I liked the sound of your original pickups better than the throbak ones, as they sounded darker and flatter with less character and high frequency transient peaks.
The originals sounded better to me, the Throwbacks seem slightly hotter and I didn't like the way the low frequencies interacted; but its hard to tell with the YT audio compression.
I agree! The original pickups had more clarity and chime. The throbaks sounded like the strings had a hair tie back on the strings choking the top end.
Usually these type of things delve into “cork sniffer” territory but, as I’m folding laundry and have nothing better to do than shut up and listen, after a number of the “both pickup” examples went by I was semi-shocked at the realization that YES the Throbak critters DID complement each other and not “compete” with one another. I’m almost in the same situation as yourself as I have an Edwards example with the Page wiring setup. I’m quite happy with the pickups but, I’m in need of a neck reset and want to replace the bridge, thumbscrews and tailpiece with more period correct components (brass thumbscrews etc) As always, I show up for the “check up from the neck up” for the phrasing reminders. You have a lovely sense of implying breathing, which of course most guitarists are guilty of the “never ending lung capacity” phenomenon. Thanks for the inspiration from Tennessee.
Dude… the Dry Z and Wizz combo sound SIGNIFICANTLY better. Like, it’s extremely apparent to me, at least via this TH-cam video. It’s kind of night and day, to be honest. The Throbacks are less dynamic and have less range, to my ears at least.
As far as the sound coming off the TH-cam video is concerned - I totally agree with you. The Throbacks sound woolly and uninspiring to my ears. Maybe it sounded different in the room??
For my taste, to be brutally honest, the Throbacks sounded muddy compared to the old ones, which had more bite & clarity to me. Having said that, they all sounded good, especially in your hands Chris.
I perceived the same thing. “Preferred” tone is something very subjective and I can see why Chris would like the more “woodsy” character of the Throbacks, but for my ears, the best tones I heard were coming out of the Wizz. Regardless, Mr. Buck can make a broom handle with a pair of magnets and some chicken wire sound amazing.
I have to say- - while they are both very good - to me I thought the dry-z / whiz setup was a bit better- especially if clarity was what you are after.
Exactly what I was thinking! One of the craziest and most expressive players I’ve seen. I can only hope some of it rubs off onto me! Everything he does sounds inspired. And to me that’s where it’s at
I've been down this road with many early 80's Japanese copy guitars. For the hardware go with the Faber metric ABR-1 bridge w/ the nickel plated brass thumbwheels and the Faber aluminum tailpiece. But, you may not actually need to change your tailpiece if it is already aluminum. If the tailpiece weighs around 25-32 grams & isn't magnetic then you are good to leave it in place. You also need to put a magnet to your tailpiece bushings and studs to make sure they are steel and not zinc or brass. If they are not steel they won't be magnetic & you should definitely change them out for more accurate Faber steel bushings/studs. Another thing that you may or may not want to get into is the bridge posts. Most likely what you have in the guitar are steel, but the originals used nickel plated brass. There are no metric sized brass posts available so you can either plug the holes and retap for imperial sized brass posts or you can buy a metric plain brass rod with the correct threads and cut your own. I did the latter. The post change is extremely subtle though and might not be worth getting into unless you just enjoy tinkering. I've gone back and forth in a few guitars between steel and brass and overall preferred brass BUT it's not a big enough difference to warrant the effort for most people. Nobody makes dead accurate copies of the vintage hardware these days. Faber is the closest but it's still a different ratio of metals and sizes compared to the originals. 8 Bomb Custom is working on recreating the original hardware composition but they aren't going to be done anytime soon. Also, those might not end up being available in metric sizes. Good luck man. In the end, you probably can make some subtle improvements but don't expect it to fully match an original.
@@neve4020 The SD Pickups videos? The changes definitely make an improvement. I've done these mods to 4 high end Japanese replicas from the lawsuit era. They all sound great especially with ReWind Pickups or Dry Z's but none of them compare to my '53 Goldtop. A good original is an extra 5-10% that you just can't get elsewhere.
Nickel-plated brass-- this is a thing with Strats, too, that few people talk about. True vintage Kluson tuners have nickel-plated brass posts and brass internals, and this changes the tone slightly. These are available for Gibsons and Fenders from Montreaux Japan, and the Gotoh 510 unstaggered Klusons have brass posts (but not the washer inside). Also-- and not that it matters much unless you are a total geek-- unlike virtually all modern ones, the Strat jackplate on vintage instruments is chromed brass and not steel, which you can check with a magnet.
No high end on the Throbaks. Didn't sound as good on the clean tones but had a nice tone on the overdrive. The Wizz was super bright but cut through the mix in a way the others didn't. The Dry Z sounded good playing a clean tone or overdriven. Always enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work.
Every week, just the intros alone blow me away. The melody, technique, textures, sonics and emotion are superb. I could listen to Chris all day. America may have Vai, Satch, Bonamassa and Mayer but we in the UK however have the humble and soulful Buck and that’s just fine with me 😊 Keep up the great work Chris!
I agree, the Throbaks sound darker, muddier, less defined than the Wizz/Dry Z combination, more so than with the 300k pots in my opinion. Seem to have gone backwards with this sorry Chris.
Hi Chris - love the guitar playing, as always But.... Just looking at those videos comparing the pickup sets. the first thing you probably need to do is measure the string height about the pickups, before you make the swap, and then set the replacement pickups at the same height You have the throbak neck pickup (at least) a lot closer to the strings Look at the clips around about 8mins 50 in . The neck pickup of the original set is almost flush with the pickup surround, the throbak is a couple of mm up from that So perhaps one of the first changes you might have made is - rather than replace the pickups - set the heights of the pickups? Just a thought.....
I agree that having both the wizz and the dry z do have a sound of fighting each other, but overall i preferred the dry z to the throbaks and would try getting a second dry z if they arent too expensive
Can't wait to see the difference in changing the bridge and tailpiece. I've upgraded the pots and pickups in 2 of my Les Paul's that made incremental improvements. Not sure if the slight improvement in tone was worth the $$$.
At the risk of whacking a hornet’s nest, before swapping pickups, a cheaper and very effective way to fine tune pickups is with the volume/tone pots. Try different ones (generally 500k are used for humbuckers but if you want more or less treble you can use different ratings.) Also, 50s wiring will make a huge difference if you’re trying to get a more classic tone. People tend to go straight for a pickup swap but it isn’t always necessary. Plus its much cheaper to change pots and wiring.
The mystique of the fine details. I have found that with recording music, you can attain very interesting and good results from the most surprising sources, using cheap instruments very well for instance you don't always get a guaranteed better result from expense. I like the Wizz PU's
Good video!The 500K audio taper pots are the secret sauce that most people don't know about.All the '57s were 5000 turns on each coil,which was one of standards had to have to apply for the patent.From '57 to '60 the coils were wound by machines using timers.When the timer went off,they finished the coil.This is why all these pickups sound slightly different!Throbacks are a good choice they are put together in the same way.
So interesting each pickup has its own distinctive sound. The Z’s have a great clarity, but the Throwbaks have a gritty broad frequency sound with more overtones that are so great! If you’re still looking for more choices, try the Cream T Whiskerbucker pickups; totally incredible.
