hose over the 4” outlet. It was weird to be in the basement when the dryer came on and a pair of legs inflated and wiggled around.
We had the panty hose on the washer outlet hose into the utility sink.
The trouble comes from inhaling residual detergent and fabric softener and small fibers.
Yes I remember this
LOL, I use the Pantyhose in 2024 in Australia in my little 2 bed apartment. Weirds out my friends when they come over for dinner 😁
@@dalekleinschmidt5453 worse than wearing the clothes you just washed with those same products?
I wouldnt rely on ChatGPT math. Its a language model, not compute engine. Many documented instances of delivering bad math.
I asked it to convert units once. It was wrong on multiple levels. It's terrible at math.
@@Rickmakes yea. You should consider it like a friend who talks non stop but nothing is verifiable from this yapper
Yeah less than half of the basic questions I asked were even close. You have to get to a paid model to get anything usable.
Yep, I was laughing at its attempts (in the video) to calculate the KWH and Cost per year for a regular washer and dryer. It obviously didn't comprehend the formula.
It's pretty good tool, a calculator isn't going to give you the right answer either unless you know how to use the tool correctly
First, I have followed your channel for years. Love your work. We moved into our new house during Christmas 2020. We bought a Whirlpool laundry pair. We did not have to worry about makeup air but we did have to worry about fire. There was no vent in the basement, just a filter box that basically recycled the lint into the air. The cost of running a vent was enormous as the laundry was on no outside wall. An addition poured a concrete slab where a vent would be. We started looking into the new heat pump technology. We first looked into the GE all in one like you purchased. First, they were in very short supply.. Second, we did not want to give up washing while also drying. Third, there were a lot of complaints about moist clothes coming out, That was not a deal breaker, just another annoyance. We finally settled on the LG large capacity (7,2 cu. ft.) dual inverter heat pump dryer. Again we ran into the short supply issue, but they started to appear but about 4 weeks out. The dryer is everything we wanted. Clothes come out absolutely dry. The drain system works flawlessly. The lint is gone. It takes everything the Whirlpool washer can wash. It uses 8 KWh per load, much less than the Whirlpool.
I had that same Miele system and really loved it. no venting and regular electric plug and was able to fit in a closet on the upper bedroom level win, win,win
Fast tip if you have a heat pump or a mini split, director dryer exhaust at your outdoor coil during the winter and run your heat when your dryer runs that will take that dryer heat and put it back into your house through the mini split. Or at least part of it. For free.
That is a really good point.
Switched my standard electric dryer for the LG 7.8cf heat pump dryer. Old dryer was 2019 energy star LG and pulled 6200w per the label. New dryer pulls 830w per the label. It's the bomb. And what you said about the air being sucked out. I removed the vent pipe and capped the hole. During the winter my old dryer when not in use would be 10 degrees colder than room temp due to the cold air infiltration and the laundry room stayed cold in the winter. Fixed that issue with the swap. Also notice a substantial reduction in lint in that room. The LG has a large access door on the front of the machine to clean the coil. Piece of cake. Super quiet, direct drive, DC motor with no belt. Cost $1100. Worth every penny, suspect full payback in a couple years.
This is what we’re looking at for our new house as well. So done with dryer vents and all the issues around them
As a European I really don’t understand why anyone is still using vent dryers. My mom got a condenser dryer in the 1990s. And we don’t even use our dryer often. Just in the winter for towels. Everything else we hang out except for winter where we use some room in the house. If you have controlled ventilation it will dry your laundry for free.
On your new dryer did you need a 3 prong 220 electric or can you run it on a standard one?
A standard 110 plug?
@@spencerhall4452 I haven't looked it up, but there's no reason an appliance designed to use 830W should need 220V. Plenty of 120V appliances in North America use more power than that: toasters, microwaves, waffle irons, space heaters, hair dryers....
GPT only factored in the sensible load. If you notice, it used 0.018 btus/cuft/deltaT, that's just the sensible difference, not enthalpy. The enthalpy difference between indoor 75deg 50%rH and outdoor 95deg 50%rH (average dew point in Austin this July was 73) would be 14.36 btu/lb or about 1.057 btus/cuft. GPT only factored 0.018x20deg = 0.36btu/cuft. Basically a third of the actual energy difference.
Keep in mind that the energy efficiency numbers on the stickers use national averages thus why Chats numbers were off a bit, since it was using location specific numbers to calculate.
@RBodge1234 They weren't off a bit, off by a factor of three. Mainly because gpt only factored the sensible btus based on the temperature difference. Didn't factor in humidity at all.
Ya these are NOT as good as it say's and they degrade pretty fast unless you take the top half off and clean the condenser every couple months. An if you don't live in the south these are a nightmare tbh. It takes 5x as long to get clothes "dry" with half a load, the only way it halfway works is if its mid summer. But even then the clothes are rather damp no matter season, the summer I can just turn it on manual for an extra hr but in the winter I had to get a REAL dryer to finish clothes off. The more its continuously used the worst the drying gets also. They need some type of Peltier plates or something to pull the humidity out better
PS. I got one bc on vacation in FL it seemed great and would work well with my solar in... Ohio... An anytime other then summer I end up using more electric on the heatpump them a coil dryer, Not including the extra power needed to heat the area it's in either...
@@dizzlethe7346 That's only the GE model. The LG and Samsung have dedicated coil cleaning cycles that spray down the condenser fins. I live in West where it's not humid but it certainly doesn't take "5x" as long to dry a load. A complete cycle might take 3 hrs if I set it to more dry in which case nothing comes out damp.
We've had the LG Wash Tower Ventless for about 2 years and it has been 100% trouble free so far! Solid performance. Have several littles in the house and we're doing laundry all the time. Big capacity, and energy efficient. Ventless all the way!
How's the lint capture working out? Supposedly that's the weak link on these units.
What about humidy levels remaining in the house and noise levels compared with the traditional one? Thanks.
@@TheBOOKofJOSEPHno increase in humidity levels since the system is closed while it dries and the water (condensate) gets pumped out and down the drain. Noise level is about the same for me but others claim it’s quieter.
@@DeuceDeuceBravo To the LG one we have has a 2 stage lint filter. It is effective. Once a year, I vacuum out the machine and haven't found over accumulation to be an issue.
The 2 biggest things that have been major improvements on the traditional Whirlpool machines that came with our house were:
1) Ability to relocate without extensive renovations to run a vent, drain, etc
We had a closet that was unused that back up against a toilet. Opened up the wall, tied in drain to the bathroom piping and fixtures. Electric was a breeze too. The project would have been exponentially more expensive if we didn't have the ventless option.
2) The efficiency and energy savings is much better than what we had.
The old whirlpool machines that came with the house died. They were from 2004 and a regular load of washing used 3x as much water as the LG one does. Looking at the energy stats for our machine, in 2.4 years we've done a total of 1612 wash or drying cycles. In that time, our energy consumption has been 1044.063kWh. The previous 1.2 years saw us use 1899.64kWh of electricity. If you're moving from a more modern energy start appliance the change won't be as drastic, but in our case, we couldn't be happier with the decision.
