+You are a dream come true! I can finally understand this chemical stuff. I can't believe it. Please, please, don't be a dream that disappears. I am hoping that what you are explaining is correct. Others seem to have tried and then been shot down for small inconsistencies or inaccuracies. I see no thumbs down on this info. so maybe you are the aquarium guru we've been searching for. praise God.
I assembled a 10 gallon tank with 6 inch Substrate and the water is crystal clear and my Endlers are happy!. Despite no water changes and daily feeding for 2 months! I wish there were more videos like this spreading the amazing filtering capacity of a deep substrate.
I have been searching for this since i started the hobby (a week ago hehe) I needed someone who knows a bit about chemicals and shit to explain to me all this water madness
Top explanation. Glad I found the video, plan on doing one myself. Heard conflicting stories about this around 4 years ago, decided to experiment with a deep sand substrate in an African Cichlid tank, 4 years in, no problems at all....and lower nitrates than I would have otherwise expected with the new maintenance regimen. Glad to see someone explain this technique, not nearly widely used enough in the hobby in my opinion. New sub from Australia. 👍
In nature, benthic communities, including riverine mud, have invertebrates recorded living up to 9 metres deep (according to a scholar at my old uni). We never measured H2S levels in anoxic conditions such as peat bogs, but my suspicion is that the presence of these gas pockets is not as widespread in nature as is thought, and geomorphic processes are the primary sources that release these gases into the atmosphere. The idea that these gases could form in a foot of substrate is in my mind highly unlikely. So I loved your video.
This video was so helpful! I know its old, but thank you! I have a question if possible.. what if bubbles that have the slight sulfur smell come in contact with your fish? Like they swim through it when it happens?
I think you smell it if you walk in a muddy mangrove patch..... It's natures way of keeping the sea clean :) .... And the same way we can keep aquariums clean.
Hi and thank you for the video. I may have exactly this problem with my walstad tank I set up 2 weeks ago. Most plants rot from the bottom up. Limnophila sessiliflora grew all the way to the surface within 10 days or so and then started to float because the roots rotted. No animals added yet, though I wanted to add shrimps and snails this week. If I add an airstone to prevent H2S in the water column, how will it change the chemical climate in the substrate to stop my plants rot?
So i just let the tank ride along if theres a strong sulfur rotten smell? My tank gets oxygen through wavemaker and outputs of filters. Found out my substrate is the culprit for the smell and i was gonna take it out and clean it out
Jay . we uses Photosynthetic Bacteria in RAS to neutralize H2S and clean the water . for Biofloc system, we heavily aerate the tank plus PSB... ammonia is reduce drastically plus no trace of H2S
I have followed your advice, a little bit more then planned, and my sand is turning black. The internet freaked me out about this (As its a sign of H2S), so I watched this video again to calm myself down. I'll just add more Trumpet Snails, and have an airstone on standby for if I smell gas. From what I can tell the same thing happened in your 10 month Deep Substrate only tank eventually. And so I won't panic and carry on calmly.
Does the substrate have to be mud or sand? I'm going to utilize the low flow section of a new sump I purchased and putting a big 4 inch thick marinepure block there...I'm further going to cover it completely with crushed coral because it helps buffer pH. I am just hoping that a covered bio block will be able to create the anaerobic zone successfully so that nitrate reduction happens.
I always use DIY substrate made of clay, worm castings and a little bit of peat, 2cm of DIY substrate and 3cm of gravel to cover it, but now I want to try 5cm of DIY substrate and 5cm of gravel, but not I know if I am going to have problems with the substrate in the anoxic zone. i have a lot of plant, and maybe the roots can hel in that way what do you think, do you have any experience using diy substrate in planted aquarium,
What if we have Malaysian trumpet snails in a deep substrate tank ? Would it work bcoz these snails go deep into the substrate in the day n come out at night ? Will These snails fail this system or be a benefit to it ?
Great videos! Very useful information and I am setting up a 40 gallon to try this. One question, how do you account for total dissolved solids accumulating?
Jay, PLEASE ANSWER this!!! Say I were to have ONE fish (12 in) in a 100gal bare bottom tank. In this tank I would have 1,000+ gal/hr of filtration. Knowing that these filters will only remove ammonia and nitrite, I would add a bunch of pothos, bamboo, etc. Could this turn this tank into a no water change tank? NOTE: I would also be feeding moderately once a day.
