ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
Para -lab 20 .Glorious transmission line vintage speakers 1975
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มี.ค. 2024
- Here I review little known Paralab 20 vintage speakers
which surprise me with their bass dexterity.
if I went to a desert island I would take these over the ls35a s btw .
patreon.com/StereoreviewX
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.3 (2/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vLS9roCy_xY/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi Kelvin, these were made by LNB. There's a fantastic thread on vintage radio forum where the company owner answered some questions a few years ago. Early versions had inductors that were hand wound by his wife in their home workshop!
Love it
A Sunday afternoon treat from Stereo Review X! We love insight which is not commercially motivated. Thank you K.
It's a great channel and deserves to grow. One of my absolute favourites.
Well designed transmission lines are wonderful. Those B 200 drivers were really good, too.
And i agree that the real rubber surrounds are the most desirable. Foam surrounds on any speaker are problem as they so often deteriorate even in the best conditions.
I just got back from the Audio Show at Whittlebury Hall near Silverstone. KEF had a demo system that put me in a trance. I kept coming back for more, it was the best hifi I ever heard. Shame it cost 350 grand.
Yes, that is a shame I’ll get anxious over £350 😅
Hi Kelvin! Mikael from Stockholm here. Have you heard the speakers from Sonab? Sonab was basically a loud speaker company from our swedish sound guru Stig Carlsson. So he let produce amplifier for his speakers. It would be interesting to hear your view on the Sonab speakers. I can recommend the Sonab Oa 11. As the only speaker you really need. Or the earlier Oa 5 type 2. Which was sold together with Sonab R 4000. The speakers are typical socialdemocratic. Ortho-acoustical. Everybody should have the same possibility. No sweat-spot! So the state went into business. And it became to big for its own good. But thats another story. Greetings Mikael
Okay, thanks for that. I’ve Gotta do some proper research now I do like the look at the sonab Turntable from the 70s looks very well built
Hi Kelvin. Nothing works as well as a transmission line to extort that ultra low bass from a speaker. IMF and TDL built some beauties back in the 80s, as do PMC nowadays. The TDL Reference with their 2 x 10 inch "race.track" bass drivers per speaker, dropped that low end down to below 20Hz: these things made their presence known and were infamous for their reproduction of pipe organ music at realistic sonic levels. Those lucky few that bought them tended to keep them because they don't often come up for sale. One of my all time favourite loudspeakers.
Great channel and superb content as usual, Kelvin. Keep up the good work.
Yes, I still remember hearing IMF transmission lines long time ago, it was highly memorable.
Thanks for the info
I've never heard of Para/Lab speakers before. Transmission line speakers using Kef drivers and tweeters always sounded great with the right amplifier. Interesting video.
Such as......TDL, IMF old Cambridge with B139 woofers
The B1 three Nine is a bass driver. You could really feel.
🤗 THANKS KELVIN,FOR SHARING YOUR AUDIOPHILE JOURNEY , showing how important equipment matching is…and I LOVE ❤️ YOUR lava lamps,still working 😁😎💚💚💚
Thanks for watching!
WELCOME 🤗
Synergy between components is vital. pair a brash sounding CD player with a lightweight sounding amp and harsh speakers and you'll get something totally unlistenable. The same is true of laid back kit, it'll sound dull and lifeless. It's all about balance and compliments, which is why listening before you buy, especially if you can get a home demo of the equipment, is vital.
Thanks Kelvin.
Hi kelvin its remind me my KEF c45 its almost the same element
Tnx for this video and have a nice day !!
Hi calvin really love your channel and years of experience , im American and just love British audio thanks cheers !!!
Glad you enjoy it!
Looks like you could make this into a DIY project. Find the drivers and the crossover values and you can build a box and recreate it.
Yes I could do even with my Carpet skills seriously, I think the thin walls may be part of the sound
LNB Para labs... nice! Legendary and rare speakers in a quasi transmission line cabinet. I never actually heard a pair as they never made their way across the Atlantic but I read about them quite a bit in HIFI Answers mag who gave them a hearty endorsement back in the mid to late70s.
Things jump out of the bushes at me all the time... And I do indeed go "Whoa... O.o"
I’ve been a fan of simple crossovers In loudspeakers for a long time. Those designs tend to be more efficient and can be played with lower powered amplifiers.