@@TheBOOKofJOSEPH We relocated washer and dryer from the garage into a renovated closet space on the back of our guest bathroom. In terms of noise, unless you are in that bathroom, we don't hear it. I just used a db meter to see if it could pick up the noise from the machine that is currently running washer and dryer simultaneously. I am in the living room about 30 ft away and separated by 1 wall. Db Meter is not picking up anything.
In terms of humidity, the LG tower doesn't release humidity into the room. Ventless heat pump machines don't need to get as hot as traditional machines, and any condensation that is created get recycled from the dryer down to the washer. I wash the drain hose every 6 months or so that connects the dryer to the washer (dryer is stacked on top of washer). All that to say, because it's ventless, it doesn't release moisture into the closet. Humidity is a non-issue.
We've had the same exact GE combo unit for about 4 months. It's been great in general, but for our family there is one caveat - you can't wash and dry at the same time (obviously!!). But the *total* time for doing multiple loads back-to-back is significantly longer, which we didn't realise before making the purchase.
Just gotta change it up and start loads before bed. Ready to fold laundry in the morning.
Time for two units.
yeah! thats why I went with the LG washcombo, Im using it with the wash pedestal. Allows me to run two loads at the same time in same footprint.
I have the ge same unit, I do big loads like pants at night before bed. Just change when you do loads and it works out better.
That's why you buy two of them. Most homes have room for two!
We have two sets of Miele washers & heat pump dryers stacked side-by-side (somewhat the same as yours, but the washers have the TwinDos system). We can fit way more than 3 or 4 towels in each one. We’ve found out that we could have gotten away with just one set, but two are really handy and gives you options. Keep in mind that these are European machines, but Europeans ALSO have large families and use these.
For our dryers, the only thing we do other than cleaning the regular lint filter is clean the plinth filer about once a month. We actually bought a couple spare plinth filters so that there’s always one to “hot-swap” and keep in service while the dirty one gets washed out. We’ve had this set up for about 2 years, and the condenser coils are as clean as a whistle. If they ever need to be cleaned, Miele makes a brush attachment for their canister vacs to clean the condenser area. I can’t speak to the GE, LG, Samsung, or other manufacturers’ offerings, but we’re over the moon pleased so far with the Mieles.
Not many Europeans have large families. If they have any children at all, most have just one.
@@drowe2 You missed the point. In very warm or very cold climates, it's not the cost of running the machine. It's the added cost of cooling or warming the house due to the negative pressure caused by venting the dryer to the outside. That also applies to gas dryers like yours (and mine) that are "cheap" to run.
@@drowe2 I live in Minnesota and we only run the A/C June through September. But Summer A/C wouldn't be the issue for us. Instead, it would be the negative-pressure lost heat of running the dryer in the winter. In locations with moderate climates (for example, California, Tennessee, etc.) it's not really an issue. So YMMV. If it's not an issue for you, or at least you believe it's not an issue for you, then don't worry about it.
@@drowe2 we run our A/C from March until November, and heat in the other months. In the Deep South, we don’t really have a lot of shoulder season and a huge issue with humidity.
@@drowe2 I looked it up and the combo washer/dryer he has is $2200 at Home Depot and it would be a breeze to install, at least in our house. That said, I will wait to hear out reliable they are long term. Also, having an all-in-one unit like would kill our ability to "pipeline" the washing and drying so laundry will take about twice as long.
Thanks!
We have the Samsung all in one ventless combo dryer and its been flawless. We use a $30 black and decker dustbuster to clean the lint filter which should cut down on the amount of lint that makes it to the condenser. Honestly everyone with a ventless combo unit like this should use a dustbuster to clean the lint tray. Also the samsung has a cleaning cycle it runs on the condenser that removes the lint build up. Very well built unit.
Simple paint brush also works well to clean the Samsung double chamber lint filter
I recently went with the Samsung unit! I saw Ben's repair & junk appliances video teardown on these units - I really hate how the Samsung is so "appy", but one thing he pointed out - Samsung dryer actually dried the clothes in all his tests, and it has a cycle that keeps the fins clean made me go for it. Good thing hear the GE is working for Matt though.
These new units rock - we start it before hitting the gym, clothes are clean and dry when we come back! You just have to adapt your schedule.
one other perk to the Samsung I've been enjoying - auto dispensing detergent from the reservoir, and this process being tied to the filter plug (so when you refill the tank, you clean the filter out first!)
I've had my Miele pair for 3 years and love them. I'm retired and down-sized, so the size is actually perfect. Because I was doing a major revamp of my space, I had to move plumbing, electrical, and terminate gas, and would have had to enter the ceiling to move the vent. Installing the ventless dryer and washer pair was less expensive on all counts. They now sit in a laundry closet with folding and hanging space just off the kitchen. My overall power bill definitely decreased, but I also switched over to smart LEDs everywhere, so it was hard to determine what contributed.
I'll bet the LED lights helped even more than the new dryer. One thing to keep in mind, just having less capacity, will usually make it more energy efficient for the dryer.
I’ve watched many videos that show that the GE, the Samsung and the LG all in ones have filters that do not trap 100% of the lint and that you often have to open up and clean off the coils to keep up your efficiency. Your average consumer has a hard enough time just keeping their lint filters clean. I do love how the fire hazard of lint build up in the exhaust hose is completely eliminated.
The Samsung actually washes the coils every load. I have had my unit since July and have not needed to clean the coils. I would hesitate to recommend Samsung because of their awful customer service, but the product has been rock-solid and extremely easy to use.
The only difficult part is that there's a large two-stage lint filter that takes ever so slightly longer to clean than a standard lint filter, and they recommend rinsing it which I do not do frequently.
Thank you for you so much for your excellent input!
The Samsung has a 2 stage lint filter , and has been mentioned cleans the condensing coils each cycle, and a self clean mode you can run every 20 cycles.
I have the Miele set and thick towels like you. The Miele has a capacity of 17 Lbs. I can fit 6 bath towels, 6 hand towels and one floor mat in one load. It's okay to stuff it full as laundry compacts down when it's wet. Everything is perfectly washed and rinsed in one hour and then dried in 2 hours.
Are you saying drying takes twice as long, or the same time as a wash? That is, two hours for a complete wash/dry?
@@stevep8773 it takes about two hours just to dry a big load of heavy towels. Typical mixed cotton loads take about 45 minutes to an hour to dry.
How's it do on bedding? How much is the unit?
@@Shylo_420 I have to dry all the sheet pieces separately otherwise they come out in a wrinkled mess. The units vary in cost from about $1000 to $2500, depending on the features you want.
I have 2 washers and 2 dryers in my laundry room... 7 kids, 5 dogs... And we upgraded to the LG....4 of them. Best thing we EVER DID. 8K later and we are happy. Sold our Samsung units and all in around 6500.
You are why I do not buy used appliances - your household would have worn out those machines long before you sold them off even though cosmetically they would have still looked pretty good. You also remind me next new set I buy I need to look into how to install a cycle counter.
Keep going Jason we need your kids to counter the demographic collapse here in the west.