If you will allow me to dumb it down: Don't let tanks get stagnant. If you have deep substrate, make sure you have plants. If you're still having a problem (or you don't want plants), consider the following: airstone, trumpet snails, different type of substrate.
Hi Jay, I have a deep-substrate aquarium in my bed room for a month. I smell H2S occasionally. My window is always open, which it takes about 10-40s for the smell to fade. So far no livingstock have died, everything looks healthy, so I'm not quite worry about the aquarium from how you have explained in this video. My question is, does the H2S harm me? = =" Because I have set the tank in my bed room, and I can smell it quite often= =" The H2S bubbles pop up into surface from the deep-substrate, sometimes big and sometimes small in which it takes longer or shorter to fade in the room. Of course, while it don't kill the fish it shouldn't kill me as well. I mean I haven't been toxic reaction so far, if so I won't be asking silly here. But I can just smell the H2S quite often. (Personally)the sense is quite strong when the bigger bubbles pops. It is not likely 10ppm I guess. But still I want to ask is it a caution or chronic? I can't find much information from googling. Sorry for this long question= =". I have no chemistry or science background, just came to be a hobbies wanted an aquarium in the bed room. and suddenly worrying about killing myself HAHAHAHA~~
So here’s the thing… I have a 10G tank with 2.5 inches of substrate, I used a mixture of garden soil, sand, volcanic soil, clay and I topped it with river stones, I separated de stones from the rest of the substrate with a mesh. The tank sat with a couple plants for several months. After a while the plants were not doing well so I decided to remove the mesh and plant some new plants deeper into the substrate. While I was doing so some bubbles came out. I saw the plants were looking better but after a couple days my cherry shrimp began clumping on a corner and they weren’t eating much. Then I began to notice the dead shrimp. I did several things and now they seem better, I kept them with cardinal tetras(which were unaffected as far as I could tell) As anyone heard about / seen something like this? How does this type of poisoning occur?
Hey! This is great! Thank you soso much, your video helped a lot. But i'm more concerned about my plants. I recently detected some smelly gases when i moved my decorations around. When i took them out they smelled pretty bad at the bottom (big stones and bog wood). Also some of my plants roots where black on the tips, some roots even were completely black, I don't think they where rotten though. But i cut them off because i panicked. I use a fertile soil beneath my sand (0,4 - 1 mm granulation) and i'm scared somehow it's rotting beneath the sand and will eventually kill my plants. Do i have to fear that? I poked around in some other areas of my tank and small bubbles came up but they didn't smell. Only the areas under the decorations and the decorations itself and the black roots smelled badly...
So, in a deep sand or substrate aquarium how does the anarobic area gets the water circulated to eat the nitrate? I see the pockets in my deep substrate and even see the bubbles come up from time to time.
juan longbow cause there is water flow through the ware even though their may be little to no oxygen in the water any longer. The flow will be reduced due to compaction of the substrate ate it gets deeper but it will not stop the water only slow it down and by slowing it down it reduces the oxygen. Oxygen doesn’t want to be in water it’s always trying to gas out of it. The longer it takes to get to the bottom the less there is. A typical well oxygenated tank will have 5-6 parts dissolved o2 at the surface.. at the top of the substrate this will be only 4-5 parts. As the water moves the fish plants etc use it plus as I mentioned it’s always trying to float up and out (hence evaporation) evaporation is nothing more then oxygen gassing out of the water. As the water flows down it gets drag from water pressure this slows and reduces the o2. Once it hits a physical barrier it has to go around like sand and rock at the bottom it creates more drag and hence slows down the flow even further. Once it starts entering the substrate the anaerobic bacteria start feeding like crazy using up 4.5 parts dissolved oxygen which at this point could be all or most of what’s left. All this versus some by dissolved o2 of water column, depth of tank, depth of substrate and density of substrate. For example a 12” deep tank would need say 5” sand or 10” of gravel where as a 20” deep tank might only need 2” sand or 4” of gravel.
You say that h2s react with O2 to form sulfate. But isnt sulfate SO4? I have been searcing and found out that H2S and oxygen forms SO2? What is the difference?