Had so many 80's guitars. At the end of the day I found the Tim shaws to be closest to a PAF a lot more so than my DRY Z's and Dry 82s but I found so much depends on the body wood. It has to be old light dry Honduran IMO. It has a clarinet like mid range that no other wood has especially African hog.
Chris, to my ears it seemed that you are on to a winner with the original pickups - the new ones made some difference, but I preferred the old ones. The bridge and neck sounds contrast more with each other in the old set, but in a good way I think.
To add to my earlier comment about pickups heights, Gibson recommend pressing the string down at the last fret, and then setting the distance from the string to the pickup of 3/32 inch between neck pickup and strings and 1/16 inch between bridge pickup and strings I think Guitarist Magazine, for whom you were asked to play those original '59 bursts use those measurements as a "standard", too
Thanks, Chris. I'm a huge fan and always enjoy your comparisons. Impeccably fair. There are always so many variables, even when changing out only one component at a time. I asked Heritage to make a Les Paul style and put in ThroBak KZ115 pickups. It sounds great but probably because it went straight to a brilliant tech who set it up according to his decades of experience. So I guess this is a shout out to great techs, who are truly indispensable. Cheers, Chris.
I agree with BLD Lightpainting. I was amazed how much like an acoustic the originals sounded in the middle postion. An electric being able to emulate the sound of an acoustic makes a guitar very versatile. That's why my main guitar is a Music Man JP15 with the Fishman transducer pickups. The Dimarzio pickups in the JP15 can not do what the pickups in Chris's Greco can. The Z and Wizz were more open and articulate. The Throbacks had more mids (or less highs) and had that "blanket over the speaker cabinet" sound. For me that was a downgrade and actaully made me go search Reverb for a set of Dry Zs. I'm actually quite shocked. Oh, BTW, amazing playing as always, Chris.
This is the kind of experiment I wanted to see for a while as I always get confused with so many pickups out there, yes, my ears are not so trained but videos like this educates me, so thank you Chris. I miss my Les Paul Special but now I’m getting into guitar again with a nice Revstar.
I heard the same thing as you Chris. They sound “woodier” or more “dry” and “papery” (that’s what I call the P90 quality in the mids) however, the top end is rolled off somewhat on the TBs compared to the previous pickups. Maybe you can add it back in the amp.
The bridge, saddle shape, aluminum tailpiece and the POSTS will make an insane difference towards the burst sound. You need to look into a four uncles bridge 1st choice, or a faber bridge 2nd choice.
I was very surprised that the Throbaks didn’t sound brighter. They also seemed slightly quieter, but did have a character that to my ears seemed quite authentic and desirable. I put Pete Thorn, Suhr Thornbucker PAF’s in my 2017 LP Standard with a 21 Tone Jimmy Page wiring kit from Jonesy Blues and it’s sounds incredible! Closest tone I’ve heard to an original Paul from the 50’s-60’s era. Great playing as usual and nice thorough comparison. Thanks Chris.
Hiya Chriss I have a 58 replical Gibson Lp, I have the 50s wiring which puts the tone pots after the volume in the signal and i fitted paper in oil capacitors 0015mf neck and 022mf bridge, transformed the guitar it now blooms like it should. Good luck Ian
You can definitely hear that the p'ups that were in the guitar aren't a matched set, as Chris said. However, to my ear at least the guitar had much more character and clarity before the Throbaks were added. It sounds more generic now. Incredible playing, as always.
Through the entirety of the pickup comparison, I was thinking exactly what you said about there being a definite woody texture to the sound. I completely agree with your summary.
Also Faber makes conversion bridges that sound great and really close to vintage. Warm and clear with plenty of sustain and vibration. Also worth a consideration in my opinion.
It's the DryZ and Wizz for me. The Throbaks would have me messing with the amp for a bit more clarity. Some things in life need no messing with at all. Your playing is so stellar and intoxicating that any slight change in tone is not noticed. (We're both watching and listening.) And while we're at it ... someone needs to get on Yamaha's ass, I (need) a gold top revstar with p90's. Your guitar needs to be available to all.
The comparison of these pickups was informative and gives options to upgrading pickups in an Epi or Gibson Les Paul and definately a noticeable change in to tonality. Thanks for sharing!
The Dry Zs, hands down, were the best replication of the original PAF tone (and apparently are priced accordingly), but the combination of the Dry Z and the Wizz was interesting, because the Wizz has a lot more “bite” to it 🙂.
I am still blown away with how good the Mojotone 59 Clones PAF’s sound. I have the Hot bridge set in my 60th Anniversary R9. Absolutely killed the stock Custombuckers. They’re also relatively inexpensive compared to the boutique brands out there.
I love mine too! Im shocked at how they fly under the radar. No shootouts on youtube either. Im guessing they’d compete well with any other PAF replicas.
The ThroBacks are well balanced individually and as a pair. While smoother and not as forward/aggressive sounding as the Dry Z and Wizz, I appreciate the natural response and refined clarity of the ThroBaks.
Ive changed out the tailpiece anchors, studs, bridge posts and bridge on both of my Greco super Reals to vintage correct materials and lengths. I have to say it made a bigger difference than the myriad of pickup swaps I’ve done in both guitars. It took some surgery, but I found it well worth it.
another great thing to do is the 50s wiring and instead of using .22 caps go to .15 . It give you much greater sweep on the neck pup and when using both pups its easier to balance them.
The Throbacks did sound darker, but we all have to know that the AMP settings also have a say in what the sound comes out as well as the tone and volume controls on the guitar are set at. Plus the resonance of the guitar itself. Putting in time with the overall setup with tweaks here and there will bring out the true nature of the guitar and pickups.
Another great Chris Buck video. He is an amazing player. I have been a subscriber for the past year and he has taught me a lot. That Granger Burst Les Paul is like Stradivarius
Great video. 3 great sounds. At the end of the day, I’m so glad I put MoJo tone 59’ Clone pickups with the Mojo Tone wiring harness with bumblebee caps.
I put Monty's paf replicas in my Les Paul along with a 50s wiring harness from 920d custom and it went from being my least favorite guitar to one of my favorites!
The Greco is the sleeper... I have a 1980 as well and it's mind blowingly amazing. I love the dry z. The 1980 Tokai's are also absolute tone beasts, cheaper that the Super Real's and lovely in their own right, highly recommend. 1980 is a phenomenal year for Tokai and Greco.
I agree, the Throbacks sound more woody in that they appear to allow the natural resonance of the wood/guitar to shine through. I prefer the Throbacks albeit the original pups do sound brighter.
Great video! From the sound of it, I'd bet you have pot metal bridge saddles. Try a bridge with brass saddles like the vintage ABR-1 has. It will add that bit of sparkle on the top that I'll bet you are looking for. Swapping out the Nashville bridge with pot metal saddles for a Kluson with brass saddles made a noticeable difference on my Les Paul. Kluson is making great bridges and tailpieces now. They probably have one that fits your guitar.
I didn't read all the responses but like many others I also felt the dynamic of the older setup was better... but it's your guitar. You noted the differences, and I agree were "subtle" and I believe "woody" was an adjective... I might say mellow. If you feel you're moving in the right direction for the sound you heard and want to replicate than please keep going. Good luck with the bridge et al mods. Love your playing BTW
Great video. I changed the hardware on a couple of Gibson USA standards from the early 2000s to Faber aged nickel parts to look more vintage and was surprised by the improvement in tone. Much brighter, livelier and open sounding. More like vintage LP tones than darker 90s LP tones. They look great too.