The downside is, in my opinion, that the sound can’t be controlled by the speaker designer. As you say here, these kinds of speakers are particular about amplification matches.
Nice review.
Yes , a transmission line done proper is a great sound, had a pair of IMF’s 50 back in the 70’s matched with a moded Phase Linnar 400,
Sundays are better recently ;-)
Kelvin, great review as always. No one does it better! Apart from your vast knowledge and experience you have such a great way of presentation. Look forward to the next one.
I appreciate that!
I've got a fully restored Quad 303 amp from this same period and it sounds great no matter what speaker you hook up to it ...
All those KEF drivers from the mid 70's were quite suitable for any kind of loading .. from sealed vented horn or TL ... they were amazing
The 303 is amp you can just forget about and enjoy
These speakers looks like a very similar design to the legendary Spendor BC1which also had a bextrene bass drivers minus the transmission line. Back in the day, BC1 were selling for around £600 which was a lot of money back in the day. The BC1 was well known for its mid range accuracy. I believe some of the engineers who designed parts of the BC1 also worked on various bits of the legendary LS3/5a.
At that time you needed several engineers with a degree to design a speaker. In fact, they cost a lot of money at that time, and that's why I also dedicated myself to DIY. Today you have good sound for a room for less than 300.00/pair. I couldn't buy a KEF or JBL as a student. I still had to spend on the amplifier and turntable. There were already plenty of radios at home. So I opted for the Philips drivers bought separately from the electronics store in the 70s. Later I exchanged them for the Beyma brand, from the 80s, which would cost half the price if you bought them in Spain, without taxes or customs.😀🩷🎶
Yes I have BC ones they are probably technically superior definitely in the upper ranges, but you can’t beat the dexterity of this transmission line, even though the spenders probably have let’s say bigger base
Now watch the prices go up. 😂 always interesting. Thanks very much!
Love your videos Kelvin. Very down to earth and super friendly and informative. Always a relaxed presentation.
thankyou kelvin great review stereo review x is a great vintage hi-fi channel keep up the good work😁
Thanks, will do!
Hi Kelvin, very interesting review of speakers i knew nothing about. I am always happy watching your channel its entertaining and i feel seems very honest. Keep these coming please.
Cool, thanks
Great review Kelvin! It always amazes me how good some of the speakers from that period are, made by tiny cottage industry British businesses, using quite ordinary off the shelf parts. These days it is much easier to design bespoke drivers for specific designs, model complex crossovers, and yet still so many modern speakers just aren't as satisfying to listen to.
Yes, I know, I just seriously don’t understand what goes on
One answer is they care do it on computers, no one listens to them and people buy them anyway 😂
I put a great set of speakers in the closet for at least 8 years, because I thought they were crap. It turned out that the speakers sounded amazing on amps that could handle the difficult 3 ohm dips in the bass. I had crappy receivers and low powered amps when I tried the speakers and it was the weak amps that got distorted and muddy, not the speakers.
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Kelvin, Welcome, You’re back and I am so pleased to hear your reviews. God bless you.
It would seem that transmission line loudspeakers are coming back to fashion. The technology is quite simple to understand but rather difficult to produce. I own a vintage pair of a really unknown French brand and the soundstage is just unbelievable. Bass extension is outstanding with such a small bass speaker. Super review. Thanks
The B200 series Bextrene woofers/midrange are sublime and come very close to the natural sound of paper. Paper imho is the best for reproducing acoustical music and voices. Combined with a first-order X-over will get u a speaker with a very open and phase/time correct sound (when done right;-). The simpler the X-over, the better the sound. Less is More is still the mantra.
B200's do have a lovely sound, and that crossover uses a very highly regarded Mullard mustard capacitor which probably helps.
Ah ha
The best part is no Part ….. plato I think
Mr K aka hi-fi Yoda is the man .. Always a pleasure to watch never a chore… Is it worth a mention on impedance compatibility of amp to speakers Mr K !?#
❤
Yes, I was thinking that !!
Well done, again! Love vintage hifi reviews!
I picked up some transmission-line speaker recently that were home-built back in the late 70s or early 80s - equipped with old-school, USA made Realistic (when they were serious about home hifi) full-range drivers. Set up for near-field listening on my computer desk they are some of the most revealing speakers I've heard, and the sound-stage is almost surround sound in width, but with voices perfectly placed. Not huge bass, but quick and punchy, and a midrange so realistic I sometimes think the sound is something happening elsewhere around me rather than coming from the speaker. It helps that they look like classic LS 3/5s 😉
Best Hifi review channel on TH-cam
thank you Kevin for bringing up another one blast from the past 🙂
Hi Kelvin, always look out for your videos. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, experience and passion for all things hifi. Long may your channel continue.