@@Jaysaquarium No problem, I just started with a reef thank and I like youre good explanation. I read a lot on Sulphur denitrators but I am not sure how safe they are?
i have a question here when you neutralize the H2S by providing O2 you also neutralize the anaerobic bacteria to do it job by convert the NO3 to N2 because you provide O2 and that bacteria will use that O2 and will not use the NO3 so what is the way to neutralize the H2S without effecting the anaerobic bacteria job ?
I think you are misunderstanding something. When you have a deep substrate the anoxic areas will not be affected that much by providing more O2 to the aquarium, because by the time the water circulation hits the anoxic area there wouldn't be left much O2 - used up by passing through the aerobic zone. The H2S has to penetrate the aerobic zone (using O2) to get to the surface of the water and by doing this it is converted back to SO4.
first of all Thank you Jay for these enormous lessons. here is my problem: U said when the H2s reaches the O2 through the substrate, it turns into s04 that smells bad , and after that(on the next page) u said if we smell so4 we should add more air stone ,but then what will happen to the So4 ? Thanks in advance
Parsa Fatehnia watch the video again he say that sulfate bacteria will convert the SO4 in water in the substrate to H2S and that H2S has bad smell he did not say that SO4 has bad smell . now the H2S is the bad guy with nasty egg rot smell but if there is O2 the H2S will convent to SO4 that mean it is cycle SO4 + C + BACTERIA = H2S now H2S + O2 = SO4 and so on and that will happen if there are source of carbon in water
You can vacuum unsightly detritus off the top of your gravel but if you vacuum the gravel itself you will introduce oxygen to the lower levels and kill your bacteria. Detritus itself is harmless it just looks really bad. The harmful chemicals from the detritus has already dissolved into the water column and eaten by your nitrifying bacteria. At this point cleaning detritus is a cosmetic issue.
Thanks Jay! I am setting up a deep sand bed for my marine aquarium and this H2S myth has been bordering me since day. I was wondering where did you get this knowledge? Do you work in waste control?
Its great to have people like you clearing up myths! I read of a comment mentioning H2S needing some sort of catalyst to be converted to SO4. Not really sure how accurate is that, does that apply to aquariums too?
No. It is true if you are doing organic chemistry with nothing but the reagents in the water. but it does not apply in a aquarium setting with tons of impurities and living creatures in the water
interesting topic, its a real coincidence cos I recently think about it, then if hydrogen sulf comes to main tank that has aerator then it will be neutralize and cant do any harm to fish even the rotten egg comes up ?
SH2 to SO4 isn't a very efficient reaction without a catalyst metal of some sort though. Why do you believe that it would be enough in this scenario? Simply because of how little SH2 is being produced?
reichrunner1 remember he’s using a baked clay substrate... high iron content. Sand have high silica or aluminum content. Long as you use a natural substrate there will be plenty of metals for this reaction.
reichrunner1 this is a very proven issue. You need oxidized metal for the reaction that’s it. Now it’s more efficient with heavier metals yes.. but that doesn’t make it any less with others. What you are trying to say is that a Prius is a better all around vehicle cause it gets 60mpg when really all you need to do is get to work 1 mile away and a bicycle will do all the same. In the system being implemented and the method being used.. any oxidizing metal will work as the catalyst. It may only take 1g of platinum or it may take 10g of iron.. both are minuscule amounts in an aquarium substrate so the entire point is mute. Even more so since most tap water being used to fill most freshwater aquariums contains enough iron from the start as long as carbon like filtration isn’t used. Tbh the entire basis of a dsb is better performed over a plenum which completely eliminates this issue all together anyways while still allowing for anoxic conditions but never achieving full anaerobic. Everyone is always dancing around the issue and never understanding why in nature this isn’t a problem.. it’s because substrate isn’t sitting on top of a piece of glass in nature. Elevate the substrate off the glass and you’ll have proper flow through any deep bed substance and eliminate this issue entirely. Ever wonder why old timers swear by undergravel filters? Cause they run deep gravel beds and the gravel plates elevate the substrate off the glass but the depth still allows for o2 depletion without have 0 o2 allowing for hydrogen sulfate to even form in the first place. The problem has never been the substrate or its depth it’s always been the tank bottom it’s sitting on.
