A true social conservative is opposed to great inequality because of its corrosive and de-stabilizing consequences for families, communities and the national wellbeing. But the social conservative is concerned more about duties than 'rights'. Unashamedly paternalistic, the conservative considers it their duty to protect the weakest members of society such as children, the elderly and the disabled.
I think we need to define our terms here. What specifically do we mean by social conservatism? My view of the English working class is that the majority are culturally conservative but socially liberal to a moderate extent. They want want to conserve existing traditions and institutions but they don't want to turn the clock back to the 1950's. They mostly support centre-left economic polices without being sold on the progressive or 'woke' social justice movement. That is where the centre ground lies.
@@clearingland I agree. I think there is a compelling case for the SDP leadership to approach MPs from all parties to attempt to get them consider joining the SDP. The SDP policies more closely reflect the middle ground in the UK and I suspect that many MPs - particularly those in marginal Conservative constituencies, would be open to 'jumping ship'. They would have valuable experience and, in a hung parliament, a degree of influence out of proportion to their numbers. ( think DUP under Theresa May)
I agree, I consider myself a Social Democrat and I come from a working-class background etc. I think you are spot on culturally conservative is spot on and Socially and economically center left . What Franklin Roosevelt described as common sense and practical policies. As an Englishman, it sounds strange but I suppose I would be a New Deal Social Democrat, or an Atlee Social Democrat, etc. I am a Social Democrat but as much as I like William Coulston and he seems like he would be up for a good chat I think he is far too focused on Social Conservatism and with people like myself who grew up in that background but perhaps are doing better but have never forgotten their roots. Remain much as you state culturally conservative but socially and economically liberal to a moderate extent. I think the SDP is in the ballpark but not quite hitting it out. But I say that as someone who is within the SDP would be likely placed left of center of the SDP. From what I've seen of William he sits opposite and is Right of Center.
The fault of Thatcherism and Thatcher is that she seemed to think you could almost completely detach economic policy from social and moral conditions. Norman Tebbit summed it up when he made his famous "get on ye bike" speech when he condemned rioters in the 81 Toxteth and Brixton riots. They would talk of "Victorian Values" but would often failed to mention that there was an awful lot of criminality in 19th Century Britain, as Charles Dickens enjoyed documenting in his novels! Thatcher didn't seem to think of Bill Sykes when she talked of Victorian values...
The housing situation in the UK is obscene. Every parent should be up in arms about the fact that their children are condemned to a life of extortionate rents.
Personally I think a number was done on the boomer generation. From religion to ethnic loyalty to male authority to the nuclear family to a respect for tradition etc. Everything which linked boomers to their forefathers and progeny was either delegitimised or deconstructed. Many boomers have such an individualised concept of their own place in the world that they are barely able to contemplate their own children's future, let alone their grandchildren or the nation at large. Even the supposedly right wing ones will simply say "yeah the country is going to shit but I won't be here to see it" - as if that is somehow a win. Also, those that can afford it will probably help their kids onto the housing ladder. But most don't have the knowledge to recognise that their kids will not be able to do the same for their grandkids. It is a pyramid scheme and a massive transfer of wealth to the top.
@@clearingland the private/public renting model is probably close to what housing assocs offer. I would suggest reintroducing assured tenancies ( as opposed to short hold tenancies) into the private rent market which. Would at least strengthen tenants rights and may scare pension pot landlords into releasing housing stock that could deflate the market
@@clearingland legislations already in place as has been around for decades. I think this is still the norm in Germany where many still rent because of the tenancy protections etc.
If people with certain kinds of cultural or social views want to truly change society then they should focus less on Westminster and instead focus on the little platoons, as Edmund Burke would say. They should focus on their local communities etc... This is how you change public opinion that eventually will make its way into politics. Speaking as a gay person, this is exactly what gay people did. The focus wasn't overly on politics, it was on your local family and friends. Come out to your community and you change people's minds about what they think of homosexuality. Then the politics catches up, eventually.
