As a novice canoe builder, i can appreciate the amount of prep time that got you to yhis point. Thankx for the video, it was informative and I learned something new.
I don't usually use Soric in this way along the keel line, I usually use it for ribs. However the whole point of this concept boat was to enable the comparison of the different laminate combinations in terms of stiffness and strength. If I'd used Soric for the ribs, it would have undermined the purpose. Great stuff though!
Really enjoyed this. I'm a canoe and surfski racer (ACA downriver, USCA marathon, outrigger) and am curious what specs this boat meets. Definitely looks more like K1 seat position vs C1 ICF which is typically high kneel.
@@darksidecanoes7053 that's awesome. I actually have the same thing, made by Wenonah in the late 80s/early 90s. Mine had a tractor style sliding seat that I removed and replaced with an outrigger style foam seat that's about 1 - 2 inches lower as I like to race some local class I-II whitewater races and need the extra stability haha.
Guys u have 2 spray the gellcoat please . Other than that Awesome. As a former world class canoeist ( 1979 world championships in canada & still the owner of a C1 down river canoe in carbon kevlar ) nice work
@@user-os7kz3jy5c Hi Jeffrey, l only did a little bit of Sprint C1 . Yeh, l was paddling during the era of these UK GR8's. Albert Kerr K1 Slalom. Ric h ard Fox K1 Slalom & Martin (Bushy) Hedges C1 Slalom who sadly passed away in a car accident. There was another terrific guy , pretty sure he name was Keene who also paddled C1 Slalom. I represented Australia C1 Down River & C1 Slalom. The best in the world 4 C1 Slalom 1979 for 10yr + were the Americans by along way . They had an awesome coach, Bill Endicott. And the best Australian K1 Sprint Paddler was John Sumegi . He came 2nd '79 Worlds & '80 Olympics. Gaybo Canoes built my C1 slalom boats & C1 D.R. boats . Think they r out of business these days . Pretty sure the best boats from all those disciplines come out of Europe these days .
I would love to be able to spray the gelcoat on the mold but spraying equipment is a big investment and you need to learn spraying skills to ensure a quality result. All donations towards spray equipment would be gratefully received!! 🙂
Nice to see the detail of how you put this together - especially things like the jointing of components and bonding in parts. The only thing I am confused about is that you seem to use different materials on the left and right side (e.g. spread tow twill Vs. Carbon kevlar), or am I confused between top and bottom?
Hi Karl, the point of this boat was to show a number of different combinations of fabric and resin. I can't afford to make four boats so I did four in one. My frustration is that there are no perfect combinations because it is a compromise, so which one is the best? It is to stimulate debate.
Interesting parting line and only a half-lap joint on the inside to bond the two together. Intuitively I would have gone for a top/bottom split instead.
Now that's the $34,000 question! Each combination is right and there are dozens more that are equally good, but how does one know which is the best other than to try them all. I wasn't keen on the "green" fabrics as they don't look great and don't "wet out" consistently. The material cost are probably the smallest part of the overall cost as it is labour which is the biggest component which is why I never understand why customer opt for the cheapest fabrics.
Hi Chris, the point of this boat was to show a number of different combinations of fabric and resin. I can't afford to make four boats so I did four in one. My frustration is that there are no perfect combinations because it is a compromise, so which one is the best? It is to stimulate debate.
You get good power while remaining very quiet upper body and minimal fore/aft movement, much more so than other paddlers and I aspire to this style. Are you using a rotating seat?
I found an old video searching for this one of a company called Silicon Composites Ltd that apparently makes reusable silicone vacuum bags. You need a mold, but it seems to be pretty interesting if you are not doing a unique piece and are doing more than one. In the video I saw they use it on a small hull.
Hi, the price for a new boat is £1,800. I'd have to investigate the best/easiest way ti get the boat to Germany post-Brexit and Covid restrictions. Quickest way is to drive over to the UK.
@@darksidecanoes7053 Ah very cool. I tried learning how to do this and man is it hard to find info out there. I'd pay for a course if anyone ever made something like that. Hopefully I can save up and be a customer of yours sometime
I would like to see someone dimple the bottom of one of these for drag reduction. I had ride on a dimpled kneeboard years ago and you could turns sideways and skid yourself back towards the boat whilst underway, just a guesstimate there was about a 50 percent reduction in drag.
The question is, how do you create a consistent pattern across the whole boat surface? The concept is similar to a shark's skin. Some paddler have tried to roughen the surface with sandpaper but it just produces a series of random scratches.