Having been down the rabbit hole of chasing vintage Les Paul tone, and achieving it… There are several factors at play. Really, a tight neck joint, good glues, the right wood type and thin nitro is going to get you in the zone. Era correct woods are a plus but not necessary. The big factors: Saddles - Vintage ABR bridges had massive saddles and they DO make a difference. There are several companies making vintage style saddles for modern ABR bridges. Pickups - unpotted, machine-wound, thin nickel covers. Basically any good PAF clones, can try different winds to taste. A4 mags seem to be the “it” magnet in modern pickups. Hardware - Brass posts for the ABR, thin brass thumbwheels, aluminum stoptail and steel studs. Tuners matter, but not much. The Scale Length - this is HUGE and completely overlooked by Gibson. Luthiers used the Rule of 18 to calculate fret placement. Every fret is 1/18 the distance of the remaining scale length, and every fret location was calculated from the prior fret location. This could result in small imperfections and is laborious. Bridge placement was determined AFTER frets were placed. Key point: the scale length and bridge location on vintage Gibsons varies, but the scale is slightly SHORTER than modern LP’s and reissues. This translates to lower string tension, and a lower resonant frequency. In my opinion THIS is the single biggest factor affecting the tone. Great playing as always.
Only Richie Kotzen could play it like this without a pick…. Damn man!! Awesome beautiful phrasing and touch!!! Makes us all want to practice more!! Nice work young man!!
I really do believe that the electronics were what mattered then. It wasn't tone wood. Nothing was consistent back then. Some of the pickups were over or under wound. The wiring, pots and switches had more or less resistance. This all played a part in that Holy Grail sound. Did they use better or lesser quality parts? I love the Les Paul guitar. It has been my favorite for over 30 years.
I take the view that everything we've heard about the tonal advantages to using higher-resistance volume pots for humbuckers is true... *provided one always leaves the volume up full* . Once one starts frittering around with volume levels every ohm of pot resistance we take away, by turning down, is *added* to the impedance of the pickup/s, and loads the pickup down. This only-at-max-volume effect/advantage strikes me as precisely why Fender began using compensating caps on the volume pot, so that the nice treble preservation that occurred at full volume would be mostly preserved as one turned down.
Hi Mark - would a "treble-bleed" network (resistor & cap in parallel) across the vol pots do the same in a LP as the Fender? Assuming appropriate values... besides, if the vol pot is maxed (ie minimum to none resistance) what difference does the rated value of the pot make anyway? TIA
@@fredstevens799 Hi Fred - Yes and no. The treble bleed conserves top end as one turns the volume down and loads down the pickups. But what sort of top end does one start out with that merits conserving? HBs tend to have less of it. Maxing the volume pot provides least loading of the pickups, especially when used with longer cables. Think of the volume pot and cable capacitance as functioning like a lowpass filter. At max volume-pot setting, the "rolloff" of series-load+cable-capacitance is high enough that we normally don't hear it. As the cable-capacitance increases (longer cable or poorer-quality cable) and/or as the series load increases, that rolloff moves downward in frequency. We tend to notice it less with humbuckers than with single-coils because the latter start out with so much more top-end. As he saying goes: you can't miss what you never had. For those unfamiliar with the effects of cable capacitance, I always recommend the following experiment. Take the longest cables you have. If you have any true-bypass pedals, heck, connect a few in series, such that you're playing through a VERY long cable. Plug your guitar into the amp through that and strum. Now, take the shortest cable you have, that lets you physically accomplish this (e.g., a 6" patch cable), and plug your guitar straight into the amp through that. If one's hearing is intact, the difference should be quite audible. And that's with all guitar controls set to max. Naturally, it will be far more audible with SC pickups than with HBs. I've used an "over-value" compensating cap on bridge-pickup volume pots for a HB-based guitar. The larger value retains not only whatever top-end is there, as you turn down, but also mids. The result is that turning down to around 6 yields a sort of bass-cut, that makes a bridge HB sound perfectly appropriate for "chicken-pickin", even though by all rights it shouldn't be. If anyone wants to experiment, try a 1500-2200pf cap between the input lug and wiper of a volume pot. As for whether the pot value matters, when dimed, it does. I like having a glassy tone available on SC-equipped guitars, and a 1meg volume pot will do that, moreso than the 250k one typically sees on Fenders. Moreover, even if one uses a large-value tone pot, there is still an audible difference between having it in and out of circuit. We might think there is no treble loss with the Tone up full, but it's *always* bleeding just a little top-end. (This led to development and use of "no load" Tone pots, that effectively disconnect when turned up all the way.) Fender went with the 250k value because some folks found the preserved top-end sounded too brittle or harsh. Top-end harshness is also why Fender amps acquired Presence controls. These were initially intended to dial *down* the extra harmonic content coming from the power stage and output transformer. Remember, the goal in the '50s was "cleaner" sound. The goal of more sizzle is a more contemporary thing. Does this make sense?
@@markhammer643 Wow! Thanks for the robust reply! - I feel like I’m getting a (deep) private lesson - but I’ll try to keep this generally relevant… It DOES make sense (THANKS!) mostly, but I admit there is much about electrons and tone that I really don’t “get” at any fundamental level. Ironic since my dad was an EE, but never shared any of that (or much else…) with me. This is slowly dissipating with help from Chris, Josh, Rhett, yourself and many others, but the essential medium is still opaque and quasi-magical to me. Starting with electro-magnetism - one of the four fundamental forces in the universe... I remember the awe I felt as a child manipulating magnets in my hands and feeling this totally mysterious, invisible “force at a distance”. Using iron filings on paper to visualize the magnetic field lines… interrupt the field lines with wires (or guitar strings…) and induce a current… Contemplating this being the genesis of the micro-voltage signal emanating from my guitar that ultimately generates such (occasionally) beautiful sounds is believable, but not really conceivable to me in a deep way (kinda like how I approached algebra…) . I am just really glad folks figured that part out and dialed it in so I can (attempt to) play an electric guitar. Not to mention crystals… new age? No, piezo-electric transducers/pickups! I mean, really? Squeeze a crystal and generate electric current? I’ve seen the cig lighters that generate a spark when the crystal is squeezed (pretty neat!), but the sounds coming from the piezo bridge on my PRS SE Hollowbody are like from heaven! Next, despite my long association with the devices, I have NEVER had a clue how an amplifier (or a tube or transistor) works. Or why one needs caps etc. It occurred to me how exquisitely sensitive these devices are designed in their original ability to recognize and amplify the invisible and utterly miniscule radio waves we are marinating in and rendering them into beautiful (loud!) music recorded by others, beamed at us from many miles away. Thankfully, this is being addressed in a humane and reasonably accessible manner in the current Premier Guitar mag focusing on tube-amp basics. I have already studied class D (pulse-width modulation) amps a bit (I have two GK mb-200 - it can fit in my guitar case… 200 watts…) and I am beginning to get a glimmer of understanding. There is hope yet! Regarding tone as such, I am convinced many people, including myself (and most audiences) cannot really consciously perceive much of what this thread is about - obviously, the comments show there are very widely varying perceptions of the qualities of these sounds, even among the knowledgeable. This is kind of depressing in general for me, but I keep trying anyway! (just got the TC “shaker” vibrato pedal LOL!). Thanks again for the detailed, helpful explanations!