I'm not sure I get everything you were saying about the undergravel filters, but from my current understanding would using a thin layer of gravel or other perforated structure under my substrate help create flow without negating anoxic conditions so long as I had adequate depth, thus it could filter the water more effectively? Is this what you are saying? I am new to this but plan on creating a paludarium. If my water line were about 10 - 12" deep, and perhaps 24" wide x 15" deep, how much substrate depth would be ideal, and conversely for the gravel base layer? Just looking for a rough estimate as I may change my layout. Any rules to follow? It sounds like you know what you are talking about and I respect that. I plan on using sand and even some biohome in my substrate to assist. I also plan on adding a good amount of plants as well as shrimp and other cleaning crews members that can turn the sand a bit.
another question: is it necessary to add "under gravel filter plates" in order to help Anaerobic zones to do their work better ? specially Im looking for the right answer in shrimp tank ! Thanks again :)
No, the under gravel plenums allow water to pass thru your substrate and there for does not create an anaerobic environment. Under gravel filters covered with a shallow layer of substrate is the typical way it is used..
Yes but don’t use the filtration aspect. Holding the substrate off the bottom helps water flow through the bottom. Ideally substrate should never sit in the glass and there should always be a void. It’s called a plenum in this aspect allowing anoxic conditions but preventing anaerobic conditions which allows nitrate bacteria like heterotrophs that live in this region to develop instead of anaerobic ones which will create h2s. It’s how you hedge your bet. If you see h2s pockets develop you can always use a very low flow and air stone in uplift tube just tall enough to get above substrate to induce more flow and thus little more oxygen to convert back anoxic from anaerobic zones. With substrate diggers this is really what I recommend for deep beds.
65 gallon planted fresh water with a 1" plenum w/ Bio Balls under 2-3 inches of an Oil-Dri/Carib Sea Eco Complete (3:1 mix) substrate. Lightly planted, 11 fish. Very low maintenance (I love the hobby but I won't be a slave to it!) and tested regularly and after 17 months I have to say it's been pretty stable. It's always carried a slightly higher phosphate number than I'd like, 25-40, and up until the past couple weeks has had pH of around 8 until I started with CO2. Now it's down in the lower 7's. Everyone seems happy and healthy, and I'm definitely not a biologist so that's about all I can offer. (Also have a 6 gallon Edge tank going with a plenum (a converted underground filter) and about 1-/12" of the same substrate. It also is doing well with some shrimp, respora, snails, and one tiny pleco I haven't seen in weeks.)
Hey Jay, this guy posted a concern about creating an anoxic zone in his tank. He said he could smell rotten egg odor. Is there a smell with your method?
I do a light gravel vac about once a year. A deep and strong gravel vac can: temporarily introduce lots of oxygen into the substrate (halting denitrification for a while) and release hydrogen sulfide in bulk rather than letting them come out slow and steady. I think gravel vac is fine as long as you don't overdo it.
+You are a dream come true! I can finally understand this chemical stuff. I can't believe it. Please, please, don't be a dream that disappears. I am hoping that what you are explaining is correct. Others seem to have tried and then been shot down for small inconsistencies or inaccuracies. I see no thumbs down on this info. so maybe you are the aquarium guru we've been searching for. praise God.
This makes perfect sense this video should be bookmarked by many.
I assembled a 10 gallon tank with 6 inch Substrate and the water is crystal clear and my Endlers are happy!. Despite no water changes and daily feeding for 2 months! I wish there were more videos like this spreading the amazing filtering capacity of a deep substrate.
Omg... why youtube recomend me this video just now. what you say on this vid 100% meat and easy to understand as a visual learner
Excellent videos !! You have a gift for teaching.
Probably the one who worth the title of "The master of all aquarium sifus"
I have been searching for this since i started the hobby (a week ago hehe) I needed someone who knows a bit about chemicals and shit to explain to me all this water madness
Top explanation. Glad I found the video, plan on doing one myself. Heard conflicting stories about this around 4 years ago, decided to experiment with a deep sand substrate in an African Cichlid tank, 4 years in, no problems at all....and lower nitrates than I would have otherwise expected with the new maintenance regimen. Glad to see someone explain this technique, not nearly widely used enough in the hobby in my opinion. New sub from Australia. 👍
Do you do just sand only or did you use other substrates with it?