Crime is on a downward trend? This is utterly complacent and absurd. People are most concerned with evil crimes - violent gangs and rapists especially of children and the incidence and severity of these have been increasing for decades. It is also preposterous to suggest as Ed does that because paramedics and surgeons save the lives of those stabbed that crimes have not occurred.
Europeans Always tolerated people who were wealthier, for we had an aristocracy and royalty, no pogroms there because there was a sense of connection in a common polity and civilisational project, and so also of legitimacy. The Jews did not and so were not and their self selling point as economic middle man minority group was that outsider position and a capacity for ruthlessness as tax collectors, loansharks and slavers and latterly strong liquor and smut pushers that enabled them to accrue great wealth through extraction, exploitation and demoralisation of the local communities at the known risks of ruler repayment defaults and peasant revolt. As a very mobile community, with liquid wealth and the most extensive social and ethnic networks around the world they always had a freer choice of how to live and where than your average European of the lower or upper classes and there very few in the middle. Doubtless a great deal of folklore prejudice, religious and secular grew up and unfair blame and punishments were dealt out unjustly but the context was never simply that these were lovely outsiders on the pointy end of baseless mindless bigotry. It is an irony that the bloodlibel of murderous antisemitism has been so liberally doled out against our ancestors for half a century now without any pushback.
Honestly, what we need is less ideology in our politics. I used to be quite ideological my self at one time, but now I would support a political system that discouraged ideology. Different parties working together in govt. Most British people are pragmatic, it's people that are obsessed with politics that become so ideological. Maybe a jury style system for discussing certain big divisive topics may be a good idea that takes those issues out of the madness of party politics?
like a citizens' assembly, like in ireland? it is quite funny that the sdp seems very keen on doing loads of very european things - what on earth were you all doing with brexit then? no chance of stuff like that happening now.
Britain's more liberal than you people think - more liberal than I, certainly economically. Thatcher, Blair, Cameron never would have happened if the electorate were how you talk about them. I get your economic worldview and Clouston seems a nice bloke, but the country doesn't want to go back to the 50s. Life was harsh for most people.
The problem with political obsessives is that they think the govt can effect our culture. This is not true. Britain lived through 18 years of Tory government from 1979 to 1997 and was Britain more socially conservative or liberal in 1997 compared to 1979? The Tories have never, ever, made Britain more socially conservative. This has been the truth stretching back to the beginning of the 1800s. In Britain cultural change comes from the bottom, not the top. Hardly anyone in Britain is socially conservative today, in any meaningful sense, and being socially conservative is a net vote loser. Otherwise why do socially liberal governments keep winning? Why was Iain Duncan Smith, a social conservative, so unpopular as Tory leader? Why did David Cameron, a socially liberal Tory, win two general elections?
But the culture of government is Liberalism. It has worked inside the post 1945 Liberal paradigm. They have gone with the grain of international finance capitalism and the forces of open borders Globalisation.
And heres the rub: a true social conservative does not believe public opinion can or should dictate morality. In the final analysis the social conservative claims to pursues the Good, the True and the Beautiful regardless of popularity. After all, it could be that the majority of the population are morally degenerate.
A true social conservative is opposed to great inequality because of its corrosive and de-stabilizing consequences for families, communities and the national wellbeing. But the social conservative is concerned more about duties than 'rights'. Unashamedly paternalistic, the conservative considers it their duty to protect the weakest members of society such as children, the elderly and the disabled.
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Excellent and highly recommended to all, but especially those voting in the coming May local elections in the UK.
I think we need to define our terms here. What specifically do we mean by social conservatism? My view of the English working class is that the majority are culturally conservative but socially liberal to a moderate extent. They want want to conserve existing traditions and institutions but they don't want to turn the clock back to the 1950's. They mostly support centre-left economic polices without being sold on the progressive or 'woke' social justice movement. That is where the centre ground lies.