I have a Bosch heat pump dryer in France after having a Samsung one in the US. The Bosch unit is vastly superior at keeping lint and debris from getting to the condenser coil. The Bosch uses a dual layer lint filter for the first stage of lint trap and then in front of the coil has a washable sponge filter about 3/4 inch thick that catches everything else. That filter takes about 3 minutes to rinse out in the sink once a month and keeps the coils completely clean. The US models need to implement a similar setup. The Samsung I had only had the two inner filters and a lot of lint made it past it and then stuck to the damp coil restricting the air flow as well as leading to odors. I've had none of those issues on my Bosch series 6 units. I spent about $600 for that dryer, vs the roughly $900 I spent on that Samsung. One thing to keep in mind for optimal efficiency those units need to be in a room that is at least somewhat conditioned space for the winter. Placing them in a garage that sits in the 40's in the winter will make the unit work much harder to dry the clothes, but since it's not sucking out conditioned air it makes more sense to have in your conditioned space.
Some of the newer units in the EU have a self cleaning coil system as well, not sure how it works but they cost a bit more and surprisingly are a bit less efficient than the ones with a washable filter.
I downsized from a 3000 sq ft 50's home to a condo built in 2013 that was only 1000 sq ft in size. I didn't know how much outdoor air an electric clothes drier sucked into the house until we moved into that very tightly built condo. Bathroom vents could not move air outside when the dryer was on, in fact, air is sucked in through the vents! During the winter and when the dryer was on and the over the stove exhaust fan was on, you would begin to feel a chill even with the miniscule electric heaters trying to keep up. I haven't gotten approval yet from strata for an air inlet with heat exchanger in the laundry area so I'm thinking it's time to spend the money on a heat pump dryer. This still doesn't solve the stove exhaust fan problem.
definitely go for the heat pump dryer. You can mount a back-flow flap into the bathroom vent, that prevents the cold air from entering the wrong way. And you can look into, whether you can upgrade the stove vent into filter mode only (dumps the air back into the condo). You do accumulate some costs, as you need active carbon filters, which are not cheap and need to be replaced every so often. And you do need to pay attention to humidity levels, as the humidity is no longer dumbed. But generally open two windows for a short period in colder weather conditions will bring it down.
I’ve had my LG heat pump dryer for 4mo in my new build home and I love it. I’m in ND, so the last thing I wanted was for a dryer to pump out so much hot humid air when it’s -20F out. The cycles take about 50% longer on the normal setting but close to average vented dryer times when using the “power” setting. I also appreciate how it dries my laundry at lower temperatures.
I have the Samsung unit, and it's indeed much more efficient. The biggest benefit for me, though, with a house full of teenagers, is that this cut my work in half: I had to keep reminding them to move their clothes to the dryer, and then again after the dry cycle. Now I only have to remind them once per load, at the end. 😃
And it only takes four hours to dry a load of laundry. Who wouldn't love that?
I have this washer, and I love it. I bought a $30 mini-vac that takes Makita batteries, and an $8 skinny sucking attachment and I don’t have a spec of lint on the radiator. It takes 30 seconds, I use it after every load. And the unit is super quiet.
Please link it for us!
I have had my condensing Miele dryer for almost 20 years. I’m a builder (Canada cold climate) of high efficiency homes and one issue with vented dryers is that is causes negative pressure. This is a problem is you have a woodstove and could also be a problem with gas fired appliances. It can back draft the wood stove. The heat produced by a condenser dryer is a good thing in winter (heating) but is a heat load in summer (air conditioning), but in summer laundry can be air dryed. I’m currently building a new house for my house and will be looking into the new heat pump dryers. Thanks for your video. Very informative!
I think it’s very important to point that a condense dryer is NOT the same as a heat pump dryer
Condense one is basically a classic vented dryer with a tank for condensate. And it actually uses more energy than a classic one.
Heat pump one is one step further and recycle the whole heat so you don’t need energy to warm up fresh air
Not really, the condense dryers are a bit better (in cold climate). Over here in Europe, both are not allowed to be sold for like 10+ years (Switzerland it's been 12 years). They're like 4-12 times less efficient (taking heating costs also into account.)
A condenser dryer is more efficient than classic electric; and depending on what math you care about it's in the realm of classic gas too. You do trade off time though.
I have the Samsung Bespoke Combo unit. After a period of adjustment my wife has found she gets more laundry done that with separate washer and dryer. As for cycle times it varies depending on cycle we choose. Speed wash less than 90 minutes and combined, average about 2 hours per load. As an HVAC tech I’m glad to see someone actually talk about the hidden cost saving in the heating and cooling of the house that no one ever thinks about.
I live in a small condo and I recently replaced my old washer/dryer wash station with a stacked LG set, including a heat pump driver. LG has 24 inch and 27 inch units, either stacked or combined in washtower configurations. LG also has one of the new generation of combined washer/dryer units, like the GE one.
Another big savings with a heat pump dryer is not needing the dryer vents to be cleaned (which can become a fire hazard if not cleaned). I really hated the venting in my place, as dust would escape (such as through a secondary lint trap), and I needed to run a loud booster fan because of the length of the ducts.
The new washer and dryer set are much, much quieter, and I no longer need the vents and booster fan.
The heat pump dryer has already saved me a lot of electricity. I would say it would take me maybe 10 years to pay for not only itself but also the cost of the paired washer.
As it's a heat pump dryer, a load takes a little longer to dry (about 20 minutes). Heat pump dryers take a bit longer than both condenser dryers and vented dryers. But the clothes are less stressed out from excess heat so they may last longer. Opening the dryer door releases a bit of humidity, but the clothes are perfectly dry after a minute of airing out. The high spin cycle of the direct drive washer also gets rid of a lot of the water so the heat pump dryer is helped quite a bit in shortening the drying time.
I have the excess water from the heat pump dryer drained out to the same pipe as the washer. There is a water reservoir housed in the dryer that would otherwise need to be emptied. The only thing I use the reservoir for is an occasional condenser clean. Getting lint buildup on the condenser is probably one of the worst things that could happen (as the machine would need to be taken apart to access that part to fully remove lint), so it's something to keep on top off. A condenser wash is also part of a regular cycle, and it's important to regularly clean out the nested lint traps. Both the washer and dryer provide maintenance reminders.
I have owned the Samsung version for about four months now, and I love it. I chose this model because the LG reviews were not good enough-the same problem for most people, so I figured that would also be my experience. I also chose Samsung because I find their customer service to be better than average. So far this is one of the best purchases I have made for efficiency and environmental impact. And bottom line- I can put it anywhere and plug it into a regular outlet?!?
We have the cheaper Bosch version of these and they are excellent. Was is important to know, that the dried clothes need another 5 or 10 minutes to air out after the machine decided they are done. Put them in a basket and wait a little. That's gets the last bit of moisture out of them. Also the actual drying time is much shorter than initially displayed. My drying program says 2:15 hours but it's always done after 40 minutes or so.
So your clothes come out slightly damp? Hard pass on bosch combo unit
@@SavageBits That's how this system works. Your clothes are not totally overheated like other dryers. I would think it's also a lot better for the clothes as well.
Does this REALLY get clogged dry?!!🤔🤔🤔
We built a really tight home -0.3 ACH/50, and I didn’t use a heat pump dryer at first. We started noticing a whistling sound every time we ran our dryer. I was putting our home under negative pressure every time we ran a load. Bought an LG heat pump set and problem is gone. Matt is correct on this!!!!
So now you will just die from stale air. I hope you have an erv or fresh air coming in.
@@psychic1999 we have an ERV that is separately ducted from the hvac ducting. Whole house dehumidifier as well. Plenty of fresh, filtered air and low low power bills.