In nature, benthic communities, including riverine mud, have invertebrates recorded living up to 9 metres deep (according to a scholar at my old uni). We never measured H2S levels in anoxic conditions such as peat bogs, but my suspicion is that the presence of these gas pockets is not as widespread in nature as is thought, and geomorphic processes are the primary sources that release these gases into the atmosphere. The idea that these gases could form in a foot of substrate is in my mind highly unlikely. So I loved your video.
If you can’t explain something simply then you don’t understand it good enough
You definitely know enough
This video was so helpful! I know its old, but thank you! I have a question if possible.. what if bubbles that have the slight sulfur smell come in contact with your fish? Like they swim through it when it happens?
Hello Jay, finally I applied my new tank with your concept. My tank 9 x 3.4 x 2 meters. And I use 60cm thick silica sands.
that is a massive tank :)
@@Jaysaquarium yea, and thanks to you. I really grateful you make this channel
A WHAT 9 meters?!?! Wow. That's massive, like those tanks you see on aquarium exhibits... amazing
I think you smell it if you walk in a muddy mangrove patch..... It's natures way of keeping the sea clean :) .... And the same way we can keep aquariums clean.
Hi and thank you for the video. I may have exactly this problem with my walstad tank I set up 2 weeks ago. Most plants rot from the bottom up. Limnophila sessiliflora grew all the way to the surface within 10 days or so and then started to float because the roots rotted. No animals added yet, though I wanted to add shrimps and snails this week. If I add an airstone to prevent H2S in the water column, how will it change the chemical climate in the substrate to stop my plants rot?
Great explanations!
Awsome video good teacher made it crystal clear
Fantastic info.
really appreciate you analysises ....thanx for sharing all those episodes ;-)
So i just let the tank ride along if theres a strong sulfur rotten smell? My tank gets oxygen through wavemaker and outputs of filters. Found out my substrate is the culprit for the smell and i was gonna take it out and clean it out
Jay
. we uses Photosynthetic Bacteria in RAS to neutralize H2S and clean the water
. for Biofloc system, we heavily aerate the tank plus PSB... ammonia is reduce drastically plus no trace of H2S
im not surprised u got 0 dislikes on this and other vids of that series , I'm watching them now
I have followed your advice, a little bit more then planned, and my sand is turning black.
The internet freaked me out about this (As its a sign of H2S), so I watched this video again to calm myself down. I'll just add more Trumpet Snails, and have an airstone on standby for if I smell gas.
From what I can tell the same thing happened in your 10 month Deep Substrate only tank eventually. And so I won't panic and carry on calmly.
Yep substrate blackening is to be expected
Does the substrate have to be mud or sand? I'm going to utilize the low flow section of a new sump I purchased and putting a big 4 inch thick marinepure block there...I'm further going to cover it completely with crushed coral because it helps buffer pH. I am just hoping that a covered bio block will be able to create the anaerobic zone successfully so that nitrate reduction happens.
I always use DIY substrate made of clay, worm castings and a little bit of peat, 2cm of DIY substrate and 3cm of gravel to cover it, but now I want to try 5cm of DIY substrate and 5cm of gravel, but not I know if I am going to have problems with the substrate in the anoxic zone. i have a lot of plant, and maybe the roots can hel in that way what do you think, do you have any experience using diy substrate in planted aquarium,
Never tried clay. Dirt works fine. I also use worm castings in my dirted tanks.
The deep anoxic substrate can also mix with iron III oxide to neutralize the H2S.
Tx. That's significant to us who have deep substrate tanks and live on well water.
Source?
Best explanation ever! Kudos!
How does SO4 comes in the water in the first place?
What if we have Malaysian trumpet snails in a deep substrate tank ?
Would it work bcoz these snails go deep into the substrate in the day n come out at night ?
Will These snails fail this system or be a benefit to it ?
Great videos! Very useful information and I am setting up a 40 gallon to try this. One question, how do you account for total dissolved solids accumulating?
Jay, PLEASE ANSWER this!!! Say I were to have ONE fish (12 in) in a 100gal bare bottom tank. In this tank I would have 1,000+ gal/hr of filtration. Knowing that these filters will only remove ammonia and nitrite, I would add a bunch of pothos, bamboo, etc. Could this turn this tank into a no water change tank? NOTE: I would also be feeding moderately once a day.
After ALL these Episodes do you have a stepbystep vídeo where tô build a no changewater vídeo?
Should make one
If you will allow me to dumb it down: Don't let tanks get stagnant.