@@fredstevens799 As always, my pleasure and honour. I always enjoy assisting people to become more insightful about things they had taken for granted, allowing them to become more independent. Too many of us are forced to rely on ad copy and what passes for "explanation" by music store staff or interviews with our guitar heroes. I'm a regular listener to a midday Monday radio call-in show co-hosted by a highly experienced and reknowned master gardener who's been at it for well over 4 decades. People phone in with their plant and gardening issues. His analyses and responses are always of the sort that make you smack your forehead and mutter "Well of COURSE!". It starts to feel like "common sense" in hindsight, and really IS as simple as he depicts it. But boy oh boy, it took years of dedicated study on his part for all that knowledge to come together in a way that can *make* things become simple and common sense. Give it time. Envious of that TC Shaker pedal. The Toneprint software is a marvel.
Hi Chris, I agree, the difference was suttle. I preferred the Throbak's in the neck and middle positions. In the bridge position, the Throbak seemed weaker. I would raise it up a bit. BTW, I love the way you play.
Epiphone made the les paul traditional output adjustable by going into the wiring cavity for the tone knows at the back of the guitar and adjusting it with a miniature screwdriver ...(it is a cool thing to have as its ther because the les paul traditional are based on the late 50s early 60s bursts and goldtops )
Very instructive Video about Sound and Colours. I like the Throbacks a little bit more, they seem to be a little bit softer, but subtile with clear heights. The Dry Z are louder with more upper midrange, sounding a hint more "ordinary".
Marvelous video as always, Chris. But I have to say, all the opinions and discussions that your viewers share in the comment section give a very wholesome vibe. Guitar players all around sharing their thoughts and experiences like people would on old internet forums and stuff like that. Lovely little community you've put together here, Chris.
Over TH-cam with all of its compression and such I much prefer the sound of the original pickups. I don’t know what it’s like in the room, but I perceive much more clarity, especially in the original neck pickup. To me it seems like something closer to the LP neck position tone everyone wants. Sounds very usable, where is the throwback sounds very bass heavy
I agree somewhat with most of the below comments that the throbaks sound softer and warmer, but I think there was some sort of richer harmonic content and a bit airier and a bit better definition between different strings when strummed. But I was surprised there wasn't a bigger difference. I have a late 60s Univox LP copy with original pickups (Maxon?) which I imagine the Dry Z were trying to mimic. Those are my favorite pickups and wish I had more of them.
after listening to the different pups and trying to decide what I liked about one over the other, I came to a different feel. It is impossible to be certain since we didn't have an opportunity to mix and match, but to my ear I liked the Throback in the neck position and the Wizz in the bridge position best in isolation. So my next thing would be to put those two together to see what we get in the middle position.
Agree with many of the other comments that the originals sounded a little brighter and had a bit more clarity. That said, I’ve got ThroBak’s in my Heritage and find if I lower the pickup height a bit, they can deliver both the woodiness I also crave, and the clarity. Setting them at the same height as the original pickups might be an interesting comparison, but only an academic one IMO. Different pickups have different field strengths and the distance to the strings is a surprising big factor to the tones you get.
By far one of my top favorites. This guy is just awesome. Just killer. I really like Sean Mann and Matthew Scott as well. They pretty much play what I call pentatonic blues which is my all time favorite but wow, this guy just stuns me every Freaking time after time after time.
Gibson used Honduran mahogany until 1965. String wrapping an aluminum tailpiece and making sure the string break angle over the ABR 1 bridge is correct might help also.
The whole ethos behind Throbaks is that they have gone to great lengths to replicate the very early Gibson pickups, right down to the last detail. In a comparison like this the brighter sounding pickup will always seem clearer and more defined. However, if the sound that your looking for is similar to the early burst Gibson's then the Throbaks are as close as you're going to get. I don't work for Throbak pickups and I do not own any, I prefer to wind my own and I am happy with the sound that I get, and the added bonus is that I can make them a lot cheaper than I can buy them from a main or Boutique manufacturer. That being said, listening to the performance that Chris gave at the end, I think that most people may be hard pressed to tell the difference.
The Throbaks sound like a vintage Burst (1958-1960), which is what Chris was going for. The other pickups sounded thinner and brighter, more Fender-ish (and more like modern records) which is what most people these days are used to hearing, therefore they think it sounds better. You have to remember that sonically, it's all about frequency and where the guitar should sit within a band or within a record mix. Those old Les Pauls are so highly regarded because they take up a frequency space that's thick and warm and sits in just the right sonic place, especially for rock music. I love the Throbaks because they do exactly what they're supposed to do, which is mimic the old Gibson PAFs.
Chris Buck is one of the grooviest guitarists with a totally unique style and insane technical ability. Legend.
That Wizz pickup in the bridge sounds incredible. Much more clarity and aggressiveness.
I preferred the brighter tone of the Dry Z and Wizz.
I absolutely agree.
@@kotaibushi940 Me too.
The Throbaks sounded plain dull to me. Not woodier, just muddier
@@lynyrddeville Exactly!
Back to back, I prefer the Dry Z and the Wizz. They're more projecting. Of course I don't know what the sound is that you're looking for.
I liked the sound of your original pickups better than the throbak ones, as they sounded darker and flatter with less character and high frequency transient peaks.
Totally agree.
No way, the throbak’s sound so much better
My thoughts exactly! The Wizz in the bridge is a little honey bee! The dry Z has become a legend in its own right for a reason.
The originals sounded better to me, the Throwbacks seem slightly hotter and I didn't like the way the low frequencies interacted; but its hard to tell with the YT audio compression.
I agree! The original pickups had more clarity and chime. The throbaks sounded like the strings had a hair tie back on the strings choking the top end.
Dry Z was wizzing all over the competition.
Usually these type of things delve into “cork sniffer” territory but, as I’m folding laundry and have nothing better to do than shut up and listen, after a number of the “both pickup” examples went by I was semi-shocked at the realization that YES the Throbak critters DID complement each other and not “compete” with one another.
I’m almost in the same situation as yourself as I have an Edwards example with the Page wiring setup. I’m quite happy with the pickups but, I’m in need of a neck reset and want to replace the bridge, thumbscrews and tailpiece with more period correct components (brass thumbscrews etc)
As always, I show up for the “check up from the neck up” for the phrasing reminders. You have a lovely sense of implying breathing, which of course most guitarists are guilty of the “never ending lung capacity” phenomenon.
Thanks for the inspiration from Tennessee.
Dude… the Dry Z and Wizz combo sound SIGNIFICANTLY better. Like, it’s extremely apparent to me, at least via this TH-cam video. It’s kind of night and day, to be honest. The Throbacks are less dynamic and have less range, to my ears at least.
Agreed.
As far as the sound coming off the TH-cam video is concerned - I totally agree with you. The Throbacks sound woolly and uninspiring to my ears. Maybe it sounded different in the room??
You are 100% spot on mate!.
I'd THRO them bak!
Agreed! 👍🏼
For my taste, to be brutally honest, the Throbacks sounded muddy compared to the old ones, which had more bite & clarity to me. Having said that, they all sounded good, especially in your hands Chris.
I agree, but there is nothing brutal about it. The things are as they are, not as we'd like them to be.