@@clearingland I agree. I think there is a compelling case for the SDP leadership to approach MPs from all parties to attempt to get them consider joining the SDP. The SDP policies more closely reflect the middle ground in the UK and I suspect that many MPs - particularly those in marginal Conservative constituencies, would be open to 'jumping ship'. They would have valuable experience and, in a hung parliament, a degree of influence out of proportion to their numbers. ( think DUP under Theresa May)
I agree, I consider myself a Social Democrat and I come from a working-class background etc. I think you are spot on culturally conservative is spot on and Socially and economically center left . What Franklin Roosevelt described as common sense and practical policies. As an Englishman, it sounds strange but I suppose I would be a New Deal Social Democrat, or an Atlee Social Democrat, etc. I am a Social Democrat but as much as I like William Coulston and he seems like he would be up for a good chat I think he is far too focused on Social Conservatism and with people like myself who grew up in that background but perhaps are doing better but have never forgotten their roots. Remain much as you state culturally conservative but socially and economically liberal to a moderate extent. I think the SDP is in the ballpark but not quite hitting it out. But I say that as someone who is within the SDP would be likely placed left of center of the SDP. From what I've seen of William he sits opposite and is Right of Center.
The fault of Thatcherism and Thatcher is that she seemed to think you could almost completely detach economic policy from social and moral conditions. Norman Tebbit summed it up when he made his famous "get on ye bike" speech when he condemned rioters in the 81 Toxteth and Brixton riots. They would talk of "Victorian Values" but would often failed to mention that there was an awful lot of criminality in 19th Century Britain, as Charles Dickens enjoyed documenting in his novels! Thatcher didn't seem to think of Bill Sykes when she talked of Victorian values...
The housing situation in the UK is obscene. Every parent should be up in arms about the fact that their children are condemned to a life of extortionate rents.
Personally I think a number was done on the boomer generation. From religion to ethnic loyalty to male authority to the nuclear family to a respect for tradition etc. Everything which linked boomers to their forefathers and progeny was either delegitimised or deconstructed. Many boomers have such an individualised concept of their own place in the world that they are barely able to contemplate their own children's future, let alone their grandchildren or the nation at large. Even the supposedly right wing ones will simply say "yeah the country is going to shit but I won't be here to see it" - as if that is somehow a win. Also, those that can afford it will probably help their kids onto the housing ladder. But most don't have the knowledge to recognise that their kids will not be able to do the same for their grandkids. It is a pyramid scheme and a massive transfer of wealth to the top.
Well they'll leave their house to their kids one day.
@@religdeb yes after the profits have been plundered by a private care home owner.
@@clearingland the private/public renting model is probably close to what housing assocs offer. I would suggest reintroducing assured tenancies ( as opposed to short hold tenancies) into the private rent market which. Would at least strengthen tenants rights and may scare pension pot landlords into releasing housing stock that could deflate the market
@@clearingland legislations already in place as has been around for decades. I think this is still the norm in Germany where many still rent because of the tenancy protections etc.
If people with certain kinds of cultural or social views want to truly change society then they should focus less on Westminster and instead focus on the little platoons, as Edmund Burke would say. They should focus on their local communities etc... This is how you change public opinion that eventually will make its way into politics. Speaking as a gay person, this is exactly what gay people did. The focus wasn't overly on politics, it was on your local family and friends. Come out to your community and you change people's minds about what they think of homosexuality. Then the politics catches up, eventually.
Ed West misses the point that private developers sit on land as an investment. We need to build houses now.
Crime is on a downward trend? This is utterly complacent and absurd. People are most concerned with evil crimes - violent gangs and rapists especially of children and the incidence and severity of these have been increasing for decades. It is also preposterous to suggest as Ed does that because paramedics and surgeons save the lives of those stabbed that crimes have not occurred.
Good discussion 👍
How is that "economic downturn that we are facing", going now???!!
It’s going to be
I found it difficult to follow what West was saying due to poor sound quality, too 'echo-ey'. Please consult a sound engineer.
it's recorded in an empty room, hence the echo.
16:17 Exactly. Wokeism is not liberalism.
Europeans Always tolerated people who were wealthier, for we had an aristocracy and royalty, no pogroms there because there was a sense of connection in a common polity and civilisational project, and so also of legitimacy.