If you have deep substrate, make sure you have plants. If you're still having a problem (or you don't want plants), consider the following: airstone, trumpet snails, different type of substrate.
Hi Jay. Will adding a sulfur reactor to a freshwater tank work to get rid of nitrates?
Goal is a no water change.
No idea never used one
Hi Jay, I have a deep-substrate aquarium in my bed room for a month.
I smell H2S occasionally. My window is always open, which it takes about 10-40s for the smell to fade. So far no livingstock have died, everything looks healthy, so I'm not quite worry about the aquarium from how you have explained in this video.
My question is, does the H2S harm me? = ="
Because I have set the tank in my bed room, and I can smell it quite often= =" The H2S bubbles pop up into surface from the deep-substrate, sometimes big and sometimes small in which it takes longer or shorter to fade in the room.
Of course, while it don't kill the fish it shouldn't kill me as well. I mean I haven't been toxic reaction so far, if so I won't be asking silly here. But I can just smell the H2S quite often. (Personally)the sense is quite strong when the bigger bubbles pops.
It is not likely 10ppm I guess. But still I want to ask is it a caution or chronic? I can't find much information from googling.
Sorry for this long question= =". I have no chemistry or science background, just came to be a hobbies wanted an aquarium in the bed room. and suddenly worrying about killing myself HAHAHAHA~~
yes it is harmful. try more aeration and less feeding. you shouldn't be smelling h2s on a regular basis
Thanks very much for beginner
So here’s the thing… I have a 10G tank with 2.5 inches of substrate, I used a mixture of garden soil, sand, volcanic soil, clay and I topped it with river stones, I separated de stones from the rest of the substrate with a mesh.
The tank sat with a couple plants for several months.
After a while the plants were not doing well so I decided to remove the mesh and plant some new plants deeper into the substrate. While I was doing so some bubbles came out.
I saw the plants were looking better but after a couple days my cherry shrimp began clumping on a corner and they weren’t eating much.
Then I began to notice the dead shrimp.
I did several things and now they seem better, I kept them with cardinal tetras(which were unaffected as far as I could tell)
As anyone heard about / seen something like this?
How does this type of poisoning occur?
What is carbonfood?
Thank you so much for your help!
Hey! This is great! Thank you soso much, your video helped a lot. But i'm more concerned about my plants. I recently detected some smelly gases when i moved my decorations around. When i took them out they smelled pretty bad at the bottom (big stones and bog wood). Also some of my plants roots where black on the tips, some roots even were completely black, I don't think they where rotten though. But i cut them off because i panicked. I use a fertile soil beneath my sand (0,4 - 1 mm granulation) and i'm scared somehow it's rotting beneath the sand and will eventually kill my plants. Do i have to fear that? I poked around in some other areas of my tank and small bubbles came up but they didn't smell. Only the areas under the decorations and the decorations itself and the black roots smelled badly...
Mia Smogy plants oxygenate the soil around Thier roots. You will not have anoxic area directly around them for this reason.
So, in a deep sand or substrate aquarium how does the anarobic area gets the water circulated to eat the nitrate? I see the pockets in my deep substrate and even see the bubbles come up from time to time.
juan longbow cause there is water flow through the ware even though their may be little to no oxygen in the water any longer. The flow will be reduced due to compaction of the substrate ate it gets deeper but it will not stop the water only slow it down and by slowing it down it reduces the oxygen. Oxygen doesn’t want to be in water it’s always trying to gas out of it. The longer it takes to get to the bottom the less there is. A typical well oxygenated tank will have 5-6 parts dissolved o2 at the surface.. at the top of the substrate this will be only 4-5 parts. As the water moves the fish plants etc use it plus as I mentioned it’s always trying to float up and out (hence evaporation) evaporation is nothing more then oxygen gassing out of the water. As the water flows down it gets drag from water pressure this slows and reduces the o2. Once it hits a physical barrier it has to go around like sand and rock at the bottom it creates more drag and hence slows down the flow even further. Once it starts entering the substrate the anaerobic bacteria start feeding like crazy using up 4.5 parts dissolved oxygen which at this point could be all or most of what’s left.
All this versus some by dissolved o2 of water column, depth of tank, depth of substrate and density of substrate. For example a 12” deep tank would need say 5” sand or 10” of gravel where as a 20” deep tank might only need 2” sand or 4” of gravel.