Now do that for your stove hood, it's going to be the same. The truth is the initial costs of an all in one is significantly higher, it does less laundry per day than a pair of washer and dryer can do, and the operating cost don't offset it for several years. Also the heat pump units are prone to more repairs
Those are all true statements. That said, even doing the loads of laundry slower, they can keep up with most family's demands. I do worry about the repairs (as I do with my heat pump hybrid water heater), but I am hoping that the engineering of these things is good enough for the heat pumps to remain reliable.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up the more common failures are on things like the drum bearings, water pumps, and electronics. Heat pumps are, essentially, fairly simple devices and being sealed systems don't usually wear out as easily as some of that other stuff.
Anyone who buys that washer as low as it is hasn't done nor will do much laundry in their lives. Get that thing on a pedestal and set the dryer down on another. Taking a knee to do a load of laundry? No freakin way.
I love our Miele units. So efficient. Not sure what model you have, but we fit about 10-12 towels or a huge king size comforter in ours... Laundry machines should be run as full as possible, they are more effective at cleaning.
_"machines should be run as full as possible"_ -- yeah, I was really surprised when he viewed the machine as full with just those four towels. Obviously it depends on the size of the towel, but the space left in the machine when he pulled it back out, clearly there was enough room for at least one more towel, since with the front loader, you really do want it filled to the top.
Obviously there's a point where you've gone too far, i.e. it's so stuffed that the clothes don't move at all. But you'd have to work really hard to accomplish that. If the drum volume is "just filled" then as soon as the goods being washed get wet, they will move around just like they're supposed to.
To be clear, this is for front-loader machines. The top-loaders with the agitator don't handle full loads as well, and shouldn't be completely filled.
Yep. People who are used to top-loader washers really don’t understand how much a front-loader can take.
Bens Appliances recommends the Samsung as the best-engineered of the all-in-one heat pump units, might be something to look into.
Love ben's reviews
Samsung design is by far the best. Samsung unit can actually self clean the coils. Other units can't do this and will become a hot mess in 5 yrs. Only downside of Samsung unit is the pathetic 1 yr warranty. Buy from costco to get 2 yrs and then add the 3 yr extended warranty for $70. Getting a total 5 yr warranty was the piece of mind I needed to pull the trigger on this new tech. So far the Samsung unit is a dream. Cuts the work of laundry by 50%. Throw a load in before bed and wake up to clean and dry clothes in the morning
I do know the Whirlpool 7.4 cu. ft. Front Load Hybrid Heat Pump Dryer WHD862CHC. Does a horrible job with the secondary lint filter letting lint through and then the machine has a permanently fixed screen that you have to take the whole unit apart to get to the condenser to clean it. Doing 2 to 3 loads most days of the week ends up building a substantial amount of rent on the Primary condenser within 3 to 4 months within a year. The dryer had so much accumulation that had bypassed both the primary and secondary lint filters and the lint screen that I had to have service come out disassemble the unit to clean it as it couldn’t get air through the condenser And was venting air out the front of the unit…
It would also be interesting to see how much heat the units add to the home in the bowl the summer that has to be cool and in the winter that takes heat load away my laundry room gets pretty toasty in the summer.
Samsung is a nightmare to repair. The 2nd nightmare begins with dealing with their warranty department.
Samsung typically has really neat appliances that break very often and are a PITA to get warrantied. Is this one different?
Hey Matt, long time lurker of your channel here. I recently went with the LG combo ventless system. It's a new technology, and it's been a bumpy ride learning how to maintain it correctly (just like you said, lint control is SUPER important), but it has saved me $50-$75 on every power bill (2 mo. cycle) ever since.
Agree, however, the biggest issue I see, according to some videos/shorts I've run across is maintenance, or rather, folks not knowing they should clean out their dryer vents periodically, judging by how clogged some were when cleaned out after many years in many cases.
If I can afford to do so, I'd like to replace both the aging dryer (240V) and washer and go with one of these ventless combos instead.
The main issue is that you have to clean not just the lint filter every cycle, but you have to take it apart and clean off the internal condenser coils about every month (varies by brand and number of dryer loads you do). Some models even have an internal self-cleaning coil washing system, but they don't get it quite right yet.
I live in MN just installed this combo unit in an ADU. The tenant loves it. Thanks for the maintenance tip.
Michael
Love my GE all in one. I have modified the filter to make it work better! There are a number of videos with options, mostly adding more sealing around the edges.
This also makes one think about their carbon footprint in terms of where to live. When I left Connecticut to live in Las Vegas, a colleague flipped out about how wasteful it was "cooling the desert' and the casinos with the doors open ... I replied it is more expensive to heat than cold area. So I am back in CT and living in a 4400 square foot house in Vegas is cheaper to condition the air than a 2700 square foot house in CT. Thanks for the numbers, that is a huge savings - even if the numbers are off my 20% it is amazingly impressive.
I bought a ventless washer/dryer combo a few months ago and I love it. I could see the throughput being a problem for family that does a lot of laundry since you lose the ability to wash one load while drying another but it's been great for me.
I bought one several years ago for a one bedroom rental I own. I tell the tenants to not save up laundry for laundry day, but instead to start a load just before leaving for work; it runs when they are out, and they don’t notice the long cycle - I tell them not having to move the laundry from the washer to the dryer is sort of a bonus.
@@stevebabiak6997 not moving the laundry was one of the main selling point for me. I always do laundry on Sunday nights and I had a bad habit of falling asleep before I put my clothes in the dryer. lol
Apartments are small these days. So in that perspective you can understand this European size. I agree with you on the size issue. I have a 94 square meter apartment with a dedicated tiny laundry room which makes a big difference. I currently only have one washer and one dryer unit, but this elongated room despite a slanted ceiling can host 1 freezer, one hot water tank, 4 units 60 centimeter wide each. I can have 2 washers on the bottom and 2 dryers on the top. I even have room for legs that hoist these 2 towers that you can have storage drawer embedded in. Plus I have an Elfa drawer tower at the entrance to the room. Sliding door. Plus the same room has the main water in the back behind the machines. Plus the circuit system is embedded within the wall. Pretty amazing actually
I live in freezing cold Canada and my ventless dryer dumps the heat and humidity into my house, which is perfect because in winter we need a whole house humidifier.
@@akshonclipThat's not true. If that were the case it would be a perpetual motion machine. It is inefficient and any heat loss during operation will be left in the space it's operating in.
@@akshonclip it does. It’s not a heat pump dryer it’s a ventless dryer. It makes the laundry room very toasty and humid.
@ You obviously have no idea how heat pumps work. They scavenge existing heat energy out of the air. They don’t convert electricity to heat energy like resistive elements do.
@@skylerdylan1005 are you talking about a regular dryer that isn’t vented to the outside or a bonafide ’ventless’ dryer?
@@GMC-qo9xi an actual ventless dryer.