I perceived the same thing. “Preferred” tone is something very subjective and I can see why Chris would like the more “woodsy” character of the Throbacks, but for my ears, the best tones I heard were coming out of the Wizz. Regardless, Mr. Buck can make a broom handle with a pair of magnets and some chicken wire sound amazing.
Very good description of the Throbacks I agree with muddy.
I agree with John, in particular in the neck with overdrive. The tone comes 99% from the player.
100% agree.
I have to say- - while they are both very good - to me I thought the dry-z / whiz setup was a bit better- especially if clarity was what you are after.
agree
The amount of expression this guy can achieve with his
bends and vibrato is just insane!
Exactly what I was thinking! One of the craziest and most expressive players I’ve seen. I can only hope some of it rubs off onto me! Everything he does sounds inspired. And to me that’s where it’s at
Yep christ does a lot of bending where I don't bend so a semi tone I'm going for it
I've been down this road with many early 80's Japanese copy guitars. For the hardware go with the Faber metric ABR-1 bridge w/ the nickel plated brass thumbwheels and the Faber aluminum tailpiece. But, you may not actually need to change your tailpiece if it is already aluminum. If the tailpiece weighs around 25-32 grams & isn't magnetic then you are good to leave it in place. You also need to put a magnet to your tailpiece bushings and studs to make sure they are steel and not zinc or brass. If they are not steel they won't be magnetic & you should definitely change them out for more accurate Faber steel bushings/studs. Another thing that you may or may not want to get into is the bridge posts. Most likely what you have in the guitar are steel, but the originals used nickel plated brass. There are no metric sized brass posts available so you can either plug the holes and retap for imperial sized brass posts or you can buy a metric plain brass rod with the correct threads and cut your own. I did the latter. The post change is extremely subtle though and might not be worth getting into unless you just enjoy tinkering. I've gone back and forth in a few guitars between steel and brass and overall preferred brass BUT it's not a big enough difference to warrant the effort for most people.
Nobody makes dead accurate copies of the vintage hardware these days. Faber is the closest but it's still a different ratio of metals and sizes compared to the originals. 8 Bomb Custom is working on recreating the original hardware composition but they aren't going to be done anytime soon. Also, those might not end up being available in metric sizes. Good luck man. In the end, you probably can make some subtle improvements but don't expect it to fully match an original.
Damn... I thought I was a guitar nerd, but you got me beat!!!!!
@@eddiejr540 lol yeah...it's pretty bad
Have you seen this vid of the guy doing this to his les Paul’s…his guitars sound like real bursts xD
@@neve4020 The SD Pickups videos? The changes definitely make an improvement. I've done these mods to 4 high end Japanese replicas from the lawsuit era. They all sound great especially with ReWind Pickups or Dry Z's but none of them compare to my '53 Goldtop. A good original is an extra 5-10% that you just can't get elsewhere.
Nickel-plated brass-- this is a thing with Strats, too, that few people talk about. True vintage Kluson tuners have nickel-plated brass posts and brass internals, and this changes the tone slightly. These are available for Gibsons and Fenders from Montreaux Japan, and the Gotoh 510 unstaggered Klusons have brass posts (but not the washer inside). Also-- and not that it matters much unless you are a total geek-- unlike virtually all modern ones, the Strat jackplate on vintage instruments is chromed brass and not steel, which you can check with a magnet.
Any love for that fuzzy tone in the intro jam? Best crunch tone I've heard in a while.
No high end on the Throbaks. Didn't sound as good on the clean tones but had a nice tone on the overdrive. The Wizz was super bright but cut through the mix in a way the others didn't. The Dry Z sounded good playing a clean tone or overdriven. Always enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work.
Every week, just the intros alone blow me away. The melody, technique, textures, sonics and emotion are superb. I could listen to Chris all day. America may have Vai, Satch, Bonamassa and Mayer but we in the UK however have the humble and soulful Buck and that’s just fine with me 😊 Keep up the great work Chris!
I agree, the Throbaks sound darker, muddier, less defined than the Wizz/Dry Z combination, more so than with the 300k pots in my opinion. Seem to have gone backwards with this sorry Chris.
Totally agree!
Hi Chris - love the guitar playing, as always
But....
Just looking at those videos comparing the pickup sets. the first thing you probably need to do is measure the string height about the pickups, before you make the swap, and then set the replacement pickups at the same height
You have the throbak neck pickup (at least) a lot closer to the strings
Look at the clips around about 8mins 50 in . The neck pickup of the original set is almost flush with the pickup surround, the throbak is a couple of mm up from that
So perhaps one of the first changes you might have made is - rather than replace the pickups - set the heights of the pickups?
Just a thought.....
Chris is the best, most expressive guitarist I have heard in a long, long time.
I agree that having both the wizz and the dry z do have a sound of fighting each other, but overall i preferred the dry z to the throbaks and would try getting a second dry z if they arent too expensive
The Throbaks are significantly softer. I always heard the early Les Paul sound described as a Tele on steroids. Not how I hear the Throbaks.
That dry Z to my ears was the best by far, I'd be looking for a bridge pickup to complement it if it was my guitar.
To my old ears - the Throbaks had a rather large mid-range hump with a bit of thickness compared to the DryZ and Wizz.
Your solos are just so fucking brilliant! I can't get enough of them.
Keep it clean.
Can't wait to see the difference in changing the bridge and tailpiece. I've upgraded the pots and pickups in 2 of my Les Paul's that made incremental improvements. Not sure if the slight improvement in tone was worth the $$$.
At the risk of whacking a hornet’s nest, before swapping pickups, a cheaper and very effective way to fine tune pickups is with the volume/tone pots. Try different ones (generally 500k are used for humbuckers but if you want more or less treble you can use different ratings.) Also, 50s wiring will make a huge difference if you’re trying to get a more classic tone. People tend to go straight for a pickup swap but it isn’t always necessary. Plus its much cheaper to change pots and wiring.
The mystique of the fine details. I have found that with recording music, you can attain very interesting and good results from the most surprising sources, using cheap instruments very well for instance you don't always get a guaranteed better result from expense. I like the Wizz PU's
Good video!The 500K audio taper pots are the secret sauce that most people don't know about.All the '57s were 5000 turns on each coil,which was one of standards had to have to apply for the patent.From '57 to '60 the coils were wound by machines using timers.When the timer went off,they finished the coil.This is why all these pickups sound slightly different!Throbacks are a good choice they are put together in the same way.
The Throbaks make it sound like you are playing with really old strings.
Wait a minute...I've heard that opening solo before
So interesting each pickup has its own distinctive sound. The Z’s have a great clarity, but the Throwbaks have a gritty broad frequency sound with more overtones that are so great! If you’re still looking for more choices, try the Cream T Whiskerbucker pickups; totally incredible.
Love watching the intros. Lots of technique tips there. Excellent hybrid pick technique!
Been wanting this for a while now. Thank you, Chris! Cheers to the new Cardinal Black EP! 🎊
I just bought a 68 reissue yesterday and you inspired me to go the p90 route! Thanks!
Had so many 80's guitars. At the end of the day I found the Tim shaws to be closest to a PAF a lot more so than my DRY Z's and Dry 82s but I found so much depends on the body wood. It has to be old light dry Honduran IMO. It has a clarinet like mid range that no other wood has especially African hog.
Chris, to my ears it seemed that you are on to a winner with the original pickups - the new ones made some difference, but I preferred the old ones. The bridge and neck sounds contrast more with each other in the old set, but in a good way I think.