Thanks for that
Hi Kelvin, I own a pair, I love them, they were voiced by a musician apparently, but everything you describe is true, they are a beautiful sounding, full bodied musical speaker!… I was lucky enough to pick mine up for just £10 a year or two ago. I’ve run them nicely with a 1981 Pioneer SA520 integrated (very nice little combo and only £50 used). Also had an Adcom 555MK11 hooked up and that also sounded great. Can’t believe you’ve had them tucked away and not been using them, they are one of the loveliest sounding speakers around! For comparison I also own ATCSCM12 (original passives) and Spendor Preludes and I will say I won’t be getting rid of any of them, but the LNB has such a pleasing and natural tone in the mids and bass that I will never part with them. When you listen to a TV through them, you get all the studio ambience and you can hear different microphones etc so clearly, they are simply sublime!
Great Info, thanks a lot. I thought I was doing well with £70. 😃
I think I would even enjoy Kelvin doing a review of a microwave!
Microwave review X Coming soon
Another great video, enjoy the way you describe the sound, it's helping me understand more about what I'm hearing in my system
Cool, thanks!
I think we would call these hidden gems 💎 Kelvin 👍🏻
For sure
I thought my Epos ES11 speakers were the weak part in my system. But when I bought a Copland CTA 405 tube amp they changed dramatically for the better. These speakers are no joke and I got the original stands on superspikes.
I got ES14's.They can be mind blowing!
Epos used minimal to no crossovers so the amplifier characteristics are really going to shine through.
@@peterlarkin762 I think all the speakers should be like that..Why they put crossovers in them?Probably to change their charasteristics isn't it?
I have a pair of under the radar speakers 1st order crossovers too.@@beslemeto
@@johnshore3095 Which ones?
The Sonab 4000 is made in england by Cambridge amplifiers
right ok thanks
Excellent review as usual 👍💯👍
Thank you! Cheers!
Gold.
Another great review Kelvin just love your reviews 😊
I believe that LNB's earlier speaker used an Elac elliptical bass/ mid unit with a KEF T27. It was inexpensive, but pretty good.
Kelvin!!!!!!! wooohoooo! / two lava lamps now :)
It's getting serious 😊
It could be that lava lamp is the only product I endorse 😅
@@stereoreviewx still waiting on Review of the EPOS ES11 or ES12 or ES14 ( I love these), any ES really
Great video👍
Love TL with 70s kef drivers
I still have the original review of these in Practical hifi mag August 1976. They reviewed quite well. Measured a bit wonky though with a large suck-out in the 5-10khz presence band. These are LNB Paralab 20's. Nice review Kelvin and a rare find. I agree with you 100% about amplifier/speaker matching and price has nothing to do with it.
My chance you could send me that review? Or drop a link to it?
@@paulkelleway8032 Hi. Well it's in an old hifi mag which I've had for years unfortunately. I don't have scan facilities and it's certainly not on line. If you can find a copy of Practical hifi and audio from August 1976, it's in there. It's in a comparison between British and Japanese speakers of 1976. Leave it with me, I'll see what I can do.
Yes, I should’ve said actually, I kept those speakers close to me like 7 feet or the mid range got weak
@@stereoreviewxThat would agree with the measurements. It looked liked they may have got the tweeter out of phase at the xover point.
Bedankt
Thanks a lot K
Thanks for the review. I remember reading an review of the speakers back in the 70s. Should dig it out.
The Sonab receiver was designed in Sweden and built by Cambridge Audio (Stan Curtis, P40, P50, P60 and the rest). At 40W per channel it won't be Class A with the heatsinks shown. Might idle for the first few watts in Class A, however. The case was designed to be run over by a car! Which apparently it could withstand.
The interesting spec it has is it's damping factor which is on the high side for the time being 100. Typical values of the period would about 50. The Nad 3020's was 55. And today it would have cost about £4, 440.
Hi Kelvin, Enjoyed your new video always very informative and entertaining! You mentioned the Keff Correlli, which I own. Bought them around 1979 and still have them. Would be interested to hear your views about them, am thinking about replacing them but to what Im not sure.