The experience of making many mistakes! This is the frustration of the composites industry, there is no knowledge base, and engineers are reluctant to share information. This is what I would like to change. For racing canoes, I choose a 200 gram carbon weave layer, and a 200 gram hybrid carbon/innegra or other other aramid (but not Kevlar). I use Soric ribs to add rigidity.
@@vspetkov I'm not great fan of Kevlar. It was invented back in 1965 and there have been other more modern products developed since, including Innegra and Twaron. Kevlar starts nice and golden colour, but as it ages and absorbs water it turns an ugly dark brown. I know it's used by many canoe manufacturers by I sometimes wonder if that is because they've always used it, or because they really do think it's the best.
![How to get BACK IN when your Canoe tips over [SOLO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lFP1cHGVQkM/mqdefault.jpg)
As a novice canoe builder, i can appreciate the amount of prep time that got you to yhis point.
Thankx for the video, it was informative and I learned something new.
Great to see people still wearing pebble watches.
Interesting use of Soric for the overlapping tape
I don't usually use Soric in this way along the keel line, I usually use it for ribs. However the whole point of this concept boat was to enable the comparison of the different laminate combinations in terms of stiffness and strength.
If I'd used Soric for the ribs, it would have undermined the purpose.
Great stuff though!
Great job guys 👏👏
Thanks
Really enjoyed this. I'm a canoe and surfski racer (ACA downriver, USCA marathon, outrigger) and am curious what specs this boat meets. Definitely looks more like K1 seat position vs C1 ICF which is typically high kneel.
This is a sit&switch canoe which conforms to the ICF specifications. High-kneel is for "athletes", which I am not!
@@darksidecanoes7053 that's awesome. I actually have the same thing, made by Wenonah in the late 80s/early 90s. Mine had a tractor style sliding seat that I removed and replaced with an outrigger style foam seat that's about 1 - 2 inches lower as I like to race some local class I-II whitewater races and need the extra stability haha.
Guys u have 2 spray the gellcoat please . Other than that Awesome. As a former world class canoeist ( 1979 world championships in canada & still the owner of a C1 down river canoe in carbon kevlar ) nice work
Just out of curiosity, I assume you paddled during the delta era of canoe sprint, how would to compare the old deltas to modern icf c1s?
@@user-os7kz3jy5c Hi Jeffrey, l only did a little bit of Sprint C1 . Yeh, l was paddling during the era of these UK GR8's. Albert Kerr K1 Slalom. Ric h ard Fox K1 Slalom & Martin (Bushy) Hedges C1 Slalom who sadly passed away in a car accident. There was another terrific guy , pretty sure he name was Keene who also paddled C1 Slalom.
I represented Australia C1 Down River & C1 Slalom. The best in the world 4 C1 Slalom 1979 for 10yr + were the Americans by along way . They had an awesome coach, Bill Endicott. And the best Australian K1 Sprint Paddler was John Sumegi . He came 2nd '79 Worlds & '80 Olympics. Gaybo Canoes built my C1 slalom boats & C1 D.R. boats .
Think they r out of business these days . Pretty sure the best boats from all those disciplines come out of Europe these days .
I would love to be able to spray the gelcoat on the mold but spraying equipment is a big investment and you need to learn spraying skills to ensure a quality result.
All donations towards spray equipment would be gratefully received!! 🙂
That is one sexy water craft right there!
Nice to see the detail of how you put this together - especially things like the jointing of components and bonding in parts.
The only thing I am confused about is that you seem to use different materials on the left and right side (e.g. spread tow twill Vs. Carbon kevlar), or am I confused between top and bottom?
Hi Karl, the point of this boat was to show a number of different combinations of fabric and resin. I can't afford to make four boats so I did four in one.
My frustration is that there are no perfect combinations because it is a compromise, so which one is the best?
It is to stimulate debate.
@@darksidecanoes7053 ah, that makes perfect sense!
Interesting parting line and only a half-lap joint on the inside to bond the two together. Intuitively I would have gone for a top/bottom split instead.
Joining the boat down the centre line reduces the length of the join and also provides an opportunity to stiffen the lower hull join.
Which combination gives the best strength to cost ratio?
Which was the easiest to work with?
Now that's the $34,000 question! Each combination is right and there are dozens more that are equally good, but how does one know which is the best other than to try them all.
I wasn't keen on the "green" fabrics as they don't look great and don't "wet out" consistently.
The material cost are probably the smallest part of the overall cost as it is labour which is the biggest component which is why I never understand why customer opt for the cheapest fabrics.
Can I ask why you used different fabrics for different parts of the canoe rather than the same layup throughout?
Hi Chris, the point of this boat was to show a number of different combinations of fabric and resin. I can't afford to make four boats so I did four in one.