The Jews did not and so were not and their self selling point as economic middle man minority group was that outsider position and a capacity for ruthlessness as tax collectors, loansharks and slavers and latterly strong liquor and smut pushers that enabled them to accrue great wealth through extraction, exploitation and demoralisation of the local communities at the known risks of ruler repayment defaults and peasant revolt.
As a very mobile community, with liquid wealth and the most extensive social and ethnic networks around the world they always had a freer choice of how to live and where than your average European of the lower or upper classes and there very few in the middle.
Doubtless a great deal of folklore prejudice, religious and secular grew up and unfair blame and punishments were dealt out unjustly but the context was never simply that these were lovely outsiders on the pointy end of baseless mindless bigotry. It is an irony that the bloodlibel of murderous antisemitism has been so liberally doled out against our ancestors for half a century now without any pushback.
@NOWHERE PEOPLE That bloodlibel has birthed a great many others & these are the weapons of our destruction.
Jews at one time followed certain occupations, because they were the only ones permitted for them, and what might Jews have to do with this post?
Aren't the so called Tories now social Conservatives / Liberal? That's the issue with this country now. .No real choice in politics anymore ...
Honestly, what we need is less ideology in our politics. I used to be quite ideological my self at one time, but now I would support a political system that discouraged ideology. Different parties working together in govt. Most British people are pragmatic, it's people that are obsessed with politics that become so ideological. Maybe a jury style system for discussing certain big divisive topics may be a good idea that takes those issues out of the madness of party politics?
like a citizens' assembly, like in ireland? it is quite funny that the sdp seems very keen on doing loads of very european things - what on earth were you all doing with brexit then? no chance of stuff like that happening now.
Would love to see Ed debate Douglas Murray
DM is a Classical Liberal and pro war NeoCon.
@@evolassunglasses4673 Meaning that he should not be allowed to debate Ed?
@@frankgraaf1531 meaning he isn't a small c conservative. I wanted to point the fact out. He can talk to Putin if he wants.
A more recent report from time.
Ed's mic is pointing down lol
Britain's more liberal than you people think - more liberal than I, certainly economically. Thatcher, Blair, Cameron never would have happened if the electorate were how you talk about them. I get your economic worldview and Clouston seems a nice bloke, but the country doesn't want to go back to the 50s. Life was harsh for most people.
We aren't going back. But after decades of open borders Globalisation which has now hollowed out the West, we will need new thinking.
Late 1990s/early 2000s (minus EU membership and overseas military interventions) would be okay by me.
The problem with political obsessives is that they think the govt can effect our culture. This is not true. Britain lived through 18 years of Tory government from 1979 to 1997 and was Britain more socially conservative or liberal in 1997 compared to 1979? The Tories have never, ever, made Britain more socially conservative. This has been the truth stretching back to the beginning of the 1800s. In Britain cultural change comes from the bottom, not the top. Hardly anyone in Britain is socially conservative today, in any meaningful sense, and being socially conservative is a net vote loser. Otherwise why do socially liberal governments keep winning? Why was Iain Duncan Smith, a social conservative, so unpopular as Tory leader? Why did David Cameron, a socially liberal Tory, win two general elections?
But the culture of government is Liberalism. It has worked inside the post 1945 Liberal paradigm.
They have gone with the grain of international finance capitalism and the forces of open borders Globalisation.
And heres the rub: a true social conservative does not believe public opinion can or should dictate morality. In the final analysis the social conservative claims to pursues the Good, the True and the Beautiful regardless of popularity. After all, it could be that the majority of the population are morally degenerate.
How does The Social Democratic Party differ from Corbyn?
Corbyn is a hard left socialist who is socially liberal. The SDP are social democrats who are socially conservative.
@@dave_goldcrest how does The SDP differ from Old Labour?
@@kayedal-haddad The SDP is quite similar to Old Labour in spirit, except that they are focussed on the issues of today.
@@dave_goldcrest how does the SDP differ from New Labour?
@@clearingland would you vote for them personally?