Well o certainly wouldn’t replace them with say £300 modern speaker
Don’t forget to tighten the bass drivers up that’s winner
So true just get the right mix 👍
They look nice speakers, class
They’ll no be cheep now after you kelvin saying there good , 😂 I bet there £200 plus now 👍 keep up the great work
You dont need thick panels with transmission line design as the transmision line acts as a very dense brace.
yes good point
There rough & ready,.. but there ready, that's the main thing
Synergy is everything
For sure
- you're entertainment incorporated also -
Unless you're worried about disturbing the neighbours with a speaker that actually can reproduce bass, 'the wife factor' (size) or you have high end money to burn. Well engineered old transmission lines make a highly compelling argument.
Sure do
@@stereoreviewx A few blown transmission lines here Kelvin ;) Sure you can imagine the shame. Someone's already mentioned the organ music. So yes, try them with Charles- Marie Widor Tocatta if you' haven't.
Hey Kelvin, I'm looking for some speakers to go with a 311,411, or 511 in North America. I'm going for a "camp fire " on shrooms type sound. Chilled out with all the sounds to create the best listing experience. I've been using some 1996 JBL's 6.5" 2 way speakers that are 89db and super rad, but the titanium 1" tweet gets Ssss on anything above 5 on the Volume dial. Thanks man.
Brilliant, sounds description 🤣
My first thought is big old celestion s
If you’re talking vintage, I’d say not Wharfdale, possibly big Kef like cadenza Concerto. That range. Early seventies
Has real wood veneer
Not sure what prevalent in USA
But yeah, keep away from the titanium Twitter
I’m still laughing at your discription
Cheers K
What about Leak 3030 speakers. Very rare also..
Similar in technology to my B&W DM2A's Transmission Line...which i think also use a Coles Super Tweeter and KEF main driver and are also 3-way.
Main driver was actually a B&W bextrene unit, the DW200.
Curiously, there is another para lab that has the celestial HF, 1300 Twitter, instead of the kef T2 7+ the coles supertweeter
Great review---nothing like system synergy! when you get it---you know it. BTW, where did you get those lava lamps?/ What brand?? Love them!
Thanks for another thoroughly entertaining and informative video Kelvin. One question though - how do you know which amp/speakers/source work well together without endless trial and error (and expense) ?
Well, I don’t think you can tell, but in this case, the speakers had capabilities and needed an amp with similar capabilities
Now, I just know, most of my Japanese amps will be inferior to that European sound bass wise
@@stereoreviewx That is handy to know as I'm a basshead ! I've currently got an Arcam Alpha 6 Plus, which is old and lovely. Thanks for replying
Hi Kelvin.
Another person who attended the Hifi show near Silverstone here.
Believe me, a vast majority of the mega priced systems on show sounded dreadful, like really bad. Way too aggressive sounding. Speaker cabinets of Die cast aluminium extrusions and the like. All nonsense.
There were exceptions. The Audio Note room sounded really nice. I mention this as the construction of their speakers is similar in its simplicity to the speakers you’re reviewing here. Not too much bracing or mass loaded materials. The BBC worked this out years ago. IE the LS3/5a and Harbeths etc so it should be no surprise they sound good.
Cheers
Yes, I was going to mention with the para labs that the box was really a player in the sound .
I must get myself to one of these shows I’m thinking people are just designing things on computers and no one is listening
You’re probably right. They all make extraordinary claims that it’s the best Hifi in the world. They can’t all be right. Ha
I’m being unkind. It was a luxury Hifi show and was advertised as such. I thought I’d go as it has been years since I visited one. What I took away from the show was ultimately what I took away from the last one I went to 15 years ago.
A) Getting a good sound in a large hotel conference room and lots of people is near impossible (the smaller rooms faired better).
B) I honestly believe that most of the systems are for the rich and not even the audiophile rich. It’s just jewellery.
The systems in the large rooms I just can’t fathom where they would go in even a larger than average house? And what would you do? Go and sit in a 12m X 25m on your own and listen to an album in your sweet spot? Nah.