You say that h2s react with O2 to form sulfate. But isnt sulfate SO4?
I have been searcing and found out that H2S and oxygen forms SO2?
What is the difference?
What if H2S is produced by a Sulphur nitrate reactor for a sea-aquarium?
Because in such a reactor we create on purpose a no oxygen zone.
I dont do reef tanks. Sorry.
@@Jaysaquarium No problem, I just started with a reef thank and I like youre good explanation.
I read a lot on Sulphur denitrators but I am not sure how safe they are?
i have a question here when you neutralize the H2S by providing O2 you also neutralize the anaerobic bacteria to do it job by convert the NO3 to N2 because you provide O2 and that bacteria will use that O2 and will not use the NO3 so what is the way to neutralize the H2S without effecting the anaerobic bacteria job ?
I think you are misunderstanding something. When you have a deep substrate the anoxic areas will not be affected that much by providing more O2 to the aquarium, because by the time the water circulation hits the anoxic area there wouldn't be left much O2 - used up by passing through the aerobic zone. The H2S has to penetrate the aerobic zone (using O2) to get to the surface of the water and by doing this it is converted back to SO4.
From INDIA
Please tell me
how to separate N² And H²s from the aquarium without forming NO³ and SO⁴?
first of all Thank you Jay for these enormous lessons.
here is my problem:
U said when the H2s reaches the O2 through the substrate, it turns into s04 that smells bad , and after that(on the next page) u said if we smell so4 we should add more air stone ,but then what will happen to the So4 ?
Thanks in advance
Parsa Fatehnia watch the video again he say that sulfate bacteria will convert the SO4 in water in the substrate to H2S and that H2S has bad smell he did not say that SO4 has bad smell . now the H2S is the bad guy with nasty egg rot smell but if there is O2 the H2S will convent to SO4 that mean it is cycle SO4 + C + BACTERIA = H2S now H2S + O2 = SO4 and so on and that will happen if there are source of carbon in water
is this for reef tank?
Hi,
If this is no water change setup then there is no need to clean the substrate?
You can vacuum unsightly detritus off the top of your gravel but if you vacuum the gravel itself you will introduce oxygen to the lower levels and kill your bacteria. Detritus itself is harmless it just looks really bad. The harmful chemicals from the detritus has already dissolved into the water column and eaten by your nitrifying bacteria. At this point cleaning detritus is a cosmetic issue.
Thanks Jay! I am setting up a deep sand bed for my marine aquarium and this H2S myth has been bordering me since day. I was wondering where did you get this knowledge? Do you work in waste control?
I majored biology in college. I don't work in science now but I probably have a better than average understanding of science
Its great to have people like you clearing up myths! I read of a comment mentioning H2S needing some sort of catalyst to be converted to SO4. Not really sure how accurate is that, does that apply to aquariums too?
No. It is true if you are doing organic chemistry with nothing but the reagents in the water. but it does not apply in a aquarium setting with tons of impurities and living creatures in the water
interesting topic, its a real coincidence cos I recently think about it, then if hydrogen sulf comes to main tank that has aerator then it will be neutralize and cant do any harm to fish even the rotten egg comes up ?
SH2 to SO4 isn't a very efficient reaction without a catalyst metal of some sort though. Why do you believe that it would be enough in this scenario? Simply because of how little SH2 is being produced?
reichrunner1 remember he’s using a baked clay substrate... high iron content. Sand have high silica or aluminum content. Long as you use a natural substrate there will be plenty of metals for this reaction.
Usually these kinds of reactions require a platinum catalyst or the like. Iron or aluminum isn't likely to cut it
reichrunner1 this is a very proven issue. You need oxidized metal for the reaction that’s it. Now it’s more efficient with heavier metals yes.. but that doesn’t make it any less with others. What you are trying to say is that a Prius is a better all around vehicle cause it gets 60mpg when really all you need to do is get to work 1 mile away and a bicycle will do all the same. In the system being implemented and the method being used.. any oxidizing metal will work as the catalyst. It may only take 1g of platinum or it may take 10g of iron.. both are minuscule amounts in an aquarium substrate so the entire point is mute. Even more so since most tap water being used to fill most freshwater aquariums contains enough iron from the start as long as carbon like filtration isn’t used.