I never know which hand to look at when watching Chris play! One is as fascinating as the other! Serious talent!!
To add to my earlier comment about pickups heights, Gibson recommend pressing the string down at the last fret, and then setting the distance from the string to the pickup
of 3/32 inch between neck pickup and strings and 1/16 inch between bridge pickup and strings
I think Guitarist Magazine, for whom you were asked to play those original '59 bursts use those measurements as a "standard", too
... and Gibson add that those are a good base to start your experiments at...
Thanks, Chris. I'm a huge fan and always enjoy your comparisons. Impeccably fair. There are always so many variables, even when changing out only one component at a time. I asked Heritage to make a Les Paul style and put in ThroBak KZ115 pickups. It sounds great but probably because it went straight to a brilliant tech who set it up according to his decades of experience. So I guess this is a shout out to great techs, who are truly indispensable. Cheers, Chris.
Try some Kinman 59's. Custom maker in Australia. Tim Pierce demonstrates a set on one of his videos about pickups.
I agree with BLD Lightpainting. I was amazed how much like an acoustic the originals sounded in the middle postion. An electric being able to emulate the sound of an acoustic makes a guitar very versatile. That's why my main guitar is a Music Man JP15 with the Fishman transducer pickups. The Dimarzio pickups in the JP15 can not do what the pickups in Chris's Greco can. The Z and Wizz were more open and articulate. The Throbacks had more mids (or less highs) and had that "blanket over the speaker cabinet" sound. For me that was a downgrade and actaully made me go search Reverb for a set of Dry Zs. I'm actually quite shocked.
Oh, BTW, amazing playing as always, Chris.
This is the kind of experiment I wanted to see for a while as I always get confused with so many pickups out there, yes, my ears are not so trained but videos like this educates me, so thank you Chris. I miss my Les Paul Special but now I’m getting into guitar again with a nice Revstar.
As usual your playing is INCREDIBLE. I preferred your old pups because I like a brighter tone. But very close!
I heard the same thing as you Chris. They sound “woodier” or more “dry” and “papery” (that’s what I call the P90 quality in the mids) however, the top end is rolled off somewhat on the TBs compared to the previous pickups. Maybe you can add it back in the amp.
Agreed!!!!
It's a war of inches but that Wizz bridge pickup seems more like it to me.
The bridge, saddle shape, aluminum tailpiece and the POSTS will make an insane difference towards the burst sound. You need to look into a four uncles bridge 1st choice, or a faber bridge 2nd choice.
you no it.
I was very surprised that the Throbaks didn’t sound brighter. They also seemed slightly quieter, but did have a character that to my ears seemed quite authentic and desirable. I put Pete Thorn, Suhr Thornbucker PAF’s in my 2017 LP Standard with a 21 Tone Jimmy Page wiring kit from Jonesy Blues and it’s sounds incredible!
Closest tone I’ve heard to an original Paul from the 50’s-60’s era. Great playing as usual and nice thorough comparison. Thanks Chris.
I would also recommend the Suhr Thornbuckers. I put them in my 1983 Burny Les Paul, and they sound marvelous.
Hiya Chriss I have a 58 replical Gibson Lp, I have the 50s wiring which puts the tone pots after the volume in the signal and i fitted paper in oil capacitors 0015mf neck and 022mf bridge, transformed the guitar it now blooms like it should. Good luck Ian
You can definitely hear that the p'ups that were in the guitar aren't a matched set, as Chris said. However, to my ear at least the guitar had much more character and clarity before the Throbaks were added. It sounds more generic now. Incredible playing, as always.
Through the entirety of the pickup comparison, I was thinking exactly what you said about there being a definite woody texture to the sound. I completely agree with your summary.
Also Faber makes conversion bridges that sound great and really close to vintage. Warm and clear with plenty of sustain and vibration. Also worth a consideration in my opinion.
I recently purchased a 2004 Epiphone 56 gold top with P90 pickups. This guitar is impressive, killer tone. I won't change a thing on this guitar.
Love whatever you were playing, in the intro.
It's the DryZ and Wizz for me. The Throbaks would have me messing with the amp for a bit more clarity. Some things in life need no messing with at all. Your playing is so stellar and intoxicating that any slight change in tone is not noticed. (We're both watching and listening.) And while we're at it ... someone needs to get on Yamaha's ass, I (need) a gold top revstar with p90's. Your guitar needs to be available to all.
The comparison of these pickups was informative and gives options to upgrading pickups in an Epi or Gibson Les Paul and definately a noticeable change in to tonality. Thanks for sharing!
What a intro man, sounds wonderful, i really love it
The Dry Zs, hands down, were the best replication of the original PAF tone (and apparently are priced accordingly), but the combination of the Dry Z and the Wizz was interesting, because the Wizz has a lot more “bite” to it 🙂.
Sounded to my ears that the amp needed re setting to suit the thro backs
I loved the Trobacks . Thanks for your superb playing.
I tried those new $1000 Gibson '59 pickup and won't line... they are the best sounding "new" Gibson pickups I've ever heard.
I am still blown away with how good the Mojotone 59 Clones PAF’s sound. I have the Hot bridge set in my 60th Anniversary R9. Absolutely killed the stock Custombuckers. They’re also relatively inexpensive compared to the boutique brands out there.
I love mine too! Im shocked at how they fly under the radar. No shootouts on youtube either. Im guessing they’d compete well with any other PAF replicas.
The ThroBacks are well balanced individually and as a pair. While smoother and not as forward/aggressive sounding as the Dry Z and Wizz, I appreciate the natural response and refined clarity of the ThroBaks.
Ive changed out the tailpiece anchors, studs, bridge posts and bridge on both of my Greco super Reals to vintage correct materials and lengths. I have to say it made a bigger difference than the myriad of pickup swaps I’ve done in both guitars.
It took some surgery, but I found it well worth it.
another great thing to do is the 50s wiring and instead of using .22 caps go to .15 . It give you much greater sweep on the neck pup and when using both pups its easier to balance them.
The Throbacks did sound darker, but we all have to know that the AMP settings also have a say in what the sound comes out as well as the tone and volume controls on the guitar are set at.
Plus the resonance of the guitar itself. Putting in time with the overall setup with tweaks here and there will bring out the true nature of the guitar and pickups.
Another great Chris Buck video. He is an amazing player. I have been a subscriber for the past year and he has taught me a lot. That Granger Burst Les Paul is like Stradivarius
Great video. 3 great sounds. At the end of the day, I’m so glad I put MoJo tone 59’ Clone pickups with the Mojo Tone wiring harness with bumblebee caps.
I put Monty's paf replicas in my Les Paul along with a 50s wiring harness from 920d custom and it went from being my least favorite guitar to one of my favorites!
CB is such an unbelieveable guitarplayer. Everytime I listen, I am speachless....
The Greco is the sleeper... I have a 1980 as well and it's mind blowingly amazing. I love the dry z. The 1980 Tokai's are also absolute tone beasts, cheaper that the Super Real's and lovely in their own right, highly recommend. 1980 is a phenomenal year for Tokai and Greco.
Can you tell me what your 1200 weighs? Mine is beautiful but weighs 10lb-11oz 😢
@@allphase my 1800 is just over 9 pounds, the wood is different from the 1200 from what I have read.