I’ve got that GE all in one. I’ve had it for just over a year. The one thing I will say is clean the filter! After each use. Dry more than the machine says. Get all the drips gone from the door area. To clean the filter I vacuum it. Then keep it out for awhile to allow the rest of the heat and moisture to escape. I love mine, it works well. But if you have dogs that you dry off with towels that get muddy carefully clean by washing those filters with Dawn and lots of water. Go ahead and hook up to your machine with your phone and the machine tells you what you need to do. After I washed those muddy towel’s and vacuumed the filter I got a notice from the company that I needed to wash the filters on my phone. The very fine mud particles had clogged the filter and I really couldn’t tell by looking at it. But as soon as I started washing it I could tell. I got a long attachment for the vacuum and a long brush that I use frequently. The more diligent you are with keeping the filter clean the longer the machine will last.
1:36 Matt I cannot believe your wife let you get away with that setup !
And good luck trying to sell the house.
Our Samsung washer takes 22-26 minutes to wash, and the gas dryer takes 42 minutes to dry. Yes, the dryer is vented. With 25 solar panels and two power walls, we pay only a few bucks for gas annually for washing and drying.
This was a very interesting video. I thought these all-in-one units were more of a Europe niche thing, but now I know differently. The comments on the video are also very educational if you're considering one of these units. I see there are some pros and cons. When telling my wife about this video she asked what happens when some of the items in the wash cycle need to be rack dried, while the rest need to go though the dryer cycle? I haven't figure that out yet.
There are options to turn the dryer off and only do a wash cycle. Then after pulling out the clothes that need to be rack dried you can select a dry only cycle for the rest. I've been using a smaller version of this (also by GE) for 3 years and it works wonderfully!
We end up doing a lot of loads back to back on a weekend day, combo unit will take a lot longer. Combo unit, every wash/dry cycle has to run complete before starting another load, separate units - after the first wash you are washing and drying at the same time until the last dry. It's also really expensive.
@@davidmorrow4195 we had to adapt our washing schedule to make it work. With a standard washer I would inevitably forget to move a load and have to rewash it taking even more time. That problem is completely taken care of with an all-in-one. I can start a load and leave for work and it's dry when I get home! Doing smaller loads every day instead of a washing marathon on the weekend honestly frees up a ton of time on the weekend and then isn't derailed by weekend plans that leave you away from home.
A technician servicing my washing machine once advised me not to put more than 2-3 towels in a single load. He recommended putting other clothes in with towels. Towels absorb a ton of water, and that makes them heavy during a spin cycle, which is hard on parts (springs and glides).
Another way to use a regular dryer and minimize impact on indoor air volume is to use a ducted intake from the outside directly to the back of the dryer. There’s a grill or air intake slots on the back of the dryer. The intake duct can be routed up like a snorkel for access and insulated.
This won't work if you live somewhere that gets cold - most dryer manuals say that they don't work well below a certain temperature
@@Ariccio123 I used one in NH which got very cold in the winter. Worked fine.
@@Ariccio123are you commenting on the dryer or the comment above? The dryer will be working at the temperature in your house…
I suspect many people watching this video would like to learn more about ducted intake to a dryer. Can you tell us more? Linos? Other people who have done this?
On the back of the dryer are air intake slots. Make a sheet metal box large enough to enclose it with tabs on the contact side to allow screws to attach it. One side of the box needs a hole with a neck on it sized to accept the duct: could be round or rectangular, but I used 6” round. A hvac shop can make the box if needed. I extended it up high enough access the pipe. The hole to the outside will need a backdraft damper to keep outside air from blowing in. If the dryer is below an attic space that’s even better, but run the duct to the soffit instead of sucking air from the attic. Be sure to insulate the duct in the laundry area to keep it from sweating. You could also make the duct out of insulating duct board. Hope this helps.
I have that GE washer and it's great. Drying is way easier on clothes so they come out nice and probably last longer but you really need to leave the main door and lint screen ajar so it can to dry out. There's enough of water and lint trapped in there after drying that leaving it closed up for a week can grow mold. Use your inspection scope to see what I mean. They need to redesign that with easier access to clean that whole area out. Maybe a dust separator too. Also gotta be careful vacuuming in there - jamming a hose in will easily mash over the exchanger fins.
Hi Matt. Could you run full loads on each and measure the real world electricity consumption for both setups in Kwh? Thanks again! This will be a great addition to my upcoming build.
We went with 2 of the Samsung combo Heat pump units. I selected those for the coil washing feature. So far I love them
I found that solar drying with a clothesline in South Texas dries clothes pretty quickly. And if your lifestyle demands just that one clothing item in the next 20 minutes, then maybe change your priorities. Hanging clothes to dry is relaxing and relieves stress. When you have a decent sized back porch you can solar dry when its raining - unless it continues to rain all day.
Stop making so much sense.
My gran used to hang out her laundry. I loved sleeping in fresh sheets dried out on a line. The best.
I do way too much laundry to play around with hanging. It's not at all 'relaxing' when you have 3-4 loads per week (at least) and still have other chores and family/work commitments. Are you retired?
This! @@TheJohn8765
Your right my wife and I have be married going on 36 years and we’ve been hanging clothes out side the whole time spring summer and fall even on not so cold winter days, only problem ever now and then birds with shit all over them and back to the washer they go 😅
I just bought an LG All In One; I love the thing, works awesome for me. LG WM6998HBA; I don't miss seeing my electric meter take flight when the dryer is running.
I'm glad my washer and dryer is in the unconditioned garage after watching this! A small inconvenience saves me several hundred dollars in conditioned air per year! The math sounds about right.
It still eats about 4-6 kW instead of about 1kW of electricity. Having it in the garage only saves in the HVAC and heating part.
@beyondEV True. I'm a single guy so 1 large wash a week doesn't cost much.
In the winter when its cold outside I time my dryer use for the warmest part of the day. Since I dont need to do laundry every day, i also pick the warmest day of the week. In the summer I turn the dryer on in the evening or early morning before temperature rises. Also if your drier is in the basement and its not conditioned space, cracking open a window by the drier will help.
Great video. some to add. As an hvacr tech, I can say this equipment is going to give our trade more work. Cool equipment but for majority of people it won’t last 5 years. If you have an isolated laundry room with a door, and don’t need your laundry room as warm as the rest of the house, you can bring in make up air to compensate that loss some what, and Add a heat exchanger to the exhaust and help preheat the intake air. Or Do what they do in other parts of the world and run it into a bucket of water, ( unless it’s gas). no heat loss, no cleaning the dryer pipe. Heat pumps are great, but Remember, they rate efficiency by how much it cost to run new, and clean coils, not how often it needs maintained or fixed.
I would suggest including the costs of the units into the calculation. Assuming the GE is more expensive, how long to recover the cost difference?
Thanks, your site is top notch!
The issue with these all in one units, comes down to being your only laundry source; Especially if you have a larger family or a consistent need for multiple back to back loads. Sure it can take a little less time as a whole for a single load, but you aren't able to start a second load when the initial wash cycle is over while the other is drying. So in reality, you aren't saving time if you're changing from a standard US spec high capacity set, you're actually costing yourself another hour because now that second load is going to take 2 hours to do too. If you have another set than you're fine, but most aren't going to have two sets of laundry appliances.
My partner and I do our laundry separately. He's an emt, so his stuff needs washed separately. I work from home, so generally I'll run my laundry, and do bedding which itself is 2 loads with a split king and 2 quilts, and towels/rags during quick breaks from work. That's just for two of us, and not even separating out my cloths by cotton/tech fabric light/dark. On top of his clothes, he has bedding from work. So my 4 loads would take at least 8 hours in one of these instead of 5 with separate machines.