Cheers
@@stereoreviewxI was at this years Bristol show and I agree that most of it sounded terrible, but there’s a lot of noise and the rooms are not very good, mostly small bedrooms. But one speaker that did impress me was the amphion, but the pricing of it is ridiciculous, and by impress me I mean it sounded like a 70’s speaker, lush and musical. Audionote usually sound good, but based on the Snell design so another vintage speaker in essence!
Synergy Kelvin.
yep
Hello Kelvin, would you know if these are the same as the bextrene b200 in the kef cantor ii speakers, triangle shape from about 1980
No I don’t think so, but ironically they are from the earlier Cantor if you look that one up the original Kev Cantor
B200 , SP1014
I have a pair of these , the crossover's are very basic and internal wiring poor quality . But for the £70 on gumtree Stockbridge I paid , great value . And a tenners worth of new capacitor's and fully re-wired with proper banana terminals on the back panel you have a £1000 sound for 1/10th of the price .
Yes is all I can say 😀
Wow! Thanks for the discovery. Do you love them more than your BC1s?
Good question bc1 bigger soundstage
Larger sound
Paralab more detailed bass
Really bc1 best top end
Pressing LIKE ..:: 😂🥸⭐️
The beauty must be in the sound because without the grills on they look like a mid-schoolers shop class product. Dang that is poorly cut.
Hi Kelvin...it seems like another great vintage speaker...
Question: what do you think about the vintage Linn CD12 player...or would I be better off getting a Copland CDA 289...at less than half the cost?...or if anyone else has knowlege of these...please advise me...
Yeah, I don’t rightly know sorry
Falcon are selling new T27's B110 and B139
Oh wow, and the B139. I hate to look up the cost 😁
I am curios If T27 doesn't really need the ls3/5a metal grille because I found it relevant when missing and a bit too bright
Yes that metal grill is very interesting question
Someone is actually making those now I have half of mind to buy them and put them on some other T-20 seven tweeters just to see what the differences
don't knock chipboard I think it's the best material for speaker cabinets better than MDF. you can build your speakers really cheap buy an inch thick chipboard worktop, from Wickes it's about 65£ you can build a good set of speakers.
I agree. It may not machine as well as mdf but it sounds better for sure. I can hear an MDF speaker a mile off. Lowther Acoustics advised that you never made their horn cabinets from MDF. Only chipboard and ply. MDF has a distinctive ring to it.
Yes mdf has higher note if you tap it
I couldn't even find it on google (:
Lnb para lab 20
As mentioned by @peterlarkin762 these were made by LNB in Loughborough by Mike Batten.
I worked at Audio T in Enfield in 1981 and sold the Lab 20 & 30.
All his speakers were well voiced and had a natural midrange with extended bass and hf. Better than Spendor BC-1 too.
Sounds fair
Bc1 goes a bit lower I think
I wonder how these would compare to my TDL Studio 1M.
How do you find the TDL Studio 1M?
@@NomadBDP Amazing mids and highs and a low end that can terrify people, but not in a bad way. It needs a confident amp to keep it under control and to keep the bass tuneful, weaker amps can make it sound a bit flabby. Not sure if they are better or worse than my B&W DM2 yet, still comparing the two. I have a thing for transmission lines, one day I hope to own IMF TLS 80.
I think this video might be responsible for an upcoming gold rush for ParaLab 20s and Sonab R4000s 😂
Thankfully my flat is too small and the walls too thin to really suit bass reproduction like this.
If not, no one is bloody listening to me 😅
I just can't understand why you need a super tweeter when the T27 can hit 35 khz
I think two domes fills more air
But to your point, the T-20 seven is really partnered with a supertweeter
Looks like a Ditton 44 in a different box
Eh? The ditton 44 had a 12" bass driver, a 5" cone midband and a HF2000 tweeter. Nothing like these at all.
@@analoglooney Numbers can be confusing..
Heineken shmineken
Two lava lamp class
I'm curious to know among these speakers and the B&W DM4 which are your favourites since it seems they are both two speakers that have impressed you a lot 🙂
A lot depends on the room, speaker placement and the rest of the equipment, it’s hard to say how a speaker will sound v another without having them both in your room. I own these and they sound great in my downstairs room which is 13ft x 17ft, I tried them upstairs in a small 9ftx12ft room and they don’t sound so good, but a small stand mount in that smaller room sounds great. You have to try things in your own room is what I would suggest.
Well, right now, I am loving the para lab
Thing is, it’s really that sonab that makes it work
Other amps really don’t do the same trick