Edit from my past reply: My beautiful 1980 Greco EGF 1200 weighs 10lb -3ounces
@@thefrankly Right on @Frankly!
I’m looking to purchase an 1800! Please remember me if you know where I can get one or if you want or need to sell?
I agree, the Throbacks sound more woody in that they appear to allow the natural resonance of the wood/guitar to shine through. I prefer the Throbacks albeit the original pups do sound brighter.
Yep--I come to Chris's channel to learn from the master just how important the right hand really is, and he has great content too!
Great video! From the sound of it, I'd bet you have pot metal bridge saddles. Try a bridge with brass saddles like the vintage ABR-1 has. It will add that bit of sparkle on the top that I'll bet you are looking for. Swapping out the Nashville bridge with pot metal saddles for a Kluson with brass saddles made a noticeable difference on my Les Paul. Kluson is making great bridges and tailpieces now. They probably have one that fits your guitar.
I didn't read all the responses but like many others I also felt the dynamic of the older setup was better... but it's your guitar. You noted the differences, and I agree were "subtle" and I believe "woody" was an adjective... I might say mellow. If you feel you're moving in the right direction for the sound you heard and want to replicate than please keep going. Good luck with the bridge et al mods. Love your playing BTW
I remember that from the Rickenbacker video. Love it on both the Les Paul and the Rick
Great video. I changed the hardware on a couple of Gibson USA standards from the early 2000s to Faber aged nickel parts to look more vintage and was surprised by the improvement in tone. Much brighter, livelier and open sounding. More like vintage LP tones than darker 90s LP tones. They look great too.
Having been down the rabbit hole of chasing vintage Les Paul tone, and achieving it…
There are several factors at play. Really, a tight neck joint, good glues, the right wood type and thin nitro is going to get you in the zone. Era correct woods are a plus but not necessary.
The big factors:
Saddles - Vintage ABR bridges had massive saddles and they DO make a difference. There are several companies making vintage style saddles for modern ABR bridges.
Pickups - unpotted, machine-wound, thin nickel covers. Basically any good PAF clones, can try different winds to taste. A4 mags seem to be the “it” magnet in modern pickups.
Hardware - Brass posts for the ABR, thin brass thumbwheels, aluminum stoptail and steel studs. Tuners matter, but not much.
The Scale Length - this is HUGE and completely overlooked by Gibson.
Luthiers used the Rule of 18 to calculate fret placement. Every fret is 1/18 the distance of the remaining scale length, and every fret location was calculated from the prior fret location. This could result in small imperfections and is laborious. Bridge placement was determined AFTER frets were placed. Key point: the scale length and bridge location on vintage Gibsons varies, but the scale is slightly SHORTER than modern LP’s and reissues. This translates to lower string tension, and a lower resonant frequency. In my opinion THIS is the single biggest factor affecting the tone.
Great playing as always.
Only Richie Kotzen could play it like this without a pick…. Damn man!! Awesome beautiful phrasing and touch!!! Makes us all want to practice more!! Nice work young man!!
I really do believe that the electronics were what mattered then. It wasn't tone wood. Nothing was consistent back then. Some of the pickups were over or under wound. The wiring, pots and switches had more or less resistance. This all played a part in that Holy Grail sound. Did they use better or lesser quality parts? I love the Les Paul guitar. It has been my favorite for over 30 years.
I take the view that everything we've heard about the tonal advantages to using higher-resistance volume pots for humbuckers is true... *provided one always leaves the volume up full* . Once one starts frittering around with volume levels every ohm of pot resistance we take away, by turning down, is *added* to the impedance of the pickup/s, and loads the pickup down. This only-at-max-volume effect/advantage strikes me as precisely why Fender began using compensating caps on the volume pot, so that the nice treble preservation that occurred at full volume would be mostly preserved as one turned down.
Hi Mark - would a "treble-bleed" network (resistor & cap in parallel) across the vol pots do the same in a LP as the Fender? Assuming appropriate values... besides, if the vol pot is maxed (ie minimum to none resistance) what difference does the rated value of the pot make anyway? TIA
@@fredstevens799 Hi Fred - Yes and no. The treble bleed conserves top end as one turns the volume down and loads down the pickups. But what sort of top end does one start out with that merits conserving? HBs tend to have less of it.
Maxing the volume pot provides least loading of the pickups, especially when used with longer cables. Think of the volume pot and cable capacitance as functioning like a lowpass filter. At max volume-pot setting, the "rolloff" of series-load+cable-capacitance is high enough that we normally don't hear it. As the cable-capacitance increases (longer cable or poorer-quality cable) and/or as the series load increases, that rolloff moves downward in frequency. We tend to notice it less with humbuckers than with single-coils because the latter start out with so much more top-end. As he saying goes: you can't miss what you never had.
For those unfamiliar with the effects of cable capacitance, I always recommend the following experiment. Take the longest cables you have. If you have any true-bypass pedals, heck, connect a few in series, such that you're playing through a VERY long cable. Plug your guitar into the amp through that and strum. Now, take the shortest cable you have, that lets you physically accomplish this (e.g., a 6" patch cable), and plug your guitar straight into the amp through that. If one's hearing is intact, the difference should be quite audible. And that's with all guitar controls set to max. Naturally, it will be far more audible with SC pickups than with HBs.
I've used an "over-value" compensating cap on bridge-pickup volume pots for a HB-based guitar. The larger value retains not only whatever top-end is there, as you turn down, but also mids. The result is that turning down to around 6 yields a sort of bass-cut, that makes a bridge HB sound perfectly appropriate for "chicken-pickin", even though by all rights it shouldn't be. If anyone wants to experiment, try a 1500-2200pf cap between the input lug and wiper of a volume pot.
As for whether the pot value matters, when dimed, it does. I like having a glassy tone available on SC-equipped guitars, and a 1meg volume pot will do that, moreso than the 250k one typically sees on Fenders. Moreover, even if one uses a large-value tone pot, there is still an audible difference between having it in and out of circuit. We might think there is no treble loss with the Tone up full, but it's *always* bleeding just a little top-end. (This led to development and use of "no load" Tone pots, that effectively disconnect when turned up all the way.) Fender went with the 250k value because some folks found the preserved top-end sounded too brittle or harsh. Top-end harshness is also why Fender amps acquired Presence controls. These were initially intended to dial *down* the extra harmonic content coming from the power stage and output transformer. Remember, the goal in the '50s was "cleaner" sound. The goal of more sizzle is a more contemporary thing.
Does this make sense?
@@markhammer643 Wow! Thanks for the robust reply! - I feel like I’m getting a (deep) private lesson - but I’ll try to keep this generally relevant…
It DOES make sense (THANKS!) mostly, but I admit there is much about electrons and tone that I really don’t “get” at any fundamental level. Ironic since my dad was an EE, but never shared any of that (or much else…) with me. This is slowly dissipating with help from Chris, Josh, Rhett, yourself and many others, but the essential medium is still opaque and quasi-magical to me.