It takes almost twice as long but it uses about 1/4 the energy. As long as your load is done by the time he needs to use it, you could make it work with your schedules. It's not like towels and bedding need to be done every day.
4 loads per week for 1 person? I do 1.25 loads for my clothing and bedding each week. Maybe try wearing your non base layers for more than one day. I'm pretty greasey and can wear my flannel shirts for at least 2 days usually 3 before washing. Bath towels can be used at least 3 or 4 times before washing, even as many as 6. If you are not sleeping naked bedding only needs to be washed once a month(i sometimes go 6 weeks, its just not that dirty). The pillow case is weekly though. If the clothes don't touch your skin they don't really need to be washed much. Maybe my tolerance for dirt is abnormally high, idk.
Thanks Matt for the video on your experience with the all-in-one systems. I have been considering the vent-less dryers for a while now but this looks like a game changer. I see that several manufacturers are now offering these systems.
Mieles are deceptive. They're smaller than American machines physically, but if you check the load amounts, they're similar to regular U.S. market machines. You can really stuff them full and still get clean clothes.
I’ve always felt like I wasn’t supposed to stuff it full. Maybe I’m wrong on that.
You can always stuff front loaded washers because of how it moves clothes and water using gravity. You just can’t stuff dryers since you need air space to efficiently dry.
@buildshow Yeah I was wondering why you weren't using the cubic foot rating when talking about appliances.
I checked out on the numbers because you just ad.ited to quoting a chat gpt. Haven't had even a 50% success rate on those getting even basics right, I doubt those numbers are accurate in more than one basic field.
@@buildshow When in doubt (RTFM) check your manual. There is a weight recommendation on it. But in my experience, yes, stuff it full. If you check in like 10min later in the cycle, you can see how much space is still left in your washing machine. The laundry really shirks together, when it's wet.
I had a front load washer (big brand) develop a door gasket leak (horribly expensive to replace) and a 15 year old obsolete dryer with noisy bearings. As my washer was one of those "green machines" that did a crappy job of actually cleaning ----- I was happy to have an excuse to check the current market.
I was surprised to find these combo ventless (currently available) all rated fairly high on the cleaning!
I purchased the one with the highest **CLEAN** rating-- a Samsung model at the time.
I bought it for just under twice the cost to repair the existing machine. The first issue I had was with the delivery ---- I paid for install and haul-off of both the old machines. The delivery guys tried to do a driveway drop. I had a hard copy of the order to show them. They weren't really happy, but they did do the full service install/ haul-off.
The second issue I had was the (lack of) directions that came with it --(Where da heck do I put the detergent?). It is actually all here on TH-cam!
😊
This is why my dryer is in the garage, and in the summer my dryer is a line in the back yard.
mine is in the garage too. A non-vent is going generate heat that must be removed in Summer.
I lived in a house in Abu Dhabi with a non-vent. I hated it. Always had to empty the water tank.
Same here. Although I've not used the electric dryer in over 10 years now and just use the line (video on my channel: Solar Clothes Dryer). I also power the clothes washer on solar power, aside from the gas fired tankless water heater.
Clothes pins are my area of experience. Ikea reds sold prior to 2010 have withstood 2 decades of continuous outdoor use and I leave them on the lines year round. Italian made Cosatto pins are my current favorites. Heavy wood pins are OK, but if they get wet then they can leave tannin stains where they pinch. Wet wood doesn't last. Most domestic plastic pins will not last a year. After line drying, finish in the cloths drier on low or no heat tumble. This softens the fabrics and removes any remaining wrinkles. No ironing needed after that.
I have three kids as well and my advice to any family is to pick up a Maytag commercial model because it’s been the most reliable laundry machine that I’ve had. I get that it’s low efficiency, but when your laundry machine is down you’re going to spend a lot of money and time driving to and from the laundromat to get your laundry done.
You need to add the additional cost in the warm months to cool the house and subtract in the winter the lower cost of heating. We had a ventless dryer and it added to much heat to the house. Took it out and hang the clothes to dry. Clothes dry faster on a line than in the condensation dryer most of the year.
Yes. Focusing on makeup air is leaving out other individually important factors. Some people appreciate air exchange in a home. It is healthy.
For sure line drying uses so much less energy. Back in the day, i lived in a cold climate and would hang dry in the winter too. Was kinda weird seeing the frozen cloths get dryer and dryer.
With the current crop of combo units you really don't need to worry about this at all. They use around 1.5 to 2kwh total for a conventional wash/dry cycle. Even if 100% of that was waste heat (it's not, a lot of the heat goes out with the drain water) it would only represent 7000btu of additional cooling - practically nothing. If your AC is running well that's like half a kwh of cooling per load, which even in the most expensive areas is practically negligible.
It depends on the technology. The GE unit here is, I believe, a heat pump dryer. It does not add any heat to the house at all. The heat pump has a hot side and a cool side (like all heat pumps), pulling heat from the cool side to heat the hot side. Air circulates past the hot side first, heating it, then goes into the dryer drum to dry the clothes, then exits past the cool side where the air is cooled back down. Cooling the air condenses the water vapor so it can be drained.
Worst case scenario, the net change in temperature of the room air is nil because any heat the dryer put into the room air, it took out later. I don't know how all the different heat pump dryers are designed, but it's entirely possible (likely even) that there are designs that use a completely closed loop, so that the dryer doesn't exchange any air with the room at all.
There are other "condensing" dryers that do though. They use hot air to dry the clothes, but the heat for the air is produced conventionally (resistive heating element) and then the moist air from the clothes is cooled using the room air to condense the vapor to extract it from the air. That type of dryer does add heat to the house. Given your experience, I think it highly likely that's the kind of ventless dryer you were using.
Just got my Samsung and love it. Very cool it washes the coils every dry cycle
I know it would add another penetration, but wouldn't having an inlet and an outlet for dryers in a super-efficient home like that make sense? Is there a market for a dedicated Inlet ?
Intake directly to the dryer? Maybe if the climate is very moderate for much of the year. Downsides:
- If the air is cold it still has to warm up, so the calculations still apply.
- If it is a hot humid summer location, I think it would also result in inefficiencies on that end as well by requiring higher dryer temperatures to get the same performance.
I've had my GE Combo Washer/Dryer for over a year and I love it. Turned by roof dryer vent into a vent for the attic.
Aparentley the US DOE has developed a ultrasonic dryer which will basically “shake out” all the moisture and cut energy and drying times significantly.
My old house i had a frigidaire that moved 150cfm (verified with a vanometer) i found setting the spin cycle to extra long high speed wicked out enough moisture i only had to run the dryer for 30 min on low, so i removed about 50% of my air but i had a fresh air intake into my continuously running furnace so basically the furnace was supplying the air, i also undersized the furnace so it ran a lot longer and basically ended up heating the structure like radiant heat so heat loss was minimal.
Now i live in a baseboard house so i put a passive 4” intake by the dryer so air isn’t being pulled out of the living structure and being supplied from outside primarily which has helped comfort
I bought a Maytag commercial washer that can handle a hell of a lot more than three or four towels per load...and I have a rotary clothes dryer on my back deck, so I don't even use the dryer that came with the house.