My frustration is that there are no perfect combinations because it is a compromise, so which one is the best?
It is to stimulate debate.
You get good power while remaining very quiet upper body and minimal fore/aft movement, much more so than other paddlers and I aspire to this style. Are you using a rotating seat?
Not using a rotating seat in this sequence, that development came later. This sequence certainly shows the need though.
@@darksidecanoes7053 Ok, thanks so much
You could benefit from a fractal vice's design if you created your own fractal vice style clamps.
I love the infusion process and have used it extensively but am going off all the waste. More plastic, peelply etc that cannot be recycled.
Sad but true. I hate throwing away all the consumables and sometimes try to reuse the bagging film - BIG MISTAKE!
@@darksidecanoes7053 Yes, me too. Such a fight with tacky tape and old bag film!
I found an old video searching for this one of a company called Silicon Composites Ltd that apparently makes reusable silicone vacuum bags.
You need a mold, but it seems to be pretty interesting if you are not doing a unique piece and are doing more than one. In the video I saw they use it on a small hull.
A canoe can live 100 years. Every kayaker is one fewer motorboater. Not too worried about pieces of art either.
Is this where SR got his idea for the hull/capsule of his submersible the Titan? But he did his wrong?
Ha,ha! Carbon is good, but it's not that good.
I like it it looks great how does a paddle
I didn't really give it a good go because it is built for an exhibition display. I wouldn't use plant based fabrics for racing boats though.
nice
Thanks
How come you have used an epoxy pigment with a polyester based gelcoat?
Well spotted. It's all I had in the workshop. I rarely use pigment.
@@darksidecanoes7053 Thanks for the reply.
Video well done
Thanks
Hate how you make it look so easy 😂.
Thanks, but you would not believe how hard it was to get to this position.
Hello!
Price including Shipping to Germany for a Canoe ?
Thx 💪🏻
Hi, the price for a new boat is £1,800. I'd have to investigate the best/easiest way ti get the boat to Germany post-Brexit and Covid restrictions. Quickest way is to drive over to the UK.
Am I missing something? Dont you need an autoclave for this?
No, that's just for pre-preg fabrics, this is dry fabrics under vacuum, and the resin is drawn in.
@@darksidecanoes7053 Ah very cool. I tried learning how to do this and man is it hard to find info out there. I'd pay for a course if anyone ever made something like that. Hopefully I can save up and be a customer of yours sometime
@@philincaundo I made a lot of mistakes along the way!
I would like to see someone dimple the bottom of one of these for drag reduction. I had ride on a dimpled kneeboard years ago and you could turns sideways and skid yourself back towards the boat whilst underway, just a guesstimate there was about a 50 percent reduction in drag.
The question is, how do you create a consistent pattern across the whole boat surface? The concept is similar to a shark's skin.
Some paddler have tried to roughen the surface with sandpaper but it just produces a series of random scratches.
perfect. hope you can buy it ...!
I look forward to your order!! :-)
quantos cobra pra fazer uma capa de prótese de fibra pra minha perna mecanica
Sorry, prosthetics are way out of my comfort zone.
I wouldn't call it a canoe. It's rather some sort of hybrid of canoe and kayak. Gorgeous though.
You have a point, it would not be good for tripping, wilderness paddling or a relaxed paddle, it simply conforms to the ICF specification for racing.
How do you determine how many layers you need?
The experience of making many mistakes! This is the frustration of the composites industry, there is no knowledge base, and engineers are reluctant to share information. This is what I would like to change.
For racing canoes, I choose a 200 gram carbon weave layer, and a 200 gram hybrid carbon/innegra or other other aramid (but not Kevlar). I use Soric ribs to add rigidity.
@@darksidecanoes7053 Hey, why not Kevlar?
@@vspetkov I'm not great fan of Kevlar. It was invented back in 1965 and there have been other more modern products developed since, including Innegra and Twaron.
Kevlar starts nice and golden colour, but as it ages and absorbs water it turns an ugly dark brown.
I know it's used by many canoe manufacturers by I sometimes wonder if that is because they've always used it, or because they really do think it's the best.
Very tidy result!! What was the weight of the bare hull?
👏👏👏👏
Cool, but that extremely low freeboard would never work in anything but glassy smooth water.
You're right, it's only designed for flat water racing.
@@darksidecanoes7053 Perfect for the job.
I wouldn't trust it you got one inch of clearance before water rushes in on either side. Good construction though.
Don't forget the boat is designed for flat water racing, plus it supports a full length spray deck.
Proset and WEST.
Old men yard
Canoeyak