Starting with electro-magnetism - one of the four fundamental forces in the universe... I remember the awe I felt as a child manipulating magnets in my hands and feeling this totally mysterious, invisible “force at a distance”. Using iron filings on paper to visualize the magnetic field lines… interrupt the field lines with wires (or guitar strings…) and induce a current… Contemplating this being the genesis of the micro-voltage signal emanating from my guitar that ultimately generates such (occasionally) beautiful sounds is believable, but not really conceivable to me in a deep way (kinda like how I approached algebra…) . I am just really glad folks figured that part out and dialed it in so I can (attempt to) play an electric guitar. Not to mention crystals… new age? No, piezo-electric transducers/pickups! I mean, really? Squeeze a crystal and generate electric current? I’ve seen the cig lighters that generate a spark when the crystal is squeezed (pretty neat!), but the sounds coming from the piezo bridge on my PRS SE Hollowbody are like from heaven!
Next, despite my long association with the devices, I have NEVER had a clue how an amplifier (or a tube or transistor) works. Or why one needs caps etc. It occurred to me how exquisitely sensitive these devices are designed in their original ability to recognize and amplify the invisible and utterly miniscule radio waves we are marinating in and rendering them into beautiful (loud!) music recorded by others, beamed at us from many miles away. Thankfully, this is being addressed in a humane and reasonably accessible manner in the current Premier Guitar mag focusing on tube-amp basics. I have already studied class D (pulse-width modulation) amps a bit (I have two GK mb-200 - it can fit in my guitar case… 200 watts…) and I am beginning to get a glimmer of understanding. There is hope yet!
Regarding tone as such, I am convinced many people, including myself (and most audiences) cannot really consciously perceive much of what this thread is about - obviously, the comments show there are very widely varying perceptions of the qualities of these sounds, even among the knowledgeable. This is kind of depressing in general for me, but I keep trying anyway! (just got the TC “shaker” vibrato pedal LOL!). Thanks again for the detailed, helpful explanations!
@@fredstevens799 As always, my pleasure and honour. I always enjoy assisting people to become more insightful about things they had taken for granted, allowing them to become more independent. Too many of us are forced to rely on ad copy and what passes for "explanation" by music store staff or interviews with our guitar heroes.
I'm a regular listener to a midday Monday radio call-in show co-hosted by a highly experienced and reknowned master gardener who's been at it for well over 4 decades. People phone in with their plant and gardening issues. His analyses and responses are always of the sort that make you smack your forehead and mutter "Well of COURSE!". It starts to feel like "common sense" in hindsight, and really IS as simple as he depicts it. But boy oh boy, it took years of dedicated study on his part for all that knowledge to come together in a way that can *make* things become simple and common sense. Give it time.
Envious of that TC Shaker pedal. The Toneprint software is a marvel.
I am getting excited to hear how you are digging the Pro Reverb as your main amp!
What amp is Chris’s playing through?
Hi Chris,
I agree, the difference was suttle. I preferred the Throbak's in the neck and middle positions. In the bridge position, the Throbak seemed weaker. I would raise it up a bit. BTW, I love the way you play.
Epiphone made the les paul traditional output adjustable by going into the wiring cavity for the tone knows at the back of the guitar and adjusting it with a miniature screwdriver ...(it is a cool thing to have as its ther because the les paul traditional are based on the late 50s early 60s bursts and goldtops )
Beautiful phrasing, and the tone is reminiscent of my having blasted tunes despite hangovers...
I spec’d ALL my hardware and electronics. My guitar is quite bright, big and sounds exactly as I wanted it to be. Very happy with the results.
Very instructive Video about Sound and Colours.
I like the Throbacks a little bit more, they seem to be a little bit softer, but subtile with clear heights.
The Dry Z are louder with more upper midrange, sounding a hint more "ordinary".
What a lovely being this guy is 🙏
Marvelous video as always, Chris. But I have to say, all the opinions and discussions that your viewers share in the comment section give a very wholesome vibe. Guitar players all around sharing their thoughts and experiences like people would on old internet forums and stuff like that. Lovely little community you've put together here, Chris.
please make a video where you talk about the gear you started with and all the changes you made to your rig to end up with the setup you use today.
Over TH-cam with all of its compression and such I much prefer the sound of the original pickups. I don’t know what it’s like in the room, but I perceive much more clarity, especially in the original neck pickup. To me it seems like something closer to the LP neck position tone everyone wants. Sounds very usable, where is the throwback sounds very bass heavy
I agree somewhat with most of the below comments that the throbaks sound softer and warmer, but I think there was some sort of richer harmonic content and a bit airier and a bit better definition between different strings when strummed. But I was surprised there wasn't a bigger difference. I have a late 60s Univox LP copy with original pickups (Maxon?) which I imagine the Dry Z were trying to mimic. Those are my favorite pickups and wish I had more of them.
after listening to the different pups and trying to decide what I liked about one over the other, I came to a different feel. It is impossible to be certain since we didn't have an opportunity to mix and match, but to my ear I liked the Throback in the neck position and the Wizz in the bridge position best in isolation. So my next thing would be to put those two together to see what we get in the middle position.
Throbaks sound darker and muddier, i won't be buying a set after this comparison : (
Agreed. One thing a humbucker doesn’t need to be is darker.
Took the words off my keyboard.
If you follow Duane Flowers and the absurd les paul fetish club, you'll know that the wizz pickups are the most faithful you can buy.
I left them alone after the contention that brass pot covers have a warmer tone than normal ones!
Throbak bridge sounded almost like dead strings.
Greco/Maxon DRY Z for the win
Agree with many of the other comments that the originals sounded a little brighter and had a bit more clarity. That said, I’ve got ThroBak’s in my Heritage and find if I lower the pickup height a bit, they can deliver both the woodiness I also crave, and the clarity. Setting them at the same height as the original pickups might be an interesting comparison, but only an academic one IMO. Different pickups have different field strengths and the distance to the strings is a surprising big factor to the tones you get.
By far one of my top favorites. This guy is just awesome. Just killer. I really like Sean Mann and Matthew Scott as well. They pretty much play what I call pentatonic blues which is my all time favorite but wow, this guy just stuns me every Freaking time after time after time.
Gibson used Honduran mahogany until 1965. String wrapping an aluminum tailpiece and making sure the string break angle over the ABR 1 bridge is correct might help also.
The original pickups sound better to my ears. A bit more clarity.
The whole ethos behind Throbaks is that they have gone to great lengths to replicate the very early Gibson pickups, right down to the last detail. In a comparison like this the brighter sounding pickup will always seem clearer and more defined. However, if the sound that your looking for is similar to the early burst Gibson's then the Throbaks are as close as you're going to get. I don't work for Throbak pickups and I do not own any, I prefer to wind my own and I am happy with the sound that I get, and the added bonus is that I can make them a lot cheaper than I can buy them from a main or Boutique manufacturer. That being said, listening to the performance that Chris gave at the end, I think that most people may be hard pressed to tell the difference.
The Throbaks sounded darker. Personally preferred the Dry Z and Wiz
The Throbaks sound like a vintage Burst (1958-1960), which is what Chris was going for. The other pickups sounded thinner and brighter, more Fender-ish (and more like modern records) which is what most people these days are used to hearing, therefore they think it sounds better. You have to remember that sonically, it's all about frequency and where the guitar should sit within a band or within a record mix. Those old Les Pauls are so highly regarded because they take up a frequency space that's thick and warm and sits in just the right sonic place, especially for rock music. I love the Throbaks because they do exactly what they're supposed to do, which is mimic the old Gibson PAFs.
Very nice. I just picked up a 1980 Tokai LS-80 so I really appreciate the video. Great player playing a great guitar. Cheers!