Love the crispness and smell of line-dried clothes in the fresh air and sunshine and save a ton of money on my electric bill while not having to do endless loads of laundry...and my clothes and linens seem to last longer by not putting them through a hot dryer. Hanging clothes on the line is also good exercise.
This the only way to save money and the life of the dryer
I 90% air dry my clothes with a fan inside the house and use the dryer for 10 minutes to fluff them. Too much pollen and summer humidity here for line drying--they'd still dry, but I'd wilt.
My GE clogged up after a year, had to pull it apart and clean the heat pump fins. I clean the lint trap every load
That is why I sent mine back. I saw that coming.
@@TheWagLife it's a master bath add, didn't wanna cut holes
Says right in the owners manual to clean the fins regularly. Even vented units need cleaned more than just the main filter.
I was amazed at the lint in my dryer after getting an attachment for my vacuum despite always clearing the filter for my non heat pump dryer.
@@bluntmuffin1729 i have the brush, still had to pull apart. Maybe I need to use the brush more
I have the GE all in one heat pump unit and love it
We got the Samsung equivalent a couple of months ago. We love it, clothes come out clean and dry and the cycle times aren't too bad.
The Samsung unit actually washes the coils every cycle, so far I haven't had to do anything to clean it out.
Super fast tip number 2 take the one-way flap out of your useless exhaust fan in your dryer space. If you can then leave that door shut to the dryer space. What this will do is when your dryer does run it's going to suck that air from the outside heat it push it through your dryer and send it back outside so you're not wasting your condition there inside your living space.
This tip and the other one I left are simple basically free tips that will save you some money
I am curious to see how these machines hold up 5-10 years from now.
Yes! I like the idea of them and would love to not throw conditioned air outside anymore, but my current natural gas dryer was made 30 years ago and can finish a load of jeans in under 30 minutes. So that's going to be my standard for reliability and performance.
My Siemans (UK) heat pump condensing dryer lasted 12 years. What killed it was a faulty condensed water level sensor, and the cost of repair vs buying a new one with 5 year warranty wasn't that different. So now have a Bosch - which unfortunately is horrendously complicated and uses awful touch controls.
We’re finishing our build now (pre-Sheetrock ACH 50 of .65) so had to figure this out. Family of 7. We’ve been using/testing the LG combo unit heat pump (6998HBA) for 8 months and 502 cycles and with great success. We’ll have 3 in the new place. We believe it’s the future. I was so happy not having to design and add a make-up air system.
You have a heat pump so your HVAC system should be a lot better than a COP of 0.9.
I have an LG all in one unit, and it's great. Going strong after like 3 ish years now and never want to go back. I feel like you always are trying new tools in clever new ways, and that is the part that I enjoy most about your channel. This video I think shows that on several levels, both that you thought of a under-discussed part about dryers and their air exchange needs, and also that you persisted and found a solution to your question by using a new tool (ChatGPT) in new ways. Keep up the creative work!
Except that several commenters have pointed out how inaccurate ChatGPT is for this (and many other) type of calculation and that Matt’s starting assumptions are likely faulty as well. That said, I’m here watching his channel because he covers a wide range of topics and gives me things to think about and investigate further 😊.
@@MichaelJ674 While it is true that ChatGPT can often be wrong, it is really about how you use it. It is merely a tool. If you use a hammer to try to put a screw into wood, you likely will have issues and people will call you crazy. If you use a screwdriver, you will get great results. In this case in the absence of people helping figure out this issue, I think that it was actually a clever way to get a sort of solution. Matt knows enough about how air infiltration and HVAC works to sanity check the math and process that ChatGPT is doing, and sometimes all you need is a starting direction. ChatGPT can be a great way to get that idea and methodology if you are already familiar with the subject matter.
If you want to understand actually how GPTs work and why they are good at some things and not at others, I highly recommend watching the video called "Let's build GPT: from scratch, in code, spelled out." by Andrej Karpathy. He is a key AI researcher and also a great teacher. After watching that, the weirdnesses that ChatGPT has made a lot more sense to me.
While it is true that ChatGPT can often be wrong, it is really about how you use it. It is merely a tool. If you use a hammer to try to put a screw into wood, you likely will have issues. If you use a screwdriver, you will get great results. In this case in the absence of people helping figure out this issue, I think that it was actually a clever way to get a sort of solution. Matt knows enough about how air infiltration and HVAC works to sanity check the math and process that ChatGPT is doing.
This video was super informative for me. We just bought the same unit but haven't installed it yet. The wife wanted it for the remodel and I had no idea how well these units would work. Perfectly timed video for me and answered all my doubts. Good job .
the biggest Issue I had was when I was overloading the machine. check the owners manual and go by weight vs visually thinking you have more space. really this is only an issue when doing a large load of bath towels.
I like the point about the door staying dry after the dryer cycle is finished vs separate units requiring the washer door to remain open afterwards. I've had the Miele setup for almost 3 years now and while I generally like it, had the GE unit been available then I would have chosen it instead. We always have to time laundry loads around when we will be available to switch from washer to dryer and being able to skip that would add a lot of flexibility.
Wait for version 2.0. Let them work out the bugs. Second, one load take 3 1/2 - 4 hrs. Which means you can't start the 2nd load for 3 1/2 - 4 hrs.
Except you can run a load as you go to work because you don't need to move from washer to drier, start another load when going to bed...
@@Bart79256 and if you have two of them the efficiencies increase further.
This is version 20, this is standard text for over a decade in all the countries with smaller living spaces.
Mine take 2.5 hours. Not as quick as separate units but I don't have to transfer so it is a win for me.
Most loads never take more that 1.5-2hrs. Only things which take a long time are thick pile rugs.
Not sure if anyone already mentioned it but your fire risk goes way down also. I have this same model and in 18 months no issue. I do the same cleaning Matt mentioned here with the same tools. GE also has a good warranty on this machine and if the heat pump has an issue the entire heat pump components can be replaced as a single unit (at I assume a not super cheap price though).
Glad to hear you’re happy with your unit! Good point about the reduced fire hazard!
Great research Matt! Suggestion for a similar topic video. How much energy and money do bathrooms fans waste compared to exhausting via an ERV
Matt, there is a simple solution for the standard dryer. Build it into an insulated “closet” on an outside wall, with TWO outside air vents, and a weatherstripped insulated exterior door instead of the usual hollow core door. One vent lets outside air into the closet, which the dryer inhales as ambient air. The other connects to the conventional exhaust port on the dryer, blowing the moist hot exhaust air outside. The dryer could be gas or electric, since the air exhausts to the outside. Not the same efficiency as a heat pump dehydrating type dryer, but at least no inside conditioned air would be lost, and noise would be contained within the “closet”. You didn’t mention the price of the GE unit; bet it isn’t cheap.
Well, 3 things. 1. Cost is more than a conventional washer and dryer? 2. Complexity is much higher, so reliability I would expect to be lower and repair costs higher. 3. You can practically see thorough my house, so the energy savings I imagine is lower than in your house?
Most repair techs I know say run from these all-in-one units.
You don’t need an all in one to get a heat pump dryer.
Any thoughts on the need to heat the space that the dryer is taking heat from to dry the clothes? I have my dryer in an already cool basement near a heat pump water heater. While it cuts down on the humidity for sure, it is notably cooler in the space compared to my old gas powererd water heater.