Tbh the entire basis of a dsb is better performed over a plenum which completely eliminates this issue all together anyways while still allowing for anoxic conditions but never achieving full anaerobic. Everyone is always dancing around the issue and never understanding why in nature this isn’t a problem.. it’s because substrate isn’t sitting on top of a piece of glass in nature. Elevate the substrate off the glass and you’ll have proper flow through any deep bed substance and eliminate this issue entirely. Ever wonder why old timers swear by undergravel filters? Cause they run deep gravel beds and the gravel plates elevate the substrate off the glass but the depth still allows for o2 depletion without have 0 o2 allowing for hydrogen sulfate to even form in the first place. The problem has never been the substrate or its depth it’s always been the tank bottom it’s sitting on.
I'm not sure I get everything you were saying about the undergravel filters, but from my current understanding would using a thin layer of gravel or other perforated structure under my substrate help create flow without negating anoxic conditions so long as I had adequate depth, thus it could filter the water more effectively? Is this what you are saying? I am new to this but plan on creating a paludarium. If my water line were about 10 - 12" deep, and perhaps 24" wide x 15" deep, how much substrate depth would be ideal, and conversely for the gravel base layer? Just looking for a rough estimate as I may change my layout. Any rules to follow? It sounds like you know what you are talking about and I respect that. I plan on using sand and even some biohome in my substrate to assist. I also plan on adding a good amount of plants as well as shrimp and other cleaning crews members that can turn the sand a bit.
another question:
is it necessary to add "under gravel filter plates" in order to help Anaerobic zones to do their work better ? specially Im looking for the right answer in shrimp tank !
Thanks again :)
Parsa Fatehnia Get some sand aswell, since it's more compact it will allow less o2 to reach futher down
No, the under gravel plenums allow water to pass thru your substrate and there for does not create an anaerobic environment. Under gravel filters covered with a shallow layer of substrate is the typical way it is used..
Yes but don’t use the filtration aspect. Holding the substrate off the bottom helps water flow through the bottom. Ideally substrate should never sit in the glass and there should always be a void. It’s called a plenum in this aspect allowing anoxic conditions but preventing anaerobic conditions which allows nitrate bacteria like heterotrophs that live in this region to develop instead of anaerobic ones which will create h2s. It’s how you hedge your bet. If you see h2s pockets develop you can always use a very low flow and air stone in uplift tube just tall enough to get above substrate to induce more flow and thus little more oxygen to convert back anoxic from anaerobic zones. With substrate diggers this is really what I recommend for deep beds.
Please comment people who have tried this out? What has your experience been thus far?
65 gallon planted fresh water with a 1" plenum w/ Bio Balls under 2-3 inches of an Oil-Dri/Carib Sea Eco Complete (3:1 mix) substrate. Lightly planted, 11 fish. Very low maintenance (I love the hobby but I won't be a slave to it!) and tested regularly and after 17 months I have to say it's been pretty stable. It's always carried a slightly higher phosphate number than I'd like, 25-40, and up until the past couple weeks has had pH of around 8 until I started with CO2. Now it's down in the lower 7's. Everyone seems happy and healthy, and I'm definitely not a biologist so that's about all I can offer.
(Also have a 6 gallon Edge tank going with a plenum (a converted underground filter) and about 1-/12" of the same substrate. It also is doing well with some shrimp, respora, snails, and one tiny pleco I haven't seen in weeks.)
Suuuuper good video! Now i know!
Hey Jay, this guy posted a concern about creating an anoxic zone in his tank. He said he could smell rotten egg odor. Is there a smell with your method?
did you not watch the whole video? he explains that in the video
You figured out the big lie. It is obvious that aquarium product makers know this but we are not supposed to
They say air stone dont do squat, just adgitate the surfice water and thats how O2 is introduced /
My question on previous video i think is answered here 😁
Awesome! Loving this series😁 do suggest not to do deep gravel vacs? Or stirring up the substrate?
I do a light gravel vac about once a year. A deep and strong gravel vac can: temporarily introduce lots of oxygen into the substrate (halting denitrification for a while) and release hydrogen sulfide in bulk rather than letting them come out slow and steady. I think gravel vac is fine as long as you don't overdo it.
Jay's aquarium thanks for that great reply! Have a great week!
How many inches of pool filter Sand should I put minium for a deep Sand bed?
3~4