My hack in cold weather for a standard electric dryer is to vent inside. Keeps the heat and humidity inside when both are needed in the winter.
But you're pumping every ounce of moisture inside your house and it's condensing in your walls and growing black mold. 🦠⚫
@@PatrickKQ4HBD I keep mold eating spiders which take care of this
Underrated comment. @@sawdustcrypto3987
@@PatrickKQ4HBD Not necessarily. If you're laundry is an open basement, which many in northern us climates are... it has plenty of space to disperse that heat and humidity. My laundry is on my main floor and our dryer vent drops into an unfinished but still enclosed area of the basement (storage room) between the joists. Would I do a vent into that room? No. Those who can do this are likely to already be in older homes that aren't sealed tight or insulated like newer homes and finished basements are.
@@PatrickKQ4HBD Most older homes (in the Northeast at least) have the problem of getting too dry in winter. Way, way too dry.
I have a large whirlpool ventless. It's been great. It's been running strong for nearly 3 years.
When we lived in Europe, one of the top things my wife looked forward to upon our return to America was the ability to ditch the pain-in-the-butt condensing dryer and go back to using a real American vented dryer.
So that's what we did.
No looking back.
I think you’ll find that this GE unit combines the both worlds! Extremely large… American sized. Yet extremely efficient.
@@buildshow Well, I'll take a look next time I'm in a Home Depot and passing the appliance section. It might be another 5 years before the prices on these things come down to average-joe levels, but heck, the future is a long game, after all.
The thing in Europe is that low-cost washers and dryers are intentionally designed to waste time: 3 hours per load to wash, 5 hours per load to dry. And you usually have to run the dryer twice, because the clothes come out wet. This is where the reputation comes from.
I’m sure Miele are much better, but cost 5x the basic models.
@@markmuir7338
No sure where you got that information...
Most washing machines take about 1 or 1,5 hours to wash and most dryers between 2 and 3 hours (drying times can be a lot shorter depending on the load)
I've used a variety of cheap and expensive machines and have never encountered intentional time wasting.
You could have had a soaking option turned on, which is designed to let the clothes soak for about an hour or two.
My current washing machine is about 15-20 years old and washes in a little over an hour
This is amazing for people who "hate A.I.". I see that the GE sticker assumes 6 loads per week for the $19. A person must factor in their personal use habits for sure. For us we would be about 2 loads or so per week, but worth keeping in mind for the future. How much heat is the unit creating? Does it get really hot in your laundry room, or is the cool side of the heat pump offsetting the heat side?
Fact! Heat pump dryers, all of them break down 50+ percent faster than traditional gas dryer. Source - I owned Samsung and GE newest models. Yet my 14 year old Maytag runs like if it was 1 day old. WE NEED RELIABLE DRYERS!
But that old Maytag also sent thousands of dollars worth of conditioned/heated air out of the house!
1 observation source 👍
Science does take a sample size of 1 and turn it into “Fact!”
This is exactly the thought I had when we were looking at putting a washer/dryer combo in our 5th wheel RV. I am constantly reminding my (ahem) "life partner" that anytime she uses the exhaust fans in the bathroom or kitchen that the air leaving the house has to be "made up", usually through leaks in our home's envelope, and that this air must then be heated or cooled again. Anyway, we're really giving the LG and GE units a hard look to see if they're going to meet our needs. I believe the future of drying is ventless.
One thing ( maybe small ) that might be overlooked here is how much heat the vent less units are putting into the house. The heat pump is dumping the energy it takes to condense the water on the evaporating coil and putting into the room. A bonus in winter - but - an extra load in the summer. I wonder if some people that are having poor performance with these heat pump units are not letting them breathe as they need to ( small closed room, etc)
No the heat pump is condensing the water from the clothes and pumping that water down the drain. The moisture doesnt go into the room.
These will do better in conditioned areas that can breathe. Reviews of people who put them in unconditioned garages for them to not work well in the summer because there's nowhere to dump the heat and humidity. So figure, essentially a closet that people will close the door to for noise reduction these definitely won't work well.
I assume like a dehumidifier that warm dry air get release. So agree good in winter but not summer. Ventless could be vented outside too I guess in summer… with a make up air system preferably.
_" The heat pump is dumping the energy it takes to condense the water on the evaporating coil and putting into the room"_ -- no, it's not.
There are more basic "condensing" dryers, which use the room air to cool the heated air coming from the dryer. The heated air is heated conventionally, with a heating element. So yes, these types of driers add heat to the room.
But the heat pump dryers are effectively a closed cycle. Heat is pulled from the air to condense the water out of it, and that's the heat that's put back into the air to dry the clothes. The heat pump is used to create a temperature differential that can handle both ends of the drying cycle, i.e. evaporating moisture and then condensing it again later.
@@717dash_cam _"there's nowhere to dump the heat and humidity"_ -- there's no heat or humidity to dump. The moisture is condensed and drained out the same drain the washer uses. The dryer doesn't _generate_ any heat at all, it just uses a heat pump to move heat from one place to another, creating a temperature differential that is used to first dry the clothes (the hot side) and then condense the moisture out from the air (the cold side).
One thing to note about the energy star guide. I believe that figure is only for the energy used in washing. You should look at the Canadian one for a more accurate energy usage including the drying.
$2550 plus tax for a new unit. In 9 years you will break even on energy cost at $300 per year savings. Wait your unit will need replaced way before that.
Heat pumps last longer than that. You're also not including the operating costs of the two - which actually proves the heat pump is cheaper..
2024 black Friday at Home Depot had these under $1700. 30% tax credit for heat pump and effective cost is 1190. Sell your old washer dryer online for $100, cost is $1090. Assuming you actually pay $0.1/kwhr ( not many places are that cheap in US with taxes and fees), break even according to Chatgpt would be
I solved the problem on heavy current carrying appliance ran copper wire to device and torqued screws. Second placed a clothes line on the house. Third dedicated a room to dry clothes in on dryer racks. No more shrinkage of clothes! 10% more life on socks.
I’d have to run those units non stop, all week long to keep up with my family’s laundry….
Can't thank Matt enough for this video. I try to talk all my clients to go condensing and it's like pulling teeth.
A condensing dryer isn't the same as a heat pump. It will heat up the room.
The future of washers and dryers >>>>>> old fashioned top load washers and front load gas dryers. My 35 year-old Sears Kenmore washer and dryer are still working just fine with a couple igniter replacements on the dryer and no repairs on the washer. When we moved about 10 years ago I planned to buy new machines for new house. BUT, the reviews on the front load washers were often poor and the wash time sucked. And, the stores only one or two top load washers and they were bottom end cheap junk.
So, we kept the old machines. The washer does a large load in about 25 to 30 minutes. On the middle temp the dryer does that load in about 45 to 50 minutes. If I put it on the high temp, it will do it in 25 minutes. I don't get the supposedly "high efficiency" machines that have to run twice as long to do the job.
And the front loaders don't use enough water to really get the clothes clean. The Old tubs did great!
The efficiency of the new ones is in energy and water, but in return they take a longer time. They aren't meant to be time-efficient.
If your electricity costs as much as we pay in California, then we use gas. A friend in CA got rid of his heat pump water heater and is saving over $200 to $300 a month on his utility bill and only 2 people.